I have both, and you're correct about frontfiring being easier to blend with small speakers but a downfiring sub packs a bit more spectacle with real low frequency by actually making the floor move under you.
@@Bharatverse308 depends what's under the wood. If it's only wood between you and the room below you then downfiring is not optimal. If there's concrete under the wood then downfiring is no problem.
I have a Klipsch Synergy 7.1 Surround Sound speaker system. My sub is the Klipsch SW-450, which is downfiring. My flooring is a real hardwood floor. So for my sub I placed a towel under it and raised it off the floor with bricks under each leg of the sub. I also covered the bricks with cloth and hard foam. I also performed the subwoofer crawl. I consider my room size sort of small to medium (15 ft. wide by 21 feet length, ceiling height 7.5 ft.)
I use dual bottom firing subs. One in the front left of my living room and one in the right rear. I set my 5 bookself size speakers to large in the settings. I love the crispness of the sound I get.
Great Video, yes that's a very tricky question & you're right there's no one answer & sometimes it just comes down to personal preference. I've a combination of both downfiring & forward firing subs in the main living area. I've a 7.2.4 home theater setup, I'm currently running the Denon 3800H Receiver with the Emotiva BasX A5 power amplifier & all Klipsch Speakers (4) rp-280f (1) rp-404c (4) rp-500sa (2) rp250s (1) spl-120 (1) r-8sw, But in my bedroom I've a 5.1 set up with a down firing sub. I've always loved down firing subwoofers they just hit differently if you know what I mean
@@coolmonkey5269 I’ve oak wood floors, hits differently means with the down firing subwoofer you can feel the bass vibrating through the entire flooring in that space not to mention the tremors I feel whenever I’m in the basement
Thanks, Andrew for answering this question. I would add that some people consider "Bookshelf" speakers distinct from "stand-mounted," and sometimes (as an exception to the general rule) the latter might extend a fair bit lower than true bookshelf-sized speakers. For example, my stand-mounted speakers claim to reach down to 42Hz prior to any low freq. rolloff, placing them more into the category of floor standers (i.e., full range speakers). In this case I would be ore comfortable with a down-firing sub.
This is absolutely correct. Some stand mount speakers can comfortably reach well into the bass range where directionality of the subwoofer output is not an issue.
I actually had a infinity 12'' down firing sub woofer that worked great with two Yamaha concert series book shelf speakers. I didn't have the center channel speaker connected. I used the Auvio wireless system to send the signal from my TV to the sub woofer, than hard wired the two book shelf speakers from the sub woofers output jacks.
Absolutely brilliant, comprehensive and detailed overview of this very tricky topic/decision process. You've possibly addressed this in the most digestible way, even for a newcomer. Tie this video to a crossover educational video and you'll have the makings of a very seriously lacking, educational aspect of these seemingly simple and nuanced topics. Great job as always and thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences with us.
Couldn't agree more! For us high rise dwellers, downward firing subs are an anathema to our downstairs neighbors. :( On a different note, I wonder if over the years, the suspension of down firing drivers might cause sag compared to forward firing drivers.
Good point…noise transmission will be more of an issue with a down-firing subwoofer in most setups. Suspension sag will be an issue in either case after many years of use, but down-firing would likely suffer more.
I found this video, researching a DIY home theatre subwoofer build project, to supplement my Klipsch R-8SW sub. I have seen a few of your videos, previously. I have to say, I really like your presentation style: you are to the point, on topic, & with clear explanations. Thanks. You deserve way more subs (excuse the pun), than you have.
Great video as always. I've had this same question for a long time. It seems that years ago when home theater was pretty new, down firing was the majority, now that seems to have flipped. I have a Hsu Research sub that I bought years ago. I absolutely love the thing. My theater/stereo system is in what I would call a "small, medium sized room" with a suspended wood frame floor with carpeting (over a basement), and wood framed walls with drywall. It pairs very well with my M80s. What you say about "bookshelf" speakers makes perfect sense. If you are depending on the subwoofer to deliver a portion of the total frequency range above the normal subwoofer level, I can totally see where you would want a front firing sub for that. If I was in the market for a sub, I would try to audition both styles, but I have no complaints with the Hsu. I will also add that I have a home theater/stereo setup in the basement as well and it has a front firing JBL sub, with my Mirage FRX-7s. Nothing fancy about the sub, but I do notice clear well defined bass in the room and I always wondered if it was because the floor was carpeted over concrete, if the firing direction was responsible for that amount of bass in the room. No floor loading down there I'm sure.
Even carpeted there's going to be some floor loading over concrete. The carpet will damp that loading somewhat. Glad you enjoyed the video, and thanks for sharing your systems.
