I can absolutely attest to this. I couldn't afford machine shop stuff when I was younger. Had to build and learn and integrate from others. That led me to working at a machine shop and expanding. I'm now a custom engine builder, self employed, and have more work than I want. You younger people have now idea how easy you have to people like UT a keyboard away.
He has been more than helpful that is for sure. UT has amazing content. Its sad to know that in just a few decades nobody will even know how to build a Chrysler 383. Just like we dont know how to build the rockets that sent us to the moon. It is technology lost to time.
I did this at home on my first 440 engine build back in the 90’s & man, I can’t tell you how grateful I am that Firepower Hemi has FLOATING wrist pins.
Hey Uncle Tony .. great video man ! . My Father was a mechanic his entire life ,. and worked on everything in his mechanic shops , including doing his own machining with his own equipment . when he would assemble pistons and rods he would basically do what you just did in your video . except he would usually use his oxygen and acetylene torch , with a small rosebud tip on it . because like you said , most piston pins have an offset to one side , he had spacer tools that he made from copper for the spacing . they were U shaped tool with about a four inch handle on them . he four of them in different sizes , but the one most often used was the .060" thick one . and he would also use 30 weight motor oil on the piston and pin during assembly . but you are absolutely right , it is all the same concept . thank you for the videos Tony Tim from Wisconsin .
Brilliant, you have cleared a niggling worry I had after I received my pistons and rods back from the machine shop. I noticed the wrist pins were not all precisely central when the connecting rod wrre. I enquired with them about this and they said it’s fine. Being my first warm V8 rebuild, I was skeptic all but you have cleared the worry. Good job, thanks.
when I got mine back (f302), the pin ends of the rod were all discolored dark purple. it's been nagging me ever since that they might have killed the forge strength by overheating.
@ SometimesLeela Actually, so did I. But I figured with heat there was always going to be discolouration but to what extent. Mine too had dull purple shade but our man Tony has lifted our concerns.
that would piss me off especially with how much some of us are paying for the simplest of stuff done app machine shops! in this situation I would expect that pins to be centered within .020" at the most and if they weren't then I would have them do it again which would cause me even more concern because of how many times the rod had to be heated! parts are not cheap and I have a lot of bad experiences at machine shops and their prices are definitely not cheap!
the prices I'm paying at my machine shops I demand perfection especially for the price of quality parts, so those pins better be pretty damn close to dead center on all eight!
My Dad has done this stuff since the 60's and said, "Everything you are Saying Word for Word", on a Friday Night as he showed me how to do this very same thing. I learned 2 things, the right way to do it, and how to do it when you can't do it the right way, but it has to be done anyway. Great Video UTG! and an even better message.
Man, I just pulled and pressed a carrier bearing on my 86 Volvo driveshaft. The manager at the part store was impressed, said he bought a new shaft because of the way his was pressed together. Not sure his vehicle, but I was like "really? I'm not even that much of a gearhead and I'm doing it!" No fire needed, just cut a 1-3/4" notch in a block of wood and gently hammered it on. Pain in the ass is it's special order shit, and I got the wrong rubber donut it goes in so I'm waiting a week for the fucker I need. Glad it's a project car and not my daily (it will be again sometime). Not but a few months ago I was watching Tony talk about people that are doers. I was not in that category then, but I'm working on being more of a doer! My primary truck had a few problems I needed to fix. (Body control module had a burnt circuit- started the adventure). When I was satisfied (and bored), I dragged the old Volvo up out of the dirt. Thanks for the inspiration, Tony! Edit: anyone wondering, parts have been pretty cheap so far, but nobody has them in stock for same day pickup. O'Reilly has become the standout in my recent experience, if that helps anyone. Used to go to Napa a lot but they close earlier/less convenient for a non-pro like me.
Wow thanks you're doing gods work! The machinist I use is in his 70s and does awesome work but he's in demand and works limited hours so I hate to bother him with stuff like that. I have always done the cam bearings and core plugs myself to save time. Over the years he's told me I can hang the pistons myself but he's always done for me as a favor. After watching your how to, I tried it and had him double check my work. He said perfect. So thanks
Of course a machine shop is easiest but I have done it at home without much trouble. Its all about setup. I used a block of wood with a section cut out with the same radius as the piston. I used a cheap tabletop hydraulic press from harbor freight. Heating the rod in the oven and cooling the pin in the freezer reduces the amount of force the press has to apply.
Using a factory installed piston as a guide, make a simple fixture to help you get that pin centered. It really helps when you have that hot connecting rod and you are trying to move fast before it cools.
I've used the same method installing bearings. Put the bearings in the freezer, then heat up the pocket the bearing sits in. When it's warm, pull bearing out of the freezer and should slide right in. Can also use an oven for heating parts too, if their small enough. Great video! This is the garage mechanics way taught to me by my grandfather.
Have put new bearing races in many truck hubs this way, also ring gears on flywheels. Last shop i worked in had a huge commercial oven we could put a whole 4 cyl diesel block in we could freeze the new cylinder liners over night and they just dropped in by hand after you set the block in the oven for about 2hrs.
Never put parts in wifes oven. Oil always smells up the kitchen, even if you clean parts. Ask me how I know. Now just have dedicated toaster oven in garage. Haha
When you see it done at the machine shop the heater looks like a toaster. My local shop machined and balanced my lower end and pressed the pins while I waited, did all 8 in about 10 minutes for $8 a piece. Seemed like a fair price so I let him take care of it for $64 .
