Should Christians Move to Red States?
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Jon talks to Joel Webbon, the author of "Fight by Flight," to see why he favors moving from blue states to red states for Christians. Joel responds to some common objections.
#thegreatsort #redstates #moving
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With all the talk about moving to red states I thought I'd share with you a little about Ridge Runner in Kentucky. I was supposed to end the podcast today with this video but somehow neglected to include it. Here it is: rumble.com/v2x2bky-ridge-runner-promo-from-the-bend-at-cumberland-river.html
I considered this once, but I couldnt find any information about any good churches in the area. Any suggestions for churches, Jon?
As the mother of two single men in their 20s, absolutely flee! Because then you have hope of meeting like-minded conservative women, establishing your careers in more Biblically-minded communities, probably more affordable to the Biblical model allowing wives to stay home and raise children, and then your children will be born into those communities.
When my Dr. office asked what pronouns my six year old son uses last month the idea of moving hit me. Family and finance...
Run!
I am from California too. I’m so thankful in God’s providence, He got my dad a job in Texas and we moved in 79. Praise the Lord!🙏🏻❤️
As a missionary who has served in some of the most dangerous places of Sudan and Kenya for 18+ years, I fully agree with Pastor Joel. We need to pull at least half of our global missionaries from their battlefield outposts and bring them back to the home base to tactically regroup, resupply, retake lost ground, and unite with our fellow Christian soldiers who are spread to thin and don't have enough backup and support to decisively triumph over the Neo-Marxist, Globalist, and Corporate Fascist enemies waging all-out war in our own nation. This discussion is a vitally needed exhortation!
This is a great conversation that I have experienced in my own life. Moving to a red state 20 years ago has been great. I have been part of a church plant into a red state. What is interesting in these assumptions is that red states don't need to be evangelized when in fact they do. There are a lot of false teaching affirmed in the red states and the true Gospel is foreign to many so called believers, a familiar Christianity. The fact that it is safe for Christendom in these states allow us to build something great without much resistance from our neighbors and might make it easier to invite them to learn about the true God of the Bible. The fight in the red states is needed, many rural places are unchurched, we need country churches rather than a focus on urban megachurches. The opponents of leaving blue states face a similar critique that they levy based on an ignorance and generalizations of what it's like in the states their institutions rarely visit or touch.
Very true.
@@idontcare2851hearts and minds don’t need to be exposed in red states too??
How many young people from Christian homes in these ultra liberal states, like mine, WA, will be swayed by the politics and the majority of their friends, even at Christian universities where profs and kids are still liberal? How much more difficult will careers and finding spouses be? If our first duty is to our family, even those not yet formed, wouldn't we want to ensconce them among as many Christians as possible to give them the strongest most secure foundation? Then let those called to missions go out!
Too much common sense in this comment
We’re fighting in Bremerton, Washington! We’re launching a school in the fall, Christian classical school. We have an amazing church. It’s possible to stay in fight, but only if you have community.
You say that like children can't be just as easily influenced by conservative or liberal atheists in red states.
Why do you only want to study or hang around people who agree with your worldview? What I think it is you are afraid your family might change their Christian worldview. Send them to University of Tel Aliv in Israel and study archaeology under Dr Israel Finkelstein. Read his book The Bible Unearthed and you will learn the exodus and conquest did not happen as described in the Bible.
Read the gospel accounts of the resurrection. In Matthew the women encounter an angel sitting ON the rock while in Mark it one angel INSIDE the tomb and in Luke it is TWO angels INSIDE the tomb. Which account was the inspired one?
@@RQ55co True, that's my situation in New York.
I'm a dispensational pre-millennialist. I believe in the immanent return of Christ. I don't necessarily believe the world will get "worse and worse," though I do believe in a future great tribulation where the presence of the Church and the Spirit is removed and hearts are completely hardened. But, I believe EVERYTHING I do today has eternal value and carries into the millennial reign of Christ as well as the eternal state, including my family, my work, my social endeavors, etc. So I work diligently, invest my money, raise my family, do good for my community, and look to the future with great hope that Christ may return any moment and reward me for my faithfulness, or that he may tarry, and my children's children will carry on the Christian heritage I gave them. Primarily, I trust that Christ is accomplishing what he promised, "I will build my church." That's what he is doing presently. So I seek to be his ambassador for the sake of his elect, and disciple them to do the same.. That's the summary of my thinking. That's not a "we lose down here" mentality. "You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master." Matthew 25:23
Jon, I was looking forward to seeing the video about Kentucky. You mentioned you were going to play it. Where can I find it?
