Solar Meltdown
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- Lord Almighty Feel my temperature rising
Higher 'n higher It's burning through to my soul
Girl, girl, girl, girl You gonna set me on fire
My brain is flaming I don't know which way to go
-- Elvis Presley
[ Sea Chest Foundation Store ]
svseeker.etsy.com
[ Support Seeker via Pateron ]
/ svseeker
[ More ]
Volunteer goo.gl/Lo1p6y
About Us: www.svseeker.com/wp/sv-seeker-...
Facebook Group / svseeker
Blog: www.svseeker.com/wp/blog/
[ Music ]
"Trickin Pickin" performed by Doug Waterman
Please always use ferrules when clamping stranded wires. otherwise wou will create a fire hazard. the strands deform under pressure over time and mive and become lose, that increases the resistance in the connection and drives up the temperature, which in turn increases the resistance again. only exemption is if you use WAGO or similar connectors that are speciffically designed to work without ferrules.
This is absolutely correct. Also when you don't use ferrules, and the repeated heat cycles cause the lugs to get loose, as you tighten them under a preventive maintenance program, you can end up cutting the individual stands. I have pics of this somewhere.
@@EnvirotekCleaningSystems For the short runs of a few inches to the connector block I'd make some copper bus bars with heatshrink covering the not terminal area. You can even use a fatter bus bar than will fit the contact & file down just the end to fit to drop less power & get the heat away from the breakers & spread out. Less surface area to oxidise as well.
@@chrisharvie-smith486 Yeah, that is a great idea.
There are many ways to start a fire - this is one of them...
Most of the other way are a hell of a lot easier than this.
@@SVSeeker its still a way to possible catastrophe. Put the ferrals with noalox
@@earlwright9715 ruclips.net/video/tKo8oC0LHMU/видео.htmlsi=118Y9_je1sNKacyG
@@SVSeeker Incredible
@@kevint1910 Hi Mom.
As a UK sparky....I'm covering my eyes!...just listening...just listening!
🙈can never be unseen
Wire ferrules- tinned copper wire- soldered ends- glue filled heat shrink tubing- dielectric grease??? 😂
As a UK electrical engineer, I'm doing the same.
The best way to cook ye cables is no tubes on the connections and bad connection , ask any welder 👍🏻
MCBs are only rated to 70 Celsius. 158 Fahrenheit.
I used to think that once the boat was in the water the videos wouldn’t be as interesting or as frequent. How wrong was I about that!
So true. I thinnk a boat is never really finished.
Never really finished. That is true. But we are ready for a long shakedown run.
You might like to redo the wire ends, just buy a packet of copper/silvered FERRULES ... Amazon they sell them. You already have the hydraulic hand crusher for the job, can save chopping off bits of wire trying to make things fit and those messy wire splays its hard to avoid. I did what you did then saw it done properly ... took me half a day to redo 14 batteries (X2 pos/neg) and all the joints in between, I am told it reduces burning/heating under load because its a full on better stable joint. I do enjoy these videos ...thanks
Agreed. Tightening lugs onto bare stranded wire can result in strands loosening over time, pulling away, and creating more heat in the strands that are left connected. Starting the cycle again, until something gives and melts (or worse, catches fire). Get some Ferrules for the 4AWG wires.
Thanks Doug 👍
One day a few years ago my local Walmart had a bin of those white plastic cutting boards on clearance for 0.50$ each. I have a stack of 80+ left in my garage today 😂 I use them for all kinds of mounts and brackets in electrical projects!
If you dont like commercial wire ferrules, use your hydraulic hose press and right diameter copper pipe.
The commercial ferrules are rather thin.
@@SVSeeker They are thin because they need to deform easily to conform to the connector they are in.
@@SVSeekerthat is intentional they aren't a lug, just a mechanism to keep all the strands tight. Using flexable cables like those under a screw terminal just spreads the strands meaning you only clamp a portion cutting down the effective area of the cable, in simple terms the same as using a much smaller cable hence why even through they were tight everything overheated
Doug to the rescue, building it yourself you know what you’ve used
Those breakers (dz47z-125) are going to burn again. They're not DC rated. They are not designed to quench a DC arc. They are designed for zero crossing free air arc quench with AC frequency. You're putting damaged AC rated breakers back into service for a DC application. At best, all you have is a disconnect, not a breaker.