If the rod is heated to hot it distorts the small end therefore it loses it quench .ie press fit ,. Seen this way to many times. Pin moving in against the cyl wall when it gets hot . Owned a machine shop for 30+ years .Let a shop do it
@@eugeneyelton3829 I get what you're saying but machine shops hire idiots too. It's not their motor it's not their money spent. Ive had them F up my stuff before.
I have taken it up on myself to do my 86 4 runner's 22RE. This channel has made me feel so much more comfortable about the project. Watching you has helped me grasp and understand so much more. Thank you!
This channel is a public service for the nex generation of hot rodders Watching power nation and motor trend in the past few years turned me away from cars for lack of budget . Even though ive always been a die hard car fanatic . Thank you Tony , youve inspierd me and gave me confidence to start tinkering with engines again
I was half expecting the party trick with this one... in my automotive class, our teacher did this exact thing (with an oxy torch instead, though) but when he let it cool down, he showed the transfer of heat from the conrod to the pin, and from the pin to the piston. My teacher did this by holding the connecting rod up off the piston by a bit (about a 45 degree angle) and when the con rod cooled down and the pin heated up, the pin locked up inside the conrod and the piston, making the conrod stay on the 45ish angle... until it dropped when the piston soaked up some of the heat from the pin, expanding the hole to be bigger. Great content nonetheless, and was everything I remember being taught about this! I even distinctly remember the feeling of the pin slipping into the conrod... good times!
I need to start learning to do that my self. Most of the old timer in my area getting to old and retired or dieing off.. you have the same techniques my pap used. He passed away 7years ago at 84 years old.
Reminds me of heating up a starter ring gear until it falls into a new flywheel, a new M Benz standard shift flywheel doesn't always come with a starter ring gear, so sometimes you have to patiently tap around the old flywheel with a brass drift to remove the ring without breaking it and put it on the new flywheel. If all goes well getting it off, just lay it flat and heat the crap out of it with Acetylene/Ox torch. But never ever tap the ring while it's hot. It will snap like popcorn. Great Video Uncle Tony.
Wow! I've never heated the rod to remove a pressed in pin. I've got a huge vise & pressed the pins out to clean the pistons & rod then pressed the pin back in. I've never damaged a piston or had any issue. I see the benefit of heating the rod it would take the stress off the piston while making in pin go in a lot easier.
Thanks Uncle Tony your the best! I asked this a couple weeks back on a live stream, great to see a follow up video as I know it’s a hot topic with not a lot of info out there. I ended up building an adjustable jig that clamps the piston and sets the wrist pin depth, very similair to what a machine shop has. Ive always been told if the rod gets dull red/red hot the rod is toasted and might aswell throw it out. I did this last week in my SBC I only heated the rods until they were blue and the wrist pin slid right in no problem, Great work by the way appreciate the video!
MAPP burns hotter, not just a bigger flame. Great video Tony! Also, the point where the primary cone and secondary cone meet is the hottest part. If the primary bright blue cone is wrapping around the piece, you're holding it too close. Sorry, I'm a firebug.
@@jimc3688 Not very experienced with Acetylene, but I wanna study up and get a rig. I wonder if I put a rod end in my propane forge, would it be good or heat up to large of an area? Looks like a handheld torch and patience are where my experience level would lead me.
There has not been any mapp gas produced after 2008. If you read the label on that familiar yellow bottle it says map pro. It's what replaced mapp gas. It does burn hotter than propane but not as hot as mapp gas.
Expertly presented & Explained !! .....It's Important to measure the Actual desired pin offset Direction as some Aftermarket pistons Arrow stamp is oriented Reversed from Oem & you can end up Reversed from Intended !!
Nice tutorial! I had forgotten that I did this back in the 70's putting 12.5/1 pistons in my uncles 62 Impala! I actually need to put a set of 5.7" rods on 400 pistons, so this is cool!!
Back when I was a pup 78 I worked for chevrolet I was doing an engine that needed a rod so I bought it to a machine shop down the street and he used a torch to do it made it look so simple no questions about how you are doing this
A stick welder can also be used to heat the rod, not to weld on it but arc the welder out on the rod end and let it hum until it gets warmer enough positive and negative on each side of the rod end to only heat the end
It's amazing what heat and cold will do for press fits. I had an interference fit bearing in a tractor axle where the old one slipped out and I couldn't get the new one in and due to it being inside the housing I couldn't tap it really with anything. Bearing sat in the freezer overnight and I heated the housing just a bit with a propane torch and when I got the bearing out it just pushed right in with ease.
Great "how to" video Tony thanks. There is a British motorcycle engine builder that we all know and love that uses his gas grill to do this. Either method looks very easy if you take your time. Thanks again.
Looks good Tony. I have a little jig i made out of scrap that I set the piston in, and it has a bolt on one side to set the pin depth. Ive always done this job with a propane torch.
It looks like he's using a Bernzomatic TS4000 torch and so called 'map gas'. This setup will cost a sizable sum of money. I used a regular brass style torch from the hardware store and propane gas. I put the pin in a bowl of ice for 15 minutes before installing and it worked just fine.
I grab the rod through the big end and hold it in such a way that when I extend my hand the tang will be in the direction I need it in and keep it like that. That way once the heat is off I can quickly assemble
Definitely works. They sell great crayons that melt at predictable Temps which helps those nervous about overheating. Freezing the pin also is a good idea. Heading the rod is heating the rod. I love full floaters and haven't used anything else since early 90's. But those are high dollar engines and another topic altogether.
I "press fitted" my whole Speed Pro hypereutectic set with nothing but that exact bernzomatic propane torch. I had to, because everywhere I tried to take em literally told me "I can't guarantee that I won't crush these pistons with the press". Freezing the wrist pins made it sooo much worse. It cooled the rod too fast and then you don't have the same window of opportunity to get it centered. I just heated the rod and pushed the pin through exactly the same way you demonstrated, to where my fingers stopped it.
