Thank you for doing this. I've wanted to do this test for myself because I paint a LOT of varnished wood. I am loath even to scuff sand unless I have to (I usually won't unless it is prone to getting abused). I was thinking I would be disappointed that you were not going to test BIN shellac or oil primers, but with the results of the high end water primers you tested, what is the need. What I would like to see tested are sandable primers. At this point I always use BIN shellac when I need a flawlessly smooth undercoat because it sands like a dream. The lower end, water based primers I have had quick access to claim to be sandable, but not for a fine finish. I don't know if there are better quality, sandable water based primers. Thanks again. Some of the most useful paint info I have gleaned from the Internet!
I always used BIN when finishing cabinets. NOTHING beats BIN for adhesion. It is fast drying. When sprayed, it lays out so well that no sanding is necessary. It is also a stain killer, so that tannins will not bleed through. It is also a superior primer for bare wood. I used BIN on raw wood when had to get in and out in one day. Two coats of BIN and a finish coat will hold up in only one coat.
@@nejdro1 If I only had one primer to choose it would be BIN. I only use 2 coats to spot treat stubborn stains (which is almost never needed!) It's primary purpose it to help adhere paint to a substrate--two coats won't enhance that virtue. A second top coat is preferable to seal the micro-holes in the first coat to protect the finish from harmful environmental agents (UV, dirt, moisture, etc.) A second top coat covers any "holidays" in the first coat ensuring more even coverage, and perhaps most importantly provides an even sheen. Two primer coats will accomplish none of that.
I did many dark paneled 1960'ish family rooms, where the customer wanted to lighten things up, but not suffer major remodeling. Twice around with the BIN would completely blank out that dark wood in minimal time. It would also not put a heavy build up to hide the minimal grain of the wood. I would finish coat with Ben Moore's Oil Satin Impervo. ( I am talking 20 years ago). The room had a dramatic change and the paneling had a durable, factory like finish. I would come back the next day to paint the ceiling, do a little touch up of areas that couldn't be done with the HVLP sprayer, replace the hardware and be done in two days. Now-a-days, I might well be using one of the newer water based finish coats, but i would stick with the BIN, $75 per gallon or not!@@FisherCatProductions
Very useful video. I’m currently re-doing a job that I sub’d out last fall when I was really busy with other jobs. Turns out the sub did a pretty amateur job, no sanding, no priming and only one coat. This work is for a great customer (and long time friend), and I guarantee all my work, even if I sub it out, so no income for me on this job. I’m about halfway through the prep work, and I need to figure out how deep to go to get a good result. This video will help a lot. Live and learn. 🙄
Thanks for doing this! It’s definitely very helpful. I’m just starting my huge, overwhelming kitchen refinishing project and looking for the right primer. I’m going with Behr, plus a stain blocker for tannins. I just watched a recent video on the SW extreme bonding primer where it failed. The painter talked to the reps, who said there have been some problems with it in the last year. Watching this painter having to redo the whole job was enough to scare me off, even though I already started with it.
DIY here as well and 3 diff SW stores all recommended the sw extreme bond primer without sanding. Would love not sanding but at the same time I’m concerned about peeling and also tannin bleed with the extremes bond primer. If you wouldn’t mind sharing, I’m really interested in how your process worked out for you. Did you lay the Behr bonding primer right on your varnished cabinets without sanding? Then you laid another primer on top of that to block any tannin bleed?..if so, which one? Any help/info/experience would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
hey brother i just painted 45 cabinet doors with 5 coats of poly+stain behr and its already wearing off 😖😖😖😖 took me like 3 weeks!! Can i save my kitchen by using that extreme bond and some good paint? or do i have to sand that polyurethane ?
You will have to remove the stuff you put on.... sorry. Even if you put the primer on top, the bond between original and poly+stain won't get any stronger...
What about the other Behr primer that was primed? I just bought that primer to use for my trim in my house on rough wood. I didn't sand anything before, but I am sanding after primer, I may have to use another coat of primer or I will just use top coat now.
