Ascendant Astarion and Karlach origin return from avernus together

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  • Опубликовано: 16 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 58

  • @AvitalaTheWingedWolf
    @AvitalaTheWingedWolf 11 месяцев назад +153

    I find it interesting that Ascended Astarion seems surprised at his own willingness to follow Karlach to Avernus, pretty much giving up his initial plans for Baldur's Gate. Maybe he just figures he'll have time to do that later, but it's intriguing that he's willing to give up the edge that Cazadors pre-laid plans had left him just to stay with Karlach.

    • @IrisGlowingBlue
      @IrisGlowingBlue 11 месяцев назад +30

      The animation's so good; he's visibly like,, "[A single second of sincerity] I would---- [Scheming Engaged; Yeah That Could Work] I'd even go with you!"

    • @AvitalaTheWingedWolf
      @AvitalaTheWingedWolf 11 месяцев назад +20

      ​@GlowingBlueIris Exactly! He realizes he doesn't have to pick Karlach over his other goals, at least not in the long term. As he's so fond of saying, he has 'forever.' He can go take over Baldurs gate later.

    • @xandroy1273
      @xandroy1273 11 месяцев назад +5

      ​@@IrisGlowingBlue Neil is such a good actor, he really deserved the award. He not only voiced and mocapped Astarion, he is the body for almost every male NPC and even some of the companions. Truly amazing work

    • @veronicashields4405
      @veronicashields4405 10 месяцев назад +5

      “I’m not lonely! *You’re* lonely!!”
      I think it’s also that he can’t make her a spawn. He doesn’t have the internalized contempt to project on her. He has to treat her more like an equal.

    • @vante2
      @vante2 10 месяцев назад +1

      I mean, he's basically short of immortal; he's got all the time in the world, whereas his love interest (Karlach in this case) is not (characters that can actually become immortal notwithstanding)

  • @veronicashields4405
    @veronicashields4405 11 месяцев назад +204

    Honestly, this is probably the best outcome for everybody if you ascend him. Not only is Faerun free of his influence if he’s in the hells, but he’s also in a position where he gets to use his power against deserving enemies…and having a common enemy means he and his partner stay united.

    • @Karomix3
      @Karomix3 11 месяцев назад +9

      Yeah, also there is no sun there and he could go and kill every devil he comes across, he could probably try to fight and win against Zariel and Raphael's dad. Then once they find a permanent solution for Karlach he might turn her into his spawn.

    • @BlackMetalButterfly
      @BlackMetalButterfly 11 месяцев назад +13

      Saying his ascended ending is the best will never not be wrong

    • @kellevichy
      @kellevichy 11 месяцев назад +15

      @@Karomix3 He's ascended, the sun literally doesn't matter to him though.

    • @Karomix3
      @Karomix3 11 месяцев назад +29

      @@BlackMetalButterfly They didn't say that, they said it was the best OUTCOME ascending ending, not his best ending in general. Mostly because he'll be in Avernus killing devils rather than killing humans in Baldur's Gate. So he's gonna go fight a blood war and enjoy himself rather than dominating Faerun.

    • @rockchik409
      @rockchik409 11 месяцев назад +18

      ​@@BlackMetalButterflyI definitely prefer spawn Astarion, but I think the worst ending is if you don't kill cazador. I've seen a Wither party scene where you don't and it broke my heart. He just goes back to eat rats, and hiding/living in fear of cazador. At least with Acendent hes free of cazador. He doesn't get the trama/emotional closure and Baldurs Gate could be screwed over in time, but at least he isn't in fear of cazador😅

  • @thiriann
    @thiriann 11 месяцев назад +88

    It's shocking really. He seems like he can't love anything, certainlly he doesn't treat Tav with love. Not a sincere word of out that one. But Karlach? He actually sounds like he loves her

    • @larrylapin2009
      @larrylapin2009 10 месяцев назад +8

      Heeeeeeeh was gonna say something similar to this. I wanted to romance both or either or, now it just seems like a crap idea. They all turn into migraine inducing children when you're tav but with eachother they have so much of their own. Kinda sucks if you decide to create a tav

    • @ANPC-pi9vu
      @ANPC-pi9vu 9 месяцев назад +6

      Nah, I def think he still loves Tav and Durge if they become consorts... he just can't be sweet and emotional about it like Spawn Astarion. But he's obsessed with giving his lover the best life possible regardless of his own fucked up feelings inside. It's a twisted love but sweet in it's own way.

    • @avashnea
      @avashnea 7 месяцев назад +2

      @@ANPC-pi9vu AA isn't capable of love, with anyone. All of his emotions get twisted and negative. It's possessiveness and manipulation. Even worse if he turns you since you're nothing but a puppet, just like he was.

