@@rnrtruestories hey sid think about (kittie) also early 2000s hit brackish blew up radio and then they faded. I didnt even know they were still playing till I looked them up. Cant wait for the new vid, be safe and Godspeed brother.
Killing Joke claiming they never heard The Damned's song is just as absurd as Nirvana allegedly claiming they never heard Killing Joke's song. Both The Damned and Killing Joke are two of the most influential punk/post-punk/goth bands of all time and they frequented many of the same circles.
@@leoguzman1851 Metallica covered Killing Joke "The Wait" on the Garage Days EP . Killing Joke just opened for Tool on the Fear Innoculum tour because Tool loves them. They were well known in the 80s punk circuit. Nirvana most likely were huge fans.
An up and coming band in the 80's asked David Lee Roth when will we know our band has made it. Without hesitating, DLR said " When you can spell the word "subpoena" without thinking about it, that's when you have made it. "
Ironic in light of VH's many cover songs through their careers... Randy Rhoads didnt play covers by choice, oz made him play Paranoid and Children of the grave for encores.
That's very true. Broke musicians don't get sued, and even if they got sued they are "judgement proof". I attended a presentation from a music lawyer. The only impression I got from his job was was "my job is to convince a judge that someone else needs to give us money". Anything else was incidental.
Sometimes i think we maybe hear a song and forget about it. Maybe it was famous maybe it wasn't. As a musician you're being influenced all the time by music. Could be on a conscious or subconscious level.
@Clandestine Council not looking fir a big debate there were digital effects racks, MIDI had been around for decade any quality produced albums had some digital fingerprint.
@Clandestine Council Something else that I did think about Is that as time went on more and more Analog tubes were imported from China to be put an American sound devices. And they were pretty crappy
When I saw Killing Joke at the House of Blues in Hollywood, Jazz Coleman explained how he got a Christmas card from Kurt begging him not to sue…A decade later, Dave Grohl paid the “debt” by joyously agreeing to play on a Killing Joke album.
I thought the story was that he was supposed to have sent the card before he wrote Come As You Are, thus implying he was already a fan of the band, and thus implicating him in a forgery? Whereas what you're saying is that he actually wrote the card after Come As You Are was written. So surely your story somewhat disproves the forgery narrative?
Most old punk rockers like myself absolutely love Killing Joke and The Damned . Of course Nirvana's heard them but that's rock n roll . Always has been
@@curly_wyn Na .. It's a simple riff .. and it's pretty obvious Killing Joke wasn't the first to do it ... besides... sometimes songwriters don't even intentionally do it .. music gets imbedded into people's subconscious and often bits and pieces are inadvertently nicked ... it happens, .. Killing Joke obviously knew it wasn't worth the battle. Those guys were total geniuses by the way ... much more interesting than Nirvana ever was. Still .. Those two songs really are completely different to my ears ... The riff is the same, .. but who gives a shit really.
You know the situation is fucked up when a band is all, "We are totally going to sue you for ripping us off. However, if we do that, we'll get sued for ripping someone else off." LMFAO. That's classic!
Whether they know it or not music is always being borrowing or taking inspirations whether it be beats rhythm tempos or in this case guitar rifts into someone else's work whether he or she knows it or not
0:03 "'Come as You Are' would be the final top 40 hit for Nirvana's career." Huh? Nirvana had 11 top 10 hits (including 5 at #1), and 8 of those peaked after "Come as You Are", the most recent being "You Know You're Right" which hit #1 on 10/25/02.
thank you for saving me all that typing. these are the same people who say stupid crap like nirvana only got famous because he died... learning history is hard....
Bands rip off other bands all the time. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes unintentionally. I’ve “written” songs before thinking, wow, this is great! Then a couple days later I’ll hear a song that’s been public for years and I’m like, oh shit. My song was just me subconsciously regurgitating another song I’ve heard many times in the past.
And video game composers uses music from other band. For instance ZUN used Iron Maiden's The Trooper for Sakuya's theme Flowering Night which was in Touhou 9. Hell Konami used Riding On The Wind by Judas Priest in Biker Mice For Mars 1993 and Goemon 3.
Kurt himself admitted it he was afraid to release "Come as You Are" as a single because of the similarities with Killing Joke's "Eighties". The video says that! The question is unnecessary.
But did he realize the similarity before or after writing the track? I've literally finished songs, only the hear a similarity to some song I've heard before, but didn't remember.
Him being scared of being accused of something does not mean he is guilty of that thing. The question is only unnecessary in that the two tracks really don't sound that alike. They have a completely different feel to them and aren't even the same notes. Garden of Delight's 22 Faces is much more similar to KJ's Eighties.
@Bryan My point was, all the others sound more similar to each other than CAYA sounds to any of them. You can quite comfortably sing the word 'eighties' over both 22 Faces and Life Goes On as if it were the same track as Eighties. You can't do that with Come As You Are. Similar, possibly heavily influenced by, but I wouldn't say ripped off, at least not in the same way Eighties was ripped from Life Goes On
@Bryan and as the video demonstrated there are no shortage of songs that use similar chord progressions. btw come as you are and killing joke do actually have slightly different arrangements you can hear the different notes if you actually listen to it. While the riff is iconic, the singing is really where the song gets it's life. just like sweet child o mine by guns and roses. you will always recognize that opening riff but it's not the lifeblood of the song. look at ice ice baby...there was a long and very expensive court battle brewing when they just decided to settle out of court. now sampling is completely acceptable...in that light vanilla ice kind of got screwed. Puff daddy made an entire career off of doing exactly what vanilla ice got in trouble for...that's kind of bullshit.
Funniest thing is even if it's true it's shouldn't be a question because it doesn't matter he made an entirely different piece oh wow you took some riffs like every song doesn't include some elemen of it. It's innovative not invention there are no new riffs really just innovative with what you mix em with.
I thought the Garden of Delight song sounded even closer. That being said, Killing Joke clearly didn't want to sue because they knew they were vulnerable. More often than not, I think it's unintentional. I remember one time trying to write a song and a riff kept going through my head. When I finally played it, I realized it was "Touch Me, I'm Sick." No harm, no foul, because I scrapped the song and probably wouldn't have done anything with it, anyway, but it's probably easier to do by accident if it's band that you like but not one you follow as closely.
And I think Mudhoney wrote Touch me I'm sick consciously knowing it was similar to the Yardbirds "happenings ten years time ago" and the Sonics "the witch."
It may be that the Equals influenced the Damned and so on...not unlikely as The Damned covered Love's "Alone Again..." and it is the same notes in the same time signature...one thing...leads to another.
Here is the list I have so far: Nirvana - Come As You Are Killing Joke - Eighties The Damned - Life Goes On Sigur Ros - Olsen Olsen The Birthday Massacre - Remember Me The Equals - Baby Come Back Bauhaus - Hollow Hills Garden Of Delight - 22 Faces Seether - Got It Made
It’s like comparing every song that incorporates the 12 bar blues... if we start intentionally looking, it’s a rabbit hole you’ll never come out of. I didn’t realise it was such a popular slightly altered riff used in so many songs mentioned. Having said that, I don’t think it could be considered as outright plagiarism.
That's not the point. The point is: if you are in a small band, you get destroyed by law suits. If you were NIRVANA, you could pretty much rip off whatever you liked, because no one would dare taking the band to court, given their huge popularity, and hence, financial power. This pretty much destroys the hippie, fluffy duffy, power to the people, image of Nirvana and Kurt Cobain.
this reminds me of the Olivia Rodrigo/Paramore discourse happening now. I'd bet 99% of artists don't do this with malicious intention, it just happens, because music is art, and art is always influenced by other art.