I have some wood trim that I am painting that had been previously stained and had a definite gloss to it. I have sanded most of the gloss off but still have tannin bleed through after coat 1 of sherwin Williams multi purpose primer. I’m wondering which primer you thought was the best as far as bleed through protection and if any could be used with one coat or if you should always do 2 coats or primer regardless? Thanks!
solvent base primers work the best for bleed through that the biggest downfall of water based stuff, sherwin make stain blocking primer you can try that. 1 coat of primer unless something like this happens there are specialty 2K waterbase primers (renner and centurion) that work pretty well, but usually not sold at local paint shops.
I'm in the process of sanding all my trim... Then I will work on stripping the cabinets and priming and then painting them. It's gonna take time but that's okay.
Strip your cabinets? Wash well with Dawn soap. Use Krud kutter on cabinets around your stove and sink. Lightly sand, then use liquid sandpaper. Prime with Kilz restoration, then lightly sand. The paint your cabinets two coats, sanding with 220 between coats. Stripping them opens all the pores and is not necessary.
Liked the video.. I do have a request. Can you add the extreme bond oil primer to the test? They also have a new extreme bond urethane primer as well. I'm extremely interested in how much stronger they are, as well as how much better they are at stain blocking. Great video!
I would be curious how BIN compares. I understand you aren’t going to prime an entire house with BIN. But it seems like that would be the best control for your test. I’d also be interesting in having you tell us the prices.
Would like to see what's the best WB primer low voc for both bonding and tannin. Tannin blocking is extremely important. Also if any of those would be grain filling primers.
I paint cabinets for a living. Been using Kilz restoration. It blocks lite tannin and does a great job filling oak pores. I light spray, quickly brush it into the grain, pores, laying it off as clean as possible, then spray another light coat to finish the cabinet door. It lays out smooth. Once dry, I then use pro block spray cans from SW to seal any tannin bleed. So far so good.
@@raulzamora8928 been using behr cabinet and trim, satin. Fflp 208 or 308. Roll cabinet boxes and face frames with a 3/8 x 4 microfiber and brush out with the grain. Lays off beautifully and minimal, minimal brush marks. Have to use 100% nylon brush.
What is going on? What professional painter brushes and sands and works on a cabinet while on the floor!? Haha!? Sorry this whole video reminds me of homeowners trying to do DIY projects.
Too many variables here, we have no idea where those cabinet panels were pulled from. ones closer to the stove or cooking areas are going to have way more cooking grease and food particles interfering with adhesion. We’ve done numerous test with stix, Sherwin extreme bond, kills restoration and BIN. Sticks and bin always blow away everybody else in every test. The benefit of Bin is that it will kill all stains and tannins, the downside it is is not flexible, and can shear under certain circumstances.
Light scuff and wipe with tsp, or crud cutter, 2 quick coats Rherwood, done, and done. You need to get into the waterborne 2Ks and conversions, Renner etc. You are wasting your time, and using inferior products. Renner, and Sherwood 45 min between coats, way more durable.
Great test man. We appreciate the time you took to help us.
Excellent Testing Video…Thanks for making this 👍👍
Thank you for taking the time to do that for us 👍
Great video , I appreciate all the time you guys took to demonstrate these primers . Thank you
Thank you for putting in the time, this really helps!!
Thank you for doing this. I've wanted to do this test for myself because I paint a LOT of varnished wood. I am loath even to scuff sand unless I have to (I usually won't unless it is prone to getting abused). I was thinking I would be disappointed that you were not going to test BIN shellac or oil primers, but with the results of the high end water primers you tested, what is the need.
What I would like to see tested are sandable primers. At this point I always use BIN shellac when I need a flawlessly smooth undercoat because it sands like a dream. The lower end, water based primers I have had quick access to claim to be sandable, but not for a fine finish. I don't know if there are better quality, sandable water based primers. Thanks again. Some of the most useful paint info I have gleaned from the Internet!
I always used BIN when finishing cabinets. NOTHING beats BIN for adhesion. It is fast drying. When sprayed, it lays out so well that no sanding is necessary. It is also a stain killer, so that tannins will not bleed through.
