Hello Jon, I would definitely love to see a more detailed covering of the wings. That seems to me a more complex/intimidating area to tackle. Thank you so much for the great video series of this build!
Ditto. Just imagine I'm in possession of, say eight and a half, maybe nine thumbs. I have come to enjoy voice over and kind of feel like it's our weekly conversation. Does that sound dumb???
It looks like it's helpful to have a second pair of hands. The wings might prove more difficult. The series is excellent and much appreciated. Only detail the difficult parts or the videos will be too long.
If you can film the covering of one wing? That would be hugely beneficial. I know that would be tough to film. The poly fiber is probably the way I’ll be going for added strength.
I dont think there is a "strength difference" between polly and stewarts. Stewarts is approved to repair polly as far as i know (not much) so tells me their =. Stewarts is just easier to use since its water based
Yes. Please include a step-by-step when you cover the wings. Also, I was wondering why there isn't a bracing framework inside the rudder to make it stronger. Thanks.
Hi. Thanks for the part 35 of the Affordaplane project. This is one aspect of aircraft construction that I have never tackled. As far as which system to use I am going to see if I can stick with the Stewart system because I don't want to wind up like a sprayed roach. From what I've seen in the part 35 I feel confident in covering my project when the time comes. By the way I have discovered that Aircraft Spruce have a branch in Germany, and they stock 6061-T6. That was a big relief to know. Thank you for a wonderful series and I'm looking forward to seeing part 36.
Hi again Jon. It's me again in the above comment. Arthur Southam and not scorla di danza. Or what ever they call their dance school. They hijacked my phone and I didn't see it until it was too late. Sorry about that. I must make shure it does not happen again.
Id like to hear the advantages and disadvantages of each system. If this systems glue can be reactivated with water and or heat, are there any problems that could show up later like direct sunlight on a hot humid day?
Great overview. I started watching this series, off and on, from the beginning with the intention of never building one. Passed my private checkride 15 months ago and was set on starting a zenith 750 cruiser this year. The more I come back to this series, the more I think I should change direction and build an A-plane. Thanks for the video's Jon !!!
FWIW, Dacron, polyester and ceconite are synonymous. Poly-Fiber is a brand name/system of coatings and accessories (see Aircraft Spruce for details). Another step not shown here is the application of finishing tape (aka perimeter tape). It's used over potentially abrading areas like braces, ribs and struts (as well as the perimeter). The _About_ section of my name has a link for an example on my build.
Please consider showing a short demo of all three systems, Poly Fiber, Stuart, and Oratex on a small part, like the rudder, and then move on to whichever choice you make for the larger or finishing portions. Doing on half of the wing as suggested in other comments makes sense, but having some exposure to the actual systems (vs advertiser's demos) would be very helpful.
Great video Jon (if I do say so myself!). Looks like I'll have to come up and spend another week visiting with you to do a demo of covering a wing or another useful component. I'm looking forward to it! If there is any interest we can do a demonstration of Oratex as well to show another alternative.
Jon, great overview. However, I think a bit more detail would be appropriate. For instance, cutting around hinges on 2nd side; setting iron temperature, how to tell how fast to move the iron, tensioning the fabric, and more. Thanks again for doing this! Also, I think it would be worth mentioning that the weight difference across the 25 yards of fabric for the 1.7 oz vs the 2.7 oz fabric would only be about 1.5-2 pounds across the aircraft. If you're trying to make 103 weight, this could be significant, but about double the fabric cost to save just shy of 2 pounds.
Hi Jon. Got your message, thanks a lot. I hope to be going to Bulgaria soon where I will have the space to build an Afordaplane. Here in Italy I do not have anywhere to build. The houses here are like living in a ground floor flat. Thanks again for a most informative series. I will be keeping an eye on things in case you publish something in the meantime. Thank you for the reply. It is one of the few replies I've ever got from anybody. Thanks again. By the way. I'm hoping to get a movement going in Bulgaria for flying, and in particular flying the Afordaplane. Thanks again for the reply, and I hope to send you some ideas regarding the building of the Affordaplane.
Yes I think more detailed steps in covering can be a great help for us never done it before people like me... was surprised you are not using Dacron that’s what the plans call for...
Poly-fiber and Dacron are trade names for essentially the same thing: a special polyester fabric. Like saying you prefer Kleenex as opposed to Scotty tissue !