Absolutely we should. Washington DC and Northern Virginia had became completely unlivable. I moved to NW Arkansas. 1/4th of the cost of living and a church on every street corner. Moving was the best decision I ever made. I would never raise my kids in the greater DC area
I'd give anything to get out of Chicago. But I have no money, I work barely part time, and I have an elderly father. I am trapped here.
They can never take the God given right of Freedom You were born with, brother 💪
Get involved at the local level - this persecution hasn't reached the point of bloodshed
@Yesica1993, God has a plan for you, I wouldn't worry, pray and trust God wherever you are on this planet, He is with us and will never forsake us.
Chicago has several Christiam communities many of Which are conservative Evangelicals. They hard to find. . .but if Jonah was commanded to stay in Ninevah , then a gues he may have a plan for you as you stay in the windy city.
Where would you go if you could move? I might know people who could help...
Lol isn’t Chicago better than where you come from?
I may not agree with Joel on eschatology but I agree with him 100% on this issue. Do a tactical retreat if necessary to win the fight later.
What happened? Jon said “ here’s the video “ and it ended? Can you post the video 🙌🏻
I know! I remember including it and cant' figure out what happened. It's pinned above. rumble.com/v2x2bky-ridge-runner-promo-from-the-bend-at-cumberland-river.html
Hi Jon, just to let you know, the tile at the end of the video does not link to your Ridge Runner video with Abbatoy. Instead, it's a link to your video about the GCC/Covid documentary.
Check out the pinned tweet.
Great conversation, thank you both.
This idea doesn't strike me as novel, controversial or polarizing. As you said, Jon, most of what Joel proposes falls under the 'good parenting' umbrella. More polarizing is Joel's rollout of it in which people who don't subscribe to it are guilty of something (pietism, stupidity, bad eschatology, etc,) Yes, Joel has used all of those terms before.
I think you previously said you weren't completely on board with Joel's idea but I could be wrong. If I am correct, I noticed that he didn't accuse you in this interview of pietism or of having bad theology.
The pietist objection is Joel trying to make sense of the vitriol he's received. The strongest accusations against him we didn't talk about in the podcast. So he's not saying disagreement with his plan is pietistic. He's saying the motivation for much of the harsh treatment his ideas have received results from pietism. That's a worthwhile conversation. The "stupid" clip was taken out of context and thankfully those who promoted it incorrectly have mostly apologized. The eschatology angle isn't intrinsic to Joel's point. It's a partial motivator for him, but not the main motivator and certainly not the motivator that most people defending him have.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast
You didn't voice any objection to anything he is selling in his book. Is that because you agree with him 100% on everything or some other reason?
Not sure what third party and context you are referring to but Joel himself said he thought christians living in blue states was 'stupid' in one of his own videos- I saw it!
Disagree! His newfound post-mil eschatology is deeply connected to this. There is not a broadcast where he is not harping about his newfound and 'superior' post-mil stance which he presumably has become an expert and authority on in a very short time. 'The rest of them don't get it' has become the theme of his song.
What might be interesting is a online debate where the pros and cons of this subject are pitted against one another- instead of two friends who appear to be in lockstep on the issue- one of whom is selling a book.
@@solideomusical Yours is not the first comment asking for a dialogue with someone who disagrees. Joel has tried to get that to no avail. It's similar to the G3 debate. I'm open to having that discussion but it would be better if Joel hosted that since he's the source of the issue people seem to have.
As for the video- Yes, I'm referring to the one you saw. That one was a clip separated from context which qualified it. That's why multiple people who posted it apologized to Joel because it misrepresented him.
As for the postmil thing- Joel addressed that in this video. That's not what this controversy is over. Yes Joel is postmil, yes that factors into his desire to see Christians move to Red states, not that's not the main reason for doing so or the reason people are taking issue with him.