It is also a superior primer for bare wood. I used BIN on raw wood when had to get in and out in one day. Two coats of BIN and a finish coat will hold up in only one coat.
@@nejdro1 If I only had one primer to choose it would be BIN. I only use 2 coats to spot treat stubborn stains (which is almost never needed!) It's primary purpose it to help adhere paint to a substrate--two coats won't enhance that virtue. A second top coat is preferable to seal the micro-holes in the first coat to protect the finish from harmful environmental agents (UV, dirt, moisture, etc.) A second top coat covers any "holidays" in the first coat ensuring more even coverage, and perhaps most importantly provides an even sheen. Two primer coats will accomplish none of that.
I did many dark paneled 1960'ish family rooms, where the customer wanted to lighten things up, but not suffer major remodeling. Twice around with the BIN would completely blank out that dark wood in minimal time. It would also not put a heavy build up to hide the minimal grain of the wood. I would finish coat with Ben Moore's Oil Satin Impervo. ( I am talking 20 years ago). The room had a dramatic change and the paneling had a durable, factory like finish. I would come back the next day to paint the ceiling, do a little touch up of areas that couldn't be done with the HVLP sprayer, replace the hardware and be done in two days. Now-a-days, I might well be using one of the newer water based finish coats, but i would stick with the BIN, $75 per gallon or not!@@FisherCatProductions
Very useful video. I’m currently re-doing a job that I sub’d out last fall when I was really busy with other jobs. Turns out the sub did a pretty amateur job, no sanding, no priming and only one coat.
This work is for a great customer (and long time friend), and I guarantee all my work, even if I sub it out, so no income for me on this job.
I’m about halfway through the prep work, and I need to figure out how deep to go to get a good result.
This video will help a lot.
Live and learn. 🙄
Good for you for standing by the work and redoing the job to get it right. A shame the person you hired to do it originally didn't do good prep.
Really great informative video, I'm glad you only tested waterbased primers since that's what the industry is moving towards 👍
When you did the test Behr appeared to do the worst, yet in the results you declared it second best? Please clarify.
I'm wondering the same thing. In the demonstration, the Behr primer scuffed. I'm so confused.
Thanks for doing this! It’s definitely very helpful. I’m just starting my huge, overwhelming kitchen refinishing project and looking for the right primer. I’m going with Behr, plus a stain blocker for tannins. I just watched a recent video on the SW extreme bonding primer where it failed. The painter talked to the reps, who said there have been some problems with it in the last year. Watching this painter having to redo the whole job was enough to scare me off, even though I already started with it.
DIY here as well and 3 diff SW stores all recommended the sw extreme bond primer without sanding. Would love not sanding but at the same time I’m concerned about peeling and also tannin bleed with the extremes bond primer. If you wouldn’t mind sharing, I’m really interested in how your process worked out for you. Did you lay the Behr bonding primer right on your varnished cabinets without sanding? Then you laid another primer on top of that to block any tannin bleed?..if so, which one? Any help/info/experience would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Thanks for this information. Very informative
Fantastic video
Very educational
Thank you so much
Thank you. That was a great video I think I will give a sherwin Williams primer a try.
Thank you for a very informative video! One question, did you use any kind of cleaner / degreaser before sanding?
Bin for stained wood. Best bond and stain block
What? I thought the Behr left scuff marks?
Super insightful, thanks for sharing.
hey brother i just painted 45 cabinet doors with 5 coats of poly+stain behr and its already wearing off 😖😖😖😖 took me like 3 weeks!!
Can i save my kitchen by using that extreme bond and some good paint? or do i have to sand that polyurethane ?
You will have to remove the stuff you put on.... sorry. Even if you put the primer on top, the bond between original and poly+stain won't get any stronger...
What about the other Behr primer that was primed? I just bought that primer to use for my trim in my house on rough wood. I didn't sand anything before, but I am sanding after primer, I may have to use another coat of primer or I will just use top coat now.
The other behr one did well, just check it by seeing if you can scrape it off with you fingernail, if you cannot then you are good to go.
