FYI, I really love the direction of your channel as of late. I think you've found a nice niche with this kind of analysis. I can find 100 people on RUclips showing me how to hit my groundstrokes, but almost none that do what you're doing now. And you do it well. Thank you.
Ha ha ha! **Loved** your comment (but alas could only hit 'like'). Kinda makes you wonder how often the same is true of Life's other little instances. Good thing we don't wear body cams. Your humility and ego strength is much appreciated. Good on ya!
Just played a pusher and had this video in my mind for the whole match. Took 4 games to get into a groove, opponent was so similar to the videos, I'm not up to tennis troll's standard but needed to find a way to win. Used drop shots, deep heavy topspin and looking for high percentage winners. Always looking to get to mid court for winners. One thing missing from the video series is how difficult it is to hit good techniques against the junk balls. Comfortable win in the end but definitely thanks to this series
Truly appreciate you calling out all the "professional" club players who think their level is way higher than it is. Im always amazed at how slow tennis at my club appears when I am simply watching others play. Getting on the court quickly changes the perspective and suddenly the shots seem faster and the court seems larger on my side and smaller on the opponent's side lol.
Tennistroll has great technique. He would be a great hitting partner, his footwork is an indication he is a higher level player. When you meet a pusher, you judge their technique and then are upset when you couldn’t beat them. They take you apart mentally. You start to lose confidence in all your swings because you feel like you need to keep hitting winners. You lose by your own errors.
Only 7k away from the goal! Getting closer! Loved at 10:39 telling people to record themself. I think everyone should see themself play at least once. Gives a very good reality check.
Great analysis. Your technical tools are perfect for being able to accurately communicate these concepts. Good work. Also, your comment about ball speed on videos is spot on. I would estimate that video slows down the ball by at least 30% or more. This probably has something to do with the eye's lack of proper 3d depth perception on a video.
You’re dead right about people who are ragging on these players have never watched themselves on video. I was staggered when I realised just how slow I was playing tennis. My whole demeanour, approach and technique were nothing like my mental perception.
Recording myself was really informative and very humbling. I would never publish it online because I look ridiculous compared to how I feel on the court.
You are right that ppl don't watch themselves. However, they watch ppl they play against. "Pusher" player has atrocious movement on the court and tennis troll managed to get past him only a couple of time for 2 sets. If that's not enough indication for you that tennis troll shots are slow and totally lack any penetration strength, then I don't know what else is.
Haha. I still remember how much i got shocked when I recorded my playing for the first time. I thought i was sprinting, but the man in the video was walking. My laser-straight winning shot was a slow floating knuckle ball.
Players at my level often struggle with my serve, they think it's quite fast. I thought I was at 110mph+. Played a tournament where they offered recording your game with automatic statistics... My hardest serve all game was 100mph, my regular "hard" serve is 90mph... Also it really looks ungainly. :-D
I watched this video. The pusher won the match in 2 sets. Something like 6 - 1 , 6 - 4 if I remember correctly. I felt his frustration. He was repeatedly lured to the net with drop shots then lobbed to death. The pusher was uncannily accurate. Agree with Ian, definitely one of the best pushers I've ever seen.
I feel like my pride is at stake if someone sees me get beaten by someone with awful technique. then i realized no one was watching and no one cares. my strategy: practice my serve so much that poor technique can't return it.
I think I played a type PUSHER some time ago in amateur tennis.. level would be something like 4 ish I think. My Opponent was less good than this pusher in these videos but it's interesting that at the time I didn't think of this concept of the pusher, and just found myself now realizing that during points I had exactly that feeling that I understand now as concept , playing and keep seeing balls coming back with backspin.. :) Can I share my video? I only have a set that I played with him and that is the set that I managed to play better and beat him, but in the end I lost in decisive set(2-1) with 6-4.
You don't have the end card in part 2 for this part 3 video (had to search it up which I did XD) but probably results in lower watch time then you deserve
Everyone who says that there are no pros who play like a pusher. The biggest example is Gilles Simon. He almost never goes for a winner and had years of succes with keeping his unforced errors very low
Agree with John Forde, just lost a game this week to a pusher. This video would be helpful kkkkk But one thing with all these items is : patience... if you rush to finish a point you might miss (my case most of the time 😪) Nice video BTW
A pusher once told me the secret of beating players like him, and it's compatible with what you've got here. He said: mix it up. Yes, you've got to do some solid rally work to get the point going and get the short ball. But then, if you attack every short ball the same way, the pusher will be ready to neutralise it. Yet if sometimes you hit deep topspin, sometimes you do a biting slice, sometimes you drop shot, sometimes you even do a chipped angle ... then the pusher doesn't know what way they're going to have to run, so their timing gets messed up. And then they get scared of hitting short, so they start going for lower percentage shots and making mistakes. For those who say a player with good technique would just smash a pusher off the court, one of the most useful pieces of online tennis advice I've ever found is that if you or I (or a pusher) played a set against Federer, he wouldn't be cracking 100mph forehands onto the lines. Because even he might have his timing go slightly off and start missing a run. He would play well within himself, keeping a high margin of error while applying just enough pressure to open up lots of gaps and force errors.
marco76uk1 Yup. For professionals, they won’t make each other uncomfortable unless they attack because they’re all so good offensively and defensively. But if someone like Nadal was against me and played his regular game, he might lose 2-3 points off of errors or double faults. So if he was trying to beat me while minimizing the points he loses, he’d just play heavy spin and move me around and force me to attack him. Chances are, I won’t come up with big enough shots to really hurt him, and he won’t make errors. As for me, my strategy against him would be serve as big as possible and attack whenever possible to just try and extract a couple of errors or even a winner and win a few points.
These videos changed my attitude in how I approach these players. I used to be in the "disrespect them" crowd. Now I view them as just another challenge to solve and try to keep my ego out of it.
So many of us spent years developing our shots. We had injuries, practiced for hours and days on end. When I see a pusher hitting absolute trash backhands, it's infuriating that he can get away with his lack of commitment to work. Not to say you can't win with craftiness and upsetting your opponent. I'm sure he does. But if you can find his weakness and pound away at that lack of hard work, it's the most satisfying thing in the game....
I was about to say the same thing. Tennis troll was only playing 2 dimensions of tennis, height and width. The pusher wasn’t uncomfortable. If he changed the depth and time given to his opponent, there would be more success. Easier said then done, and I still don’t like playing pushers.
