Civilizations at the End of Time: Black Hole Farming
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- In this video we jump trillions of years into the future to examine the concept of civilizations living in a dark, post-stellar Universe, where we encounter some surprising possibilities about just how abundant and robust life might be in a seemingly dark and dead Universe.
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Blandford-Znajek mechanism versus Penrose process by S. S. Komissarov (2008):
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"You'd have to be a determined war-monger to fly a billion years to do war with someone."
Imperium of Man dislikes this post! :D
In the future they won't have war mongering Republicans. People will be genetically engineered and the inferior traits removed. Trashy Republicans will be no more.
@@davidbrown8303 Hell yeah, so will be the trashy liberals! FOR THE EMPEROR!
@@davidbrown8303 prove your statement. And in the Future there will be all kind of ideologies, Supremacist Fascist.
@@davidbrown8303 warmongering doesn't need a political party. Democrats are just as warmongering as Republicans. To say otherwise is either ignorant or dishonest. Do you even have any idea just how jaw droppingly ignorant that statement was?
@ Democrats were president when we got into WW1, WW2, Korea, and Vietnam.
You make the end of the universe sound a lot more hopeful.
This was way too hopeful, 2020 is fucked.
@@nathanielmathews2617 ikr
If a civilization running with such power is around..then they with such power can just flick there fingers an restart the big bang.The end is just the beginning.
@@nathanielmathews2617 yûy
@@nathanielmathews2617 2021 is even worse!
I find the extreme efficiency somewhat amusing because of all the things they could run off. Like one person who accidentally teleported into the far future could have their corpse power a civilization for uncountable eons.
Vakus Drake Unconfortably awkward uncountable eons lol
Four-hundredth coming of Christ? Awesome! Get him! We can use his body mass to fuel humanity until he reappears again.
@@DoubleBob Christ would probably destroy the human race at that point
@@DoubleBob once a Savior - always The Savior
Very interesting. I don't want to put words into your mouth, but you really seem like an optimist to me. You take pains to note that most of the problems we are likely to encounter as the universe runs it course should not be taken as hard and fast rules because we are a part of the universe too, and have the ability to alter its natural course.
Nihilism, existentialism, and, for lack of a better word, defeatism seem to be the prevailing opinions of most people I encounter who contemplate these subjects.
I have to say that its refreshing to hear a take that is a bit of a sunnier disposition. Especially from somebody who has obviously put a great deal of thought and effort to come to these conclusions. Thanks for doing what you do.
You're welcome Luke, and yeah I try to approach these topics form the standpoint of realistic optimism, showing how we might either get around a problem or manage to keep going even if we can't.
"sunnier"
@@lucaslevinsky8802 black-holier.
If we are in a simulation near the end of the universe orbiting a decaying black hole, why would we decide to design a simulated universe in which we would be subjected to the same fate? I'd imagine that a species that wants to feel safe and secure in it's final umptillion years before extinction would rather simulate a universe with less impending doom.
what is the purpose of simulation but to find an answer and a solution? Perhaps they're hoping to simulate the universe over again, to come up with a way to prevent their extinction! Or, at the very least, make it turtles all the way down. :P
or they want to give us the same problems, and give us more time to try to think of ways to solve the problem. IF you give people however many thousands of years, things may turn out differently, maybe in the simulation, some kind of solution is made, and then that solution is implemented into the future.
I'm only like 2 minutes in the video right now, so if he has already covered these sorry!
If that was the case, then why erase memory of the real universe. Wouldn't it be more efficient to simulate just the minds so they can come up with a solution rather than simulating an entire universe for the minds to run around in?
maxwell simon I don't quite know to be honest. We could also argue about the ethics of putting people into simulations. In the end I personally don't think we are in one, I saw that one way to prove this (from one of Vsauce's videos) is to look at irrational numbers such as Pi or the square root of 2.
In any case, maybe there have been other simulations which showed that the universe didn't in fact end, however horrible things happened because of it. Like in the movie the Matrix, There was an early version where the matrix was designed to be a utopia, where everyone was happy, however the complete opposite happened, and things descended into chaos.
I guess we shouldn't question the ideas of our future human overlords or whatever, if they want a universe like this let 'em have it.
might be running multiple simulations simultaneously, hundreds or even thousands at once. in that case, it would be like an experiment to see how a diversified set of programs, from a multitude of different simulations placed in varied environments and circumstance, go about solving the same problems from start to finish. it would inevitably reveal flaws or overlooked details in previous understandings of the universe, and thus produce a huge range of differing results to be observed and evaluated. seems like a pretty efficient way of gathering information that was perhaps overlooked by they themselves.
also, at that step of evolved sentient life perhaps it's a bit boring to have such knowledge and power. starting all over again without a handicap or cheat codes (their evolved minds) IS the ultimate game of strategy after all.
A seemingly cold and dead universe, harboring a eternity of nigh-infinite simulated hypersentient beings..... Well my mind is blown.
Interestingly, when you put it that way, it's kind of like an idea I had a long time ago...but on a much, much smaller scale. Basically this planet-colonising level civilization had digital people "living" in their computers as servants, and long, long after the biologicals died out and everything on their planets SEEMED dead...if you listened really carefully...you could still hear a slight hum from their old machines. Still running. Still full of a whole other civilization. On a dark, cold world of rust and dust--a whole civilzation. And unless you knew how to look for it, you'd never know.
(until the power runs out, but I think they were using something really long-lived. I forget what.)