Pressing he piston out with a press ruins the piston as the shop told you. You need specialty jig. The shop was explaining that to you but you did not listen.
Great video, however, I see one small issue, which on factory engines, may but be an issue. This method heats the rod to beyond its "critical point" or the area in which steel loses any temper it has, which is at about a dull red. Another way to check this is if it loses its magnetism. Steel, heated to that point, quits being magnetic. So if the temp gets above that, any temper is lost. If this affects stock rods, or if temper matters in this context I don't know, but it's something to take into account.
I did a dirt bike piston by putting the piston pin in the freezer and the rod in the oven at about 210 degrees, a little oil and it slipped right into place then let it cool
Cool! I’ve always been worried about setting pins in rods. I’ve always had the machine shop do them. I’ve been curious about replacing pistons of different metals, and domes. This was definitely an eye opener! Thanks again!
I have a Samurai I'm working on that has rods like this, although they're a lot smaller than that old Mopar! I think I'm going to try a machine shop for this one though, I feel like the tiny little pistons and wrist pins won't take my ham-fisted attempts well. It really looks easy in your video, and if I didn't have a machine shop ready to do it for me, I'd be out there in the shop with a torch myself.
VGG got a tour of the Blue Print engines factory. They do so many if these that they have a special fixture. Machine presents piston appropriate side up with wrist pin inserted to proper depth. The operator has a rod presented also in the correct orientation. He places the piston end in a heating slot and presses a button. When the rod is ready a light goes green. The operator moves the rod over to the piston and pushes a button which properly inserts the pin.
Thank Tony for another awesome video! I remember the 1st time I seen this done..i was like oh my God my RODS!! The machinist was an old guy that was known for building race engines so i didnt dare question him. That engine saw some high revs and never had an issue with it! I still have machinist do certain things for me just cause their way better at it
The new Mapp gas is nothing like the OG stuff from the 2000’s that got discontinued. In fact, it is only marginally hotter than propane. Look it up. Don’t let the sound or looks of the flame fool ya.
It's still hotter. If you try this with propane, you can't heat it enough. MAPP gas just barely does it, but it does it. I use oxyacetylene torch myself. That will get it way too hot, so you have to be very careful with that.
I looked into that too. MAPP gas is new and less hot than MAP gas of old. They snookered us by adding that extra P and it is only a couple hundred degrees hotter than the older stuff.
Good stuff. A simple pin stop can be built on a mill or drill press table (or any flat surface). An infrared thermometer takes away the chance of extracting the temper of the rod. 430-460 degrees F is what I aim for.
@@SOLDOZER It works without damaging anything if you're only moderately careful. The socket is Cr-V, which is far softer than a pin, so it won't be damaged that way. It's done on a block of wood, which is softer than aluminum, no damage there, either. I've been rebuilding engines for almost 40 years and haven't had a problem using this method.
Great job Tony. The only other advantage to having a machine shop doing this that they would check the bore of the large end of the rod and machine it if it is found to be out of round.
There are some propane torch rigs that are capable of high heat operations but you won't find them usually at the local hardware store. I have used some in the plumbing trade in place of acetylene units.
To the best of my knowledge MAP gas is a mix of accetaline and propane it kinda smells like accitaline win it comes out of torch not burning.Done similar things many times.
Great vid but the two torches have different nozzles one is a ts4000 which is a bigger flame that's what u have on the yellow map tank but the blue prop tank has a wk something nozzle which is smaller. Map gas does burn hotter tho so could be a reason to pick it over prop but I'm no expert.
Sure looks easy. I'd like to see how to remove the pin and rod by this method - or any method. Hyd. press without a jig is a rough go. Heating the rod end just seems to heat the pin too and nothing moves. I've tried this many times and the only way I've ever got them apart is with a cold chisel and hammer. Crack the rod and drive the pin out. Save the piston, scrap the rod. Usually needs to be the other way around.
STEVE Dulcitch has a video on how to make a tool that presses the pin in or out without any heat or damage to the pistons with nothing more than an old pin and a threaded rod . IT works like a c press for kingpins and you don't have to heat the rods ,maybe putting the pins in freezer to install to go back easier.I know how UT doesn't care too much for those guys but its a pretty ingenious tool
Gallon can, oil, hot plate, put little end in the oil, I think 450 F. works, the oil is your assembly lube . Push 'em right in . You might wanna use a heat gun to see if 450 F. is enough .
Never tried to use a little torch to change wrist pins before norm just use a big ass press and spacer between the rod and piston and a socket to push the pin out.....id figure id would heat transfer to the pin or piston
If you're swapping a set of pistons I guess you can save torch gas and time by removing then immediately reheating for install before the small end gets cold?
No cherry red, "you're not looking to have the heat come up the shank of the rod" that got a good laugh outta me. I could just about hear the clatter of piston and rod on start up after reassembly and hoping uncle rodney didnt make a quick exit. Lol....
Usually you share great knowledge.. Not this time, the rods are around 55rc harness from the factory, which is a temper of around 500°f for these rods, so anything above that will futher temper them back, and anything above 550°f has effectively nullified the heat treat. So, any glowing... Is too far.. You should be shooting for color change of about "hay", not even into "blue".. But overall, just putting them in a 450°f oven will hit it everytime. ....... I can. Promise you, if you purchase a set a RC hardness test files, you'll see the big end is much harder than the small end of the rods you just destroyed.
