Horizontal Long Beehive Design with option to stack 8-frame supers
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- This beehive design is a blending of many designs that I saw on youtube videos. The design is for a horizontal long beehive with stacked supers and a feeder shim design from Frederick Dunn's youtube channel. The design has many advantages.
I was a beekeeper for years, but have not worked with bees for 20 years now. I worked on the Big Island of Hawaii with Kiawe hone and in Oregon with Fireweed honey at high elevations. I miss beekeeping. Yet I can enjoy it virtually through designing a hive. 
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ametuer beekeeper here and an engineer. You did a remarkable job with your design. As with a few I feel its is over designed and you overlooked a few simple things.
1. entrance on both sides. Bad for the keeper{working in the launch path) and bad for the bees in a northern climate which I assume you must be since your focus in video was hive warmth. The entrances should always be on the sunny side for winter(same side).
2. feed boxes, nix them. make your box 4 -8 frames longer to hold frame feeders. much cheaper and keeps the food closer to the hive heat. its cheaper, more effiecient and fewer parts to deal with..
The gem of this was your super placement, allowing the long to feed and supers are profit
Nice graphics! I hope you put it into practical testing soon. I think you'll find the stacked boxes to be confusing for the colonies and of course, adds lifting to the management requirements. You may have a partition opportunity and can then use this system for several colonies that would benefit from community warmth in winter. So, alternating entrances (if used as a bee hotel) would be alternating sides 108 deg. I enjoyed your mods on the feeder shims and appreciate all of your design efforts. In cold climates, the sawdust pillows tend to become soaked, which defeats their insulating properties. I appreciate all the references to my videos :) looking forward to your progress and of course, I've subbed!
Thanks for insights Fred. The bees could fill out the bottom box just fine with no need for supers above. There is the option of just putting on one super to fill and block the second super over the hive. That keeps the roof level. I wonder if the sawdust gets soaked because airflow coming in from the outside is not controlled. You put the steel pad in the vent holes to reduce inflow of cold air. I would also add shredded paper over the sawdust to reduce movement of cold air. Then I put insulation over the shredded paper so that the ceiling over the sawdust does not get cold to form condensation that would "rain" down on the sawdust. Then again, I am listening to your recent vids where you say that upper ventilation may not be desirable at all during winter. Maybe the key is to close the vent from the cluster to the feeder shim. This cuts off air flow between the cluster and the feeder shim allowing the moisture to stay for the cluster. Then close off the feeder shim to outside cold air. Then the sawdust should stay dry giving the bees a warm ceiling to radiate their warmth. ........ I am preparing a video using this design for 4 nucs. I will incorporate more of your ideas.
. Ventilation shouldn't be needed, if you add some insulation to offer significant protection from heat, and especially from cold. The bees prefer an environment where they control the airflow. And multiple studies have shown they prefer a CO² density that would be enough to make most humans sick over time. Somewhere in the ballpark of about 1.1-1.5% total atmosphere being CO². Everybody is always gaga about "bees don't need insulation, they need lots of ventilation"... which is pretty well polar opposite of their nature. Along with hives that are in direct sunlight. I was watching a video yesterday about a man's "solar wax melter from scrap"... he used an old hive body that was warped, an a scrap window pane he picked up somewhere. And he mentions that he had done a test of how hot it gets a few times before, using his laser read thermometer, he'd open it up about halfway through and hit the inside with the thermometer and it ranged between 290-360F... think about that for a minute. A hive body in direct sunlight, with just a simple pane of glass, in place of a solid cover, and it got hot enough to slow roast a meal.
You look at bee trees and bees natural habitats... there are some common characteristics. Typically shaded or shaded for the hottest parts of the day. Thick hardwood or a rock formation surrounding the colony (lots of thermal mass. Thermal mass is great for tempersturd stability and energy efficiency)...
I've had a a similar idea using Lazutin, Layens, or Top bars; with 2×4 frame, R13 on the walls, R30 on the roof, no ventilation... and see how it goes.
The moisture in the hive isn't the "problem". In fact, it's hypothesized that higher humidity and higher CO² could potentially help inhibit mite reproduction, while encouraging bee reproduction. The bees need around a minimum of 55% relative humidity at 95F to raise healthy brood. If you make a well insulated hive with no vents, and throw some temp and humidity sensors in there, you'll likely find they tend to hold the humidity at 67%. So you want the moisture; you just want it condensing on the walls of floor, rather than above the bees, or on the comb. That, and anywhere that moisture can escape so can heat. Heat is costly. Honey is not liquid gold. It's liquid coal. And the bees use it to burn for everything they need. Whether it's to fetch water, travel for more nectar, clean up the hive, or produce heat. Look at some of the videos and Webinars of Etienne Tardif.
I know a gentleman who keeps his hives insulated for most of the year; and weights them at the first frost and before the first nectar flow. He said they typically use 6-8lbs in a winter. And he lives in North PA.
It's a very well thought out design. And very similar of my ideas for a hive that houses 4 or 5 colonies that pool heat during winter, and have 4 colonies helping maintain a stable temp during summer.
