Thanks so much - even with my basic understanding of acoustics, I appreciate the timing issues etc. I was about to purchase a very good condition pair of used ones.
Just remember guys Danny is running a business, he isn't an impartial speaker reviewer, I'm not saying he is a bad person, or that he is misleading you, I don't believe that he is, but he does believe speakers should sound, and measure a particular way, remember that's what your buying into, his audio philosophy, as long as you know that. Personally I think if you buy this kit your speaker isn't a B&W speaker anymore, you've converted it into something else, a 'Danny speaker' I guess, just remember to trust your ears first and foremost when auditioning a speaker, and the key word there is 'auditioning', no amount of measurement graphs is going to tell you whether you like it or not, only your ears can do that, and also don't forget that your room will have the biggest effect on your speakers sound, people really underestimate this, audition, audition, audition, get it right first time, and trust yourself, if you like it that's all that matters, then you won't need to fantasy about tearing your speaker apart to 'fix' it.
that's all fine but not when he himself is criticising the manufacturers like they don't know how their speakers measure. Btw sine wave is also my favourite genre of music. eh not . Measurements are a guide and the most important thing to note is that how the production speaker sounds from any brand is very deliberate by the manufacturer. Otherwise just buy a custom speaker by this dude.
… and B&W is not running a for-profit-business? Speakers are built at a price point. The 606 are not creme de la creme in any aspect. So what makes you think they can’t be bettered? And what makes you think Danny doesn’t know what he’s talking about? Are you sure he’s only plotting lines on a sheet without ever listening to it? Your claims walk a fine line between general truths and smearing of a credible builder.
Robert, you are missing the point. People send their speakers to Danny because they paid little for it and want it to sound better for a few dollars more, never because they are purists. Just like cars, some people want all the parts to remain original, weather it gets 10 miles to a gallon and 0 to 60 in 30 seconds. Personally I am in favor of my B&W 606 sounding like a 702 after a $200 after market upgrade. Danny is my Guy, and he should Never work for free.
@@denniswilliams3934 The thing is Danny isn't just enhancing what you already own like making a car go faster, he is completely changing the characteristics of the speakers sound, as you are probably already aware Danny loves a flat response, if you originally bought a set of speakers like the 606 because you liked how they sound, Danny's upgrade will not make your speaker sound like a 702, nothing like it, I'm not saying it won't be an upgrade, just be aware it won't be a B&W speaker anymore.
Superbly done! I wish that there was more reporting, like yours, on real product quality. Subjective reviews are obviously NOT enough. Keep up the good work and thank you.
@mkmkmk845 You call that math? That's not much math at all. It's a few easy to read graphs and verbal interpretations. These measurement graphs are a means to get us to even better music reproduction. Geez, I'm a musician first, and I appreciate any effort done to better serve the music.
@@robinkleinsteuber5217 can these graphs tell which stereo amp + speakers I should buy without listening to them in person if yes then this is the best video on RUclips for me.
Sounds like B&W needs to clean house. A thousand dollars is nothing to sneeze at for many of us. Appears like their concentrating on their high end more. They get more word of mouth on the more affordable lines. Great job really enjoyed seeing the proof of what many were saying. From what I understand 1st order isn't easy to pull off and it's not for everyone.
Hi GR-Research May we know ? Any Great Low Base 100uf Cap on market is very good for Low base Speaker use ! Can u recommend ! Pls advise can. Any 100uf Copper Foil cap u can recommend !.....................///
@@robinkleinsteuber5217 Agree 100%, the 606 S2 is $899, Paradigm sells the 200B which is Made in Canada for $999 a pair... If Paradigm can make enough money building them in the West, why can't B&W and many of these HIFI companies..... Greed.
@@robinkleinsteuber5217 Bowers and Wilkins DO sell and they are a premium brand.As for Mercs,i think they arent worth the money,not the new ones.I had one and the build quality was poor.I have a B&W speaker set and they are COOL sounding speakers!
Tweeter is easy to remove 😂🤦🏻♂️, The grille itself is just held on by magnetic force. You can easily lift it out of place. (One single edge of the grill has a little tab) Also, the laser etched metal circle just pops off after the grill is removed. A little force needed and it will pop of, exposing the screws for tweeter.
Some older B&W tweeters are mounted using a screw inside the cabinet. You just unscrew it, and pop it out. As you say, these are really easy to remove, so the comment about "throwing them out" if the tweeter fails is... funny, and misleading. A replacement tweeter is 90 USD from the B&W parts store. These speakers are a good example of "expensive" crossover components in a bad design. I've compared them to Revel M16 and the difference is night and day. The 606s sound overly (I mean really ear piercingly) bright, out of phase, and the sound stage is flat. It's a bit sad since B&W used to make good speakers, at least the 700 series and above (I'm talking 20+ years ago). Inexperienced listeners will probably prefer the "detailed" tweeter at first, and that's probably why they are designed this way.
Thanks very much Danny, I have a pair of 684 and the treble is terrible lol I have a hearing loss that starts at about 5500 hz (tinnitus) and your saying there is a big drop in the speakers response in that area, no wonders the BW are not a good match for me. I'm in a lot of facebook groups and just recently I came across 3 peoples who want to build super tweeters for their BW , looks like redesigning the tweeter would be a much better option. Thanks so much for explaining this.
Hi Danny, Thanks for settling this once and for all. Those who appear satisfied with this speaker have had to do some serious shifting around their rooms. Most seem to have had their rooms aucusticslly customised. I think the manufacture has shortchanged the customers with this speaker based on all the reviews I've seen and heard.
Talking absolute bollocks. These speakers are amazing especially for the cheaper end price. Best on the market for the money. If you get 2 sets and work them off the same amp they give out a lot of power I am more than happy.
Many thanks for the review and lab report on this speaker. I was about to get the other model up 706S2 but having research in YT, there were alot of mixed reviews on these B&Ws. many reviewers rave about this speakers even getting awards but I was skeptical and fortunately waited for the proper review as you did here, rally appreciate your work. Cheers.
Great video as always. Just a helpful addition to your video. The tweeter's beauty ring pops off exposing the mounting screws for the tweeter. No special tools required to remove it.
Danny I can really understand and appreciate your knowledge and your talent. All those 100 hours into thousands of knowing what each part will do and applying them as always thank you for sharing. I just wish main manufacturers we'll have a really decent entry-level speaker to show showcase the rest. can we have a sound demo before and after then again this is your Channel and you can run it anyway how you feel fit too Ride Easy
It would be neat if you could analyze some of the classic speakers from the 1970s such as the AR-3a, The Large Advent speaker, the JBL L100, The old KLH speakers, Rectilinear III, among others. I realize that these are probably not ones that you would make new crossovers for, but if you could confirm these speakers are performing like new, it would be interesting how the crossovers operate on them.
Now remember that you listen more to reflections from a speaker than onaxis. The average of the before measurements is ok horizontally. The tweeter is removed from the front by removing the grille, it loosens easily at the bottom first. Then remove the decoration ring as on the bass unit. The tweeter can now be removed by loosening the four machine screws. Remember that you can always ask an authorized dealer if you are in doubt about something another time. (Google translate)
Tell us about them! What is your placement in your room? Is the bass detailed and tight? What’s the soundstage and imaging like? Midrange? Treble? Fill us in!
i got my 606 s2 before the price increase for 600 at ABT and for the price they are AMAZING. I have the 705 s2s as well and for the money id recommend the 606s2s allll day
Ive got the 607 s2s proper premium speakers and one of the highest quality speakers in overall sound.Anyone who disses the brand like this nerd with his graph is a waste of space.
