The stepped frequency bands on some eq’s are chosen for a reason, also there was no digital eq when those units were made. For me what’s important is that I can get the sound I’m looking for fast, I don’t like spending time being surgical nitpicking and losing perspective of the mix 🙂
Truly appreciate you guys speaking some common sense. Pretty soon AP mastering is gonna say impact wrenches and electric toothbrushes are a scam, he’s gonna take us back to the stone age.
Thank you for this. Saying that you prefer something for workflow is incredibly logical. And saying that you can get close enough with other tools is also incredibly logical. And it is all there is. Everything else is personal preference and/or matter of perception. Your videos are full of common sense and I truly thank you for that.
Good. I really appreciated this. So many know-it-all blowhards on RUclips with a copy of Plugin Doctor and no actual credentials or releases, but plenty of hot air. I don’t understand why people waste so much time doing those sorts of videos. ‘The most analogue plugin ever, ever!’ And, so what? Doesn’t mean you did anything with it other than waste 15 minutes of everyone’s time. This was practical and common sense. More of that, please.
This might be my favourite of the entire channel. The rant format is great because you can tell Sean’s passionate about this and speaks from experience.
Biggest difference between analog and digital is the clipping that occurs when you push hardware, it’s pleasing in analog and not so much for digital, this stems from the actual circuits and tubes in hardware which are emulated very well by a lot of plug-in companies, a pro tip is use the headroom knobs on your plugins if you have them, they will help you achieve certain sounds and textures that analog usually provides.
Thank God for plugins! I had a home 8-track studio back in the 80s and it was growing biz. When the outboard gear went from a couple hundred $ a box to $1000+ a box that's where I fell by the wayside. Getting back into to recording recently I found that for the price of a case of beer I can have an SSL strip on every channel?! Not to mention high end comps, eq, fx?!? Plugins have made recording fun gain for me! Thanks for this vid!🎸
Hey Sean and Dan, I totally agree with you. Thank you so much for this great video! That's the point and that's why I love to work with Plugins like Noise Ash, Voosteq and UAD (API Stuff). I like mixing with my ears. Have a marvelous weekend.
I did watch the videos in question and I passed his analogue blind test (lol), some plugins do have a sound, I remember some folks used to add the Waves pultec on their master chain and not use it just let the music flow through it, just like people do now with UAD 670. But what plugins lack in my AMATEUR opinion is that 3D feel you get from analogue, it is hard to explain it, I call it a 3D depth thing, plugins sound flat, that is neither a good or bad thing it is just a different taste. For example my Dangerous 2BUS+ gives a glue 3D feel I have yet to hear from any plugin.
Have you tried 3rd party libraries for Acustica Nebula? They give you that 3d Depth and does not sound as flat as most other plugins ITB. Its the closest you can get ITB
Thing is: if it’s a not a hit, a SSL or neve console won’t make it a hit. If you make music who has to invest in music, better invest in your skills and the composition … a lot of hits in the last 10 years where made by Apollo preamps and native instruments .. As a studio guy: it’s always good to gaslighting your customers with a real Fairchild in the studio environment. Even if it’s not working anymore
1. AP Mastering does not say that all EQ’s and compressors are the same. He proves that you can achieve identical results with simple, free tools. 2. He sells a mastering course for $500: What does this have to do with the original topic? I can't assess whether the course is worth the money. But I spent money on his EQ course, which gave me insights that I haven't been able to get from any YT videos before. In my experience, he does trustworthy work. 3. If the only counterargument is workflow, I wonder why this video was made: everyone has their own workflow... obviously. There are enough people who only use Fabfilter, Sonible or stock EQ and compressor plugins... It's questionable who ultimately cares whether you needed $2000 or $0 to make a good mix. In the end it's about the music. 4. I'm also skeptical about the compressor test. But in the end the question remains: Can you hear the difference between a compressor plugin that you spent a lot of money on and a free compressor plugin? I noticed no significant to no difference in his comparison test. 5. AP Mastering has put a lot of work into this project, programming an analyzer and compressor plugin themselve and making them available free of charge. He was able to prove his unpopular theses and showed that you don't have to spend money to get to your goal. What's wrong with that? Nobody is stopping you from spending a lot of money on plugins and having fun with them... I did that too. But good arguments and facts should also be noticed and respected. And to indirectly suggest that people who have been convinced by facts are stupid is a bit cheeky.
@@StudioLife101 Thanks for your answer. The null tests speak for themselves and have little to do with opinion. Whether it is fraud is debatable. But there's no denying that plugin developers are making a lot of money out of naive customers like me :). All the better that this topic is now receiving greater attention.
@@serious_Joker Fair points. I can make a pro q 3 or a standard logic eq sound like almost any other eq...but it's not quick....and if a null isn't 100%, it's not a null. But you're very right...this debate is good and if people can feel more informed before parting with hard earned cash, that's a really good thing. 👍 The subtle sound of harmonic distortion never makes or breaks a song...but I pride myself on getting some lovely fat tones out of some modelled plugins that would take 1000s of pounds worth of analogue gear to achieve.👍
Good video - like the tone. I think one thing people forget is we have a choice when buying plugins. Nobody can make us buy a plugin - we have to listen to it and decide if it does something we want. Simple as. That sort of negates the whole "you don't need all the plugins that are rammed down your throat" argument pretty quickly.
@@sparella It does, but it's the same with anything in life - you can believe the hype or you can learn enough that you don't need to believe the hype and make your own decisions. That's one of the reasons I like Sean and Dan's approach to plugin reviews.
That's right! How I spend my own money is really nobody else's business. This past month, the entire set of IK Multimedia's T-Racks plugins were on sale (and still may be on sale) for like $50. Less than $1 per plugin. There was/is a lot of value in pretty GUIs, predefined compression curves/EQ curves and harmonics generation. Let alone the delays and reverbs included in the package. This is all before we start talking about mult-band compressors/dynamic equalizers and pitch correction plugins. So, yeah. Although I appreciate the Audio Scam videos as a reminder to save money and use what you already have, if a new plugin can save me some time or do something better than the plugins I already own, I'm buying if the price is right.
Randomly after watching one the AP mastering videos I did some plugin doctor on the SSL Bus Comp 2 and the Native ‘Instruments (softtube) Solid Bus Comp……and then I realised the native instruments compressor actually sounds way better on a drum bus cause it’s got more punch and aggression that I couldn’t get out of the SSL one. I even tried using the 3 SSL channel strip built in compressors to match what I liked from the native instruments bus comp but still the very old NI plug-in won
And we musicians are a romantic lot (thank goodness). We love our graphic representations of magic boxes some famed wizard used (and hated) on our favourite recording. Making music is supposed to be fun. And if _____’s version of a rare compressor adds to the party, then eff anyone who might crap on that for their own gain. But seriously, I always tell my students, “in an inspiration to release workflow, every subsequent step is half as important as the last.” By the time we get to mixing, we’re dealing with percentage decimals of importance. Make ’em count!
Hi Sean and Dan, I wrote a rather long comment below that guy's video in which I pointed out what you just said. I said that nowadays it is mostly a workflow decision as you get a particular curve with a particular EQ. The reason why there were so many different kinds and brands of them is not because one sounded better than the other but because one would do something the other one wouldn't (and vice versa) and depending on what you wanted to achieve you reached out for one or the other. It IS true, though, that you don't need those emulations. Just do what your ears tell you to do, no need to get an analogue emulation for that, you could do it with ANY DAW EQ, with no limits whatsoever. Need saturation? Use a good waveshaper (like Melda's Mwaveshaper) and if it supports asymmetric transfer curves you can simulate literally everything. However, I do see compressors in a whole different way. Those devices are so complex that you can't slap a DAW compressor on each channel and call it a day. Take an LA-2A: It has frequency-dependant compression curves, this is beyond the capabilities of a regular DAW compressor. Sure, you could use a multiband plugin , but to set that accordingly... a nightmare. Why would you go through that torture and lose any creative momentum ?! I once tried to replicate the behaviour of a LA-4, I love those underrated gems, and what can I say? I lost any joy in the process of trying. So I got Fuse Audio Labs' VCL-4 (good, even though not fully there) and on I went. So... it is not about sonic excellence, it is just...workflow.