Idk if I agree with everything in his book. I'm doing the interview to find out what he thinks. He's a guest on my show. I'm respectful to guests. Joel acknowledged I wasn't postmil. Idk what else there was to argue about. As I said, moving a family to a safer place seems like a common sense thing to do. I don't understand why this is a controversy.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast Thank you for your response. If the 'they are stupid' video is a contextless smear I don't want to continue saying that, but I do recall him saying it in the very context which is the subject of his book. Do you know where the full context would be that would alter the meaning of what he said?
@solideomusical Joel made the video private. I remember the same statement. He called Christians who stay in blue states like California, stupid. There was no taking it out of context. Joel has since refined his position, but saying it was taken out of context while removing the evidence is troubling.
What is it with global missions? I hesitate to talk about it because I know it's a biblical thing to do, but it's seems like there's this bizarre over-emphasis out of all proportion to what the Bible instructs us to do, especially in SBC world. I can identify the problems with the fruit of it, like the animosity towards rank-and-file local Christians, but I can't quite put my finger on the root of the problem.
You’re right. Rubbed me the wrong way at Southeastern
American Christianity has fallen so far down that we need missionaries from Korea, China, and Africa.
Hey Jon us Kentuckians are eager to see where the new Christian bunker in our state is going to be. The stream cut off right before the ad!
Pinned comment
I’m not on Twitter. It would be great if you’d mention it in your next podcast.😊
@@mittengrandma807 pinned comment I should have said.
I have a sensed that this self segregation has been happening organically anyway and will continue to pick up pace is people are becoming more mobile, especially being able to work from home and are more comfortable with homeschooling their children. It cuts across all demographic lines, but essentially if you like the blue state ethos (tax structure, teaching emphasis in public education, mandates during pandemics, etc., etc.), then by all means move to a blue state and live happily among other blue state people. If, on the other hand, you prefer the red state ethos (tax structure, teaching emphasis in public education, mandates during pandemics, etc., etc.) then move to a red state where you get to live among red state people. That should make everyone happy. The added benefit would be we could see which system allows people to flourish better than the other. Wouldn’t we all like to know which system results in people who are happier, healthier, and more prosperous?
I'm in California and I finally got approval from my manager to work remotely. However, after trying for three years, I feel like it's too late to leave now. If I was able to leave in 2020 when I originally started asking for approval, it would have made a lot of sense. My sons are much older now: almost 16 and 13 and going into 11th and 8th grades (homeschooled). They have friends and we have a faithful (albeit a little squishy) church. My main reason for moving now would be in a place where my boys can find godly wives and where my wife and I can purchase land to pass on to our children. We've visited Moscow and loved it--but should I wait until they've graduated? I've prayed a lot about this but get no clear direction from the Lord, so I just stay put. Thankfully I'm not in one of the bigger cities, but the homelessness is getting worse here, and I don't see it getting better anytime soon.
DON'T WAIT. THE KIDS CAN MAKE NEW FRIENDS
Moscow is great. We have visited and loved it’s small town feel. We are down in Boise, but it’s becoming way to crowded for us.
I’d say, get into Moscow before it becomes unaffordable.
My Nephew left Australia for Los Angelos and plays in orchestra's for movies and classical orchestras. He has made no complaints about life there. Isn't California the eight largest economy in the world.
Don’t wait…don’t sacrifice their innocence for emotional comfort, brother. I’m speaking from experience- ex-teacher turned homeschool mom of 6 for 30+ yrs. Please, for their sake, take a leap of faith. The Lord will give His grace! ❤️
@@westyso.cal.8842 It already IS unaffordable. We need a second Moscow, and a third, and a fourth. Sadly all you hear about in these conversations is Moscow. But we need more options other than just "any Red State".
I wasn't entirely sure whether Pastor Joel was talking about the effects of state level politics or community level culture. Living where you do must be very different from living in New York city.
32:01 Laughed so hard I almost crashed my car! 😂
I am a California conservative who now lives in Texas. The Lone Star State is much more culturally Christian. But many of the churches I visit are thin on theology. I think this is a problem throughout the nation in American Christianity as illustrated in Brian Wolfmueller's book, Has American Christianity Failed?
