This is my longest video yet! I can just ramble about sword history for ages. In future sword reviews, I may try to break up the video into two parts: one about the history, and another about the actual item I received. Let me know if you would prefer it that way or not. And thanks for watching!
@@nomanor7987 Some contemporary blades did have more of a point. I suspect that it may have been left off for a few reasons. 1. It can be harder to make a more durable spiked point without increasing the thickness of the blade which in turn would add even more mass. 2. They may have felt that it was too much trouble to try and thrust through heavy lamellar with a single handed sword. Most experts agree that lamellar is usually designed to counter archery and thus piercing attacks. So it may simply have been that stabbing through it was not practical with this wide blade. Also, in armored fighting using the percussive power of a thrust can still be helpful for off balancing the opponent and gaining initiative. 3. I suspect that making these swords with a clipped point would be relatively easy to manufacture when compared to other types of clipped points. When producing at a large scale, economy is very important.
That ~100g difference was there for me too - I brought it up with LK and they've since changed the website to a more appropriate weight :) I bought one of these a few weeks ago - it cuts like a goddamn lightsaber honestly... I'm super impressed (and I am NOT experienced at all at cutting). I also love the overall utilitarian aesthetic - nice and simple, and the important part (the blade) is damn near perfect. Can definitely recommend for anyone after a robust, effective cutting blade :)
Very interesting information ! 😀 I never really was interested in these types of swords...... Until now, I see them in a new light. 👍 and keep on rambling 😀.
I've been looking for a reproduction of the Republican Era Da Dao, but I can't find one I like. Do you think this sword is close enough in weight and balance to be a good substitute for the Da Dao?
Got a similar “grip bitting into the hand” feeling on the white arc. I also have the song hand dao and find it easy to move, forward heavy is just a different balance doesn’t necessarily mean a sword is hander to move.
Hi, nice review, but few things I have to point out: 1. The Chinese name of this sword's creator is "正楷", not 正皆; 2. Ring-Pommel sword handle actually never vanish in Chinese history, such sword handle is continually in used till Qing dynasty and today, you can even see ring-pommels on many Da Dao(抗戰大刀) during Second Sino-Japanese War and WW2 at 20th century.
MG47 Thank you for catching the typo! I will get that changed. As for ring pommels. I have another video in the works which talks about what became of the Song Hand Dao type of sword design. Yes, ring pommels continued to exist, but they were not nearly as popular as before and most Dao, especially single handed varients, did not have a ring pommel after the Song dynasty.
Great video! Would very much like to pick up an LK Chen sword, but it's so hard to pick which one. I had hoped this video would narrow my choices (by giving me reason not to want the Song Hand Dao), but no such luck... It appears they do offer the Yan Ling Dao with a laminated blade (1065 & T9 pattern over an A3 core), albeit at about twice the price. Have you heard anything about this blade, or by any chance been able to handle one? For all the reviews of LK Chen online, I haven't found much about that blade. I'm new to the channel, but look forward to working my way through. Great work!
I have not had a chance to handle the Yan Ling Dao yet, but stay tuned for that. I am also very interested in the traditional forge welded blade , and I can understand why it would cost more, but I hope to get my hands on one before too long.
Great video! I wonder if one could shoot whilst holding the dao through the pommel with a thumb draw, or maybe a lanyard thread through it, preventing it from being disarmed by accident due to fatigue or a bad strike. Also the tip was hardened but it doesn't seem to be used for thrusting. Wonder if it was used to concentrate the power of a strike against armoured foes, in a way some what similar to a falx?
2008davidkang I am glad you like the vid! The idea of holding the sword by the ring pommel is interesting and worth a shot (pun intended), but I am not aware of any pictorial or textual evidence to support this claim. Lanyards can definitely be useful. And some ring pommels certainly had them, but not all did. As for the hardened tip, it may act in a manner slightly similar to the falx, but I don’t see it being strong enough to make much difference against the heavy mild steel lamellar used in that period.
