Bessey edge clamp vs. F-clamp and wedge hack
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- I bought one of those expensive Bessey edge clamps. A very solidly built clamp, but just as awkward to use as my f-clamp and wedge type hack.
But in a pull off test in my strength testing machine, it held on impressively well.
I've been doing doing woodwork for decades. Stupidly I never knew about the F-clamp with a wedge idea, Thanks for the great tip
Yes, we had few of those exact ones and a few smaller ones at my previous job, but rarely used them. But when we did use them, these were extremely useful. You could even add a thick strip of wood in between to even out the pressure to the whole edge.
Yes we do that too. When edging a diameter we have curved packing blocks CNC'd at all diameters as a packer.
We use them were I work for edge clamping hardwood onto Formica, linoleum, marble and veneered table tops. We have about 50 clamps. Some days depending on what's coming through you can use all 50 in the morning and then repeat. Yes you need to manage the cam by hand sometimes over the edge of a 50mm edging. Same to release them. It gets your fingers if your not used to them. They are not perfect on all surfaces as sometimes just keep slipping. We have had the same ones for around 20 years. The rubbers are worn on a lot of them. The springs and the pins are first thing to fail.
We would be lost without them. Chucked on and off benches and the floor the frames have never failed. We also use them individually to close up 2mm pvc 2mm veneer edging at the join on a circular table.
Thank you, our beloved Matthias "Clamp master" Wandel, for yet another interesting and brilliant video.
I feel like ambidextrous thumb triggers near the handle that opens the cams would make this amazing.
I bought 6 knock-offs of that Bessey design about 20 years ago when I had a commission to build 8' office tables with oak edge banding. They worked very well, but I haven't used them since. The only edge banding I do these days is short runs for shelves and I just use parallel clamps. I can put two shelves back-to-back in 3 or 4 clamps and it takes just a few seconds
I have two of those Bessey edge clamps. I didn't buy them though. My uncle found them in the trash of a workshop being closed down. Having used them a few times (with the exact annoyances you describe), I can say, yes they are handy, but in no way worth the money (if I had bought them). The F-clamps you can get for that money are way more useful.
A joy to watch your videos.
Your workshop makes a great backdrop in the videos as well.
Always inspiring and I admire your imagination to keep coming up with great designs and ideas.
Well done.
One Handed Maker - Australia
Pretty interesting clamps indeed, Matthias! Thanks for testing! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Those edge clamps are hecka chonky too!!
I use a method similar to you with F clamps, never had a problem, I also have some of those 3-way C clamps that I think I have used once or twice in 10 years. For edge glueing wood aminate I just use blue painter's tape and let the glue suck it in, works fine.
Looking at the gap at 3:15 compared to before the test, I would say that the yoke yielded under load.
I guess these make the most sense for professionals who routinely need it, the same way I use expensive stuff where I work. It's nice to have something you can buy and use intensively for years!
I'm just a hobbyist woodworker, and tape is good enough for my edge glue clamping, ie. solid wood edge banding.
Those are very unique clamps, I didn't even know they existed! There are really specialized tool for anything... hehe
So I use these professionally and they work better than anything else for me.
They slide on with no effort even on 24mm boards.
If I have large edges to glue on(only have 12 of those) I combine them with my gluing press. Works beautifully
Bessey is generally way too expensive unless you use it professionally. For a hobbyist the quality is so good it can last for generations however.
Just repainted my granddads Bessey. They were so expensive he only had one and he was a framer!
Old stuff yup new stuff nope
Bessey isn’t really that good anyway. Jorgensen are much better.
My chanel is ❤😢😅😎🥰🤭😘🤫😎
@@larry78cj7at least in the small F clamps, I would agree with you, and I would also say the newer rubber handled Jorgensen F clamps are easier to use and get more force out of than my older wooden handled clamps of the same size.
As always, if you are doing a particular task a lot buy the flash kit. Otherwise, just make do. Although I'm very familiar with the cramp and wedge hack, the springy scrap and block variation is new and looks very quick.
Thank You
I occasionally need to do edge clamping, the bar clamp trick should work. I don’t recall seen this before, I’ve been woodworking for 50+ years
It would be cool to see you build DIY speakers, would combine a lot of your interests
As always, very interesting. Thanks, Matthias.
Seems like when they are the tool you need they really work, which did surprise me a little as I always thought the cams would bend the frame when the clamping forces needed to be more than electrical/masking tape tight... Though having now got a better view of them in this video I can see why they work so well and cost so much, they are very solid...
I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your collaboration with Marius! 🙂
Interesting! Looking forward to see what you and Marius get up to together, should be good fun.
