Beautiful stairs, but those might be the most painfully ugly balusters I’ve ever seen. They look like something a little kid would ask for. To each their own, but I can’t imagine thinking they look fitting of the rest of the house, let alone “nice.”
For me, the best 'adjustment' for the hearts and stars will be to get rid of them altogether. They belong in a cheap 'theme' family restaurant or fast food chain. As you say though, "to each their own".
Isn't it wonderful to hide behind a computer screen and write rude comments presumably you'd never say to someone in person but then again, “you might be rude enough to say them?”
Nicely done. I did a job very similar to this about 2 years ago out of white oak as well. Something to look out for- the stain never effects the wood and the putty the same... You can always somewhat see the putty. So I personally deliver these projects with no putty and recommend that they fully stain and coat the job first, then use a "post-finishing" oil based putty to get the color perfect according to the final color. Especially with white oak, which has so much variance... They are likely going to have to get 3 or 4 different shades of their finishing putty to make it look right. Of course, the best choice is simply to find ways not to put holes into the stair treads like creative clamping and gluing.
Never easy to know where you’re going when the client has bad taste… Our job is much easier when the design makes sense. Regardless, keep up the good work !
Another option would be to close up the gaps a bit with the thicker poplar, but when you go to cut the shapes, account for the spacing and template the cutout accounting for the gap. Won't quit be half a shape on each Ballister, probably close to 3/8 of the shape on each side and the difference is made up in the spacing. It would give the shapes a better...... shape. Center a full template of tue stars and hearts on the already spaced ballisters. I love treading and trimming stairs. It's the most rewarding finish work iv done to date
Yeah, no. Those balusters 🥴 You and Brent need to gang up on the owner(s) and explain to them, a nice civil baluster intervention. Keep us posted Richard. Hope they give you all you can handle on this job. It needs your expertise 👍
I like the railing I’m designing something similar for my own house, interesting I never even realized someone else would see it differently, it’s something you would see in 1890’s
I agree, I want to see them bust out the lathe and turn some legit old school balusters. The hearts and stars are like 8 year old kids play house trim.
On your jack miters where you put your biscuits, traditionally you also do a return miter into the riser instead of a straight cut, it helps run the grain around and looks tight. You do great work . 👍
Tread’s look pretty good, I might suggest rough sawn for the balusters? I have built lots of staircase’s including, free standing spiral staircase’s. I hope you guys get the job. I worked for Artistic Stairs for a while and the tread’s are similar to the way we made them
Richard use MDF for mock-ups whenever you can instead of expensive hardwood. You can provide finish samples of various wood/stain/paint etc the client can see - they’re reusable job after job
I did not like the stars and heart design when I first saw it in the last video but now seeing it in the rustic barn setting it makes alot more sense. great work as always!
@@JoshWrightWoodworking Yes, but he suspects they are going to want wider balusters, so why not make them as well and show the difference? And impress every one with his hard work and options.
I was waiting for a reveal at the end that this was a joke, or maybe that they were going in a kids playhouse or something. There must have been a miscommunication with that baluster concept. No way that is what the customer envisioned.
I was surprised when you turned the stairs in as a sample on the last video. The hearts and stars look a little DIY crafty. Not to your usual standards. If this was a requested design I would have declined.
Is it common to have a carpenter build a full sample like this? Or only on super high end projects? I can't imagine asking someone to build that for me in advance, but I suppose if I had piles of money, why not.
@@Max-hw6lv I never had to build a sample like that. Usually on a job that size there is an architect that makes design decisions. If you can build off of blueprints it is just a matter of them seeing some of your previous work. The problem as I see it is a mixing of styles. Rustic and whatever the stars and heart slats are.
You're gonna have issues with those mitered returns being glued up cross-grain to the tread. As those wide treads expand and contract the corner will open/lift.
I made those treads many times in the field. I always used returns on the nosing instead of rounding them over and most of the ones I did we used mitered brackets on the skirt matched up with the riser. Interesting pickets and I think after the rail and newel is one it would look good in that house.
