This is my favourite scene from the entire film, followed closely by the scene in venice where Charles describes the fact that at that time he never realised the deep philosophical roots of the Holy Catholic Faith.
I'm not Christian, but Marchmain making the sign of the cross on his deathbed was deeply moving. Great scene. Even if you're not religious, you can't deny the comfort that religion brings many people (not all), especially at death.
Not a merely a comfort. If comfort was all that mattered, better to sedate and euthanize the elderly and ill. An affirmation that life has meaning and exists beyond the physical.
Why does it impress intelligent people? For the young who think they know everything, they are not impressed. But the older we get, the more we realize that there is more to this universe than our senses reveal.
This death scene is very drawn out. When their mother died, it was hardly mentioned, and even her funeral was just a distant mirage, with no sound, and the procession simply fading into the background, as the closing credits rolled.
Well yes that is so, but the story is how the death of Lord M affected Charles's relationship with Julia and his own conversion. When Julia's mother died the impact had no relevance to Charles except his task in trying to bring Sebastian back to England. Also I guess as Lady M was a practising Catholic her death was less moving than Lord M due to his last minute contrition. Interesting point you make though!
Which those who do it’s work on earth are! In some of them, where was the compassion for children, instead of “repenting & being sorry”, priests were moved. The church is feeling those effects now as people leave it
And then, when separating from Charles, in saying “I can’t get all that stuff out of my head, the bad stuff, things only Mummy could deal with, became a girl again
Edmund Wilson, who had praised Waugh as the hope of the English novel, wrote "The last scenes are extravagantly absurd, with an absurdity that would be worthy of Waugh at his best if it were not - painful to say - meant quite seriously." - Wikipedia
so? Wilson had a number of high points as a public intellectual, but he was a desiccated fan of Freud and Marx. He also dismissed Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.
Charles was a coward, he loved sebastian and he loved julia but not once did he truly say so. The eternally uncommitted he floated through life like a fallen leaf in a autumn' breeze. Waugh was conflicted about his Catholicism. Sometimes the ultimate refuge of the no believer is total belief or surrender.
He drifted through life until, despite his loss of his own family and of Julia, he embraced God and, with God's help. did his duty as an officer, despite his own pain.
pure oversimplification it is not about the attainment of faith but rather the preservation of self. The Catholic obscenity is that we can be force fed faith. That no matter what we have the done the so called sins committed that with a precious words and sometimes none, and some arcane twisted ritual can make a difference.
12 лет назад+3
you say "The harm that religion does is more than the good it does" to be valid, such sweeping statments need substantive facts and rational arguments. you provide none, in typical bigoted fashion of embittered ignorant anti religious people. Catholicism does not ask "anyone to believe simply out of a fear of punishment", that you think it does, only indicate your ignorant prejudices & hatred of religion.
Most people reading the novel judge this scene to be the most unpersuasive of the whole book. Waugh was an excellent novelist but in my opinion he dropped his game in this scene by putting his religious motivations ahead of his writer's craft.
I realise that this scene is where Waugh, struggling with his own faith and doubt, tries to express that there is a reason for all that belief, all those people engaged in it. For me, it just shows how deep conditioning and superstition go, and how pervasive the need to believe is. The harm that religion does is more than the good it does, if it ever does do any good to anyone to believe simply out of a fear of punishment.
Grace, Conversion and Redemption for all of them.
This is my favourite scene from the entire film, followed closely by the scene in venice where Charles describes the fact that at that time he never realised the deep philosophical roots of the Holy Catholic Faith.
I'm not Christian, but Marchmain making the sign of the cross on his deathbed was deeply moving.
Great scene. Even if you're not religious, you can't deny the comfort that religion brings many people (not all), especially at death.
Not a merely a comfort. If comfort was all that mattered, better to sedate and euthanize the elderly and ill. An affirmation that life has meaning and exists beyond the physical.
A victory.
Why does it impress intelligent people? For the young who think they know everything, they are not impressed. But the older we get, the more we realize that there is more to this universe than our senses reveal.
Fear of being alone is a reality for many people
well done scene.
This death scene is very drawn out. When their mother died, it was hardly mentioned, and even her funeral was just a distant mirage, with no sound, and the procession simply fading into the background, as the closing credits rolled.
Well yes that is so, but the story is how the death of Lord M affected Charles's relationship with Julia and his own conversion. When Julia's mother died the impact had no relevance to Charles except his task in trying to bring Sebastian back to England. Also I guess as Lady M was a practising Catholic her death was less moving than Lord M due to his last minute contrition. Interesting point you make though!
Todo sigue siendo un misterio irresoluble para mí.
@duncantoms What makes you qualified to say it's solely existential? It's kind of ironic you're calling the church arrogant!
Which those who do it’s work on earth are! In some of them, where was the compassion for children, instead of “repenting & being sorry”, priests were moved. The church is feeling those effects now as people leave it
....como creyente se santigua y lo voz de fondo en off de Charles.
Lord Marchmain ha muerto.
Of course there is such a things as sin, but it is not what many think it is.
"I accept full responsibility". Julia becomes a woman with that statement.
Nope.
She became a Catholic.
She was a woman prior, and will be again after.
And then, when separating from Charles, in saying “I can’t get all that stuff out of my head, the bad stuff, things only Mummy could deal with, became a girl again
Edmund Wilson, who had praised Waugh as the hope of the English novel, wrote "The last scenes are extravagantly absurd, with an absurdity that would be worthy of Waugh at his best if it were not - painful to say - meant quite seriously." - Wikipedia
so? Wilson had a number of high points as a public intellectual, but he was a desiccated fan of Freud and Marx. He also dismissed Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.
@@marchess286 OK.
These latter parts have been very disappointing.
Couple of good speeches, mind.
Charles was a coward, he loved sebastian and he loved
julia but not once did he truly say so. The eternally uncommitted
he floated through life like a fallen leaf in a autumn' breeze.
Waugh was conflicted about his Catholicism. Sometimes
the ultimate refuge of the no believer is total belief or
surrender.
He drifted through life until, despite his loss of his own family and of Julia, he embraced God and, with God's help. did his duty as an officer, despite his own pain.
pure oversimplification it is not about the attainment of faith
but rather the preservation of self. The Catholic obscenity
is that we can be force fed faith. That no matter what we have
the done the so called sins committed that with a precious
words and sometimes none, and some arcane twisted ritual
can make a difference.
you say "The harm that religion does is more than the good it does"
to be valid, such sweeping statments need substantive facts and rational arguments. you provide none, in typical bigoted fashion of embittered ignorant anti religious people.
Catholicism does not ask "anyone to believe simply out of a fear of punishment", that you think it does, only indicate your ignorant prejudices & hatred of religion.
Most people reading the novel judge this scene to be the most unpersuasive of the whole book. Waugh was an excellent novelist but in my opinion he dropped his game in this scene by putting his religious motivations ahead of his writer's craft.
I realise that this scene is where Waugh, struggling with his own faith and doubt, tries to express that there is a reason for all that belief, all those people engaged in it. For me, it just shows how deep conditioning and superstition go, and how pervasive the need to believe is. The harm that religion does is more than the good it does, if it ever does do any good to anyone to believe simply out of a fear of punishment.
Vatican II was supposed to take care of that.
I think many people would say the “good” that it does is merely a comfort for their own uncertainty