B&W may or may not be aware but that ”little bit of a proud area” might be the real reason they went for a lower electrical slope higher up in frequency instead of a steeper filter lower down. This mod might be tuned to a very well treated room, not emphasize as much of the wide dispersion and hot power response of the tweeter at lower frequencies.
Danny, are first order crossovers suitable for D'Appolito (MTM) driver configuration (in case when both driver types have a lot of range extention beyound crossover point) or the third order would still be better?
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Is this upgrade kit also suitable for the original B&W 606, not S2, logically it should as crossover reportedly was the only difference between these models?
When applying a bit of trial and error with a custom cross-over is there any reason you can't use cheap components like electrolitic caps and iron core inductors to get the values correct, then substitute in good components of the same value? Having a stockpile of sonicaps and erse indusctors when starting out is a bit pricey
I follow the drivers that others are using like Scan-Speak drivers and look or play spy for any info. If I'm trying to build a Wilson Watt killer, I have to use good parts because I want to be better or an improvement over them.
So with a simple 1st order tweeter cap reversing phase by 180° is that why i have found inside some simple crossovered speakers with the tweeter wired in reverse ?...positive x-over cable to negative tweeter tag & negative x-over cable to positive tweeter tag.....
One question, if I have electrolytic 4nf(micro farad) in tweeter crossover in series with tweeter, and replace with mkt/mkp 4.7nf(because i dont have 4nf) is there would be a problem in sound,phase shift,or something? Crossover contains one ferite/laminate core inductor 0.32mh on mid bass and 4nf on tweeter . This is satellite speakers, sub is class D powered
Would you reccomend this kit for the regular 606's? I know they changed the crossover for the S2, but I'd assume they used the same design, different filters?
Danny, I've watched a bunch of these upgrade videos and have learned a lot, but my question is this - when you give the price for upgrades at the end of the video, is that per SPEAKER, or is it per PAIR of speakers? I know which one I hope... lol. Just clarifying.
@@Zenos174 According from B&W; only differences between S1 and S2 is they updated the crossover and tweeter. But from all the reviews it seems the crossover is worse in the S2 / anniversary editions. Meanwhile I have 702s2 with HTM71s2 as my fronts.
B&W had that colored sound that is alleged to enhance or be better for vocal range. Flat is not good due to room differences. But audio is really not measured but enjoyed musically as surely measurements we HV are sorely lacking psychoaciustically. Case in point ate tubes which measure abysmally but sounds so much more realistic that any good recording uses it from it's source to the recording. Our ears are the most advanced acoustic tool we have, let's use that more. Only you have to train it by listening to actual instruments live.
Has anyone here done this mod ? It's a big change going from 1st to 2nd order. Would love it if an actual customer talked before and after. In particular, does speaker lose its detailed clarity and transparency that b&w known for?
I have these speakers and note that the plastic port and post component can be unscrewed and removed. Was it not possible to do this to get at the tweeter?
@@pizzaearthpancakesandother2549 ha, yeah the resale value isn't going to be great after all the recent negative RUclips reviews they've been getting. However, in practice they're not the car crash some are making them out to be. They're on the bright side but still fairly pleasant to listen to.
Hi GR-Research May we know ? Any Great Low Base 100uf Cap on market is very good for Low base Speaker use ! Can u recommend ! Pls advise can. Any 100uf Copper Foil cap u can recommend !............................../
Hi GR-Research May we know ? Any Great Low Base 100uf Cap on market is very good for Low base Speaker use ! Can u recommend ! Pls advise can. Any 100uf Copper Foil cap u can recommend !............................///
Interesting, 1st order x-over at this price level, less expensive design but trying to achieve better phase or group delay? Fewer components in the circuit? I used 3rd order back around 1980 when I wasn't tri-amping.
I was told the B&W 606 was an excellent speaker, but now I'm not so sure. I started to question other purchases and now am questioning the nature of reality itself.
I got some B&W 706s and they sound OK but lack "chuff" in the voice sound. The voice sounds "in the box" for that reason while the cymbal sound is strong. The graph @ 1:04 shows a dip @ 6 khz. Maybe they are the same speaker as the 706 but just in a less fancy box. My boxes are veneered with a great finish. They probably just rebuilt the 706 into cheaper wrap boxes (with the exact components) and called them 606. Trickle down. lol
@@roberthyde7102 You don't charge 900 of changing crossover order.Or do you think you can hear a difference in sound if you change the internal cables? Stupid marketing of this guy to take your money.
I’ve often wondered who actually designs speakers in each price range for B&W or any other company of similar notoriety. And then, who approves of it before putting it to market? Is it a different design and approval team with each price range and product series or how does that work?
Hi GR-Research May we know ? Any Great Low Base 100uf Cap on market is very good for Low base Speaker use ! Can u recommend ! Pls advise can. Any 100uf Copper Foil cap u can recommend !
I have watched a number of your video clips and am always surprised at the level of cheap parts used regardless of what the retail price point is, 500 bucks a pair or 15K a pair.
Are there ANY speakers that you like without a teardown and rebuild? I don’t like the idea of buying new speakers just to tear them apart and rebuild them. It may be fun for you, but there are those of us who’d rather not do that.
No it won't and I think that's the point , If you are happy with your purchase don't modify it . If you don't like them this is an option for people who aren't having fun when listening to them and like to mod .
@@noco-pf3vj Well all the B&W line so far have not been my taste either but some people love them. Overall more options are better than less options IMO.
"One thing Linkwitz said stuck with me. I'd asked him about measurements, and the often considerable difference between what's seen in measurements and what's actually heard in listening. 'What is important to the eye is not necessarily important to the ear,' he said. 'Why should it be? Nature makes sure each does its job and does its job perfectly. You get cues from the eye, but some things that look gross in the frequency response, the ear says, "I don't care".' "That from a guy who's more a scientist than an artist. Never forget those words when you look at measurements,
I realise that they are not B&W speakers anymore, but Danny is a means to get way more expensive sounding speakers, from cheap speakers. It seems that speaker manufacturers make the cheaper ones sound bad intentionally. The Nautilus demo on YT sounds heaps better than my B&W 706 speakers. My speakers are a bit foofy in the voice sound, not throaty enough! Yet the Nautilus have heaps of timbre in the voice sound. Nice and throaty, just how I like it. 😅
Hello Danny, Have you come across a pair of B&W DM7 Mk1 (the original version). I would like to add tube connectors to my pair, upgrade the crossover and remove the two fuses to tha pathways as well. I also like the feet that are on the bottom of the pedestal base. I look forward to your response.
It would really help if you recorded a before and after video for some of these upgrades. Lounge and rock song would be good... or some orchestra piece. If you have an chamber of some sort to take measurements... record song while there.
@@qddk9545 i listen through a set of s580 sennheiser 🎧 headphones. Some recordings on the internet are pretty good but an A B comparison if you show before and after at these gives you a apples-to-apples comparison. I have been able to hear side-by-side comparisons on the internet that are as good as going to hifi store.
@@franciscoortiz6980 It doesn´t matter. If that would work, you could buy a top of the line stereo set and re-record all your CD´s, and every decent system would sound like your high end system. It is sooo naive.
@@qddk9545 are you drunk ? What you typed does not make sense. I was talking about sound clips for before and after upgrade... and you somehow went to cd ripping???