Nowhere near the SCALE of the black hole civilizations discussed in this video, but...similar feel? Heh.
Robin Chesterfield That is a very relatable way to describe the problem of looking for "life" elsewhere. We really don't know what to look for.
I foresee it going horribly wrong, such as fighting over memory and processing resources--technically brains eating brains, but it's one big brain, with one group of neurons trying to assimilate neighboring neurons. Eventually you'd be left with one unimaginably ancient and intelligent madman with a god complex.
"Cave Johnson here. And only me. I was freeing up the memory space containing all of mankind's literary accomplishments to make room for new _My Little Pony_ fanfiction, when I came across the story of Marduk. Apparently, he fought all the other gods until he was the only one remaining. He then went on to create mankind. Kind of counterproductive in hindsight, considering that's what happened this go-round. I'm inviting destruction if I start simulating more assholes to fight over resources. But... would _ponies_ go the same path? Be right back." *BEEP* "Discord here..."
Cosmology is a hell of a drug, dude.
Reported for controversial topics...?
Seriously though, this is one of the best productions I have seen on youtube
Probably some extremely religious person that gets offended by science
There are some SJWs who claim that the term "Black Hole" is racist. No joke.
I think it is those people outside of our simulation did it! They try to ruin our little cozy dream!
+raven lord "African American Hole" sounds like a racial insult though.
Bill Lowery Probably some shitty SJW bots who instantly report and dislike videos when the words 'black' and 'farming' are in the title.
This dude... now this is a cool dude
This might be your best video yet. Very profound and information-dense. You have a brilliant mind!
Thanks!
I was thinking the same thing. This is definitely one of my favorites.
Haven't finished yet but are you saying we could theoretically go on forever?
*Universe dies* Hey let's become type 4!
I think that's what happens after the type 3, they leave the universe for some other whatever existence; realizing this one is barely existing, that existence is much greater than this universe. Just like we would find a 2 spacial dimensional universe rather prohibitive; analogy to the nomad realizing farming and establishing settlements.
I couldn't agree more. It's as if there is some inner voice and hard-wired drive that pushes life in that direction.
Could we not just keep running a planet even with out any sun. just use false lighting and grow stuff for energy. do this is realy huge multi layer farms. and you should have enogh emergy, while also taking wind and watter into this. and by that time we should with ease be able to clean all the water. and so on.
the only thing that can ruin this is another planet comming. since we would proberly have anogh defences for astrioids and comets. most of the tecnoligy we already have.
The problem is without a star, our world would be too cold to live on, and if we wanted to keep the earth warm enough, we would have to use so much energy and money to not only build giant heaters, but fuel them.
Mark Bjering The earths core will still eventually cool and the earth stop rotating because of it. Earth thereby loses its magnetic field. With no sun and no atmosphere the earths surface would cool. Everything would die, but being able to just keep the planet going wldve been awsome.
You are by far my favorite channel on RUclips. It's crazy how much stuff is blown over by everyone else, I skip everyone else's video on the topics you made cause I heard everything they had to say before. But you my friend explain in such great deal it's like I'm talking to an AI that knows the answers to questions I haven't even thought to ask. Thank you so much and keep making content, you are doing an amazing job informing the world.
Chris Garcia that’s cause Isaac Arthur is an AI
The 36 minutes it took me to watch this video felt like five minutes! Congratulations! This is a very, very, very interesting video!
I subscribed and I'll try to check your other videos whenever I have time!
I c what you did there.
+Nicholas Cahill Time dilation?
Actually I didn't mean to say what Nicholas though. I didn't even think about that at the time or the comment. That was pretty clever from him! ;)
I feel like I was just told the greatest story ever.
:D
"You'd have to be a determined war-monger to fly a billion years to do war with someone."
... well, if you piss me off enough... just saying...
^Xelee is that you???/
@@hyperdude144 *xeelee
"There is nowhere you can go, that I won't find you and destroy you... "
Why are you using your brother's profile pic, Riley?
R/watchpeopledie
I'm astonished I haven't encountered this channel before. This is absolute top tier futurism stuff, what a treat. Thanks Warhammer 40k for nudging The Algorithm in the right direction.
The universe is the largest megastructure.
mega structore
Belinsky-Khalatnikov-Lifshitz (BKL) singularity is a time singularity describing the entire universe.
Joel Virolainen What about the multiverse??
Realistic Intellect antimatter was discovered from physical algebra of Dirac equations. Time in Dirac equation is capable of moving backwards. Antimatter from BKL time singularity is transferring matter from universe to another if time travel is unable to be true.
Michael Chaney Woah, thanks for the info. I had an idea that time could travel backwards, but I didn't know energy/matter is or could be transferred from one universe to another just like that. Also, do you think that time is a fundamental concept in our universe, or a psychological interpretation of something else in the universe?
Isaac Arthur thinks WAY bigger than anyone else I have ever heard before!
Speed of light: “I have ended your interplanetary communication!”
Humans changing their perception of time: “Get f*cked.”
We are simulated civilisation at he end of times, the year is 11 trillion and we are orbiting a black hole in a supercomputer at the temperature close to obsolute zero. We go into a simulation for 5 minutes to live the whole live. And the next one, and again and again...
