Curved Fingers Vs. Flat Fingers - Josh Wright Piano TV
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
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Видеоклипы
![[UNBANNED] A SCANDALOUS Theory about Horowitz's peculiar Piano Playing Technique](/img/1.gif)
The face distortion at 00:56
LooooL
HOLY SHIT
xD
Violeta Romero that was scary
Its kinda special emotional condition for playing such difficult pieces.
2:11 "See I barely have to move." *plays ridiculously fast*
Lucias the Goose calm down
😂
Lmao. He’s more saying it feels like your barely moving, as compared to flat fingers. I’ve recently started focusing greatly on playing curved and it makes so much of a difference
a lot of people may think that these videos are outdated but this is treasure
true that
I am still watching and enjoying this lesson eight years after it was posted.
facts, I looked it up because of Glenn Gould
Flat-curved finger technique is a physical concept that one could write pages of articles about. Flat finger technique lowers the torque which casues you to put more power to play if you have weak fingers. But, due to the conservation of work/energy, it also allows you to move your muscles shorter to move the tip of your finger. Just like the bucket-pole instance. The longer the pole, the shorter you have to move your hands to move the bucket at the end of the pole fastly. It's all about your physical specialities. If you are an average person, I recommend you to use the curved finger technique. But if you have strong fingers and are worrying about lack of speed, I recommed you to use flat finger technique. The technique is not bad at all. There are great pianists used this method, like Vladimir Horowitz.
Murat Baskın you re right Vladimir play at all with flat fing, that is true
Even if it makes it faster to tap keys on a small scale, there are some serious tradoffs involved. The main problem is that the flatter your fingers, the less flexibility in reach you have. If you go flat enough, there's no way you're going to be able to reach the keys properly without also bending your wrists and increasing your body motion in general.
physics
I find curved fingers to be un-ergonomical in many ways, and flat fingers really makes me play faster. I do have strong fingers for sure, I don't know if that really matters though.
There is only one Vladimir Horowitz and it's not me.
The last 2 videos of yours I watched answered my most important questions! Thank you so much!!
Thanks Josh! I'm a twenty-something year old Russian trained piano teacher that has male students who are taller than I am...sometimes they think I have no right to tell them what to do. So it really helps them respect what I have to say when I can show them your movies and explain to them the concept again; sometimes they take you more seriously than they do me! Gaining their respect slowly but your movies certainly help speed up that process. Thanks so much!
+Amanda Cooksey That's ridiculous. They're paying you to teach them and then they don't listen to what you tell them? I wouldn't even put up with that attitude. Find students that respect you as a professional piano player and teacher.
danobot Certainly agree
@@danobot12 I agree
This is a usual thing with Western students. They do not take any criticism.
Love your style of teaching. This is stuff I found out for myself when practicing so its nice to find someone who goes through the nitty gritty technical stuff. Subscribed
Thank you! My five year old is starting to learn to play and we could only find videos on how to play with curved fingers, not why! Thanks for the detailed explanation!
Fabulous explanations. Love your analogies!
Thank you. I've been going over this concept a lot with my teacher recently.
Best explanation I have heard. I see a lot if great pianists using flat fingers, and was quite puzzled by it. Thanks
Thank you!!!!! I'm starting to really like this guy :)
Your explanation was clear, logical and convincing! You must be a great teacher!
Thank you so much for this video Josh !!! God bless you !!!
Thanks for all the tips, i´m just a beginner and i like that your videos about technique are very realistic. Saludos desde Mexico!
This was very helpful. You are so generous with your knowledge!. Your vids have answered many questions, and always give me something to try out at the piano. The vids about relaxation have been particularly invaluable, since I struggle with that.