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Oh i remember those videos, they were a bit condescending. The first one wasn't even testing properly, i remember seeing Paul Third telling how to properly test if he wanted credibility. I agree some might be scam, most not, from serious company, but workflow is as important as the sound, i go faster with my mcdsp p606 or MH channel strip than any stock eq+stock comp. Some companies sell sound some workflow 😊 And i won't start about aliasing in stock plugins which are fine for everyday stuff, but as a dude selling mastering courses, it's a bit scary. Mixing is meant to be fast but more importantly fun and inspired,
Why do we "need" different plugins? Simple. Repeat after me: Time Is Money....Time Is Money...Time Is Money..... Thanks, fellas, for the entertaining straight talk.
That's why you should always try before you buy plugins! The extra added harmonics make a big difference thanks for video guys. Also you guys should also check out 3rd Party Acustica Nebula libraries since you did a Pultec comparison you should try TimP Dual Tech Passive EQ2 it's been my go to pultec ever since I got it! UAD Pultec is a close second choice also on the topic of SSL, The library: AlexB 4K Brown Ultimate Ai to me has become the definite SSL ITB EQ. It would be great if these Acustica libraries show up in these reviews and tests!
Plugins = Shortcuts, it's good that this AP guy is giving us more behind the scenes insight - he REALLY goes in depth w the analog circuitry stuff in some other vids. I like having to do less work to get a certain sound, it's all about about ease of use. Those tiny little knobs in ableton stock plugins get old after a while.
- The Kirchoff eq has these curves, Khz carve EQ can do them very fast and saturation can be added to taste with saturn, spectre or volcano. - If you have a sound in mind, it's faster to dial it in with these EQs whether it's of an analog emulation or ones that were not even invented.
At first I thought it was a valid point of view (EQs all sound the same) but the more I have experimented with all of mine, I came to your conclusion. It’s not about sonics, it’s about which ones give you the sound you want the quickest. I have landed on about 4-5 EQ plugins that do the job for me (love the Noise Ash Ruletec). There is a ton duplication out there and folks have to be cautious about buying the new shiny plugin. That’s not the plugin company’s fault but the buyer. I’m guilty of it and it’s only my fault for getting caught up in the hype.
Jimi Hendrix didnt redesign his guitars and effects for every song. He pluged in and played the gear he knew (that was designed by specialists) and loved and started blazing. I dont want to apply a masters degree in Sound Engineering to every project I work on. I want to plug in and get the sound I want easily and start writting...If a piece of gear gets me the sound I want easily because it was designed well I will use it.
Your boutique tube amp? You know you could just learn electrical engineering, pick up a soldering iron and build your own for much cheaper? Tube amps are a scam! (sarcasm)
Round the twist was a great programme! Although the only thing I can really remember was something weird happening after he microwaved his pants (or maybe swimming trunks) to dry them off.
I say the same thing on my channel. I started on analog and I know these settings well. It used to take me so long with digital plugins to produce the same results I received with the analog gear. Yes it took longer to setup analog gear, and prep everything, but then the sessions went fast because we all knew exactly what worked. That’s the real point. It’s not that you can’t repeat it with digital, but those analog restraints forced you to be creative with what you have.
How I understood it, the point being made in all AP’s videos is that vintage modelled plugins aren’t the difference between a good mix and a crappy one. For example, free EQ’s (such as Nova) can make a mix sound just as good so long as the right decisions are being made when using it. Therefore, why bother spending lots of money on modelled EQ’s? I think he demonstrates these points quite effectively.
@@Dean-p1s Yep...I've mixed stuff that has done well internationally with just stock plugins way before there was analogue modelling plugins to use...but it's way quicker and better sounding to the critical ear with them in my opinion.👍
Well, I think the guy is completely right in his assertions. People are uncritically throwing money out the window that they instead could use to save up to real analog gear and good face to face coursing with a local pro teacher. With real gear you also have a resale value, something plugins do not have.. and I know many people who have payed thousands for plugins.. for stuff they will never be able to trade up to better/different gear. You say "Well of course it will sound the same if you make the same eq curves" ... That's completely deflecting from the point. Remember, the whole premise of "analog modelling" is that it's not a straight digital eq but rather modelled electronic components. Digital emulations of transformers, capacitors, tubes. Not just curves. He also goes through the point of saturation in his videos and in several plugs claiming to be modelled there is none to find, and where it is found it is forms of saturation that are easy to approximate with free digital tools. You also completely omit that he recommends completely free QUALITY plugins and has even made a compressor plugin himself to mimic the others from the big brands.. that he gives away for free! I have seen all his vids and I feel the level of mastering course shilling is extremely minimal. Of course he mentions it, but in no way is he pushing it in a way that comes out salesman'ish and relevant to the claims relating to plugins. Honestly. I think it's bloody irresponsible to keep people on the "analog modelling plugin" train like this. Espescially when you know how big part of the RUclips viewership are complete beginners/amateurs who dont't make money from this. Engineering/producing is a profession and people should be ENCOURAGED to use free plugs and train their ears and not be fooled into thinking that an "analog modelled" plugin will make their mix sound amazing. That is not how mixing works. This is how mixing works: #1. Get well recorded tracks that are done purposefully. #2. Know the characteristics of the gear that has been used for the recording. #3. Compensate for the gear characteristics by adding high-end on dull sources until the track sounds balanced with itself, add low-end on thin sources until the track sounds balanced with itself. #4. Balance all tracks up against each other with faders only. No solo, just throw it all together and spend real time with the faders. Chart out what elements should be featured at any given time in the song. #5. If bass sounds boomy, pull volume down instead of reaching for EQ. If the top-end of the bass then disappears, good.. you don't need to hear the whole instrument all the time. If there are cool licks that has now disappeared, automate the volume at those parts, while being conscious about it not taking the spotlight from the other most important parts. #6. Pan, low-pass and high-pass tracks to push elements to the left, right, back and front of the mix. This is how you introduce width and depth. #7. Add reverb returns with pre-delay set to correspond with where you placed the elements in the previous point. This enhances the depth and gives a real sense of space. #8. Compress lightly the tracks with wide dynamic range.. first on the individual track, then on the group bus, then on the master bus. #9. You should now have a balanced static mix. This is where 99% of amateurs think they are done and can't understand why their mixes sound cluttered and unfinished. #10. Now that shit is separated in layers and balanced: Get creative! Crush elements in compressors! Saturate them to the brink of destruction! Send tracks out of your daw into guitar pedals and modular effects and record them back in while tweaking knobs. Add delays and modulations on fx tracks and then automate the effect-sends and returns to create transitions between parts, automate faders to feature important themes and riffs and ride the vocal throughout the whole track and perform it to have it exactly where you want it all the way through. Also do this with other "lead" parts. Automate, automate, automate! Done :D
When moving from analog to ITB, emulations provide the least disruptive workflow. Fine, but how often is that the case nowadays, vs music producers who have only ever been ITB? If someone is moving beyond stock effects ITB, then wouldn't they be better served avoiding multitudes of emulations and upgrading to something like Kirchoff or MTurboEQ which are powerful paragraphics but include optional classic analog curve functionality? (For occasional nonlinearities, use a saturator with some favorite presets.)
Great reviews Sean, always informative, but I've always wondered what value your sidekick offers on the channel especially as I watch him yawning, scratching his gut and rubbing his eyes during this video.
I do agree with this video but I also think there is a seed of truth in the "plugins are a scam" slogan in that the *marketing* for plugins is often misleading and imho tries to con the less experienced engineers. Any marketing which suggests that an eq just sounds better, or is more analog or gives the impression that your mixes will never sound professional without it are just wrong. I feel this kind of marketing preys on the inexperienced and, for that reason, needs calling out even if it isn't something that only affects our industry.
Back in the days everyone wants to record a noiseless Signal, with much headroom etc. - the digital gear brings all of it. Today they want to sound like this old stuff. It is not the gear - it is the user, i think. As a guitar player i want to record "my" sound easy. The most people does not want the real analog sound of the 80s, if they hear it in real quality. EQ ist not in every case the best way. Many people think, there is a duty to put EQ and Compression on every Track they could do... because the You Tube Experts do it the same way - some take the curve from them - without know, what they do. But hey. sounds like "vintage", whatever this means
Love your work, fellas. I did an experiment of my own for an upcoming video, I loaded up a dense mix with a lot of tracks with every different analog summing emulation plugin I could find. I gain matched each one, and then blind tested them in pairs including a mix with no summing plugins applied. Out of the five plugins I tested (three free and two paid), three were basically indistinguishable from the no plugin version. However two of them I could pick as better every time against the others, and one sounded marginally better than the other. I was actually surprised at the level of difference using those two plugins, and it's definitely worth the time investment in fiddling around for an improved final result.