Hi Andrew I'm really grateful at the time you made this video. This video showed up in my homepage after watching the DTS disappearing video after 10:20 on 11/3. I have 2 Vizio 6" down firing subwoofers that put out amazing bass sound on my carpeted 2nd floor wooden flooring. You want to know what is super cool ? When I'm watching movies with high volume when my subs go full active that sound doesn't resonate so low to bother my neighbors from across the hall or down stair neighbors with bass overload. Most of it stays in my room. I can hear it in the hallway but I don't keep the setting at high volume that in the hallway it isn't so loud that it is bothering anybody else. I never got a complaint with any low bass or vibrations. I disagree on the issue with one versus other when it comes to subwoofers and bookshelf speakers. Down firing subwoofers come with some Soundbars and some also have basic satellite speakers too. On Soundbars you can adjust adjust bass and treble and you can adjust levels to the speakers. I have 2 Insignia 2 way bookshelf speakers that are connected to sub. All of my speakers are in balance on every setting except for my height channels that I set to a higher level. My 2 small size bookshelf speakers connected to my Vizio 5.1 ( via the sub )sound bar connected by a fiber optical cable to the TV they are very compatible. My subs do the primary bass along with the subs on the 9 speaker sound bar and the bookshelf speakers only puts out other bass when it's being told to do it. Dolby True HD and DTS X works. If I don't hear bass from the loudspeakers then I know it's not the speakers fault. I believe my Vizio TV is only telling the subs what sounds to produce to the satellite speakers. It's up to the user to make the subwoofer and bookshelf speakers work together and down firing can be adjusted for an excellent Dolby Atmos experience. My next speaker purchase is 3 way bookshelf speakers that I want to upgrade to from my Aiwa 1 way speakers. Listen, you're not wrong at all you're coming from a point of view from the amplifier hook up from a receiver and a calibrated front firing in phase subwoofer. My point is the subwoofer to a sound bar, to a TV that is so easily gets all speakers to be in phase throughout the 5.1 system is testament to how well Vizio engineers designed the system to be compatible to work together. I think what you're referring to is front firing subs need to be calibrated and sound bar sets with a 5.1 set up just need to be only adjusted to the listening pleasure of the owner that is best for them. For people that buy a Complete sound bar set up with down firing sub this video doesn't help for the skimpy one way satellite speaker upgrade to a 2 way or 3 way bookshelf speaker set up with down firing sub included. Maybe you were also on to something at the time. As great as my Insignia 2 way speakers are at unlocking more sound that I don't hear from my other satellites maybe from that myth down firing subwoofers and loudspeaker bass don't go together maybe that is why the soundbar manufactures cheap out by including 1 way speaker satellites because they want to speakers never to have much bass so beginner never has a clue that what they truely missing from loud speakers.
This is part 2 on my comment. I meant to seperate it. I plan on buying 2 Isolated Subwoofer platforms to make my down firing 6" Subwoofers to be better in my room with better acoustic bass than standing on a thin piece of cardboard on carpet flooring. I want as much sound to travel out than being absorbed by carpet fibers and be higher off the floor. People can also buy Subwoofer isolation feet. So in 2024 with subwoofer accessories. I'm still not sure if this video is relevant for making front firing subs to be a better choice and are better compadible with bookshelf speakers than down firing subs or not? You did mention the variables on flooring but with new isolation pads & feet I still can't picture how front firing speakers are better for matching subs to bookshelf speakers when it comes to being front subs are in phase and down firing subs can be out of phase even when using sub isolation accessories are being used? My previous comment goes further in detail how my system set up works great with 2 down firing subs and satellite speakers with 2 bookshelf speakers. I wonder, even though I have a perfect set up if a case is going to be made in defense of front firing subwoofers that if I add 2 isolation platforms that my Vizio subs will still not sound compatible with my 2 way Bookshelf speakers that still puts out good bass when it's needed.
Like always Andrew, fantastic presentation. You sure remember the OM 6 subwoofer was side-firing, and sometime after the Speakers replacement of the OM 6 was the OM 5 with a front-firing subwoofer, so my question is what is the main difference or advantage of designing a side-firing subwoofer compared to side-firing
Thank you! The side-firing woofers were great for cancelling cabinet vibrations but did not work too well if the speakers needed to sit close to a wall or cabinet. The advantage of the front woofers in the OM-5 was more placement flexibility and better integration with the midranges.