  • @alexandradel9712
    @alexandradel9712 11 месяцев назад +23

    Thanks for the video!
    There's an option in the script for them to go to hell together and come back for the duration of the party.
    If plays as Karlach
    Player: Somewhat, but I'm itching to get back.
    Astarion: An understandable urge. This place is dull by comparison, but...
    Astarion: I admit, I do miss the luxuries of this plane. What I wouldn't give for a silk bed...
    Astarion: But don't fear, we'll have that engine of yours fixed before you know it. And then we can return in all our glory.
    So there's that. Not surprised considering what was going on with patch 4. >.>
    Some phrases were not added, but they were in the script and appeared in patch 5.

  • @greenthi
    @greenthi 9 месяцев назад +7

    Every time I feel like I have Ascended Astarion figured out, he pulls a fast one and surprises me with another completely unexpected gesture. I think that in most other runs, Ascended Astarion falls into the same circle of abuse and position that Cazador did, largely fueled by his kill-or-be-killed attitude towards life.
    I think that having Karlach as a partner, in a moment of acute distress and intense time of need, forces him to reconsider his immediate plans. Probably not in the long run, but you can see through this video that he’s forced to face her reality and reevaluate his priorities in life. I’m really impressed that he decided to put his dreams on pause to support a partner.
    I can’t even begin to imagine how Karlach feels as well, seeing a lover ascend in such bloodthirsty ways, but still commit to her as a partner and saying that he still loves her. I’m usually hesitant whenever I hear Ascended Astarion say he loves anyone, but for once I believe him, or at least the sentiment. This is why I adore this pairing as well. This scenario is so uniquely Karlach/Astarion.

    • @ANPC-pi9vu
      @ANPC-pi9vu 9 месяцев назад +4

      TBF, ascendant is all about facades. He's a lot like an insecure narcicist, but one with great potential power and connections. But Astarion still has his soul, and is still there at the core of this being despite his facade. The whole cycle of abuse thing... I think people over simplify it... Ascending puts him on that path because he chooses to deal with trauma by seeking power over others instead of by dealing with the pain and uncertainty of life, but he's not exactly like Caz and certainly isn't even an abuser yet. He's possessive, sure, but to be fair if you choose to be a consort you knew what you were signing up for, and he isn't as controlling in practice as he makes himself out to be with his dirty talk. He also could of had you as a spawn he could physically control like Cazador, but chose instead to make you something new and special that doesn't have to suffer what he had to. You could probably have all sorts of ambitions of your own that he'd support, but you will simply never be rid of him, because he will always find you and have claim over you as his lover now. So... it's complicated.
      Now, the whole 'cycle of abuse' and becoming like Cazador thing I suspect will happen when he decides to make spawn of his own. That is when he will likely start to take out his self loathing and vampiric urges on others who can not resist him. Can a good aligned consort keep him in check and stop him from becoming cruel like Caz? Dunno... makes for great fanfiction and duojinshi material, though. There are some hints in Ascendants dialogue that he wants to be a good ruler, that he wants some form of justice in the world... BUT that will likely take a twisted form and be tyranical in the long run because that is how D&D vamps work... whatever they were in life becomes a basis for their vampiric obsessions, and in Astarion's case he was canonically a Magistrate who always handed down the harshest sentencing for criminals. Add to that the fact he wants to plunge the city into a dark fog to protect his future spawn from harm, and you can see he wants to be good to his spawn, but is disregarding what is good for the living inhabitants of Baldur's Gate. This is classic twisted vampiric good intentions stuff. He is likely destined to die as a tragic villain, IMO.

    • @greenthi
      @greenthi 9 месяцев назад +1

      @@ANPC-pi9vu Really wonderful analysis. I just had the pleasure of finishing Astarion’s quest the other day and tried out both ascending and not ascending him (I know, 6 months since release and I’m still crawling around in act 3) and I totally see what you mean. I was fully expecting someone similar to Cazador based off what I heard online, and while it’s still pretty bad, it’s not quite the same as Cazador, as you pointed out.
      From my perspective, Ascended Astarion really seems like someone who wants to love and thinks he loves in great ways, but can’t without the toxicity that comes with insecurity and fear. While his decision to ascend is primarily motivated by fears he already has, if you play as a partner you can see that the desire to ascend is pushed even further by the idea of an “us”. Ascension gives him a false sense of invincibility but as we see in this clip, that false belief can be broken, at least a bit! Obviously we as the audience know that whatever the motive may be, his attitude and possessive streak isn’t the *healthiest* (derogatory even) but it’s not the exact same as the vampires before him. At least, not at the start.
      I really like your point about ascension just twisting the parts of Astarion that already exist into worse extremes. That totally makes sense with how we see him before- a person who cherishes his partner deeply, but is scared to outright label it- versus how we see him after, a person who cares about labels, who wants to cherish a lover, but isn’t sure how to without elements of possessiveness that he dealt with as a spawn. At least, that’s how I read it. It really makes you wonder what Cazador could’ve been life as a spawn (and even before that), if his twisted extreme is chaining people to him as “family”.