What was that lyric from that Steppenwolf song in the 60's? "G-damn the pusher man!" ;-) Who'da thunk it would apply in tennis as well in 2020! Keep the analysis coming!
Ian, I've had a great time watching these 3 videos. Can you make a Part 4 video on how the most annoying player can improve and become even better at annoying his opponents? I must admit that I'm flirting with the "dark side" as I've started incorporating some of his techniques into my game and at my level it's had some rather promising results. 😉
Former 6.5 player here. Pushers like this can make you look like a rock star. You have to play within yourself and take over the point. My play is always approach strong and shorten the point. The key is to put them on defense with your approach. You'll get an easy volley or a defensive lob that you can finish the point with. Assuming you can volley and smash. Cheers..... Nice forehand volley tennistroll. Edberg would be proud.
I can appreciate the comment when people are talking about "patty cake tennis". People don't realize what the camera takes off the ball. If you get the chance to watch a professional tennis match - you better not blink or you'll miss a serve that you would normally see very well on TV. Those guys HIT THE BALL.
Great vid man, most of the people here in the comments are below or same level of these players making excellent for our improvement. Haha now you threw the dice about drop shots, you’ll have to tell us how to counter players good at. In another troll’s video it shows that green shirt is pretty good at drops.
I started playing tennis when i was 13 and i am now 62. I reached a 5.0 level for a short time. When i was in my early 30`s and playing around a 4.5 level i played someone like MEP and he cleaned my clock 6-1, 6-1. It was a humbling experience the continuous dinks, drop shots and lobs completely baffled me; i was so used to playing other players like myself.Would love to one day play the real MEP and now that i no longer have the stamina i bet it would be another drubbing.
I'm a counterpuncher and have problems with this type of player too. We both end up playing push tennis. It's exhausting ...! I would like to add that I LOVE playing this player- I have a few regular players that are pushers and I thrive on playing matches with them because they certainly keep me honest and make me earn every point. This is great- I beat some of them sometimes, but it is a challenge, and always when I come back to other regular players I go against I am sharper after competing against the PUSHER.
Hi! What about if you are the defensive player / pusher? Can you run a series on how to beat Tennis Troll, basically flip the script? Loving you're videos and I've already been implementing some high % tactics. 😀
Beating Tennis Troll would be a challenge. He has all the tools to beat a pusher except for an aggressive overhead. Troll moves well and seems to have good stamina, gets the ball back in play frequently, can hit topspin and hit angled shots. His backhand is not a weakness and can volley well. Most pushers can not hit aggressive passing shots as this defensive player does. Troll consistently gets his overhead back in play, so it is not a real weakness, he just doesn't punish the defensive player on short lobs. To beat troll you would have to use the same strategy you use now, keep getting the ball back, and move Troll around until he gets impatient and tries to force a winner.
Cash Mason Yeah it’s tough. His angled backhand is actually incredible. But his forehand isn’t anything special and can break down, so it might even be good to keep it on the forehand side. Sure it has a bit more pace but the backhand angle pulls you off court so that’s even worse for a pusher. Be ready to run and just try to keep every ball deep. Also if you can, mix up the spins a little. Throw slices and lobs to make sure he has to hit low and high and don’t let him get any rhythm. You’re gonna have to get a guy like him into a bad mental state where they start making a ton of mistakes and playing really passive. You can also do the combo where you draw him to net then lob. He doesn’t seem super comfortable up there.
How do you beat someone that hits and runs like this, but also does moonballs and other high, off pace shots with a lot of spin? I played someone like that and he was also a competent volleyer and would rip winners off of weak balls from me. So he'd go from dinks and moonballs to crushing the ball. Plus he'd run side to side like this guy.
Tennis troll is self taught I believe. Perhaps his lack of experience kept him from seeing what you see. Love that you have “pivoted” to provide two channels for both match play and instruction.
Ian a question about something you hinted at in this video, and spoke about in different issues related to heavy topspin....you talked about LATERAL players, those who love to go side-to-side. I had a coach tell me years ago if players love to go side-to-side, they tend not to like to come forward (you mentioned that), nor do they tend to like to handle high, heavy balls inside of them (down the middle). They tend to move left to right (or vice versa) but not do a traditional 'backstep' when jammed....would you recommend hitting in their bodies regularly during the neutral positions to set up the shorter balls?
Hey, I’m playing ITF junior ranked player and I’m 14 turning 15 right now, training and thanks so much for this video it showed a lot of flaws of mine. But the thing is would these strategies work with players who have good technique and good heavy neutral shots, not great aggressive shots and net play but great movement and heavy shots. Because I’m playing with good ITF players and I know from experience serve and volley works and drop shots do. Sometimes if I’m not too tight my forehand can create enough damage. But usually the high percentage and strong shots pattern never works for me. I’m not sure exactly how to play them when my forehand isn’t at its best stage
Thanks, Ian. With this pusher would it be a good idea to keep your shots more down the middle to take away his angle passing shots? Also, when approaching the net hit down the middle slices to again make the passing shots more difficult?
Awesome. I like how you gave troll a game plan based on his specific skill set. I wouldnt even know how to approach holding the grip troll uses lol. Probably would use a forehand slice and hold back for a lob.👍🏽
I hate slicer players. Do they actually think they are going to progress. I imagine them not making it past 4.0 imo i think part of qualifying to 4.5 is being able to beat slicers/pushers. Good vid good tips!
I would bet on option two all day for a win. Option one only works with the right timing of the dropshot, receiving a short ball after your shot went deep in the court of your opponent pushing him back, Option three question yourself are you able to hit a solid aprouch with enough pressure... if you trouble with pushers you probably don't. Use option 2 as a basic strategy mix it up with one or three if you have that specific skill set. I would stick with option 2 for 80 percent of the points only 20 percent for the other two. Drop shotting all the times makes me lose my rythm quick. All 3 have some technical demands that you have to master. Can you play solid topspin shot deep in the court. How good do you know yourself really as a player, like Ian says did you ever video yourself playing a match. For most it is a hard reality check every time they see themselves. The first time can be shocking. Your ego must be able to cope with the visual information. These guys are reasonably good amateur level players also for European standards this is the avarage level most play at.
I am sorry but this "analysis" was totally lame. You didn't notice one very obvious thing. Pusher's retrieving of balls wide on his backhand is really, really bad. All one needs to beat him is to hit short very angled cross court forehands. And they don't need any pace, like typical tennis troll shots. Literally over and over again. It's that simple.