I’m somewhat curious as to why audiophiles don’t just simply use professional studio monitors to listen to music. A good amplified monitor from Neumann, Genelec, ATC or other can beat any audiophile speaker when it comes to a flat frequency response. If a flat frequency response isn’t desirable for hifi, then, could they not just use some sort of equalizer to dial it in as they like? It’s just a question that I’ve been curious about.
@@dannyrichie9743 you may be right. I just feel every speaker needs to be played at a certain volume where things sound better than at lower volumes. For now, I’m satisfied with the Neumann KH310s but something seems to be missing 😓
7:08 love this channel. this guy has no filter, love it. but, seeing him wipe his nose all the time and then touch the client's speaker. i am getting freaked out watching. 7:32 and picking his ear and then touch the client's speaker.
You very rarely get to see what goes into a speakers workings. I was watching via subtitles I realised these are not B M W's as it stated as those boxes have no wheels.
I got 5.1 system 606 B&W on the front 607 B&W at rear the center B&W HTM-62 the Subwoofer is Klipsch the Amp Sony STR-DH770 and the sound of all this is Amazing, you can fix the sound in the EQ settings in the AMP. I would not change anything to my speakers because if i change something to my B&W They would not be B&W Anymore , i trust more in my ears than on the science in this case, but, Mr Dany should Build their own Brand, it would be interesting, of course count me as a customer, I am sound lover.
I don't know what it is about B&W speakers but they just don't do it for me. Heard some 804d's years ago and the salesman was raving about how great they were. I was thinking to myself are we listening to the same speakers? From memory they were connected to some McIntosh gear.
Aren't you worried about that rise in the 6-8khz range where most sibilance occurs? I'm real sensitive to it personally, I can take a hot mid range better than the place where the esses live. I much prefer AMT or planar tweeters, but they too can make my ears bleed with Sssssss. It's not a P or a T for me, but those esses will kill me every time. Anyway, I really like these videos showing the measurements, good stuff man. Cheers 🍻.
I think the 705 turned out better based on the on axis and of axis response. With this 606 it seems there is still small treble peak like you mentioned as well as extra off axis contribution in that 2.5k - 6k region
@@RennieAsh: No contest, the numbers don't lie. But I'm just wondering why he left that rise in the tweeter when it's in a fairly critical range, at least for me it is. Would a notch filter there break it elsewhere? I really don't know, that's why I ask questions. Cheers 🍻.
Actually that brightness where sibilance occurs is much lower in range. That type of issue is usually closer to the 2kHz region or lower. 6 to 10kHz is well into the upper harmonics, and like I said in the video, they tend to drop off in that range in the off axis.
@@dannyrichie9743: Not for me man. I mean absolutely no disrespect, but the bulk of what hurts my ears with Sssssss, is exactly 6.3 khz for both men and women speech. If I take 3-6 Db there it makes me want to take more elsewhere because that does not fix the entire problem, but that is exactly where the problem occurs 'strongest' for me! It is exactly 6.3 khz where the strongest sibilance occurs in every vocalist, every time, for me. Cheers 🍻.
I have a relatively modest budget and I am not what you'd call an audiophile....meaning I didn't understand more than half of what you said. I just know that I like what I hear. Is there a speaker you like that doesn't cost $10K?
The bump of woofer amplitude around 1kHz when tweeter is off is likely to be an artifact of crossover circuit with the tweeter cut off. The tweeter acoustic level is -15dB down around that frequency. No matter what the phase relationship is, the acoustic output of the tweeter cannot acoustically tone down the woofer by as much as 2 dB.
Absolutely the tweeter being out of phase is what is knocking down the woofer output. The circuits are parallel circuits and have no effect on one another.
@@dannyrichie9743 Oh, I was wrong. -15dB is about 1/6. 20*log(1-(1/6)) = -1.6. So about 1.6dB can be taken down down in the case of 180 degree phase difference.
When you compare these to the way Epos build their speakers it's like chalk and cheese. The Matrix series was good, i thought the 1600 was very neutral, but some of their latest offerings are built like budget Ikea furniture. I think they've worked out that yellow drivers and grey roll surrounds have a hypnotic effect on potential buyers.
Video Request: can you please do a video explaining why these giant hifi companies dont do this from the beginning. im fine with the cheap cost cutting. but stuff like phase irregularities and bad driver choices that have weird ringing and band-aids to fix them. these mega companies have to have the best measurement equipment in the world including anechoic chambers. how do they get away with this level of product?
I just got a pair and I suspected they were boosting somewhere in the upper mids and treble range, its a really shrill, fingers down a blackboard kind of sound. On certain recordings it sounds like it's clipping. Particularly bad with vinyl or vinyl DJ mixes, it's in the frequency range that blows up any surface noise and causes bad sibilance on vocals and snares, it's really not very nice. Only had them for 2 days but I can't live with this. Some stuff sounds really good, I appreciate why people like them but anything in that frequency range to me just sounds nasty, I need something more accurate. Great to hear that my ears weren't deceiving me, those are considerable boosts between 4-10k
I have seen both bad and good reviews on those speakers,I have never heard them, but I have own plenty of b&w and They have never disapoint. Right now i have the 702 s2 and i think They are incrediable sounding speakers,
@@DF-et4gs yes and whats bad about that, as long as you enjoy the music on your speakers it dosen’t really matter what other people say, its much better find out yourself, b&w is not for everyone, but they have that kind of signature sound that lets me enjoy the music, now 600 and 700 series is completly different, 700 series is much better in terms of details and clarity, and i listen to a couple of different speakers before i decide on 702 s2🤗
@@thereefaholic I bought 702 s2 not the signatures and I love them how well they play with clarity and details, and yes they are not bass heavy speakers by any means, but the bass that’s there is very good
I hadn't been a fan of teardowns that reveal cheap parts, but ones that make little or no audible difference to an audiophile, but I think the whole 600 line *IS* cheesy, in many ways. The corners B&W had cut to meet the line's price point, were evident. I had gone with Monitor Audio's Silver line instead, years ago, instead of the 683. MA Silvers are built better for under $2000 (but not always providing better sound than some others). I hadn't liked the 2.5 way woofer problems with the Silver 6. 2600 Hz crossover point was too high and I wished I had gone for the more expensive 3 way.
I saw a review of the signature series of this speaker not long ago and the YT reviewer thought it was a mess. After your review, I know why. It was out of phase at certain frequencies.
Hi GR-Research May we know ? Any Great Low Base 100uf Cap on market is very good for Low base Speaker use ! Can u recommend ! Pls advise can. Any 100uf Copper Foil cap u can recommend !.............................:x
Great video. I am always amazed at how poorly designed speakers are from even high end names. What were they thinking with that crossover design? They could have spent $150 more and made those things so much better and recoup the money
@@DF-et4gsyou got it RIGHT there. They can make a far better speaker, but they won't so the top tier remains what it is. A regular speaker well made, with a bloat load of esoteric BS.
You remind me of a Doctor lol . " Well ma'am/sir ---- sighs -- you're not gone like this . Your bmi is scary , thyroid not looking it's best , rbc is like of Dracula and estradiol is astronomical ,but I have a fix for this ... SoniCap "
It constantly surprises me that these big brand name speaker companies must not even run similar tests on their speakers before producing them. Do people not hear these issues? Danny makes this so clear that these “quality” speakers have significant issues. Thank God for Danny being able to offer corrective crossovers to fix these “quality” speakers.