@@gene8172 that is the mindset that gets art locked up to rot instead of being introduced in new forms to younger audiences. copyright law especially, in the US, is absurdly long (70 years?! Patents are only 20). check out Tom Scott's video on copyright: ruclips.net/video/1Jwo5qc78QU/видео.html and Adam Neely's video on whether Rodrigo stole from Paramore: ruclips.net/video/qX7a2p5_JsM/видео.html
@@blue_light_bot it’s not a “new” artists job or Perogative to “introduce” art to a younger audience. The new artist’s job is to create new art-something different than the old. If someone wants to use a portion of an existing copyrighted song, then give credit where credit is due and be prepared to pay if asked to do so. The old artists used their creative talents to create something new, and there is no reason for a new artist with equal talent to do the same. I’ve heard all the arguments. Make something new and give credit where credit is due. I’m okay with copyrights being as long as they are, but think patents should be longer, actually.
@@gene8172 You realize there are only a certain number of chords, right? There aren't an unlimited amount of options when it comes to writing guitar riffs, so to claim anything that sounds similar, no matter how vague the similarity is, is plagiarism and theft is absurd. Unless it's a carbon copy of the original (which is probably heavily inspired by something that sounds similar itself), it's not theft. Inspiration is not theft. Art is built upon other art. Art isn't some singular entity that exists in a vacuum.
They're audibly similar, but it's hardly a unique sound, as this video shows. The complete songs are pretty different (both excellent tracks) and I don't think the intent was to rip anyone off, really. The similarities between the Killing Joke riff and The Damned's track are probably more striking.
I was thinking the same thing, that Killing Joke and the Damned sounded more similar. The tempo on those songs are just different than 'Come as you are'. Different energy.
@Corby Dipsen Also, I agree the song by the Equals at 3:30 isn't even close to the same. However, nobody in this comments thread mentioned that song, so WTF are you talking about? You're mad at me that I agreed with the comment, but then talk about the random 3rd song, and tell me to shut up? Are you on your meds?
Nice. More Killing Joke & The Equals stories, please! "Come As You Are" _sounds_ more like The Damned song (and moreso "So. Central Rain", to my ear) but, really, those variations of an Open E/A string riff came from the Goth scene, in general. Killing Joke just happened to do it better & more notably than anyone else up to that point. It's the kind of thing beginner guitarists come up with. Geordie's riff is more complex & original (his unused riffs are better than most bands' hits) but they're all in the lineage of basic Post-Punk "guitar theory".
Eighties sounds less like Come As You Are than the other songs. I don't know if there's a Killing joke story worth a video in this chanel, but they were/are a killer band.
@@davidtingley9978 they still are. It's not as bad as Metallica covering their song "The Wait" and crediting it to the Misfits on the Garage Days EP, lol.
Who cares. There's a Quote that i wrote if someone does it better then leave it be. I know Jimi Hendrix had permission to blow Bob Dillon outta the water with ' All Along The Watchtower ' Now What !
More Killing Joke please. I love them. Plus they're still relevant today in their 60's. And other than the late, great Paul Raven, they are all still alive.
@@ilyas_elouchihi I think being underrated is a good thing. It means you keep trying, stay hungry, and appreciate the fans you do have. Plus if a band isn't mainstream it feels like they are YOUR band. And if you can turn someone you know onto them, mission accomplished. I do wish Geordie Walker was appreciated more when it comes to guitarist. He should be mentioned along with Johnny Marr, Keith Levene, and Billy Duffy. And Michael Gira is a visionary.
Wow this is super interesting, Im a fairly big Killing Joke fan since 1984 and I knew of the Come as You are thing. Nirvana all but admitted it, you really can't imagine Kurt standing toe to toe with Jaz Coleman and arguing the toss. Have you seen Jaz Coleman he's one scray Mother! There have been many discussions about it over the years, I seem to recall Jaz saying "look the guys dead, forget it I've moved on" or words to that effect. But I didn't know about the similarity to the Equals track, you can definitely hear it, intentional or not. I guess it just goes to prove what a great riff it is.
I love Killing Joke’s Eighties, But I don’t care if Nirvana ripped off it or Life goes on by The Damned, come as you are is a classic by its own right too. And the connection with the Killing Joke and The Damned songs makes me appreciate it even more.
@@beeragainsthumanity1420 Of course Killing Joke had heard of The Damned, doesn't necessarily mean they'd heard of a little known album track by them though.
Kurt knew it and admitted it. Just like More Than A Feeling and Louie Louie with Teen Spirit. I've written songs that I didn't realize I was channeling from some subconscious place. Then realized it later..."son of a BITCH."
Don't you hate it when that happens? I have a song "Regret" that has a chorus similar to The Lawrence Arms "Paradise Shitty". It was an accident but seems blatant. I kept it anyway. I figure if I get sued I could really use the publicity.
@@rosssmith8481 its wasnt an insult im saying it to show how easy it is to discover the riff. copyrighting it would be dumb because its easy to come up organically
Come as you are, while very similar to the other “rips” atleast has a different tempo and note structure then the others. eighties sounds more blatantly ripped off from life goes on.
I found the Killing Joke song a couple of months ago on Spotify when looking for new tunes (well new to me) and I was immediately like, Kurt Cobain must have listened to this before he made Come As You Are. There are huge similarities indeed, bar the earliest example you gave, which is a very generic riff for the time and I wouldn't call it similar personally.
He took almost identical notes and did something completely different with them. As long as the songs feel and sound different, they are. Its the opposite effect as what Greta Van Fleet does.
Devo took the riff of the song Oh, Pretty Woman by Roy Orbison for their song Whip It! All that they did was speed up the beat a little bit and then added a drum snare twice. Phil Collins used the opening tempo and pitch for Prince's song 1999 for his song Sussudio. People borrow from other people all of the time. Musicians and singers are inspired by other musical artists and remember, every popular song that people like over the last 40 + years only sold well because they all pretty much basically have exactly the same four chords no matter what the song. So it's also a subconscious, subliminal, psychosomatic reaction type of thing just as well as a popularity thing.
and even if they werent inspired/ never heard of other bands there is only 12 notes in bar and literally houndreds of thousends of songs. at some point some riffs will resemble others, so what? come as you are may have similar riff to eightis , but sounds nothing alike as a song
In the pre-rock n roll Delta blues scene of the 1930s guys 'borrowed' each others' material so frequently it can be hard to ascertain who even wrote some standards in the first place. There's a good chapter about this in John Leland's Hip: A History.
Kurt was aware it sounded like "Eighties", come on! The case with Devo is that Gerald V. Casale himself acknowledged that in public. Phil Collins did not denied the similarity, too, and he said he listened to "1999" frequently while on tour. That's the difference! If the artist wants to sue them or not, it's their decision. Kurt was aware and he chose not to say anything, it was nothing unconscious.
@@christophermerlot3366 You know there's a "blues scale" in music to correctly justify your wrong comparison? There's not a "Killing Joke scale" because the entire Delta Blues era is a landmark in music History, it influenced everyone. It's not just a band and a riff. Your sense of proportion is way out of it, it diminishes a period of music that changed the world.
All musicians get inspiration from previous musicians that's the way it is get over it guys Killing Joke loved the Damned Nirvana loved Killing Joke and on and on......
Im also a musician and songwriter and you gotta be careful to what you listen to before you go into a writing session, recording session, or jam with your band. You can end up writing a song so similar to what you just heard by accident. Its hilarious that even Killing Joke ripped off the guitar part and still blamed Nirvana. Thats why copyright can be so silly at times because in contemporary music, there is a finite set of chords. Interesting that the effects to this riff are the same throughout each version though! Lots of reverb and maybe a little phaser or chorus effect to add to the riff's gloominess. Great video as always! Keep on rockin in the free world and doo doddley doo doo...
Your absolutely right , if you writing a song and have to worry the whole time that you've been influenced by other music . You may as well give up do sport where you'll be praised for copying someone else's signature move .