My next live is at Tau Ceti star system. I will be an octopus with a iq of 211 living in the sea of methane.
bwv1044 11 trillion years is still the stellar era.
bwv1044 - That's weird!! I've always (well, posted on my FB bio part in 2008) said when I die, I'm of to explore the Canis Major constellation; though I'd never decided as what!?!? >XD
See you around... at some point... maybe! :D
On a sidenote, I need to put my simulated calor gas fire on again!!
And even during Stelliferous era's last hundred thousand years the galaxies beyond our own cluster would be barely detectable, leaving anyone in their own dark separated from us...
@@TheEyez187 ecks dee so quirky
This is EXACTLY what I've been looking for. Your content is top notch! Thanks.
This channel doesn't get enough publicity like it should. So glad I found this. It's really a hidden gem in the rough.
Imagine for a second, however many billion years in the future, there is some simulated entity looking through documents from the dawn of human civilization, watching what remains of this video. The idea that we are not in a sim now, but could have this degree of foresight is kinda awesome.
He added subtitles, use those if you are having issues. This is very well done. Thanks.
+Soylant Open your eyes and put on some 3d glasses. :-)
Or he could be perfectly normal except for a speech impediment. You're making a LOT of assumptions based on little evidence. The content creators read their comments. Treat them like real people instead of being so rude.
Gordon Mahala You responded to the wrong person. I said nothing about subtitles.
My3dviews lol, he responded to my comment about subtitles but somehow wrote your name.
I'm having an existential crsis because of this video.
You are magnificent.
Are you butt hurt? lol
@ don emerson
Are you really THIS ignorant?! o_0
Radicaldanny+ Are you really This gullable? Yes you are it sucks to be you.
@ don emerson
No, it seems you are though... :\
Oh god, now all the Gamers(TM) will think Real Life is a computer-game and start bitching in forums, asking for nerfs.
I have been thinking about these kinds of topics my whole life and am so happy that I have found a youtube channel dedicated to them. Thank you for creating a community for me!
It’s crazy coming back to these super early videos and seeing just how janky the animations are to see how far this channel has come in the 5 years since this video, with how beautiful and slick the animations are now.
I would scrap discussions about living area. It's not a very compelling motive for an advanced civilization to build mega structures.
Advanced civilizations might very well have stable populations. They might also have sufficiently advanced computer technology to simulate universes in which most of the populations lives. If your citizens each take a cubic centimeter of processor running on a few milliwatts of power, and your civilization spans an entire galaxy, living area just isn't a concern.
"No post-stellar programmer will ever need more memory than a 640K dimensional hyperspace." And the Chinese will find a way to pack it all into a single subatomic particle, with a gamma ray for a serial interface.
Rich people would probably love it the same way they like living in skyscrapers above cities now. A big galaxy empire might have enough wealthy to fill a whole megastructure.
I was always depress when I thought about the end of the universe but this video brings a new light on it, maybe the end is not so dark and cold as I was always thinking.
I have been going trough your channel for a few days by now and I have to say, I am highly impressed! Your videos really widened my mind and I am interested in things like these for around a decade. Also I have to say, that your speech impediment, doesn´t bother me at all and without any mentioning of it, I would never ever thought it to be one.
Maybe this is because german is my mother tongue (even though my english is almost as good as my german).
In all honesty I have had much more problems with other accents by people of the US and UK, not to mention, the different accents we have in Germany, which sometimes are nearly impossible to understand.
But anyways, your videos are very interesting and deserve more views.
Thanks to Joe Scott, I finally found your channel.
Welcome to the Channel Angelo, and yeah my impediment never bothered anyone over in Germany [my utter lack of fluency in spite of being stationed there for years is another matter], but it does seem to depend on where the listener is from and what they're used to. Everyone notices it in Ohio but until I started the channel I'd never had anyone remark negatively on it my whole life, so its probably very region-based.
Isaac Arthur I actually love the way you pronounce words. It has an endearing quality to it. Your videos are exceptional, and I feel that your particular style of speaking makes them unique and genunine. Keep on making fantastic videos sir 😊
G'day Isaac,
Since discovering your channel last year I've been working my way through every single one of your videos from oldest to newest. I'm an electrical engineering student with a love of physics, excited about the possibilities of current and future engineering methods. Your videos are outstanding - I love how you cover futuristic concepts and formulas along with their possible applications in such an interesting and thought provoking way.
This video is the best I have seen so far and I'm only about half way through your entire catalogue - can't wait to see the rest of your material.
Thanks for the great content!
I think this is the only video or even literature I've found that talks about the perception of time and how you can beat light speed by slowing down our perception of it, I wish more Sci Fi would use this concept. Thanks!
This reminds me of "The Last Question", one of my favorite short stories
One of Asimov's best. :)
Feeling so much more optimistic about the future now ☺️
I have to like the optomemism of someone who can make even the end of the universe seem like something to look forward to.
Well done, I loved it!
This is epic. Here in dank and sodden Blighty Dr Arthur's Friday seminar represents a warm womb of cosmic knowledge and wonderment. Humanity will endure!
Every time I'm anew amazed by how good your videos are. You are (aguably) the best content-creator of this topic(s) on RUclips. :)
That is exactly what I tell my friends and coworkers.
Totally agree!
You're lucky. When I tell my friends and coworkers they get a glazed-over look and change the subject. I think that's one reason I read so many of the comments. It's refreshing to see that there people that understand the topic and contribute to the discussion.
agree 1.00e+11341235389123619724518923764912386591238471023985912 %
g64
Imagine civilizations beyond the level of black-hole farming. Imagine the harvesting of entire timelines (or other universes, depending on whether you favor that or a time-based theory).. intentionally collapsing timelines.. crazy to the nth degree.