It’s cool to see you take that in. To listen, examine, struggle through it. Hull is a master. What a gift it is to have your ass handed to you by a master. That’s what craftsmanship is. What art is: Giving a big, long beautiful shit and failing. Once the learning stops you’re dead. And that’s the way it should be.
Definitely wider balusters for better continuity of the shapes and perhaps a small 1/8"-1/4" chamfer on all the baluster edges (except where the shapes are cut out) to add a little more polish to the look.
The whole heart and star thing is just not a suitable design for this kind of barn but the sort of thing you would expect to see in a child's bedroom. Either way, if the customer pays then the customer gets to decide, so fair enough.
Maybe put a small piece to bridge the gap at the stars and Hearts! The design fits in with the Barn look for sure! Don't feel bad I've seen many mock up's get shot down even by the designer came up with the idea! Idea's on paper do not always translate the same in reality!
Your boy Brent is way off on the end grain . By adding the end cap your creating a week joint and over time it will open and you’ll always see the seem . Your glueing 12” of end grain to long grain . The tread will expand and the joint will fail . Seen it many times . Breadboard ends on a table is a good example . The tenon is only glued on the center and elongated dowels are added to hold it together when the glue ultimately fails . That’s why you typically see a chamfer at the joint to conceal the joint if it opens . If it’s specked by an architect do it and get paid . But as a woodworker he should know better.
The examples he showed me for the mitered tread returns were in houses that were about 100 years old and they still looked nice and tight. I don’t know if they used something better than biscuits though.
I like the hearts and stars especially if that element is picked up in the house somewhere else. Closing up the spacing on them will make them look good 👍 👌
I shoot my tread returns on as well but I do a small pilot hole to guide the nail. All it takes is some tough grain to send your nail through the top of your new tread.
I’m assuming you haven’t revisited your stair jobs . Those mitered end caps always fail. That joint always opens . I’ll bullnose the end grain all day every day
@@rgtn2441 Mitered returns are common practice in any high end home in my area. The only ones I've seen fail are the premade ones from the box stores. I don't use those so I haven't had any issues.
@@Tool_Addicted_Carpenter I do a lot of restoration work in a civil war era small town and as far back as the 1850s, better homes had the mitered returns. I haven't run into a failure yet other than treads then were often too shallow and the risers too steep. The joinery has withstood the test of time.
When you write driving put to the Ranch I had a flashback to 2 Guns movie when they abducted the Cartel Boss & drove off road with him in the bed or the truck!!😂👍👍 Hoping all is well Bud, Dirty Jersey out!!
It's funny to see a trim guy do stair work! All your techniques are not how the pros build stairs! Reminds me of when you tried to do hardwood floors! It ain't easy
Surely those cut outs in the balusters clearly seen in the video around the 6:10 mark, reduce the effective width of the baluster and would be non-compliant?
I think maybe metal railing would look the least bulky. That glue and sawdust you filled those gaps with, do you have a trick to make it take stain like normal wood? I have never been very happy with the results when I have done it.
WOW I cant believe you didn't pre prep the larger alternative wider balusters. Don't ever expect your clients imagination to know what it could look like. Always show them. You already made Brent look bad once. Your going to risk another rejection when you know it doesn't look 100% When doing sample, don't hold back go above and beyond and show finished alternatives.
Put biscuits, use the fancy clamp.. then.. nail using what seems to be huge 16g nails 🙄 there is no need for that big nail, a 23g nailer with 1.5" or a simple piece of tape is sufficient.. it's just to "hold in place" by the time the glue does its job.. and you even have already 2 biscuits..
Reason why the heart works and the star doesn't... The "absent" space in the heart shape can still be completed to form the outline of a heart and preserve proportion. The star on the other hand doesn't, since a star is 5 diamonds EQUAL in shape and rotated in 75 degree intervals. The separation/negative causes the 1, 3 , 4 diamonds to be equal but bigger than 2, 5 and distorts the underlying diamond shapes. Why not put the shapes within the pickets? Easier to router with a template and router bit with bearing. Finish off round corners with a chisel.