I read the comments that blame pushers on focusing on winning rather than good technique. I guess I was a pusher. But I wasn't honestly trying to win. I focused on always getting the ball back. I felt that hitting long or hitting into the net was a horrible mistake. My usual partner (my husband) always rated the quality of our games or practice sessions by how many balls we could hit back and forth before missing. Our local pro always wanted us to be practice partners for her students because we could keep the ball in play. We had horrible technique, but didn't realize it.
I can see how Tennis Troll is a 4.5 but it doesn't look like that with The Pusher. The Pusher doesn't have a proper serve that you can expect from that level and it seems like he is only capable of hitting backspin strokes paired with undeveloped foot work.
I find these videos super interesting, but I really wish you'd stop with all the popups encouraging me to subscribe, turn on notifications, etc. It's really overbearing and makes it feel like you're trying to sell me something in a really slimy way. I know the reminders really help, and I could stomach one at the beginning of the video. Let the content speak for itself, please
Today is May the 19th, 2021 and now we know, as a fact, that those tactics actually work, as Ian was able to beat the "Green Shirt Guy" with certain ease :-)
Ian I got to thank you man! I was down 1-3 15-40 tonight against a pusher and I remembered this video and try bringing him in. Within two points he was saying 'I don't know why I try to volley' and I ended up clinching it 6-4. Thanks mate!
As a Pusher myself, I gotta agree Ian, the deep, heavy ball always causes me problems. It’s hard to do much with those. I can’t chop it, angle it or lob it...and those 3 returns are The Holy Trinity of a Pusher’s Arsenal. I feel completely comfortable at the net and relish chasing drop shots and angling them sharply back as a drop shot return, but I am a weird kind of Pusher. I just try to always win my serve and focus on getting just 1 break. If everyone here just listens and follows your advice, guys like me will be in trouble. Great stuff Ian...I think this may be your best 3 video series ever and your stuff always is helpful. Tim
My challenge is a slicer that I play every Friday and he approaches net whenever he can. He has developed amazing volley accuracy at the net now. He is the Bane of my existence LOL. I feel like affective lobs are my only defense.
I thnik this is NOT a great pusher.. he cant really run. He just has great touch and so he is a great slicer, lobber and drop shooter. Common thing with a pusher is that he wins with yout mistakes. Nevertheless the tactics showed by Ian is good but in my oppinion you cant beat a good pusher if you are not a complete player in terms o techniq. You have to be able to play deadly consistent groundstrokes and then finish the ball to the net in even more solid voleys and overheads.. often 2 or 3 in a row. A club player usually cant do this.
Troll did several things very well at least in the points that were shown: #1 did a great job of hitting low balls consistently. #2 great job of isolating his strengths (backhands and mid court shots) to opponents weaknesses (backhand). The one thing Troll should have done is to take advantage of his damaging shots. In many points, he hits a deep shot into a corner from a position inside the baseline and then retreats. Opponent floats a deep return, recovers his position and gets back to neutral. In those points, he's missing the opportunity to take 1 step in and take the ball early and stay ahead in the point.
Tennis Troll did a really good job hitting angles off the shallower balls the pusher hit. How would you, Ian, defeat a pusher who can keep the ball deep and high?
4. Teach him beautiful shots. My pusher teammate started his new technique about a year ago and instantly stopped winning. But he became a decent partner in doubles.
I say also be aggressive on your serve to these pushers. I hit a big serve and usually I can get a pusher to give me back a weak return on a hard hit serve. I think my serve is around 100mph currently. Also come into the net on serve and finish the point.
I don't play junk ball tennis however, when my opponent gets in to a consistent grove against top spin shots I throw in a few junk balls to vary the pace.
At our club we have some tournaments were we play 4 games. i lost against a pusher 0:4 still managed somehow to grt on rank 3 overall. i just lost mental.
Though Tennis Troll hit a strong shot when he approached the net, how close should he/anyone get to the net given the hacker or pusher would likely go for a lob? Secondly, it appeared to me the better the angle Tennis Troll hit the weaker or more behind in the point the hacker became....your thoughts on that type of strategy?
No disrespect to them I call them bottom feeders, your game has to be very consistent and hit those angles, first serves, I play a guy that hes a great lobber so volley isn't very suitable even after a good serve since he'll answer it with a lobb.
It’s very important to have a weapon in men’s tennis, very good at one thing is better than decent on everything. Tennis troll seems ok on every shots but he doesn’t really have a weapon so that’s probably why he is losing. I would work on my serves I know it’s all about the serves and forehand in men’s tennis
Excellent breakdown! Time to put this into practice 👍. Btw, the more I watch these strategy breakdowns, the more tennis is starting to look like chess.... Except that you're playing chess while running at full tilt all around the court.
This is GOLD Ian! Thank you! Pushers are my nightmare. Ja JA Can't wait for Covid Quarantine to finish and try this. By the way, exellent idea to analize tennis matches like the ones that most of us the mortals play. Keep it up
How about reversing the roles here. It might be useful to have a video showing how you can use pusher tactics to beat 'better' players. This might be for situations where your normal game just isn't cutting it and you need a plan B that might frustrate the opponent enough to knock him off his game. More tools in the tool chest to use when necessary... Just a thought. I particularly like the high looping shot to a corner tactic to get a short, weak ball to put away, by the way...
@maccajoe On top of that there is 1st also my pride. Sorry I cannot just push the ball back like this guy. I would feel ashamed beyond limits. And 2nd I want to have fun. And I don't have fun pushing balls back to the opponent. For that I might as well do anything else and not waste my time on court. Sure, I lose to all these pushers all the time, but if you told anybody your high rank, and then they see you playing like the pusher in this vid, they might die from laughter. There is more fun in losing while trying your best at actually winning than winning while just waiting for your opponent to make an error.
how do you feel approaching the net with a shot that isnt very deep? I've found that hitting deep approaches leaves me susceptible to lobs, whereas shorter balls dont. But if i hit a deep ball right at them, its hard to hit a lob bc they have to run out of the way.
Hit big serves pushers cant handle big serves. Move them around with every short they run out of steam close up at the net. He could have hit more drop shots you are right, esp when the guy was way behind the baseline, no way he'd get to the net.
What happen if my opponent is very good to make the ball land close to the base line.(he has no spin) I hit the ball with spin and power and he hits a high without spin again. What should I do to win over him?