The first Digidesign Pro-Tools systems had a pretty crappy sound when being rendered to stereo. Digidesign basically denied the existence of the problem but came up with a fix with upgraded converters. To solve this problem engineers used summing through an analog desk. This made manufacturers decide to build summing ‘mixers’. Since this problem has been solved and we have a lot of great analog simulated transformers and saturators it’s totally useless to use a summing mixer these days. Of course you can use them if you like but there is absolutely no need for them anymore.
The only scam I have bought is probably Unison Midi Chord Pack. I felt cheated by that one. It's not really 1200 chords, it's like 30 but the same ones for every base note.
My big issue with AP Mastering’s assertions was 1) the presumption of bad faith on the part of companies (i.e. it’s all snake oil and a scam), 2) making the “it’s the science” claims when modern science is a continuously self-correcting process, 3) working with audio is as much of an art as it is a science and not all decisions are necessarily “rational” or “logical”. This came up because he said “the only real difference between them are the interfaces”. And yeah, it is tedious to recreate curves from various other units. To his credit, it’s $500 to “learn to fish” as opposed to “giving a fish”. But yes, it’s the pot condemning the kettle 😁 And yes, you blokes aren’t shit 😉
"1) the presumption of bad faith on the part of companies (i.e. it’s all snake oil and a scam)," This is probably one of the more annoying assumptions he makes. Writing music software is pretty niche compared to other sectors in the tech world. While you can make a living writing plugins and if you are at the top of the game you might even be fairly comfortable, compared to people who write video games, write CGI software, develop AI or work in the tech side of finance you're basically a pauper. Sam Altman, of Open AI fame, could buy the top twenty VST developers several times over and still have an absolute fortune to spare. As far as scams, grifts and just simple business goes, it's not that well remunerated. So right from the get go, his claims are somewhat overheated. However, we're all talking about him. So impugning the good name of a lot of hard working devs is good marketing. He'll probably make a decent amount of cash from his arguably overpriced, considering he's an unknown quantity, mastering course. He's definitely clout chasing. Grifting? That might be a bit harsh. However these tactics really don't sit that well with me.Even if there maybe a marginal scintilla of truth to some of his, (somewhat overstated), claims
I do think you get caught in a trap of thinking "Oh if I just got this new plugin my mixes will be so much better". Plugins are just tools to do a job but I like to have a few different ones as like you said, you pull up different EQs knowing it's going to give you a certain sound quickly. Plus it's fun!
You seem to have forgotten that once you work out how to do it you can save it as a preset and then you have it forever. Also doing it yourself means you learn about what makes the sound etc, your approach of buying a plugin could be seen as simply lazy, you might as well just use presets for everything. Remember the reason we know the things like the pultec trick is because engineers took the unknown and learnt how to use it. So the guy is correct mixing plugins are a waste of money, if you are going to buy a plugin spend your money on instrument plugins and learn how to use them. just my opinion
IF you're not looking at the screen, its close to impossible to notice the track change on both tests. I'd say for all uses and purposes they're the same. I have to disagree with your comment about reaching out to a neve or SSL because its faster - I'd say getting familiar with a fabfilter like EQ would be much faster instead of learning and memorizing what each other brand of EQ does and where it works best. The pultec low end trick takes 3 moves on a pultec emulation (set the freq > boost the low > cut the low mids) but you can do the same with 2 moves on proQ (grab the low shelf from the far left of the curve, do a dip on the low mids) - ProQ is faster. Plus if I ever need more bands like a narrow cut, I dont have to load another plugin and can just use the proQ. IF you've already spent decades and ssl is what youre actually comfortable with then taking the time to learn a new workflow might not be necessary or the best use of your time, but if I was starting out today, I'd completely ignore all analog emulations and stick with "built for the screen" type plugins (DMG, Fabfilter, Sonnox etc). I stand with the AP guy here. All EQs (for all intents and purposes) are the same. For saturation again I find it a bit limiting to use analog modelling as most of the channel strips I've used have almost zero options when it comes to distortion configuration. Why limit myself when I can use a dedicated saturation plugin like Fabfilter Saturn or shaperbox and get the exact type of saturation I want with many extra options from multiband to envelope following. So I'd say the saturation emulation isnt a good enough reason to use analog modelling either. We have much better options.
In general you can do everything with stock plugins. However you may find thirth party plugin that has advantage over the stock plugin. Maybe it easier to use the thirth party plugin. Maybe the thirth party synth is easier to program. Maybe the sampler in the DAW is not good enough. I had this issues. One has to be sure stock plugin can't do something before just buying thirth party plugin. That's really simple.
I don't think they're a scam but you can unintentionally buy a type of compressor or something you already have because they're both VCA/FET types or whatever, but might have slight differences - example UAD 1176 to Arturia 1176 - each one offers different options and I enjoy a plethora of options so 😅😁
That guy also teamed up with Glen Fricker who does the same thing with guitar amps, trying to persuade people that the only thing that matters is the speaker, and guitars, saying cheap ones are as good as expensive ones(after all only the speaker matters🙄). For both guy S, it’s content aimed at cheapskates.
Hi Paullee3660, with all your respect. Well as far as I know, Glenn Fricker is making metal content for people who want to record metal at home (yes for people that are broke). But... In a high gain setting the poweramp is just getting pushed and compressed in a way that different PU's, tubes, circuitry don't do much anymore (signal just clipped) The speaker is a drastic change because it's on the end of the pure guitar>amp chain. It's a straight forward approach. In lower gain music, the signal doesn't clip the poweramp. Which makes room for the audible differences between the guitar: wood, strings, PU's, amps: tubes, circuitry etc. That's all he try to explain. Thank you for your time. I hope this clarify things a bit more, and wish you a great day! 😎👍🏻
There is definitely a character difference in each EQ. And I completely agree, u can dial in or shape tones with stock, but if I can get to the sound character I’m looking for, why wouldn’t I go for that tool? I get it. Most folks who have an agenda try to create a problem to offer a solution, but it can be misleading to a fault. Also if plugin companies are a scam, then hardware manufacturers are a scam too??? At the end of the day, if your sound is the stock inside of your DAW, that’s your business or whatever you feel u need to do with things that help u reach your sonic goals. It should hold no baring on anyone else. And it makes u look just as guilty as the people who try to influence the audio community into buying their stuff.
This line of reasoning has reared its head recently amongst a few influencers it seems. As an amateur hobbyist (with enough experience to be better than I am) I found the arguments ridiculous. Just the harmonic modelling alone, let alone the curves and ease of use make the assertions wrong. Scam is a subjective word implying that the product doesn't do what it claims. They clearly do. Whether it's worth the price is again subjective...... Overall that video you're responding to was cringeworthy. Glad to see you do this video speaking some sense.
some thoughts... despite your insistence my videos say all plugins are a scam, this isn't something i've ever claimed. my claim is that the marketing is a scam, which says this eq or that compressor will transform your mix because Xyz adjectives when in fact it's got none of those claimed properties. the maag air band for example is a standard high shelf which nulls with vanilla biquads. that's demonstrably snake oil based on the marketing claims. i put the marketing claims up on the screen in my videos. i feel this video pretty much just misrepresented what i've said but whatever. in terms of my course, i have 4 courses and yes one is expensive because it's over 10 hours of content aimed at other professional or semi professional mastering engineers, it's essentially a b2b product. my other courses are lower priced and imho great value for money and my eq course there's how to no longer need to rely on skeuomorphic interfaces to get a good sound fast, which is helpful for people who currently struggle with depending on preset like plugins such as modelling plugs
You have to be accountable for the overall takeaway people are going to have watching your stuff. People are going to come away thinking their DAW stock eq is the apex and that it’s not worth even exploring anything else. Sure there are SOME scams but by failing to point to many of the good players or discussing the back end technologies like the different hardware modeling techniques, not only does it potentially rob users of the opportunity to acquire a more powerful tool, but it robs manufacturers like PSP or Voxengo of a space they have rightfully secured for themselves through legit innovation- such as harmonieq or novelteq for instance. Or on the more adventurous side some of the works of Tim Petheric or Analog in the Box. No way are you going to get that kind of sound from ProQ.