Such civilizations will exist forever
K Man ... gods come from civilizations such as those....
We could create our own Universe or even more of those. :)
Except time doesn't exist in the way you seem to think it does. Time is just a measurement of movement, not an actual thing.
GeorgeMonet .... A measurement of movement?
Then stationary objects are not subject to passing time?
Hi Isaac. About the several negative comments on your speech impediment: There are many parts to public speaking, cadence, stress on syllables and words, how fast you talk, emphasis on some points, pauses, etc. In all these areas, you excel, you're quite simply one of the finest public speakers I've ever heard, and I've heard a lot. It make the complicated material being presented much easier for me to digest. Your speech impediment is a very small thing, and doesn't bother me in the least.
Though I realize you do these videos because you love doing them, I'd still like to thank you - for the work you put into them, and for the positive addition to my knowledge base, and more importantly, to my attitude and psyche. It's so easy to drown in the ridiculous stuff that's going on these days, but your presentations expand my horizons, and put things into a different perspective. They give me peace and hope as well as knowledge, and I'm in your debt for that.
Okay - to my original reason for commenting: You touched on the big bang theory, as well as dark matter and energy. I have to say that I've long been bothered by these "theories" (hypotheses, actually). I believe in a perspective guided by Occam's razor, and when I think that all these theories are based on little photons that have traveled through almost unimaginable distances, through variations of space/time that we don't thoroughly understand yet, (if we ever do), I wonder if it may not be a bit presumptuous (if not downright arrogant :) ) to put so much stock in them. Not being a physisist, I can only surmise that they help you in looking at other things. But they remind me of Eisenstein's fudge factor (Cos. Constant) and we know how that turned out :)
It occurs to me that it's a much simpler explanation that travel through different space / time "areas" might distort our evaluation of the mass and trajectories existing out there, and our extrapolations from them might be wrong. Making up dark matter and energy, and *especially* the acceleration of the expansion of the Universe - man - mysterious, unseeable dark energy that is causing the acceleration? Dark matter that we can't see in any way other than that it weakly interacts with gravity? It all seems a bit far fetched. My intuition tells me that the universe is just out there, stationary, unending, always been there, and always will be there, and all these perturbations we manufactured are just a lack of understanding about how space/time works.
Love your works, I eat them up, slowly, cherishing every bite, like a sublime cheesecake. :) Keep up the good work!
Problem with dark matter is that folks say there's little evidence of it so often than other folks tend to think this is is the case. Repetition and all that. Quite to the contrary, we've got more proof DM exists than we do for what goes on in the center of the planet or sun, but figuring out what the stuff is, that's the thing we haven't done yet. But DM *is* the Occam's Razor solution to the observable evidence... which akin, there is a ton of. See the Dark Matter and Dark Energy episode for further discussion.
Wow, these videos make me feel so positive and hopeful, I just love them. Thank you.
:)
Your shows are the best on the web. Thank you for the inspiration, time and effort.
Wouldn’t time dilation help too around black holes?
Even after 4 years, this is my favorite video. If Asimov was a RUclipsr, his name would be Isaac. Oh wait ;) !
Life may continue after all sounds good
Brilliant video! Actually very uplifting and inspirational, to think that, long after stars cease to form, our journey as a civilization might have just begun :)
Slowing down subjective time to communicate easier over long distances... That really had me thinking.
Great video as always! :)
Check out Charles Sheffield's "Between the Strokes of Night".
Thank you, i will! I'm just done with my current book which was pure gold; "A Short History of Nearly Everything" by Bill Bryson - it really gives you a perspective of where we are in history. :)
That was a good book
You are one of the best You Tubers in history, EASILY (and on the shortest of lists). Just needed to say so. Keep it up brotha.
Holy shit, why I haven't seen your channel before? My brain has been carpet bombed!
subscription earned several times over.
Thanks! Welcome to the Channel!
Mind blown :) As far as your vids so far, this is your best or at least one of your very best.
The orders of magnitude being contemplated quickly become dizzying. Despite havng been a scifi buff for most of my life, I was both shocked and delighted to learn about the end times scenarios which are possible. A real eye opener, and a very different take from the usual astronomical fodder we get about eras trillions of years hence. Most people get hung up on our ballooning sun ending it all, whereas, as you detail, dealing with this should in fact be just a flick of the wrist for us as an advanced species. Indeed, the fact that as a 20th century-born person I can already figure out how to rescue Earth means that it's going to be no biggie.
I do however have one quibble, and it comes back to those dizzying powers of ten. In the same way that I cannot imagine what it means to be a trillion times more intelligent, I can also NOT imagine how we'd somehow, through our future hyper-intelligent physics, fail to follow The Door's suggestion to "break on through to the other side". There's going to be a side door we can slip through and bid goodbye to all this low energy aged stuff. More I cannot say, for at least the reason that I don't know and in any case it begins to sound more and more ersatz-religious, and the temptation to use the word "transcend" will become unbearable. Oops, I just did.
Once again, kudos on a great vid. I'm liking, I'm sharing.