Great vid. I usually lose to these guys, and never knew why. The rare times I win, I don’t even know why or what worked, and then lose in a rematch. Thanks for giving us a tangible strategy.
One point that was not addressed was the pressure on the serve. It is clearly seen that the serve is very light, and it is not noticed that it is pressed and received almost in the service box. Maybe it could be one more tool. Regards
What baffles me every time I play a pusher is how in the world they play with such poor technique but their shots always stay in the court. They defy the laws of physics 😁
" be thankful for puahers because they improve your game bla bla bla " Oh shut it!! U know u hate em..stop being fake ! Yes i lost to many pushers b4 but now i getting better at beating them I LOVE BEATING THESE OLD FART PUSHERS STOP BEING A NICE GUY
Ian, thank you for this incredibly informative series. It really hit home for me that for many of us that love the game and watch our ATP heroes, trying to emulate their strokes and practicing repeatedly to groove our style, tennis does NOT award style points! My biggest frustration with playing the pusher type player is that they look so awkward and yet still keep getting the ball back to places that make me feel awkward. As a player who has pretty good mobility still and uses that to get to balls that others my age ( 62 ) might not get to and hit winners, watching an opponent make ungainly shots and lob me perfectly offends my own sense of what should be happening. We all need to look at the "pusher" player in this series with respect for his shot making ability and movement - not how he looks while doing it. Nor should we assume that just because his strokes and grip are not traditionally stylish, or "correct technique", he doesn't work hard in practicing to improve his game. Nobody gets to be as consistent and effective at winning matches like him without a lot of practice. Many of us came to tennis later in life and did not have the benefit of good coaching as junior players to ground solid technique. We all have bad habits, and stylish shots that hit the net or are outside the court more than half the time are not going to win matches, no matter how smooth and stylish they look. If more of us took Ian's advice and videotaped ourselves in matches we'd likely be shocked that we aren't as stylish and our shots are not as hard or as pretty as we think they are. It's not hard to do and is a real eye opener.
One thing I noticed with your analysis is your constant suggestion of avoiding offensive DTL BH shots at all costs. I am sorry for sounding blunt, but I think you are projecting your own difficulty in playing DTL BH. DTL BH is not the easiest shot in the game but it's far from something being difficult and to be avoided at all costs. And rest of arguments of leaving the court open and yourself vulnerable doesn't stand because offensive DTL BH usually makes opponent to hit FH on the run and unless you are a high level player, CC FH on the run is way less percentage shot than DTL BH.
What? At 9:50 in this video I complimented him on a down the line backhand. Here's a whole video dedicated to hitting down the line. ruclips.net/video/STKYHPfrtLg/видео.html
Ian - I didn't realise it, but a player I have been beaten by for the last five years is totally a "pusher". I am pleased to advise in the last week or two, I have massively improved against him. This is *completely* down to your advice her and the other tactical advice on your channel that I have been watching for the last month or so. PLEASE keep up the great work. It's a fantastic resource and I have learned so much.
Hey, i played a shorter guy once, he is this kind of player. He went about 0-3 up before i changed tact and crushed him. Unfortunately for him, i learned to drop him then lob him straight away next shot - very simple tactic, litetally and metaphorically went straight over his head, time and again. I can play a bit like them too, which worked against them. Its about stubborness and fight. I learned how to play this way when i came up against technically and powerfully better players. I had to survive somehow, but didnt have their skill level. I tend not to play this way now, but i like playing pushers in a different way to hard hitters. I love big hitting and feeding off of pace, kind of a mutual respect and all out feel good power tennis kind of thing, but when i play a pusher, i love to say: hey, you think youre annoying to play against? You aint seen nothing yet! And i like giving them a taste of their own, but worse. It feels good to get revenge on these annoying opponents, though i used to be more like them, its much more enjoyable to play purer tennis with another clean hitter. I can lose to a clean hitter and be like kudos! But to lose to someone who seems to be on the ropes every round is demoralising!
FYI, I really love the direction of your channel as of late. I think you've found a nice niche with this kind of analysis. I can find 100 people on RUclips showing me how to hit my groundstrokes, but almost none that do what you're doing now. And you do it well. Thank you.
I'm an amateur player and I recorded myself playing for the first time recently. I also recently realised that I'm full of crap.
What do you use to record yourself and do you attach it to the fence somehow?
The camera doesn't lie. Don't despair, now you know what to fix.
Ha ha ha! **Loved** your comment (but alas could only hit 'like'). Kinda makes you wonder how often the same is true of Life's other little instances. Good thing we don't wear body cams. Your humility and ego strength is much appreciated. Good on ya!
Just played a pusher and had this video in my mind for the whole match. Took 4 games to get into a groove, opponent was so similar to the videos, I'm not up to tennis troll's standard but needed to find a way to win. Used drop shots, deep heavy topspin and looking for high percentage winners. Always looking to get to mid court for winners.
One thing missing from the video series is how difficult it is to hit good techniques against the junk balls.
Comfortable win in the end but definitely thanks to this series
Woa nice display great job man that means you have good solid fundamentals
Truly appreciate you calling out all the "professional" club players who think their level is way higher than it is. Im always amazed at how slow tennis at my club appears when I am simply watching others play. Getting on the court quickly changes the perspective and suddenly the shots seem faster and the court seems larger on my side and smaller on the opponent's side lol.
Yes! Guys at my level seem from off court like they're moving under water, then they're The Flash when across the net.
Tennistroll has great technique. He would be a great hitting partner, his footwork is an indication he is a higher level player.
When you meet a pusher, you judge their technique and then are upset when you couldn’t beat them. They take you apart mentally. You start to lose confidence in all your swings because you feel like you need to keep hitting winners. You lose by your own errors.
@@00Pati agreed
Ian dropping truth bombs on all the comment section pros at 10:39 😂👏👏👏
Yeah, well this is after Ian referred to Troll as a “3.5+” in a previous vid. So, he’s as guilty as the rest of you are.
Only 7k away from the goal! Getting closer! Loved at 10:39 telling people to record themself. I think everyone should see themself play at least once. Gives a very good reality check.
Sometimes a painful one but essential if you want to improve you tennis.