As a machinist with a fairly extensive knowledge of metallurgy, I thoroughly agree with every detail of your explanation. I love UT but I gotta back you here.
Great videos Tony. I have a dilemma, had shop press new pistons on stock rods sbc. My problem is after installation into block I don't have rod to rod clearance. Was very careful to install bearings correctly and make sure chamfer on rod faced counter weights fillet. I made sure I did not mix rod caps. I'm at a loss here, sure could use some help. Ps. Not my first rodeo, but first in 35 year. Yikes!
Awesome vid! I appreciate the information here, I should have listened to the very first thing you said and taken mine to a machine shop! Haha, I ruined a 440 6 Pack Rod, and Tweaked a KB 137 Piston Head!!! I mentioned your chanel in the video I'm posting now crediting you with giving me the confidence to try this myself. You make it look very easy. I just found your channel and look forward to watching more of your stuff!
I am a chemist. MAP gas has more cabron atoms, which is not very important because... oxygen is the key. The structure of the torch is what really matters. Higher gas flow and more oxygen will produce the heat required to release the pin using propane only.
I used to have a small plug to use as a stop when pressing the pin. Compensate for the rod side play. I only did it so people wouldn't tell me I was sloppy
That is hot..if it looks different afterwards, it is different. I'm not a metallurgist, but some tempering is done several hundred Fahrenheit degrees cooler than this, meaning this rod is probably different, which is more likely to mean weaker than stronger. I'm sure you've done it many times successfully, but that may just mean the rods are overbuilt at the small end...they do seem more prone to breakage near the big end. I wonder what the wrist pin temp is after the heat transfer? I'd be surprised if even a cheap wrist pin isn't heat treated. I have a rockwell tester..maybe going to do this to some old parts and check before and after hardness. I did purposely bend a stock rod, twisted it about 180 degrees along its length. It was easier than I expected, so maybe it is soft and it doesn't matter, but I'd rather not heat any critical parts to that temperature.
Excellent vid Uncle Tony. I'm assuming this is one way to do the much debated practice of "turning the pistons around backwards" on a 318,to change the offset that you mention in the pistons,to get a bit of added low end torque. I ask because i've always wanted to try it.
Just to remind, the pin should not protrude past the outside edge of the piston on either side, when you push the rod against the inside wall of the piston. If it does, I would then actually take a measurement, and ensure the two sides are equal in the play. Keeps the pin from scrapping the wall of the cylinder bore, if the rod and pin does go that far. I know it shouldn't, but it's better to be on the safe side.
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I can absolutely attest to this. I couldn't afford machine shop stuff when I was younger. Had to build and learn and integrate from others. That led me to working at a machine shop and expanding. I'm now a custom engine builder, self employed, and have more work than I want. You younger people have now idea how easy you have to people like UT a keyboard away.
He has been more than helpful that is for sure. UT has amazing content. Its sad to know that in just a few decades nobody will even know how to build a Chrysler 383. Just like we dont know how to build the rockets that sent us to the moon. It is technology lost to time.
@@alpha13dylan eventuallyknowing how to pour beer will be the same way
Ain't that the truth. My learning was all trial and error ,reading books and asking guys my father's age what to do.
Eat a dick. You had 1$ gas and 5000$ cars.
@@sawyerbarnes7439 and 4.00 an hour minimum wage, and at 18 parents kicked kids out to become adults. Not raise manchilds in the basement
I did this at home on my first 440 engine build back in the 90’s & man, I can’t tell you how grateful I am that Firepower Hemi has FLOATING wrist pins.
Hey Uncle Tony .. great video man ! .
My Father was a mechanic his entire life ,. and worked on everything in his mechanic shops , including doing his own machining with his own equipment .
when he would assemble pistons and rods he would basically do what you just did in your video . except he would usually use his oxygen and acetylene torch , with a small rosebud tip on it .
because like you said , most piston pins have an offset to one side , he had spacer tools that he made from copper for the spacing .
they were U shaped tool with about a four inch handle on them .
he four of them in different sizes , but the one most often used was the .060" thick one .
and he would also use 30 weight motor oil on the piston and pin during assembly .
but you are absolutely right , it is all the same concept .
thank you for the videos Tony
Tim from Wisconsin .
Brilliant, you have cleared a niggling worry I had after I received my pistons and rods back from the machine shop. I noticed the wrist pins were not all precisely central when the connecting rod wrre. I enquired with them about this and they said it’s fine. Being my first warm V8 rebuild, I was skeptic all but you have cleared the worry. Good job, thanks.
when I got mine back (f302), the pin ends of the rod were all discolored dark purple. it's been nagging me ever since that they might have killed the forge strength by overheating.
@ SometimesLeela
Actually, so did I. But I figured with heat there was always going to be discolouration but to what extent. Mine too had dull purple shade but our man Tony has lifted our concerns.
that would piss me off especially with how much some of us are paying for the simplest of stuff done app machine shops! in this situation I would expect that pins to be centered within .020" at the most and if they weren't then I would have them do it again which would cause me even more concern because of how many times the rod had to be heated! parts are not cheap and I have a lot of bad experiences at machine shops and their prices are definitely not cheap!
the prices I'm paying at my machine shops I demand perfection especially for the price of quality parts, so those pins better be pretty damn close to dead center on all eight!
whats a niggling
My Dad has done this stuff since the 60's and said, "Everything you are Saying Word for Word", on a Friday Night as he showed me how to do this very same thing. I learned 2 things, the right way to do it, and how to do it when you can't do it the right way, but it has to be done anyway. Great Video UTG! and an even better message.
DD speed shop gave you a shout out and painted his engine block like you did in your video.