With forward firing have them present also…allow the downfiring sub fill the room similar to firing subwoofer into corner of room ..reflections will fill room and blend with forward firing speakers and surrounds. 6th order series vented certainly a option down fire both ports ch 1 upper and low chamber 2 port chamber 2 into chamber 1 and then port chamber 1 to floor …get both back and front of subs output out of down fire port to fill the room with low frequencies and not sounding one directional counterplots output to blend with floor or bookshelf speakers. Low frequencies are present and location of source is not coming from one particular location in the room. Clearesnce from floor…rule of thumb use half the diameter of subs cone clearance
Base is non directional.. the only thing that matters is time alignment.. so that has more to do with port direction then sub direction. Then you have to account for the fact you don’t hear the sound till it reverbs or bounces off a hard surface.. in a general home theater situation down fire with a rear port would technically be the best overall for all situations cause of time alignment assuming the sub is back against a wall so the port can load properly. My personal fav for both home and car audio is front facing and rear port.. if the distance of your couch is the approximate same as the distance of your sub port from the wall.. when the wave off the cone hits the wall behind you and come back it will mostly correctly align with the port wave bouncing off the wall behind the sub and coming to you.. Keep in mind people that you do not physically hear or perceive sound till that pressure wave hits a hard surface and then returns back to your ear.. so if you have a front facing sealed box sub with a sectional that is in an open floor plan setup so you’re in the middle of the room.. you’re going to be way behind in the sound cause that wave has to hit the first hard surface behind you and come back before you can hear it.. in this there is no way around it unless you have high end processor and mics to tune the time alignment properly.. In general.. if you have open floor plan room you’ll get the best experience most times down firing.. if you have a typical tv in wall sub against wall under or next to it.. and couch directly across the room against another wall.. you kinda can’t mess that up unless you have forward cone and forward port in which case you’ll have a slight time alignment mismatch between cone wave and port wave but will only be noticeable near the port tuning. Second thing.. if you’re still going sealed then stop it lol.. you’re losing soo much performance doing that and you have less ways to properly tune it. If you have a sealed sub in open floor plan.. you’ll actually be best served turning the box around and facing it to the wall behind it.. the issue there is you’ll need radiois kf the sub away from the wall to load properly.. so a 10” needs 5” from the wall.. 12” 6” etc.. For this into car audio this also applies.. Any down fire sub you need small feet.. the sound needs to travel 360* or you’ll not get proper timing or even extension honestly. If even one side of the box contacts the floor you’ll need radius distance off the floor to load it properly.. id still argue and the data will suggest.. you still want this for proper loading otherwise you’ll get impedance ride from the pressure wave pushing back onto the cone as its trying to push out.. you’ll lose output tremendously like this however you’ll not hear any difference to your ear.. This is why most super high end super expensive towers are elevated and the sub fires down..
I am not an expert at all. That is my disclaimer. This is based on my experience. I ask 2 questions. Where will the subwoofer be placed. (Ideal and significant other decor approval) If it is front stage. I find it more accurate to have front firing. The second question is, does the room have carpet? (Whole room carpet) Then use front firing. It has been my experience that whole room carpets ruin base performance while using down firing. My personal setup is 2 front firing in front of seats and 2 down firing behind seating. Why? it is not overwhelming the low frequency. The accuracy is great. The front forward firing gives me the sound. The rear down firing gives me the feel. Yes, my movie room is full carpet. I experienced the feel when starting out using down firing subs. I never could get the sound perfect. Switched to only forward firing, and I got the sound perfect, yet I could never achieve the feel. Put it all together, and I got the best of both worlds, and I didn't break the bank to do it. As I slowly built the system over the years. I have been buying one item at a time doing my research to not buy anything at the end of its retail cycle so I can keep everything matching. If I had to start again and I could afford it. Start with 2 forward firing subwoofers. Set up on the front sound stage. Don't forget the most important rule. The rule above all. Your system sound is only as good as your hearing!
Thank you for the video. A quick question, for the receivers supporting two subs, can we connect one front and one down firing subwoofers? Is yes, will it create any contractions?
I'm not a sound engineer but I own some decent audiophile grade equipment including a PrimLuna 300 Hybrid Amp a pair of Klipsch Speakers and a Rega P8 Turntable. I have two subwoofers. Both Martin's but one is down firing and one is outfiring that I used on two different systems. On this new configuration I put them together Left and Right with the Down Firing Sub Left and the Out firing right. From my ears the bass and drums sound amazing compared to just one or two out firing subs. Is this a known configuration or do you have any experience mixing the two? Why wouldn't mixing the two be good or bad?
Andrew, you mentioned a well designed down firing sub woofer can be beneficial in some rooms. So are they designed differently for down firing other than placement on the cab? In other words could you "just for curiosity " take a front firing sub and lay it horizontally, raised of course and get an idea of how it would perform? Or is that not comparing apples to apples?