Nowadays with high end audio equipment they to have compromised a lot with there lower range and grade speakers, thays in part due to the just being to some a high dollar speaker ,where in fact it is a bottom line comparison to the specialty lines a d the flagship lines that every audio nut wants , its all about different digits for different midgets. I like Danny fix and work the bugs out in speakers for customers that want the speaker to perform at its best , ot is fun ,interesting, and well buy a less expensive speaker system can bring a big joy to those that know what to do to tune them ,
All of the big names are mass production "made in China" speakers nowadays and they rely on their name and marketing (paid RUclips reviewers) to sell speakers. Do research on where they are made if you're shelling out substantial amounts of cash.
Speaker companies rely on the ignorance of the average consumer. Quality is hard to come by these days. It seems that they value their profit margins more than the ability to actually provide a decent speaker to the public!
Great sales pitch. New cross over $275.00 and in case I forget some no-res. Why are all speaker manufacturers not head hiring you to fix their problems.
I generally do not write comments on RUclips. This video made me do it. I have the B&W 606, 607, 603, HTM6 and M-1 Speakers. These speakers are simply amazing. All these measurements are simply pointless in the ears of the listener. I have 606 in my stereo listening room paired with a spectacular Denon stereo amp and an SVS subwoofer. The 606 is simply spectacular. Best musical speaker I have ever heard and I am an audiophile. Forget the mixed reviews, forget all the measurements; B&W 606 are simply awesome and amazingly fast and musical. Period
Just a small bit of criticism no insult or harm intended. I have watched IDK 40% of your video's. When you start talking about the test and show the graphs and talk about them its as if you were talking into a mirror or another sound engineer and they understand every thing you just said. I have tried to understand the graphs and what I am looking at or its like your taking to a classroom that has already went thru the first trimester of learning the ABC'S. I am a 42 year Boat Bike ATV powersports mechanic and last 12 shop owner and sometimes I have to dumb it down when explaining to my customers. To grow your channel lots of people need to understand what the heck your talking about because I would say like your customers 90% of youtube watchers love music and HT but not to tech savvy on the scientific part of it. Remember most of us you will need to explain like you would to a child just learning. a pencil or pointer while showing the graphs would be a great help.
I like my 606 2s a lot. They work fine with my old Sherwood receiver - high sensitivity helps there. I listen to classical 100% and the quality of the CDs is pretty high. My room is a good one - lots of soft stuff and a good size for the BWs. It would be fun to have GR fix my speakers up - if nothing else, I could see if my aging ears would be able to pick up the fine points. I'd like to try a GR DIY speaker system too. But guys....this site is not about to find a speaker that can't be improved with a little money sent to GR. I'm not throwing stones or doubting in anyway the skill & integrity coming from this site. But I am pointing out that in the real world there aren't a boatload of listeners that are going rip their speakers to shreds and put them back together with new parts. So I'll have to live with all of the weaknesses that I really don't notice and enjoy the music - and I won't need any repairs to do that.
Actually a LOT of people enjoy ripping their speakers apart and doing upgrades. And I cover one next week (video already shot) on a speaker that is great right out of the box that you don't need to do anything to. It is at a super high level from end to end, measures great, and is not real expensive. It will be out shortly.
If one does not notice any weaknesses in their spks, then dun touch em. Don’t fix it if it ain’t broken. I hv been in this dreaded hobby for 40 yrs now & hv listened to countless “modded” spks & so far hv never ever heard any “modded” spk sounding better than the stock ones….flat frequency response does not guarantee good sound. We don’t play our spks in anechoic chambers.
@@dannyrichie9743 No i am from Singapore. Over here we also have people who like to mod their speakers & so far i have not heard any modded spks that i really like.
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Thanks so much - even with my basic understanding of acoustics, I appreciate the timing issues etc. I was about to purchase a very good condition pair of used ones.
Just remember guys Danny is running a business, he isn't an impartial speaker reviewer, I'm not saying he is a bad person, or that he is misleading you, I don't believe that he is, but he does believe speakers should sound, and measure a particular way, remember that's what your buying into, his audio philosophy, as long as you know that. Personally I think if you buy this kit your speaker isn't a B&W speaker anymore, you've converted it into something else, a 'Danny speaker' I guess, just remember to trust your ears first and foremost when auditioning a speaker, and the key word there is 'auditioning', no amount of measurement graphs is going to tell you whether you like it or not, only your ears can do that, and also don't forget that your room will have the biggest effect on your speakers sound, people really underestimate this, audition, audition, audition, get it right first time, and trust yourself, if you like it that's all that matters, then you won't need to fantasy about tearing your speaker apart to 'fix' it.
Dude you are spot on
that's all fine but not when he himself is criticising the manufacturers like they don't know how their speakers measure. Btw sine wave is also my favourite genre of music. eh not . Measurements are a guide and the most important thing to note is that how the production speaker sounds from any brand is very deliberate by the manufacturer. Otherwise just buy a custom speaker by this dude.
… and B&W is not running a for-profit-business? Speakers are built at a price point. The 606 are not creme de la creme in any aspect. So what makes you think they can’t be bettered? And what makes you think Danny doesn’t know what he’s talking about? Are you sure he’s only plotting lines on a sheet without ever listening to it? Your claims walk a fine line between general truths and smearing of a credible builder.
Robert, you are missing the point.
People send their speakers to Danny because they paid little for it and want it to sound better for a few dollars more, never because they are purists. Just like cars, some people want all the parts to remain original, weather it gets 10 miles to a gallon and 0 to 60 in 30 seconds. Personally I am in favor of my B&W 606 sounding like a 702 after a $200 after market upgrade. Danny is my Guy, and he should Never work for free.
@@denniswilliams3934 The thing is Danny isn't just enhancing what you already own like making a car go faster, he is completely changing the characteristics of the speakers sound, as you are probably already aware Danny loves a flat response, if you originally bought a set of speakers like the 606 because you liked how they sound, Danny's upgrade will not make your speaker sound like a 702, nothing like it, I'm not saying it won't be an upgrade, just be aware it won't be a B&W speaker anymore.
HAYY ERRBODEE! Love it! Always get excited to see the charts before and after!
Anyone else get that too?
Absolutely awesome work! Thanks for sharing these projects this is very interesting stuff! Subbed!
Superbly done! I wish that there was more reporting, like yours, on real product quality. Subjective reviews are obviously NOT enough. Keep up the good work and thank you.
No not needed, we just want good music not math class.
@mkmkmk845 You call that math? That's not much math at all. It's a few easy to read graphs and verbal interpretations. These measurement graphs are a means to get us to even better music reproduction. Geez, I'm a musician first, and I appreciate any effort done to better serve the music.
@@robinkleinsteuber5217 can these graphs tell which stereo amp + speakers I should buy without listening to them in person if yes then this is the best video on RUclips for me.
Sounds like B&W needs to clean house. A thousand dollars is nothing to sneeze at for many of us. Appears like their concentrating on their high end more. They get more word of mouth on the more affordable lines. Great job really enjoyed seeing the proof of what many were saying. From what I understand 1st order isn't easy to pull off and it's not for everyone.
I'm looking at the Paradigm 200B, look good and Made in Canada
Hi GR-Research May we know ? Any Great Low Base 100uf Cap on market is very good for Low base Speaker use ! Can u recommend ! Pls advise can. Any 100uf Copper Foil cap u can recommend !.....................///
They seem to be hoping that the marque, like the Mercedes name in cars, will sell the product with no second thought.
@@robinkleinsteuber5217 Agree 100%, the 606 S2 is $899, Paradigm sells the 200B which is Made in Canada for $999 a pair...
If Paradigm can make enough money building them in the West, why can't B&W and many of these HIFI companies..... Greed.
