They are incredible lenses, so small and the look is very comparable to the other high end 2x anamorphics. I'll probably shoot all my films on them in the future.
Yeah they seem pretty underrated, but I get it, the price is just above the point where you can make a snap decision to pick up a set, where's for £3-£4k I think can see a lot of people just taking a chance on a set without having to take much consideration
@@EdProsserI would love to pick up a set in a few years. I wouldn’t have an issue buying them even for hobby stuff, it just means setting savings aside specifically for it.
Thank you, not much heavy grading on these I think I used the Phantom Vision and Teal LUT on some. I might make a little BTS vid about making the doc so I'll include some detail on the grade in that!
Nailed it Ed! As always 😊 Just echoing what you and others said, it’s the stunning million bucks LOOK you can get from these things on a pro-sumer camera like the S5iiX, working solo…with practice, and £14000 poorer 😂 Goal for 2025 - work out how to justify owning a set of these…
If I could persuade more clients to shoot anamorphic I'd probably be able to justify the cost esp. if I knew I could make my money back in 12 months. Interestingly if you've been watching Scott Peter's latest series of vids he picked the A set up to shoot his recent ill-fated commercial project. I'm keen to see if someone releases Anamorphics in the £3k / lens range. That's probably what I'd be able to justify for the right look
What do you think of using an L3 tuner with a clean lens like Arles and then adding barrel distortion in-post? Price-wise, would be more expensive than Remus & cheaper than Pavo, but of course comes with more control: focus distance, sharper & less chromatic aberration
I mean yeah, if I could get the look down and set it all up in a powergrade - it'd be cool! But I guess would only work for projects where I took on the edit / grade, always easier to get it captured in camera.. Been offered the tuners to test so will see if I can get one to test with the Arles
Not a huge issue for me as I shoot S35. The Cattos look great - but I'm not sure I'd be able to get away shooting lots of pro work on them. But I haven't tested them yet, Blazar wont send me a set to review. The PAVOs feel pretty well balanced from an image perspective. I think there is some FF coverage of the Pavos - but didn't get time to test it.
I have used the ATLAS expander with the Orion's... It's okay you do have to stop down a fair bit beyond T4 to get a decent image, but if you absolutely must shoot on a LF sensor it's a great solution. I've got a vid on the Orion's in the works. I've used the 1.25x Sirui adapter and have a vid on it if you search previous vids - it also features in my review of the Sirui Saturn set if you're interested in seeing the 2x on those.
Nice spree of videos - fellow Londoner and Lumix S5iiX user. Have you thought about starting a community for "video walks" around Barbican etc - I'd pay for that - hit me up
Thanks man! It's something I have in mind for the future and I'll keep you updated if I do. At the mo I can barely find time to balance RUclips and client work! 😅 Maybe if I go RUclips full time at some point!
@@EdProsser Totally get that, sounds like you will reach tipping point soon enough. A good thing. I have some ideas that I would love to run past you - I think they will be very beneficial for you. I'm going to email you ;)
I just got 😂 there sorry, so good, I was just in a rush to catch you 😂. Btw am replacing my s5iix as there was a problem, but hopefully my next will work as standard.
Honestly, if these were half the price, I think the debate about what anamorphic to get would be over. As soon as you get into $5000+, you get a lot more picky. At that point, is it better to get 3 average anamorphic for $5000 each or 1 amazing anamorphic lens (Apollos). Personally if I was dropping $15,000 I'd take the one amazing lens
I don't think they are average! £10-12K for one lens isn't going to get you far professionally and the Orion's are HUGE! Don't forget that they took are also very soft and messy wide open.
@@EdProsser Average wasn't the best word lol. I honestly do like them. But the lenses I was comparing them to was the Xelmus Apollo which, yes, do compare to the even the highest end anamorphics. So personally I'd rather have a single Xelmus over a 3 set of Pavos
@@heroaomedia I'd rather one Xelmus than a full set of Pavos, and any other amount of "affordable" anamorphic lenses tossed in to be honest. I also agree the Pavos should be cheaper (2-2.5k each).
Sorry am working on my Orion vid and getting my space name brands mixed up. Yes I've seen sample footage from the Apollos also look fab but never shot on them. I just couldn't justify spending £15k on a lens I couldn't use on a professional job, as I'd need at least 2 focal lengths. I think the DZOs are worth the price I just wish they were cheaper and I think they were released at a time where DZO were / are still considered a budget lens manufacturer.
I don't think so, as speedbooster compress the lens image from a FF lens into a smaller sensor etc.. You can get 1.4x expanders, DZO and ATLAS make them which will stretch the image from a S35 lens onto a FF sensor at the cost of light and some image quality. I did mention this in an earlier edit but cut it for time as I didn't have access to one!