Regarding the issue about "anti-armour", I think it is a lot more complicated than it is or isn't. Just like the "horse chopper" 斬馬刀 isn't a weapon specifically designed for the anti-cavalry role, that doesn't mean it can't be effectively deployed against armoured cavalry with a certain tactic in a certain situation. It was a versatile weapon just like the crossbow. On the battlefield there were various types of troops. The hardest hitter for the Song army was the crossbowmen equipped with heavy crossbows, and then there were the troops equipped with polearms. Both were effective against the heavy armours and armoured cavalry when deployed correctively. The issue here is that the troops were not all equipped with the same weaponries. The crossbowmen didn't carry poplearms and poleram-men didn't carry a crossbow. Likewise, some troops carried the bar maces (mostly cavalrymen, I think) and some didn't, while at the same time they had to face all kinds of opponent troops in various situations. In Song, it was said that the crossbowmen would have to engage in melee along with other troops when the enemy came close and your own troops had to surge forward. (武經總要) That means while the crossbowmen's main weapon, and anti-armour at that, was the heavy crossbow, they need to have something to fight in the line as well, and they could face a whole variety of different troops in many types of armour and weapon sets. That means, in melee, they had to have some kind of weapon that is versatile, can go against different types of armours with certain effects, while not specifically designed and employed in the anti-armour role in melee, for that would the the job of other troops, the horse chopper wielders for example. You also wouldn't want to carries super heavy weapons that could hinder your main role as a crossbowman as well. In addition, since heavily armoured troops used heavy weaponries to go against opponent's heavy armours, bar maces, for example, you as the recipient would also need to have heavier and more robust weapons to defend yourself with, otherwise your weapon just wouldn't be ineffective in a defensive role. Therefore, while the shou dao may not be created specifically to be super effective in going through armours, it was designed with that context in mind. That's to say, while it wasn't the go-to weapon or super effective to go against heavy amour, it was still useful as a battlefield equipment as oppose to less robust types of dao. To offer an analogy, the Resistance War sabre in the Second Sino-Japanese War wasn't the best weapon to go again Japanese bayonet, or anti-bayonet per se; in fact, it wasn't really that good in the tactical context in that era. However, it was still effective enough given what they had and they could deploy it a somewhat effectively manner in the right situation. When the ROC troops had the choice and support from the US, they used the bayonet instead. That means while the shou dao might have lesser anti-armour capability than other weapons of the same period, it was designed with that context in mind. Just my interpretation.
Older comment but I appreciate the post and the thought you put into it. I agree mostly, It does seem like though the weapon was primarily designed to cut, you just are never going to cut steel lamellar armor, or chainmail, but that being said I'm sure many standard infantry were not decked out in top quality armor, only elite troops and nobility I imagine. This mirrors European martial combat incredibly closely and we see falchion's filling the same role. In Europe I imagine the average "knight" or armored noble would have much more likely dealt with regular people on a daily basis, that means walking around in public, traveling on the road, doing law enforcement work or settling disputes. A big terrifying chopper is actually ideal in that context, as something like a very dedicated longsword designed primarily to thrust might not be the ideal weapon choice in that context. Especially if most men you encountered on a daily basis were unarmored only simply wearing padded armor at most. We have to remember even though the wars were important, most men lived most of their lives never experiencing a war at all, or only experiencing one for a brief time. So as a daily carry side arm, it makes allot of sense.
The Ring Pommel is used in conjunction with a cloth to bind the user's hand to the sword, kinda like the lanyard. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Ming_war.png
The Song dao geometry is similar to an axe and the Tang-era Heng Dao.. During that time was also when Rings on the back of the dao first became popularised Highly interested to see how would the rings interact and how would it affect the handling of the blade.
I think that some ring pommel swords certainly had lanyards on them, but I don't think this can apply to all of them, and we don't have enough evidence to make definitive statements about the earliest ring pommel swords.
7:14 from image pulled from the lk chen website img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/af84e547-2fba-4a46-af06-dd73e29f1755/real_hand_guard.jpeg/:/cr=t:0%25,l:0%25,w:100%25,h:100%25/rs=w:2046,cg:true. You can see the handle imprint on the guard.
Here from scholargladitoria's recent vid. Nice work. I particularly enjoyed the double bottle trick. And I appreciate the nice pronunciation.
Thanks! Learning Chinese has been difficult, but immensely rewarding!
This is my longest video yet! I can just ramble about sword history for ages. In future sword reviews, I may try to break up the video into two parts: one about the history, and another about the actual item I received. Let me know if you would prefer it that way or not. And thanks for watching!
Great review! What’s the purpose of the point shaped counter intuitively like that? It doesn’t seem optimized for thrusting and stabbing.
