Positive emotion is related to dopamine; antipsychotics which block dopamine don’t seem to improve anhedonia and at high doses may even contribute to it (opinion). A common practice in psychiatry is to use Seroquel for insomnia. I’ve stopped doing that as I suspect it blunts positive emotion.
Antipsychotic medication quells dopamine activity, the very chemical that is lacking in anhedonia. It is mainly used for mania and schizoaffective disorder. Contraindicated in depression
This was SO GOOD. As a primary care provider, I appreciate the distinction & necessity to use words correctly because it determines proper treatment. ❤
Reminder at 5:05 :"If you´re trying to propell yourself into some sort of activity, keep it basic: >Body care >Achivement >Socialization >Interests >Cleaning" Note for myself and everyone else x
It is extremely difficult to eradicate I have found these past 20 years once it set in from regular nightly drinking. I never had it before I became chemically dependent on alcohol. I know it is this that has caused mine to linger. @emu1028
I've been feeling it for roughly a year now. Very rapidly getting worse now. 29 years old. I read a comment that said St. John's Wort helped them. I'll give that a try and maybe you could as well, to see what works.
@Colin Your comment on time is interesting. Perhaps you can identify if an event or experience four years ago may have been a precursor for your anhedonia? If so, that might offer a specific focus for your own treatment. /I well remember the excruciating physical pain and isolation of Anhedonia. An unbearable way to exist. I recall the first time I read the words "hollowed out feeling" - it caused a bolt of recognition. /One day in 2014 I was hunched in a café. I'd not had a bath for a couple of weeks. Very shut down in all my capacities. A well groomed lady was seated near me, reading a book. She had been visiting a Compounding Pharmacist for tailored prescriptions for her depression. Her book had been recommended by the pharmacist. It was called "The Mood Cure", by Julia Ross, from San Francisco, working in the field of nutritional psychology. (my copy published 2002, available online.) I knew instantly that the word "Cure" was to be stepped around cautiously. Americans like to talk big!! Reading sections of the book helped me along the path to daily supplements of Amino Acids. If I had the money, I should probably visit a Compounding Pharmacist to review what I've been taking. (They're big chargers!). Am I perfectly cured? No. But I have not experienced that soul leeching hollowed out feeling for some years. I think I could say that the lower levels of living with depression were raised. (Regrettably the covid years have coincided with some regression for me.) /As it is three months since your comment, I hope you have begun to experience some pleasures in your life again.
I have felt like this for a long time. I grew up in a household that was really dysfunctional. My dad was a horrible person all around, and mentally / physically abusive. My mother had issues of her own. (Who's parents dont these days). He obviously hated his life so; he must have thought it was just fine to make mine the same. Growing up as a teen (I'm 20 now) I'd get hit for smiling or just being happy in general. Any sign of happiness that I felt around him, I was definitely going to be punished for it, one way or another. That went on pretty much every day, since I was 10. I had no way to escape it so, I just let it happen. I'm not sure if it was done on purpose or not but, he got what he wanted from it! I can barely hold a job, I have no friends or other family to talk to about it. No girlfriend or social life. Therapy and meds haven't helped either. I just feel completely numb. I don't ever smile/laugh...I just blankly stare. (I mastered the fake smile though). I called him to see if we could get some coffee and catch up with things but, that never happened. Talking to him on the phone, he told me he was diagnosed with brain cancer. Honestly when he said it, I just felt a big relief come over me. It almost felt wrong to feel relief, hearing him diagnosed with that but, it didn't at the same time. I didn't cry or anything for him, just told him I'm sorry. I texted him about a month later and tried to get him to explain why he treated me like that, and how it made me turn out. He just changed the subject. No...I'm sorry, or any type of feelings you would expect a parent to show to your child. 3 months later he passed away. Even then I still felt nothing. No tears...just some relief and calmness. I'm not saying all this for pity but to tell my story. (Maybe someone can relate). That and don't be afraid to ask for help if you are in a situation like this. There are people that can help get you out of that. (It's very important, especially when you are young.) It's not worth the mental health problems that come with it, later on in life.
my story is kinda similar but where im at now... 35 years old. move back into my parents. now im suffering even more. don't want to get into details but i just never wanted to live. very much so as im typing this. wish i just never existed.
Medications can potentially numb both negative and positive emotions. So sometimes the answer is less meds, despite the reflex action to increase meds.
Good video. I've had depression for a few years, according to some therapists and professionals, and could have other mental health illnesses aswell or instead. I didn't know the symptom was anhedonia until recently. When I have tried doing things, from washing up, to fishing, I not only don't get enjoyment during or after, but I seem to get worse, because I'm annoyed that I don't get the enjoyment. It's like everything I do just makes me worse. Therapists don't seem to get this and they tell me to just get on with it and get the chores done, like I've just given up easily, when I haven't given up easily, I've tried so hard but found it is futile trying any more. They also don't seem to take into account that I don't enjoy my hobbies anymore, they think I just can't be bothered with household chores, so they are giving me so much unsuitable help.
@@mharris7380 I so get this! Thank you for sharing your experience I feel the same and needed medication not more guilt and frustration from people therapists telling me that I would feel better if I did these things and then not believing me when I felt worse afterwards. Medication got me past the loss of pleasure from doing things so that even tho I found it very hard to do things I could feel a sense of reward and relief abd sometimes pleasure when I could get going
To me, it seems impossible to overcome. I'm also autistic with demand avoidance and ADHD on top of depression and no desire to do anything at all, ever. I just will not do it, no matter how much i have enjoyed it in the past. Scheduling, signing up for things, making plans, to-do lists are just "no, no, no". My brain switches off at the mere mention of such things.