It's agonising. I do wish I'd brought the Focus pro with me on the doc shoot but it would just have slowed us down too much and then I'd have also needed my easy rig...
@@EdProsser i tried working with the easy rig, but found what i really wanted was a lighter over all kit... i wish the decision was easy with lens choices. out of your wheel house i think - but have you or would you consider the rf 24-105 2.8 as a run and gun lens for doc work?
I'd love one for sure, but as I don't own other canon cams it's a pretty expensive lens and I'm not always a huge fan of shooting video on stills lenses. I tolerate my sigma 24-70, but I also find zooms interrupt my flow a bit too.
If I have to be honest I don’t find much value in anamorphic. It was a format born out of necessity and limitations and not of quality. It’s neat we can do it but not at this price. I’m more of a fan of Deakins that never shot anamorphic. Lots of movies and directors don’t like anamorphic. What some consider quality others feel are nasty image artifacts they would rather do without. I’m not saying I hate anamorphic movies. I’m saying most of the general audience only ever really cared about the aspect ratio. Hence why a lot of movies are just shot cropped or were shot 3 or 2 perf on s35mm film. Even 65mm naturally has a 2.2:1 spherical aspect ratio. DCI is 1.9:1 which is already wide enough for the more common 1.85:1 aspect of Academy flat widescreen. 3 perf was 16x9 and 2 perf a lower cost way to shoot 2.35:1. Digital at 4k and larger already resolved more fine detail than most s35mm film stocks so cropping is not a big deal anymore. Plus digital DCI already starts at 1.9:1 so a 2.35 to even a 2.76:1 crop like anamorphic 65mm is not a big loss. Some are also starting to move away from such extreme aspect ratios and enjoy 1.85:1 once again. The other factor is a s35mm lens vs FF. A lot are moving away from s35mm sensors. It’s not dead yet and will not be for a long time but I feel like investing that much in a s35mm lens has a limited shelf life. I consider s35mm to be the standard and not FF. Just saying a s35mm image circle is now going to have a limited market. Especially when a lot of cameras are FF and there is a quality hit by shooting s35mm cropped. I also feel at a certain point lenses of this caliber are better off as rentals.
I don't think there's anything wrong with greater choice and variation in how we shoot things and how we uses tools to create certain images. I understand some might not like anamorphic but many do, each to their own! Yes for many these are rentals, unless you can rent them out or charge them out on jobs, which many can, esp. those who run lots of productions. Not sure I understand what you're saying about not investing in S35 lenses, personally the recent trend of full frame is just that, a trend - mostly marketing at the lower end of the market and it's perfectly fine shooting S35 on FF cameras. I do it all the time. We are currently seeing feature films shot on iPhones and a lot of popularity in smaller sensor systems, so I don't think the future is set in stone at all.
@@EdProsser I don’t mind s35mm at all. I’m just saying that current trend might impact interest in these lenses. I always found it incredibly frustrating that people are always about FF when s35mm or APSC has been the standard for over a century.
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one of the most underrated channels, its a great day when I get to hangout with Ed on youtube.
probably cuz it costs around 5000$
People still hyping the Proteus, Mercury's and Orion's which all cost more!
@@EdProsser All of the above are way above my price range so I like to pretend they dont exist lmao.
They are incredible lenses, so small and the look is very comparable to the other high end 2x anamorphics. I'll probably shoot all my films on them in the future.
The bokeh on these are SOOOOOO good! Very much reminiscent of the Helios lenses.
yeah they got some nice swirl!
Great review ! I love how complete this video is 🥰, with tradition testing and in the filed samples. Looking forward for your Blazar Remus review ✨
Thank you sir! I'll make the Remus happen soon!
God love that shot at 16:06 although there are many beautiful shots in there 👆🏿🙌🏿
I agree that the Pavo lenses have one of my favorite 2x anamorphic looks out of all the budget anamorphics!
Yeah they seem pretty underrated, but I get it, the price is just above the point where you can make a snap decision to pick up a set, where's for £3-£4k I think can see a lot of people just taking a chance on a set without having to take much consideration
@@EdProsserI would love to pick up a set in a few years. I wouldn’t have an issue buying them even for hobby stuff, it just means setting savings aside specifically for it.
Perfect timing ! I’m loaning a set from DZO for the week 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Looking forward to seeing your footage!
Great video again 👌👌
any grading recommendations? LUTS or Powergrades ? loving the toned and contrast ratio of all your examples ! good stuff
Thank you, not much heavy grading on these I think I used the Phantom Vision and Teal LUT on some. I might make a little BTS vid about making the doc so I'll include some detail on the grade in that!
these are fantastic, poor mans kowa anamorphics!