I'm an old analog guy a couple years into this computer recording thing and my plugins need to look like analog hardware...maybe do a video like this now and then I like it
Plugins to revere: Plugin Alliance TOMOAudioLabs LISA MAAT RSPhaseShifter Crysonic ANUNA BlackSaltAudio Oxygen Plugin Alliance ADPTR HYPE and MetricAB Baby Audio TAIP, Crystalline Lunancy Audio BEAM Softube Tube Tech series & the Weiss series many of Acustica Audio hardware-emulations, especially JAM & Pumpkin PRO
I don’t know what this guy’s agenda is but I have to say I agree with one thing he is implying and I realize this after having spent literally thousands of euros in plug-ins over the years. If you don’t know what you’re doing itreally doesn’t matter what plug-in you use. it will still sound like “Shh………!!!!!t “
A big part of the equation is getting accurate monitoring. Which is why the hardware software combination Slate vsx is a product I recommend to every sound engineer. Accurate monitoring is something everybody struggles with because most of us can't afford to build proper acoustics let alone the expensive speakers. Between that and iLoud monitors with ARC calibration... Because mixing on just headphones even with the simulated software isn't enough. And yeah at that point you still need to know what to listen for but having a good Sonic foundation will lead you down an easier path...
@@RealHomeRecordingI agree. I always spend most on my budget for the best possible speakers I could afford (and then even spend more than I could afford) cause I realized pretty early that it is a part of the chain that has the biggest influence on Sound (in the right room space of course). This and because I always found loudspeakers fascinating as to how different they can sound.
It would appear that his "Pro Mastering" career isn't paying too well and making a name for himself as some sort of iconoclast might drum up some business for his "Mastering Course" ... How's that for an agenda ? Also stirring up a YT controversy wins views .
@@saardean4481nice. Yeah man with practice you'll get there. It took me about six years to finally get really good at mixing / Mastering music. Before that I was recording voice overs for Internet radio shows but not doing a lot of instrument recordings.
@@KozmykJthose are some very good points. I didn't know he was selling a $500 horse until I saw this video. When you have places like mix with the Masters offering instructional videos for about $120 per year, you really have to question this guy LOL.
This Channel makes a Living out of reviewing all the new plugins on the market, so I can understand where you are coming from. 😘 Of course its clickbait to claim the whole Industri is a scam. But that is just how you get attention on YT these days. 🙄 But to say it is more difficult to achieve your sound with a tool like fabfilter eq or similar. Has to be a lack of confidence IMO. Old Habits Die Hard, so you just keep using what you are used to. Why change anything if you're happy where You are? But if you know your tools and are experienced and confident with an modern EQ. And you have the talent! It can get your preferred sound in seconds! The so call internal clipping and harmonics, doesn't make any significant difference. Your AB testing clearly proofs that. The AB Mastering Guy is a taking about the marketing BS, with the industry, claiming their software to be an exact clone of the hardware. Without any proof. They never ever provide any examples of the hardware unit the are claiming to have copied. It's obvious what they are doing and it has been for many years now. Peace. 🙂
Of course you can match the end result of nearly any plug-in but if you can't match the process by which you got there, then it's a unique product... that is beneficial if you prefer one process over another. It's like saying that a Ferrari is the same as a Ford, because they both get you to work on time. That particular dude lost me when, in choosing to match an Elysia Alpha compressor: 1) chose the +mastering version+ to gain reduce by 10db.... 2) didn't use the clipper... 3) didn't use the warm circuit... 4) didn't use the feed forward. Well, yeah.... If you remove EVERYTHING that makes a plug-in unique, then you can probably find 30 different substitutes for the generic results you're getting from it. Good job...?
1 of my favourite videos by these blokes. in the woke RUclips era. BEfore YouTUbe woke up, this channel used to be Irishly profane LoL I loved it better back then!
@@marekvoosen Dan's done a lot of ghost production..am sure he'll say where you can find it. You can find my past stuff on my website in the links. I've mixed a lot of albums by Kim Wilde, among others...👍
Wayyy its the shit boys!!!!! Enjoyed that lads. Aye plugins are aw different that's why they have different names. Aw ra best fae Bonnie Scotland, keep up the shit!
This was great! For me it 100% workflow. I have been trying for years to get the feel of a console. The video your talking about is a joke. I dont have time to mess about. It like ringing the house out. If I Gab a pultec eq! im gonna have subs melted on the floor. Go to your 31 band EQ and be done! its the tool for the job. On your test I Picked the nova eq and then the stock logic eq. But the difference's where so small no way for me to judge being honest. So ya it like you said use what works. Enjoyed ya Stupid Boys.. Been Watching Dads Army.. LOL Im sure you get the stupid Boy Joke..
always a giveaway when youtubers are shouting and making attention grabbing claims. well done for a more balanced take. His methods of testing were rubbish, and the differences he was expecting to hear were way too big. EQ is EQ, if the results weren’t often similar that would imply something being wrong.
Disagree, it is a scam, I have been through various stages of plugin addiction and ultimately I found that nothing did anything special. Even the UAD stuff which I spent thousands on was just meh. If you want analog then buy analog gear. That's it no discussion or endless justifications as to why you spent that money that you shouldn't have. It's a scam. I only use stock eq's. dynamics etc. I do like plugins that are creative and allow new things but anything else is a waste of money.
Thanks men. That guy was pissing me off, making broad statements out of context. When I was much younger and apprenticed with serious hardware pros there was and remains a clear and understandable difference. Yes you can do the time consuming work to try to get one to match another but if you like the sound of a specific unit why not get a plugin designed to do that? Even with dastardly RUclips compression I could clearly distinguish the differences in your second demo. I couldn’t tell you which was which but I do know which one served the song better in my opinion. Pardon my Canadian language but that dude can stfu. You gents rock this space. Best always
The stepped frequency bands on some eq’s are chosen for a reason, also there was no digital eq when those units were made. For me what’s important is that I can get the sound I’m looking for fast, I don’t like spending time being surgical nitpicking and losing perspective of the mix 🙂
That makes total sense my friend.
Truly appreciate you guys speaking some common sense. Pretty soon AP mastering is gonna say impact wrenches and electric toothbrushes are a scam, he’s gonna take us back to the stone age.
Thank you for this. Saying that you prefer something for workflow is incredibly logical. And saying that you can get close enough with other tools is also incredibly logical. And it is all there is. Everything else is personal preference and/or matter of perception. Your videos are full of common sense and I truly thank you for that.
Good. I really appreciated this. So many know-it-all blowhards on RUclips with a copy of Plugin Doctor and no actual credentials or releases, but plenty of hot air. I don’t understand why people waste so much time doing those sorts of videos. ‘The most analogue plugin ever, ever!’ And, so what? Doesn’t mean you did anything with it other than waste 15 minutes of everyone’s time.
This was practical and common sense. More of that, please.
This might be my favourite of the entire channel. The rant format is great because you can tell Sean’s passionate about this and speaks from experience.
@@smujohnson 🍻👍
Biggest difference between analog and digital is the clipping that occurs when you push hardware, it’s pleasing in analog and not so much for digital, this stems from the actual circuits and tubes in hardware which are emulated very well by a lot of plug-in companies, a pro tip is use the headroom knobs on your plugins if you have them, they will help you achieve certain sounds and textures that analog usually provides.
Talking about UAD plugins, I gather?
@@JoeyFTL from my knowledge they were the first to start implementing them but other companies have hopped on that bandwagon like plug-in alliance.
For me it's all about the workflow and the extra harmonics you've get with the external plugins.
YEAH THATS MY MAN, I WISH U WHERE MY GRAMMY WINNING GRANNY
Thank God for plugins! I had a home 8-track studio back in the 80s and it was growing biz. When the outboard gear went from a couple hundred $ a box to $1000+ a box that's where I fell by the wayside. Getting back into to recording recently I found that for the price of a case of beer I can have an SSL strip on every channel?! Not to mention high end comps, eq, fx?!? Plugins have made recording fun gain for me! Thanks for this vid!🎸
Hey Sean and Dan,
I totally agree with you. Thank you so much for this great video! That's the point and that's why I love to work with Plugins like Noise Ash, Voosteq and UAD (API Stuff). I like mixing with my ears.