My friend gets this when she doesn’t take her antidepressant and her Ritalin because of adhd and the low dopamine she has from adhd. She also has ASD and she doesn’t like her Ritalin but she knows if she doesn’t take her Ritalin and antidepressant she will end up with anadonia and become completely miserable and unable to get anything started or finished or focus and her life becomes unmanageable another friend of mine with adhd manages this with an antidepressant venalafaxine and no Ritalin he’s got no concentration but he’s not got anadonia if he’s on the antidepressant he also has ASD 1 or what they used to call Asperger’s
@savingpeace8452 Amphetamines are very dopamingeric and daily use likely down-regulates dopamine receptors. That makes real world things feel less and less rewarding (with long term daily use). Tolerance and dose creep are signs of this. Rebound anhedonia when they are stopped after daily long term use is common. Coming off amphetamines often causes anhedonia until the receptors up regulate (recovery). This is the predicament we see in addiction to stimulants like speed and cocaine. This is why they are hard to stop. There’s a notion that this doesn’t apply to ADHD which makes no sense to me. Why would an ADHD brain have a special ability to not experience the tolerance and the down sides of down regulation? ADHD patients often start off only needing 1-2 tablets and with daily use this commonly increases to 6 a day. ->That’s tolerance/down regulation. The higher the dose the higher the rebound anhedonia. None of this is to say they don’t have a role and that they are helpful in adhd, they can be transformative for people. I just don’t advocate daily use of them. I do generally advocate taking regular breaks where that is possible. Here’s a discussion about how they work: ruclips.net/video/jGZFv1bldHU/видео.html
@@thePSYCHcollective yes absolutely and this is why my friend who needs them is on a schedule that is meant to stop this or perhaps reduce the risk she takes her Ritalin 3-4 days a week on her work days and then has a 4-5 day break because her psychiatrist told her that otherwise she would become addicted to them.
Hopefully this reflects psychiatrists beginning to understand that of course people with adhd are still susceptible to chemical dependency as anyone is! And we see this in those higher rates of people with adhd using illicit substances particularly meth here in Nz to treat their adhd
Emotional blunting can lead to anhedonia. But not all anhedonia is blunting! Fatigue is a massive component: emotion/physical/mental fatigue can all contribute to reduced capacity for positive emotion and anhedonia.
Very good channel! I have subscribed from Australia. My first experience of Anhedonia certainly came AFTER I became a self medicating heavy drinker with a lifetime of depression, anxiety, lack of self worth..... Now, some 30 years later I am merely going through the motions until my time has come. Many thanks. @@thePSYCHcollective
I have near amhrdonia. It happened in the wake if 2 things. A strong, anxious, fearful reaction to the antibiotic Levaquin. 3 months later, I had elective sinus surgery. I post op I was given the painkiller Dilaudud, and I had a bad allergic reaction and was hyperventilating. Worst pain I'd ever experienced. About 9 days later, when I got back in my work , social and hobby routines, nothing really fazed me. I'd go out with friends. Very bland emotionally. I didn't mind it, but I kept on for close to a year out if habit. Yet it didn't and still doesn't give me much of a feeling. Once zi go home, it's largely as if it never happened. No interest in romance. If something does make me laugh a little, it feels like coughing. Even skydiving didn't produce any significant rush. No more interest in sports cars or sport bikes. Even a day at Disneyworld was not enjoyable. It's the little things to. No motivation to cook or clean and when I do. There's little to no sense of accomplishment. Exercise doesn't help. Had psychotherapy, tried every med except fir MAOIs. Levaquin was later given the US FDA black box warning about creating or worsening psych issues, which I think had something to do with it. I have treatment resistant depression. The last thing to try is ECT, but because of central nervous system issues, I'm hesitant to try it
i Still believe I'm using Anhedonia correctly in my case because when I do stuff that I previously liked doing (watching TV shows and movies, playing my favorite video game), I don't get the "happiness". I don't get excited before doing them too
For me it’s actually painful to do things I used to enjoy because I’m reminded of how relaxed and comfortable I would feel and now I’m uncomfortable and in pain . It’s frustrating
I can’t be in a relationship because touch and sex is physically painful and uncomfortable and I can’t hide that . I feel it as a burning soreness in my scalp and head
It’s affecting my empathy too . I struggle to care about people because I’m in so much discomfort. I have to fake emotions and have done for quite a while
I get this when My dose of antipsychotic is too high and antidepressant is too low. Trying to balance an antidepressant and mood stabiliser and antipsychotic is so difficult but don’t give up folks it takes time but you can find a medication mix that works for you with manageable symptoms if medication is necessary for your condition
What you describe as true anhedonia was one of my Covid symptoms. It lasted for about 6 weeks, then it gradually went away. It was something I never experienced before, even though I know what depression and anxiety feel like - but this eery feeling was way different. Thanks for this accurate explanation!
In depression both are often the case: no energy, no motivation. Energy is everything. If you have no energy, because your energy ‘leeks’ away (due to trauma, for example), everything gets messed up.
Thank you for the comment. We explore how energy (arousal and motivation) are impacted by various medications in our new talk: Medications and mood. THE 5 DIALS ruclips.net/video/rOaGEk9E3MQ/видео.html
Anhedonia happens with post viral infection syndromes. ME, CFS, Long covid. As you describe. These conditions involve low ATP availability. Vit D if low can assist a little with improved volition.
Yup! As someone who’s been severely depressed in the past one of the most difficult parts is that when you do things you usually find enjoyable you don’t feel pleasure and it doesn’t improve your mood. I ended up taking St John’s Wort and felt better within days and made a full recovery after some reflection, self compassion and self care. Thankfully I never had to take proper psych drugs.
Sorry to hear about your circumstances. Are there any things like medications or substance withdrawal that are blunting your ability to experience positive emotion? Have you tried the experiment to make a warm bath more pleasurable by going from a cold shower to the warm bath?