Balusters should never be attached with pocket hole screws, stair tread’s should be mortise out to except the balusters not that difficult to accomplish
It seems odd that theyre requiring mock ups from contractors/subs, especially if you were referred to them. (Your portfolio wasnt enough?) Just wondering how this went down? Was your bid accepted contingent upon an approved mock up?
Ok , so I do a lot of stair work, and yes the bullnose needs to have radius top and bottom, and yes it has to be 1"-1 1/8" thick, but the end grain you have is very desirable to most people, its very subjective, but these customers have bad taste ( in my opinion), I think you did a really nice job, and this is your first crack at it, BRAVO.
Totally agree about the end grain . You just have to know how to properly apply a finish to it . I’ve done plenty of stairs always used the end grain . I’ve seen so many stair cases with the mitered bullnose end caps and they look like complete shit not to mention it’s not a reliable joint . End grain to long grain . Joint always opens up an looks terrible
@@rgtn2441 I completely agree, and yes, the end grain requires a lot of sanding and careful application of stain and urethane, but the finished product is worth the trouble.
The stars and hearts get a big no from me, but not my house...
I agree ugly as hell.
All that money can’t buy taste.
Yeah I agree. How about some wrought iron ?
@@dukedude220 yes black iron spindles would look great too. This just looks tacky.
It's a NO for me too. 👎
Beautiful stairs, but those might be the most painfully ugly balusters I’ve ever seen. They look like something a little kid would ask for. To each their own, but I can’t imagine thinking they look fitting of the rest of the house, let alone “nice.”
You have to consider that you'll be living in this home/investment for a very very long time. This is much more than pink for girls and blue for boys
For me, the best 'adjustment' for the hearts and stars will be to get rid of them altogether. They belong in a cheap 'theme' family restaurant or fast food chain. As you say though, "to each their own".
@@taylormedia1000 huh?
Stars don't work with hearts for me stars kind of vane
Isn't it wonderful to hide behind a computer screen and write rude comments presumably you'd never say to someone in person but then again, “you might be rude enough to say them?”
Nicely done. I did a job very similar to this about 2 years ago out of white oak as well. Something to look out for- the stain never effects the wood and the putty the same... You can always somewhat see the putty. So I personally deliver these projects with no putty and recommend that they fully stain and coat the job first, then use a "post-finishing" oil based putty to get the color perfect according to the final color. Especially with white oak, which has so much variance... They are likely going to have to get 3 or 4 different shades of their finishing putty to make it look right.
Of course, the best choice is simply to find ways not to put holes into the stair treads like creative clamping and gluing.
Never easy to know where you’re going when the client has bad taste… Our job is much easier when the design makes sense.
Regardless, keep up the good work !
Another option would be to close up the gaps a bit with the thicker poplar, but when you go to cut the shapes, account for the spacing and template the cutout accounting for the gap. Won't quit be half a shape on each Ballister, probably close to 3/8 of the shape on each side and the difference is made up in the spacing. It would give the shapes a better...... shape. Center a full template of tue stars and hearts on the already spaced ballisters.
I love treading and trimming stairs. It's the most rewarding finish work iv done to date
100% agree on the shape cutout. They will look more natural.
When you’re dealing with Brent Hull you’re playing in the big leagues. You better bring your A game!
Yeah, no. Those balusters 🥴 You and Brent need to gang up on the owner(s) and explain to them, a nice civil baluster intervention. Keep us posted Richard. Hope they give you all you can handle on this job. It needs your expertise 👍
I like the railing I’m designing something similar for my own house, interesting I never even realized someone else would see it differently, it’s something you would see in 1890’s
I agree, I want to see them bust out the lathe and turn some legit old school balusters. The hearts and stars are like 8 year old kids play house trim.
My neighbor just ripped out her old deck and stairs from 30 years ago. It had the same ugly heart designs!!! Yuck
I helped build the three sided dovetail there. Nice to see we've worked on the same site. Cheers!
On your jack miters where you put your biscuits, traditionally you also do a return miter into the riser instead of a straight cut, it helps run the grain around and looks tight. You do great work . 👍
I’ve been subscribed to your channel for ages, having Brent Hull here as well has been awesome. Thank you!