This riff was all over the eighties. We used to play versions of it all the time. Never heard of any of these bands, apart from Nirvana, before this video. The "box riff" is just a natural shape that is half the music kids would make up.
Its a very simple riff so its understandable that so many bands have made songs with a similar one but not exactly the same. I think both songs are great though and all the other songs with this similar riff. Its cool that the riff is like the torch you pass on.
As a musician sometimes you play/record something similar to what you have heard at some point, but usually not consciously. Someone may point it out to you at a later date, and you go, ya, it does sound like that. Rock has only so many riffs. Let's called it "Influenced by".
I think before Kurt everbody played that riff wrong. The come as you are riff has a start, a middle section and an end. It sounds complete, melodic and great. Nobody played it this way before.
Excelent video! Didn t about The Damned song and the other goth band and 60s group. Only the Killing Joke song , huge fan of them. Please post more of this type of material. It s awesome.
Cobain admitted to stealing the riff. He didn’t expect it to be some huge hit when he wrote it. Their first album sold less than 5000 copies. Had nevermind sold as expected, the similarities wouldnt have been an issue.
@@Deaf_Notes The melody is the same and that is what wins lawsuits. Tom Petty got the rights of a huge song recently because the melody was the same as I wont back down
He didn't admit that, he said that he was afraid they sounded similar. Obviously from that you can infer that he was worried that people would accuse him of that. That doesn't mean he directly ripped it off. Personally I think 'Come As You Are' sounds distinct and unique and it's actually Garden of Delight's '22 Faces' and KJ's 'Eighties' that sound identical to each other. That being said, songs will always sound like other songs as there's only a finite amount of pleasing note arrangements available. And artists will always emulate their influences. Same in every other industry
I saw them in Melbourne on that Australian tour. It was sad, Kurt was obviously husked out, hardly moving from the mic, a fan blasting him in the face. The Bleach songs were the only ones they played with any passion.
As a musician, I know that sometimes subconsciously you might really like a song and or have it in your mind and when you, yourself are writing a song. The influence pops up unintentionally. I do find it funny tho and maybe too much of a coincidence that both songs have an overuse of the flanger effect lol. Oh well. Art influences art and I don't think Kurt did it with the purpose of "ripping someone off".
People take riffs from each other. This goes all the way back to the Beatles. I don't fault Nirvana for doing what essentially every rock band has ever done
I saw the guitarist from Killing Joke at the time and he was incredibly angry. He said something about sneaking into Kurt's home, blowing his head off with a shotgun and making it look like suicide but Courtney Love beat him to it.
Come As You Are is so much more than that killing joke tune... It's night and day. Yeah, if you aren't allowed to play the same two notes in entirely different songs, then good night music, then nobody can release a song again.
Cobain's vocal melody was light years beyond the vocal melodies that accompanied the other songs. The vocal melody on top of the riff was what set Come As You Are apart. He was definitely influenced by those riffs though. It's a grey area.
Exactly. The main riff is essentially just a chord change. The melody is a much more distinctive element that would be grounds for claiming somebody copied something.
Whining, screaming and not being able to sing are not called vocals nor melodies especially not singing. Whoever listens to this garbage should have a surgery or hearing aid.
@@cago5512 Kurt vocals is very soulful, feels real like he meant it, angry and full of energy, suited for his style of rebellious music. Kurt vocals is so punk, that is feels more true punk than the real punk music like Sex Pistols vocals. And Nirvana is a very rare bands that performing live is much better than on the records. That's why many tries to cover Nirvana and failed miserably. I prefer Kurt than all others singer that wrote songs just for the sake of making money, fake.
Great song, regardless of whether or not they "ripped off" the riff. I've long since come to the conclusion that I don't care how "original" a piece of music is -- if I like it, then that's that, and nobody can tell me otherwise.
I don't think there's any question Nirvana drew inspiration from the Killing Joke riff.. it's not a full blown rip off, tho, it's an homage. It's ridiculous and petty they whined about it, and WAY more so after I'm now hearing that Damned riff. The Killing Joke guitar line is actually way closer to the Damned line than Nirvana's to Killing Joke's.
Did you listened Eighties? This song is wonderful, even better than come as you are! I love come as you are, but Eighties was “on another level” already
KJ was unfamiliar with the track, not the band. It's clearly stated in the video. This is prior to the internet, it's entirely possible that KJ wasn't paying attention to The Damned's Pop lp.
As a musician that writes,. I'll say this...There is nothing new under the sun,. every song,. riff, or lyric is inspired by something or someone else. I hear similarities in everything from commercial jingles, to the latest pop tunes,. If you walk this Earth long enough,. You will see repetition in nearly everything........
Especially because most music is actually really simplistic, repetitive and rigid in it's structure... And it's one of the main reasons I dig classical, jazz and progressive music.
Most bands don't make much money, so when they see a bigger band making a fortune from an inspiration/rip-off of their music, I bet it hurts a lot. I would personally feel sick if someone made lots of money off their creations that were extremely similar to my creations that came first.
I think the bands using it consciously should state that it is a citation or homage, not the other band suddenly finding out. Or just be like Noel Gallagher, "I ripped off, so what" kind of attitude, it sounds more like a homage than trying to hide it and you can sue him at the same time lol
The Equals' and Nirvana's songs don't sound anything like the other 3. Killing Joke plaged The Damned and Garden of Delight plaged KJ; KJ's song is the best of the 3. Side note--The Equals' guitarist, Eddy Grant, later had the huge 80s hit "Electric Avenue."
I've been a killing joke fan since my early teens the 80's , but I failed to pick up on the similarity . Kurt made something completely different out of it so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt .
Furthermore, Killing Joke claiming they never heard The Damned's song is just as absurd as Nirvana allegedly claiming they never heard Killing Joke's song. Both The Damned and Killing Joke are two of the most influential punk/post-punk/goth bands of all time and they frequented many of the same circles.
@@willnill7946 The guitar riff has one different note , the tempo is not the same . And the melody of the singing is completely different , and eighties is a way better song .
Yeah but the difference is that Cobain lashed out at people accusing them of ripping others off over the years. Let’s all feel comfortable with the fact that a) liking an artists work is OK but it doesn’t mean they are good people. And B) cobain was a super talented pretentious prick.
I've been writing music for about 4 years and I remember being extremely worried early on about the whole "ripping off" thing, everytime I wrote something I used to squeeze my brain to make sure I wasn't just playing something I overheard previously... thank god I moved away from that... I've come to a point where I don't give a shit about it anymore for the simple reason that basically every single chord progression and combined arrangement of guitar riffs/licks, vocal harmonies and time signatures have been wrote some way or another. At least this goes for the simple songwriting that's required for alt rock (the genre I mostly play), you can still find unexplored territories in jazz and more technical genres, but at what cost? For a songwriter like me that focuses on catchy 4/4 stuff it would make no sense to get technical and it's not my thing... So all this to say that people should not take this whole "ripping off" so strictly... unless the two songs are identical under every aspect (riff, vocal harmony, chord progression) or the artist intentionally stole an entire arrangement section it's entirely possible that it was a casual coincidence and you should not feel guilty with yourself because of it... there are only so many chord progressions and harmonies, it's nearly impossible to create a new one, especially if you keep your riffs simple like Kurt did with Come as you are... This said and having heard life goes on and eighties I hear very little similarities between one another since they all evolve into different progressions and have different vocal harmonies and styles... I can totally get around the idea that none of them heard eachother and it was coincidence
It's almost like you can't copyright a chord progression. It's almost like western music follows a format. It's almost like half the songs are Pachelbel.