My friend was the life of the party, class clown, Mr Social. He had a liver transplant and we were all so grateful but, then he could barely laugh or carry on a conversation. The transplant team called it depression and put him on antidepressants and had him see a psychologist, it didn't help becaue it wasn't depression. They kept saying it was depression. IT WAS NOT. It was Anhedonia. He wanted to get excited to go to concerts etc... but, nothing helped. He stayed this way for 2 years. Never once did the transplant team mention Anhedonia. I researched and found him treatment. It was Anhedonia and after treatments with Ketamine, he is himself again and his quality of life is improved. HE IS BACK!!! I am so grateful we found this. Unfortunately, at the time (3 years ago) insurance wasn't covering this. It is used for anestethia and at the time wasn't approved for Psyche issues. It is helping many with mental health issues but, alot of people do not know about this treatment
Hi I have suffered from intense physical anhedonia for two years now , my scalp is itching and sore and burning , and I can’t feel pleasure from physical things like eating , bathing , touch or sex. It drains me and makes life colourless and unpleasant . It’s also distressing. I have severe sexual dysfunction and can’t be in a relationship due to this awful symptom
Even small things like reading my favourite book is painful because it doesn’t feel good anymore , I can’t relax or get interested . It’s an awful absence in my line . I don’t even care about sex I just want the small things back
Same I feel like I’ve been chemically castrated , no pleasure in touch , sex, bathing or eating . As well as this I have had negative experiences with sex being FORCED on me even tho I couldn’t enjoy it or consent
Tbh it’s not just about sex even tho it’s depressing to think I’ll never enjoy it again , it’s about the discomfort I feel every day inside my head and scalp making me ill and unhappy
Sir, can antipsychotics like Seroquel cause anhedonia/avolition at low does or high doses ? I'm taking Seroquel 100 & Fluoxetine 40 for over a month, having bad dreams at night & excessive sleepiness, loss of interest, Is it true that Seroquel at low doses cause more sleep ??
At low doses the main effect is antihistamine sedation. At higher doses it blocks dopamine which can impact reward pathways and thereby can potentially contribute to anhedonia (opinion, controversial)
@@thePSYCHcollective Quetiapine ( Seroquel ) doesn't seem to produce any EPS, so not sure if dopamine blocking effects can actually come in such cases... Moreover, it blocks Dopamine only from 400 mg, so doses below it can be used for mood disorders like Depression( I guess 150-300 mg doses are approved for adjuncts in Depression )
It's 2 years later and in another country. I've got anhedonia. It's not about activating motion or activity. I'm preparing to pack for a 14 day cruise, something I've always loved. Travel is my jet fuel. It's just not the same. Right now just getting to the ship let alone packing seems like the worst torture. I'd just rather be in my bed. Big question is it possible for an SSRI to create or encourage anhedonia???
@@thePSYCHcollective Thank you for responding, so very 2 years after your video. I've just never felt like this, or had to deal with anything like this in my life. I was given a prescription for Citalopram by my GP when my Dad died. I'm still not over his passing. I just think that this psych med prescribed from an LPN has messed with me. I don't know? I'm just questioning everything and finding no answers. Thanks for the reply. ⚓
The solution the grief is crying and talking and writing. E.g. letters to your father. And more crying. Numbing the emotions with meds/substances etc is an alternative to facing the emotions. But then one can be stuck with unresolved grief AND chronic numbness. we explore how meds work in a video coming out tomorrow for our new book, The Depression Solution. www.thepsychcollective.com/resources/The-Depression-Solution-eBook-p697138761
Anhedonia is when even your (former) favorite activities bring you no joy and achieving happiness is impossible, or only occurs fleetingly. It's difficult to do anything, because everything sucks. And you only get it as a result of MDD, which is just fabulous as we all know. Add in 30 years of chronic pain. Mix, stir, and poof...anhedonia. It is a living nightmare.
Hi everyone! I would like to know some questions about the future treatments and possible ways we can help in getting better care for people with mental illnesses (especially anhedonia). Are there any clinical trials, that seems promising as a potential treatment for medication resistant anhedonia? In your clinical experience has anyone been suffering from very severe anhedonia for more than 5 years without a break and then miraculously recovered? I know that even if we could accurately measure the neurotransmitters that are transmitted between neurones it’s impossible to tell what that means in each individual. However, are there any promising imaging methods that could help map people’s brain that would give us answers about how our brains work and why some people develop serious mental illnesses? If we don’t mind “getting our hands dirty”, how can we help getting a treatment for sufferers faster? (I.e.: participating in some clinical trials, fundraising) IN YOUR OPINION. Thank you.
Not medical advise: Anhedonia seems to be about the most challenging symptom to deal with in depression. A difficulty with Anhedonia is that it interferes with behavioural and psychological approaches to depression. I’ll define anhedonia as the incapacity to experience positive emotion, as opposed to amotivation and anergia. So behavioural activation doesn’t seem to help much as there’s no positive emotion pay off like there is in other depressed states. Worse still the obvious absence of a positive emotion reward despite the effort causes more negative emotion. So what to do. Obviously address root causes of the depression is crucial. I touch on those here: ruclips.net/video/q4duMQMPG9Y/видео.html. But I’m about to release a eBook which will have much more info and practical approaches. Other approaches that can hit anhedonia are generic treatments like antidepressants. Antipsychotics can potentially make things worse because they interfere with dopamine signalling (explored here: ruclips.net/video/a4LgPQNXKzo/видео.html). Things which impact dopamine include dopaminergic meds such as bupropion and stimulant medications. There’s an indirect effect of serotonin on the 5HT2C receptor (which Valdoxan can target) which can impact dopamine. I hate prescribing ECT but it can be a game changer when someone’s life is shattered by anhedonia. I’m hopeful about psychedelics, the research is very promising, so watch that space too.
@@thePSYCHcollective I was not able to understand whether this part of your reply - "Things which impact dopamine include dopaminergic meds such as bupropion and stimulants" - indicated a positive impact, negative impact or variable impact? Some expansion would be greatly appreciated.
It complex and probably variable. Increasing dopamine can make people feel good acutely. But chronically activating dopamine may lead to dampening of the response to natural dopamine inducers (eg accomplishment and enjoying things)
@@thePSYCHcollective Thank you so much. And for your combined work in this field. You would know that empowering clients with insights and explanations from recent psychiatric research can lighten some of the misery and loss associated with these conditions. P.S. I never hear anything about 'micro-dosing' in stimulant treatments. Do you know if this approach has ever been tested?