Nailed it Ed! As always 😊 Just echoing what you and others said, it’s the stunning million bucks LOOK you can get from these things on a pro-sumer camera like the S5iiX, working solo…with practice, and £14000 poorer 😂 Goal for 2025 - work out how to justify owning a set of these…
If I could persuade more clients to shoot anamorphic I'd probably be able to justify the cost esp. if I knew I could make my money back in 12 months.
Interestingly if you've been watching Scott Peter's latest series of vids he picked the A set up to shoot his recent ill-fated commercial project.
I'm keen to see if someone releases Anamorphics in the £3k / lens range. That's probably what I'd be able to justify for the right look
really beautiful frames :)
What do you think of using an L3 tuner with a clean lens like Arles and then adding barrel distortion in-post? Price-wise, would be more expensive than Remus & cheaper than Pavo, but of course comes with more control: focus distance, sharper & less chromatic aberration
I mean yeah, if I could get the look down and set it all up in a powergrade - it'd be cool! But I guess would only work for projects where I took on the edit / grade, always easier to get it captured in camera..
Been offered the tuners to test so will see if I can get one to test with the Arles
These are great but I think they're only s35. The Blazar Cato's are about $1k each and are also 2x AND full frame!
Not a huge issue for me as I shoot S35.
The Cattos look great - but I'm not sure I'd be able to get away shooting lots of pro work on them. But I haven't tested them yet, Blazar wont send me a set to review.
The PAVOs feel pretty well balanced from an image perspective. I think there is some FF coverage of the Pavos - but didn't get time to test it.
What film grain do you use? It ruled in this
Just Resolve in built grain, I think it's 16mm 500t and then I usually crank up the saturation
@@EdProsser thanks!
Any chance you can tell us which adaptor you used to hook up lenses to Lumix?
I've added links to the description - also here: amzn.to/3Ygpc9P
I think it's a Letrater - I've updated the description!
do you use, or have you tried the the atlas expander for fullframe ? And have you tried the Sirui venus with the 1.33 adapter for 2x ?
I have used the ATLAS expander with the Orion's... It's okay you do have to stop down a fair bit beyond T4 to get a decent image, but if you absolutely must shoot on a LF sensor it's a great solution. I've got a vid on the Orion's in the works.
I've used the 1.25x Sirui adapter and have a vid on it if you search previous vids - it also features in my review of the Sirui Saturn set if you're interested in seeing the 2x on those.
@@EdProsser How do you compare the pavo 2x with Sirui Saturn 1.6x +1.25x adapter?
@@JohnDada I think the Pavos have a more interesting look plus just an easier setup to work with than the miss balanced lens / adapter combo.
silly question: do you shoot at 24fps or 25fps?
25... awkward face
Which one of the phantom luts do you use?
Mostly neutral but in this I used vision & teal a lot
Nice spree of videos - fellow Londoner and Lumix S5iiX user. Have you thought about starting a community for "video walks" around Barbican etc - I'd pay for that - hit me up
Thanks man! It's something I have in mind for the future and I'll keep you updated if I do. At the mo I can barely find time to balance RUclips and client work! 😅 Maybe if I go RUclips full time at some point!
@@EdProsser Totally get that, sounds like you will reach tipping point soon enough. A good thing. I have some ideas that I would love to run past you - I think they will be very beneficial for you. I'm going to email you ;)
If I didn’t live on the other side of the world I’d join!
How are these on the Lumix S5iix? If so were they on the APS- C mode?
How do you find the crop mode on that camera, is the noise amplified?
There's a whole section in this video answering all those questions!!
I just got 😂 there sorry, so good, I was just in a rush to catch you 😂. Btw am replacing my s5iix as there was a problem, but hopefully my next will work as standard.
@@rw3452 I'm glad I got ya covered with the info!
@@EdProsser You got the whole of RUclips covered on anamorphics! RUclips if you are listening push this up on the views!
Honestly, if these were half the price, I think the debate about what anamorphic to get would be over. As soon as you get into $5000+, you get a lot more picky. At that point, is it better to get 3 average anamorphic for $5000 each or 1 amazing anamorphic lens (Apollos). Personally if I was dropping $15,000 I'd take the one amazing lens
I don't think they are average! £10-12K for one lens isn't going to get you far professionally and the Orion's are HUGE! Don't forget that they took are also very soft and messy wide open.