Cool video. Very informative and easy to watch and listen. Good work.
I think i saw you do the F clamp trick, because that's what i do. No need for expensive stuff. The only difference is i use those wedges for doors. I bought a whole bag of them for 10 dollars from fleabay many years ago and it's worked great with that, especially since with wedges, you center the load. I found the Bessey (or similar, because there's other types) to not be as good.
I’d be curious to see that load the F clamp would withstand with the rubber pads removed.
Hard to tell from the video, but is the frame now ‘sprung’? The cams appear slightly closer together in the images before you test compared to post-test. Nonetheless, a well done test and I’m glad for the information you provided.
Hey Matthias, what practical tips have you got for parenting?
Raising children is much easier with some sort of mechanical hoist
@@matthiaswandel Sir Matthias, I often ask myself, Why buy a trampoline when a lever and CMU can send children to the stars?
Aside from the humor, great video.
I've found an inclined plane works well.
I've had surprisingly poor experiences with Bessey clamps. My budget sash clamps have proven to be much more useful than the Bessey parallel clamps I've got so I'd echo that sometimes the cheaper option might be a better one.
Not just sometimes, quite often if not the majority of times.
never tried the parallel clamps. They seek kind of clunky, but more importantly, they are out of my price class.
I have the other Blessy edge clamp, which l think we’re less expensive than the cam ones, work well enough, l needed them for a job and they were added to the job🎯🤣❤️
It would've been useful if you put the link to Marius' video in the desc.
can’t link to a video that doesn’t exist yet. would have been useful to pay attention.
@@matthiaswandel Ah sorry about that, I misunderstood.
I love watching your test comparisons! Is there any chance you could compare threaded inserts vs wooden taps? I have a project coming up and I’ve heard wooden taps were strong than inserts. And I’d love to see your test prove it right or wrong
suman did a pretty thorough comparison of wood taps vs threaded inserts and came to the conclusion that wood taps were better. that said, I'm sure matthias could take it to another level
Wooden taps ? always interested to learn !
@@CrimeVid I think he means threaded inserts vs wooden threads.
It depends on how often you want to undo the joint. If it's one and done I wouldn't bother with inserts but if I'm constantly unscrewing it and putting it back together I would get inserts.
Edit: Of course it also depends on the type of wood. I mostly build with MDF so you can forget threading the wood directly. I'm sure it's different for hardwood.
In weaker materials such as wood and fiberglass and aluminum, the length of engagement of the threads matters quite a bit. If you are screwing into a thick piece, threads hold pretty well. If you are screwing into a thin piece, a threaded insert would be wise. As an example, threaded high-strength fiberglass (G10 or FR4) will hold against the full bolt strength if the threaded piece is 1.5x bolt diameter. The ratio of bolt diameter to thickness of threaded piece seems to be the controlling ratio. If your threaded piece is 1.5x or 2x you have a good chance of strong holding.
Was there a bit of plastic deformation on the clamps? Looked like the spacing of the cams was bigger after the test.
Hadn't noticed that, but reviewing the video, indeed! I should repeat my test to see if it bends further.
@@matthiaswandel good luck breaking it completely! ;)
New clamp…and a new camera? Or different camera settings and or compression settings?
shot this one at 60 fps to work better wit hthe 50 fps that marius shoots, as he may reuse some of the clips.
It could just be me, but it looks like the frame did plastically deform after your test. I’d have to say it doesn’t reduce the functionality of the clamp but it certainly introduced some fatigue into the system. Again, it tough to tell in the video but it looks like the cams are farther apart after the test
yes, someone else pointed that out too. That suggests perhaps it is close to failure. So maybe I'll do the pull-off test a few more times.
Nothing beats BESSEY clamps...
Why there's no auto subtitles on your videos? Thanks.
Please complain to youtube. I don't know why.
I find a rubber band slipped over a spring clamp works just fine for straight edge clamping to cover plywood edge with a 1/8" strip but what do I know?
thankfully they have a great return policy
Abandonando seu canal porque você não disponibiliza as legendas...
Matthias, please make a drawing like Dewalt DW733, it would be more great project for us who are your followers.
Could you add a link to Marius' design please?
will do when his video is ready
Seems strange that Bessey put the point of pivot in that position - the issue with thicker pieces could just be solved by moving that point
And surely they could have hidden the stop so that it does not bite your skin
How to make a gear about your website Please 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
The cams dont slip. Like you can so obviously see that the cams dont slip. The clamp bends and the cams push out and rotate. The coefficient of friction is fine.
The frame is the limiting factor. You can see it bend in the video. It obviously deflects significantly. How did you miss that.