Hi again Jon.Looking at the covering of the rudder I suspect that the Stewart System would give you a lot more time to get the fabrice on to the frame as it is water based. The fumes given off by the solvents in the Poly System are not only dangerous but flash dry very quickly and the bonding property of the glue could become useless. I am very keen to see the wings been covered as I feel they will require much more skill than the tail section. Hope to see some more videos soon. Thanks for the series so far.
I am enjoying this series. I would like to see as much detail on the processes and covering the other components as you are willing to provide. I would also like some discussion on the merits of each method (quality, strength, long term serviceability, etc.). Please keep up the good work.
Hi once more. Jon, please could you let us know what heat range is used on the iron to bond the material to the frame, and the range to do the final shrink of the fabrice. I have seen on another site where covering of the wing was done, but I don't know what adesive was used. An over view of the covering of the wing should be enough for me, but a step by step might be necessary for some of us when it comes to covering the wing. I'm very fortunate in that I learn through my eyes, but not so good through my ears. I just have to see how to do the task and then I can repeat it like an expert. This is probably why I'm hopeless at learning languages. Thanks again for this series of building the Affordaplane.
Hi Jon. I have some wories about the covering of the wings. The wing is a lot more complex than the tail feathers. I think a step by step video would be of great benefit to most of us builders. Also, after seeing how forgiving the water based Steward system is I think I will be using this system when I finally get to Bulgaria and have somewhere to build the A Plane. I have all your tips of the week so far saved on my laptop, and intend to use them to build my own affordaplane. My main concern with the wing is the getting around the strut attachments. Also Jon, could you advise on any short comings that might happen when covering of the wing with the Steward System, or if it is prfectly OK to use the system throughout. Thanks again for a most informative series of videos. I look forward to seeing part36 soon.
Hi again Jon. Please excuse the mistake I made when I posted my story under S. I lent my laptop to my friend and somehow she got into your web page. Anyway I think I will not require a step by step on covering the wing, but I'm concerned that the wing doesn't have a lower rib. Am I missing something, or will you be fitting the lower rib later? I feel really confident that my project is going to be a success. I have all your videos to refer to if I get stuck. Thanks again for the information so far.
Re: Stewart vs Polyfibre, SS sounds much more friendly, but which lasts longer, which is easiest to remove should re-covering be necessary, and let's not forget price. I suspect no need to go over this again as long as wing seam joining is covered. Cheers Jon!
WRT re-covering... I've never worked with Stewart, but I did strip a plane that had been badly covered with Poly Fiber. It was just a matter of slicing the fabric and pulling it off. Even in the areas that had been glued properly, it came off fairly easily. The hardest part is removing the Poly-Tak residue from the structure. That takes a lot of MEK and many hours of scraping and sanding.
Hi again Jon. The issue that worries me about the covering of the wing is how do you apply the fabric around the strut attachment points. As for the rest of the wing it appears quite straight forward to me. But I'm probably wrong with my assumptions. I'm eagerly waiting to see how you tackle this problem with the strut attachment points. My guess is that you will be covering the bottom section of the wing first and then doing the attachment points and adding the reinforcing patches before covering the top surface of the wing. Am I correct in assuming this? Here is hoping we hear something from you soon, and that the conditions improving there.
Hi Arthur, Yes the struts need to go thru the bottom. You can learn from my mistakes by watching me do this operation! Shouldn't be long before we're back to building this season.
Hello again Jon. Thanks for the reply. The strut connection in the wing has been giving me head aches for a while no. I had the impression that the wing had to be completed brfore connecting the atachments to the wing. I could not figure this out as you would do this. As there is no access access to the quarter inch attachment bolts through the spars. Even though you might install the strut attachments after covering the bottom of the wing how do you inspect the attachments after the wing is completly covered. Been made of steel it would be of great benefit to have inspection hatches on the under side of the wing because steel rusts no matter how well it is painted, and it is important that you are able to keep an eye on these fittings. Electro plating these parts is not an option as hydrogen imbrittlement weakens the plated piece greatly. Cadmeium plating is the only electro plating allowed on aircraft, but from experience I found that it doesn't last. Rust soon sets in. Stainless Steel is also a no no. Although it has a greater tensile strength than ordenary steel it has an alarming fatigue rate. It really doesn't like to be bent. Well that is my issue spelt out. I hope to see how you over came this problem. I'm sure you have this well and truly under control. Thanks again for a most informative series.