Love that song. Anyway everything we talk about at these kinds of scales is kinda quasi-religious in tone, so I wouldn't worry about it, other than to be careful of falling into some of the mental traps that tend to plague the Singularitarian transhumanist faction for instance. We don't really have an ability to not think of it that way except in raw math, but I think its worth trying to contemplate it to some degree, even in probably false contexts of human level intelligences kicking around then, rather than throw our hands up in frustration from the overwhelming scope. I mean if you're staring at the immensity of a Matrioshka Brain even the most hardened atheist is going to say "My God!" and it's probably going to reply back "YES?"
LOL :) Shades of Dwar Ev
On a second viewing, various points become clearer. I'd advise people to watch at least this particular vid at least twice, because of the density of the material. Or it's just that I'm getting old :/ In any case, given this surprising scenario of a massive blossoming of digital civilisation in the extreme end times, and the huge numbers involved, Bostrom's hypothesis that it's highly likely that we are RIGHT NOW part of an Ancestor Simulation becomes an almost inescapable conclusion!
I find this profoundly unsatisfactory, but the numbers cannot lie.
That's the irksome thing about SimHyp and the Anthropic Principle in general, it confronts you with the sheer enormity of numbers and some clear motivations to do it, plus means and opportunity are both there. Of course it still doesn't mean we are in one, there are genuine counterarguments, but the big takeaway from it - from my perspective anyway, it really is subjective - is that it doesn't matter whether or not you're in a simulation any more then if your mind is on neurons, computer chips, etc you still think and therefore am and therefore am not a simulation in the sense of not being a person but rather a fake. We still live in a Universe, it just might be artificial in origin, which is hardly a new notion and doesn't pertain to if it is 'real' or not, anymore than a story is real depending on whether or not its oral tradition, recorded on parchment, or stored digitally.
This is my all time favorite channel. I listen to these videos every night. Very easy to watch and or listen to every video multiple times. Thanks from the heart!
The Stellar Universe is a prologue, and the real civilization exists in the long cold darkness after the stars die.
What an interesting perspective! Makes me feel slightly optimistic about a lot of other things that now start to seem so small.
Extremely amazing videos, just discovered your channel today and it has a lot more informative and interesting content than pretty much any channel I've seen. It makes me so extremely annoyed to scroll down to comments and see people talking about your speech impediment (which is easily fixed with closed captioning, and which you even mention), rather than intelligent discussion of ideas. Anyway, I don't normally comment on videos much, but I just wanted to say that you seem incredibly intelligent and the content you make is top notch, so I hope you continue to make it. Thank you!
Amazing, you're getting better with every video.
Glad to hear that!
Excellent video. very accurate and informative. I found this one by chance, I will be spending more time here looking through your others.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed and welcome to the channel!
I've been binge watching your channel lately, and this is my favorite video so far. Keep them coming!
Mind Blown
That's what I aim for :)
I have maybe 25 of your videos under my belt and this one is definitely the most mind blowing yet!
Incredible video! Congrats on such great work!
Thank you!
I never considered the possibility of us altering the destiny of the natural universe. Very well done!
Awesome video - IMHO one of the coolest on the channel. Thanks and keep up the great work :)
It's sad that people are more interested in accent rather than the actual content in this video.
Interesting....you truly have a gift to envision all this.
(They cannot be regarded as the civilizations at the end of time but rather the real real civilization of everything that came before simply a quick prologue) - This sentence is a masterpiece.
So black holes have a timeline of 10^68 years while it is thought that all matter would decay at 10^27 years. (Not exactly sure)
These civilizations if they have to survive must exist just outside the event horizon zipping at nearly the speed of light.
So they really don't have to slow down time since the time dilation would be extreme.
Also it is thought that black holes evaporate as soon as they are formed but they are so massive and they bend space time to that extremity it just takes really long from our perspective.
All this assuming type 4 civilization exists as baryonic matter.
Also your idea of communication between civilizations is baffling. I would assume there cannot be any communication is terms of radio waves since they would get red shifted out of existence. Also since space will expand so fast that any 2 points after a trillion years would be beyond the event horizon. I think they would use some sort of instant communication (Quantum entanglement maybe) that is outside the 4 dimensions we currently know of.
I'm not sure about the hawking radiation but from what I've read about it is that there are 2 opposite pairs that pop in and out of existence and that when one get's too close to the event horizon one particle enters and leaves this space while the other is converted to photon and emitted.
What you said about black holes still growing despite not being active got me thinking. Do you think that inactive black holes are absorbing the cosmic background radiation ? It does make sense.
Black holes give back what they have absorbed through hawking radiation. Could it actually be a explosion time dilated to an extreme that it appears incredibly slow to us.
Would appreciate your insights. Thanks
Yes the black hole as very slow-motion explosion is one popular interpretation, in regard to communication though only things which are not gravitationally bound will expand away, but those will not be reachable by any light-speed method, I am just assuming there is not FTL communication for the purpose of the video.
(10 months later)
. _"black holes have a timeline of 10^68 years while it is thought that all matter would decay at 10^27 years."_
-> Assuming this is true, you can still use any source of energy to create new quarks by "streching" the ones present inside an available proton/neutron every 10^24 years or so [simply to replace the "old matter" with "new matter"].
-> Even if electrons also decay at some time, you can get some new ones for free coming from the electron/positron virtual pairs "separated" by the event horizon [Hawking Radiation]; at least the few ones that managed to not hit something at the acretion disk or met another "orphaned positron" separated the same way.
-> A Type 4 Kardashev Civilization (multi-galaxies management just from the more "nearby" part of their observable Hubble Volume) can remain "barionic" forever as long as they have a source of energy.