Many rip off. They mostly rip off classical or Christian gospel. Beatles riped off the Arioso song by Boch (a Lutheran) when they wrote Hey Jude. Beatles just added an extra note at intro melody. Guns n roses riped off the 1975 Christian rock song Watergrave by Dogwood when they done riffs to Paradise City. On vocal melody , Bananarama riped off City Limits -Lost In His Love song (featuring another Christian ,Joe English from Wings) when they done Cruel Summer 3 years latter. Etc. Michael Omartain (a Christian who was featured on Steely Dans Aja song) was a singer,player n producer who gave Christopher Cross his debute sound. It was Michaels ideas& not Cross. Hear his jamming songs from 70s. Jeremiah etc. Alive n well. Blows Pink Floyd away!
@@andrepereira744 Annalisa sounds nothing like RFUS, other than the drum beat is similar. The chord progression from On the Streets does sound a lot like the New Wave version of Polly, so that's a point, but they were a tiny Oi band, so would Kurt have ever heard them? Possibly, but I'm not convinced. The initial riff from Don't Walk Away sounds a bit like Been a Son, but not exactly the same. Not sure there's enough there tbh
@@andrepereira744 There's plenty of songs by plenty of artists that sound a bit like other songs. It's impossible to be 100% original, that's not how life works. You say there's many more so name them..
@@ringtail1401 100% original? Maybe not, but thats no reason to be 50% or less original. If you choose to write songs with 1 or 2, 3 diferent parts max, that will happen for sure. Look at Mastodon or Meshuggah for example. 100% original? Maybe not, but close enough. The thing is, Cobain is not that original genius most people portray. As for more songs, do yourself your homework.
Here's our look at the history behind the song 'Smells Like Teen Spirit.' ruclips.net/video/eV8dGqQY_8o/видео.html
@@sstaners1234 next week…longest video I’ve ever done and another highly requested band coming next week
@@rnrtruestories hey sid think about (kittie) also early 2000s hit brackish blew up radio and then they faded. I didnt even know they were still playing till I looked them up. Cant wait for the new vid, be safe and Godspeed brother.
Suggestion: 'Countess Bathory' by Venom 😉
@@rnrtruestories It’s just a musical coincidence with Come as you are and the other’s before and after.
Can’t believe it’s already 30 years
Even Mozart used that riff. He called it “Cometh as you Appear”
😂😂😂
I dig that number.
🤟🤟🤟🤣🤣🤣🤣
lol
Cometh As Thou Appear is my favorite Mozart song.
Killing Joke claiming they never heard The Damned's song is just as absurd as Nirvana allegedly claiming they never heard Killing Joke's song.
Both The Damned and Killing Joke are two of the most influential punk/post-punk/goth bands of all time and they frequented many of the same circles.
Not many consider The Damned as pioneers as you have. Sure some do but.....
I have heard of killing joke , but i have never lisent to them ( big difference) but i have heard and listen to nirvena ….see? Two different things
All I got to say is Peter Steele.
@chris williams very true.
@@leoguzman1851 Metallica covered Killing Joke "The Wait" on the Garage Days EP . Killing Joke just opened for Tool on the Fear Innoculum tour because Tool loves them. They were well known in the 80s punk circuit. Nirvana most likely were huge fans.
An up and coming band in the 80's asked David Lee Roth when will we know our band has made it. Without hesitating, DLR said " When you can spell the word "subpoena" without thinking about it, that's when you have made it. "
That's some gangsta ass shit
Ironic in light of VH's many cover songs through their careers... Randy Rhoads didnt play covers by choice, oz made him play Paranoid and Children of the grave for encores.
Good old uncle Dave!
Dave is always good for a quote...
That's very true. Broke musicians don't get sued, and even if they got sued they are "judgement proof". I attended a presentation from a music lawyer. The only impression I got from his job was was "my job is to convince a judge that someone else needs to give us money". Anything else was incidental.
Holy shit, it's almost as if every guitarist ever has probably played something very similar by accident.
Perfectly put. It's so easy to play you could stumble upon it and be like "wow I wrote the most catchy thing EVER!"
I managed to write seasons in the abyss as a kid in the very same way.
@@cafesociety8525 There's a hungarian musician - when he was a kid, he thought he invented the G-maj chord :D
@@ficergo3759 bless his little soul.
Sometimes i think we maybe hear a song and forget about it. Maybe it was famous maybe it wasn't. As a musician you're being influenced all the time by music. Could be on a conscious or subconscious level.
The further you go back the better the guitar tone sounds lmao
Analoge gear.
@Clandestine Council DATs ADATs Digital mixing board etc
@Clandestine Council not looking fir a big debate there were digital effects racks, MIDI had been around for decade any quality produced albums had some digital fingerprint.
@Clandestine Council Something else that I did think about Is that as time went on more and more Analog tubes were imported from China to be put an American sound devices. And they were pretty crappy
Nirvana's tone is the best out of these examples, anyone who say's otherwise is just deaf or in denial. P.d. I Hate nirvana.
When I saw Killing Joke at the House of Blues in Hollywood, Jazz Coleman explained how he got a Christmas card from Kurt begging him not to sue…A decade later, Dave Grohl paid the “debt” by joyously agreeing to play on a Killing Joke album.
It's kind of a beautiful coming full circle sort of thing. It's amazing how things that mattered 10 years earlier simply didn't anymore.
Dave Grohl delivered some of his best drumming on that album, too. That groove on Death And Resurrection Show is sick.
Damn, Grohl is a helluva good friend.
And is one amazing album. Every freakin' track.
I thought the story was that he was supposed to have sent the card before he wrote Come As You Are, thus implying he was already a fan of the band, and thus implicating him in a forgery? Whereas what you're saying is that he actually wrote the card after Come As You Are was written. So surely your story somewhat disproves the forgery narrative?
Most old punk rockers like myself absolutely love Killing Joke and The Damned . Of course Nirvana's heard them but that's rock n roll . Always has been
Yeah, but if you're more like PUNK music, try listening to HATEBREED SWORN ENEMY, TERROR, MISFITS & there's a lot more in the punk METAL era!!
And it’s always been theft.
Always has been what? Blatant plagiarism?
@@curly_wyn Na .. It's a simple riff .. and it's pretty obvious Killing Joke wasn't the first to do it ... besides... sometimes songwriters don't even intentionally do it .. music gets imbedded into people's subconscious and often bits and pieces are inadvertently nicked ... it happens, .. Killing Joke obviously knew it wasn't worth the battle. Those guys were total geniuses by the way ... much more interesting than Nirvana ever was. Still .. Those two songs really are completely different to my ears ... The riff is the same, .. but who gives a shit really.
Yep. Huge fan of KJ since the 80s. Definitely inspired if not copied, but this does happen a lot more than you think.
You know the situation is fucked up when a band is all, "We are totally going to sue you for ripping us off. However, if we do that, we'll get sued for ripping someone else off." LMFAO. That's classic!
Whether they know it or not music is always being borrowing or taking inspirations whether it be beats rhythm tempos or in this case guitar rifts into someone else's work whether he or she knows it or not
This literally happened with Radiohead and Lana Del Rey.
Sueing is expensive, just because they didn't doesn't prove they had no case.
@@TaxEvader420 Joke had no case.
The Damned on the other hand . . .
That Killing Joke album that Dave Grohl played on is a MONSTER. One of their very best.
Check out Five Eyes LP by Shihad. Jaz produced it/basically wrote the music. Super riff heavy like the KJ album.
0:03 "'Come as You Are' would be the final top 40 hit for Nirvana's career." Huh? Nirvana had 11 top 10 hits (including 5 at #1), and 8 of those peaked after "Come as You Are", the most recent being "You Know You're Right" which hit #1 on 10/25/02.
Came here to say this!
Maybe he meant to say on nevermind
thank you for saving me all that typing. these are the same people who say stupid crap like nirvana only got famous because he died... learning history is hard....
THANK YOU
This dude always drops some mistakes , most likely to generate comments such as this ……🤔🤷♂️
Bands rip off other bands all the time. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes unintentionally. I’ve “written” songs before thinking, wow, this is great! Then a couple days later I’ll hear a song that’s been public for years and I’m like, oh shit. My song was just me subconsciously regurgitating another song I’ve heard many times in the past.