What happens next after the outline is glued and ironed? Is the whole surface ironed next? Is it painted or doped with another material? And how does this affect weight if someone is trying to stay within part 103?
Hi Jon. Sorry to hear you are snowed in and cannot carry on with the videos or the Affordaplane. Just a question out of curousity. Can the wings be rigged without them been covered? It is getting a bit boreing looking at part 35 and champing at the bit for part 36, or is it that bad over there as to have stopped production all together? I am very keen to get all your videos on building the affordaplane so as to see the building technics you have employed in building your one. Please let us know of any progress. We can't wait to see your one flying.
Hi Arthur - yes wing rigging should be done before fabric covering. I should be back to building in April. Just too cold to work before then! Over the last couple months have been selecting/ordering the engine and design of the engine mount. Previews of these will be show first to Patreon members.
You mention the Poly system has hazardous components. Might be a good idea to detail those and to indicate the protection needed to use it. Then folks might be able to give you a choice on the method. I build guitars and finish with nitrocellulose lacquer. Only PPE needed is a respirator I can buy cheaply at Harbor Freight. Perhaps that's all that's needed for the Poly system.
@@ulbuilder You have to consider the total cost of covering. Oratex doesn't require paint, so the cost and time for that entire step is avoided. I had the same concern about cost, but when I did the math for my project, Oratex made the most sense. The only other drawback to Oratex is the flat/dull finish compared to a good paint job. One word of advice: don't order your Oratex supplies until you're almost ready to cover. Oratex glue has a short shelf life, so you don't want it sitting around for a long time. Shipping from Germany was very quick, so you won't be delayed if you order just-in-time.
@@FlyingShotsman Lighter, seems stronger, much less labor, no harsh chemicals and no painting. Yeah Oratex seems like the ideal fabric to use. You are right the savings in labor can make it cheaper or break even. But some people have more free time than free money where others can make more money if they had more time. I want to spend my time building and flying not painting so I am leaning towards Oratex when it comes time to cover my Dakota Hawk but the deciding factor will come down to how much money I have to spend when it comes time to buy my covering supplies. Thanks for the tip about not ordering too early, also gives me more time to consider my options.
Hi again Jon. Could you tell me if there are any advantages with the Poly system over the Steward system. A big advantage with the Steward System is that it is water based. But does it have the strength of the Poly system. In my estermation strength is paramount when constructing aircraft. You don't want the pants to peel off the flipper when you are up there. Could be embarrising. Please advise us on the way to go. Thanks.
Hi Jon. I heard Jim mention something about a rip tape over the fabrice. Will you be showing the addition of this tape later or is it un-necessary to use this tape on the Affordaplane. I seem to remember seeing a taped training edge on the factory aircraft I've been
Did they say why they used two sheets rather than wrapping on sheet around the straight side of the rudder? Cutting two holes for the hinges would be easy.
Jon, I was looking into the rigging for the tail feathers and noticed the information in the plans seems to be a little lacking. Can you cover this topic? Between the 3-view drawing and pages 97 and 125, a lot of detail seems to be missing. Your thoughts?
Jim, I think all the info is there - just a little bit hiding! The angle of incidence is set by the drilled wing attach holes in the fuselage via the gussets. The dihedral is documented on page 46 (3 degrees) as measured with a string. There is no sweep adjustment. We will cover these things in our vids when we rig our wings to make this clear.
@@HomebuiltHELP ... Sorry Jon, but I was trying to reference the cables on the tail feathers (both sides of fin) from the top of the fin to the outside of the horizontal stabilizer (upper side) and from the outside of the horizontal stabilizer to an attachment on gusset I (lower side). I haven't made it to the wings yet. (I found that from the 2016 plans pdf, pages 125 and 127 has the information defined.)
My apologies - I did not read your question carefully. I see on drawing 97 of the more recent plans this rigging is discussed somewhat. The reason it has not been addressed yet in the videos is that this step comes after all covering is completed before final installation. The holes in the gussets DO have to be made now, of course. You can rig before covering - but it would have to be disassembled before covering and later reattached. These are straight cables that should not alter the alignment of either the fin or the stabilizer - it merely locks in their position. I will show these in a video when the times come. In addition, there are cables from the elevator tips to the tailwheel area on the fuselage. And then there are some other cables.......!
Not really. The iron heat is controlled and calibrated to bring the fabric to a known & even tension. The heat gun can create great variances in tension. It can also burn through. There are however certain areas that a heat gun can be used effectively, such as shrinking compound curves or tight hidden areas where an iron cannot reach. I have done a lot of fabric work. There are some things shown here that I would do differently, but they managed to get it done in good fashion.