- - - - -
. Black holes do not really "interact" with our universe below their event horizon [even black hole mergers only deform their event horizons releasing energy as gravitational waves from outside its surface, never from the "inside"].
. Since the exact mechanism of the formation of the very first "line" of the event horizon happens on the interior layers of a star (with very bright plasma both on top and below of it), there could be some photons trapped just a few nanometers "above" this initial horizon trying to escape [needing in theory an eternity to do so, if nothing else falling later into the black hole ever hits them].
. Most of this extremely red shifted photons will not manage to get far away fast enough before the natural increase of the black hole radius [from simple absorption of the microwave background radiation] would raise the event horizon over them, slowly falling down into the singularity [never ever to be seeing by anyone out there].
. A few of them may just keep moving slightly faster at the same rate of this pasive expansion, finally getting free near the end of the black hole era releasing their data... that has nothing to do with the black hole itself but the original star.
-> *Hawking Radiation is NOT the black hole "explosion" slowed down in time.* The final burst of a black hole DO NOT comunicate anything from inside.
- - - - -
. _"there cannot be any communication is terms of radio waves since they would get red shifted out of existence"_
-> If each "node" of this black hole civilization "lives" very close to the event horizon (meaning their stable orbits have to move close to the speed of light, getting about the same time dilation as if they were moving in a straight line at that speed).
-> Then the problem of sending signals out of their gravity well can be solved using high energy gamma rays (redshifted to just radio or microwaves) with some satelites orbiting the black hole a little farther to catch them and re-send them as efficient lasers towards the next black hole comunity [where another set of telescopes would detect them and re-sent the signal using low powered "nanowaves" that would be received "down there" as normal radio].
. The distance between each black hole comunity would remain about the same (as they would be orbiting the same GIGA-galaxy made of old star remmants and blackholes); the expansion of the universe would not be strong enough to counteract their shared gravity [if we exclude the BIG RIP scenario]; with any deviation being easy to compensate using the mass of black dwarves (sending them on higher galactic orbits or even on escape trajectories if necesary).
Argamis (SilverComet) Adding to that, proton decay time is about 10^36-10^40 years in the future, not 10^29 years.
Can't wait for that real-time galaxy-wide LAN party.
years later this is still one of my favorite yt videos of all time.
Iron stars can last around 10^1500 years or more, what about tapping potential from those to even further extend yours and your civilizations' lifespan?
Pretty cool concept and ideas,Glad i found this channel. I am near deaf so your captions help a lot. Thanks for that.
Question: If universe is expanding, where is it expanding to? I mean what is the final destination?
I've watched this with great interest a few times, I don't recall any other discussion of this topic- the specific idea of a civilization living in an entirely dark universe on ?? a fraction of a watt per citizen... or a hundred watts for the whole thing? Man! It took a few tries to get through the whole thing. I have to say, I often feel that we are getting lost in our topics here, wandering very widely, sometimes it's hard to remember what we came here FOR. Another "problem" I have with this series is that we're so eager to dive into this vast gee-whiz future that sometimes what seem like very severe difficulties are waved away just for the sake of the discussion, and then we're so amazed by the conclusion that we don't want to spoil it by remembering that we just skipped some severe problems. HERE is a bad one for the "hundred-watt civilization": Having been chewing on this for a few days, something that keeps coming up: I LOVE the idea of just ignoring the practical problem of the speed o' light in communications. AND YET, if you're running your whole SHOW on a hundred watts, how much power do you have to MAKE that phone call to the other side of the stinking GALAXY (say)? Can a little blinking high-efficiency LED be SEEN across tens of thousands of very dark and cold light-years? Even if it's ON and OFF for decades at a time???? More to the point, and more severe: If your whole vast civilization runs on a few watts for everything.... can you DO ANYTHING of ANY DESCRIPTION? Can anything physically move at all, ever, for even the most desperate reason? Since we're talking hardware lasting for billions of years here, maybe there is very little need to physically change anything... but will even... unplugging a single plug take the emergency power budget for a thousand or ten thousand years? Many of the previous vast "plans" depend on robots building robots and directing robots, and generally autonomously building and fixing things, but... can this kind of civilization retain ANY ability to do ANY physical activity at all? Hard but not impossible to imagine some kind of repair machines running on microwatts, taking a generation to move one meter....
His alien Beacons video answers one of your questions
Black Hole Farmers be like:
It's not much, but it's honest work
Greetings from Canada. Great video. Thank you for the awesome information. Loving all your videos.
Thanks!
We are a simulated civilization at the end of time and they decided to add Fortnite and dabbing...
Just pull the plug
I think this was the first or second of your videos and one of my favorites. 30 videos later...
This is the most information rich video I've seen in a while, probably in my life. Amazing.
5:29 Much older neutron stars can also be pulsars, if they are spun back up by accreting material from a companion star. Millisecond pulsars, which spin hundreds times per second, are formed this way.
How do we know anything actually goes into a black hole? In Dr. Susskind's lectures on black holes he says that if Bob was traveling on a trajectory that would take him into the black hole and Alice was traveling on a trajectory that allows her to observe Bob but *not* enter the black hole, from Alice's point of view it would take forever as in infinity for Bob to enter the black hole. This is a pretty standard description.