Man, I just pulled and pressed a carrier bearing on my 86 Volvo driveshaft. The manager at the part store was impressed, said he bought a new shaft because of the way his was pressed together. Not sure his vehicle, but I was like "really? I'm not even that much of a gearhead and I'm doing it!" No fire needed, just cut a 1-3/4" notch in a block of wood and gently hammered it on. Pain in the ass is it's special order shit, and I got the wrong rubber donut it goes in so I'm waiting a week for the fucker I need. Glad it's a project car and not my daily (it will be again sometime).
Not but a few months ago I was watching Tony talk about people that are doers. I was not in that category then, but I'm working on being more of a doer! My primary truck had a few problems I needed to fix. (Body control module had a burnt circuit- started the adventure). When I was satisfied (and bored), I dragged the old Volvo up out of the dirt. Thanks for the inspiration, Tony!
Edit: anyone wondering, parts have been pretty cheap so far, but nobody has them in stock for same day pickup. O'Reilly has become the standout in my recent experience, if that helps anyone. Used to go to Napa a lot but they close earlier/less convenient for a non-pro like me.
Wow thanks you're doing gods work! The machinist I use is in his 70s and does awesome work but he's in demand and works limited hours so I hate to bother him with stuff like that. I have always done the cam bearings and core plugs myself to save time. Over the years he's told me I can hang the pistons myself but he's always done for me as a favor. After watching your how to, I tried it and had him double check my work. He said perfect. So thanks
With that said I do love it when the costumer buys floating pins
Of course a machine shop is easiest but I have done it at home without much trouble. Its all about setup. I used a block of wood with a section cut out with the same radius as the piston. I used a cheap tabletop hydraulic press from harbor freight. Heating the rod in the oven and cooling the pin in the freezer reduces the amount of force the press has to apply.
Using a factory installed piston as a guide, make a simple fixture to help you get that pin centered. It really helps when you have that hot connecting rod and you are trying to move fast before it cools.
Man, I’ve been doing it all wrong!
Going through case after case of bic lighters. 😦
Candles don't work very good either 😏
Lol!
I'll let you know how the magnifying glass works but it might be a while...
@@codemang87 Rubbing these 2 sticks together is taking a really long time 😁
@@pauberrymon5892 are least you can find sticks! I've been waiting a week just for the clouds to clear!
I've used the same method installing bearings. Put the bearings in the freezer, then heat up the pocket the bearing sits in. When it's warm, pull bearing out of the freezer and should slide right in. Can also use an oven for heating parts too, if their small enough. Great video! This is the garage mechanics way taught to me by my grandfather.
Have put new bearing races in many truck hubs this way, also ring gears on flywheels.
Last shop i worked in had a huge commercial oven we could put a whole 4 cyl diesel block in we could freeze the new cylinder liners over night and they just dropped in by hand after you set the block in the oven for about 2hrs.
Never put parts in wifes oven. Oil always smells up the kitchen, even if you clean parts. Ask me how I know. Now just have dedicated toaster oven in garage. Haha
Rods will get harder if you put them in a nice warm place.
@@BigBing1987 I usually put the new ring gear in the pizza oven for a bit.
Great how to video.
I've done this numerous times on pistons. And the same process works when inserting bearings and bearing races into axle tubes
Love it Uncle Tony, showing the little guys with little budgets how to do it!!
I stumbled into your content about a year ago....ThankYou, God Bless you and the UTG family and friends!!!
When you see it done at the machine shop the heater looks like a toaster. My local shop machined and balanced my lower end and pressed the pins while I waited, did all 8 in about 10 minutes for $8 a piece. Seemed like a fair price so I let him take care of it for $64 .
When I had a shop I had an old toaster oven used for such things.
If the rod is heated to hot it distorts the small end therefore it loses it quench .ie press fit ,. Seen this way to many times. Pin moving in against the cyl wall when it gets hot . Owned a machine shop for 30+ years .Let a shop do it
@@eugeneyelton3829 And he heated it too hot. If its red its too hot.
@@eugeneyelton3829 I get what you're saying but machine shops hire idiots too. It's not their motor it's not their money spent. Ive had them F up my stuff before.
Thanks for doing these "home engine builder" vids! They're super informative and helpful.
I have taken it up on myself to do my 86 4 runner's 22RE. This channel has made me feel so much more comfortable about the project. Watching you has helped me grasp and understand so much more. Thank you!
Great engine! How did it go?
So glad everything I have uses floating pistons. Sprio locks are SLIGHTLY less annoying than pressed pin.
The learning never stops at UTG. Saw your guest appearance on DD speed shop. Damn nice of you to do way up there to help Dan.
This channel is a public service for the nex generation of hot rodders
Watching power nation and motor trend in the past few years turned me away from cars for lack of budget . Even though ive always been a die hard car fanatic .
Thank you Tony , youve inspierd me and gave me confidence to start tinkering with engines again
Damn Uncle Tony making it look easy! Love this channel.
I was half expecting the party trick with this one... in my automotive class, our teacher did this exact thing (with an oxy torch instead, though) but when he let it cool down, he showed the transfer of heat from the conrod to the pin, and from the pin to the piston. My teacher did this by holding the connecting rod up off the piston by a bit (about a 45 degree angle) and when the con rod cooled down and the pin heated up, the pin locked up inside the conrod and the piston, making the conrod stay on the 45ish angle... until it dropped when the piston soaked up some of the heat from the pin, expanding the hole to be bigger. Great content nonetheless, and was everything I remember being taught about this! I even distinctly remember the feeling of the pin slipping into the conrod... good times!