Oh I just started learning that piece:D thanks for this great video
I can’t recommend Thomas Mark’s excellent book ‘What Every Pianist Needs to Know About the Body’ highly enough as it goes into great detail about the anatomy of the body including the ‘hand’ in the context of playing the piano. It has totally changed how I play the piano. I now use myself better and have less tension and pain. As he writes “If you ask most people where the fingers start they will point to the joint of their fingers with the hand [knuckles], not the joint of the hand with the wrist. But pianists should map their hands on the basis of the underlying structure, not the appearance. We should FEEL that our fingers do not end at the knuckles, they end at the Carpo Metacarpel (CMC) joints where they connect with the wrist bones and they include the meta carpal bones”.In essence, a good body map reminds us to think of a wrist which connects to our fingers. A bad map:a forearm connected by a hinge to a hand, and a hand connected at the knuckles to the fingers. To play chords or octaves see what a difference it makes if you shift your thinking from stretching or spreading your visible fingers to allowing the piano to open your whole hand right back to the CMC joints near your wrist joints.
hi josh! i have been uploading videos once a week for something like a month now and i know it can be very difficult to keep the consistency... anyway i just wanted to thank you for all of your work... a lot of the things you say have helped me a lot!
Thank you! You did a great job of explaining this. It makes sense to me now. n.b. I'm not a piano player. just a piano enthusiast! Cheers!
Brilliant explanation!!! Thanks Josh!
The camera angle is very good, and shows what you are doing clearly. When you played the Op 25/2 excerpt, your fingers were in fact fairly flat, but you raised the hand - the knuckles were the highest point of the hand, and the wrist was lower. When demonstrating "flat fingers", you lowered your hand - it was level with the keys, as was your wrist. Keeping the knuckles high enables one to use a flatter finger position without having to play in between the black notes (very hard if one has thick fingers), and it means the thumb can reach the white keys easily, same with the fifth, unless one has a long fifth finger.
Thank you, Josh Very helpful
tremendo! thank you Josh!
just GREAT. (i play in piano bar ,cocktails,etc....my english is very bad but i ve all understand.I adore !! thanks JOSH
Thank you Josh.
You should write a book for the piano students. I would like to have a book where to consult for questions about technique and expression as you explain it.
Wow! I began to get a bit nervous for a moment because I thought curved fingers were contrary to what my teacher was telling me. I am an avid lover of Scriabin's miniatures. I was taking lessons in college in the late 80's and she suggested I learn his opus 16 no.4 prelude. She insisted on flat fingers to do exactly as you stated for cantabile tone.
Very informative, thank you.
Great! Thanks!
I'm not gonna lie, his change from normal face to piano *locked in* face at 00:56 is actually terrifying
Great stuff.
Incoming possesion 0:57
Pau Mas Abad omg he does look possessed, in a good way xD.
LMAO
Great observation!
Thank you for generously sharing your excellent videos Josh. How do you achieve projection to the back of a large hall with flat fingers ?
Thank you
when I play classical piano I'm usually always playing with curved fingers, but when I switch to jazz sometimes the curved fingers don't give me enough of a percussive style (particularly when I have to play over loud drums and other instruments). I much prefer the curved finger style for speed and clarity of tone but sometimes i get more groove playing flat
What's the name of the piece you're playing around 3:20? It sounds familiar to me :)
addition: you can also check when your finger moves a certain distance, how many degrees the joint behind will turn. The flat finger means that your joint will rotate to a lager degree
thank you josh, very useful as always. another piece that "demands" flat fingers ist schubert's impromptu in g flat no. 90-3. browse for "schubert impromptu 90-3 g flat horowitz" to see an incredibly touching interpretation by vladimir horowitz in his late years.
Not sure if that piece really "demands" flat fingers. I've noticed lots of professional pianists playing the accompaniment voice with curved. That being said, I find flat fingers work really well for me in that piece though.
A related question is: How do we get ourselves into incorrect hand configurations (curved vs. non-curved)? For me, it is when I must move my hands in a leap. I unconsciously splay my fingers when landing in an attempt to increase my chances of my fingers hitting the correct keys. Anyone else have this problem? Is it a problem? Did you do anything to modify this behavior?