Curious if you would want pro or anti dopanergic medicines for this. Would dopamine enhancing meds such as buroprion, MAOIs, or psychostimulants be better for true anhedonia or the avolition and anergia? In severe cases what about a tried and true pleasure pathway with something like buprenorphine?
A potential problem with dopaminergic drugs is the desensitisation to natural reward once they wear off. People use speed because it feels great, at first.
Thing is, a long period of anhedonia breeds strong avolition. I don't even know what I'm supposed to be motivated and excited about, because nothing gives me anything.
My friend had it after a transplant- He was not DEPRESSED- He had no pleasure in anything-After sufferring for 2 years, Ketamine treatment brought him back
@@زهراءزهراء-ش6ه3ح The place he went to said if they did not see results after 3 treatments they would not take his money ethically they would not continue. Although the person may not see the changes loved ones often will. So on the way home after his third session, I noticed slight changes. His voice was just a stronger and he had his old laughter just a little. So, they kept him. I believe it was 5 treatments but, in the first year, he needed to come back for 1-2 boosters. He hasn’t had to go back for years now. He also had a friend who had suffered from depression since they were young. She got treatments and called him to thank him because her life has never been this way. She only knew depression. I can’t remember what he paid. I think it may have been 500 per treatment or more. I had him ask the provider for what’s called a super bill and I told him to submit that to his health insurance. I’m not sure if he got some type of reimbursement or if he even submitted them.
what if i think i will get some enjoyment out of the activity i don’t wanna do and do it anyways but i receive only frustration and negativity bad experience instead? does it become CTPSD? because everything also sucks! so it becomes nihilism and anhedonia?
What about when you have all 3? Ive been struggling almost my whole life with this shit, and I cant get treatment because I probably cant get the ketamine therapy. Nobody understands, nobody gets it, i say im tired all the time, and they say "me too" like what the fuck? No not "you too"
I have horrible severe physical anhedonia . I can’t enjoy touch, sex , eating , bathing or socialising . I can’t be in a relationship due to the sexual dysfunction. I’m also having trouble being sexually harassed and abused by certain men . This makes the anhedonia worse and makes it even more difficult to enjoy consensual sex . I am so distracted I can’t work or do anything productive because of how bad the bullying is
I have said loads of times I don’t want to have sex , I’m angry and upset that people won’t listen to me . I am repulsed by men and sex currently due to the abusive behaviour of men. I don’t want to have sex with anyone , this was true even before the anhedonia
I kinda have the same, but I'm not raped by anyone. I've been this way nearly all my life. And I'm also autistic. Behaviorism won't work for my case, SSRIs are a scam, I feel like there is no way to fix myself in this world. Life feels like a job where I have to work all the time to keep myself alive but never get the salary no matter what I do.
Sometimes I drink too much as well because I find the anhedonia so uncomfortable and distressing . I can’t even have baths now because the hot water hurts my scalp and causes intense itchy neuropathic pain
@@Emu-lb4wc I can't say when exactly it started, I feel like it has always been this way, so it's a minimum of 10 years. I have documented making a comment 8 years ago in which I said that I don't experience any pleasure in my life so I'm not delusional about it.
Depression is a "chemical imbalance", lol. When you try to balance those chemicals -- and try to get off the medication -- that's when you really get depression. It's called anhedonia.
Interest & pleasure. That’s the issue, it’s used as a low resolution term which conflates multiple different issues. Technically anhedonia is the loss of pleasure. The loss of interest is usually avolition or anergia. Psychological approaches such as BA are helpful for avolition and anergia, but are less helpful for loss of pleasure .
Sir, Is Avolition related to Dopamine imbalance ? Because antipsychotics often improves these negative symptoms in Schizophrenia .
Positive emotion is related to dopamine; antipsychotics which block dopamine don’t seem to improve anhedonia and at high doses may even contribute to it (opinion). A common practice in psychiatry is to use Seroquel for insomnia. I’ve stopped doing that as I suspect it blunts positive emotion.
@@thePSYCHcollective But isn't Amisupride is used for Avolition in Schizophrenia?
@@ifrankensteinsmonster at low doses it blocks D2 autoreceptors only or mainly which increases dopamine release.
Fckin antipsychoc detroy the brain , this shit this fckin poison destroy me too bro sry for you , fckin psychatrist and they rotten pseudoscience
Antipsychotic medication quells dopamine activity, the very chemical that is lacking in anhedonia.
It is mainly used for mania and schizoaffective disorder. Contraindicated in depression
This was SO GOOD.
As a primary care provider, I appreciate the distinction & necessity to use words correctly because it determines proper treatment. ❤
Reminder at 5:05 :"If you´re trying to propell yourself into some sort of activity, keep it basic:
>Body care
>Achivement
>Socialization
>Interests
>Cleaning"
Note for myself and everyone else x
I do NONE of these things.
It is extremely difficult to eradicate I have found these past 20 years once it set in from regular nightly drinking. I never had it before I became chemically dependent on alcohol. I know it is this that has caused mine to linger. @emu1028
I am now trying music and it seems to help....@emu1028
I've been suffering with anhedonia for 4 years. It's absolutely horrible. I can't even remember what pleasure feels like
I've been feeling it for roughly a year now. Very rapidly getting worse now. 29 years old.
I read a comment that said St. John's Wort helped them. I'll give that a try and maybe you could as well, to see what works.
@@Un1234l You could also try omega-3 fish oil. It's amazing.