15:41 as the guy who left a bad part of Texas for South Dakota (at 24) I was about to say.
I think we owe our hometowns but you also owe yourself. It’s a good topic.
I keep dreaming I'm having trouble with packing, shipping, tickets, and flights. And it's about going to another country, not another state.
Global missions?
Clean up our own disintegrating, crumbling, house before "rescuing," the world.
Joel is right, we have spread ourselves to thin.
Charity begins at home. Take care of our family before we take care of our neighbor's family.
We are unhealthy.
Does anyone remember the M. Night Shyamalan movie, "The Village"? Whenever I hear about how we should all move to red states, I think of that movie. Wherever we go, sin will be.
This is conversation about hostility toward Christianity via government more than about individual sin.
I literally was about to post this very sentiment!
@tinamariejohnson7520 Thank you. To be clear, if you truly feel God is leading you/your family to a red state, then grace and peace to you. Seriously. But don't confuse a more lenient/friendly state with utopia.
Appreciated this thank you. I look at this time in history like the fall of the battle at helms deep in Lord of the Rings.
We need to retreat and regroup.
Disappointed the featured guest is the same guy that called John MacArthur a loser.
I think he said MacArthur had "loser theology." Not that he was a loser personally. I stood up for McArthur during that debacle but there's a difference between critiquing someone's theology and going after them personally.
I agree...I have been a long time listener to this podcast and have enjoyed the perspective and content but I am very concerned that you are aligning yourself with Pastor Joel who is arrogant, condescending and harsh.
This is kind of random, but does anyone out there have any experience with Lifewise Academy?
When I was a child, I believed in fairy tales and mythology ,now as an adult I believe in reality and science.
Birds of a feather flock together!
I’ll offer a third option: move to a red county and get involved. The perpetual thorn in the side of liberal politics is the outlier red counties.
Do you realize your videos are often blurry? I've asked before but not sure you've seen it.
It could be the processing
?
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast 🤷♂
Not for me.
In the "for what it's worth" category, and coming from someone who began their Christian life in Virginia, and then moved to NY for her husband's job and has lived here now 21 years, I would really urge all of you to read Total Truth, by Nancy Pearcey. The vast majority of Christians in America do not have a Biblical worldview. So many of these questions and especially the comments that are pushing back, would be much better understood if people read that book.
FL has turned red, but still a hellhole. We are running out of places to flee
Matthew 10 is NOT about the average believer leaving an area because of persecution or opposition!
The context is about Christ's specific MISSIONARY men (the 12) and His call to them to go to every town in ISRAEL to preach the Kingdom of Heaven!!
Jon just sits there and agrees with this twisting of Holy Scripture. This is terrible. Both of you need to repent.
No one said they were direct parallels. Joel is responding to people claiming that fleeing persecution is contrary to the NT. No it’s not.
@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast He took the verses out of context. To make a specific point that Christ commands us to flee persecution.
And yet you still defend it. You should know better.
@@akadwriterIt’s not out of context to draw applicable principles from the text. Joel never said it was normative for every believer in every situation. He’s gleaning wisdom from our Lord’s teaching.
@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast He implied it is normative because he doesn't qualify with something like "well this is applied to missionaries" and his book is about that very issue!!
Joel just says Christians are commanded to flee persecution (in the context of Matthew 10).
But I have to remember, you are the guy who said you don't have to see a clear command in the New Testament for a supposed church mandate (creating a Christian nation)!!! Clearly Scripture is secondary to you, at least for your pet projects.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast Using Christ's instructions to His messengers to make a political argument is the same exact thing the Communist left does when they twist Christ's words to the young rich man in order to argue against capitalism. I agree that there are times where there are applicable principles in Christ's words, but this isn't one of them.
I believe that we who are post mil, theonomic and presuppositional, and who live in cities like NY, LAX OR any liberal, secular state, needs to stay in those areas ( if the lord Wills), in order for the power of the Gospel to be proclaimed in these areas.
All authority and power has been given to christ, not only in Texas, Moscow and other places, but, it's all of christ for all of life in NYC also, if we truely believe in the christianization of the whole world.
He's talking about electoral math. I moved from NJ to TX for all the reasons in this video. NJ is lost and TX needs reinforcements!