Flat fingers are accurate if you're comfortable with it you will play it slower and that's the problem. Well just follow this video I guess
I'm not a professional pianist but here are my two cents having studied under a Russian trained teacher. I think Russians use a technique that involves flat fingers - but the focus is not only on the flat fingers but also the motion of the fingers. I think you have mentioned in your free hand video that there is a Russian technique involving "pulling back" of finger to free the tension, and I think that is what distinguishes the Russian school - my teacher sort of called it the grabbing motion. You would stroke the keys before releasing, and it's same motion for staccato or legato or anywhere in between - it is simply a variation of how long you stroke the key depending on the sound you want to produce. I think this is in part how Russians produce the depth in their music because that massaging of the keys really helps the hammers to hit the strings solidly and beautifully. The movement is also the same regardless of speed - the technique also helped me to play faster and cleaner, too, due to the way the fingers move. I don't think I know how to play with curved finger anymore.
As soon as you played the piano i clicked subscribe
Great video, what is your thoughts on trilling with flat fingers? It seems easier to me but I don't know if it is technically correct.
Martha Argerich plays with flat fingers and has one of the most perfect techniques ever seen in piano
The first joints of my 4th and fifth fingers tend to hyperextend when I play. Any suggestions or exercises to unlearn this?
ah yes! Etude 25 no.2! I always use this song to explain why proper technique is, well proper! You can't expect yourself to play this without proper wrist and elbow movement. You need to set yourself up to play the next segment before you've even reached it!
EDIT: i love nocturnes, sounds like you played Chopin's nocturne in B minor? My favorite though D minor is also an amazing one
Mozart's K 545 is also very revealing in regards to your technique
Not a single dislike on this video. Niice.
Sam Huynh I guess some "bright" person who think they know better had to change that :)
I have never had formal training and so I developed a habit of playing with flat fingers. Is there a way to improve it now given that I've been playing with flat fingers for 8-9 years now. :/
What about the wrists? My students’ weight naturally falls on their palms so their palms touch the piano a lot. I thought maybe the wrist should be flexible but should return about the same level as the knuckles. I don’t know. Any advice or tips?
Does anyone the names of the Classical songs Josh was playing in this vid?
Very helpful - thank you! What Chopin Nocturne did you play a tiny bit of? It sounds beautiful.
My 8 year old has just started lessons and has a hard time keeping his fingers on the keys but seem to fly in the air. Any advice?
Is it necessary to keep your thumb past your fingers. I've heard it helps your hand loosen up.
What if the piece ends with LH finger 5 forte? Can it be a flat pinky? It would hurt to press down hard on a curved pinky, since mine is long and skinny.
Thanks this video is very helpful! If I'm playing a lot of stretched chords or arpeggios, and need to play straight fingers to reach is that an issue?
Holy crap ,I got an ad for your channel while watching this video. What has RUclips turned in to?
There was a famous jazz pianist named Art Tatum who used a flat finger technique, and he played faster than anyone.
Isnt the lack of arm support super straining after a while? Ive always wondered why pianos dont have like a desk portion before the keys allowing for arm/elbow/wrist support
Great vid! Jazz pianist here, not classically trained, trying to unlearn bad habits. How long roughly does it take to unlearn flat fingers and how would you go about unlearning it. As obvious as it may sound.
what is the nocturne at 3:20 ?
If the piano didn’t fit through the stairs how did it come there at the first place?
asking the real questions
I thought the same thing immediately.
window? balcony?teleportation?
The piano probably came in parts and assembled inside the house...
But later during shifting, they realised that it would be too much work to disassemble the entire piano as compared to carving a part of the stairway out lol...
v gogh luver ye lol tf?
Do you also keep your pinky finger arched while playing a chord?
I have been playing piano for more than 35 years yet my technique is terrible. I've always had flat fingers. Is it too late to change? Plus I have very small hands and have difficulty stretching. I would love to play well but my piano teacher is 92 now and I don't take lessons anymore. Any advice please?
The flat finger technique used for slower more lyrical pieces is the Russian method. Their thought is that when playing these pieces with flat fingers and striking the keys with the pad of the finger rather than the bony end of the finger gives the music a smoother, sweeter more lyrcial sound.
People who are stronger with larger hands and frames will tend to flatten the hand out as they stretch for longer spans while maintaining volume. Once properly trained, curved to flat as needed seems to be the norm. Not surprised this is labeled "the russian method".
Great video! I heard that flat fingers are more commonly used for pieces with more black notes. Does anyone have a take on this?
I have no idea, but it makes sense. It's hard to get those black note chord jumps with curved fingers because you have a smaller surface area.