Also, there might be a fire-wall which would vaporize anything it comes in contact with. First we thought information entering a black hole would be lost but then we discovered holographic principal so now we know information is not lost but we discover other problems to do with equivalence principle and other major issues I will not get into right now but we are forced to sacrifice a principle of physics. but the real question is how do we know anything goes into a black hole since you could not actually watch an item go into a black hole because time dilation would be so strong that time for the object entering would have appeared to have stopped from the point of view of the Observer?
Well for this topic we don't really care what goes on inside a black hole, just what's going on right outside it.
Isaac Arthur indeed. I was just curious to hear your thoughts.
I'm not a cosmologist or GR expert, but in general I mistrust any setup that seems like a modern version of Zeno's Paradox.
Isaac Arthur Well, it is an interesting thought. You have to admit. Thanks for response. 😎👍
I have had discussions with many people about this. Generally, they focus on how this "infinite fall" makes the black hole impossible, and claim it discounts to possibility of black holes being a real thing. This, I imagine, is why Isaac shies away from the topic.
The fact is, we don't know what happens under a black hole. Our models of gravity and light say that light cannot travel faster than a certain speed, and in a black hole, at the event horizon, the inward acceleration exceeds that of light speed. That means light cannot escape. But it does not mean that region of space is frozen and impossible. What it means is that any object falling in would experience time dilation to an extreme degree.
Now, the problem here is that you have two mutually correct points of view, and according to relativity, neither is a preferred frame of reference. From the point of view of the faller, the event horizon would come and go, and the only negative effects one would feel are the pull of gravity from the black hole (likely deadly, but we'll move on). From the point of an external viewer, it _looks like_ the person falling hits the event horizon, starts redshifting, becomes dimmer, and their image becomes forever smeared across the black hole's photosphere, never to cross the barrier.
You see, that image is _not_ the person falling. It's light which has reflected off of or has been emitted from the person falling. They're not stuck there, the photons are. The person goes right in, from their perspective.
I set these videos going while I do the washing up because that is the only timw I have free.
You are brilliant, I'm downloading you on Goole Podcasts to listen to you while driving.
Redstone Experts be like: Alright, how are we gonna farm an infinite amount of these things per second guys? *5 minutes later*
Alright not to hard now let’s get it harvesting!
Absolutely amazing video as always!
I've always been interested in things of this grandeur scale, from megastructures to sun and even black hole mining/farming. I gotta say, this is one of my fav videos from your channel, coming from someone who spent like a hour reading the Endless Space tech tree.
I remember Endless Space, I liked their inclusion of Dysons but obviously it was pretty modest compared to the real deal, which considering one could swat an entire classic space opera galactic empire all on its own make sense for maintaining game balance :)
+Isaac Arthur Ha, imagine a Nicoll Dyson beam being an end game weapon. I wonder if there are any ways planets can actually defend against such overtly advanced weapons. Maybe not even a Dyson beam but a projectile let loose from a spaceship going relativistic speeds, assuming you had equal technology how could you defend your planets/ships from such weaponry?
I think I mentioned a few defenses in the Nicoll-Dyson video at some point. I'm not near my notes right now though. If not, James Nicoll might know some others, I'm sure he's contemplated it more than I or received notes from others on it, he's active on Facebook and is on my friends list if there's a ton of people of that same name, he was rather happy with the video so I assume he's kept up interest in the idea.
You just keep getting better at this, Isaac!
I had an idea regarding Panthalassic planets. I think land creatures would still end up evolving on such planets. Essentially, something akin to plants might still end up evolving and as they became more complex, they would end up generating convoluted rafts of vegetation upon which creatures could pull themselves out of the water and live an at least amphibian life.
Yes, and actually I hadn't considered that one really, I'd thought of ice rafts breaking off and drifting from the poles, or just polar ice, as a place where land life might develop but especially if the world has little tidal force on it, no large moon, big giant sea rafts actually does seem quite plausible, great notion, definitely going in the video, thanks!
I always enjoy your videos. You put so much work, thought and effort into each one. You should have your own cable network channel.
Here in the grimdark future of the 41st millennium I'm a wormhole farmer. I grow Hawking taters with a 99.1% energy conversion rating. Can you believe my cousin still grows Gamma taters with only a 97.8% efficiency?
I love this kind of content, keep up the good videos.
"Shhhh... I'm famwing bwack holes"
You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Amazing video! Some mind blowing figures and possibilities, seems more likely that we are existing in some sort of system like this then anything else when you consider the scale of it all like you said. Hopefully we make it that far if not!
2:12 thanks for my new wallpaper
i was kinda inspired by this video. i wrote a song
(warning kinda creepy)
so you,ve got an invitation to the party at the end of time. it wont cost a single dime
we're goin' round the last starlight, so wont you dance with me tonight .ohh we're givin' up the fight, so lets grab a last glass of wine.. in the party at the end of time.
we'll sorrow with the wolves from Sirius B, cause we all know our final destiny. don't matter to you, don't matter to me... at the party at the end of time.
we're running out of radiation. we all know our final destination, cause we're the last generation.
and when the party ends, we'll all be friends. and say our last long goodbye, as we head off into the final night.. in the party at the end of time. (ending solo on electric guitar)
Not so much creepy as a bit melancholy perhaps, though it would depend on the beat. Please do let me know if you record it, I'd love to hear it played.
I would totally listen to this song. From your description, it sounds like one of the sadder kind of prog-rockish songs of the '70s, and that's not a bad thing.
Also, since we're talking about songs and black holes, I can't resist:
_Black hole sun, won't you come_ ...
The univorse...
hahahah
But great content anyway :)
Your accent is just hilarious.