This discipleship is what has made me go CN:
1. We lose down here
2. Follow this losing strategy
3. Lose kids and families at home. See, you're doing it right.
@@davepage2466Christian Nationalist
IF MOVING TO A RED STATE..MAKE SURE YOU ARE LED BY PRAYING AND THE HOLY SPIRIT..PRAYING PRAYER PARTNERS...AND DISCERNMENT.
Hard to advocate the ceding of territory. But when safety and spiritual oppression is abounding, fleeing may be the only option.
Pray for Reformed University fellowship to start missions chapters at Tge College of NJ amd Princeton. All Christains are missionaries by definition , no exceptions. The Christian life is missionaries
We might need to move to Uganda soon
We moved from CA to Ark....and Walmart family $$ is putting DEI in schools of this Red state. [Wash. Free Beacon 4/'23]
I still believe this still dangerous.... We will go across the world but you will not go across the street to help your neighbor...
I am glad that I am among the godless group of people.
I totally believe Jesus is returning soon, and will literally reign with us in the millennial reign, and everything will continue to get worse (this should be obvious by reality, that it IS getting worse morally, and spiritually), but what is soon? 10 years? 50? 200? That is unknown. And I would be more than willing to tactically retreat....but the Apostles expected Jesus to return soon, and even in their lifetimes, and lived accordingly. We should too. And death for all of us is one day closer. No suicide missions though
Joel believes that one thing CN should do is remove a woman's right to vote.
Oh, and for the Christian men out there, he also doesn't believe you should have a right to vote if you aren't a land owner.
Jon, I understand you are busy, but some of us watch a lot of Joel's content. Please be more discerning. We don't want to watch a video of you explaining how the wool was pulled over your eyes and you missed obvious issues with the men you are platforming.
"Are We Willing to Adjudicate This Matter Biblically?" is a perfect answer to this unbiblical nonsense. I would encourage anyone too look the video up.
We left California for Idaho four years ago.
We are seeing thousands of people move into our area. It is becoming quite crowded with tons of traffic and people and noise. It has gotten way populated and reminds me of what we left. It feels just like Southern California again.
Boise is flipping over to become very progressive and liberal.
I fear that in ten years or less, it’s going to be so left-leaning that we’ll have to move again.
Liberalism is cancer
What ethnicity are you?
@@jackblack496
Curious why would you ask?
@@westyso.cal.8842 the forum is about religion and politics why is race not relevant ?
You need to start from first principles in scripture. Without that your arguments hold little weight and have no authority.
These churches are following antiquated ideas. Some people are enlightened and are advanced enough to follow medical science and psychology latest findings regarding women's rights and gay rights.
Even Jesus realized there is a time to leave and wipe your feet.
Yes, they should, but only the stupid ones. Most of them.
Great commission is go to All....not run and hide in remote rural places with only believers and wait for rapture. So 1st off dont redefine great commission. You dont totally do that because u admit some validity to missions....but if you were consistent you would have to then say send missionaries but vacuum new converts out to isolated rural areas asap rathet than plant long standing churches in all the world. Overall i just find your arguments very shallow and devoid of authority from scripture.
please move to red states - please
Done!
@@smhbbag1 maybe we can get all of them to move to Oklahoma
@@GodlessGubment it's no fair for only one state to be awesome then
@ShopRat-cf9tr it depends. I listen to as much as I can tolerate. Joel likes the “alternative economy” for his persecution fetish so I’ve heard this song before.
I am having one of my only in America moments. People wanting to move to states so they don't have to live under "socialistic " policies. So glad I live in Australia. We know the happiest countries in the world are the Nordic countries where religion s little affect. The fastest growing demographic in religion is that of the "nones" The Southern Baptists have fallen from 16 million to 14 million and only a third of those are active. If you are so confident in your beliefs why not stay in the blue states and witness to them.
I live in New York. Did you watch the interview?
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast this is so funny to outsiders because America doesnt even have a left wing party. We have a center right party and a far right party. You believe democrats are on the left but you would be wrong. They have some left wing members perhaps, but the legislation they have passed is always right of center. Obamacare was straight up ripped from conservative think tanks.