@@Ihasfinger911 most think they are Roger or Serena just out of shape😂
Lost to a pusher during my highschool tryouts I’ll definitely try this during my rematch challenge match
did u win :)
@@albertzheng182 no though the video helped me out greatly I lost 6-8 opposed to 1-8
Very good analysis. Really need to trust your shots against a pusher. Dont become a dink for dink play.
10:40 , "If you think this is slow, you've probably never recorded yourself." Totally guilty of this until I started recording myself
Rather not record myself because on court id like to feel like i am a young god at 55 years old😎
@@adlib8096 I can promise you that recording yourself doesn't change that feeling, I have first hand experience :)
Recording ourselves is the only way to really improve our game ... it helps our brain clicks on the true 'you' and not on the 'imaginary' ...
Great analysis. Your technical tools are perfect for being able to accurately communicate these concepts. Good work. Also, your comment about ball speed on videos is spot on. I would estimate that video slows down the ball by at least 30% or more. This probably has something to do with the eye's lack of proper 3d depth perception on a video.
You’re dead right about people who are ragging on these players have never watched themselves on video. I was staggered when I realised just how slow I was playing tennis. My whole demeanour, approach and technique were nothing like my mental perception.
Recording myself was really informative and very humbling. I would never publish it online because I look ridiculous compared to how I feel on the court.
You are right that ppl don't watch themselves. However, they watch ppl they play against. "Pusher" player has atrocious movement on the court and tennis troll managed to get past him only a couple of time for 2 sets. If that's not enough indication for you that tennis troll shots are slow and totally lack any penetration strength, then I don't know what else is.
Haha. I still remember how much i got shocked when I recorded my playing for the first time. I thought i was sprinting, but the man in the video was walking. My laser-straight winning shot was a slow floating knuckle ball.
Players at my level often struggle with my serve, they think it's quite fast. I thought I was at 110mph+. Played a tournament where they offered recording your game with automatic statistics... My hardest serve all game was 100mph, my regular "hard" serve is 90mph... Also it really looks ungainly. :-D
@@Nabend1402 100mph? I'm jealous.
I play like the pusher. This guy is my idol, he’s great at it
He's one of the best I've seen on RUclips!
Most of us play in same way when we play a match
I watched this video. The pusher won the match in 2 sets. Something like 6 - 1 , 6 - 4 if I remember correctly. I felt his frustration. He was repeatedly lured to the net with drop shots then lobbed to death. The pusher was uncannily accurate. Agree with Ian, definitely one of the best pushers I've ever seen.
@@dropshot8840 that was a different match, he wasn't playing tennis troll.
@@prakashbaskar4382 lol not unless I'm losing
I feel like my pride is at stake if someone sees me get beaten by someone with awful technique. then i realized no one was watching and no one cares. my strategy: practice my serve so much that poor technique can't return it.
I think I played a type PUSHER some time ago in amateur tennis.. level would be something like 4 ish I think.
My Opponent was less good than this pusher in these videos but it's interesting that at the time I didn't think of this concept of the pusher, and just found myself now realizing that during points I had exactly that feeling that I understand now as concept , playing and keep seeing balls coming back with backspin.. :)
Can I share my video? I only have a set that I played with him and that is the set that I managed to play better and beat him, but in the end I lost in decisive set(2-1) with 6-4.
Sure thing, upload it!
You don't have the end card in part 2 for this part 3 video (had to search it up which I did XD) but probably results in lower watch time then you deserve
Everyone who says that there are no pros who play like a pusher. The biggest example is Gilles Simon. He almost never goes for a winner and had years of succes with keeping his unforced errors very low
Who messed up the length of the bars at 10:30?
the percentages at levels 3.0, 3.5, 4.5 doesn't fit.
Time to smash the editor on the tennis court :)
I noticed that too
I feel like this is going to help the pusher a lot more. We’re in trouble haha.
Agree with John Forde, just lost a game this week to a pusher. This video would be helpful kkkkk
But one thing with all these items is : patience... if you rush to finish a point you might miss (my case most of the time 😪)
Nice video BTW
A pusher once told me the secret of beating players like him, and it's compatible with what you've got here. He said: mix it up. Yes, you've got to do some solid rally work to get the point going and get the short ball. But then, if you attack every short ball the same way, the pusher will be ready to neutralise it. Yet if sometimes you hit deep topspin, sometimes you do a biting slice, sometimes you drop shot, sometimes you even do a chipped angle ... then the pusher doesn't know what way they're going to have to run, so their timing gets messed up. And then they get scared of hitting short, so they start going for lower percentage shots and making mistakes.
For those who say a player with good technique would just smash a pusher off the court, one of the most useful pieces of online tennis advice I've ever found is that if you or I (or a pusher) played a set against Federer, he wouldn't be cracking 100mph forehands onto the lines. Because even he might have his timing go slightly off and start missing a run. He would play well within himself, keeping a high margin of error while applying just enough pressure to open up lots of gaps and force errors.
marco76uk1 Yup. For professionals, they won’t make each other uncomfortable unless they attack because they’re all so good offensively and defensively. But if someone like Nadal was against me and played his regular game, he might lose 2-3 points off of errors or double faults. So if he was trying to beat me while minimizing the points he loses, he’d just play heavy spin and move me around and force me to attack him. Chances are, I won’t come up with big enough shots to really hurt him, and he won’t make errors. As for me, my strategy against him would be serve as big as possible and attack whenever possible to just try and extract a couple of errors or even a winner and win a few points.
These videos changed my attitude in how I approach these players. I used to be in the "disrespect them" crowd. Now I view them as just another challenge to solve and try to keep my ego out of it.
So many of us spent years developing our shots. We had injuries, practiced for hours and days on end. When I see a pusher hitting absolute trash backhands, it's infuriating that he can get away with his lack of commitment to work. Not to say you can't win with craftiness and upsetting your opponent. I'm sure he does. But if you can find his weakness and pound away at that lack of hard work, it's the most satisfying thing in the game....
Shout out to this other channel for letting us make a video on it so now like our video to show appreciation for them lmao nice 👍
I was about to say the same thing. Tennis troll was only playing 2 dimensions of tennis, height and width. The pusher wasn’t uncomfortable. If he changed the depth and time given to his opponent, there would be more success. Easier said then done, and I still don’t like playing pushers.
Great stuff Ian!! 2 Side questions,
1) what is your preferred racquet?
2)Would you consider doing racquet review videos?
What was that lyric from that Steppenwolf song in the 60's? "G-damn the pusher man!" ;-) Who'da thunk it would apply in tennis as well in 2020! Keep the analysis coming!