What about the covering that already has color in it? I do not recall it's name but saw it on another covering video. No painting involved, less weight because of that.
Oratex is fabric that is prepainted. I *believe* it also uses a non toxic glue. It looks like a great product, strong and lightweight. Cost is it's downside. Polyfiber is a brand, they sell polyester fabric and the glue and such are thinned with MEK, really nasty stuff not good for the central nervous system. Stewart's is a brand, they sell polyester fabric and have water based non toxic chemicals. I *believe* both Stewart's and polyfiber can be used on any aircraft not just homebuilt. Oratex last I knew only had approval for hombuilts and a few specific aircraft. To be complete Dacron is a name brand for polyester fabric and is often used to describe the type of fabric used in aircraft.
Prayer is cheaper in the long run and finnish covering is lighter becouse you don't have to apply paint and the other sealing products like polly spray ect. It apllys almost like RC covering and can reshrink any time with a heat gun
@@scottjennifer7778 I assume you mean Oratex? I'm not convinced that it is cheaper in the long run. I think that statement depends on what value you place on time. You will save a lot of time using Oratex, but some people have more free time than they have free money and others can earn more money if they only had more time.
This is not a Stewart's Systems guy. The joy of this adhesive is that you paint it on the tubes, let it dry to tacky, then position the fabric in place using a tacking iron. Got it wrong? Just peel it off and start again. You can reposition it as many times as you want. Then iron it down to the tube, work out the sags, and then when it is perfect, overcoat the seams. He is tacking it down by sticking it to wet. Stewart's is attached to the dry base coat with heat.
Sorry about the sudden break off, but the transmit bottone is real close to the typed message, and I was doing a spot of editing and hit the transit button accidently. The jist of the comment above is: will a rip tape be installed later, and if so how much will be installed. Will the whole edge of the rudder be taped or just the training edge.
Hi Arthur, Yes, we will use finishing tapes where needed (sparingly!) This presentation was just a quickee demo of what the covering process looks like - but not finished. Our future covering demonstrations will be more complete with all of the details. Just wanted to show those that never experienced a "covering" that the process was easy. Will resume after our winter break - sometime in April.
I vote Stewart’s. Maybe a little more explanation of the process, timing/tips. Pro’s and Con’s of both systems. Don’t need to see covering of the entire plane.
I vote Stewarts too! The only real difference is the chemicals the process is basically the same. Full disclosure the CFI who signed me off for my check ride is the owner of Stewarts. But I did used polyfiber on my MiniMax build. Next build I'm using Stewart's or Oratex.
Whats the point of bringing in an expert, then removing the voice part of what he was doing? The spoken word is as important as the visual aspect, remove either one and it is pointless.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Hello Jon, I would definitely love to see a more detailed covering of the wings. That seems to me a more complex/intimidating area to tackle. Thank you so much for the great video series of this build!
Ditto. Just imagine I'm in possession of, say eight and a half, maybe nine thumbs. I have come to enjoy voice over and kind of feel like it's our weekly conversation. Does that sound dumb???
It looks like it's helpful to have a second pair of hands. The wings might prove more difficult. The series is excellent and much appreciated. Only detail the difficult parts or the videos will be too long.
If extra help is not available one person can do it. Clothes pins or similar are quite helpful when working alone.
If you can film the covering of one wing? That would be hugely beneficial. I know that would be tough to film.
The poly fiber is probably the way I’ll be going for added strength.
I dont think there is a "strength difference" between polly and stewarts. Stewarts is approved to repair polly as far as i know (not much) so tells me their =. Stewarts is just easier to use since its water based
Yes. Please include a step-by-step when you cover the wings. Also, I was wondering why there isn't a bracing framework inside the rudder to make it stronger. Thanks.
I was wondering the same thing about the bracing. 👍🏻
Hi. Thanks for the part 35 of the Affordaplane project. This is one aspect of aircraft construction that I have never tackled. As far as which system to use I am going to see if I can stick with the Stewart system because I don't want to wind up like a sprayed roach. From what I've seen in the part 35 I feel confident in covering my project when the time comes.
By the way I have discovered that Aircraft Spruce have a branch in Germany, and they stock 6061-T6. That was a big relief to know.
Thank you for a wonderful series and I'm looking forward to seeing part 36.