I didn’t know this was a thing. Naturally my fingers would curve if I put them on a piano. I don’t play at all. But I just didn’t think there was an issue with this. But I guess it would be the same for any instrument. Some people can just naturally learn some things a little easier.
How did you get the piano in, in the first place? Get vid TY
What is the song at 04:02? It sounds beautiful and I can’t understand what he says
Yes it's Jeux d'Eau by Ravel
My pinky sometimes flares out. It's kinds annoying
what nocturne was that?
Does anyone have advice for hypermobile joints that collapse upward when pressing a key?
How do you mean?
wtf
Didn’t Horowitz play very fast with flat fingers?
Fa && yes, he must have had extremely strong, muscular hands.
Not really, old Horowitz did because of the age, but he had always semi curved fingers
Yeah but Horowitz was an alien so.....
Fa && That’s only an illusion. Slow motion footages of Horowitz showed that he actually played with curved fingers....
It's like the curved pencil thing if you move it really fast it looks curved even though it's flat. Horowitz was the same he looked flat even though he was curved because he moved so fast. Er.... or something.
what's the name of the nocturne Chopin you played ? :D
It’s op 48 no 2, little late response but hey hopefully you see this
i have 2 questions: 1. at 3:20 which Chopin Nocturne was that? very nice.
2. I watched your Chopin Black key etude video and you said you use flat fingers for the last part right before the octaves. But here you say we should use curved. So that was just an exception? Because I do agree the technique you showed there is MUCH easier to grab the black keys. could not do that with curved haha
Josie Lau The Chopin nocturne was Op 48/2, in f sharp minor.
The Etude section you specified would be an exception, yes.
+Josie Lau Great question Josie. Yes...I use flatter fingers on long passages of black keys as well to help with accuracy. If it's just one or two black keys, I'll probably stay curved, but in cases like Etude Op.10 No.5, I generally play a bit flatter
Beethoven Sonata Quasi una fantasia Movement 1 ...needs to be played with flat fingers to bring out the tone.
I see that Josh emphasizes gaining strength in the "fingers" whereas when looking at what I feel is the best Russian method, sound comes from the shoulder-arms-fingers as one unit and does NOT emphasize fingers separately. The latter method avoids injuries and emphasizes the "quality" of sound. Notice is the first very fast playing that Josh executes in the piece he demonstrates in this video. It's phenomenal to anyone that a pianist has mastered technique enough to play all of the notes at a fast tempo. HOWEVER, with all due respect, as a pianist myself, they dynamics of loud and soft and crescendo and decrescendo were totally missing. It was a mish-mash of "loud playing." And I don't think one can say Josh was just "demonstrating" curved fingers and not paying attention to the expressive value which is the heart of music. A musician should be taught to ALWAYS feel and express, while at the same time, learning and perfecting technique.
One example of the Russian method is Ilinca Vartic from the Piano Academy (she has videos on RUclips). I signed up for a month of her
lessons and found they are excellent for beginners only, I would say, which I am not. Beyond that, she hasn't put in the time to showcase enough videos worth the cost for a more advanced piano player. But the point I'm illustrating now is that she has learned the excellent Russian method.
Many people have achieved superb technique, in the sense of playing all of the right notes. Yet how many have learned the EXPRESSIVE value of piano is most important. And how many who have learned the "old" western method of strengthening fingers through exercises avoid strain and injuries? I have heard recordings of Josh's nice expressiveness but I don't feel his method of getting there is best. And I feel that even more emphasis on the sound quality would be even more helpful to his career successes. He started at age four and I don't know whether Josh has or does at times experience the strain of having emphasized finger action, as compared to involving the whole body and dynamics which highlight ergonomics of the body and healthfulness?
Best wishes to all.