@@robinkleinsteuber5217 Bowers and Wilkins DO sell and they are a premium brand.As for Mercs,i think they arent worth the money,not the new ones.I had one and the build quality was poor.I have a B&W speaker set and they are COOL sounding speakers!
Tweeter is easy to remove 😂🤦🏻♂️, The grille itself is just held on by magnetic force. You can easily lift it out of place. (One single edge of the grill has a little tab) Also, the laser etched metal circle just pops off after the grill is removed. A little force needed and it will pop of, exposing the screws for tweeter.
Some older B&W tweeters are mounted using a screw inside the cabinet. You just unscrew it, and pop it out. As you say, these are really easy to remove, so the comment about "throwing them out" if the tweeter fails is... funny, and misleading. A replacement tweeter is 90 USD from the B&W parts store.
These speakers are a good example of "expensive" crossover components in a bad design. I've compared them to Revel M16 and the difference is night and day. The 606s sound overly (I mean really ear piercingly) bright, out of phase, and the sound stage is flat. It's a bit sad since B&W used to make good speakers, at least the 700 series and above (I'm talking 20+ years ago). Inexperienced listeners will probably prefer the "detailed" tweeter at first, and that's probably why they are designed this way.
Thanks very much Danny, I have a pair of 684 and the treble is terrible lol I have a hearing loss that starts at about 5500 hz (tinnitus) and your saying there is a big drop in the speakers response in that area, no wonders the BW are not a good match for me. I'm in a lot of facebook groups and just recently I came across 3 peoples who want to build super tweeters for their BW , looks like redesigning the tweeter would be a much better option. Thanks so much for explaining this.
You could show it's not stressful on the tweeter by showing distortion levels of the final product and compare it with the before.
Hi Danny,
Thanks for settling this once and for all. Those who appear satisfied with this speaker have had to do some serious shifting around their rooms. Most seem to have had their rooms aucusticslly customised. I think the manufacture has shortchanged the customers with this speaker based on all the reviews I've seen and heard.
Talking absolute bollocks. These speakers are amazing especially for the cheaper end price. Best on the market for the money. If you get 2 sets and work them off the same amp they give out a lot of power I am more than happy.
Many thanks for the review and lab report on this speaker. I was about to get the other model up 706S2 but having research in YT, there were alot of mixed reviews on these B&Ws. many reviewers rave about this speakers even getting awards but I was skeptical and fortunately waited for the proper review as you did here, rally appreciate your work. Cheers.
i heard the 704 s2 and they sounded harsh and lacked bass
Great video as always. Just a helpful addition to your video. The tweeter's beauty ring pops off exposing the mounting screws for the tweeter. No special tools required to remove it.
Danny I can really understand and appreciate your knowledge and your talent. All those 100 hours into thousands of knowing what each part will do and applying them as always thank you for sharing.
I just wish main manufacturers we'll have a really decent entry-level speaker to show showcase the rest.
can we have a sound demo before and after then again this is your Channel and you can run it anyway how you feel fit too
Ride Easy
He doesn't build the new crossovers, just sells the kits, there is no way to listen 'after'
He will never do it......hahah
Well done, Danny! Have you had time to check your speaker wire with the Aegir amp?
It would be neat if you could analyze some of the classic speakers from the 1970s such as the AR-3a, The Large Advent speaker, the JBL L100, The old KLH speakers, Rectilinear III, among others. I realize that these are probably not ones that you would make new crossovers for, but if you could confirm these speakers are performing like new, it would be interesting how the crossovers operate on them.
IT WOULD BE INTERESTING
Now remember that you listen more to reflections from a speaker than onaxis. The average of the before measurements is ok horizontally. The tweeter is removed from the front by removing the grille, it loosens easily at the bottom first. Then remove the decoration ring as on the bass unit. The tweeter can now be removed by loosening the four machine screws. Remember that you can always ask an authorized dealer if you are in doubt about something another time. (Google translate)
Hey, Danny, loving the Pedest'ale Tower speakers.
Tell us about them! What is your placement in your room? Is the bass detailed and tight? What’s the soundstage and imaging like? Midrange? Treble? Fill us in!
i got my 606 s2 before the price increase for 600 at ABT and for the price they are AMAZING. I have the 705 s2s as well and for the money id recommend the 606s2s allll day
Ive got the 607 s2s proper premium speakers and one of the highest quality speakers in overall sound.Anyone who disses the brand like this nerd with his graph is a waste of space.
Danny have you tried a head mounted microphone? Convenient and good tone without it getting in the way.
I’m loving the sound of these paired with a marantz cinema 50. I get no harshness upper frequencies at all? My hearing is pretty damn good.
If you think that sounds pretty good then you need to hear them after the upgrade.
Don't follow reviews, listen yourself.
B&W may or may not be aware but that ”little bit of a proud area” might be the real reason they went for a lower electrical slope higher up in frequency instead of a steeper filter lower down. This mod might be tuned to a very well treated room, not emphasize as much of the wide dispersion and hot power response of the tweeter at lower frequencies.
I’m thinking of buying some B & W 603 S2 AEs, going to be giving these guys a call😌👌
Danny, are first order crossovers suitable for D'Appolito (MTM) driver configuration (in case when both driver types have a lot of range extention beyound crossover point) or the third order would still be better?
Hi GR-Research May we know ? Any Great Low Base 100uf Cap on market is very good for Low base Speaker use ! Can u recommend ! Pls advise can. Any 100uf Copper Foil cap u can recommend !......................: xxx
There are many days I wish I had my own beauty ring.
Is this upgrade kit also suitable for the original B&W 606, not S2, logically it should as crossover reportedly was the only difference between these models?
When applying a bit of trial and error with a custom cross-over is there any reason you can't use cheap components like electrolitic caps and iron core inductors to get the values correct, then substitute in good components of the same value?
Having a stockpile of sonicaps and erse indusctors when starting out is a bit pricey
I follow the drivers that others are using like Scan-Speak drivers and look or play spy for any info.
If I'm trying to build a Wilson Watt killer, I have to use good parts because I want to be better or an improvement over them.
So with a simple 1st order tweeter cap reversing phase by 180° is that why i have found inside some simple crossovered speakers with the tweeter wired in reverse ?...positive x-over cable to negative tweeter tag & negative x-over cable to positive tweeter tag.....
One question, if I have electrolytic 4nf(micro farad) in tweeter crossover in series with tweeter, and replace with mkt/mkp 4.7nf(because i dont have 4nf) is there would be a problem in sound,phase shift,or something? Crossover contains one ferite/laminate core inductor 0.32mh on mid bass and 4nf on tweeter . This is satellite speakers, sub is class D powered
The tweeter will play slightly lower. How much effect it will have is hard to say.
Whith a 10 degree TOW OUT, Would the reflection off the wall make the sound muddy?
How far the mic is when you take these measurments and what high (leveled at the tweeter, in the middle of the MB and TW or...)?
Industry standard 1 watt/1 meter on tweeter axis.
I've heard all b&w speakers have Van Den Hul wires inside. That would explain Danny's finding
Would you reccomend this kit for the regular 606's? I know they changed the crossover for the S2, but I'd assume they used the same design, different filters?
Send it to him, measurements are free if you want to know if it needs help
Danny, I've watched a bunch of these upgrade videos and have learned a lot, but my question is this - when you give the price for upgrades at the end of the video, is that per SPEAKER, or is it per PAIR of speakers? I know which one I hope... lol. Just clarifying.
For the pair. He has noted that in other videos 👍
Can anyone tell me if can I change myself the crossover? How hard is it?
B&w 600 series used to be so easy to buy and replace parts. The tweeter used to be a simple twist to unlock.