As soon as you possibly can, change them out for something more appropriate.
Why are you using such large cabling? 4/0 single tray 3% drop should be good for nearly 200A at 60C temp. You have tiny wires going into your solar charge controllers - which means it should be high voltage in. Why are you not taking advantage of the HV PV by physically locating the charge controllers as close as possible to the battery bank? There's a lot going on here that seems unusual.
Maybe you should do your research before offering advice?
The dz47z-125 breakers are rated for DC, up to 1000V. I think the mail problem here is the lack of ferrules. At least here in Europe you never see fine-stranded copper wire on a professional install without ferrules.
Nice work Captan, there is sense of freedom to get your power from the sun, no one can shut off.
Why is it the freedom loving conservatives seem to hate solar power then?
The power of DC electricity, the cable you showed, was well cooked. It's good to see you can produce enough juice where you don't have to run the auxiliary unless it's necessary.
I know that sometimes when a cable is too thick to fit in a terminal its common to cut off some strands but this is not really recommended in high current applications. You can get some pin connectors which will crimp to your too fat cable and provide a solid copper "pin" that will fit properly in your breaker/lug. If everything is rated properly then you should avoid any heating
You make absolutely get content.... Thanks
Doug,
Its time to improve the terminations.
Lugs & Bootlaces are not just for good looks.
Loose terminations = Heat and Corrosion.....
I would redesign to include room for larger junction boxes with room for airflow or a heatsinked back panel. The closer you can install your batteries to the controllers the better to reduce cable sizing where possible - Low voltage and resistance are your enemy when dealing with DC.
I know you know this and I know you know better but I don’t think you respect it enough to do better.
Many breakers are not rated for fine-stranded wire without ferrules...
With that fine strand hi-flex wire you really need ferrules on the ends.
Could also try ferrules?
Don't know for 0000
Good catch, boy that copper cable cost a bundle.
Looks like you should be good to go now. 👍🏼
@@wheel2keel There is. Sure aint most common size but i Bet that would help a bunch.
@@jrt2924typically I use ferrules for control circuits but not 00 or 0000
Tkzz for sharing.,.,.,peace
Yay uploads
Added post watching video: That breaker is toasted Doug. Replace it. That much heat where the plastic has turned black is going to damage the internals. When in doubt on over current protection devices (breakers and fuses), always replace. I am sure that it was in the list you had in your parts to order. Should be fine to run it in the mean time, but long term its lifespan has definitely been shortened from decades to less than a year of reliability. The cutting board in the electrical box wasn't the best solution long term. The plastic of a cutting board has no fire retardants in it and the melting temperature is a bit low for it, so if things get spicy again in there, instead of a melted mounting panel, you could get a fire and burn up your wiring and breakers, causing dead shorts (fire's flames are conductive, by the way), leading to equipment damage.
OK Doug, here is what I would have done as a professional electrician and yes, this is for marine applications and on a budget, but it is for reliability as the focus for critical systems and to protect expensive equipment. It is more that you might think is needed, but this is what it will take to prevent this problem from happening again in the future. This is all before watching the video.
Step 1: re-do all of the wattage and amperage calculations in case you got them wrong. Include that the system is running at 110+ F in that box in your calculations and de-rate your wiring as is appropriate. You have had some hot days on the boat and the box doesn't have active cooling for it. Ambient where you are has had 100+ F for several days I am sure with it being Florida, so you need to factor that into your design. A good design rule of thumb for what you are trying to design here would be the ambient temperature that it is going to run at in the tropics at the highest (110+ F) and then another 10 to 15 degrees for aging of the wire over time and a fudge factor for thing aging over time and getting extra hot on a few days or weeks over the life of the system. You can look up how to de-rate wire amperage carrying capacity online. You probably don't have to go thinker, but you might need to choose a different jacket of higher quality for inside the box where things get toasty.
Step 2: I would replace the short wires in that box and cut back 2 to 12 inches of wire going into the box to get fresh copper and insulation that hasn't been fried by the heat and oxidized the copper strands. I would tin the tips of the wire with solder completely (might need a torch for this if you don't have a soldering gun and use a wet rag to protect the jacket from the heat) and, if possible, get some ferrules soldered onto the ends of the wires. The ferrules need to be made out of either silver or marine grade stainless steel. Any other metal is going to cause the same problem you have here and that especially includes those brass connectors I have seen in your solar/batter/generator system. Replace the oversized connectors like you planned. Use dielectric grease (just a little dab will do ya) to keep moisture out of the connections to keep them from getting oxidation in them.