I need to start learning to do that my self. Most of the old timer in my area getting to old and retired or dieing off.. you have the same techniques my pap used. He passed away 7years ago at 84 years old.
Reminds me of heating up a starter ring gear until it falls into a new flywheel, a new M Benz standard shift flywheel doesn't always come with a starter ring gear, so sometimes you have to patiently tap around the old flywheel with a brass drift to remove the ring without breaking it and put it on the new flywheel. If all goes well getting it off, just lay it flat and heat the crap out of it with Acetylene/Ox torch.
But never ever tap the ring while it's hot. It will snap like popcorn. Great Video Uncle Tony.
Wow! I've never heated the rod to remove a pressed in pin. I've got a huge vise & pressed the pins out to clean the pistons & rod then pressed the pin back in. I've never damaged a piston or had any issue. I see the benefit of heating the rod it would take the stress off the piston while making in pin go in a lot easier.
4:48 “I USE MY FINGERS AS A GAUGE….” best Rock Band name of the ‘60’s.
Used Moms oven to heat my 327 rods back in the day. Worked great until Mom went to use the oven the next day. My ass is still sore from the old man.
Thanks Uncle Tony your the best! I asked this a couple weeks back on a live stream, great to see a follow up video as I know it’s a hot topic with not a lot of info out there. I ended up building an adjustable jig that clamps the piston and sets the wrist pin depth, very similair to what a machine shop has. Ive always been told if the rod gets dull red/red hot the rod is toasted and might aswell throw it out. I did this last week in my SBC I only heated the rods until they were blue and the wrist pin slid right in no problem, Great work by the way appreciate the video!
MAPP burns hotter, not just a bigger flame. Great video Tony!
Also, the point where the primary cone and secondary cone meet is the hottest part. If the primary bright blue cone is wrapping around the piece, you're holding it too close. Sorry, I'm a firebug.
Mapp has more btu's
A little bit of Acetylene does wonders. MAPP gas is not always available these days.
@@jimc3688 Not very experienced with Acetylene, but I wanna study up and get a rig. I wonder if I put a rod end in my propane forge, would it be good or heat up to large of an area? Looks like a handheld torch and patience are where my experience level would lead me.
There has not been any mapp gas produced after 2008. If you read the label on that familiar yellow bottle it says map pro. It's what replaced mapp gas. It does burn hotter than propane but not as hot as mapp gas.
Was gonna say ,I've got a torch head that is used on mapp or propane just screw an adjustment knob.
Expertly presented & Explained !! .....It's Important to measure the Actual desired pin offset Direction as some Aftermarket pistons Arrow stamp is oriented Reversed from Oem & you can end up Reversed from Intended !!
Nice tutorial! I had forgotten that I did this back in the 70's putting 12.5/1 pistons in my uncles 62 Impala! I actually need to put a set of 5.7" rods on 400 pistons, so this is cool!!
Awesome.
Thank you, uncle Tony and uncle Kathy.
Back when I was a pup 78 I worked for chevrolet I was doing an engine that needed a rod so I bought it to a machine shop down the street and he used a torch to do it made it look so simple no questions about how you are doing this
A stick welder can also be used to heat the rod, not to weld on it but arc the welder out on the rod end and let it hum until it gets warmer enough positive and negative on each side of the rod end to only heat the end
Shorting out a 200A welder...you're a special type of stupid.
Good Advice brought to you by the Shut up and listen corner here at UTG Headquarters..
Keep wrenching everyone
It's amazing what heat and cold will do for press fits. I had an interference fit bearing in a tractor axle where the old one slipped out and I couldn't get the new one in and due to it being inside the housing I couldn't tap it really with anything. Bearing sat in the freezer overnight and I heated the housing just a bit with a propane torch and when I got the bearing out it just pushed right in with ease.
Great "how to" video Tony thanks. There is a British motorcycle engine builder that we all know and love that uses his gas grill to do this. Either method looks very easy if you take your time. Thanks again.
Looks good Tony. I have a little jig i made out of scrap that I set the piston in, and it has a bolt on one side to set the pin depth. Ive always done this job with a propane torch.
Thanks Tony , that was the coolest thing I've ever seen .
It looks like he's using a Bernzomatic TS4000 torch and so called 'map gas'. This setup will cost a sizable sum of money. I used a regular brass style torch from the hardware store and propane gas. I put the pin in a bowl of ice for 15 minutes before installing and it worked just fine.
You're a godsend, Uncle Tony! Thank you!
I grab the rod through the big end and hold it in such a way that when I extend my hand the tang will be in the direction I need it in and keep it like that. That way once the heat is off I can quickly assemble
An old friend's dad had a pieces of metal that were bent to a Block C shape for replacing pistons or connecting rods on any of his three engines
Definitely works. They sell great crayons that melt at predictable Temps which helps those nervous about overheating. Freezing the pin also is a good idea. Heading the rod is heating the rod. I love full floaters and haven't used anything else since early 90's. But those are high dollar engines and another topic altogether.
I "press fitted" my whole Speed Pro hypereutectic set with nothing but that exact bernzomatic propane torch. I had to, because everywhere I tried to take em literally told me "I can't guarantee that I won't crush these pistons with the press". Freezing the wrist pins made it sooo much worse. It cooled the rod too fast and then you don't have the same window of opportunity to get it centered. I just heated the rod and pushed the pin through exactly the same way you demonstrated, to where my fingers stopped it.
Pressing he piston out with a press ruins the piston as the shop told you. You need specialty jig. The shop was explaining that to you but you did not listen.