You can certainly try it, and it’s unlikely to cause any issues, unless there is exposed heatsinking on the amplifier plate. In that case it would be best to check with the manufacturer before leaving it down-firing for a long period of time. I’m not sure what other designers do, but I certainly approach the design of a down-firing subwoofer differently as I know the floor loading needs to be compensated for with tuning, etc.
Great video, thanks Andrew! I actually have an older Axiom sub that is rear firing which uses the wall as the reflector. I use it in my home theatre with smaller wall mount speakers. So does your advice about losing some of the mid range frequencies that would be coming out of the sub apply in this case too or do they get reflected well by the wall.
You’re welcome! Some of those frequencies will certainly reflect off the wall, but you might want to try turning the sub around to see what impact that has on the mid range balance.
I've tried put it in a corner in the back and at front next to the centre and left speaker. Also tried 180 phase and 0 phase. Played with the crossover frequencies. And still indont get the sound I want. It's no defined. It gets boomie and drownie sometimes. And also I can't quite tell is has a delay. It's a Dali 12ef.
Have used both constructions and always picked the front-firing SUB. Crossed @ 80Hz in my setup, I can definitely tell that front-firing sub has more clarity in the bass notes then the down-firing one which sounds boomy & hoarse...
I've both in my current home theater setup & I'm able to get away with the down firing sub because of the marble floors, with a down firing sub it's all about the flooring, solid wood, concrete or marble floors are perfect for down firing subs. Carpet floors is the worst
@@franklynlindsay2728 The floor surface will certainly make a difference, but if you read through the other comments some have found work-arounds for carpeted floors
I've always had down fire and subs and I've wondered what a front firing would sound like in my room. Could I just to test it out could I put my down firing subwoofer on its side just for a quick test❤️
Yes, it would be fine for a quick test, but keep in mind that some manufacturers will EQ a down firing sub differently knowing that the floor loading will contribute to the output.
Hi , front firing subwoofer is best for sharp listeners to hear music and down firing subwoofer is best for movies and web series like Netflix. Am I correct? Soundbar 2.1 vs home theatre 2.1 for pc desktop? Which one is best for movies n gaming! Please let me know! Thanks.
If the sub is paired with a small pair of speakers of a soundbar with small drivers, I would look for a front-firing subwoofer as it will likely give you better integration.
@@AxiomHomeTheaters something like swan or edifier both front firing with great sound quality and performance as well for audiophile. I think I will take swan m10 which is fit enough for filling room in 15x15 and i heard someone told me if i add bluetooth adapter ( audio ) on speaker to play it via bluetooth. It would be mono but not stereo. Is this true ? So should I get speaker with in built Bluetooth?
A rear-firing sub is going to get loading from a corner boundary between the floor and the back wall. As far as can it be good, I would not use it crossed over the pair of small main speakers.
I have both, and you're correct about frontfiring being easier to blend with small speakers but a downfiring sub packs a bit more spectacle with real low frequency by actually making the floor move under you.
Is it compulsory to put subwoofer (downfiring) above a wooden for better bass??
Or is it ok on just marble floor?
@@Bharatverse308 depends what's under the wood.
If it's only wood between you and the room below you then downfiring is not optimal.
If there's concrete under the wood then downfiring is no problem.
@@73Xtian I don't get it.
What if I Directly put on marble floor ?
(I am living on 1st floor)
@@Bharatverse308 No problem, that will work fine.
Making the floor move is more bass but muddy bass (better for movies) versus clean bass (better for music).
I have a Klipsch Synergy 7.1 Surround Sound speaker system. My sub is the Klipsch SW-450, which is downfiring. My flooring is a real hardwood floor. So for my sub I placed a towel under it and raised it off the floor with bricks under each leg of the sub. I also covered the bricks with cloth and hard foam. I also performed the subwoofer crawl. I consider my room size sort of small to medium (15 ft. wide by 21 feet length, ceiling height 7.5 ft.)
Interesting ideas, thank you for sharing them!
I use dual bottom firing subs. One in the front left of my living room and one in the right rear. I set my 5 bookself size speakers to large in the settings. I love the crispness of the sound I get.
What difference do you hear when using the typical "small" setting in the AVR?
@@chrisj3379 Never tried.
I have both and love both types.
First vote for both, thanks for sharing that you enjoy both styles.