Dielectric grease should be used on all electrical connections on Seeker, especially ones that run high current. It is expensive to buy a tube of it, but it takes very little of it to do a connection. Just a thin coating on the surface of the male end before installing is all. One standard tube could probably do all of Seeker's wiring and still have leftovers for maintenance. You should also look at tinning the ends of all large gauge wires on Seeker, along with putting the heat shrink with adhesive on it to seal out moisture from the inside of the wires before you end up having to rewire every single one of those very expensive, thick wires. The corrosion will creep up them from the ends and ruin them. You don't have to put connectors on them if they are occasional use cables since the tinning will be good enough, but connectors soldered on with heat shrink with internal adhesive is the standard practice for marine applications since it keeps out the moisture and even water, so it would let you have flooding in the engine room not lead to needing to re-wiring the engine room when you got back to port.
If I was still living near where you are anchored, I would come aboard and help with the work, but I am on the other side of the country now, so the trip is a bit beyond my means right now.
Very through advice and possibly the longest comment i have ever read on RUclips. 9/10
Very cool you manage to get these projects done on the water like that. Seems so difficult to get supplies. Enjoy it out there
It's not that bad. But I have my truck at the marina and I have learned most of the supply houses in Pensacola.
Doug, if tinned wire isn't feasible, glue lined heat shrink can get a good moisture/salt tight seal between the insulation and the lug. A few more ABC fire extinguishers wouldn't hurt. Some lawyer named Murphy might sneak aboard and set the cabin on fire when you're rounding the horn.
Doug,
Someone else with real knowledge will tell you this I suspect. But that blackness inside your wires is copper oxidation being heated and carbonized.
I experienced difficulty starting an engine years ago. Changed the starter, helped a little, change the battery, that helped a bit.
Finally changed the wires, solved all of the issues.
I checked the ohm resistance and found there was a staggering difference in resistance between the old and new.
Resistance creates heat which tends to create more resistance and more heat.
As it was explained to me, electricity flows over the wire as much as through it. Having all that oxidation and carbon on the surface prevents the flow, requiring more amperage to conduct.
I was told boats use tinned wire to eliminate that oxidation/corrosion.
Don't know though if it matters much.
Everything wears out eventually, even wire I guess.
Thanks for bringing us along.
As a former electrician, this is correct. You need to seal out the salt water air in marine applications, especially for larger wires. You can use tinned wires or you can use soldered on connectors with silicone jacketing and water impermeable heat shrink that includes an internal glue. My classmate that was from the Coast Guard that was retraining from enlisted to a Warrant Officer by going through the same industrial electrician program I was talked about this when we discussed wiring in extreme environments to ensure reliability, like for automated irrigation that uses dissolved fertilizer or there is salt water present because of the industrial process in that plant or you're on a ship at sea.
Another thing you really need to be using on your connectors while in such an environment, especially for high amperage applications, is dielectric grease. It keeps the moisture out of the physical connections, thus keeping them from getting corrosion that will cause resistance, which causes heat, which causes more corrosion, and into a vicious cycle. You have exactly that happening on Seeker with these connectors.
@@KnightsWithoutATablealso conductive (as opposed to dielectric) greases in dissimilar metal joints that can't be sealed like a terminal block. Conductive in the joint, dielectric on the joint.
@kingrpriddick yes. Doing this is what you do for this type of connection. For a tight plastic connector like a Duetz connector, you can use just the dielectric grease since the pins are protected by the connector, and you are just sealing the connector using the grease.
@kingrpriddick only compatible metals are used in electrical connections. This is why aluminum triplex only goes into stainless steel connectors and aluminum wiring for housing was abandoned since there were too many people trying to join it to copper wiring. It tended to cause fires.