Hi again Jon. It's me again in the above comment. Arthur Southam and not scorla di danza. Or what ever they call their dance school. They hijacked my phone and I didn't see it until it was too late.
Sorry about that. I must make shure it does not happen again.
I'd try the oracover lite! Get the fabric on and you're done!
Id like to hear the advantages and disadvantages of each system. If this systems glue can be reactivated with water and or heat, are there any problems that could show up later like direct sunlight on a hot humid day?
Great overview.
I started watching this series, off and on, from the beginning with the intention of never building one.
Passed my private checkride 15 months ago and was set on starting a zenith 750 cruiser this year.
The more I come back to this series, the more I think I should change direction and build an A-plane.
Thanks for the video's Jon !!!
FWIW, Dacron, polyester and ceconite are synonymous. Poly-Fiber is a brand name/system of coatings and accessories (see Aircraft Spruce for details). Another step not shown here is the application of finishing tape (aka perimeter tape). It's used over potentially abrading areas like braces, ribs and struts (as well as the perimeter). The _About_ section of my name has a link for an example on my build.
Please consider showing a short demo of all three systems, Poly Fiber, Stuart, and Oratex on a small part, like the rudder, and then move on to whichever choice you make for the larger or finishing portions. Doing on half of the wing as suggested in other comments makes sense, but having some exposure to the actual systems (vs advertiser's demos) would be very helpful.
I’m currently using the same glue and really enjoy working with it!
Polyfiber also provides an antichaffing tape that can be applied over edges/rivet heads that could wear thru the fabric.
I bought a roll of anti chaffing tape from ASpruce and it wont stick very good to anything .
Great video series! More detail is always appreciated!
I think that Stewart Systems are the best option for fabric covering, thanks for sharing
For future consideration... how about installing a Verner 3V radial engine?!!
Great video Jon (if I do say so myself!). Looks like I'll have to come up and spend another week visiting with you to do a demo of covering a wing or another useful component. I'm looking forward to it! If there is any interest we can do a demonstration of Oratex as well to show another alternative.
It would awesome to have a demo by an expert.
I too would like to see an Oratex example.
More details??? YES please ...
This is the best commercial yet for Oratex!
Thanks! I’d like to see a more detailed explanation when you do the top of a wing (that seems like it would be the most challenging part).
Will be using Stewarts myself on my project
Jon, great overview. However, I think a bit more detail would be appropriate. For instance, cutting around hinges on 2nd side; setting iron temperature, how to tell how fast to move the iron, tensioning the fabric, and more. Thanks again for doing this! Also, I think it would be worth mentioning that the weight difference across the 25 yards of fabric for the 1.7 oz vs the 2.7 oz fabric would only be about 1.5-2 pounds across the aircraft. If you're trying to make 103 weight, this could be significant, but about double the fabric cost to save just shy of 2 pounds.
Hi Jon. Got your message, thanks a lot.
I hope to be going to Bulgaria soon where I will have the space to build an Afordaplane. Here in Italy I do not have anywhere to build. The houses here are like living in a ground floor flat.
Thanks again for a most informative series. I will be keeping an eye on things in case you publish something in the meantime.
Thank you for the reply. It is one of the few replies I've ever got from anybody. Thanks again.
By the way. I'm hoping to get a movement going in Bulgaria for flying, and in particular flying the Afordaplane.
Thanks again for the reply, and I hope to send you some ideas regarding the building of the Affordaplane.
Yes I think more detailed steps in covering can be a great help for us never done it before people like me... was surprised you are not using Dacron that’s what the plans call for...
Poly-fiber and Dacron are trade names for essentially the same thing: a special polyester fabric. Like saying you prefer Kleenex as opposed to Scotty tissue !
@@HomebuiltHELP oh ok interesting first time I ever heard it said that way it threw me off lol 😂
Enjoy your entire series. Would like to see a little more detail in the covering process. What product is the lightest finished covering? Thank you
Thx for the vid. Just the right amount of detail for me. Awesome job as usual!
Hi again Jon.Looking at the covering of the rudder I suspect that the Stewart System would give you a lot more time to get the fabrice on to the frame as it is water based. The fumes given off by the solvents in the Poly System are not only dangerous but flash dry very quickly and the bonding property of the glue could become useless.
I am very keen to see the wings been covered as I feel they will require much more skill than the tail section.
Hope to see some more videos soon. Thanks for the series so far.