But I would reccomend trying out 1 insulated condensing hive first and see how they fare. Before deciding which final design to go with.
Search "faf-insulatd Langtroth hive" and read through that experiment. It was a citizen scientist project with 2 identical packages from the same supplier. The only major being condensing hive vs standard/typical Langstroth.
I like the overall project and thank you for the narration. You are trying to keep all the options open for every climate. I think there are issues that can only be worked out actually building and using a prototype for a couple of years. You have a few aspects of a Dartington Hive from the UK. His roof is split, so half the hive can be configured with a second or thirds layer of boxes when the other side buildup lags. So you should plan on spacing for a full excluder (no holes/screened vent hole), where only an empty box is above. I would love to see it build and see quarterly evaluation updates. I built my long hive this summer and am looking forward to using it in Spring 2021.
Intriguing video, and comes at a time when I am committing to making a horizontal hive for use next spring. Regarding your attempt to slow down the movement of cold air in the feeder shim during winter; you mention filling the holes with a steel wool type of material. Would partially closing the vent gates not accomplish that? This is very impressive work.
This is a good design. I would like to see this built and put into practice.
your subtle additions are what progression is all about. to increase the amount of honey i would place the 4 supers on the bottom making 4 colonies. keep the queen excluder's in place and reposition the large hive body on top. now you have 4 colonies working together instead of 2. you will be amazed to see the amount of honey produced.
I like what you are onto...but...How would you lift the heavy top off without a crane though? Or a buddy to help?
If you have one entrance at the front and one at the back which ever way the beekeeper stands he is going to stand in front of one or the other.
I have a horizontal hive that i built... it serves the bees well....this is way overthought....first, way to much ventilation....The bees propolized all vent holes on my horizontal..and if you think about it... natural behive do not have vent holes...that being said...i do like your design to have entrances in the middle, so as to share heat in the winter...my entrances are on the end...so i to can have 2 hives, or one large...
I would be very interested in getting the specs for this project you have. I am a new beekeeper and a disabled veteran and I really don't like the idea of multiple lifts of a langstroth super. I have spent a few weeks now doing research and this appears to be the most flexible design out there and well thought out.
Look into insulated Layens or Ukrainian or possibly Lazutin. A Lazutin Hive is a long langstroth double deep where the frame is all one piece. So you harvest the frames farthest from the entrance, and leave the honey above the cluster for their winter stores.
The most you'll lift is maybe 20lbs... a lazutin frame can hold around 12-15lbs of honey, plus the weight of the frame and comb. But... you won't be doing that every day or every week, just a Couple times a year. And brood inspections... there's not lifting other than the lid and one frame at a time.
Wooww nice design
Very well thought out design! Have you built one yet? Can't wait to see it in action.
Please build this and show us how well it works for you.
Some interesting ideas here and the presentation is superb. Seems like its trying to be all things to any climate though, but could be easily customized by the end user. For instance, in Texas I might not be so concerned with the cold air traps in the bottom box and might use a ridge and soffit vent design on the roof. The bees control air flow, humidity and convection with their fanning so attempting to micromanage this process for them might be an issue. I leaned how complicated that can be from my designs of humidity control systems for Vivaria. The sawdust filled feeding areas are also the perfect area for fire ant infestation so oil or water baths at the feet might be an idea there. I had previously rejected the idea of stacking boxes on horizontal hives as being counterintuitive...they are meant to reduce the added disruption of lifting boxes for production and inspection. However, i just realized that this might be the answer to my idea of how you could achieve queen rearing in horizontal hives in a manner similar to using a Morris Board. I might be interested in purchasing your plans should you make them available! Nice work!
You make excellent comments. The design can be changed to fit one's climate. About your idea of queen rearing, I also have this stacking design for making 5 or 6 frame nucs. I plan to make a video on that too. The design has spaces for 4 nucs. It is designed for the system of Billy Davis for nucs. You could take off the upper box with the queen in the spring and sell it as a nuc. Then allow the bottom box to re-queen itself. Then do it again to sell 4 more nucs in early summer. Then let the bottom nuc re-queen itself to two boxes for winter. About the air space at the bottom, I am in New Mexico and the dead air space at the bottom is helpful for moving air throughout the long hive. Thanks for the comments. I will get to work on that next video.
So there will be more bee stuff? Your other videos are a bit over my head lol
@@T0tenkampf Yes, I am getting ready more videos for beekeeping. The other videos are economics stuff.
Very nice I like to build one so but 10 frames I have all 10 frames stuff
Bees are going to get congested in there and storm anyways without filling many frames, cause its big enough to loose the queen in.
This doesn't make any sense. There is such a thing as too much space... but have you never seen any of these massive cut outs? Or what about a 30 frame Layens hive? Your statement sounds preposterous. As long as you aren't smoking them until they can't smell anything at all, not even nectar sources, they'll know when they are and aren't queenless. That and if you just eliminate the ventilation, add insulation to protect from hest ND cold, they'll keep the brood and queen near the entrance where the ventilation is. It's when you have ventilation everywhere thst she roams everywhere.
if supers are used ,excluders will need removed for the cluster to be able to access honey stores without letting brood lose heat as the cluster moves up,in cold.with the queen..i like the ideas of 8 frame as im already using them, im using slatted racks too,maybe that could be incorporated?