@@KnightsWithoutATable compatible metals still corrode faster than identical metals, that's why there are products like oxgard and penitrox
Hello Doug! I have watched since beginning of journey. Haven't left many comments, but today. The way of saying "build it twice, build it right" (or something on that direction). In Finland we are bit more modest, "kolmas kerta toden sanoo" which is literally translated "the third time tells the truth". But more accurate translation maybe would be "third time is the charm". Any finns yet participated on building? Haven't my self noted yet...
Doug. Please. For the Love of God!!!!!! USE use some G.D. Glue filled wire ferrules with the tinned copper heat shrink tubing, and soft edge dielectric flux pellet's, in the cereal outlet next to the raisin bran marshmallow wheelbarrow. Ya Ding Dong.
Yes the black wire is copper oxide it's not a conductor and formed buy copper reacting with oxygen in the atmosphere the heat has probably seeded up the oxidation. Were the black copper cable the negatives ? Negative copper wires seem to oxidise quicker.
Tinned cable and hermetically sealed connectors will work alot better.
If you notice the screws that clamp down the wire are only making a small amount of contact with the wire.
If you put lug's on the end of the wires and soldered them into the lug's it would make a better connection.
Kind of like the lugs for automobile battery cables.
The arcing that is causing the burnt spot on the end of the wire is also causing less contact and starving the amount of current getting through the wire to that screw down connection causing the heating problems.
I don't think you necessarily have to replace the block with a smaller one.
I know you will figure it out.
And causes expansion and contraction with the load , causeing heating and burning
Good job captain
When you were lowering the dingy and the winch or whatever it was started "squealing", I had to pause the video because I though one of my Huskies was howling in the next room. 😂
Cutting boards are fantastic for creating things ! Cheap from Swedish Ikea, you get 1,5mm cutting bord, I use em as separating material sheet between dissimilar metals onboard
your problem with burn brakers is connetcion - put a little metal tube on this tiny copper cables and this solve problem !!!!!!!!
* breakers
*connection
*lube
FFS my man…
They are called wire Ferrules! Tinned copper or silver Ferrules and tinned copper wires combined with solder and glue infused heat shrink! Best stuff for long term use at sea! I slide my ferrules on and tighten the bolt so that it leaves a crimp in the ferrule deep enough to get all of the threads of the junction connector then solder the ferrule on and cap the end with glue filled heat shrink sealing the wire and ferrule together. Finish it off with a dollop of dielectric grease and it’s done for many years!
Or just wrap the tri rated cable ends with copper wire if your not lugging it.
If there was a fire in the engine room and it was blocking the compaino way as it was hydrolic oil and gas cylinders and diesel on fire could people escape the cabins?
Go out the escape hatch into the pilothouse or one of the two portholes into the water. But I will want to know why you were so stupid as to ignore the fire alarm.
Dc doesn't mess around...
Have you set up a solar dump load so you aren't wasting solar production? Victron stuff makes is fairly easy to set up.
Thats so awesome your living this journey.. Youre living the dream. Here I am sitting in the NOC at onegas monitoring servers..
Cool. Do you know I was a DBA on the 15th floor at ONEOK?
@@SVSeeker yea thats what actually brought me to your youtube, seen a news article. Thats so cool. Onegas is the former child company of oneok, im sure some of your former colleagues are with us now and vice versa.. I love this company, and from what i hear oneok is the same.
@@SVSeeker i work hand in hand with our dba's here in the noc.. currently learning redhat
Would crimping the ends prevent this from happening?
Certainly would not hurt but letting it get hot once in loose lugs sort of starts the ball rolling and it was old cable to begin with.
for the connections going into the terminals where you have the multi stranded wires, id recommend using pin crimps/bootlace crimps it will give you a lot better connection
Make sure your using the combiner box to get the highest voltage your system can handle from the panels. This will lower the amps and significantly reduce the heat. I have 8kw of solar panels and 40kwh of battery at 54.6vdc
There's me thinking it was about the northern lights !
We in the Uk was treated to a great Aurora Friday.
I didn't realize that a wire could get fried if the receptacle for it was too large. Good thing to know.
Just started with a bad connection and slowly spread from there.
surprised your running 4/0... I wired my truck with superflex 00... awesome stuf... pricey... but worth the exapense.... don't forget to check your resistance across the circut. it does reduce losses but also heat. 😅
"It used to be a cutting board." As an amateur radio operator who builds his own antennas, I've uttered that exact phrase many, many times!