Have a marvelous weekend.
I did watch the videos in question and I passed his analogue blind test (lol), some plugins do have a sound, I remember some folks used to add the Waves pultec on their master chain and not use it just let the music flow through it, just like people do now with UAD 670. But what plugins lack in my AMATEUR opinion is that 3D feel you get from analogue, it is hard to explain it, I call it a 3D depth thing, plugins sound flat, that is neither a good or bad thing it is just a different taste. For example my Dangerous 2BUS+ gives a glue 3D feel I have yet to hear from any plugin.
Have you tried 3rd party libraries for Acustica Nebula? They give you that 3d Depth and does not sound as flat as most other plugins ITB. Its the closest you can get ITB
Thing is: if it’s a not a hit, a SSL or neve console won’t make it a hit.
If you make music who has to invest in music, better invest in your skills and the composition … a lot of hits in the last 10 years where made by Apollo preamps and native instruments ..
As a studio guy: it’s always good to gaslighting your customers with a real Fairchild in the studio environment. Even if it’s not working anymore
1. AP Mastering does not say that all EQ’s and compressors are the same. He proves that you can achieve identical results with simple, free tools.
2. He sells a mastering course for $500: What does this have to do with the original topic? I can't assess whether the course is worth the money. But I spent money on his EQ course, which gave me insights that I haven't been able to get from any YT videos before. In my experience, he does trustworthy work.
3. If the only counterargument is workflow, I wonder why this video was made: everyone has their own workflow... obviously. There are enough people who only use Fabfilter, Sonible or stock EQ and compressor plugins... It's questionable who ultimately cares whether you needed $2000 or $0 to make a good mix. In the end it's about the music.
4. I'm also skeptical about the compressor test. But in the end the question remains: Can you hear the difference between a compressor plugin that you spent a lot of money on and a free compressor plugin? I noticed no significant to no difference in his comparison test.
5. AP Mastering has put a lot of work into this project, programming an analyzer and compressor plugin themselve and making them available free of charge. He was able to prove his unpopular theses and showed that you don't have to spend money to get to your goal. What's wrong with that?
Nobody is stopping you from spending a lot of money on plugins and having fun with them... I did that too. But good arguments and facts should also be noticed and respected.
And to indirectly suggest that people who have been convinced by facts are stupid is a bit cheeky.
@@serious_Joker Not facts though.....opinions. But welcome to the debate. 👍
@@StudioLife101 Thanks for your answer. The null tests speak for themselves and have little to do with opinion.
Whether it is fraud is debatable. But there's no denying that plugin developers are making a lot of money out of naive customers like me :). All the better that this topic is now receiving greater attention.
@@serious_Joker Fair points. I can make a pro q 3 or a standard logic eq sound like almost any other eq...but it's not quick....and if a null isn't 100%, it's not a null. But you're very right...this debate is good and if people can feel more informed before parting with hard earned cash, that's a really good thing. 👍 The subtle sound of harmonic distortion never makes or breaks a song...but I pride myself on getting some lovely fat tones out of some modelled plugins that would take 1000s of pounds worth of analogue gear to achieve.👍
Be careful. He might do an “Is it shit?” video on the course itself.
Good video - like the tone.
I think one thing people forget is we have a choice when buying plugins. Nobody can make us buy a plugin - we have to listen to it and decide if it does something we want. Simple as. That sort of negates the whole "you don't need all the plugins that are rammed down your throat" argument pretty quickly.
I think this argument ignores the psychological power of marketing and the gullibility that goes with inexperience.
@@sparella It does, but it's the same with anything in life - you can believe the hype or you can learn enough that you don't need to believe the hype and make your own decisions. That's one of the reasons I like Sean and Dan's approach to plugin reviews.
That's right! How I spend my own money is really nobody else's business. This past month, the entire set of IK Multimedia's T-Racks plugins were on sale (and still may be on sale) for like $50. Less than $1 per plugin. There was/is a lot of value in pretty GUIs, predefined compression curves/EQ curves and harmonics generation. Let alone the delays and reverbs included in the package.
This is all before we start talking about mult-band compressors/dynamic equalizers and pitch correction plugins.
So, yeah. Although I appreciate the Audio Scam videos as a reminder to save money and use what you already have, if a new plugin can save me some time or do something better than the plugins I already own, I'm buying if the price is right.
Randomly after watching one the AP mastering videos I did some plugin doctor on the SSL Bus Comp 2 and the Native ‘Instruments (softtube) Solid Bus Comp……and then I realised the native instruments compressor actually sounds way better on a drum bus cause it’s got more punch and aggression that I couldn’t get out of the SSL one. I even tried using the 3 SSL channel strip built in compressors to match what I liked from the native instruments bus comp but still the very old NI plug-in won
And we musicians are a romantic lot (thank goodness). We love our graphic representations of magic boxes some famed wizard used (and hated) on our favourite recording. Making music is supposed to be fun. And if _____’s version of a rare compressor adds to the party, then eff anyone who might crap on that for their own gain. But seriously, I always tell my students, “in an inspiration to release workflow, every subsequent step is half as important as the last.” By the time we get to mixing, we’re dealing with percentage decimals of importance. Make ’em count!
Hi Sean and Dan, I wrote a rather long comment below that guy's video in which I pointed out what you just said. I said that nowadays it is mostly a workflow decision as you get a particular curve with a particular EQ. The reason why there were so many different kinds and brands of them is not because one sounded better than the other but because one would do something the other one wouldn't (and vice versa) and depending on what you wanted to achieve you reached out for one or the other. It IS true, though, that you don't need those emulations. Just do what your ears tell you to do, no need to get an analogue emulation for that, you could do it with ANY DAW EQ, with no limits whatsoever. Need saturation? Use a good waveshaper (like Melda's Mwaveshaper) and if it supports asymmetric transfer curves you can simulate literally everything.
However, I do see compressors in a whole different way. Those devices are so complex that you can't slap a DAW compressor on each channel and call it a day. Take an LA-2A: It has frequency-dependant compression curves, this is beyond the capabilities of a regular DAW compressor. Sure, you could use a multiband plugin , but to set that accordingly... a nightmare. Why would you go through that torture and lose any creative momentum ?! I once tried to replicate the behaviour of a LA-4, I love those underrated gems, and what can I say? I lost any joy in the process of trying. So I got Fuse Audio Labs' VCL-4 (good, even though not fully there) and on I went.
So... it is not about sonic excellence, it is just...workflow.
Oh i remember those videos, they were a bit condescending.
The first one wasn't even testing properly, i remember seeing Paul Third telling how to properly test if he wanted credibility.
I agree some might be scam, most not, from serious company, but workflow is as important as the sound, i go faster with my mcdsp p606 or MH channel strip than any stock eq+stock comp. Some companies sell sound some workflow 😊
And i won't start about aliasing in stock plugins which are fine for everyday stuff, but as a dude selling mastering courses, it's a bit scary.
Mixing is meant to be fast but more importantly fun and inspired,
Why do we "need" different plugins? Simple. Repeat after me: Time Is Money....Time Is Money...Time Is Money.....
Thanks, fellas, for the entertaining straight talk.
@@jimkanter4180 time is ART
That's why you should always try before you buy plugins! The extra added harmonics make a big difference thanks for video guys.
Also you guys should also check out 3rd Party Acustica Nebula libraries since you did a Pultec comparison you should try TimP Dual Tech Passive EQ2 it's been my go to pultec ever since I got it! UAD Pultec is a close second choice also on the topic of SSL, The library: AlexB 4K Brown Ultimate Ai to me has become the definite SSL ITB EQ. It would be great if these Acustica libraries show up in these reviews and tests!
Plugins = Shortcuts, it's good that this AP guy is giving us more behind the scenes insight - he REALLY goes in depth w the analog circuitry stuff in some other vids. I like having to do less work to get a certain sound, it's all about about ease of use. Those tiny little knobs in ableton stock plugins get old after a while.
- The Kirchoff eq has these curves, Khz carve EQ can do them very fast and saturation can be added to taste with saturn, spectre or volcano.
- If you have a sound in mind, it's faster to dial it in with these EQs whether it's of an analog emulation or ones that were not even invented.
It also has saturation options... It's still really deep and if you know A couple analog emulations well you likely to move much quicker with those
Red Rock Sound UniQ is another good one.