I’m glad I got 606 S1 as I hear so many issues with the S2 model / anniversary edition. Meanwhile I use 606s1 as rear speakers now.
@@Zenos174 According from B&W; only differences between S1 and S2 is they updated the crossover and tweeter. But from all the reviews it seems the crossover is worse in the S2 / anniversary editions.
Meanwhile I have 702s2 with HTM71s2 as my fronts.
Is the kit for both speakers, or do you have to buy 2 kits?
All upgrade kits are for a pair.
If I was to add a 2ohm resistor across the tweeter terminals would that tame the high end?
You are a great educator Garry. Thank you.
No he`s not he`s a bullshitting nerd.How can he disregard the makers of these speakers who Abbey Road sound studios used in their recordings.
I've got a pair of these and one of the woofers has just stopped working. Anyone got any tips for how to remove?
B&W had that colored sound that is alleged to enhance or be better for vocal range. Flat is not good due to room differences. But audio is really not measured but enjoyed musically as surely measurements we HV are sorely lacking psychoaciustically. Case in point ate tubes which measure abysmally but sounds so much more realistic that any good recording uses it from it's source to the recording. Our ears are the most advanced acoustic tool we have, let's use that more. Only you have to train it by listening to actual instruments live.
Has anyone here done this mod ? It's a big change going from 1st to 2nd order. Would love it if an actual customer talked before and after. In particular, does speaker lose its detailed clarity and transparency that b&w known for?
I have these speakers and note that the plastic port and post component can be unscrewed and removed. Was it not possible to do this to get at the tweeter?
You: "I have these speakers"
Me: "Sorry to hear that"
@@pizzaearthpancakesandother2549 ha, yeah the resale value isn't going to be great after all the recent negative RUclips reviews they've been getting. However, in practice they're not the car crash some are making them out to be. They're on the bright side but still fairly pleasant to listen to.
What is better, closely matched quality drivers or crossover parts quality?
Hi GR-Research May we know ? Any Great Low Base 100uf Cap on market is very good for Low base Speaker use ! Can u recommend ! Pls advise can. Any 100uf Copper Foil cap u can recommend !............................../
Closely matched drivers allow for fewer parts in the cover and this ultimately is better in the long run..
I'm buying these speakers later in the week and will send them to Rick to get pimped-out! Thanks bru!
Hi GR-Research May we know ? Any Great Low Base 100uf Cap on market is very good for Low base Speaker use ! Can u recommend ! Pls advise can. Any 100uf Copper Foil cap u can recommend !............................///
Interesting, 1st order x-over at this price level, less expensive design but trying to achieve better phase or group delay? Fewer components in the circuit? I used 3rd order back around 1980 when I wasn't tri-amping.
Try to rotate tweeter from behind?
The front panels are made of plastic or mdf ??
I really like to see some German classic speakers, Canton,Heco,Quadral,Magnat. Specially Canton.
and nubert and vienna accoustics
Definitely Vienna Acoustics - Mahler's
Send a few to him. I'm sure he'd love to see them too.
My beast Heco Celan Revolution3 Revolution7.
Braun-->ADS
I was told the B&W 606 was an excellent speaker, but now I'm not so sure. I started to question other purchases and now am questioning the nature of reality itself.
Trust your ears. B&W spks are purposely tailored for a particular sound signature that some love while others simply loathe em. Choose your poison.
I got some B&W 706s and they sound OK but lack "chuff" in the voice sound. The voice sounds "in the box" for that reason while the cymbal sound is strong. The graph @ 1:04 shows a dip @ 6 khz. Maybe they are the same speaker as the 706 but just in a less fancy box. My boxes are veneered with a great finish. They probably just rebuilt the 706 into cheaper wrap boxes (with the exact components) and called them 606. Trickle down. lol
for the price they are amazing
At the end of the day it's entirely up to you what you want to believe. Something that seems to not be "out there" in large quantities anymore.
Why does the-manufacturer do what you just did before releasing it?
I think it’s a legitimate question!
Because they want to charge $900 like he said and use cheap parts .
@@roberthyde7102 just imagine if Danny had Center page advertisement in major magazine's
@@roberthyde7102 You don't charge 900 of changing crossover order.Or do you think you can hear a difference in sound if you change the internal cables?
Stupid marketing of this guy to take your money.
@@alexandercyborg5308 I doubt I would hear a difference between cables and tube connectors but the improvements in this case would be noticeable.
I’ve often wondered who actually designs speakers in each price range for B&W or any other company of similar notoriety. And then, who approves of it before putting it to market? Is it a different design and approval team with each price range and product series or how does that work?
Hi GR-Research May we know ? Any Great Low Base 100uf Cap on market is very good for Low base Speaker use ! Can u recommend ! Pls advise can. Any 100uf Copper Foil cap u can recommend !
No such 100uF cop foil cap exist, use higher quality electro
I have watched a number of your video clips and am always surprised at the level of cheap parts used regardless of what the retail price point is, 500 bucks a pair or 15K a pair.
Are there ANY speakers that you like without a teardown and rebuild? I don’t like the idea of buying new speakers just to tear them apart and rebuild them. It may be fun for you, but there are those of us who’d rather not do that.
There are some gems out there. I just shot a new video that answers that question and it will be out very soon.
I think that bump is B&W's signature sound, if we change it to flat response, will it not be a B&W anymore?
No it won't and I think that's the point , If you are happy with your purchase don't modify it . If you don't like them this is an option for people who aren't having fun when listening to them and like to mod .
@@matthewhilty4209 Well, I think the best option is don't buy B&W speakers in the first place.
@@noco-pf3vj Well all the B&W line so far have not been my taste either but some people love them. Overall more options are better than less options IMO.
Could you have a look at the 705 s2 ? The newer model?
Only if someone sends one in.
That tweeter doesn't twist out like older models?
It does not.
"One thing Linkwitz said stuck with me. I'd asked him about measurements, and the often considerable difference between what's seen in measurements and what's actually heard in listening. 'What is important to the eye is not necessarily important to the ear,' he said. 'Why should it be? Nature makes sure each does its job and does its job perfectly. You get cues from the eye, but some things that look gross in the frequency response, the ear says, "I don't care".'
"That from a guy who's more a scientist than an artist. Never forget those words when you look at measurements,
Actually, the mind says " I don't care ".
It's depend on what the mind wants to believe!
...( propaganda, misinformation, truth, prejudice,....)
Sir which is perfect speaker according to your analysis and research?
If I ever find a perfect one I'll let you know. I have found a lot of good ones though.
I realise that they are not B&W speakers anymore, but Danny is a means to get way more expensive sounding speakers, from cheap speakers. It seems that speaker manufacturers make the cheaper ones sound bad intentionally. The Nautilus demo on YT sounds heaps better than my B&W 706 speakers. My speakers are a bit foofy in the voice sound, not throaty enough! Yet the Nautilus have heaps of timbre in the voice sound. Nice and throaty, just how I like it. 😅
Hello Danny, Have you come across a pair of B&W DM7 Mk1 (the original version). I would like to add tube connectors to my pair, upgrade the crossover and remove the two fuses to tha pathways as well. I also like the feet that are on the bottom of the pedestal base. I look forward to your response.
I have not had any of those sent in yet.
It would really help if you recorded a before and after video for some of these upgrades. Lounge and rock song would be good... or some orchestra piece. If you have an chamber of some sort to take measurements... record song while there.
No it would not. You can not hear how a set of speakers sound thru YT and your own PC speakers.