Ian, I've had a great time watching these 3 videos. Can you make a Part 4 video on how the most annoying player can improve and become even better at annoying his opponents? I must admit that I'm flirting with the "dark side" as I've started incorporating some of his techniques into my game and at my level it's had some rather promising results. 😉
Former 6.5 player here. Pushers like this can make you look like a rock star. You have to play within yourself and take over the point. My play is always approach strong and shorten the point. The key is to put them on defense with your approach. You'll get an easy volley or a defensive lob that you can finish the point with. Assuming you can volley and smash. Cheers..... Nice forehand volley tennistroll. Edberg would be proud.
when you watch essential tennis: *IQ GOING UP*
when you watch essential tennis but you're a complete beginner: *I like the content*
I can appreciate the comment when people are talking about "patty cake tennis". People don't realize what the camera takes off the ball. If you get the chance to watch a professional tennis match - you better not blink or you'll miss a serve that you would normally see very well on TV. Those guys HIT THE BALL.
I appreciate vulnerability.
Period.
Thanks for bearing your tennis soul.
Great vid man, most of the people here in the comments are below or same level of these players making excellent for our improvement.
Haha now you threw the dice about drop shots, you’ll have to tell us how to counter players good at. In another troll’s video it shows that green shirt is pretty good at drops.
I started playing tennis when i was 13 and i am now 62. I reached a 5.0 level for a short time. When i was in my early 30`s and playing around a 4.5 level i played someone like MEP and he cleaned my clock 6-1, 6-1. It was a humbling experience the continuous dinks, drop shots and lobs completely baffled me; i was so used to playing other players like myself.Would love to one day play the real MEP and now that i no longer have the stamina i bet it would be another drubbing.
I'm a counterpuncher and have problems with this type of player too. We both end up playing push tennis. It's exhausting ...!
I would like to add that I LOVE playing this player- I have a few regular players that are pushers and I thrive on playing matches with them because they certainly keep me honest and make me earn every point. This is great- I beat some of them sometimes, but it is a challenge, and always when I come back to other regular players I go against I am sharper after competing against the PUSHER.
Hi! What about if you are the defensive player / pusher? Can you run a series on how to beat Tennis Troll, basically flip the script? Loving you're videos and I've already been implementing some high % tactics. 😀
Beating Tennis Troll would be a challenge. He has all the tools to beat a pusher except for an aggressive overhead. Troll moves well and seems to have good stamina, gets the ball back in play frequently, can hit topspin and hit angled shots. His backhand is not a weakness and can volley well. Most pushers can not hit aggressive passing shots as this defensive player does. Troll consistently gets his overhead back in play, so it is not a real weakness, he just doesn't punish the defensive player on short lobs. To beat troll you would have to use the same strategy you use now, keep getting the ball back, and move Troll around until he gets impatient and tries to force a winner.
Cash Mason Yeah it’s tough. His angled backhand is actually incredible. But his forehand isn’t anything special and can break down, so it might even be good to keep it on the forehand side. Sure it has a bit more pace but the backhand angle pulls you off court so that’s even worse for a pusher. Be ready to run and just try to keep every ball deep. Also if you can, mix up the spins a little. Throw slices and lobs to make sure he has to hit low and high and don’t let him get any rhythm. You’re gonna have to get a guy like him into a bad mental state where they start making a ton of mistakes and playing really passive. You can also do the combo where you draw him to net then lob. He doesn’t seem super comfortable up there.
How do you beat someone that hits and runs like this, but also does moonballs and other high, off pace shots with a lot of spin? I played someone like that and he was also a competent volleyer and would rip winners off of weak balls from me. So he'd go from dinks and moonballs to crushing the ball. Plus he'd run side to side like this guy.
Tennis troll is self taught I believe. Perhaps his lack of experience kept him from seeing what you see. Love that you have “pivoted” to provide two channels for both match play and instruction.
Agree with bringing him to the net. If a pusher consistently beats you from the net, you don't call him a pusher anymore, you call him McEnroe.
Boris Becker...short, low slice down the middle...plays the net...pass me if you can. Great set of videos!
Ian a question about something you hinted at in this video, and spoke about in different issues related to heavy topspin....you talked about LATERAL players, those who love to go side-to-side. I had a coach tell me years ago if players love to go side-to-side, they tend not to like to come forward (you mentioned that), nor do they tend to like to handle high, heavy balls inside of them (down the middle). They tend to move left to right (or vice versa) but not do a traditional 'backstep' when jammed....would you recommend hitting in their bodies regularly during the neutral positions to set up the shorter balls?
Just played a pusher tonight, really helped, yes, respect to my own problem
I would play very-very high balls to the left side of the "ANNOYING Opponent" and go to the net.
Hey, I’m playing ITF junior ranked player and I’m 14 turning 15 right now, training and thanks so much for this video it showed a lot of flaws of mine. But the thing is would these strategies work with players who have good technique and good heavy neutral shots, not great aggressive shots and net play but great movement and heavy shots. Because I’m playing with good ITF players and I know from experience serve and volley works and drop shots do. Sometimes if I’m not too tight my forehand can create enough damage. But usually the high percentage and strong shots pattern never works for me. I’m not sure exactly how to play them when my forehand isn’t at its best stage
1. Use the drop shot
2. Hit safe patterns with strong swings
3. Approach the net effectively (down the line)
Thanks, Ian. With this pusher would it be a good idea to keep your shots more down the middle to take away his angle passing shots? Also, when approaching the net hit down the middle slices to again make the passing shots more difficult?
Awesome. I like how you gave troll a game plan based on his specific skill set. I wouldnt even know how to approach holding the grip troll uses lol. Probably would use a forehand slice and hold back for a lob.👍🏽
I hate slicer players. Do they actually think they are going to progress. I imagine them not making it past 4.0 imo i think part of qualifying to 4.5 is being able to beat slicers/pushers. Good vid good tips!
I would bet on option two all day for a win. Option one only works with the right timing of the dropshot, receiving a short ball after your shot went deep in the court of your opponent pushing him back, Option three question yourself are you able to hit a solid aprouch with enough pressure... if you trouble with pushers you probably don't. Use option 2 as a basic strategy mix it up with one or three if you have that specific skill set. I would stick with option 2 for 80 percent of the points only 20 percent for the other two. Drop shotting all the times makes me lose my rythm quick. All 3 have some technical demands that you have to master. Can you play solid topspin shot deep in the court. How good do you know yourself really as a player, like Ian says did you ever video yourself playing a match. For most it is a hard reality check every time they see themselves. The first time can be shocking. Your ego must be able to cope with the visual information. These guys are reasonably good amateur level players also for European standards this is the avarage level most play at.