Tread’s look pretty good, I might suggest rough sawn for the balusters? I have built lots of staircase’s including, free standing spiral staircase’s. I hope you guys get the job. I worked for Artistic Stairs for a while and the tread’s are similar to the way we made them
Richard use MDF for mock-ups whenever you can instead of expensive hardwood. You can provide finish samples of various wood/stain/paint etc the client can see - they’re reusable job after job
Glued on cross grain end will be a problem if humidity changes as either tread will crack or end will break off. Need to allow for movement
Someone with a brain!
Glad to know we have some real woodworkers on this thread!
Haven't seen the channel in a bit.
Always amazed at much you've progressed over the years. It's awesome to your growth.
How come the architect isn't designing and specifying the stairs?
I wish I could afford to hire Brent Hull! Encyclopedic knowledge historic architecture, and a cool dude
I did not like the stars and heart design when I first saw it in the last video but now seeing it in the rustic barn setting it makes alot more sense. great work as always!
Nah it still looks hokey.
@@DrewMtl to each their own🤷... either way, he's just doin what the customer wanted
@@JoshWrightWoodworking Yes, but he suspects they are going to want wider balusters, so why not make them as well and show the difference? And impress every one with his hard work and options.
@@DrewMtl ok
I was waiting for a reveal at the end that this was a joke, or maybe that they were going in a kids playhouse or something. There must have been a miscommunication with that baluster concept. No way that is what the customer envisioned.
I was surprised when you turned the stairs in as a sample on the last video. The hearts and stars look a little DIY crafty. Not to your usual standards. If this was a requested design I would have declined.
Is it common to have a carpenter build a full sample like this? Or only on super high end projects? I can't imagine asking someone to build that for me in advance, but I suppose if I had piles of money, why not.
@@Max-hw6lv I never had to build a sample like that. Usually on a job that size there is an architect that makes design decisions. If you can build off of blueprints it is just a matter of them seeing some of your previous work. The problem as I see it is a mixing of styles. Rustic and whatever the stars and heart slats are.
You're gonna have issues with those mitered returns being glued up cross-grain to the tread. As those wide treads expand and contract the corner will open/lift.
I made those treads many times in the field. I always used returns on the nosing instead of rounding them over and most of the ones I did we used mitered brackets on the skirt matched up with the riser. Interesting pickets and I think after the rail and newel is one it would look good in that house.
It’s cool to see you take that in. To listen, examine, struggle through it. Hull is a master. What a gift it is to have your ass handed to you by a master. That’s what craftsmanship is. What art is: Giving a big, long beautiful shit and failing. Once the learning stops you’re dead. And that’s the way it should be.
I like the stairs.. but their desire of the stars and hearts kills it for me. No ty
I hope they are paying you for the mock up process.
Definitely wider balusters for better continuity of the shapes and perhaps a small 1/8"-1/4" chamfer on all the baluster edges (except where the shapes are cut out) to add a little more polish to the look.
You don't have trouble with the tread return glued across the grain of the tread?
Glad someone is paying attention
It's cool to see the revisions on a project
The whole heart and star thing is just not a suitable design for this kind of barn but the sort of thing you would expect to see in a child's bedroom. Either way, if the customer pays then the customer gets to decide, so fair enough.
They have been used for thousands of years in buildings.
I digging that drone footage when you pulled in. I mean it really made the ol dodge look pretty BA
Looks great 👍🏼 , you did everything right , that job is yours!!!!
A balustrade with stars.
You are building a stairway to heaven.
It could be heaven or it could be Hull.
Maybe put a small piece to bridge the gap at the stars and Hearts! The design fits in with the Barn look for sure! Don't feel bad I've seen many mock up's get shot down even by the designer came up with the idea! Idea's on paper do not always translate the same in reality!
I wouldn't have submitted that tbh. Or at least given them an alternative with the bigger boards or designs accounted for the spacing. 🤷🏻♂️
Your boy Brent is way off on the end grain . By adding the end cap your creating a week joint and over time it will open and you’ll always see the seem . Your glueing 12” of end grain to long grain . The tread will expand and the joint will fail . Seen it many times . Breadboard ends on a table is a good example . The tenon is only glued on the center and elongated dowels are added to hold it together when the glue ultimately fails . That’s why you typically see a chamfer at the joint to conceal the joint if it opens . If it’s specked by an architect do it and get paid . But as a woodworker he should know better.