I am enjoying this series. I would like to see as much detail on the processes and covering the other components as you are willing to provide. I would also like some discussion on the merits of each method (quality, strength, long term serviceability, etc.). Please keep up the good work.
MORE AFFORDAPLANE! Please.
Please continue building
There are many videos on details of the Stewarts Systems here: ruclips.net/user/StewartSystemsvideos
Hi once more. Jon, please could you let us know what heat range is used on the iron to bond the material to the frame, and the range to do the final shrink of the fabrice. I have seen on another site where covering of the wing was done, but I don't know what adesive was used.
An over view of the covering of the wing should be enough for me, but a step by step might be necessary for some of us when it comes to covering the wing.
I'm very fortunate in that I learn through my eyes, but not so good through my ears. I just have to see how to do the task and then I can repeat it like an expert. This is probably why I'm hopeless at learning languages.
Thanks again for this series of building the Affordaplane.
More covering!
Hi Jon. I have some wories about the covering of the wings. The wing is a lot more complex than the tail feathers. I think a step by step video would be of great benefit to most of us builders.
Also, after seeing how forgiving the water based Steward system is I think I will be using this system when I finally get to Bulgaria and have somewhere to build the A Plane.
I have all your tips of the week so far saved on my laptop, and intend to use them to build my own affordaplane. My main concern with the wing is the getting around the strut attachments. Also Jon, could you advise on any short comings that might happen when covering of the wing with the Steward System, or if it is prfectly OK to use the system throughout.
Thanks again for a most informative series of videos. I look forward to seeing part36 soon.
Maybe do a small section with the old school solvent system but do the bulk one work with the water based system for safety ’s sake...
Hi again Jon. Please excuse the mistake I made when I posted my story under S. I lent my laptop to my friend and somehow she got into your web page.
Anyway I think I will not require a step by step on covering the wing, but I'm concerned that the wing doesn't have a lower rib. Am I missing something, or will you be fitting the lower rib later?
I feel really confident that my project is going to be a success. I have all your videos to refer to if I get stuck.
Thanks again for the information so far.
I am building an all metal aircraft but knowing how fabric is applied has always been something i wanted to know how to do.
Re: Stewart vs Polyfibre, SS sounds much more friendly, but which lasts longer, which is easiest to remove should re-covering be necessary, and let's not forget price. I suspect no need to go over this again as long as wing seam joining is covered. Cheers Jon!
WRT re-covering... I've never worked with Stewart, but I did strip a plane that had been badly covered with Poly Fiber. It was just a matter of slicing the fabric and pulling it off. Even in the areas that had been glued properly, it came off fairly easily. The hardest part is removing the Poly-Tak residue from the structure. That takes a lot of MEK and many hours of scraping and sanding.
@@FlyingShotsman Thanks FS!
Hi again Jon. The issue that worries me about the covering of the wing is how do you apply the fabric around the strut attachment points. As for the rest of the wing it appears quite straight forward to me. But I'm probably wrong with my assumptions.
I'm eagerly waiting to see how you tackle this problem with the strut attachment points.
My guess is that you will be covering the bottom section of the wing first and then doing the attachment points and adding the reinforcing patches before covering the top surface of the wing. Am I correct in assuming this?
Here is hoping we hear something from you soon, and that the conditions improving there.
Hi Arthur, Yes the struts need to go thru the bottom. You can learn from my mistakes by watching me do this operation! Shouldn't be long before we're back to building this season.
you could try pinking shears it will keep the material from fraying
Does anyone know the weight per square yard you should count on when all finished including paint/dope etc. I know it will be a range.
Hello again Jon. Thanks for the reply.
The strut connection in the wing has been giving me head aches for a while no. I had the impression that the wing had to be completed brfore connecting the atachments to the wing. I could not figure this out as you would do this. As there is no access access to the quarter inch attachment bolts through the spars. Even though you might install the strut attachments after covering the bottom of the wing how do you inspect the attachments after the wing is completly covered.
Been made of steel it would be of great benefit to have inspection hatches on the under side of the wing because steel rusts no matter how well it is painted, and it is important that you are able to keep an eye on these fittings.
Electro plating these parts is not an option as hydrogen imbrittlement weakens the plated piece greatly. Cadmeium plating is the only electro plating allowed on aircraft, but from experience I found that it doesn't last. Rust soon sets in.
Stainless Steel is also a no no. Although it has a greater tensile strength than ordenary steel it has an alarming fatigue rate. It really doesn't like to be bent.