And video game composers uses music from other band. For instance ZUN used Iron Maiden's The Trooper for Sakuya's theme Flowering Night which was in Touhou 9. Hell Konami used Riding On The Wind by Judas Priest in Biker Mice For Mars 1993 and Goemon 3.
@@NealCamerlengo good point
Why not? I love plagerism. A bit of music done differently.
It’s ….intentional. ‘Usually’ 🧐
Kurt himself admitted it he was afraid to release "Come as You Are" as a single because of the similarities with Killing Joke's "Eighties". The video says that! The question is unnecessary.
But did he realize the similarity before or after writing the track? I've literally finished songs, only the hear a similarity to some song I've heard before, but didn't remember.
Him being scared of being accused of something does not mean he is guilty of that thing. The question is only unnecessary in that the two tracks really don't sound that alike. They have a completely different feel to them and aren't even the same notes. Garden of Delight's 22 Faces is much more similar to KJ's Eighties.
@Bryan My point was, all the others sound more similar to each other than CAYA sounds to any of them.
You can quite comfortably sing the word 'eighties' over both 22 Faces and Life Goes On as if it were the same track as Eighties. You can't do that with Come As You Are.
Similar, possibly heavily influenced by, but I wouldn't say ripped off, at least not in the same way Eighties was ripped from Life Goes On
@Bryan and as the video demonstrated there are no shortage of songs that use similar chord progressions. btw come as you are and killing joke do actually have slightly different arrangements you can hear the different notes if you actually listen to it. While the riff is iconic, the singing is really where the song gets it's life.
just like sweet child o mine by guns and roses. you will always recognize that opening riff but it's not the lifeblood of the song.
look at ice ice baby...there was a long and very expensive court battle brewing when they just decided to settle out of court. now sampling is completely acceptable...in that light vanilla ice kind of got screwed. Puff daddy made an entire career off of doing exactly what vanilla ice got in trouble for...that's kind of bullshit.
Funniest thing is even if it's true it's shouldn't be a question because it doesn't matter he made an entirely different piece oh wow you took some riffs like every song doesn't include some elemen of it. It's innovative not invention there are no new riffs really just innovative with what you mix em with.
damn. this is like the spiderman pointing meme of songs.
🤣
Nailed it
Spot on lmfao
A multi verse of the same 7 notes
💀
I thought the Garden of Delight song sounded even closer. That being said, Killing Joke clearly didn't want to sue because they knew they were vulnerable. More often than not, I think it's unintentional. I remember one time trying to write a song and a riff kept going through my head. When I finally played it, I realized it was "Touch Me, I'm Sick." No harm, no foul, because I scrapped the song and probably wouldn't have done anything with it, anyway, but it's probably easier to do by accident if it's band that you like but not one you follow as closely.
And I think Mudhoney wrote Touch me I'm sick consciously knowing it was similar to the Yardbirds "happenings ten years time ago" and the Sonics "the witch."
Dude, I've written so many songs and had to change the sound just because of that reason. It pisses me off. Lol
@@timbrown1834 For sure it was Mudhoney, plus awesome cover by S.Youth.
After hearing the Garden of delight song it reminded me of Martha And The Muffins "Echo Beach" that was 1980
Nirvana's Rape Me sounds awfully similar to Mudhoney's Need.
Some of those songs are more similar than others. Nirvana, Killing Joke and The Damn'd but The Equals is a bit of a stretch.
I was thinking the same thing.
For the Damns life goes on, it not really the same riff. It's more like the guitar is tuned exactly the same.
It may be that the Equals influenced the Damned and so on...not unlikely as The Damned covered Love's "Alone Again..." and it is the same notes in the same time signature...one thing...leads to another.
Here is the list I have so far:
Nirvana - Come As You Are
Killing Joke - Eighties
The Damned - Life Goes On
Sigur Ros - Olsen Olsen
The Birthday Massacre - Remember Me
The Equals - Baby Come Back
Bauhaus - Hollow Hills
Garden Of Delight - 22 Faces
Seether - Got It Made
It’s like comparing every song that incorporates the 12 bar blues... if we start intentionally looking, it’s a rabbit hole you’ll never come out of.
I didn’t realise it was such a popular slightly altered riff used in so many songs mentioned.
Having said that, I don’t think it could be considered as outright plagiarism.
Well it's like the Gin Blossoms always said
"Hey Jealousy"😬
@@juicepick7131 🤣🤣🤣
That's not the point. The point is: if you are in a small band, you get destroyed by law suits. If you were NIRVANA, you could pretty much rip off whatever you liked, because no one would dare taking the band to court, given their huge popularity, and hence, financial power. This pretty much destroys the hippie, fluffy duffy, power to the people, image of Nirvana and Kurt Cobain.
Kurt himself admitted they were similar. He used ONE specifically song as reference, not an entire music gender. Your logic does not make sense.
But it’s different because Kurt himself said it sounded similar so I’m going to guess he got inspiration from the song
this reminds me of the Olivia Rodrigo/Paramore discourse happening now. I'd bet 99% of artists don't do this with malicious intention, it just happens, because music is art, and art is always influenced by other art.
It’s plagiarism and theft. Come up with something original or give credit where credit is earned and due.
@@gene8172 that is the mindset that gets art locked up to rot instead of being introduced in new forms to younger audiences. copyright law especially, in the US, is absurdly long (70 years?! Patents are only 20).
check out Tom Scott's video on copyright: ruclips.net/video/1Jwo5qc78QU/видео.html
and Adam Neely's video on whether Rodrigo stole from Paramore: ruclips.net/video/qX7a2p5_JsM/видео.html
@@blue_light_bot it’s not a “new” artists job or Perogative to “introduce” art to a younger audience. The new artist’s job is to create new art-something different than the old. If someone wants to use a portion of an existing copyrighted song, then give credit where credit is due and be prepared to pay if asked to do so. The old artists used their creative talents to create something new, and there is no reason for a new artist with equal talent to do the same. I’ve heard all the arguments. Make something new and give credit where credit is due. I’m okay with copyrights being as long as they are, but think patents should be longer, actually.
@@blue_light_bot point is moot, as Olivia added Paramore, and others, to her songs.
@@gene8172 You realize there are only a certain number of chords, right? There aren't an unlimited amount of options when it comes to writing guitar riffs, so to claim anything that sounds similar, no matter how vague the similarity is, is plagiarism and theft is absurd. Unless it's a carbon copy of the original (which is probably heavily inspired by something that sounds similar itself), it's not theft. Inspiration is not theft. Art is built upon other art. Art isn't some singular entity that exists in a vacuum.
They're audibly similar, but it's hardly a unique sound, as this video shows. The complete songs are pretty different (both excellent tracks) and I don't think the intent was to rip anyone off, really. The similarities between the Killing Joke riff and The Damned's track are probably more striking.
I was thinking the same thing, that Killing Joke and the Damned sounded more similar. The tempo on those songs are just different than 'Come as you are'. Different energy.
@Corby Dipsen Also, I agree the song by the Equals at 3:30 isn't even close to the same. However, nobody in this comments thread mentioned that song, so WTF are you talking about? You're mad at me that I agreed with the comment, but then talk about the random 3rd song, and tell me to shut up? Are you on your meds?
They’re almost the exact same
Nice. More Killing Joke & The Equals stories, please!
"Come As You Are" _sounds_ more like The Damned song (and moreso "So. Central Rain", to my ear) but, really, those variations of an Open E/A string riff came from the Goth scene, in general. Killing Joke just happened to do it better & more notably than anyone else up to that point. It's the kind of thing beginner guitarists come up with.
Geordie's riff is more complex & original (his unused riffs are better than most bands' hits) but they're all in the lineage of basic Post-Punk "guitar theory".