@@qddk9545 i listen through a set of s580 sennheiser 🎧 headphones. Some recordings on the internet are pretty good but an A B comparison if you show before and after at these gives you a apples-to-apples comparison. I have been able to hear side-by-side comparisons on the internet that are as good as going to hifi store.
@@franciscoortiz6980 It doesn´t matter. If that would work, you could buy a top of the line stereo set and re-record all your CD´s, and every decent system would sound like your high end system. It is sooo naive.
@@qddk9545 are you drunk ? What you typed does not make sense. I was talking about sound clips for before and after upgrade... and you somehow went to cd ripping???
Would’t it be great to hear the speaker before it’s modified an after to compare the sound of the two to see if we like what the changes do.
I’m somewhat curious as to why audiophiles don’t just simply use professional studio monitors to listen to music. A good amplified monitor from Neumann, Genelec, ATC or other can beat any audiophile speaker when it comes to a flat frequency response. If a flat frequency response isn’t desirable for hifi, then, could they not just use some sort of equalizer to dial it in as they like? It’s just a question that I’ve been curious about.
It isn't just about a flat frequency response. Some of those you just mentioned have a lot of other bottlenecks, and sound horrid.
@@dannyrichie9743 you may be right. I just feel every speaker needs to be played at a certain volume where things sound better than at lower volumes. For now, I’m satisfied with the Neumann KH310s but something seems to be missing 😓
Hello guys. Could anyone recommend a decent pair of bookshelfs for around $1000? THANKS
We have a lot of high quality DIY kits that you can build for under $1,000.
7:08 love this channel. this guy has no filter, love it. but, seeing him wipe his nose all the time and then touch the client's speaker. i am getting freaked out watching.
7:32 and picking his ear and then touch the client's speaker.
My Triangles are waiting for you, Danny.
You very rarely get to see what goes into a speakers workings. I was watching via subtitles I realised these are not B M W's as it stated as those boxes have no wheels.
Hey Danny. Thanks for another critical review. You had mentioned the tweeter mesh grill. How was the frequency response without it?
It did measure better without it. The top end was a little smoother.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks!
I got 5.1 system 606 B&W on the front 607 B&W at rear the center B&W HTM-62 the Subwoofer is Klipsch the Amp Sony STR-DH770 and the sound of all this is Amazing, you can fix the sound in the EQ settings in the AMP. I would not change anything to my speakers because if i change something to my B&W They would not be B&W Anymore , i trust more in my ears than on the science in this case, but, Mr Dany should Build their own Brand, it would be interesting, of course count me as a customer, I am sound lover.
I don't know what it is about B&W speakers but they just don't do it for me. Heard some 804d's years ago and the salesman was raving about how great they were. I was thinking to myself are we listening to the same speakers? From memory they were connected to some McIntosh gear.
My money says the encores would smoke em in about every way. I do love the look of the 606 though.
Man I would like this kind of kit for CM7 that would have been awesome!!
Aren't you worried about that rise in the 6-8khz range where most sibilance occurs? I'm real sensitive to it personally, I can take a hot mid range better than the place where the esses live. I much prefer AMT or planar tweeters, but they too can make my ears bleed with Sssssss. It's not a P or a T for me, but those esses will kill me every time. Anyway, I really like these videos showing the measurements, good stuff man.
Cheers 🍻.
I think the 705 turned out better based on the on axis and of axis response.
With this 606 it seems there is still small treble peak like you mentioned as well as extra off axis contribution in that 2.5k - 6k region
@@RennieAsh:
No contest, the numbers don't lie. But I'm just wondering why he left that rise in the tweeter when it's in a fairly critical range, at least for me it is. Would a notch filter there break it elsewhere? I really don't know, that's why I ask questions.
Cheers 🍻.
@@Finite-Tuning I guess he thought he'd have to charge $50 extra for the notch
Actually that brightness where sibilance occurs is much lower in range. That type of issue is usually closer to the 2kHz region or lower. 6 to 10kHz is well into the upper harmonics, and like I said in the video, they tend to drop off in that range in the off axis.
@@dannyrichie9743:
Not for me man. I mean absolutely no disrespect, but the bulk of what hurts my ears with Sssssss, is exactly 6.3 khz for both men and women speech. If I take 3-6 Db there it makes me want to take more elsewhere because that does not fix the entire problem, but that is exactly where the problem occurs 'strongest' for me! It is exactly 6.3 khz where the strongest sibilance occurs in every vocalist, every time, for me.
Cheers 🍻.
I have a relatively modest budget and I am not what you'd call an audiophile....meaning I didn't understand more than half of what you said. I just know that I like what I hear. Is there a speaker you like that doesn't cost $10K?
Sure, we offer a large selection of them.
The bump of woofer amplitude around 1kHz when tweeter is off is likely to be an artifact of crossover circuit with the tweeter cut off. The tweeter acoustic level is -15dB down around that frequency. No matter what the phase relationship is, the acoustic output of the tweeter cannot acoustically tone down the woofer by as much as 2 dB.
Absolutely the tweeter being out of phase is what is knocking down the woofer output. The circuits are parallel circuits and have no effect on one another.
@@dannyrichie9743 Oh, I was wrong. -15dB is about 1/6. 20*log(1-(1/6)) = -1.6. So about 1.6dB can be taken down down in the case of 180 degree phase difference.
When you compare these to the way Epos build their speakers it's like chalk and cheese. The Matrix series was good, i thought the 1600 was very neutral, but some of their latest offerings are built like budget Ikea furniture. I think they've worked out that yellow drivers and grey roll surrounds have a hypnotic effect on potential buyers.
Video Request: can you please do a video explaining why these giant hifi companies dont do this from the beginning. im fine with the cheap cost cutting. but stuff like phase irregularities and bad driver choices that have weird ringing and band-aids to fix them. these mega companies have to have the best measurement equipment in the world including anechoic chambers. how do they get away with this level of product?
I just got a pair and I suspected they were boosting somewhere in the upper mids and treble range, its a really shrill, fingers down a blackboard kind of sound. On certain recordings it sounds like it's clipping. Particularly bad with vinyl or vinyl DJ mixes, it's in the frequency range that blows up any surface noise and causes bad sibilance on vocals and snares, it's really not very nice. Only had them for 2 days but I can't live with this. Some stuff sounds really good, I appreciate why people like them but anything in that frequency range to me just sounds nasty, I need something more accurate. Great to hear that my ears weren't deceiving me, those are considerable boosts between 4-10k
Take the port out to gain access to the tweeter nuts
I have seen both bad and good reviews on those speakers,I have never heard them, but I have own plenty of b&w and They have never disapoint. Right now i have the 702 s2 and i think They are incrediable sounding speakers,
I can spot the fan boy 😉
@@DF-et4gs yes and whats bad about that, as long as you enjoy the music on your speakers it dosen’t really matter what other people say, its much better find out yourself, b&w is not for everyone, but they have that kind of signature sound that lets me enjoy the music, now 600 and 700 series is completly different, 700 series is much better in terms of details and clarity, and i listen to a couple of different speakers before i decide on 702 s2🤗
Haven’t heard a B&w that had any bass yet. I only listened up to the 702-signature. I’m sure eventually they will have some bass, but I gave up.
What amp are you using to drive them?
I’m talking demos at dealers. The tweeters are great but they have never had any bottom end.
Could be. I went with the Sonus Faber Olympica. It was a night and day difference in the bass.
@@thereefaholic I bought 702 s2 not the signatures and I love them how well they play with clarity and details, and yes they are not bass heavy speakers by any means, but the bass that’s there is very good
@@andreasmoller9798 yes they do have nice detail.