I am sorry but this "analysis" was totally lame. You didn't notice one very obvious thing. Pusher's retrieving of balls wide on his backhand is really, really bad. All one needs to beat him is to hit short very angled cross court forehands. And they don't need any pace, like typical tennis troll shots. Literally over and over again. It's that simple.
Me: about to joke comment "just use drop shot and move them around".
Video: 1st tip: drop shot.
Me: give up joking.
I read the comments that blame pushers on focusing on winning rather than good technique. I guess I was a pusher. But I wasn't honestly trying to win. I focused on always getting the ball back. I felt that hitting long or hitting into the net was a horrible mistake. My usual partner (my husband) always rated the quality of our games or practice sessions by how many balls we could hit back and forth before missing. Our local pro always wanted us to be practice partners for her students because we could keep the ball in play. We had horrible technique, but didn't realize it.
I can see how Tennis Troll is a 4.5 but it doesn't look like that with The Pusher. The Pusher doesn't have a proper serve that you can expect from that level and it seems like he is only capable of hitting backspin strokes paired with undeveloped foot work.
I find these videos super interesting, but I really wish you'd stop with all the popups encouraging me to subscribe, turn on notifications, etc. It's really overbearing and makes it feel like you're trying to sell me something in a really slimy way. I know the reminders really help, and I could stomach one at the beginning of the video. Let the content speak for itself, please
Today is May the 19th, 2021 and now we know, as a fact, that those tactics actually work, as Ian was able to beat the "Green Shirt Guy" with certain ease :-)
Ian I got to thank you man! I was down 1-3 15-40 tonight against a pusher and I remembered this video and try bringing him in. Within two points he was saying 'I don't know why I try to volley' and I ended up clinching it 6-4. Thanks mate!
As a Pusher myself, I gotta agree Ian, the deep, heavy ball always causes me problems. It’s hard to do much with those. I can’t chop it, angle it or lob it...and those 3 returns are The Holy Trinity of a Pusher’s Arsenal.
I feel completely comfortable at the net and relish chasing drop shots and angling them sharply back as a drop shot return, but I am a weird kind of Pusher.
I just try to always win my serve and focus on getting just 1 break.
If everyone here just listens and follows your advice, guys like me will be in trouble.
Great stuff Ian...I think this may be your best 3 video series ever and your stuff always is helpful.
Tim
Someone's excited in that thumbnail 😂
😀
My challenge is a slicer that I play every Friday and he approaches net whenever he can. He has developed amazing volley accuracy at the net now. He is the Bane of my existence LOL. I feel like affective lobs are my only defense.
I thnik this is NOT a great pusher.. he cant really run. He just has great touch and so he is a great slicer, lobber and drop shooter. Common thing with a pusher is that he wins with yout mistakes. Nevertheless the tactics showed by Ian is good but in my oppinion you cant beat a good pusher if you are not a complete player in terms o techniq. You have to be able to play deadly consistent groundstrokes and then finish the ball to the net in even more solid voleys and overheads.. often 2 or 3 in a row. A club player usually cant do this.
Troll did several things very well at least in the points that were shown: #1 did a great job of hitting low balls consistently. #2 great job of isolating his strengths (backhands and mid court shots) to opponents weaknesses (backhand). The one thing Troll should have done is to take advantage of his damaging shots. In many points, he hits a deep shot into a corner from a position inside the baseline and then retreats. Opponent floats a deep return, recovers his position and gets back to neutral. In those points, he's missing the opportunity to take 1 step in and take the ball early and stay ahead in the point.
Tennis Troll did a really good job hitting angles off the shallower balls the pusher hit. How would you, Ian, defeat a pusher who can keep the ball deep and high?
I love destroying this kind of Players and when i do i dont even show any mercy mainly it's because this type of play disguise me😅
4. Teach him beautiful shots. My pusher teammate started his new technique about a year ago and instantly stopped winning. But he became a decent partner in doubles.
I say also be aggressive on your serve to these pushers. I hit a big serve and usually I can get a pusher to give me back a weak return on a hard hit serve. I think my serve is around 100mph currently. Also come into the net on serve and finish the point.
Thank you, Ian for your tactics analyse. As I'm one of a pusher. I know to be more annoying. Ha ha ha.
I don't play junk ball tennis however, when my opponent gets in to a consistent grove against top spin shots I throw in a few junk balls to vary the pace.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
At our club we have some tournaments were we play 4 games. i lost against a pusher 0:4 still managed somehow to grt on rank 3 overall. i just lost mental.
Add tools to get better. It's fun and effective. Put a little 'pusher' in your game.
Though Tennis Troll hit a strong shot when he approached the net, how close should he/anyone get to the net given the hacker or pusher would likely go for a lob? Secondly, it appeared to me the better the angle Tennis Troll hit the weaker or more behind in the point the hacker became....your thoughts on that type of strategy?
No disrespect to them I call them bottom feeders, your game has to be very consistent and hit those angles, first serves, I play a guy that hes a great lobber so volley isn't very suitable even after a good serve since he'll answer it with a lobb.
It’s very important to have a weapon in men’s tennis, very good at one thing is better than decent on everything. Tennis troll seems ok on every shots but he doesn’t really have a weapon so that’s probably why he is losing. I would work on my serves I know it’s all about the serves and forehand in men’s tennis
Excellent breakdown! Time to put this into practice 👍. Btw, the more I watch these strategy breakdowns, the more tennis is starting to look like chess.... Except that you're playing chess while running at full tilt all around the court.
This is GOLD Ian! Thank you! Pushers are my nightmare. Ja JA Can't wait for Covid Quarantine to finish and try this. By the way, exellent idea to analize tennis matches like the ones that most of us the mortals play. Keep it up
How about reversing the roles here. It might be useful to have a video showing how you can use pusher tactics to beat 'better' players. This might be for situations where your normal game just isn't cutting it and you need a plan B that might frustrate the opponent enough to knock him off his game. More tools in the tool chest to use when necessary...
Just a thought.