Ever thought of putting some temp monitoring (thermocouple) on power connections? I'm considering it for a future solar project so I get overtemp warnings before things get super hot. That black stuff on the copper looked like it might have been from the insulation being cooked.
No. I simply touch stuff to see how it's doing. : )
Id recommend trying noalox and using ferrules.
Really too it your motto to heart Steve. Ive been a procrastinator on my projects for a decade. But last 3months ive rebuilt an entire 1997 subaru. Feels good to make progress. What'd you work on today?
Awesome!
Ferrals and maybe noalox
When it comes to high current connections, it’s always important to have wide and firm “gas tight” contact to the cable to keep the connection reliable and keep out water and other contaminants. Your good wire appears to have had a good clamp force, but only a very small area of contact which means that the wire would eventually burn as well. I suggest a crimp on connector on the wire end and then a bolt down terminal block. I also suggest soldering after crimping. I’m not fond of the European style terminal blocks that crimp raw wire under a screw, especially with stranded wire. You can crimp on and solder ferrules that alleviate somewhat the problem bare wires but don’t put solder under the clamping screw.
You need to put your panels in a series and get up to 48vdc, the wire sizes can handle the load better
I was under impression "oxi guard" or similar stuff is less about conductivity is it is preventing corrosion which hinders conductivity.
Well, the stuff I have says it improves conductivity.
Also use anti corrosion paste
how many amps are running through those wires ?
Patients is a virtue possess it if you can often found in women seldom found in man
Lol what were the dolphins doing? Splash competition?
“You cannot possibly please everybody, you are not a pizza”
Wow… how close was this to turning into fire?
Nice tail tap dance! Or was it a flert? Any biologists?
Edit: 7:27
@7:47 I thought my cat was screaming lol.
Some days it sounds like wolfs howling. : )
When are your going to start cruise for science?
Next is a long shakedown and then we will be ready. Got to wait on the Captains License to come through too.
Yes those connections once they're heated are continuing build of resistance, I tried to explain this to some yacht owners they seem to think that this shouldn't occur but it does once a junction is heated heated it must be dealt with thanks for sharing keep up the awesome work hope to see you later this season on the coast as we begin to head south we should pass by at some point
That's exactly what I think this did. I was not kind to that cable when it was a welding cable so it had a head start. : )
Fucking use wire ferrules
Fucking be nice dick face.
Why are you fucking swearing? 😂
Doug; telling forklift batteries how to behave.
Also, I think Doug is one of the kindest and most down to earth guys on RUclips
Sir, you require ferrules.
Surprised you don't listen to comments from people with more experience , I thought you were all about learning .
I've been surprised how many people think they are God's Gift to mankind who actually are just full of shit. That's not you is it?
@SVSeeker you sound hostile?. Are you still having fun.
@@smca7271 You sound like a dick. I'm don't have fun with dicks. : )
@@SVSeeker pleasant sailing
Too many hot pockets.
Seems you have an unlimited supply of everything… who cares what breaks? , you just keep fixing it. What ever happened to the original purpose of this junk boat? , we yet to see anything. Keep up the great work selling the garb(age).
You will never achieve your goals without patience.
Just keep an eye out for that copper coated aluminum crap. It's junk.
As a sparky my best recommendation is - spend the money and hire a marine electrician. If you are insured I just hope your insurance company never sees this video.
Absolutely not. Worst advice ever. People need to learn to do this shit themselves. There are plenty of idiots that don’t know shit and will call you.
And insurance is for people with too much money and two little skill.
@@SVSeeker well lad you just keep doing what your doing and when your boat burns down around you for simple fact you screwed up you will never be able to say you were not warned.
@@gregharding7329 Oh for fuck sake. Pussies like you have been predicting doom for decades now. Grow a pair. ruclips.net/video/X29lF43mUlo/видео.htmlsi=CKqepJWRca2OSZKw
@@SVSeeker That the best you got sunshine. Someone gives you real world advise that actually knows what they are talking about and you talk insults. As soon as you commented and I quote "And insurance is for people with too much money and two little skill." it told me all I want to know about you.
Might want to look into aluminum wire for that to handle the heat and power
Nooo .especially NOT in a marine application 😮
Noooooooo, would be way worse.
did anyone ever tell you that you look exactly like craig venter