@Colin Your comment on time is interesting. Perhaps you can identify if an event or experience four years ago may have been a precursor for your anhedonia? If so, that might offer a specific focus for your own treatment. /I well remember the excruciating physical pain and isolation of Anhedonia. An unbearable way to exist. I recall the first time I read the words "hollowed out feeling" - it caused a bolt of recognition. /One day in 2014 I was hunched in a café. I'd not had a bath for a couple of weeks. Very shut down in all my capacities. A well groomed lady was seated near me, reading a book. She had been visiting a Compounding Pharmacist for tailored prescriptions for her depression. Her book had been recommended by the pharmacist. It was called "The Mood Cure", by Julia Ross, from San Francisco, working in the field of nutritional psychology. (my copy published 2002, available online.) I knew instantly that the word "Cure" was to be stepped around cautiously. Americans like to talk big!! Reading sections of the book helped me along the path to daily supplements of Amino Acids. If I had the money, I should probably visit a Compounding Pharmacist to review what I've been taking. (They're big chargers!). Am I perfectly cured? No. But I have not experienced that soul leeching hollowed out feeling for some years. I think I could say that the lower levels of living with depression were raised. (Regrettably the covid years have coincided with some regression for me.) /As it is three months since your comment, I hope you have begun to experience some pleasures in your life again.
Same. Does ANYTHING help?
@Emu I would pay 100k for the person that could help me cure this
I have felt like this for a long time. I grew up in a household that was really dysfunctional. My dad was a horrible person all around, and mentally / physically abusive. My mother had issues of her own. (Who's parents dont these days). He obviously hated his life so; he must have thought it was just fine to make mine the same. Growing up as a teen (I'm 20 now) I'd get hit for smiling or just being happy in general.
Any sign of happiness that I felt around him, I was definitely going to be punished for it, one way or another. That went on pretty much every day, since I was 10. I had no way to escape it so, I just let it happen. I'm not sure if it was done on purpose or not but, he got what he wanted from it! I can barely hold a job, I have no friends or other family to talk to about it. No girlfriend or social life.
Therapy and meds haven't helped either. I just feel completely numb. I don't ever smile/laugh...I just blankly stare. (I mastered the fake smile though). I called him to see if we could get some coffee and catch up with things but, that never happened. Talking to him on the phone, he told me he was diagnosed with brain cancer.
Honestly when he said it, I just felt a big relief come over me. It almost felt wrong to feel relief, hearing him diagnosed with that but, it didn't at the same time. I didn't cry or anything for him, just told him I'm sorry. I texted him about a month later and tried to get him to explain why he treated me like that, and how it made me turn out. He just changed the subject. No...I'm sorry, or any type of feelings you would expect a parent to show to your child.
3 months later he passed away. Even then I still felt nothing. No tears...just some relief and calmness. I'm not saying all this for pity but to tell my story. (Maybe someone can relate). That and don't be afraid to ask for help if you are in a situation like this. There are people that can help get you out of that. (It's very important, especially when you are young.) It's not worth the mental health problems that come with it, later on in life.
my story is kinda similar but where im at now... 35 years old. move back into my parents. now im suffering even more. don't want to get into details but i just never wanted to live. very much so as im typing this. wish i just never existed.
@@ccxfrank109 I'm sorry. It is a very hard way to grow up, having to deal with that. I do hope we can both find peace with it someday.
Medications can potentially numb both negative and positive emotions. So sometimes the answer is less meds, despite the reflex action to increase meds.
True
Good video. I've had depression for a few years, according to some therapists and professionals, and could have other mental health illnesses aswell or instead. I didn't know the symptom was anhedonia until recently. When I have tried doing things, from washing up, to fishing, I not only don't get enjoyment during or after, but I seem to get worse, because I'm annoyed that I don't get the enjoyment. It's like everything I do just makes me worse. Therapists don't seem to get this and they tell me to just get on with it and get the chores done, like I've just given up easily, when I haven't given up easily, I've tried so hard but found it is futile trying any more. They also don't seem to take into account that I don't enjoy my hobbies anymore, they think I just can't be bothered with household chores, so they are giving me so much unsuitable help.
I have this, but coupled with debilitating panic attacks. It's hell. Hope you get well soon.
@@paulflint6254 I've been lucky to not have many panic attacks like that, the couple I had were bad enough. I hope you get better soon too.
@@mharris7380 I so get this! Thank you for sharing your experience I feel the same and needed medication not more guilt and frustration from people therapists telling me that I would feel better if I did these things and then not believing me when I felt worse afterwards. Medication got me past the loss of pleasure from doing things so that even tho I found it very hard to do things I could feel a sense of reward and relief abd sometimes pleasure when I could get going
To me, it seems impossible to overcome. I'm also autistic with demand avoidance and ADHD on top of depression and no desire to do anything at all, ever. I just will not do it, no matter how much i have enjoyed it in the past. Scheduling, signing up for things, making plans, to-do lists are just "no, no, no". My brain switches off at the mere mention of such things.
Same here. How to find out…
My friend gets this when she doesn’t take her antidepressant and her Ritalin because of adhd and the low dopamine she has from adhd. She also has ASD and she doesn’t like her Ritalin but she knows if she doesn’t take her Ritalin and antidepressant she will end up with anadonia and become completely miserable and unable to get anything started or finished or focus and her life becomes unmanageable another friend of mine with adhd manages this with an antidepressant venalafaxine and no Ritalin he’s got no concentration but he’s not got anadonia if he’s on the antidepressant he also has ASD 1 or what they used to call Asperger’s
@savingpeace8452
Amphetamines are very dopamingeric and daily use likely down-regulates dopamine receptors. That makes real world things feel less and less rewarding (with long term daily use). Tolerance and dose creep are signs of this.
Rebound anhedonia when they are stopped after daily long term use is common.
Coming off amphetamines often causes anhedonia until the receptors up regulate (recovery). This is the predicament we see in addiction to stimulants like speed and cocaine. This is why they are hard to stop.
There’s a notion that this doesn’t apply to ADHD which makes no sense to me. Why would an ADHD brain have a special ability to not experience the tolerance and the down sides of down regulation?
ADHD patients often start off only needing 1-2 tablets and with daily use this commonly increases to 6 a day.
->That’s tolerance/down regulation.
The higher the dose the higher the rebound anhedonia.
None of this is to say they don’t have a role and that they are helpful in adhd, they can be transformative for people. I just don’t advocate daily use of them. I do generally advocate taking regular breaks where that is possible.