@@nomanor7987 Some contemporary blades did have more of a point. I suspect that it may have been left off for a few reasons.
1. It can be harder to make a more durable spiked point without increasing the thickness of the blade which in turn would add even more mass.
2. They may have felt that it was too much trouble to try and thrust through heavy lamellar with a single handed sword. Most experts agree that lamellar is usually designed to counter archery and thus piercing attacks. So it may simply have been that stabbing through it was not practical with this wide blade. Also, in armored fighting using the percussive power of a thrust can still be helpful for off balancing the opponent and gaining initiative.
3. I suspect that making these swords with a clipped point would be relatively easy to manufacture when compared to other types of clipped points. When producing at a large scale, economy is very important.
That ~100g difference was there for me too - I brought it up with LK and they've since changed the website to a more appropriate weight :)
I bought one of these a few weeks ago - it cuts like a goddamn lightsaber honestly... I'm super impressed (and I am NOT experienced at all at cutting).
I also love the overall utilitarian aesthetic - nice and simple, and the important part (the blade) is damn near perfect.
Can definitely recommend for anyone after a robust, effective cutting blade :)
lightsaber 😂
Very interesting information ! 😀
I never really was interested in these types of swords......
Until now, I see them in a new light. 👍 and keep on rambling 😀.
Thank you for watching!
Great job Keith. Looking good.
I think I can take him in a 1v1
very cool review, thank you for directing me to this video
Thank you for watching!
Your Chinese are so good dude
I've been looking for a reproduction of the Republican Era Da Dao, but I can't find one I like. Do you think this sword is close enough in weight and balance to be a good substitute for the Da Dao?
Got a similar “grip bitting into the hand” feeling on the white arc. I also have the song hand dao and find it easy to move, forward heavy is just a different balance doesn’t necessarily mean a sword is hander to move.
Oh wow i didnt even know they made this! This sounds exciting.
Hi, nice review, but few things I have to point out: 1. The Chinese name of this sword's creator is "正楷", not 正皆; 2. Ring-Pommel sword handle actually never vanish in Chinese history, such sword handle is continually in used till Qing dynasty and today, you can even see ring-pommels on many Da Dao(抗戰大刀) during Second Sino-Japanese War and WW2 at 20th century.
MG47 Thank you for catching the typo! I will get that changed. As for ring pommels. I have another video in the works which talks about what became of the Song Hand Dao type of sword design. Yes, ring pommels continued to exist, but they were not nearly as popular as before and most Dao, especially single handed varients, did not have a ring pommel after the Song dynasty.
Wow I was just look for a review for this. Great vid btw
jack L glad you like it!
Great video! Would very much like to pick up an LK Chen sword, but it's so hard to pick which one. I had hoped this video would narrow my choices (by giving me reason not to want the Song Hand Dao), but no such luck...
It appears they do offer the Yan Ling Dao with a laminated blade (1065 & T9 pattern over an A3 core), albeit at about twice the price. Have you heard anything about this blade, or by any chance been able to handle one? For all the reviews of LK Chen online, I haven't found much about that blade.
I'm new to the channel, but look forward to working my way through. Great work!
I have not had a chance to handle the Yan Ling Dao yet, but stay tuned for that. I am also very interested in the traditional forge welded blade , and I can understand why it would cost more, but I hope to get my hands on one before too long.
Great video! I wonder if one could shoot whilst holding the dao through the pommel with a thumb draw, or maybe a lanyard thread through it, preventing it from being disarmed by accident due to fatigue or a bad strike.
Also the tip was hardened but it doesn't seem to be used for thrusting. Wonder if it was used to concentrate the power of a strike against armoured foes, in a way some what similar to a falx?
2008davidkang I am glad you like the vid! The idea of holding the sword by the ring pommel is interesting and worth a shot (pun intended), but I am not aware of any pictorial or textual evidence to support this claim.
Lanyards can definitely be useful. And some ring pommels certainly had them, but not all did.
As for the hardened tip, it may act in a manner slightly similar to the falx, but I don’t see it being strong enough to make much difference against the heavy mild steel lamellar used in that period.
if water bottles ever rise up against us, i'll know which sword to grab! seriously awesome video 😊
Jamie G 😂 You never know! Thanks for watching.
Historically if the blade was laminated with harder and softer steels, would they still be deferentially heated?