The examples he showed me for the mitered tread returns were in houses that were about 100 years old and they still looked nice and tight. I don’t know if they used something better than biscuits though.
I like the hearts and stars especially if that element is picked up in the house somewhere else. Closing up the spacing on them will make them look good 👍 👌
I'm surprised they didn't ask for a full mock-up with banister, posts and wider pickets.
I'm surprised he didn't provide it himself. Already one rejection go a step beyond the second time.
@@DrewMtl my thoughts exactly.
I shoot my tread returns on as well but I do a small pilot hole to guide the nail. All it takes is some tough grain to send your nail through the top of your new tread.
I’m assuming you haven’t revisited your stair jobs . Those mitered end caps always fail. That joint always opens . I’ll bullnose the end grain all day every day
@@rgtn2441 Mitered returns are common practice in any high end home in my area. The only ones I've seen fail are the premade ones from the box stores. I don't use those so I haven't had any issues.
@@Tool_Addicted_Carpenter I do a lot of restoration work in a civil war era small town and as far back as the 1850s, better homes had the mitered returns. I haven't run into a failure yet other than treads then were often too shallow and the risers too steep. The joinery has withstood the test of time.
the mitered returns were necessary too as they provided cover for the hand dovetailed balustrades.
@@edmessina8392 Exactly. I've never seen bull nose routs. Always formal returns. Mahogany, oak, maple, yellow pine. No failures.
Ah man you boys must be loving life... driving round in a 4x4 with a drone and working on real nice projects 👍
When you write driving put to the Ranch I had a flashback to 2 Guns movie when they abducted the Cartel Boss & drove off road with him in the bed or the truck!!😂👍👍 Hoping all is well Bud, Dirty Jersey out!!
I wanna rewatch that movie 😂
@@christophercrawford2736 Classic 😂👍👍
You need a van big time. It will change your life
I like the emphasis you put on them being NEW treads😎
It's funny to see a trim guy do stair work! All your techniques are not how the pros build stairs! Reminds me of when you tried to do hardwood floors! It ain't easy
Surely those cut outs in the balusters clearly seen in the video around the 6:10 mark, reduce the effective width of the baluster and would be non-compliant?
you can buy treads and returns at local hardwood flooring supply house.
I have never seen the spring style clamps you used on the mitered pieces you put on the treads. They seemed to be very handy!
Collins Miter Spring Clamps - I've got a set. Pretty nifty but a little spendy.
I think maybe metal railing would look the least bulky.
That glue and sawdust you filled those gaps with, do you have a trick to make it take stain like normal wood?
I have never been very happy with the results when I have done it.
Maybe make some cedar inserts for the shapes the stars gonna look weird no matter what unless you put an insert *or any contrasting wood
Don't think Brent Hull has a single thing on Richard M. Manion Architecture....Classical at it's finest
WOW I cant believe you didn't pre prep the larger alternative wider balusters. Don't ever expect your clients imagination to know what it could look like. Always show them. You already made Brent look bad once. Your going to risk another rejection when you know it doesn't look 100% When doing sample, don't hold back go above and beyond and show finished alternatives.
I'm afraid you're correct.
Love the drone shots bro u guys are getting professional with it...
What are those clip/clamps you use I did not see them in your amazon list or a link? If anyone know pls help. Thanks
The ballisters wouldn’t pass where I am. Inspectors want 3.5” or less all the way through. Don’t care what a customer wants.
Put biscuits, use the fancy clamp.. then.. nail using what seems to be huge 16g nails 🙄 there is no need for that big nail, a 23g nailer with 1.5" or a simple piece of tape is sufficient.. it's just to "hold in place" by the time the glue does its job.. and you even have already 2 biscuits..
Perhaps suggest some handwrought black iron, with hearts and stars in an aged brass metal?
Is Risinger Homes showing off this home also? Just watched a video from his channel that looked the same.
Mr. Lone Star Restoration, Brent Hull. He knows his stuff.