Great Video, yes that's a very tricky question & you're right there's no one answer & sometimes it just comes down to personal preference. I've a combination of both downfiring & forward firing subs in the main living area. I've a 7.2.4 home theater setup, I'm currently running the Denon 3800H Receiver with the Emotiva BasX A5 power amplifier & all Klipsch Speakers (4) rp-280f
(1) rp-404c (4) rp-500sa (2) rp250s (1) spl-120 (1) r-8sw, But in my bedroom I've a 5.1 set up with a down firing sub. I've always loved down firing subwoofers they just hit differently if you know what I mean
Thank you! A combination of both types will likely give you the best of both worlds.
hit diferently means
@@coolmonkey5269 I’ve oak wood floors, hits differently means with the down firing subwoofer you can feel the bass vibrating through the entire flooring in that space not to mention the tremors I feel whenever I’m in the basement
Thanks, Andrew for answering this question. I would add that some people consider "Bookshelf" speakers distinct from "stand-mounted," and sometimes (as an exception to the general rule) the latter might extend a fair bit lower than true bookshelf-sized speakers. For example, my stand-mounted speakers claim to reach down to 42Hz prior to any low freq. rolloff, placing them more into the category of floor standers (i.e., full range speakers). In this case I would be ore comfortable with a down-firing sub.
This is absolutely correct. Some stand mount speakers can comfortably reach well into the bass range where directionality of the subwoofer output is not an issue.
I actually had a infinity 12'' down firing sub woofer that worked great with two Yamaha concert series book shelf speakers. I didn't have the center channel speaker connected. I used the Auvio wireless system to send the signal from my TV to the sub woofer, than hard wired the two book shelf speakers from the sub woofers output jacks.
Down firing subs are a must when the neighbors below your apartment are noisy jerks
Down firing for noise escalating? Neighbors don't stand a chance.
@@AxiomHomeTheaters would a downfiring subwoofer blend good with a speaker that's crossed over at 80hz 24db octave?
Absolutely brilliant, comprehensive and detailed overview of this very tricky topic/decision process. You've possibly addressed this in the most digestible way, even for a newcomer.
Tie this video to a crossover educational video and you'll have the makings of a very seriously lacking, educational aspect of these seemingly simple and nuanced topics. Great job as always and thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences with us.
Thank you kindly for such a wonderful comment!
Thanks for the very clear explanation.
Couldn't agree more! For us high rise dwellers, downward firing subs are an anathema to our downstairs neighbors. :( On a different note, I wonder if over the years, the suspension of down firing drivers might cause sag compared to forward firing drivers.
Good point…noise transmission will be more of an issue with a down-firing subwoofer in most setups. Suspension sag will be an issue in either case after many years of use, but down-firing would likely suffer more.
I just built a Down-firing subwoofer kit and I am going to hook them up with Bookshelf speakers that I also made, am hoping it will sound good
I found this video, researching a DIY home theatre subwoofer build project, to supplement my Klipsch R-8SW sub.
I have seen a few of your videos, previously. I have to say, I really like your presentation style: you are to the point, on topic, & with clear explanations. Thanks.
You deserve way more subs (excuse the pun), than you have.
Great video as always. I've had this same question for a long time. It seems that years ago when home theater was pretty new, down firing was the majority, now that seems to have flipped. I have a Hsu Research sub that I bought years ago. I absolutely love the thing. My theater/stereo system is in what I would call a "small, medium sized room" with a suspended wood frame floor with carpeting (over a basement), and wood framed walls with drywall. It pairs very well with my M80s. What you say about "bookshelf" speakers makes perfect sense. If you are depending on the subwoofer to deliver a portion of the total frequency range above the normal subwoofer level, I can totally see where you would want a front firing sub for that. If I was in the market for a sub, I would try to audition both styles, but I have no complaints with the Hsu.
I will also add that I have a home theater/stereo setup in the basement as well and it has a front firing JBL sub, with my Mirage FRX-7s. Nothing fancy about the sub, but I do notice clear well defined bass in the room and I always wondered if it was because the floor was carpeted over concrete, if the firing direction was responsible for that amount of bass in the room. No floor loading down there I'm sure.
Even carpeted there's going to be some floor loading over concrete. The carpet will damp that loading somewhat. Glad you enjoyed the video, and thanks for sharing your systems.
Hi Andrew I'm really grateful at the time you made this video.
This video showed up in my homepage after watching the DTS disappearing video after 10:20 on 11/3.
I have 2 Vizio 6" down firing subwoofers that put out amazing bass sound on my carpeted 2nd floor wooden flooring. You want to know what is super cool ? When I'm watching movies with high volume when my subs go full active that sound doesn't resonate so low to bother my neighbors from across the hall or down stair neighbors with bass overload. Most of it stays in my room. I can hear it in the hallway but I don't keep the setting at high volume that in the hallway it isn't so loud that it is bothering anybody else. I never got a complaint with any low bass or vibrations.
I disagree on the issue with one versus other when it comes to subwoofers and bookshelf speakers.