Yes. Slatted Racks>screened bottoms. The bees are perfectly capable of cleaning out the bottom. If they build some comb down there... meh, oh well.
But slatted racks gives them a little extra space under the brood while also helping them feel like that's the bottom.
Is there a chance they'll build comb down there if there's 2+inch of dead space? Absolutely. But... the bees will do what they want anyway.
Do you have the sketch up for available?
Hey, I really like this design. Could you give me the design on sketch up to make from this cell and thank you
I agrred on some of the comments, it's best to keep it simple. I made a long horizontal hive myself about 2 years ago with a lower sliding bottom box that are divided into 4 separate sliders because my sticky mite sheets are standard sizes. the length of my hive is equivalent to 4 hive boxes side by side, only the side walls are attached with 3 dividers.
Thumbs up for the work you did. My issue is that it's way over designed. There's too much to it.
Have you actually tried this? How was the work getting it together? I particularly like the stand with basically the option to use a mite board.
Agreed...overthought...overdesigned...reinvented wheel that really isn't well thought out by comparison to traditional hives (not comparing to modern box hive nonsense...)...or one could suggest..." analysis paralysis."
@@JayCWhiteCloudboy do I know what you mean by over-engineering and reinventing the wheel. Alone with Analysis paralysis.
But every time someone tells me "don't try to reinvent the wheel" my thoughts are... have you SEEN some of the wheels out there now days? They ain't stone anymore.
Do you have plans available?
Can you addbellow names of materials and size you used and where can we get it ?
WHAT WOULD HAPPEN BOTH BOTTOMS TURN BROOD ONLY JUST USED SUPER TOP BEES WILL NEED EXTRA ROOM KEEP THEM FROM SWARMING.
Can you send me the dimensions of the legs only thanks
Have you found someone in OUR AREA to assist with beekeeping yet? I am a newbie and would love to glean from your knowledge. I am up Hwy 70 a ways from inner city.
Hello Ms MB, It is great to receive your message. I have not found someone here to share beekeeping experiences. I do not live far from you. Do you have bees? How can we meet?
@@Hokuhelecooperative I purchased a year or so ago a Beehive kit from Sam's took it out the box the other day BUT was NOT sure WHERE I wanted to put it up at until this morning. So no on the bees yet because I have learned we have a beetle issue here in our area AND wanted to be well educated on HOW do deal with EVERYTHING BEFORE acquiring some bees. Time is running out so trying to make it happen swiftly. How about the Walmart up this way? Let me know when & we can make it happen...have been out in the yard trying to prepare for some fruit trees. Send me your email & we can go over the details. AND THANKS for replying! Looking forward to beekeeping with you soon.
@@msmb7389 Are you a member of the Beekeepers association? You can send me an email through there. I prefer not to put email here because there are scammers.
@@msmb7389 nmbeekeepers.org/groups/southern-new-mexico-beekeepers/
@@Hokuhelecooperative I understand and am not a member yet. I found YOU while looking on that site and came over here to get in touch with you.
I hope the wind can't blow it over
Not sure if you have kept bees before or done any advanced woodworking...but this is a more "I think" concept than practical design, if I may share that feedback?
Over designed.
@@beebob1279 x 10...and not in concert with traditional (and proven) simple log or basket hives...better for bees...simpler to make...
Nice design. The feeder towers are too complicated. Keep beekeeping simple, not complex.
You've never kept bees.
There so many amatuer errors in this
Would you mind sharing with the class ?
I disagree. I've kept bees for 25 years. The issue with this design is that it's over designed. There is way too much to it.
@@beebob1279 and do people with experience typically over complicate things?
@@Th3_Gaelwell the problem with most beekeepers is that most all of them are "simple common beekeepers" of simple mind, a lack of care, passion, ambition, etc andas so ignorant that they call their boxes "Langstroth" equipment, so ignorant that they don't even know that they're using Root's hives, which h are exactly the "Simple wooden boxes" that Langstroth HATED and mu h to say about. The PDF of The Hive and The Honey Bee 1853 edition is available free online. Give it a read. The hives used today are called "Langstroth" equipment... in spite of being shorter from front to back and not having the longer length frames, in spite of the fact that they are not glass lined, nor doubled walled, in spite of them not having an outter cover that comes all the way down over the sides of the doubled-walled hive to act as a 3rd layer of protection, in spite of not having the funnel shaped "porch" on the front to aid the bees in circulating air.
Are there beekeepers with 20-30 years experience who've "overcomplicated" things and built their own hives? Yes. A guy I know has built his own patent hive, it looks oddball as all get out, but it's worked pretty well.
Just saying... some people are complacent to be stuck in the insanity of doing that same things that have been done the same way for several hundred years with no significant improvement, and getting the same never ending loop of losses around 50%... some people are not satisfied with mundane insanity and seek to find a better way.