  • @rockchik409
    @rockchik409 11 месяцев назад +37

    Ascendant Astarion is such an egnigma sometimes. Its like he keeps going back and forth between being an uncaring asshole manipulator to genuinely caring about his partner. First he sounds two faced about Karlachs engine, seemingly taking joy knowing her engine isn't going to last. Then when she does confirm that reality, he gets genuinely upset and worried. Only to maybe switch back because he sees how going to the hells benifits him as well; gets to be with her and can just fight and flex his power. The fact that he mentions time in both this one and in other end dialogues where he doesn't have a long rest to turn you is interesting. It seems a big fear of his is losing you cause he thinks you two will run out of time to be together; wheather its Karlachs engine or the uncertainty of removing the tadpoles.

    • @danir4077
      @danir4077 11 месяцев назад +21

      I think they didn't expect you not to long rest b4 the final battle. They're supposed to be doomed to break up, so that's probably part of the disconnect.
      I feel like the other issue is that if you're in love b4 he ascends, his feelings get the D&D vampire treatment of becoming an unhealthy/twisted obsession. Since Karlach HAS to go to hell, his obsession demands he goes too.
      Strahd did a bunch of stupid stuff that distracted from his plans all the time whenever he saw someone that looked like the woman he loved. Tho in his case, the woman didn't even love him back. He was just that deluded 😅

    • @IrisGlowingBlue
      @IrisGlowingBlue 11 месяцев назад +2

      @@danir4077 That scans! It's like he's as close to love as he can get, but still not actually close

    • @pastelpixelp
      @pastelpixelp 11 месяцев назад +1

      it seems like it's a front to protect his emotions, but he still takes it too far sometimes

    • @veronicashields4405
      @veronicashields4405 10 месяцев назад +14

      His inability to turn her into a spawn is a key difference from the other plotlines, IMO. If you go through with it, it fails, and he will cruelly break up with her, but in this version where that scene was skipped, not only does he not have time to develop contempt to project on her, he also has time for his loneliness to fester to the point of seeking her out to soothe it. In Avernus, they’re under siege, so he focus his malice at a common enemy instead of turning the knife on his partner like he does in the others.

    • @greenthi
      @greenthi 9 месяцев назад +4

      @@veronicashields4405I totally agree with everything you said here. Ascended Astarion is a pretty fragile and volatile man mentally speaking and the difference between this romance and a Tav A.Astarion romance (hell, this specific Karlach origin scene versus the “regular” Karlach origin breakup) suggests that, like it or not, he’s not as invulnerable to his environment as he thinks. With Tav, we see him take a sharp turn towards possessiveness for the worst. With Karlach and all her uncontrollable variables, who knows? Maybe he’ll be forced to reevaluate his life perspective, maybe not.

  • @NathanielTavington
    @NathanielTavington 11 месяцев назад +32

    Honestly, this is the proof I needed that, even ascended, the Astarion we fell in love with is still in there. Somewhere, at least.

    • @ВладиславБулаев-л3э
      @ВладиславБулаев-л3э 11 месяцев назад +27

      Unless he tries to turn her into a spawn and it burns him. He calls her "broken" after that. Yuck, it's fucked up...

    • @FluffyTailedPrince
      @FluffyTailedPrince 11 месяцев назад +4

      If you don't give Astarion the time to think, it looks like he goes by what comes natural.

    • @MyDestinyDear
      @MyDestinyDear 11 месяцев назад +5

      My theory
      The ascension is doing something to him mentally. Destroying whatever bit of soul he has left and the longer he remains ascended the worse he will become.

    • @avashnea
      @avashnea 7 месяцев назад +2

      He's not. He isn't capable of love anymore. Ascending him destroys the Astarion that was there before. He's nothing but Cazador 2.0

  • @phoenixastra4429
    @phoenixastra4429 11 месяцев назад +19

    I'm happy too, I saw mine today. Thanks for posting this! I never thought of karlach x astarion but that's cute

  • @ВладиславБулаев-л3э
    @ВладиславБулаев-л3э 11 месяцев назад +10

    Bruh, her face at 3:25, I can't 😭😭

  • @Juna067
    @Juna067 11 месяцев назад +53

    I didn't know ascended Astarion and Karlach could be together, when he tried to make her a spawn and got burned I though it would be over ?