Great video, however, I see one small issue, which on factory engines, may but be an issue. This method heats the rod to beyond its "critical point" or the area in which steel loses any temper it has, which is at about a dull red. Another way to check this is if it loses its magnetism. Steel, heated to that point, quits being magnetic. So if the temp gets above that, any temper is lost. If this affects stock rods, or if temper matters in this context I don't know, but it's something to take into account.
It does matter, and he heated it way too hot. You only want it to get in the 400 degree range. Red of any shade is above 900.
Thanks Uncle Tony. Been looking on how to do a rod swap and your method saves the rod and the piston. Just what I needed. You Rock!
His method ruins the piston as most do.. You need specialty jigs if you want to save the piston.
Awesome as always Sir! Thanks for the Super Useful info for us regular folks!
This was the video I was waiting for. Along with every new video of course. Good job!
On factory assembled press fit wrist pins the rod small end was typically induction heated.
Are you dumb? Clearly this was a how-to if you dont have a shop or induction heater.
Heating the rod will drive out the moisture.
Then when you paint cute little flowers on it they will stick better.
I did a dirt bike piston by putting the piston pin in the freezer and the rod in the oven at about 210 degrees, a little oil and it slipped right into place then let it cool
Cool! I’ve always been worried about setting pins in rods. I’ve always had the machine shop do them. I’ve been curious about replacing pistons of different metals, and domes. This was definitely an eye opener! Thanks again!
I have a Samurai I'm working on that has rods like this, although they're a lot smaller than that old Mopar! I think I'm going to try a machine shop for this one though, I feel like the tiny little pistons and wrist pins won't take my ham-fisted attempts well. It really looks easy in your video, and if I didn't have a machine shop ready to do it for me, I'd be out there in the shop with a torch myself.
VGG got a tour of the Blue Print engines factory. They do so many if these that they have a special fixture. Machine presents piston appropriate side up with wrist pin inserted to proper depth. The operator has a rod presented also in the correct orientation. He places the piston end in a heating slot and presses a button. When the rod is ready a light goes green. The operator moves the rod over to the piston and pushes a button which properly inserts the pin.
That was Cletus, not VGG.
If you put the piston pin assy in the freezer -10, you only have to heat the rod to 120 to 130 degrees. It's much easier. Especially on the rod metal.
My son-in-law did this no torching work like a charm
Thank Tony for another awesome video! I remember the 1st time I seen this done..i was like oh my God my RODS!! The machinist was an old guy that was known for building race engines so i didnt dare question him. That engine saw some high revs and never had an issue with it! I still have machinist do certain things for me just cause their way better at it
The new Mapp gas is nothing like the OG stuff from the 2000’s that got discontinued. In fact, it is only marginally hotter than propane. Look it up. Don’t let the sound or looks of the flame fool ya.
It's still hotter. If you try this with propane, you can't heat it enough. MAPP gas just barely does it, but it does it. I use oxyacetylene torch myself. That will get it way too hot, so you have to be very careful with that.
I looked into that too. MAPP gas is new and less hot than MAP gas of old. They snookered us by adding that extra P and it is only a couple hundred degrees hotter than the older stuff.
Sorry, than the propane stuff. Correction in my wording.
Yep only about 100 degrees F hotter than propane
@@elmerfudpucker3204 You only need the rod to get to 400-450. Propane will work just fine. A toaster oven would work just fine.
Thanks for the tech Uncle T. Got a 327 Chevy that needs a new piston. Might give it a shot on all 8
Good stuff.
A simple pin stop can be built on a mill or drill press table (or any flat surface). An infrared thermometer takes away the chance of extracting the temper of the rod. 430-460 degrees F is what I aim for.
400 range is what you want. If you got it red like Tony, its too hot.
Another great uncle Tony tip! See ya tomorrow for sure!
I've always had good results just tapping it out with a socket as the driver. I've been told it can't be done that way, but it works just fine.
It will work if you dont care about ruining the piston or pin.
@@SOLDOZER It works without damaging anything if you're only moderately careful. The socket is Cr-V, which is far softer than a pin, so it won't be damaged that way. It's done on a block of wood, which is softer than aluminum, no damage there, either. I've been rebuilding engines for almost 40 years and haven't had a problem using this method.
Great job Tony.
The only other advantage to having a machine shop doing this that they would check the bore of the large end of the rod and machine it if it is found to be out of round.
There are some propane torch rigs that are capable of high heat operations but you won't find them usually at the local hardware store. I have used some in the plumbing trade in place of acetylene units.
make sure upon install that the rod is in the proper direction according to piston valve relief,so the rods don't bind on the crank.
I'll be doing this myself after your tutorial. Easy method and excellent how to. Thanks!
Thanks for this info I'm in Canada we don't have any machine shops anymore
To the best of my knowledge MAP gas is a mix of accetaline and propane it kinda smells like accitaline win it comes out of torch not burning.Done similar things many times.
Machine shops have messed up my co$tly forged pistons a couple of times. Will experiment on a couple of used rod / pistons Thank Uncle Tony .
Same here sad to say
Forged pistons will be free floating. If yours were press fit they were junk.
@@SOLDOZER TRW for a turbo Corvair Spyder. Not the very best but dependable nos.
Great vid but the two torches have different nozzles one is a ts4000 which is a bigger flame that's what u have on the yellow map tank but the blue prop tank has a wk something nozzle which is smaller. Map gas does burn hotter tho so could be a reason to pick it over prop but I'm no expert.
Very good practice, nice job explaining Tony.
Sure looks easy. I'd like to see how to remove the pin and rod by this method - or any method. Hyd. press without a jig is a rough go. Heating the rod end just seems to heat the pin too and nothing moves. I've tried this many times and the only way I've ever got them apart is with a cold chisel and hammer. Crack the rod and drive the pin out. Save the piston, scrap the rod. Usually needs to be the other way around.