"It's the kind of thing beginner guitarists come up with."
Spot on!
Eighties sounds less like Come As You Are than the other songs.
I don't know if there's a Killing joke story worth a video in this chanel, but they were/are a killer band.
@@davidtingley9978 they still are. It's not as bad as Metallica covering their song "The Wait" and crediting it to the Misfits on the Garage Days EP, lol.
@@ericharmon7163 pretty sure they credited it to KJ. There was also a couple of Misfits (or a Misfits and a Samhain( song as well.
Who cares. There's a Quote that i wrote if someone does it better then leave it be. I know Jimi Hendrix had permission to blow Bob Dillon outta the water with ' All Along The Watchtower ' Now What !
More Killing Joke please. I love them. Plus they're still relevant today in their 60's. And other than the late, great Paul Raven, they are all still alive.
there must be 10000 pigface videos he could make.
They even wrote a song called I Am The Virus five years before Covid.
@@davidtingley9978 Pylon is a great double album. I wonder if a "New Cold War" is on the way? Oh Oh.
Agreed, Killing Joke are as important and influential as SWANS or maybe more, unfortunately KJ are underrated
@@ilyas_elouchihi I think being underrated is a good thing. It means you keep trying, stay hungry, and appreciate the fans you do have. Plus if a band isn't mainstream it feels like they are YOUR band. And if you can turn someone you know onto them, mission accomplished. I do wish Geordie Walker was appreciated more when it comes to guitarist. He should be mentioned along with Johnny Marr, Keith Levene, and Billy Duffy. And Michael Gira is a visionary.
Wow this is super interesting, Im a fairly big Killing Joke fan since 1984 and I knew of the Come as You are thing. Nirvana all but admitted it, you really can't imagine Kurt standing toe to toe with Jaz Coleman and arguing the toss. Have you seen Jaz Coleman he's one scray Mother!
There have been many discussions about it over the years, I seem to recall Jaz saying "look the guys dead, forget it I've moved on" or words to that effect.
But I didn't know about the similarity to the Equals track, you can definitely hear it, intentional or not.
I guess it just goes to prove what a great riff it is.
I love Killing Joke’s Eighties, But I don’t care if Nirvana ripped off it or Life goes on by The Damned, come as you are is a classic by its own right too. And the connection with the Killing Joke and The Damned songs makes me appreciate it even more.
it's not about your feelings
Killing Joke denied ever hearing the 1982 track from The Damned when they released Eighties 2 years later. Sure, that's pretty believable lol.
The main riff is a huge yes; they ripped Killing Joke off. I still like both songs.
It doesn’t and there, listen to smells like teen Spirit and then listen to Boston more than a feeling, if you got the year for it, you figured it out.
Both bands ripped off the "Damned". Killing joke has no room to cry plagiarism.
literally every form of rock music is ripped off from somebody else, get over it cuz nobody cares
@@brain4154 who are you telling to get over it? no one seems to be mad about it tho
@@jojohairee9987 And people win lawsuits over plagiarism all the time. It's not rock and roll. It's lazy no talent.
Regardless of the origin, Kurt did it better.
See also: "Life Goes On" by The Damned, and "22 Faces" by Garden of Delight.
EDIT: I posted this before finishing the video.
This. If anything, Killing Joke ripped off the song first.
Any punk/alternative band in the 80s, claiming that they never heard of The Damned are liars.
I also pointed this out before even watching the video... Then i rrad the comments to see who else knew there onions. 😉
@@beeragainsthumanity1420 Of course Killing Joke had heard of The Damned, doesn't necessarily mean they'd heard of a little known album track by them though.
In Bloom is such a better song than Come As You Are
Kurt knew it and admitted it. Just like More Than A Feeling and Louie Louie with Teen Spirit. I've written songs that I didn't realize I was channeling from some subconscious place. Then realized it later..."son of a BITCH."
Don't you hate it when that happens? I have a song "Regret" that has a chorus similar to The Lawrence Arms "Paradise Shitty". It was an accident but seems blatant. I kept it anyway. I figure if I get sued I could really use the publicity.
Kurt was sampling it
@delreydavid “then why are you here ?” - Kurt
@delreydavid it’s Saturday ...go hop in your Honda Civic and play #LilHondaCivic 🏎🎶👨🏽💻
@delreydavid a what
Motley Crue should pay royalties to killing joke ....love like blood intro ....Dr feelgood motley Crue ..
the riff is so simple tho, like its literally just going up and down 3 frets on 2 stings in a basic pattern.
No one ever said music had to be complicated.
@spzm Both.
@@rosssmith8481 its wasnt an insult im saying it to show how easy it is to discover the riff. copyrighting it would be dumb because its easy to come up organically
A simple riffs is a good riff, often enough,some of the best rock is real basic
Still a diferent song, and the nirvana song is better 👍🏾😎
I stumbled across “Life goes on” a few months back and kept thinking about how similar the riff was to “Come as you are.” Happy to see I’m not nuts!
if it was obvious, than they would have filed a suit!
They're both very different and both great songs in their own right.
Come as you are, while very similar to the other “rips” atleast has a different tempo and note structure then the others. eighties sounds more blatantly ripped off from life goes on.
it’s the kind of riff more than one musician can come up with by noodling around. that is all
Most of Metallica is ripped off..what's your point? That's modern music. They call it influence or inspiration.
It's such an easy riff to play, you'd think it would be pretty easy to write a similar one without knowing.
It's also so childlike idiotic barely anything musical about it to the point who on earth would even use that, only talentless idiots.
@@DJGodaryD86 sure
@@DJGodaryD86 you okay man?
@@Mickaahh Ask yourself that and stop replying to the wrong people.
@@DJGodaryD86 nah I was asking if you’re okay mate, you must be going through something judging by your comment
I found the Killing Joke song a couple of months ago on Spotify when looking for new tunes (well new to me) and I was immediately like, Kurt Cobain must have listened to this before he made Come As You Are. There are huge similarities indeed, bar the earliest example you gave, which is a very generic riff for the time and I wouldn't call it similar personally.
Humans are 99% identical, and music is somehow different? 😂
He took almost identical notes and did something completely different with them. As long as the songs feel and sound different, they are. Its the opposite effect as what Greta Van Fleet does.
Haha. I hate that band. No respect for them.
Greta van fleet is a good cover band I guess
@@mr.langustinos5808 butthurt that your favorite creatively bankrupt band was criticized?
@@mr.langustinos5808 I actually see a huge majority of people express hate for that ripoff hack band than I ever see people claim they're awesome.
Greta Van Fleet are just really popular cosplayers
Wow dude shared influences
I absolutely love Kurt Cobain and nirvana, but the song has been stolen multiple times, huge tipoff and kurt knew it..oh well play the game to win
The 4 skins - on the streets
Zebra - don't walk away
@@andrepereira744 lol the zebra song, the verse also sounds like times like these by the foo fighters
Deffo a rip off.
Deffo doesn't matter.
Both tunes bang
Devo took the riff of the song Oh, Pretty Woman by Roy Orbison for their song Whip It! All that they did was speed up the beat a little bit and then added a drum snare twice. Phil Collins used the opening tempo and pitch for Prince's song 1999 for his song Sussudio. People borrow from other people all of the time. Musicians and singers are inspired by other musical artists and remember, every popular song that people like over the last 40 + years only sold well because they all pretty much basically have exactly the same four chords no matter what the song. So it's also a subconscious, subliminal, psychosomatic reaction type of thing just as well as a popularity thing.
and even if they werent inspired/ never heard of other bands there is only 12 notes in bar and literally houndreds of thousends of songs. at some point some riffs will resemble others, so what? come as you are may have similar riff to eightis , but sounds nothing alike as a song
In the pre-rock n roll Delta blues scene of the 1930s guys 'borrowed' each others' material so frequently it can be hard to ascertain who even wrote some standards in the first place. There's a good chapter about this in John Leland's Hip: A History.