Man, those balusters look like something out of 5-Minute Crafts.
Ya this is tacky as hell.
Randon ? whats the model of the 18 gauge mailer you have? Any problems ?
I'm surprised they built that silo practically in front of one of the dormers.
Reason why the heart works and the star doesn't... The "absent" space in the heart shape can still be completed to form the outline of a heart and preserve proportion. The star on the other hand doesn't, since a star is 5 diamonds EQUAL in shape and rotated in 75 degree intervals. The separation/negative causes the 1, 3 , 4 diamonds to be equal but bigger than 2, 5 and distorts the underlying diamond shapes. Why not put the shapes within the pickets? Easier to router with a template and router bit with bearing. Finish off round corners with a chisel.
The ballistrates are a joke right?
Have you tried hot glue with Gorilla glue sticks. Seems to be working really well for me and a lot less nailing.
Brent: Reject! Go back to the drawing board. 😂
Balusters should never be attached with pocket hole screws, stair tread’s should be mortise out to except the balusters not that difficult to accomplish
Yea I think that was just for the mock up . But agree he shouldn’t have submitted it like that
I think if you submitting a mock up it should be a clone to the one you intend to build
Good Lord no no no with the stars and hearts. I thought you were joking.
Loved the way you used your DroidCam.
We’ll done. Professional customer service
Awesome work as usual. But those hearts and stars… seriously? 😄
Where do you get those clips to hold the corners?
I like the stair build but that baluster design sucks. I would rather like to see a nice Texas themed wrought iron balustrade.
Return the overhang also at the back of the trends just like the top for a more finished look
Good Luck! You got this!
Lindo trabajo .... Cómo siempre Master!!! N
Hearts and stars really!!! Is this for a playhouse
That carpenters pencil stressed me out a lil… nothing like finish work with a 1/8” line 😂 I know you know but you know…
All this inch talk messes with my head 😅
This is the Trim Carpentry equivalent of when Tobey Maguire's Peter Parker met Andrew Garfield's Peter Parker. 😅
It seems odd that theyre requiring mock ups from contractors/subs, especially if you were referred to them. (Your portfolio wasnt enough?) Just wondering how this went down? Was your bid accepted contingent upon an approved mock up?
I really really want a sliding table saw like that
The oak doesn't look right with the rustic look. I think. Pitch Pine or some nice Douglas Fir for me.
They sell those treads at Home Depot.
As a younger contractor trying to please the more experienced generation, I love the thumbnail
Can you get the hearts and stars CNC cut?
One day i wanna be as good as this guy true trim guy
I'm not sure about face nailing the tread return.
Does he get paid for doing the mock-up?
Gluing edge grain to end grain is a no no
You as a “carpenter” should know basic stair tread configuration. Carpenters have been doing stair treads in that style for over 100 years lol
Thought he was a hockey player. (That's "Brett")
Click bait. Good job.
So where was Brent hull?
Does this guy sell Dewaukee shirts? I need one for my boss for Christmas
the interlude with the drone chasing your truck was not needed
Says who? Illustrates the isolated nature of the landscape where the house is.
Nice work !!
i think i saw matt risinger on this site.
Great video!
A silo but no farm land....sure that makes sense !
What about the true 1 inch?
Ok , so I do a lot of stair work, and yes the bullnose needs to have radius top and bottom, and yes it has to be 1"-1 1/8" thick, but the end grain you have is very desirable to most people, its very subjective, but these customers have bad taste ( in my opinion), I think you did a really nice job, and this is your first crack at it, BRAVO.
Totally agree about the end grain . You just have to know how to properly apply a finish to it . I’ve done plenty of stairs always used the end grain . I’ve seen so many stair cases with the mitered bullnose end caps and they look like complete shit not to mention it’s not a reliable joint . End grain to long grain . Joint always opens up an looks terrible
@@rgtn2441 I completely agree, and yes, the end grain requires a lot of sanding and careful application of stain and urethane, but the finished product is worth the trouble.
It’s a “hard no” on the railing “baluStars” for me…
Looks like something to use on a kids playhouse…
-Definitely does not go with the rustic beams