Thumbs up 👍 Thank you for the Video uncle Tony I enjoyed watching 👀
STEVE Dulcitch has a video on how to make a tool that presses the pin in or out without any heat or damage to the pistons with nothing more than an old pin and a threaded rod . IT works like a c press for kingpins and you don't have to heat the rods ,maybe putting the pins in freezer to install to go back easier.I know how UT doesn't care too much for those guys but its a pretty ingenious tool
Where can I see that???
@@brandonbelongstocharlottef1798 Homemade tool removes press pin on Steve Dulcitch channel on RUclips
@@ronnieb7408 thank you sir 👍
If you're going to trash the piston and pin like that, might as well just heat it and smack it out with a socket. A lot less work.
You should build a clone/Hemi Predator, stock rod, stock crank, stock piston and see how long 25hp will hold👍
Gallon can, oil, hot plate, put little end in the oil, I think 450 F. works, the oil is your assembly lube . Push 'em right in . You might wanna use a heat gun to see if 450 F. is enough .
Never tried to use a little torch to change wrist pins before norm just use a big ass press and spacer between the rod and piston and a socket to push the pin out.....id figure id would heat transfer to the pin or piston
If you're swapping a set of pistons I guess you can save torch gas and time by removing then immediately reheating for install before the small end gets cold?
No.
No cherry red, "you're not looking to have the heat come up the shank of the rod" that got a good laugh outta me. I could just about hear the clatter of piston and rod on start up after reassembly and hoping uncle rodney didnt make a quick exit. Lol....
Good on ya uncle tony always helping out the home-gamer DIY man….!!
I use a propane torch all the time! No problem.
Usually you share great knowledge.. Not this time, the rods are around 55rc harness from the factory, which is a temper of around 500°f for these rods, so anything above that will futher temper them back, and anything above 550°f has effectively nullified the heat treat.
So, any glowing... Is too far.. You should be shooting for color change of about "hay", not even into "blue".. But overall, just putting them in a 450°f oven will hit it everytime.
....... I can. Promise you, if you purchase a set a RC hardness test files, you'll see the big end is much harder than the small end of the rods you just destroyed.
As a machinist with a fairly extensive knowledge of metallurgy, I thoroughly agree with every detail of your explanation. I love UT but I gotta back you here.
Agree. Don't get red will destroy temper
@@vincentwhite7693 I do appreciate that, as a knife maker who's a former mechanic, I take HT very seriously.
True. This is why nobody should take everything Tony says as fact.
Great videos Tony. I have a dilemma, had shop press new pistons on stock rods sbc. My problem is after installation into block I don't have rod to rod clearance. Was very careful to install bearings correctly and make sure chamfer on rod faced counter weights fillet. I made sure I did not mix rod caps. I'm at a loss here, sure could use some help.
Ps. Not my first rodeo, but first in 35 year. Yikes!
Playing with racecars that was one job I hated, not difficult just a pain. Was a joy when we learned about floating pins with clips
Awesome vid! I appreciate the information here, I should have listened to the very first thing you said and taken mine to a machine shop! Haha, I ruined a 440 6 Pack Rod, and Tweaked a KB 137 Piston Head!!! I mentioned your chanel in the video I'm posting now crediting you with giving me the confidence to try this myself. You make it look very easy. I just found your channel and look forward to watching more of your stuff!
Just had the machine shop do mine for a 4.0 Jeep $120.00. Wish I saw this video sooner.
I am a chemist. MAP gas has more cabron atoms, which is not very important because... oxygen is the key. The structure of the torch is what really matters. Higher gas flow and more oxygen will produce the heat required to release the pin using propane only.
I used to have a small plug to use as a stop when pressing the pin. Compensate for the rod side play. I only did it so people wouldn't tell me I was sloppy
Thanks Tony. I'll put that in my toolbox 🤔
Thanks! This is very timely information for me!
I have done this using a toaster oven and stove top coil as well, same principle applies.
thanks so much uncle tony. Regards
That is hot..if it looks different afterwards, it is different. I'm not a metallurgist, but some tempering is done several hundred Fahrenheit degrees cooler than this, meaning this rod is probably different, which is more likely to mean weaker than stronger. I'm sure you've done it many times successfully, but that may just mean the rods are overbuilt at the small end...they do seem more prone to breakage near the big end.
I wonder what the wrist pin temp is after the heat transfer? I'd be surprised if even a cheap wrist pin isn't heat treated.
I have a rockwell tester..maybe going to do this to some old parts and check before and after hardness.
I did purposely bend a stock rod, twisted it about 180 degrees along its length. It was easier than I expected, so maybe it is soft and it doesn't matter, but I'd rather not heat any critical parts to that temperature.
Switch the bottles and torch heads and see the difference. One of those torches is way better quality than the other
That was good to know and well demonstrated
Very good videos Tony, I enjoy your information
A true Mopar man there aren't many old-school guys left
Excellent vid Uncle Tony. I'm assuming this is one way to do the much debated practice of "turning the pistons around backwards" on a 318,to change the offset that you mention in the pistons,to get a bit of added low end torque. I ask because i've always wanted to try it.
Just to remind, the pin should not protrude past the outside edge of the piston on either side, when you push the rod against the inside wall of the piston. If it does, I would then actually take a measurement, and ensure the two sides are equal in the play. Keeps the pin from scrapping the wall of the cylinder bore, if the rod and pin does go that far. I know it shouldn't, but it's better to be on the safe side.