Kurt was aware it sounded like "Eighties", come on! The case with Devo is that Gerald V. Casale himself acknowledged that in public.
Phil Collins did not denied the similarity, too, and he said he listened to "1999" frequently while on tour.
That's the difference! If the artist wants to sue them or not, it's their decision. Kurt was aware and he chose not to say anything, it was nothing unconscious.
@@christophermerlot3366 You know there's a "blues scale" in music to correctly justify your wrong comparison? There's not a "Killing Joke scale" because the entire Delta Blues era is a landmark in music History, it influenced everyone. It's not just a band and a riff. Your sense of proportion is way out of it, it diminishes a period of music that changed the world.
All musicians get inspiration from previous musicians that's the way it is get over it guys Killing Joke loved the Damned Nirvana loved Killing Joke
and on and on......
Im also a musician and songwriter and you gotta be careful to what you listen to before you go into a writing session, recording session, or jam with your band. You can end up writing a song so similar to what you just heard by accident. Its hilarious that even Killing Joke ripped off the guitar part and still blamed Nirvana. Thats why copyright can be so silly at times because in contemporary music, there is a finite set of chords. Interesting that the effects to this riff are the same throughout each version though! Lots of reverb and maybe a little phaser or chorus effect to add to the riff's gloominess. Great video as always! Keep on rockin in the free world and doo doddley doo doo...
Your absolutely right , if you writing a song and have to worry the whole time that you've been influenced by other music . You may as well give up do sport where you'll be praised for copying someone else's signature move .
Last year I accidentally wrote No Quarter. My band thought I was joking.
That is a big problem when most of "your" songs only have 2 diferent parts.
The 4 skins - on the streets
Zebra - don't walk away
And many more
This riff was all over the eighties. We used to play versions of it all the time. Never heard of any of these bands, apart from Nirvana, before this video.
The "box riff" is just a natural shape that is half the music kids would make up.
Its a very simple riff so its understandable that so many bands have made songs with a similar one but not exactly the same. I think both songs are great though and all the other songs with this similar riff. Its cool that the riff is like the torch you pass on.
How can you own a bunch of major thirds and perfect fifths...
As a musician sometimes you play/record something similar to what you have heard at some point, but usually not consciously. Someone may point it out to you at a later date, and you go, ya, it does sound like that. Rock has only so many riffs. Let's called it "Influenced by".
Killing Joke are incredible. Amazing band.
I think before Kurt everbody played that riff wrong. The come as you are riff has a start, a middle section and an end. It sounds complete, melodic and great. Nobody played it this way before.
This.
BOOM!! Exactly. His melodic rhythm of the notes is amazing.
Excelent video! Didn t about The Damned song and the other goth band and 60s group. Only the Killing Joke song , huge fan of them. Please post more of this type of material. It s awesome.
Cobain admitted to stealing the riff. He didn’t expect it to be some huge hit when he wrote it. Their first album sold less than 5000 copies. Had nevermind sold as expected, the similarities wouldnt have been an issue.
How? If the two riffs are in no way the same if you look at how they're played and the notes used, the only similarity would be the main effect used.
@@Deaf_Notes The melody is the same and that is what wins lawsuits. Tom Petty got the rights of a huge song recently because the melody was the same as I wont back down
He didn't admit that, he said that he was afraid they sounded similar. Obviously from that you can infer that he was worried that people would accuse him of that. That doesn't mean he directly ripped it off. Personally I think 'Come As You Are' sounds distinct and unique and it's actually Garden of Delight's '22 Faces' and KJ's 'Eighties' that sound identical to each other. That being said, songs will always sound like other songs as there's only a finite amount of pleasing note arrangements available. And artists will always emulate their influences. Same in every other industry
@@ringtail1401 Funny how some artist go entire multimillion record selling careers without plagiarizing a single song, though…..
@@ringtail1401 of course you’d think Come As You Are is completely unique because it’s Nirvana. 😒
I saw them in Melbourne on that Australian tour. It was sad, Kurt was obviously husked out, hardly moving from the mic, a fan blasting him in the face. The Bleach songs were the only ones they played with any passion.
I have more than a feeling that there were several inspirations that went into this song.
I see what ya did there
Yeah cuz it sounds like Massachusetts 🤘👹🤘
@@scottricci5063 Austin Massachusetts?
@@brianlehmkuhl8162 precisely or thereabouts
Killing Joke got hit with the original “this you?” lmfao
As a musician, I know that sometimes subconsciously you might really like a song and or have it in your mind and when you, yourself are writing a song. The influence pops up unintentionally. I do find it funny tho and maybe too much of a coincidence that both songs have an overuse of the flanger effect lol. Oh well. Art influences art and I don't think Kurt did it with the purpose of "ripping someone off".
Inspiration equals plagiarism now??
“Inspiration” lol
Inspiration?
Dude it’s a total rip off.
Dave Grohl even admitted it.
Kurt said himself that ripping of the pixies was the key to everything 😂😂😂
Come as you are is the better song to me, all of them good though
People take riffs from each other. This goes all the way back to the Beatles. I don't fault Nirvana for doing what essentially every rock band has ever done
The Beatles!? Ever see Amadeus?
Led zeppelin stole lyrics and music
@@aarondoodles3380 ...again, I refer you to Beethoven.
@@benjamingamache6441 Everybody stole off him!
@@aarondoodles3380 and he basically stole from salieri.
I think it was influenced by
Why didn't Killing Joke sue Nirvana?
KJ's punk ethos is: Money is not our God. It's even one of their song titles.
"Why didn't Killing Joke sue Nirvana?"
The same reason why The Damned (Life Goes On) and Garden of Delight (22 Faces) didn't sue Killing Joke.
It’s also very similar to a sonic youth song.. so yea lol
I saw the guitarist from Killing Joke at the time and he was incredibly angry. He said something about sneaking into Kurt's home, blowing his head off with a shotgun and making it look like suicide but Courtney Love beat him to it.
This is the best conspiracy theory I've ever seen
Come As You Are is so much more than that killing joke tune... It's night and day. Yeah, if you aren't allowed to play the same two notes in entirely different songs, then good night music, then nobody can release a song again.
Cobain's vocal melody was light years beyond the vocal melodies that accompanied the other songs. The vocal melody on top of the riff was what set Come As You Are apart. He was definitely influenced by those riffs though. It's a grey area.
Exactly. The main riff is essentially just a chord change. The melody is a much more distinctive element that would be grounds for claiming somebody copied something.
@Neil Toddie always preferred AIC..hope they didn't plagiarise too :(
Whining, screaming and not being able to sing are not called vocals nor melodies especially not singing. Whoever listens to this garbage should have a surgery or hearing aid.
@@cago5512 what kind of music do you listen to?
@@cago5512 Kurt vocals is very soulful, feels real like he meant it, angry and full of energy, suited for his style of rebellious music. Kurt vocals is so punk, that is feels more true punk than the real punk music like Sex Pistols vocals. And Nirvana is a very rare bands that performing live is much better than on the records. That's why many tries to cover Nirvana and failed miserably. I prefer Kurt than all others singer that wrote songs just for the sake of making money, fake.
Their last top 40? What about heart shaped box?
Great song, regardless of whether or not they "ripped off" the riff.
I've long since come to the conclusion that I don't care how "original" a piece of music is -- if I like it, then that's that, and nobody can tell me otherwise.
Nope…reaching. They are clearly all different riffs.
I don't think there's any question Nirvana drew inspiration from the Killing Joke riff.. it's not a full blown rip off, tho, it's an homage. It's ridiculous and petty they whined about it, and WAY more so after I'm now hearing that Damned riff. The Killing Joke guitar line is actually way closer to the Damned line than Nirvana's to Killing Joke's.