I particularly like the high looping shot to a corner tactic to get a short, weak ball to put away, by the way...
read the book winning ugly, great read by ex pro, Brad Gilbert.
If the “better player” have good drop shots, net game and solid drive shots; pushing wouldn’t do any good
@@atrem7942 just saw this at the bookstore and read through most of it. very good insights.
@@atrem7942 Actually, I have heard the audio book... It is a very good book..
@maccajoe On top of that there is 1st also my pride. Sorry I cannot just push the ball back like this guy. I would feel ashamed beyond limits. And 2nd I want to have fun. And I don't have fun pushing balls back to the opponent. For that I might as well do anything else and not waste my time on court. Sure, I lose to all these pushers all the time, but if you told anybody your high rank, and then they see you playing like the pusher in this vid, they might die from laughter. There is more fun in losing while trying your best at actually winning than winning while just waiting for your opponent to make an error.
How do u know it’s a pusher I’m still a beginner and about to play my first tournament
how do you feel approaching the net with a shot that isnt very deep? I've found that hitting deep approaches leaves me susceptible to lobs, whereas shorter balls dont. But if i hit a deep ball right at them, its hard to hit a lob bc they have to run out of the way.
left handed nightmare!!!, I hated those players...
The last pusher I met I destroyed so much that he eventually withdrew from the tournament.😅
Hit big serves pushers cant handle big serves. Move them around with every short they run out of steam close up at the net. He could have hit more drop shots you are right, esp when the guy was way behind the baseline, no way he'd get to the net.
What happen if my opponent is very good to make the ball land close to the base line.(he has no spin) I hit the ball with spin and power and he hits a high without spin again. What should I do to win over him?
When you say they are both 4.5 do you mean 4.0? Tbh it looks like 3.5 to me
Great vid. I usually lose to these guys, and never knew why. The rare times I win, I don’t even know why or what worked, and then lose in a rematch. Thanks for giving us a tangible strategy.
One point that was not addressed was the pressure on the serve. It is clearly seen that the serve is very light, and it is not noticed that it is pressed and received almost in the service box. Maybe it could be one more tool. Regards
I play in high school and a lot of people play like that and it’s really annoying and frustrating!
What baffles me every time I play a pusher is how in the world they play with such poor technique but their shots always stay in the court. They defy the laws of physics 😁
" be thankful for puahers because they improve your game bla bla bla "
Oh shut it!! U know u hate em..stop being fake !
Yes i lost to many pushers b4 but now i getting better at beating them
I LOVE BEATING THESE OLD FART PUSHERS
STOP BEING A NICE GUY
😆
surprised the throw the banana peel trick wasn't mentioned
😆
This should be called TCOB vs. a Pusher Player.
Your finger replay skills are low. You need ze lessons
i think these patterns of play would also apply to players that outplay themselves.
yeah..drop shots..can drive them crazy..
What do I about the same type of opponent, who is also excellent at the net and has incredible speed
Ian, thank you for this incredibly informative series. It really hit home for me that for many of us that love the game and watch our ATP heroes, trying to emulate their strokes and practicing repeatedly to groove our style, tennis does NOT award style points! My biggest frustration with playing the pusher type player is that they look so awkward and yet still keep getting the ball back to places that make me feel awkward.
As a player who has pretty good mobility still and uses that to get to balls that others my age ( 62 ) might not get to and hit winners, watching an opponent make ungainly shots and lob me perfectly offends my own sense of what should be happening. We all need to look at the "pusher" player in this series with respect for his shot making ability and movement - not how he looks while doing it. Nor should we assume that just because his strokes and grip are not traditionally stylish, or "correct technique", he doesn't work hard in practicing to improve his game. Nobody gets to be as consistent and effective at winning matches like him without a lot of practice. Many of us came to tennis later in life and did not have the benefit of good coaching as junior players to ground solid technique. We all have bad habits, and stylish shots that hit the net or are outside the court more than half the time are not going to win matches, no matter how smooth and stylish they look.
If more of us took Ian's advice and videotaped ourselves in matches we'd likely be shocked that we aren't as stylish and our shots are not as hard or as pretty as we think they are. It's not hard to do and is a real eye opener.
i played like a pusher, until everybody got mad at me
Haha in the thumbnail Ian looks like a child who has just found out that his parents brought candy😂
😆 Truth!
One thing I noticed with your analysis is your constant suggestion of avoiding offensive DTL BH shots at all costs. I am sorry for sounding blunt, but I think you are projecting your own difficulty in playing DTL BH. DTL BH is not the easiest shot in the game but it's far from something being difficult and to be avoided at all costs. And rest of arguments of leaving the court open and yourself vulnerable doesn't stand because offensive DTL BH usually makes opponent to hit FH on the run and unless you are a high level player, CC FH on the run is way less percentage shot than DTL BH.
What? At 9:50 in this video I complimented him on a down the line backhand. Here's a whole video dedicated to hitting down the line. ruclips.net/video/STKYHPfrtLg/видео.html
Ian - I didn't realise it, but a player I have been beaten by for the last five years is totally a "pusher".
I am pleased to advise in the last week or two, I have massively improved against him. This is *completely* down to your advice her and the other tactical advice on your channel that I have been watching for the last month or so. PLEASE keep up the great work. It's a fantastic resource and I have learned so much.
YES! So happy to read that, Mitch! Thanks for the positive report!
did tennistroll reveal the final score of this excellent match? it seems close
Hey, i played a shorter guy once, he is this kind of player. He went about 0-3 up before i changed tact and crushed him. Unfortunately for him, i learned to drop him then lob him straight away next shot - very simple tactic, litetally and metaphorically went straight over his head, time and again. I can play a bit like them too, which worked against them. Its about stubborness and fight. I learned how to play this way when i came up against technically and powerfully better players. I had to survive somehow, but didnt have their skill level. I tend not to play this way now, but i like playing pushers in a different way to hard hitters. I love big hitting and feeding off of pace, kind of a mutual respect and all out feel good power tennis kind of thing, but when i play a pusher, i love to say: hey, you think youre annoying to play against? You aint seen nothing yet! And i like giving them a taste of their own, but worse. It feels good to get revenge on these annoying opponents, though i used to be more like them, its much more enjoyable to play purer tennis with another clean hitter. I can lose to a clean hitter and be like kudos! But to lose to someone who seems to be on the ropes every round is demoralising!
Great win!
I dont even play tennis but I suscribed anyway. Amazingly well explained
🙏