FORST. ORTH
If human civilization goes extinct, I'm imagining alien archaeologists trying to recover what they can, and this video is the only thing they manage to recover that has any speech that isn't just text, and then this is what they think all humans sounded like.
Except he says he has a speech impediment, they figure his speech impediment is how it's supposed to sound and the rest of it is the speech impediment, so when alien 'earth fans' learn to speak human English much in the way lord of the rings fans learn to speak elvish, and there being so many of those aliens in the future, this turns out to be the by far most common way of speaking English in the long run.
Hyperbole aside, i actually find his way of speaking quite pleasant.
yall are dicks
"less power than the device you're watching this video on"
not surprised, I have an fx 9590 and GTX 480
Thank you for the captions
pfft you think a slow cold computer around a black hole is impressive? Try a black dwarf that will slowly have it's carbon & left over helium transmute into iron via quantum tunneling over the course of an estimated 10^1500 years barring proton decay. Presumably this would give off power though unbelievably slowly but it would also last much longer than most black holes. anyway a matrioshka brain around one of those performing calculations at the landau limit would be fascinating if it were actually viable. I mean the total amount of energy it would have access to would be minuscule compared to a black hole but it could be far colder than a decaying black hole as well.
great video dude! what a very interesting topic and this content is entertaining! an achievement in itself lol
Thanks!
Your content is fantastic. I find a lot of videos(about similar topics) are either to basic or they start jumping into crazy advanced maths and/or needlessly complicating the information.
You strike a great balance. I may have to re-watch certain parts or google a word here and there, but the message comes through and it's fascinating.
Thanks, that's the nominal goal, to fill in the niche between the quick basic overview and the the strictly technical math-heavy academic papers.
The univAURse Xp. Excellent video keep up the good work!
yes
Noo! Don't kill me!
2:10 - I was laughing soooo hard!!! I can just picture Cletus the Black Hole Farmer in the Backwood Galaxy using his Space Deere Tractoholer and saying “that them there’s some gooood eveeent horeezeens!
Now I have the science for my sci-fi story. Thanks
Guys please stop mentioning about Issac's speech impediment. It is very rude to say something about it, and it is WORSE if you make jokes about it. He may or may not care but it is still very harsh to say anything about it. I should know, I have one myself, I have a speech impediment called lisp (which is issues with ''s'' sounds). I used to be bullied SO MUCH about it, kids mimicked how I talked in front of the class when they answered questions or talk to me mimicking the speech impediment. I used to go home DESTROYED, I would go to my room and cry for a VERY long time, my self esteem was RUINED all because of my lisp. One time some boy mimicked me so badly I cried in front of my class, some kids laughed at me along with the bully while others just stared. What made me feel better is when my teacher got so angry he SCREAMED at my bully then giving him a referral. But I was so destroyed that day I didn't go to school for the rest of the week. Even as a freshman now a girl even said in front of my friends and crush "Hey, do you know how you talk?". And in 8th grade my friend told me "You sound like a snake." (which may me look like I was ready to cry, my friend felt bad and she said sorry and wanted to cry for hurting me).
It may or may not hurt Issac now but I bet (and for anybody else here who has a speech impediment) he must have been hurt ONCE because of it, it really can take a toll on somebody and how they fell about themselves. It is very terrible for you guys to mention or make jokes about it! It is EXTREMELY disrespectful to say anything, it is not our fault that we have it, and it is NEVER easy to get rid of it. I know the pain of speech problems and I have dealt with very tough things due to it. I would find it very caring if you guys stop, because it is far more impacting then what you guys think it is.
This is great advice, thanks for sharing :)
Whose awful idea was it to describe a lisp with the letter s?
*WOSE
Nice job turning the situation into a pity party for yourself. If nobody was offended by the jokes before, it isn't your place to come in trying to shame people.
He jokes about it too. Sooooo.
Can someone elaborate on the text at 17:40? How do bigger stars burn only a little of the fuel they have compared to smaller stars?
Maybe the answer is a little bit late, but still....
Stars don't fuse hydrogen in their entire volume but only in a relatively small region in their center. Also,
stars above the red dwarf category (above 0.4 or 0.6 times the mass of our sun) are not fully convective, i.e. they don't "mix" through while they burn. The part which is convective is smaller for heavier stars, so less new hydrogen can enter the core of the star where fusion takes place.
Thanks, somehow I missed Hobbes comment :)
Just want to say thank you for your dedication. The videos are well put together from the video itself to the thoughts and ideas and how you present them. I can put these on while I'm going to sleep, focus on what's being said but still relax and drift away in to a lucid dream. Keep it up please. I'd love to be able to help with the channel outside of kind words of encouragement since I definitely don't want you to stop any time soon.
My voice does seem to be a good natural somniac :) And thanks, we're not stopping anytime soon, the channel's just getting started really.
I watched this video, and when I finished, a hundred years had passed
what is your day to day occupation? assuming educator.
No, public official, I doubt most teachers want to do more of that in their spare time.
ok thank you.
Arthur for president (of the civilization at the end of time)
@@isaacarthurSFIA !!! ??? !!! Man! You hear about three-year plans, five-year plans... Centenary goals (this from China), Buckminster Fuller used to talk about making decisions on thousand-year planning horizons... Isaac Arthur could be in the department of LONG RANGE planning! 10 ^3 year plan, 10 ^5 year plan... Working on the first Billion-Year Plan!