Its hart at some point to not have similar notes in music.
I'll have to give a nod to the Damned, It's their riff, If I was Mr Sensible I'd be suing Killing Joke & Nirvana.
Obviously, Killing Jokes the Eighties was lifted & anyone who listened to the Pixies, well its undeniable....
Interesting, but Kurt also built a hands down AMAZING song around that one riff. Took it to another level.
Did you listened Eighties? This song is wonderful, even better than come as you are!
I love come as you are, but Eighties was “on another level” already
@@raphaelcalado4335 u trippin
@@raphaelcalado4335 matter of opinions, I like Come as you are better than Eighties
@@JRamos97 ok my brother, I never intended to say one is better than other, I just think that both have their qualities!
@@raphaelcalado4335 fr
It’s a great riff. Obviously a lot of bands agree 🤔
These guys claiming they didn't know who The Damned were is the joke.
But is it killing?
@@cholling1
Killing their credibility for me anyway.
KJ was unfamiliar with the track, not the band. It's clearly stated in the video. This is prior to the internet, it's entirely possible that KJ wasn't paying attention to The Damned's Pop lp.
That riff is super close but Trent did the same thing grabbing crystal Japan from Bowie 🤷🏼♂️
When I visited Edgar Allan Poe's grave I wore a Damned shirt. One of the best bands ever.
kurt already knew killing joke. he once said that it was a sub conscience deal
As a musician that writes,. I'll say this...There is nothing new under the sun,. every song,. riff, or lyric is inspired by something or someone else. I hear similarities in everything from commercial jingles, to the latest pop tunes,. If you walk this Earth long enough,. You will see repetition in nearly everything........
It’s all chord patterns...
Only so many combinations out there really 👍
Especially because most music is actually really simplistic, repetitive and rigid in it's structure... And it's one of the main reasons I dig classical, jazz and progressive music.
hate win people say rip off. it happens. musicians know this weird little struggle
there's a thin line between inspiration and rip off. however i think bands should take it as a complement instead of getting butt hurt
Most bands don't make much money, so when they see a bigger band making a fortune from an inspiration/rip-off of their music, I bet it hurts a lot. I would personally feel sick if someone made lots of money off their creations that were extremely similar to my creations that came first.
I think the bands using it consciously should state that it is a citation or homage, not the other band suddenly finding out.
Or just be like Noel Gallagher, "I ripped off, so what" kind of attitude, it sounds more like a homage than trying to hide it and you can sue him at the same time lol
@@HermeticWorlds Exactly!
The Equals' and Nirvana's songs don't sound anything like the other 3. Killing Joke plaged The Damned and Garden of Delight plaged KJ; KJ's song is the best of the 3. Side note--The Equals' guitarist, Eddy Grant, later had the huge 80s hit "Electric Avenue."
22 Faces was released 1 year before Eighties, so KJ plagued Garden of Delight, not the other way around.
So be it. I still say KJ's version is the best of the 3, plagiarism notwithstanding.@@clipcoug1139
I've been a killing joke fan since my early teens the 80's , but I failed to pick up on the similarity . Kurt made something completely different out of it so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt .
even if he copied, its not a big deal because he made it his own
But Kurt himself saw that the tracks were very similar. I’m not saying he copied anything either
Furthermore, Killing Joke claiming they never heard The Damned's song is just as absurd as Nirvana allegedly claiming they never heard Killing Joke's song.
Both The Damned and Killing Joke are two of the most influential punk/post-punk/goth bands of all time and they frequented many of the same circles.
It’s basically the same song, are you serious
@@willnill7946 The guitar riff has one different note , the tempo is not the same . And the melody of the singing is completely different , and eighties is a way better song .
Yeah but the difference is that Cobain lashed out at people accusing them of ripping others off over the years. Let’s all feel comfortable with the fact that a) liking an artists work is OK but it doesn’t mean they are good people. And B) cobain was a super talented pretentious prick.
I've been writing music for about 4 years and I remember being extremely worried early on about the whole "ripping off" thing, everytime I wrote something I used to squeeze my brain to make sure I wasn't just playing something I overheard previously... thank god I moved away from that... I've come to a point where I don't give a shit about it anymore for the simple reason that basically every single chord progression and combined arrangement of guitar riffs/licks, vocal harmonies and time signatures have been wrote some way or another. At least this goes for the simple songwriting that's required for alt rock (the genre I mostly play), you can still find unexplored territories in jazz and more technical genres, but at what cost? For a songwriter like me that focuses on catchy 4/4 stuff it would make no sense to get technical and it's not my thing...
So all this to say that people should not take this whole "ripping off" so strictly... unless the two songs are identical under every aspect (riff, vocal harmony, chord progression) or the artist intentionally stole an entire arrangement section it's entirely possible that it was a casual coincidence and you should not feel guilty with yourself because of it... there are only so many chord progressions and harmonies, it's nearly impossible to create a new one, especially if you keep your riffs simple like Kurt did with Come as you are...
This said and having heard life goes on and eighties I hear very little similarities between one another since they all evolve into different progressions and have different vocal harmonies and styles... I can totally get around the idea that none of them heard eachother and it was coincidence
I subscribed to this channel because of your nice cool logo such a perfect logo for a rock n roll stuff.
It's almost like you can't copyright a chord progression. It's almost like western music follows a format. It's almost like half the songs are Pachelbel.
Because the hook brings you back.
Many rip off. They mostly rip off classical or Christian gospel. Beatles riped off the Arioso song by Boch (a Lutheran) when they wrote Hey Jude. Beatles just added an extra note at intro melody. Guns n roses riped off the 1975 Christian rock song Watergrave by Dogwood when they done riffs to Paradise City. On vocal melody , Bananarama riped off City Limits -Lost In His Love song (featuring another Christian ,Joe English from Wings) when they done Cruel Summer 3 years latter. Etc. Michael Omartain (a Christian who was featured on Steely Dans Aja song) was a singer,player n producer who gave Christopher Cross his debute sound. It was Michaels ideas& not Cross. Hear his jamming songs from 70s. Jeremiah etc. Alive n well. Blows Pink Floyd away!
Misfits’ “Fiend Club” has a somewhat similar riff too.
Same with Life Goes On by The Damned.
@@thedaddypatty5192 have you watched the whole video lmao
@@droideca88 At the time I wrote that comment, no. I was watching as I was commenting.
I’m a die hard nirvana fan but I honestly like eighties a whole lot better
Always thought that "Radio friendly unit shifter" was a bigger Killing Joke rip off 🤔
Nan, RFUS is more from PIL song annalisa.
Also you can try The 4 skins - on the streets
Zebra - don't walk away
@@andrepereira744 Annalisa sounds nothing like RFUS, other than the drum beat is similar. The chord progression from On the Streets does sound a lot like the New Wave version of Polly, so that's a point, but they were a tiny Oi band, so would Kurt have ever heard them? Possibly, but I'm not convinced. The initial riff from Don't Walk Away sounds a bit like Been a Son, but not exactly the same. Not sure there's enough there tbh
@@ringtail1401 "a bit". There are many more but ok, whatever.
@@andrepereira744 There's plenty of songs by plenty of artists that sound a bit like other songs. It's impossible to be 100% original, that's not how life works. You say there's many more so name them..
@@ringtail1401 100% original? Maybe not, but thats no reason to be 50% or less original.
If you choose to write songs with 1 or 2, 3 diferent parts max, that will happen for sure.
Look at Mastodon or Meshuggah for example. 100% original? Maybe not, but close enough.
The thing is, Cobain is not that original genius most people portray.
As for more songs, do yourself your homework.
Elvis Costello "Pump me up!" and Rogue Traders "Voodoo Child." Similar situation, similar intros.
Yes. Yes they did.
The Damned did it first. The Damned did a LOT of things first.