Please watch the video carefully
What have you got against Marius anyway?
Perfect for edge cases…
Nice video.
Can you change the handle to something like a t shape to turn bessey into plywood gripper to carry stuff or pull middle sheets from stockpiles?
Could be done. But you can't just push it on the edge of a piece of plywood unless its really thin plywood, so not that useful. The plywood gripepr thingies tend to clamp as a function of pull on the handle, and release when no lnoger pulling the handle.
I noticed your wedges were just blocks. Would actual wedges work better?
Any chance of you making your own edge clamps and comparing them to the Bessey's?
Very unlikely.
I don't really like the screw handle on the Bessey. Prefer a knob style.
You can never have enough clamps. However, you can have enough of these clamps ;)
I do prefer the rockler edge clamps
you mean those rubber band thingys?
@@matthiaswandelyes bandy clamps they come in a few different sizes
Am I the only person who can't find anything about a Marius Hornberger edge clamp design?
Nothing published yet. Soon...ish
I showed his clamp frame design initially, but he preferred to be the one to show it first, so cut that out of the video.
If you have the interest to test more, I wonder how much force the Bessey clamp loses when the tool and workpiece are dusty...
"cost 10x less". "1x less" would be free. I'm presuming you mean 1/10 as much.
as any non-pedantic person would understand, yes.
🅱️essey
It gschnorret isch gnueg globt😂
"promo sm" 😓
:)
Clamps are for wussies! My joints are so perfect the parts cling together perfectly on sheer friction alone! Sorry. I couldn’t help myself! Lol
I don't like the sentence fragment "ten times less" that you used in there... I get what you mean, no problem, but I can't bring myself to like it.
Vid is great. I like your hack better than I like the for-purpose clamp, and I also kind of feel like single-purpose devices are the bane of those of us without their own... barn with six basement stories to keep our gear and workshop space.
I used to be the type of person that would go out and buy tools like the this because of a particular job I was doing, but stacks of unused tools (now sold!) taught me that finding hacks like Matthias's is a much better way to go. I think a lot more about the crap I buy these days and it turns out I don't need a lot of crap. I can't imagine buying these clamps for perhaps one use per year that I'd get out of them. You'd need to buy several to make the investment worthwhile too.
I'm curious. Are you talking about 1:34, where he said _"And these cost almost ten times less."_
It looks like a complete sentence (not a fragment) to me, but then again I'm no expert. Should he have said "one tenth the price"?
Legitimately curious. (yes, I know my last statement is a sentence fragment for sure :)
@@sidgar1 ... yes? I'm not saying he's not speaking in complete sentences. I'm saying the fragment of a sentence that I have a problem with is the notion of "ten times less", because it's... stated in a way I don't like. Is there something objectively wrong with it? I don't know. I just hate the way it sounds. "One tenth the price" is much clearer and neater and avoids misunderstandings. I dislike any and all versions of "X times as small/few".
Note that I don't at all say that he can't say it like that. I'm not the boss of him. I just expressed a personal preference. I can't think of anyone in the world that is obligated to listen to me and obey.
@@th3voice Just to be clear, I wasn't criticizing you at all! I genuinely wanted to know what you meant. I'm a stickler for the fine details, so if I'm making a mistake, or if there's a more correct way to do something, I'm all ears :)
@@sidgar1 Cool cool :)
I don't know about "more correct" but... if it's a tenth, or a half, then it's very easy to know what someone who says "ten times less" or "twice as little", but it doesn't translate well to other numbers, or so I feel. Say, for instance, I say "it costs three times less than whatever". Does that mean a third? Or does it mean a quarter (half, then half again)? Or... whatever? It's not entirely clear and I dislike that, because very clear, unambiguous language is available to us and very simple, and we generally use it, too. You'd never hear someone trying to say "It's three times less than twice the price", they'd say "it's two thirds the price". Fractions are awesome. Don't be so blinded by multiplication that division falls by the wayside, etc.
Okay the soapbox is available to other people now, anyone want it?
Bessy clamps are pure junk for the price point just sayin what a disappointment they turned out to be quality is maybe just a hair better than Harbor Freights stuff give me a C- clamp and a wedge for edge clamping any day just sayin.
So, you bought their cheapest range?
coorpreate amaericA@@MKRM27
i'm too cheap for a wedge. i use free plastic shopping bags and my home made c clamps made from scrap yard threaded rod. must be a thousand ways to kill a cat.
if you have enough spring clamps you can use the backside to put pressure on stuff.
Activa el traductor
I always get confused by phrases like "ten times less than". I know (at least I think I know!) that it's equivalent to "one tenth of", but my brain finds the latter _much_ easier to parse than the former.