Down firing subwoofers come with some Soundbars and some also have basic satellite speakers too.
On Soundbars you can adjust adjust bass and treble and you can adjust levels to the speakers.
I have 2 Insignia 2 way bookshelf speakers that are connected to sub. All of my speakers are in balance on every setting except for my height channels that I set to a higher level. My 2 small size bookshelf speakers connected to my Vizio 5.1 ( via the sub )sound bar connected by a fiber optical cable to the TV they are very compatible. My subs do the primary bass along with the subs on the 9 speaker sound bar and the bookshelf speakers only puts out other bass when it's being told to do it. Dolby True HD and DTS X works. If I don't hear bass from the loudspeakers then I know it's not the speakers fault. I believe my Vizio TV is only telling the subs what sounds to produce to the satellite speakers.
It's up to the user to make the subwoofer and bookshelf speakers work together and down firing can be adjusted for an excellent Dolby Atmos experience.
My next speaker purchase is 3 way bookshelf speakers that I want to upgrade to from my Aiwa 1 way speakers.
Listen, you're not wrong at all you're coming from a point of view from the amplifier hook up from a receiver and a calibrated front firing in phase subwoofer.
My point is the subwoofer to a sound bar, to a TV that is so easily gets all speakers to be in phase throughout the 5.1 system is testament to how well Vizio engineers designed the system to be compatible to work together.
I think what you're referring to is front firing subs need to be calibrated and sound bar sets with a 5.1 set up just need to be only adjusted to the listening pleasure of the owner that is best for them.
For people that buy a Complete sound bar set up with down firing sub this video doesn't help for the skimpy one way satellite speaker upgrade to a 2 way or 3 way bookshelf speaker set up with down firing sub included.
Maybe you were also on to something at the time. As great as my Insignia 2 way speakers are at unlocking more sound that I don't hear from my other satellites maybe from that myth down firing subwoofers and loudspeaker bass don't go together maybe that is why the soundbar manufactures cheap out by including 1 way speaker satellites because they want to speakers never to have much bass so beginner never has a clue that what they truely missing from loud speakers.
This is part 2 on my comment. I meant to seperate it.
I plan on buying 2 Isolated Subwoofer platforms to make my down firing 6" Subwoofers to be better in my room with better acoustic bass than standing on a thin piece of cardboard on carpet flooring. I want as much sound to travel out than being absorbed by carpet fibers and be higher off the floor.
People can also buy Subwoofer isolation feet. So in 2024 with subwoofer accessories. I'm still not sure if this video is relevant for making front firing subs to be a better choice and are better compadible with bookshelf speakers than down firing subs or not? You did mention the variables on flooring but with new isolation pads & feet I still can't picture how front firing speakers are better for matching subs to bookshelf speakers when it comes to being front subs are in phase and down firing subs can be out of phase even when using sub isolation accessories are being used?
My previous comment goes further in detail how my system set up works great with 2 down firing subs and satellite speakers with 2 bookshelf speakers.
I wonder, even though I have a perfect set up if a case is going to be made in defense of front firing subwoofers that if I add 2 isolation platforms that my Vizio subs will still not sound compatible with my 2 way Bookshelf speakers that still puts out good bass when it's needed.
Thank you sir for the tips, they are very helpful.
Glad you're enjoying the tips and taking the time to say so, thank you!
Totally Agree
Insightful. Informative. I liked this.
Interesting you say forward firing for smaller speakers. I have an ambeo plus with a pc4000 connected to it.
Sounds pretty damn good with my movies.
HSU Research's brand new TN1 subwoofer takes the best of both worlds - front facing subwoofer, but the ports are now down firing to get floor coupling
Like always Andrew, fantastic presentation. You sure remember the OM 6 subwoofer was side-firing, and sometime after the Speakers replacement of the OM 6 was the OM 5 with a front-firing subwoofer, so my question is what is the main difference or advantage of designing a side-firing subwoofer compared to side-firing
Thank you! The side-firing woofers were great for cancelling cabinet vibrations but did not work too well if the speakers needed to sit close to a wall or cabinet. The advantage of the front woofers in the OM-5 was more placement flexibility and better integration with the midranges.
So which will produce true, deep, heart hitting bass ?
Focusing exclusively on extreme low frequency like 25hz which is better? Down firing or front firing?
With forward firing have them present also…allow the downfiring sub fill the room similar to firing subwoofer into corner of room ..reflections will fill room and blend with forward firing speakers and surrounds. 6th order series vented certainly a option down fire both ports ch 1 upper and low chamber 2 port chamber 2 into chamber 1 and then port chamber 1 to floor …get both back and front of subs output out of down fire port to fill the room with low frequencies and not sounding one directional counterplots output to blend with floor or bookshelf speakers. Low frequencies are present and location of source is not coming from one particular location in the room. Clearesnce from floor…rule of thumb use half the diameter of subs cone clearance
Base is non directional.. the only thing that matters is time alignment.. so that has more to do with port direction then sub direction.