Here’s a discussion about how they work:
ruclips.net/video/jGZFv1bldHU/видео.html
@@thePSYCHcollective yes absolutely and this is why my friend who needs them is on a schedule that is meant to stop this or perhaps reduce the risk she takes her Ritalin 3-4 days a week on her work days and then has a 4-5 day break because her psychiatrist told her that otherwise she would become addicted to them.
Hopefully this reflects psychiatrists beginning to understand that of course people with adhd are still susceptible to chemical dependency as anyone is! And we see this in those higher rates of people with adhd using illicit substances particularly meth here in Nz to treat their adhd
Wow...the second person ever who defines Anhedonia for what it is and not confusing it with "emotional blunting".
Emotional blunting can lead to anhedonia. But not all anhedonia is blunting!
Fatigue is a massive component: emotion/physical/mental fatigue can all contribute to reduced capacity for positive emotion and anhedonia.
Who was the first person?
Very good channel! I have subscribed from Australia. My first experience of Anhedonia certainly came AFTER I became a self medicating heavy drinker with a lifetime of depression, anxiety, lack of self worth..... Now, some 30 years later I am merely going through the motions until my time has come. Many thanks. @@thePSYCHcollective
I have near amhrdonia. It happened in the wake if 2 things. A strong, anxious, fearful reaction to the antibiotic Levaquin. 3 months later, I had elective sinus surgery. I post op I was given the painkiller Dilaudud, and I had a bad allergic reaction and was hyperventilating. Worst pain I'd ever experienced.
About 9 days later, when I got back in my work , social and hobby routines, nothing really fazed me. I'd go out with friends. Very bland emotionally. I didn't mind it, but I kept on for close to a year out if habit. Yet it didn't and still doesn't give me much of a feeling. Once zi go home, it's largely as if it never happened. No interest in romance. If something does make me laugh a little, it feels like coughing. Even skydiving didn't produce any significant rush. No more interest in sports cars or sport bikes. Even a day at Disneyworld was not enjoyable.
It's the little things to. No motivation to cook or clean and when I do. There's little to no sense of accomplishment. Exercise doesn't help. Had psychotherapy, tried every med except fir MAOIs.
Levaquin was later given the US FDA black box warning about creating or worsening psych issues, which I think had something to do with it. I have treatment resistant depression. The last thing to try is ECT, but because of central nervous system issues, I'm hesitant to try it
i Still believe I'm using Anhedonia correctly in my case because when I do stuff that I previously liked doing (watching TV shows and movies, playing my favorite video game), I don't get the "happiness". I don't get excited before doing them too
For me it’s actually painful to do things I used to enjoy because I’m reminded of how relaxed and comfortable I would feel and now I’m uncomfortable and in pain . It’s frustrating
I can’t be in a relationship because touch and sex is physically painful and uncomfortable and I can’t hide that . I feel it as a burning soreness in my scalp and head
My quality of life is very low at the moment . Everything is uncomfortable and unfulfilling and unsatisfying
It’s affecting my empathy too . I struggle to care about people because I’m in so much discomfort. I have to fake emotions and have done for quite a while
I get this when My dose of antipsychotic is too high and antidepressant is too low. Trying to balance an antidepressant and mood stabiliser and antipsychotic is so difficult but don’t give up folks it takes time but you can find a medication mix that works for you with manageable symptoms if medication is necessary for your condition
What you describe as true anhedonia was one of my Covid symptoms. It lasted for about 6 weeks, then it gradually went away. It was something I never experienced before, even though I know what depression and anxiety feel like - but this eery feeling was way different. Thanks for this accurate explanation!
Not true
Mine has lasted two years it’s very lucky for it just to ‘go away’
I can’t even laugh my anhedonia is so bad . Literally mirthless
@@Emu-lb4wc she was on meds
In depression both are often the case: no energy, no motivation. Energy is everything. If you have no energy, because your energy ‘leeks’ away (due to trauma, for example), everything gets messed up.
Thank you for the comment. We explore how energy (arousal and motivation) are impacted by various medications in our new talk: Medications and mood. THE 5 DIALS
ruclips.net/video/rOaGEk9E3MQ/видео.html
Anhedonia happens with post viral infection syndromes.
ME, CFS, Long covid. As you describe.
These conditions involve low ATP availability.
Vit D if low can assist a little with improved volition.
Psych meds are the main cause of anhedonia.
Yup! As someone who’s been severely depressed in the past one of the most difficult parts is that when you do things you usually find enjoyable you don’t feel pleasure and it doesn’t improve your mood. I ended up taking St John’s Wort and felt better within days and made a full recovery after some reflection, self compassion and self care. Thankfully I never had to take proper psych drugs.
Sorry to hear about your circumstances.
Are there any things like medications or substance withdrawal that are blunting your ability to experience positive emotion?
Have you tried the experiment to make a warm bath more pleasurable by going from a cold shower to the warm bath?
@Emu I find pleasant scents to be very therapeutic. Try adding essential oils to the bath
@Emu hi, would you like to get in touch? Im interested in your story and how you are dealing with it at the moment.
This is basically summarizing the problems of the most recent ten years of my life
My friend was the life of the party, class clown, Mr Social. He had a liver transplant and we were all so grateful but, then he could barely laugh or carry on a conversation. The transplant team called it depression and put him on antidepressants and had him see a psychologist, it didn't help becaue it wasn't depression. They kept saying it was depression. IT WAS NOT. It was Anhedonia. He wanted to get excited to go to concerts etc... but, nothing helped. He stayed this way for 2 years. Never once did the transplant team mention Anhedonia. I researched and found him treatment. It was Anhedonia and after treatments with Ketamine, he is himself again and his quality of life is improved. HE IS BACK!!! I am so grateful we found this. Unfortunately, at the time (3 years ago) insurance wasn't covering this. It is used for anestethia and at the time wasn't approved for Psyche issues. It is helping many with mental health issues but, alot of people do not know about this treatment
Nice. Could we Text via email.?