@@prosperitypaintingconsulta5362 true, it does seem pretty solid. Luckily this window trim was bare so it stuck very well
I have some wood trim that I am painting that had been previously stained and had a definite gloss to it. I have sanded most of the gloss off but still have tannin bleed through after coat 1 of sherwin Williams multi purpose primer.
I’m wondering which primer you thought was the best as far as bleed through protection and if any could be used with one coat or if you should always do 2 coats or primer regardless? Thanks!
solvent base primers work the best for bleed through that the biggest downfall of water based stuff, sherwin make stain blocking primer you can try that. 1 coat of primer unless something like this happens there are specialty 2K waterbase primers (renner and centurion) that work pretty well, but usually not sold at local paint shops.
This helped me a lot. Thank you.
Zinger bin primer. If you find one almost same good please let me know
im about to Panit my kitchen cabinets, what is the best paint.thank you,
I'm in the process of sanding all my trim... Then I will work on stripping the cabinets and priming and then painting them.
It's gonna take time but that's okay.
Strip your cabinets? Wash well with Dawn soap. Use Krud kutter on cabinets around your stove and sink. Lightly sand, then use liquid sandpaper. Prime with Kilz restoration, then lightly sand. The paint your cabinets two coats, sanding with 220 between coats. Stripping them opens all the pores and is not necessary.
Liked the video.. I do have a request. Can you add the extreme bond oil primer to the test? They also have a new extreme bond urethane primer as well. I'm extremely interested in how much stronger they are, as well as how much better they are at stain blocking. Great video!
Great suggestion!
I would be curious how BIN compares. I understand you aren’t going to prime an entire house with BIN. But it seems like that would be the best control for your test. I’d also be interesting in having you tell us the prices.
BIN really is the gold standard. 👍
Yes. Bin is the easily the best to use. Also sands better than any of their recommendations
38.........days
You're welcome to tell a client that 😉
I would just use BIN and call it a day. No chance of tannin bleed through weeks down the road after top coat application = no call backs!
Would like to see what's the best WB primer low voc for both bonding and tannin. Tannin blocking is extremely important. Also if any of those would be grain filling primers.
I paint cabinets for a living. Been using Kilz restoration. It blocks lite tannin and does a great job filling oak pores. I light spray, quickly brush it into the grain, pores, laying it off as clean as possible, then spray another light coat to finish the cabinet door. It lays out smooth. Once dry, I then use pro block spray cans from SW to seal any tannin bleed. So far so good.
@@jannisct which paint do you use for the top coat. Thanks.
@@raulzamora8928 been using behr cabinet and trim, satin. Fflp 208 or 308. Roll cabinet boxes and face frames with a 3/8 x 4 microfiber and brush out with the grain. Lays off beautifully and minimal, minimal brush marks. Have to use 100% nylon brush.
@@janniscttoo much work brother, try Renner 602, it’ll save you a lot of time.
they sticks , but what about the stain come through for the grain on each primer?
Yes, I was also wondering which one was the best for blocking stain.
Thanks man
Behr??
What is going on? What professional painter brushes and sands and works on a cabinet while on the floor!? Haha!? Sorry this whole video reminds me of homeowners trying to do DIY projects.
STRIP, SAND then prime. It's the only way to do it.
Too many variables here, we have no idea where those cabinet panels were pulled from. ones closer to the stove or cooking areas are going to have way more cooking grease and food particles interfering with adhesion. We’ve done numerous test with stix, Sherwin extreme bond, kills restoration and BIN. Sticks and bin always blow away everybody else in every test. The benefit of Bin is that it will kill all stains and tannins, the downside it is is not flexible, and can shear under certain circumstances.
😂 your knees are gonna love you. They invented this thing called tables a few years back
Don’t use one though not for pros
Light scuff and wipe with tsp, or crud cutter, 2 quick coats Rherwood, done, and done. You need to get into the waterborne 2Ks and conversions, Renner etc. You are wasting your time, and using inferior products. Renner, and Sherwood 45 min between coats, way more durable.
If killz was applied properly that won't come out