Then you have to account for the fact you don’t hear the sound till it reverbs or bounces off a hard surface.. in a general home theater situation down fire with a rear port would technically be the best overall for all situations cause of time alignment assuming the sub is back against a wall so the port can load properly.
My personal fav for both home and car audio is front facing and rear port.. if the distance of your couch is the approximate same as the distance of your sub port from the wall.. when the wave off the cone hits the wall behind you and come back it will mostly correctly align with the port wave bouncing off the wall behind the sub and coming to you..
Keep in mind people that you do not physically hear or perceive sound till that pressure wave hits a hard surface and then returns back to your ear..
so if you have a front facing sealed box sub with a sectional that is in an open floor plan setup so you’re in the middle of the room.. you’re going to be way behind in the sound cause that wave has to hit the first hard surface behind you and come back before you can hear it.. in this there is no way around it unless you have high end processor and mics to tune the time alignment properly..
In general.. if you have open floor plan room you’ll get the best experience most times down firing.. if you have a typical tv in wall sub against wall under or next to it.. and couch directly across the room against another wall.. you kinda can’t mess that up unless you have forward cone and forward port in which case you’ll have a slight time alignment mismatch between cone wave and port wave but will only be noticeable near the port tuning.
Second thing.. if you’re still going sealed then stop it lol.. you’re losing soo much performance doing that and you have less ways to properly tune it.
If you have a sealed sub in open floor plan.. you’ll actually be best served turning the box around and facing it to the wall behind it.. the issue there is you’ll need radiois kf the sub away from the wall to load properly.. so a 10” needs 5” from the wall.. 12” 6” etc..
For this into car audio this also applies..
Any down fire sub you need small feet.. the sound needs to travel 360* or you’ll not get proper timing or even extension honestly. If even one side of the box contacts the floor you’ll need radius distance off the floor to load it properly.. id still argue and the data will suggest.. you still want this for proper loading otherwise you’ll get impedance ride from the pressure wave pushing back onto the cone as its trying to push out.. you’ll lose output tremendously like this however you’ll not hear any difference to your ear..
This is why most super high end super expensive towers are elevated and the sub fires down..
Very interesting, thanks
Which firing should I use for portable boombox..!?
Parallel tuned 6th order both ports exit bandpass and a bandwidth is tuned low and high bass tuned ports.
Thanks for the information. What about the phase switch setting. What are your thoughts? I have a 2 channel stereo system with a sub.
I am not an expert at all. That is my disclaimer. This is based on my experience. I ask 2 questions. Where will the subwoofer be placed. (Ideal and significant other decor approval) If it is front stage. I find it more accurate to have front firing.
The second question is, does the room have carpet? (Whole room carpet) Then use front firing. It has been my experience that whole room carpets ruin base performance while using down firing.
My personal setup is 2 front firing in front of seats and 2 down firing behind seating. Why? it is not overwhelming the low frequency. The accuracy is great. The front forward firing gives me the sound. The rear down firing gives me the feel. Yes, my movie room is full carpet. I experienced the feel when starting out using down firing subs. I never could get the sound perfect. Switched to only forward firing, and I got the sound perfect, yet I could never achieve the feel. Put it all together, and I got the best of both worlds, and I didn't break the bank to do it. As I slowly built the system over the years. I have been buying one item at a time doing my research to not buy anything at the end of its retail cycle so I can keep everything matching.
If I had to start again and I could afford it. Start with 2 forward firing subwoofers. Set up on the front sound stage.
Don't forget the most important rule. The rule above all. Your system sound is only as good as your hearing!
Down firing for lower bass for movies and front firing for louder. Room gain does a lot
Thank you for the video. A quick question, for the receivers supporting two subs, can we connect one front and one down firing subwoofers? Is yes, will it create any contractions?
Down firing is excellent
Sir plz make video on Yamaha RX-N AVR series crossover setting
I'm not a sound engineer but I own some decent audiophile grade equipment including a PrimLuna 300 Hybrid Amp a pair of Klipsch Speakers and a Rega P8 Turntable. I have two subwoofers. Both Martin's but one is down firing and one is outfiring that I used on two different systems. On this new configuration I put them together Left and Right with the Down Firing Sub Left and the Out firing right. From my ears the bass and drums sound amazing compared to just one or two out firing subs. Is this a known configuration or do you have any experience mixing the two? Why wouldn't mixing the two be good or bad?