Looking for the story from positive side. Need to believe, I am 2,5 years in this horror
Hi I have suffered from intense physical anhedonia for two years now , my scalp is itching and sore and burning , and I can’t feel pleasure from physical things like eating , bathing , touch or sex. It drains me and makes life colourless and unpleasant . It’s also distressing. I have severe sexual dysfunction and can’t be in a relationship due to this awful symptom
Even small things like reading my favourite book is painful because it doesn’t feel good anymore , I can’t relax or get interested . It’s an awful absence in my line . I don’t even care about sex I just want the small things back
@@Emu-lb4wc my friend had anhedonia for 2 years after liver transplant- Ketamine infusions took it away-Just FYI
I have no energy or motivation and have been suffering for the past 4 years...its an absolutely miserable way to exist.
Same I feel like I’ve been chemically castrated , no pleasure in touch , sex, bathing or eating . As well as this I have had negative experiences with sex being FORCED on me even tho I couldn’t enjoy it or consent
Tbh it’s not just about sex even tho it’s depressing to think I’ll never enjoy it again , it’s about the discomfort I feel every day inside my head and scalp making me ill and unhappy
I feel the same, completely lobotomized
How are you guys feeling now? All the best to you
@@Momochanhehe I actually went on TRT and have started feeling much better.
Appreciate the detail, thanks. 🙏🏻
Sir, can antipsychotics like Seroquel cause anhedonia/avolition at low does or high doses ? I'm taking Seroquel 100 & Fluoxetine 40 for over a month, having bad dreams at night & excessive sleepiness, loss of interest, Is it true that Seroquel at low doses cause more sleep ??
At low doses the main effect is antihistamine sedation. At higher doses it blocks dopamine which can impact reward pathways and thereby can potentially contribute to anhedonia (opinion, controversial)
@@thePSYCHcollective Quetiapine ( Seroquel ) doesn't seem to produce any EPS, so not sure if dopamine blocking effects can actually come in such cases... Moreover, it blocks Dopamine only from 400 mg, so doses below it can be used for mood disorders like Depression( I guess 150-300 mg doses are approved for adjuncts in Depression )
What's your take on microdosing on psychedelics or ketamine?
Thanks for all your work you're putting out there 😊
Uploader just seems intent on leaving love hearts rather than answer any important questions. But I say do it, psychedelics are safer than coffee.
Thank you
It's 2 years later and in another country. I've got anhedonia. It's not about activating motion or activity. I'm preparing to pack for a 14 day cruise, something I've always loved. Travel is my jet fuel.
It's just not the same. Right now just getting to the ship let alone packing seems like the worst torture. I'd just rather be in my bed.
Big question is it possible for an SSRI to create or encourage anhedonia???
If a medication is making you feel emotionally numb, then it might be contributing to anhedonia.
@@thePSYCHcollective Thank you for responding, so very 2 years after your video. I've just never felt like this, or had to deal with anything like this in my life. I was given a prescription for Citalopram by my GP when my Dad died. I'm still not over his passing.
I just think that this psych med prescribed from an LPN has messed with me. I don't know? I'm just questioning everything and finding no answers.
Thanks for the reply. ⚓
The solution the grief is crying and talking and writing. E.g. letters to your father. And more crying. Numbing the emotions with meds/substances etc is an alternative to facing the emotions. But then one can be stuck with unresolved grief AND chronic numbness. we explore how meds work in a video coming out tomorrow for our new book, The Depression Solution.
www.thepsychcollective.com/resources/The-Depression-Solution-eBook-p697138761
How about an SSRI induced anhedonia?
Good point.
Meds can cause emotional numbing.
Sometimes to the point of anhedonia.
@@thePSYCHcollective SSRIs, SNRIs are the worst when it comes to emotional numbing
What to do if SSRIs themselves caused my Anhedonia and PSSD?
Some people find that reducing the dose can help. But talk to your doc before making changes
Anhedonia is when even your (former) favorite activities bring you no joy and achieving happiness is impossible, or only occurs fleetingly.
It's difficult to do anything, because everything sucks.
And you only get it as a result of MDD, which is just fabulous as we all know. Add in 30 years of chronic pain. Mix, stir, and poof...anhedonia.
It is a living nightmare.
Hi everyone!
I would like to know some questions about the future treatments and possible ways we can help in getting better care for people with mental illnesses (especially anhedonia).
Are there any clinical trials, that seems promising as a potential treatment for medication resistant anhedonia?
In your clinical experience has anyone been suffering from very severe anhedonia for more than 5 years without a break and then miraculously recovered?
I know that even if we could accurately measure the neurotransmitters that are transmitted between neurones it’s impossible to tell what that means in each individual. However, are there any promising imaging methods that could help map people’s brain that would give us answers about how our brains work and why some people develop serious mental illnesses?
If we don’t mind “getting our hands dirty”, how can we help getting a treatment for sufferers faster? (I.e.: participating in some clinical trials, fundraising) IN YOUR OPINION.
Thank you.
Not medical advise:
Anhedonia seems to be about the most challenging symptom to deal with in depression. A difficulty with Anhedonia is that it interferes with behavioural and psychological approaches to depression.
I’ll define anhedonia as the incapacity to experience positive emotion, as opposed to amotivation and anergia. So behavioural activation doesn’t seem to help much as there’s no positive emotion pay off like there is in other depressed states. Worse still the obvious absence of a positive emotion reward despite the effort causes more negative emotion.
So what to do. Obviously address root causes of the depression is crucial. I touch on those here: ruclips.net/video/q4duMQMPG9Y/видео.html. But I’m about to release a eBook which will have much more info and practical approaches.
Other approaches that can hit anhedonia are generic treatments like antidepressants. Antipsychotics can potentially make things worse because they interfere with dopamine signalling (explored here: ruclips.net/video/a4LgPQNXKzo/видео.html).
Things which impact dopamine include dopaminergic meds such as bupropion and stimulant medications. There’s an indirect effect of serotonin on the 5HT2C receptor (which Valdoxan can target) which can impact dopamine.
I hate prescribing ECT but it can be a game changer when someone’s life is shattered by anhedonia.
I’m hopeful about psychedelics, the research is very promising, so watch that space too.