@@RealHomeRecording yeah that's a great one, it feels very light and snappy.
Workflow is the key! I don't have time to open 10 bands to make 1 curve 😂 the only thing thats a scam is an expensive 1 size fits all mastering couse!
At first I thought it was a valid point of view (EQs all sound the same) but the more I have experimented with all of mine, I came to your conclusion. It’s not about sonics, it’s about which ones give you the sound you want the quickest. I have landed on about 4-5 EQ plugins that do the job for me (love the Noise Ash Ruletec). There is a ton duplication out there and folks have to be cautious about buying the new shiny plugin. That’s not the plugin company’s fault but the buyer. I’m guilty of it and it’s only my fault for getting caught up in the hype.
Jimi Hendrix didnt redesign his guitars and effects for every song. He pluged in and played the gear he knew (that was designed by specialists) and loved and started blazing. I dont want to apply a masters degree in Sound Engineering to every project I work on. I want to plug in and get the sound I want easily and start writting...If a piece of gear gets me the sound I want easily because it was designed well I will use it.
Thanx god band, and musicians evolve from Hendrix "style".
Your boutique tube amp?
You know you could just learn electrical engineering, pick up a soldering iron and build your own for much cheaper?
Tube amps are a scam!
(sarcasm)
6:36 couldn’t tell a difference between Logic and Maag on iPhone speakers, but Nova got that sound 🔥
Round the twist was a great programme! Although the only thing I can really remember was something weird happening after he microwaved his pants (or maybe swimming trunks) to dry them off.
I say the same thing on my channel. I started on analog and I know these settings well. It used to take me so long with digital plugins to produce the same results I received with the analog gear. Yes it took longer to setup analog gear, and prep everything, but then the sessions went fast because we all knew exactly what worked. That’s the real point. It’s not that you can’t repeat it with digital, but those analog restraints forced you to be creative with what you have.
Who isn't selling a course these days.
How I understood it, the point being made in all AP’s videos is that vintage modelled plugins aren’t the difference between a good mix and a crappy one. For example, free EQ’s (such as Nova) can make a mix sound just as good so long as the right decisions are being made when using it. Therefore, why bother spending lots of money on modelled EQ’s? I think he demonstrates these points quite effectively.
@@Dean-p1s Yep...I've mixed stuff that has done well internationally with just stock plugins way before there was analogue modelling plugins to use...but it's way quicker and better sounding to the critical ear with them in my opinion.👍
Right said, guys!
Well, I think the guy is completely right in his assertions.
People are uncritically throwing money out the window that they instead could use to save up to real analog gear and good face to face coursing with a local pro teacher. With real gear you also have a resale value, something plugins do not have.. and I know many people who have payed thousands for plugins.. for stuff they will never be able to trade up to better/different gear.
You say "Well of course it will sound the same if you make the same eq curves" ... That's completely deflecting from the point. Remember, the whole premise of "analog modelling" is that it's not a straight digital eq but rather modelled electronic components. Digital emulations of transformers, capacitors, tubes. Not just curves.
He also goes through the point of saturation in his videos and in several plugs claiming to be modelled there is none to find, and where it is found it is forms of saturation that are easy to approximate with free digital tools.
You also completely omit that he recommends completely free QUALITY plugins and has even made a compressor plugin himself to mimic the others from the big brands.. that he gives away for free!
I have seen all his vids and I feel the level of mastering course shilling is extremely minimal. Of course he mentions it, but in no way is he pushing it in a way that comes out salesman'ish and relevant to the claims relating to plugins.
Honestly. I think it's bloody irresponsible to keep people on the "analog modelling plugin" train like this. Espescially when you know how big part of the RUclips viewership are complete beginners/amateurs who dont't make money from this. Engineering/producing is a profession and people should be ENCOURAGED to use free plugs and train their ears and not be fooled into thinking that an "analog modelled" plugin will make their mix sound amazing. That is not how mixing works. This is how mixing works:
#1. Get well recorded tracks that are done purposefully.
#2. Know the characteristics of the gear that has been used for the recording.
#3. Compensate for the gear characteristics by adding high-end on dull sources until the track sounds balanced with itself, add low-end on thin sources until the track sounds balanced with itself.
#4. Balance all tracks up against each other with faders only. No solo, just throw it all together and spend real time with the faders. Chart out what elements should be featured at any given time in the song.
#5. If bass sounds boomy, pull volume down instead of reaching for EQ. If the top-end of the bass then disappears, good.. you don't need to hear the whole instrument all the time. If there are cool licks that has now disappeared, automate the volume at those parts, while being conscious about it not taking the spotlight from the other most important parts.
#6. Pan, low-pass and high-pass tracks to push elements to the left, right, back and front of the mix. This is how you introduce width and depth.
#7. Add reverb returns with pre-delay set to correspond with where you placed the elements in the previous point. This enhances the depth and gives a real sense of space.
#8. Compress lightly the tracks with wide dynamic range.. first on the individual track, then on the group bus, then on the master bus.
#9. You should now have a balanced static mix. This is where 99% of amateurs think they are done and can't understand why their mixes sound cluttered and unfinished.
#10. Now that shit is separated in layers and balanced: Get creative! Crush elements in compressors! Saturate them to the brink of destruction! Send tracks out of your daw into guitar pedals and modular effects and record them back in while tweaking knobs. Add delays and modulations on fx tracks and then automate the effect-sends and returns to create transitions between parts, automate faders to feature important themes and riffs and ride the vocal throughout the whole track and perform it to have it exactly where you want it all the way through. Also do this with other "lead" parts. Automate, automate, automate!
Done :D
When moving from analog to ITB, emulations provide the least disruptive workflow. Fine, but how often is that the case nowadays, vs music producers who have only ever been ITB? If someone is moving beyond stock effects ITB, then wouldn't they be better served avoiding multitudes of emulations and upgrading to something like Kirchoff or MTurboEQ which are powerful paragraphics but include optional classic analog curve functionality? (For occasional nonlinearities, use a saturator with some favorite presets.)
Great reviews Sean, always informative, but I've always wondered what value your sidekick offers on the channel especially as I watch him yawning, scratching his gut and rubbing his eyes during this video.
He's the voice of the people...and the voice of reason..👍 😂😂
@@StudioLife101 Good answer. Keep it up Lads.
How dare you! Of all the presenters of the world, Dan is one of them.
@@rossjohnmartin 😂😂👍
“‘nobody tells me what to do….no…not….me ….”
@@Harrysound 😂
I do agree with this video but I also think there is a seed of truth in the "plugins are a scam" slogan in that the *marketing* for plugins is often misleading and imho tries to con the less experienced engineers. Any marketing which suggests that an eq just sounds better, or is more analog or gives the impression that your mixes will never sound professional without it are just wrong. I feel this kind of marketing preys on the inexperienced and, for that reason, needs calling out even if it isn't something that only affects our industry.
Back in the days everyone wants to record a noiseless Signal, with much headroom etc. - the digital gear brings all of it. Today they want to sound like this old stuff. It is not the gear - it is the user, i think. As a guitar player i want to record "my" sound easy. The most people does not want the real analog sound of the 80s, if they hear it in real quality. EQ ist not in every case the best way. Many people think, there is a duty to put EQ and Compression on every Track they could do... because the You Tube Experts do it the same way - some take the curve from them - without know, what they do. But hey. sounds like "vintage", whatever this means
Love your work, fellas.
I did an experiment of my own for an upcoming video, I loaded up a dense mix with a lot of tracks with every different analog summing emulation plugin I could find. I gain matched each one, and then blind tested them in pairs including a mix with no summing plugins applied. Out of the five plugins I tested (three free and two paid), three were basically indistinguishable from the no plugin version. However two of them I could pick as better every time against the others, and one sounded marginally better than the other.
I was actually surprised at the level of difference using those two plugins, and it's definitely worth the time investment in fiddling around for an improved final result.
The first Digidesign Pro-Tools systems had a pretty crappy sound when being rendered to stereo. Digidesign basically denied the existence of the problem but came up with a fix with upgraded converters. To solve this problem engineers used summing through an analog desk. This made manufacturers decide to build summing ‘mixers’. Since this problem has been solved and we have a lot of great analog simulated transformers and saturators it’s totally useless to use a summing mixer these days. Of course you can use them if you like but there is absolutely no need for them anymore.