Well that is my issue spelt out. I hope to see how you over came this problem. I'm sure you have this well and truly under control.
Thanks again for a most informative series.
What happens next after the outline is glued and ironed? Is the whole surface ironed next? Is it painted or doped with another material? And how does this affect weight if someone is trying to stay within part 103?
Why didn't you use Oratex to cover it,? Would have saved some time.
Hi Jon. Sorry to hear you are snowed in and cannot carry on with the videos or the Affordaplane.
Just a question out of curousity. Can the wings be rigged without them been covered?
It is getting a bit boreing looking at part 35 and champing at the bit for part 36, or is it that bad over there as to have stopped production all together?
I am very keen to get all your videos on building the affordaplane so as to see the building technics you have employed in building your one.
Please let us know of any progress. We can't wait to see your one flying.
Hi Arthur - yes wing rigging should be done before fabric covering. I should be back to building in April. Just too cold to work before then! Over the last couple months have been selecting/ordering the engine and design of the engine mount. Previews of these will be show first to Patreon members.
I'm thinking electric fabric shears might come in very handy for this project.
You mention the Poly system has hazardous components. Might be a good idea to detail those and to indicate the protection needed to use it. Then folks might be able to give you a choice on the method. I build guitars and finish with nitrocellulose lacquer. Only PPE needed is a respirator I can buy cheaply at Harbor Freight. Perhaps that's all that's needed for the Poly system.
Hi Jon, it is very helpful video , but I see at minute 16 a Blue Tape , so what is the purpose of it and how is it installed ? Thank you.
Hi
Does this plane have wings which can fold fairly easily (~15 mins) to make it possible to tow to an airfield and keep at home?
oratex seems like a great fit for this kind of build
Wish it did not cost so much tho! I'm considering using it on my Dakota Hawk build if I have enough in my budget when it comes time to cover.
@@ulbuilder You have to consider the total cost of covering. Oratex doesn't require paint, so the cost and time for that entire step is avoided. I had the same concern about cost, but when I did the math for my project, Oratex made the most sense. The only other drawback to Oratex is the flat/dull finish compared to a good paint job. One word of advice: don't order your Oratex supplies until you're almost ready to cover. Oratex glue has a short shelf life, so you don't want it sitting around for a long time. Shipping from Germany was very quick, so you won't be delayed if you order just-in-time.
@@FlyingShotsman Lighter, seems stronger, much less labor, no harsh chemicals and no painting. Yeah Oratex seems like the ideal fabric to use. You are right the savings in labor can make it cheaper or break even. But some people have more free time than free money where others can make more money if they had more time. I want to spend my time building and flying not painting so I am leaning towards Oratex when it comes time to cover my Dakota Hawk but the deciding factor will come down to how much money I have to spend when it comes time to buy my covering supplies. Thanks for the tip about not ordering too early, also gives me more time to consider my options.
Hi again Jon. Could you tell me if there are any advantages with the Poly system over the Steward system. A big advantage with the Steward System is that it is water based. But does it have the strength of the Poly system.
In my estermation strength is paramount when constructing aircraft. You don't want the pants to peel off the flipper when you are up there. Could be embarrising.
Please advise us on the way to go. Thanks.
Hi Jon. I heard Jim mention something about a rip tape over the fabrice. Will you be showing the addition of this tape later or is it un-necessary to use this tape on the Affordaplane.
I seem to remember seeing a taped training edge on the factory aircraft I've been
How about Ortex? No spray necessary..
Did they say why they used two sheets rather than wrapping on sheet around the straight side of the rudder? Cutting two holes for the hinges would be easy.
Jon, I was looking into the rigging for the tail feathers and noticed the information in the plans seems to be a little lacking. Can you cover this topic? Between the 3-view drawing and pages 97 and 125, a lot of detail seems to be missing. Your thoughts?
Jim, I think all the info is there - just a little bit hiding! The angle of incidence is set by the drilled wing attach holes in the fuselage via the gussets. The dihedral is documented on page 46 (3 degrees) as measured with a string. There is no sweep adjustment. We will cover these things in our vids when we rig our wings to make this clear.
@@HomebuiltHELP ... Sorry Jon, but I was trying to reference the cables on the tail feathers (both sides of fin) from the top of the fin to the outside of the horizontal stabilizer (upper side) and from the outside of the horizontal stabilizer to an attachment on gusset I (lower side). I haven't made it to the wings yet. (I found that from the 2016 plans pdf, pages 125 and 127 has the information defined.)