    • @Stibbian
      @Stibbian 11 месяцев назад +77

      after he ascends you need to go do the final battle of the game immediately without long resting--the scene where he tries to turn her and gets burnt never happens, they don't break up, and you can stay together in the epilogue

    • @Juna067
      @Juna067 11 месяцев назад +5

      @@Stibbian Oh I see, thank you!

    • @greenthi
      @greenthi 9 месяцев назад +5

      @@Stibbian It’s fascinating that the devs even considered this as potential route players would take, considering this dialogue is so scenario-specific. It really adds a whole new dimension to this pairing and is almost a complete tonal opposite to the one where they broke up. The implications are fascinating!

    • @Stibbian
      @Stibbian 9 месяцев назад +5

      @@greenthi Yes, they really are! Personally, I think that when Astarion tries and fails to turn Karlach, he realises that she is going to die and there's nothing he can do to fix her or control her to change her mind, even with his mighty Vampire Ascendent powers which were supposed to fix all the problems in his life. He feels angry, humiliated, and devastated, so he breaks up with Karlach, takes it out on her by saying cruel things about her being 'defective, broken, doomed', and distances himself emotionally.
      Whereas in this ending, it all happens in the same day as he ascends--he probably was still riding the high of ascending and thought Karlach dying was some far-off, distant prospect, and when put on the spot and faced with the reality of her dying right in front of him, he makes the snap decision to go to Avernus with her out of sentiment. You can see him visibly second-guessing his offer to accompany her right after he says it, but he probably just rationalises it to himself as just being a gap-year in hell before world domination or whatever, and Karlach will owe him after if they manage to fix her engine.
      (Respect to him for slogging through Avernus in that outfit though lmao)

    • @greenthi
      @greenthi 9 месяцев назад +4

      @@Stibbian I have nothing else to add except I think you’re spot on with this analysis. Put all my thoughts into words, I’m quoting this when talking about Ascended Astarion with my friends!

  • @IrisGlowingBlue
    @IrisGlowingBlue 11 месяцев назад +5

    Aside from the bloodsucker seeing Karlach's internal monologue being, like, for lack of a better term so compassionate with her makes me Cry

  • @ВладиславБулаев-л3э
    @ВладиславБулаев-л3э 11 месяцев назад +3

    What's up with her right eye? Is that Volo's eye?

  • @vikkifanman
    @vikkifanman 11 месяцев назад +20

    A good proof Ascended Astarion loves his partner just doesn't show it as desperately as Spawn.

    • @UnseenOct
      @UnseenOct 10 месяцев назад +5

      The only confusing thing is that he will call karlach broken and worthless if he can't bite her. The only way you get this is doing the most unintuitive path which is fighting cazador, not resting, and then fighting the brain. So either these scenes were made without considering the other, or there are just enough fragments of original Astarion for his kindness to slip out occasionally.

    • @ANPC-pi9vu
      @ANPC-pi9vu 9 месяцев назад +3

      @@UnseenOct He thought Ascending would give him the power to fix all his problems, and being faced with something he couldn't overcome in such a visceral way as getting burnt by her blood is a reality check he wasn't prepared for, so he lashes out. Ascendant is basically just Astarion without facing his trauma and with his negative traits enhanced by becoming a full vampire. I think in the long run he is destined to be a tragic villain as Ascendant.

    • @avashnea
      @avashnea 7 месяцев назад +2

      No, it isn't. it's nothing but his possessiveness and obsession showing. He's not capable of love anymore.

    • @ANPC-pi9vu
      @ANPC-pi9vu 6 месяцев назад

      @@avashnea
      I disagree. There are some situational dialogues you can get with Ascendant where he shows actual care, and it is confirmed by the devs that he's whole, he's just more corrupted and committed to the cruel side of himself.

    • @avashnea
      @avashnea 6 месяцев назад +2

      @@ANPC-pi9vu The devs have not said that. Especially if you become his spawn, he's incapable of loving or caring for you as anything other than a possession. He actually tells you that you're stupid if you think you're anything else or that you can EVER leave as a spawn. That you're his FOREVER and that he controls EVERYTHING in your future. He is exactly like Cazador and even repeats Cazador's rules to you in a more 'charming' and manipulative way.

  • @bixusmaleficus
    @bixusmaleficus 11 месяцев назад +1

    No shoes? :D