@@Chaos-Dynamicsa real black box hg2 is my favorite summing mixer if you want to call it that. But the plug in isn't too shabby either.
Can you name the plugins, please ?
@@Burnax I think you could try something like Kazrog True Iron, a lot of people seem to like it.
@@Burnax Slate VCC was probably one of them. You get Neve, SSL, API, Trident and RCA all in one plugin.
He sell is course where he teaches mastering with stock plugins?
What’s wild is if you look at the comments on those videos. Just sheeping.
The only scam I have bought is probably Unison Midi Chord Pack. I felt cheated by that one. It's not really 1200 chords, it's like 30 but the same ones for every base note.
I do agree what u said about Dogs
My big issue with AP Mastering’s assertions was 1) the presumption of bad faith on the part of companies (i.e. it’s all snake oil and a scam), 2) making the “it’s the science” claims when modern science is a continuously self-correcting process, 3) working with audio is as much of an art as it is a science and not all decisions are necessarily “rational” or “logical”. This came up because he said “the only real difference between them are the interfaces”. And yeah, it is tedious to recreate curves from various other units.
To his credit, it’s $500 to “learn to fish” as opposed to “giving a fish”. But yes, it’s the pot condemning the kettle 😁
And yes, you blokes aren’t shit 😉
"1) the presumption of bad faith on the part of companies (i.e. it’s all snake oil and a scam),"
This is probably one of the more annoying assumptions he makes. Writing music software is pretty niche compared to other sectors in the tech world. While you can make a living writing plugins and if you are at the top of the game you might even be fairly comfortable, compared to people who write video games, write CGI software, develop AI or work in the tech side of finance you're basically a pauper. Sam Altman, of Open AI fame, could buy the top twenty VST developers several times over and still have an absolute fortune to spare. As far as scams, grifts and just simple business goes, it's not that well remunerated. So right from the get go, his claims are somewhat overheated. However, we're all talking about him. So impugning the good name of a lot of hard working devs is good marketing. He'll probably make a decent amount of cash from his arguably overpriced, considering he's an unknown quantity, mastering course. He's definitely clout chasing. Grifting? That might be a bit harsh. However these tactics really don't sit that well with me.Even if there maybe a marginal scintilla of truth to some of his, (somewhat overstated), claims
I do think you get caught in a trap of thinking "Oh if I just got this new plugin my mixes will be so much better". Plugins are just tools to do a job but I like to have a few different ones as like you said, you pull up different EQs knowing it's going to give you a certain sound quickly. Plus it's fun!
You seem to have forgotten that once you work out how to do it you can save it as a preset and then you have it forever. Also doing it yourself means you learn about what makes the sound etc, your approach of buying a plugin could be seen as simply lazy, you might as well just use presets for everything. Remember the reason we know the things like the pultec trick is because engineers took the unknown and learnt how to use it.
So the guy is correct mixing plugins are a waste of money, if you are going to buy a plugin spend your money on instrument plugins and learn how to use them.
just my opinion
IF you're not looking at the screen, its close to impossible to notice the track change on both tests. I'd say for all uses and purposes they're the same.
I have to disagree with your comment about reaching out to a neve or SSL because its faster - I'd say getting familiar with a fabfilter like EQ would be much faster instead of learning and memorizing what each other brand of EQ does and where it works best.
The pultec low end trick takes 3 moves on a pultec emulation (set the freq > boost the low > cut the low mids) but you can do the same with 2 moves on proQ (grab the low shelf from the far left of the curve, do a dip on the low mids) - ProQ is faster.
Plus if I ever need more bands like a narrow cut, I dont have to load another plugin and can just use the proQ.
IF you've already spent decades and ssl is what youre actually comfortable with then taking the time to learn a new workflow might not be necessary or the best use of your time, but if I was starting out today, I'd completely ignore all analog emulations and stick with "built for the screen" type plugins (DMG, Fabfilter, Sonnox etc).
I stand with the AP guy here. All EQs (for all intents and purposes) are the same.
For saturation again I find it a bit limiting to use analog modelling as most of the channel strips I've used have almost zero options when it comes to distortion configuration. Why limit myself when I can use a dedicated saturation plugin like Fabfilter Saturn or shaperbox and get the exact type of saturation I want with many extra options from multiband to envelope following.
So I'd say the saturation emulation isnt a good enough reason to use analog modelling either. We have much better options.
In general you can do everything with stock plugins. However you may find thirth party plugin that has advantage over the stock plugin. Maybe it easier to use the thirth party plugin. Maybe the thirth party synth is easier to program. Maybe the sampler in the DAW is not good enough. I had this issues. One has to be sure stock plugin can't do something before just buying thirth party plugin. That's really simple.
I don't think they're a scam but you can unintentionally buy a type of compressor or something you already have because they're both VCA/FET types or whatever, but might have slight differences - example UAD 1176 to Arturia 1176 - each one offers different options and I enjoy a plethora of options so 😅😁
That guy also teamed up with Glen Fricker who does the same thing with guitar amps, trying to persuade people that the only thing that matters is the speaker, and guitars, saying cheap ones are as good as expensive ones(after all only the speaker matters🙄). For both guy
S, it’s content aimed at cheapskates.
Hi Paullee3660, with all your respect.
Well as far as I know, Glenn Fricker is making metal content for people who want to record metal at home (yes for people that are broke). But... In a high gain setting the poweramp is just getting pushed and compressed in a way that different PU's, tubes, circuitry don't do much anymore (signal just clipped) The speaker is a drastic change because it's on the end of the pure guitar>amp chain.
It's a straight forward approach.
In lower gain music, the signal doesn't clip the poweramp. Which makes room for the audible differences between the guitar: wood, strings, PU's, amps: tubes, circuitry etc. That's all he try to explain.
Thank you for your time. I hope this clarify things a bit more, and wish you a great day! 😎👍🏻
There is definitely a character difference in each EQ. And I completely agree, u can dial in or shape tones with stock, but if I can get to the sound character I’m looking for, why wouldn’t I go for that tool? I get it. Most folks who have an agenda try to create a problem to offer a solution, but it can be misleading to a fault. Also if plugin companies are a scam, then hardware manufacturers are a scam too??? At the end of the day, if your sound is the stock inside of your DAW, that’s your business or whatever you feel u need to do with things that help u reach your sonic goals. It should hold no baring on anyone else. And it makes u look just as guilty as the people who try to influence the audio community into buying their stuff.
Dan's lyrical content has been making it's debut lately..........
👋👋👋👋, It would be very useful if you could show a HW plugin and compare it with a plugin emulation. Great channel, congratulations,
This line of reasoning has reared its head recently amongst a few influencers it seems. As an amateur hobbyist (with enough experience to be better than I am) I found the arguments ridiculous. Just the harmonic modelling alone, let alone the curves and ease of use make the assertions wrong. Scam is a subjective word implying that the product doesn't do what it claims. They clearly do. Whether it's worth the price is again subjective......
Overall that video you're responding to was cringeworthy.
Glad to see you do this video speaking some sense.
I remember that show! I’m surprised no one remembers it
To be fair, since my familiarity with analog eq stops at using a boss graphic eq pedal, I always get faster results with my pro q 3.
You guys should do a "Is It Shit" review on his plugin, AP Mastering, to cap this off
@@jcpuga hmmm....Good plan. 👍
some thoughts... despite your insistence my videos say all plugins are a scam, this isn't something i've ever claimed. my claim is that the marketing is a scam, which says this eq or that compressor will transform your mix because Xyz adjectives when in fact it's got none of those claimed properties. the maag air band for example is a standard high shelf which nulls with vanilla biquads. that's demonstrably snake oil based on the marketing claims. i put the marketing claims up on the screen in my videos. i feel this video pretty much just misrepresented what i've said but whatever. in terms of my course, i have 4 courses and yes one is expensive because it's over 10 hours of content aimed at other professional or semi professional mastering engineers, it's essentially a b2b product. my other courses are lower priced and imho great value for money and my eq course there's how to no longer need to rely on skeuomorphic interfaces to get a good sound fast, which is helpful for people who currently struggle with depending on preset like plugins such as modelling plugs
You have to be accountable for the overall takeaway people are going to have watching your stuff. People are going to come away thinking their DAW stock eq is the apex and that it’s not worth even exploring anything else. Sure there are SOME scams but by failing to point to many of the good players or discussing the back end technologies like the different hardware modeling techniques, not only does it potentially rob users of the opportunity to acquire a more powerful tool, but it robs manufacturers like PSP or Voxengo of a space they have rightfully secured for themselves through legit innovation- such as harmonieq or novelteq for instance. Or on the more adventurous side some of the works of Tim Petheric or Analog in the Box. No way are you going to get that kind of sound from ProQ.