@@EdProsser Average wasn't the best word lol. I honestly do like them. But the lenses I was comparing them to was the Xelmus Apollo which, yes, do compare to the even the highest end anamorphics. So personally I'd rather have a single Xelmus over a 3 set of Pavos
@@heroaomedia I'd rather one Xelmus than a full set of Pavos, and any other amount of "affordable" anamorphic lenses tossed in to be honest. I also agree the Pavos should be cheaper (2-2.5k each).
@@JoshGloverMedia yup 100% agree
Sorry am working on my Orion vid and getting my space name brands mixed up. Yes I've seen sample footage from the Apollos also look fab but never shot on them. I just couldn't justify spending £15k on a lens I couldn't use on a professional job, as I'd need at least 2 focal lengths.
I think the DZOs are worth the price I just wish they were cheaper and I think they were released at a time where DZO were / are still considered a budget lens manufacturer.
That 100mm is a BIG BOI 😂
The Orion's are mega
I would love to know if these lenses work with the Metabones PL-L mount speedbooster.
I don't think so, as speedbooster compress the lens image from a FF lens into a smaller sensor etc.. You can get 1.4x expanders, DZO and ATLAS make them which will stretch the image from a S35 lens onto a FF sensor at the cost of light and some image quality. I did mention this in an earlier edit but cut it for time as I didn't have access to one!
@@EdProsser Ah yes I had it backwards. I meant expander
possibly the toughest decision as a solo shooter... which kit to take with which lenses. same quandary for stills and video! grrrr
It's agonising. I do wish I'd brought the Focus pro with me on the doc shoot but it would just have slowed us down too much and then I'd have also needed my easy rig...
@@EdProsser i tried working with the easy rig, but found what i really wanted was a lighter over all kit... i wish the decision was easy with lens choices. out of your wheel house i think - but have you or would you consider the rf 24-105 2.8 as a run and gun lens for doc work?
I'd love one for sure, but as I don't own other canon cams it's a pretty expensive lens and I'm not always a huge fan of shooting video on stills lenses. I tolerate my sigma 24-70, but I also find zooms interrupt my flow a bit too.
They are nice, but at this price point I think the Proteus is the better choice.
They're similar price points, but the Proteus are huge lenses, I've not seen anything that has blown me away, what do you prefer about them?
Mini doc content
For video walks or patreon course etc
24 hour mini doc challenge/ season etc hire the Genesis cinema - id love to help the channel
If I have to be honest I don’t find much value in anamorphic. It was a format born out of necessity and limitations and not of quality. It’s neat we can do it but not at this price.
I’m more of a fan of Deakins that never shot anamorphic. Lots of movies and directors don’t like anamorphic.
What some consider quality others feel are nasty image artifacts they would rather do without.
I’m not saying I hate anamorphic movies. I’m saying most of the general audience only ever really cared about the aspect ratio. Hence why a lot of movies are just shot cropped or were shot 3 or 2 perf on s35mm film.
Even 65mm naturally has a 2.2:1 spherical aspect ratio.
DCI is 1.9:1 which is already wide enough for the more common 1.85:1 aspect of Academy flat widescreen. 3 perf was 16x9 and 2 perf a lower cost way to shoot 2.35:1.
Digital at 4k and larger already resolved more fine detail than most s35mm film stocks so cropping is not a big deal anymore. Plus digital DCI already starts at 1.9:1 so a 2.35 to even a 2.76:1 crop like anamorphic 65mm is not a big loss.
Some are also starting to move away from such extreme aspect ratios and enjoy 1.85:1 once again.
The other factor is a s35mm lens vs FF. A lot are moving away from s35mm sensors. It’s not dead yet and will not be for a long time but I feel like investing that much in a s35mm lens has a limited shelf life. I consider s35mm to be the standard and not FF. Just saying a s35mm image circle is now going to have a limited market. Especially when a lot of cameras are FF and there is a quality hit by shooting s35mm cropped.
I also feel at a certain point lenses of this caliber are better off as rentals.
I don't think there's anything wrong with greater choice and variation in how we shoot things and how we uses tools to create certain images. I understand some might not like anamorphic but many do, each to their own!
Yes for many these are rentals, unless you can rent them out or charge them out on jobs, which many can, esp. those who run lots of productions.
Not sure I understand what you're saying about not investing in S35 lenses, personally the recent trend of full frame is just that, a trend - mostly marketing at the lower end of the market and it's perfectly fine shooting S35 on FF cameras. I do it all the time.
We are currently seeing feature films shot on iPhones and a lot of popularity in smaller sensor systems, so I don't think the future is set in stone at all.
@@EdProsser I don’t mind s35mm at all. I’m just saying that current trend might impact interest in these lenses.
I always found it incredibly frustrating that people are always about FF when s35mm or APSC has been the standard for over a century.