I hadn't been a fan of teardowns that reveal cheap parts, but ones that make little or no audible difference to an audiophile, but I think the whole 600 line *IS* cheesy, in many ways. The corners B&W had cut to meet the line's price point, were evident. I had gone with Monitor Audio's Silver line instead, years ago, instead of the 683. MA Silvers are built better for under $2000 (but not always providing better sound than some others). I hadn't liked the 2.5 way woofer problems with the Silver 6. 2600 Hz crossover point was too high and I wished I had gone for the more expensive 3 way.
I saw a review of the signature series of this speaker not long ago and the YT reviewer thought it was a mess. After your review, I know why. It was out of phase at certain frequencies.
Now we know which reviewer we can trust. Not that we should trust any reviewer completely.
@@r423sdex Guttenberg is a shill.
Hi GR-Research May we know ? Any Great Low Base 100uf Cap on market is very good for Low base Speaker use ! Can u recommend ! Pls advise can. Any 100uf Copper Foil cap u can recommend !.............................:x
@@judged8549 100uf copper foil cap? Are you kidding? No such animal, bro. Small value copper foil caps run $300-$500.
Paul McGowan HATES the B&W tweeter. He's got a fair amount of bona fides in the audio world.
He’s not alone.
Is there a speaker that Danny likes?
Yes, I have my favorites.
Great video. I am always amazed at how poorly designed speakers are from even high end names. What were they thinking with that crossover design? They could have spent $150 more and made those things so much better and recoup the money
Manufacturers can play games like this to make their more expensive gear shine and make the price more justifiable.
Yeah now that $150 isn't a $150.
This will become $600.
Worst thing as soon as it is out of the store you lose 50% of the value.
@@DF-et4gsyou got it RIGHT there. They can make a far better speaker, but they won't so the top tier remains what it is. A regular speaker well made, with a bloat load of esoteric BS.
You remind me of a Doctor lol . " Well ma'am/sir ---- sighs -- you're not gone like this . Your bmi is scary , thyroid not looking it's best , rbc is like of Dracula and estradiol is astronomical ,but I have a fix for this ... SoniCap "
And your response is lumpy.
@@HansDelbruck53 with a hint of cheese
them speakers aint too bad.
It constantly surprises me that these big brand name speaker companies must not even run similar tests on their speakers before producing them. Do people not hear these issues? Danny makes this so clear that these “quality” speakers have significant issues. Thank God for Danny being able to offer corrective crossovers to fix these “quality” speakers.
Nowadays with high end audio equipment they to have compromised a lot with there lower range and grade speakers, thays in part due to the just being to some a high dollar speaker ,where in fact it is a bottom line comparison to the specialty lines a d the flagship lines that every audio nut wants , its all about different digits for different midgets. I like Danny fix and work the bugs out in speakers for customers that want the speaker to perform at its best , ot is fun ,interesting, and well buy a less expensive speaker system can bring a big joy to those that know what to do to tune them ,
All of the big names are mass production "made in China" speakers nowadays and they rely on their name and marketing (paid RUclips reviewers) to sell speakers. Do research on where they are made if you're shelling out substantial amounts of cash.
Speaker companies rely on the ignorance of the average consumer. Quality is hard to come by these days. It seems that they value their profit margins more than the ability to actually provide a decent speaker to the public!
They are “quality” for what their budget is for making each speaker (not much).
@@stevomcsteve9492 Hello. Could you recommend a couple of decent bookshelfs for around $1,000?
Great sales pitch. New cross over $275.00 and in case I forget some no-res. Why are all speaker manufacturers not head hiring you to fix their problems.
Some do.
I generally do not write comments on RUclips. This video made me do it. I have the B&W 606, 607, 603, HTM6 and M-1 Speakers. These speakers are simply amazing. All these measurements are simply pointless in the ears of the listener. I have 606 in my stereo listening room paired with a spectacular Denon stereo amp and an SVS subwoofer. The 606 is simply spectacular. Best musical speaker I have ever heard and I am an audiophile. Forget the mixed reviews, forget all the measurements; B&W 606 are simply awesome and amazingly fast and musical. Period
I like to hear his opinion on harbeth speaker.
Send one in.
@@dannyrichie9743 sorry Danny, I am not in America. 😁
Hey will the neo 10 come this year?
There will be no new Neo 10, but an even larger driver is under development.
what do you think how long it will take until we can buy it
@@johanneswolff6732 Good question and tough to answer seeing as how they haven't yet produced a sample for me yet.
Oh okay I hope it doesn't take to long bud even bigger sounds good. do you have a alternative in the mean time to recommend for me
@@johanneswolff6732 We are getting better sound out of our NQ drivers than what we were getting from the Neo 10's.
Why no body in this audio company didnt hiring you as crossover speaker designer like andrew jones?
The parts would be too expensive. It’s hard to make a speaker sound good and also be cheap.
Just a small bit of criticism no insult or harm intended.
I have watched IDK 40% of your video's. When you start talking about the test and show the graphs and talk about them its as if you were talking into a mirror or another sound engineer and they understand every thing you just said. I have tried to understand the graphs and what I am looking at or its like your taking to a classroom that has already went thru the first trimester of learning the ABC'S. I am a 42 year Boat Bike ATV powersports mechanic and last 12 shop owner and sometimes I have to dumb it down when explaining to my customers. To grow your channel lots of people need to understand what the heck your talking about because I would say like your customers 90% of youtube watchers love music and HT but not to tech savvy on the scientific part of it. Remember most of us you will need to explain like you would to a child just learning. a pencil or pointer while showing the graphs would be a great help.
The caps in this speaker are from a Chinese company called Bevenbi and their logo looks very, very similar to the Miflex logo
..😂😂on Alibaba you can buy all this B&W copyshit..🤔spend my Money in Elac,s made in Kapitalism..not this Shit😎👊
I like my 606 2s a lot. They work fine with my old Sherwood receiver - high sensitivity helps there. I listen to classical 100% and the quality of the CDs is pretty high. My room is a good one - lots of soft stuff and a good size for the BWs. It would be fun to have GR fix my speakers up - if nothing else, I could see if my aging ears would be able to pick up the fine points. I'd like to try a GR DIY speaker system too. But guys....this site is not about to find a speaker that can't be improved with a little money sent to GR. I'm not throwing stones or doubting in anyway the skill & integrity coming from this site. But I am pointing out that in the real world there aren't a boatload of listeners that are going rip their speakers to shreds and put them back together with new parts. So I'll have to live with all of the weaknesses that I really don't notice and enjoy the music - and I won't need any repairs to do that.
Actually a LOT of people enjoy ripping their speakers apart and doing upgrades.
And I cover one next week (video already shot) on a speaker that is great right out of the box that you don't need to do anything to. It is at a super high level from end to end, measures great, and is not real expensive. It will be out shortly.
If one does not notice any weaknesses in their spks, then dun touch em. Don’t fix it if it ain’t broken. I hv been in this dreaded hobby for 40 yrs now & hv listened to countless “modded” spks & so far hv never ever heard any “modded” spk sounding better than the stock ones….flat frequency response does not guarantee good sound. We don’t play our spks in anechoic chambers.
@@ganck1147 So what you are saying is that you have never heard a speaker that we've modded.
@@dannyrichie9743 No i am from Singapore. Over here we also have people who like to mod their speakers & so far i have not heard any modded spks that i really like.
@@ganck1147 No problem. We ship product to Singapore.
BW інжинери не ловлять мишей?