@@thePSYCHcollective I was not able to understand whether this part of your reply - "Things which impact dopamine include dopaminergic meds such as bupropion and stimulants" - indicated a positive impact, negative impact or variable impact? Some expansion would be greatly appreciated.
It complex and probably variable. Increasing dopamine can make people feel good acutely. But chronically activating dopamine may lead to dampening of the response to natural dopamine inducers (eg accomplishment and enjoying things)
@@thePSYCHcollective Thank you so much. And for your combined work in this field. You would know that empowering clients with insights and explanations from recent psychiatric research can lighten some of the misery and loss associated with these conditions. P.S. I never hear anything about 'micro-dosing' in stimulant treatments. Do you know if this approach has ever been tested?
Life is misery
No, it isn't
Curious if you would want pro or anti dopanergic medicines for this. Would dopamine enhancing meds such as buroprion, MAOIs, or psychostimulants be better for true anhedonia or the avolition and anergia? In severe cases what about a tried and true pleasure pathway with something like buprenorphine?
A potential problem with dopaminergic drugs is the desensitisation to natural reward once they wear off.
People use speed because it feels great, at first.
Thing is, a long period of anhedonia breeds strong avolition.
I don't even know what I'm supposed to be motivated and excited about, because nothing gives me anything.
Is anhedonia permenent
No it isn’t usually permanent.
But it can feel that way.
My friend had it after a transplant- He was not DEPRESSED- He had no pleasure in anything-After sufferring for 2 years, Ketamine treatment brought him back
@@katy-t6hhow many doses of katamine did he have? And how muuch did it cost
@@زهراءزهراء-ش6ه3ح The place he went to said if they did not see results after 3 treatments they would not take his money ethically they would not continue. Although the person may not see the changes loved ones often will. So on the way home after his third session, I noticed slight changes. His voice was just a stronger and he had his old laughter just a little. So, they kept him. I believe it was 5 treatments but, in the first year, he needed to come back for 1-2 boosters. He hasn’t had to go back for years now. He also had a friend who had suffered from depression since they were young. She got treatments and called him to thank him because her life has never been this way. She only knew depression. I can’t remember what he paid. I think it may have been 500 per treatment or more. I had him ask the provider for what’s called a super bill and I told him to submit that to his health insurance. I’m not sure if he got some type of reimbursement or if he even submitted them.
very hard to get motivated to anything but die ...lived long enough ...all down hill from here...
what if i think i will get some enjoyment out of the activity i don’t wanna do and do it anyways but i receive only frustration and negativity bad experience instead?
does it become CTPSD? because everything also sucks! so it becomes nihilism and anhedonia?
I don't have any positive emotion ....at all. Not for 22 years. Fighting the urge to S****** for that long. Is Anhedonia the correct term for this?
Did you get checked out by a medical doctor in terms of physical health?
Please help does haldol cause anhedonia
It potentially can
what are the 3#stressrelief #hormones?#sideeffects of #anxiety#depression#adrenaline #female#love!
ruclips.net/video/QI7Nnyau_D8/видео.html
The biggest instigator is excess alcohol self medication. I am convinced of this.@@thePSYCHcollective
Can I get a MRI scan to detect anhedonia ???
No. But anhedonia is usually obvious. Fatigue is a major factor
What about when you have all 3? Ive been struggling almost my whole life with this shit, and I cant get treatment because I probably cant get the ketamine therapy.
Nobody understands, nobody gets it, i say im tired all the time, and they say "me too" like what the fuck? No not "you too"
Hello, I couldn't find the handout sheat u mentionned for the activation activities. Can you please help? Thank you
I cannot find it on the resources page either
@@Seborben Its up now. www.thepsychcollective.com/resources/Mood-c114457264
It's up now www.thepsychcollective.com/resources/Mood-c114457264
I have horrible severe physical anhedonia . I can’t enjoy touch, sex , eating , bathing or socialising . I can’t be in a relationship due to the sexual dysfunction. I’m also having trouble being sexually harassed and abused by certain men . This makes the anhedonia worse and makes it even more difficult to enjoy consensual sex . I am so distracted I can’t work or do anything productive because of how bad the bullying is
I have said loads of times I don’t want to have sex , I’m angry and upset that people won’t listen to me . I am repulsed by men and sex currently due to the abusive behaviour of men. I don’t want to have sex with anyone , this was true even before the anhedonia
I kinda have the same, but I'm not raped by anyone. I've been this way nearly all my life. And I'm also autistic. Behaviorism won't work for my case, SSRIs are a scam, I feel like there is no way to fix myself in this world. Life feels like a job where I have to work all the time to keep myself alive but never get the salary no matter what I do.
Same how long have you had anhedonia for ? I have had it for two years it’s very distressing and painful for me to live with
Sometimes I drink too much as well because I find the anhedonia so uncomfortable and distressing . I can’t even have baths now because the hot water hurts my scalp and causes intense itchy neuropathic pain
@@Emu-lb4wc I can't say when exactly it started, I feel like it has always been this way, so it's a minimum of 10 years. I have documented making a comment 8 years ago in which I said that I don't experience any pleasure in my life so I'm not delusional about it.
SAME, I HAVE BEEN SIX MONTHS OFF ZOLOFT AND STILL LIVING IN HELL!
the worst nightmare all meds made feeling anhedonia worse and there is no treatment for it horrible condition i cant live for 7 years
Isn’t that just depression?
Depression is a "chemical imbalance", lol. When you try to balance those chemicals -- and try to get off the medication -- that's when you really get depression. It's called anhedonia.
She said “Words you all probably haven’t heard of”. 😂
I love the ego, intelligence and beauty 😍
Loss of interest and pleasure in previously enjoyed actives - KUBULA -PCO __Uganda
Interest & pleasure. That’s the issue, it’s used as a low resolution term which conflates multiple different issues. Technically anhedonia is the loss of pleasure. The loss of interest is usually avolition or anergia. Psychological approaches such as BA are helpful for avolition and anergia, but are less helpful for loss of pleasure .
@@thePSYCHcollective thanks so much for the details 💪💪