Andrew, you mentioned a well designed down firing sub woofer can be beneficial in some rooms. So are they designed differently for down firing other than placement on the cab? In other words could you "just for curiosity " take a front firing sub and lay it horizontally, raised of course and get an idea of how it would perform? Or is that not comparing apples to apples?
You can certainly try it, and it’s unlikely to cause any issues, unless there is exposed heatsinking on the amplifier plate. In that case it would be best to check with the manufacturer before leaving it down-firing for a long period of time. I’m not sure what other designers do, but I certainly approach the design of a down-firing subwoofer differently as I know the floor loading needs to be compensated for with tuning, etc.
Great video, thanks Andrew! I actually have an older Axiom sub that is rear firing which uses the wall as the reflector. I use it in my home theatre with smaller wall mount speakers. So does your advice about losing some of the mid range frequencies that would be coming out of the sub apply in this case too or do they get reflected well by the wall.
You’re welcome! Some of those frequencies will certainly reflect off the wall, but you might want to try turning the sub around to see what impact that has on the mid range balance.
I've tried put it in a corner in the back and at front next to the centre and left speaker. Also tried 180 phase and 0 phase. Played with the crossover frequencies. And still indont get the sound I want. It's no defined. It gets boomie and drownie sometimes. And also I can't quite tell is has a delay.
It's a Dali 12ef.
Hey sir have a down firing woofer but it's not outputting enough bass I don't know y
Have used both constructions and always picked the front-firing SUB.
Crossed @ 80Hz in my setup, I can definitely tell that front-firing sub has more clarity in the bass notes then the down-firing one which sounds boomy & hoarse...
Thanks for sharing your experiences with both, the comments can be as helpful to people as the video.
I've both in my current home theater setup & I'm able to get away with the down firing sub because of the marble floors, with a down firing sub it's all about the flooring, solid wood, concrete or marble floors are perfect for down firing subs. Carpet floors is the worst
@@franklynlindsay2728 The floor surface will certainly make a difference, but if you read through the other comments some have found work-arounds for carpeted floors
What about "round is right" SVS up firing Subs? Is it similar to your comments regarding front firing and blending?
Somewhat, yes, but an up-firing woofer will not likely have any boundary reinforcement.
I've always had down fire and subs and I've wondered what a front firing would sound like in my room. Could I just to test it out could I put my down firing subwoofer on its side just for a quick test❤️
Yes, it would be fine for a quick test, but keep in mind that some manufacturers will EQ a down firing sub differently knowing that the floor loading will contribute to the output.
My aDs 910s are full-range, so my front firing 12" subs are not in use right now.
A 2 channel system can sound full without subs, enjoy!
Down fire subs use half the diameter of sub off floor 10” sub 5” off floor…12” 6” etc…
What if we keep up firing woofers in corner of room ? Any one done this before please share me ur experience in up firing subwoofer
I have a backfiring sub.
👍🏻🔊👍🏻
Hi , front firing subwoofer is best for sharp listeners to hear music and down firing subwoofer is best for movies and web series like Netflix. Am I correct?
Soundbar 2.1 vs home theatre 2.1 for pc desktop? Which one is best for movies n gaming! Please let me know! Thanks.
If the sub is paired with a small pair of speakers of a soundbar with small drivers, I would look for a front-firing subwoofer as it will likely give you better integration.
@@AxiomHomeTheaters u think front firing is good option for desktop movies and web series?
@@bhaskarbhattacharyya9357 yes, front-firing is the best option if you are getting a small pair of speakers.
@@AxiomHomeTheaters something like swan or edifier both front firing with great sound quality and performance as well for audiophile. I think I will take swan m10 which is fit enough for filling room in 15x15 and i heard someone told me if i add bluetooth adapter ( audio ) on speaker to play it via bluetooth. It would be mono but not stereo. Is this true ? So should I get speaker with in built Bluetooth?
@@bhaskarbhattacharyya9357 if you're planning to use Bluetooth it's far better to buy a speaker with it embedded.
i got another question how about a bandpass sub woofer? I would very much love to hear your thoughts about this topic.
Bandpass subs can create good output over a small-ish range, but they tend to be fairly non-linear. I have found most of them to sound “boomy”.
if i cant see the driver i dont want it, and besides the look, i like to keep an eye out for damage control.
Sound reasoning to pick front-firing subs.
and i got a question how about rear firing sub woofer? how good they can possibly be??
A rear-firing sub is going to get loading from a corner boundary between the floor and the back wall. As far as can it be good, I would not use it crossed over the pair of small main speakers.
Jjjk
Bro does not have a good sub amp , its all distortion, he thinks that is good LMAAO