The cleats are excellent. I used them more than 30 years ago in the factory, and the owner of the factory had imported them from Italy along with the rest of the wonderful equipment. We used them to install wooden scraps on dining tables and others.
It appears that you did manage to deform the clamp casting as the cams were further apart at the end of the video than at the start
Love the bar clamp with wedge tip! Math correction: Lee Valley shows the Bessy @ $123.45. Harbor Freight 6 in bar clamp $3.49 - Bessy is 35x more expensive!
$123.45? That's the price some idiot would try to sell his luggage
Rockler bandy clamps are the fastest to use for edge banding. You do need a lot of them though.
Thats a piece of climbing gear turned inside out with a soft skin.
I recently noticed that both Bessey and Rockler sell a clamp-on third screw for f-clamps for edge clamping. For the same price, the rockler ones have nicer rubberized knobs. I see the AT Restoration channel use these occasionally and was wondering where to find them outside of Estonia … so now I know.
Thanks for the heads up. Those Rockler ones look like a good solution.
I have some of the Bessey extra screws as well. Work OK, can apply a lot of pressure.
😊
Glad to see someone finally made the pinching version of rock climbing cams. I've always dreamed of these.
you're saying at high forces the coefficient of friction changes (at high forces it slides off the workpiece) but it seems like you actually had evidence that at those high pressures it deformed the material being clamped. Maybe try with metal?
I have 48 (I counted) Bessey clamps of various sizes, and a few cheaper clamps. Where I find the most value in the Besseys is the screw. For me the worm thread screw adds a tremendous increase in usability and value over the machine thread on cheaper threads.
That beefy Acme thread sure does let you apply some force. Much better than the finer threaded clamps.
Fine pitch threads give you a lot more leverage over course threads. Twice the threads gives twice the force.
Fine pitch acme thread is ideal.
not sure you fully understand the conccept@@sidgar1
On many F-Clamps, the limiting factor is the bar getting deformed or the handle on the screw spinning free after clamping hard a few times. On expensive or cheaper ones. The threads are quite frankly never the limiting factor.
Love Marius. I think I heard you're both collaborating for the test. Can't wait to see it!
It's hard to tell for sure from the video, but is the gap between the cams when they are "at rest" bigger after the pull test than it was at the beginning? It looks like it might be from the few frames we're able to see of it.
I’m so glad that you and Marius Hornberger know each other. Over the years, you’ve both mentioned each other. I can tell there’s a lot of respect there.
the coefficient of friction of the rubber does tend to decrease at higher pressures. As I understand it, the rubber sort of oozes onto the rough surface of the other material, providing grip in addition to the regular friction that increases with normal force. So as the pressure increases, that extra grip matters less and less.
Collab with Marius!? About time, can't wait
Good video. Thank you for the information.
Love this - thank you so much for posting this test. I've never seen the F-clamp + wedge solution for edge clamping. Every day is a learning day! Thank you 🙂
Bessey is a manufacturer which produces high quality clamps. And they are very open minded. If you need a special clamp, write them... perfect for industry.
Talking about clamps, have you ever tired using / making "cam" clamps?
the video is so nice and detailed 😊
260kg is so much overkill for an edge clamp. Makes me think of the people who have cars that will go 300kmh or faster. The total abilities aren't even necessary for it to function.
Also, how many of these edge clamps would you need to work reasonably and do you really need that much clamping force for edge banding, or would some masking tape suffice?
These are like Cams used in climbing. But the ones used in climbing have a cable pull trigger to collapse the cams from the handle end. I am surprised whoever designed these did not do the same.
Would you be able to design an efficient track saw guide rail and sled to use with an ordinary circular saw? Although there are a number of videos on how to build them I think you would be able to engineer a better one.
I never seen some one using these clamps because in stead of buying them for alot of money we used packing tape it works just as good and is cheaper
I love both your and Marius' stuff. I'm very pleased to watch a collaboration of you two
10 times is a problem for me but pulling back the cams isn't a big deal
Wondering what kind of climbing cam that was
what do you need to clamp edge banding so hard for anyway
How soon until we see your superior home made wooden version?
What are the most common use cases? I would imagine that when you edge-clamp, you most often edge-clamp along the whole edge, so you would need many clamps, i.e. a cheaper solution than that.
Exactly. So you need lots. Gets expensive fast
Your sound seems to be cutting out on this video.
Jed Clampit
Awesome video
I've found painters tape to be sufficient for most edge clamping situations. Obviously not as much clamping pressure as a proper clamp though, or the wedge hack.