My apologies - I did not read your question carefully. I see on drawing 97 of the more recent plans this rigging is discussed somewhat. The reason it has not been addressed yet in the videos is that this step comes after all covering is completed before final installation. The holes in the gussets DO have to be made now, of course. You can rig before covering - but it would have to be disassembled before covering and later reattached. These are straight cables that should not alter the alignment of either the fin or the stabilizer - it merely locks in their position. I will show these in a video when the times come. In addition, there are cables from the elevator tips to the tailwheel area on the fuselage. And then there are some other cables.......!
Would a heat gun work better than the iron?
Not really. The iron heat is controlled and calibrated to bring the fabric to a known & even tension. The heat gun can create great variances in tension. It can also burn through. There are however certain areas that a heat gun can be used effectively, such as shrinking compound curves or tight hidden areas where an iron cannot reach. I have done a lot of fabric work. There are some things shown here that I would do differently, but they managed to get it done in good fashion.
What about the covering that already has color in it? I do not recall it's name but saw it on another covering video. No painting involved, less weight because of that.
Jon Jon...Stewart System.
Safety first for us lil G A guys N gals. The youngsters we wanna turn onto flight shouldn’t be huffing MEK!
Is oratex and polyfibre are same ??
Is polyester and polyfibre are same ??😇
Oratex is fabric that is prepainted. I *believe* it also uses a non toxic glue. It looks like a great product, strong and lightweight. Cost is it's downside.
Polyfiber is a brand, they sell polyester fabric and the glue and such are thinned with MEK, really nasty stuff not good for the central nervous system.
Stewart's is a brand, they sell polyester fabric and have water based non toxic chemicals.
I *believe* both Stewart's and polyfiber can be used on any aircraft not just homebuilt. Oratex last I knew only had approval for hombuilts and a few specific aircraft.
To be complete Dacron is a name brand for polyester fabric and is often used to describe the type of fabric used in aircraft.
Prayer is cheaper in the long run and finnish covering is lighter becouse you don't have to apply paint and the other sealing products like polly spray ect.
It apllys almost like RC covering and can reshrink any time with a heat gun
@@scottjennifer7778 I assume you mean Oratex? I'm not convinced that it is cheaper in the long run. I think that statement depends on what value you place on time. You will save a lot of time using Oratex, but some people have more free time than they have free money and others can earn more money if they only had more time.
@@ulbuilder thank q bro
This is not a Stewart's Systems guy. The joy of this adhesive is that you paint it on the tubes, let it dry to tacky, then position the fabric in place using a tacking iron. Got it wrong? Just peel it off and start again. You can reposition it as many times as you want. Then iron it down to the tube, work out the sags, and then when it is perfect, overcoat the seams. He is tacking it down by sticking it to wet. Stewart's is attached to the dry base coat with heat.
Sorry about the sudden break off, but the transmit bottone is real close to the typed message, and I was doing a spot of editing and hit the transit button accidently.
The jist of the comment above is: will a rip tape be installed later, and if so how much will be installed. Will the whole edge of the rudder be taped or just the training edge.
Hi Arthur, Yes, we will use finishing tapes where needed (sparingly!) This presentation was just a quickee demo of what the covering process looks like - but not finished. Our future covering demonstrations will be more complete with all of the details. Just wanted to show those that never experienced a "covering" that the process was easy. Will resume after our winter break - sometime in April.
stewart please
I vote Stewart’s. Maybe a little more explanation of the process, timing/tips. Pro’s and Con’s of both systems. Don’t need to see covering of the entire plane.
Stick with the Stewart system. . .would like to the rest of the aircraft done. . .thanks Peter
I vote Stewarts too! The only real difference is the chemicals the process is basically the same.
Full disclosure the CFI who signed me off for my check ride is the owner of Stewarts. But I did used polyfiber on my MiniMax build. Next build I'm using Stewart's or Oratex.
I would think covering one wing would be appropriate.
Excellent Demo! Step-by-step is not as important to me as the technique of applying the covering.
Stewart System is MUCH better!
Whats the point of bringing in an expert, then removing the voice part of what he was doing? The spoken word is as important as the visual aspect, remove either one and it is pointless.
Wow, did not know he was explaining things while we were filming! Will pay more attention next time!
No offense but from doing upholstery your scissors are like add really offensive