Josh, you are stating that the Chopin Etude you play at 0:58 has to be played with curved fingers. But I think I see that you use a nearly flat 5th finger when you play it. Watching a video of myself I realize that I am just doing the same!! I think this indicates that we have to think more differentiated about the curved/flat finger subject. In my experience the intervalls between the single notes that have to be played, influences pretty much the curving grade of the fingers and likewise does the combination of black and white keys. Think about Chopin etude op.10 no.1 C major. Real fast 16th notes there. Flat fingers when playing the first 2-3 tones, then curved fingers when moving up to the next octave and then flat fingers again and so on. A pulsing, opening and closing hand alternating from curved to flat fingers. What do you think about this approach to the subject of curved/flat fingers? Anyone else? I got really happy when I found someone like Josh Wright who does state that something like the use of flat fingers does exist :)
Watch Horowitz! Mind you he was more than exceptional.
Horowitz, of course I agree, he is a good example. He was exceptional. He played with flat fingers and with curved fingers just according to the technical needs of a passage/style. Yet it feels for me that all the piano teachers out there teach strictly curved fingers right from the first lesson. I have concerns about this approach because my experience, especially with young students, shows that their hands/fingers need some weeks (or months) to adapt before they can curve their fingers tensionless. I am looking for teachers that do experience the same. Are you by coincidence one of them?
03:04 what is the name of this piece of Shubert ?
Sonata in A minor D. 784
What piano is this?
My fingernail bed does not physically allow me to play vertical on the piano unless I want finger nail clicks. I think flat and tug is just fine, personally, but as a teacher, if they have the ability, I'd recommend as curved as you can get...unlucky for me its not in my cards...but I can also get by just fine with the flats
I think at the end of the day, people have different hands and fingers...id rather someone play without tension than force a technique that isn't natural with their body
Does anyone know which nocturne that is at 3:15?
Op 48 Nr 2
'Moment and Arm" ohysics concept
Why is there a black and white effect
Vladimir Horowitz (bless him) : 8:30 to 9:30 ruclips.net/video/XhnRIuGZ_dc/видео.htmlm30s can anyone explain how he can have such a light touch when his fingers are all flat ?
I'm not anywhere near qualified to join this discussion but for what it is worth: Somebody told me that Horowitz had his pianos regulated very light and with a shallow depth. I was also told that other people found his piano hard to control!
Why none comments about the face at 0:56
Lol
Ahahahha ma che è quello di leone il cane fifone
@@CRIZIETTA ahahah era una cosa che avevo completamente dimenticato
2:11 song?
Happy Chopin etude in F minor op 25 no 2
Wow this is so old it’s in black and white
How stupid are you?
@@miomio4089 brooo it was a joke
@@libertybiberty8182 I see 👀
@@miomio4089 hahaha you’re good. I’ve done that a couple of times before lol
Yeah it's physically correct
Use color damn it
Horowitz is master Flat Fingers))
Zom
I have a question:
Art Tatum played with flat fingers, interesting... Horowitz played with flat fingers, Glenn Gould played with flat fingers, Thelonious Monk played with flat fingers, and they all played so greatly... Nowadays piano teachers are disgusted by the unorthodox technique known as flat fingers
Why?
+Simon Hölldorfer I think it's because you have to learn both ways, and many students are lazy and just play flat. There are definitely uses for both approaches, and I use both in my playing. For me (this is just my opinion) I generally play more curved and compact on fast passages, as long as they're not really spread out in the hand. I use flatter fingers for more expressive, lyrical passages
Josh Wright is it okay that all of my fingers except my pinky are curved?
Now there’s no such thing as a three knuckler.
I can’t be the *ONLY* one who watched this too see if curved or strait fingers are better for Fortnite.
I thinks flat LOOKS better then curved. lol
The reasoning is completely flawed, as he doesn't demonstrate a natural way for using flat fingers. flat fingers. You don't use flat fingers if you need to use a lot of force and movement. But in a more static position,flat fingers is vastly superior.
Teach more and play less please. We know you can play so you don't have to show it off. lol
OmgLoLw2gLuvUidkROFL he teaches a ton fuck off
You fuck off, moron. He talks too much about himself, his students, & plays pieces that have nothing to do with the piece he's supposed to be teaching. He plays them fast to let you know how wonderfully he plays, which is unnecessary. He's a show off, and that's my opinion; if you don't like it, TOUGH! I have the 1A right to express my opinion whether you like it or not. So fuck off!
+OmgLoLw2gLuvUidkROFL In my opinion you a pile of shit but thats just my opinion :)