I'm an old analog guy a couple years into this computer recording thing and my plugins need to look like analog hardware...maybe do a video like this now and then I like it
Dan has Fleas.. He keeps scratching.. lmao!!!!
Nailed the first blindtest haha
Null test! Null test! Null test! Null test! NULL TEST!
Plugins to revere:
Plugin Alliance TOMOAudioLabs LISA
MAAT RSPhaseShifter
Crysonic ANUNA
BlackSaltAudio Oxygen
Plugin Alliance ADPTR HYPE and MetricAB
Baby Audio TAIP, Crystalline
Lunancy Audio BEAM
Softube Tube Tech series & the Weiss series
many of Acustica Audio hardware-emulations, especially JAM & Pumpkin PRO
Crysonic..LOL!!
@@TheReal_E.IRIZARRY LISA! 🤌🏽🤌🏽🤌🏽
I always use this when I'm mastering. I love the sound of it. It's that simple.
@@waynebo248 Niiiiiiiice. Thanks for the affirmation-confirmation, man. :)
@@AG-mz7vm yes they were scammy, but ANUNA really is boss-move!
I don’t know what this guy’s agenda is but I have to say I agree with one thing he is implying and I realize this after having spent literally thousands of euros in plug-ins over the years. If you don’t know what you’re doing itreally doesn’t matter what plug-in you use. it will still sound like “Shh………!!!!!t “
A big part of the equation is getting accurate monitoring. Which is why the hardware software combination Slate vsx is a product I recommend to every sound engineer.
Accurate monitoring is something everybody struggles with because most of us can't afford to build proper acoustics let alone the expensive speakers. Between that and iLoud monitors with ARC calibration... Because mixing on just headphones even with the simulated software isn't enough.
And yeah at that point you still need to know what to listen for but having a good Sonic foundation will lead you down an easier path...
@@RealHomeRecordingI agree. I always spend most on my budget for the best possible speakers I could afford (and then even spend more than I could afford) cause I realized pretty early that it is a part of the chain that has the biggest influence on Sound (in the right room space of course). This and because I always found loudspeakers fascinating as to how different they can sound.
It would appear that his "Pro Mastering" career isn't paying too well and making a name for himself as some sort of iconoclast might drum up some business for his "Mastering Course" ...
How's that for an agenda ?
Also stirring up a YT controversy wins views .
@@saardean4481nice. Yeah man with practice you'll get there. It took me about six years to finally get really good at mixing / Mastering music. Before that I was recording voice overs for Internet radio shows but not doing a lot of instrument recordings.
@@KozmykJthose are some very good points. I didn't know he was selling a $500 horse until I saw this video. When you have places like mix with the Masters offering instructional videos for about $120 per year, you really have to question this guy LOL.
What company made the 4K SSL E plugin that you’re using at 10:24? It doesn’t look like any that I’ve seen online.
@@smujohnson SSL themselves....👍
Nice talk guys
This Channel makes a Living out of reviewing all the new plugins on the market, so I can understand where you are coming from. 😘
Of course its clickbait to claim the whole Industri is a scam. But that is just how you get attention on YT these days. 🙄
But to say it is more difficult to achieve your sound with a tool like fabfilter eq or similar. Has to be a lack of confidence IMO.
Old Habits Die Hard, so you just keep using what you are used to. Why change anything if you're happy where You are?
But if you know your tools and are experienced and confident with an modern EQ. And you have the talent! It can get your preferred sound in seconds!
The so call internal clipping and harmonics, doesn't make any significant difference. Your AB testing clearly proofs that. The AB Mastering Guy is a taking about the marketing BS, with the industry, claiming their software to be an exact clone of the hardware. Without any proof. They never ever provide any examples of the hardware unit the are claiming to have copied.
It's obvious what they are doing and it has been for many years now. Peace. 🙂
People these days have it so good that they can argue over this 🤣🤣🤣
Fab filter >
I usually don’t name call, however when I do, idiot comes to mind. 😂
Of course you can match the end result of nearly any plug-in but if you can't match the process by which you got there, then it's a unique product... that is beneficial if you prefer one process over another. It's like saying that a Ferrari is the same as a Ford, because they both get you to work on time.
That particular dude lost me when, in choosing to match an Elysia Alpha compressor: 1) chose the +mastering version+ to gain reduce by 10db.... 2) didn't use the clipper... 3) didn't use the warm circuit... 4) didn't use the feed forward.
Well, yeah.... If you remove EVERYTHING that makes a plug-in unique, then you can probably find 30 different substitutes for the generic results you're getting from it. Good job...?
6:45 LOG HQ EQ the worst, TDR Nova the best == yeah I said it.
Knew bro was jus blowin smoke 💨
03:46 You see. I knew it. Dan does the show trouserless.😀
1 of my favourite videos by these blokes. in the woke RUclips era. BEfore YouTUbe woke up, this channel used to be Irishly profane LoL I loved it better back then!
Like to hear some mixes by you guys, where can find these?
@@marekvoosen Dan's done a lot of ghost production..am sure he'll say where you can find it. You can find my past stuff on my website in the links. I've mixed a lot of albums by Kim Wilde, among others...👍
Wayyy its the shit boys!!!!! Enjoyed that lads. Aye plugins are aw different that's why they have different names. Aw ra best fae Bonnie Scotland, keep up the shit!
what?
Scots ma man, it's like English buts it's no
Some how i guessed right on the 1st one lol
He needs to be watching this...so he can learn....LOL 🤣🤣🤣🤣
This was great! For me it 100% workflow. I have been trying for years to get the feel of a console. The video your talking about is a joke. I dont have time to mess about. It like ringing the house out. If I Gab a pultec eq! im gonna have subs melted on the floor. Go to your 31 band EQ and be done! its the tool for the job. On your test I Picked the nova eq and then the stock logic eq. But the difference's where so small no way for me to judge being honest. So ya it like you said use what works. Enjoyed ya Stupid Boys.. Been Watching Dads Army.. LOL Im sure you get the stupid Boy Joke..
My noiceash, PSP, Pulsar, Kiive, Kazrog and TC Electronic plugin folder objects and reply, "we're really good!". 😊
always a giveaway when youtubers are shouting and making attention grabbing claims. well done for a more balanced take.
His methods of testing were rubbish, and the differences he was expecting to hear were way too big. EQ is EQ, if the results weren’t often similar that would imply something being wrong.
He's been selling the course this whole time. It's all an advertising strategy and a grift.
Disagree, it is a scam, I have been through various stages of plugin addiction and ultimately I found that nothing did anything special. Even the UAD stuff which I spent thousands on was just meh. If you want analog then buy analog gear. That's it no discussion or endless justifications as to why you spent that money that you shouldn't have. It's a scam. I only use stock eq's. dynamics etc. I do like plugins that are creative and allow new things but anything else is a waste of money.
@@AsylumMusic71 Horses for courses...they work but are not necessary if you're happy to work without them. Absolutes aren't relevant here...👍
That's gotta be one of the most annoying vocals I've ever heard 😂Good on you for calling out the obvious marketing ploy and ragebait.
ROFL, if you watch his latest video with Ethan Wiener they claim workflow and speed is BS too, lol. To me he's just another Paul Third.
Paul Third would disagree, as he's already made a video debunking it too
blah blah blah....LOL.....he's a sensationalist.....LOL 🤣🤣🤣🤣
You guys smoked eem......hes done....he was...wrong....LMAO...every plugin is the same...GTFOH....lol
Thanks men. That guy was pissing me off, making broad statements out of context. When I was much younger and apprenticed with serious hardware pros there was and remains a clear and understandable difference. Yes you can do the time consuming work to try to get one to match another but if you like the sound of a specific unit why not get a plugin designed to do that? Even with dastardly RUclips compression I could clearly distinguish the differences in your second demo. I couldn’t tell you which was which but I do know which one served the song better in my opinion. Pardon my Canadian language but that dude can stfu. You gents rock this space. Best always
❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎❤💛💚💙💜🤎❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