Regarding the issue about "anti-armour", I think it is a lot more complicated than it is or isn't. Just like the "horse chopper" 斬馬刀 isn't a weapon specifically designed for the anti-cavalry role, that doesn't mean it can't be effectively deployed against armoured cavalry with a certain tactic in a certain situation. It was a versatile weapon just like the crossbow.
On the battlefield there were various types of troops. The hardest hitter for the Song army was the crossbowmen equipped with heavy crossbows, and then there were the troops equipped with polearms. Both were effective against the heavy armours and armoured cavalry when deployed correctively.
The issue here is that the troops were not all equipped with the same weaponries. The crossbowmen didn't carry poplearms and poleram-men didn't carry a crossbow. Likewise, some troops carried the bar maces (mostly cavalrymen, I think) and some didn't, while at the same time they had to face all kinds of opponent troops in various situations. In Song, it was said that the crossbowmen would have to engage in melee along with other troops when the enemy came close and your own troops had to surge forward. (武經總要)
That means while the crossbowmen's main weapon, and anti-armour at that, was the heavy crossbow, they need to have something to fight in the line as well, and they could face a whole variety of different troops in many types of armour and weapon sets. That means, in melee, they had to have some kind of weapon that is versatile, can go against different types of armours with certain effects, while not specifically designed and employed in the anti-armour role in melee, for that would the the job of other troops, the horse chopper wielders for example. You also wouldn't want to carries super heavy weapons that could hinder your main role as a crossbowman as well.
In addition, since heavily armoured troops used heavy weaponries to go against opponent's heavy armours, bar maces, for example, you as the recipient would also need to have heavier and more robust weapons to defend yourself with, otherwise your weapon just wouldn't be ineffective in a defensive role.
Therefore, while the shou dao may not be created specifically to be super effective in going through armours, it was designed with that context in mind. That's to say, while it wasn't the go-to weapon or super effective to go against heavy amour, it was still useful as a battlefield equipment as oppose to less robust types of dao.
To offer an analogy, the Resistance War sabre in the Second Sino-Japanese War wasn't the best weapon to go again Japanese bayonet, or anti-bayonet per se; in fact, it wasn't really that good in the tactical context in that era. However, it was still effective enough given what they had and they could deploy it a somewhat effectively manner in the right situation. When the ROC troops had the choice and support from the US, they used the bayonet instead.
That means while the shou dao might have lesser anti-armour capability than other weapons of the same period, it was designed with that context in mind.
Just my interpretation.
Older comment but I appreciate the post and the thought you put into it. I agree mostly, It does seem like though the weapon was primarily designed to cut, you just are never going to cut steel lamellar armor, or chainmail, but that being said I'm sure many standard infantry were not decked out in top quality armor, only elite troops and nobility I imagine. This mirrors European martial combat incredibly closely and we see falchion's filling the same role. In Europe I imagine the average "knight" or armored noble would have much more likely dealt with regular people on a daily basis, that means walking around in public, traveling on the road, doing law enforcement work or settling disputes. A big terrifying chopper is actually ideal in that context, as something like a very dedicated longsword designed primarily to thrust might not be the ideal weapon choice in that context. Especially if most men you encountered on a daily basis were unarmored only simply wearing padded armor at most. We have to remember even though the wars were important, most men lived most of their lives never experiencing a war at all, or only experiencing one for a brief time. So as a daily carry side arm, it makes allot of sense.
The Ring Pommel is used in conjunction with a cloth to bind the user's hand to the sword, kinda like the lanyard.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Ming_war.png
The Song dao geometry is similar to an axe and the Tang-era Heng Dao..
During that time was also when Rings on the back of the dao first became popularised
Highly interested to see how would the rings interact and how would it affect the handling of the blade.
I think that some ring pommel swords certainly had lanyards on them, but I don't think this can apply to all of them, and we don't have enough evidence to make definitive statements about the earliest ring pommel swords.
Great review video. Are you the same Scholar-General user who posts on TW forums and/or Historum forums?
Intranet I am glad you like the video! I have accounts on various forums on the internet, but none of them have the same name as this channel.
7:14 from image pulled from the lk chen website img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/af84e547-2fba-4a46-af06-dd73e29f1755/real_hand_guard.jpeg/:/cr=t:0%25,l:0%25,w:100%25,h:100%25/rs=w:2046,cg:true. You can see the handle imprint on the guard.