Noticed right away my Magneto X seemingly has zero stringing with PETG after printing an Orca Slicer temp tower. Wasn’t sure what Voodoo was done in the profile to achieve this, so now I have something to go on. Thanks!
I deactivated z-hop for a while, but then I had nasty lines in top surfaces due to the travel moves of the hot nozzle. Since then I have been working with a very small z-hop (0.1 mm) on my SV06. If it weren't for these nasty lines on the top surfaces, I would also deactivate z-hop.
@@SmallBatchFactory It's honestly ridiculous there isn't an option for "Z-hop on top surfaces only" already. They have the top only option when you have general Z-hop enabled, but is not the same. Having to define a lift Z above height for every print is silly.
@802Garage definitely! There's something like that for ironing already "top layer only" and "every top surface" so it shouldn't be too hard to implement
@@802Garage Orca slicer has this option... z-hop enforcement can be set to top only, bottom only, both, all surfaces, or can be set above / below certain heights.
@@markwebcraft If that is how it works, it's very unclear. My understanding of the settings chain is that if "Z hop when retracting" is on, it will always Z hop when retracting unless "Only lift Z above" or "Only lift Z below" settings are active. Beyond that, the "On surfaces" setting specifies which surfaces the Z hop is allowed to occur on along with general Z hop. So if "Top only" was selected, it would do all of the normal Z hops, including on top surfaces, but not on bottom surfaces. Now that I look again and work through it logically though, there would be no reason for the "Top and Bottom" setting since that would be the same as not choosing the option at all, and I also see now the default setting is "All Surfaces" so you must be correct. Thank you for clearing that up. I had been looking at the settings before writing my prior comment, but definitely missed that logical chain. I feel like the setting should be called "Only on surfaces" or "Exclude Z hop on surfaces" or something more specific, but now it does make more sense. Glad to have that knowledge and now Mr. SmallBatchFactory can put it in a video as well! It's obvious from comments on this and many other videos that a lot of people don't know this is how the setting works or that it exists. Thanks again.
You’re absolutely right with the key messages in the video - however ramp and spiral z hop modes have solved the stringing issue. So it’s less of a compromise as it used to be
Yep. People use Z-hop way more than is necessary and it causes more problems than it solves in many cases. Dialing in extrusion rate first is the best way to avoid needing lots of other bandaid solutions.
I guess a lot of predefined profiles use it and people don't stray much from that since "the manufacturer should know best". At least that's what it was for me with the Prusa profiles for years.
@@SmallBatchFactory Yeah it's def in most stock profiles. Probably because of old knowledge and also they know most people aren't gonna tune their extrusion so they'd rather have the bandaid ready, hahaha. Less people complaining.
Definitely for bandaid reasons. So many models result in curled overhangs and with Z-Hop they usually avoid complete failure and therefore frustration. Since many people seem to be happy with really bad prints everybody is happy. Seriously, you should've seen some of the face shields that were donated when Covid hit, we had a lot already breaking when the clear shield was added...
@@SmallBatchFactory Yeah unfortunately. I'm not surprised. A lot of the 3D printing community doesn't know what's possible with well tuned prints. Keep spreading the knowledge!
@802Garage will do! When I started I constantly thought "everybody knows that already" but it couldn't be farther from the truth. So many things still need to be spread
And that checkbox just got unchecked! Thanks for this. I thought I had real filament issues since my stringing became worse when I started using Z Hop.
I'm still running an Ender 5 with dual Z and can say that it's slow enough that z-hop has never been an issue. Also tuning the feed rate did amazing things with getting rid of stringing. Loved the video. Gives me a few things to consider when I get around to building the Ratrig.
This seems aimed at PETG 😅. Here's what I recently learned for PETG: 1. Set fan cooling to 30% or less unless bridging 2. Set retraction to about 1.8 mm 3. SET INFILL SPEED AND ALL SPEED TO LESS THAN OR EQUAL TO 60 mm/s. 4. Use an infill that crosses over it's own lines very seldomly (like gyroid). PETG tends to over extrude when the nozzle starts at a postion due to oozing and infills that require crossing lines stop extruding and start extruding incredibly frequently. It's also helpful to print a temp tower with your PETG to dial in the best temperature. And avoid crossing perimeters just for an extra layer of safety. It's also important to point out that MOST of the time you get a layer shift, it is because of bad bed adhesion on a large print. A corner will start to peel off and the whole print will lift just enough to snag the nozzle. I've found that using brims and printing the first layer 5 to 10 degrees hotter really keeps parts snug on the build plate - a texured build plate is chef's kiss for PETG btw. Finally, before you print PETG for the first time, do yourself a favor and get a silcon sock for your hotend just in case you end up with PETG spaghetti that stuff is a nightmare to get off your hotend AND can destroy your heating element and thermistor if it wicks into them (which it likes to do). You do all of this and you shouldn't need z-hop.
These are all helpful tipps! Retraction distance and speed is machine dependent but the rest is general. The part about the silicone sock is really important. I still have PETG remains from my humble beginnings
Agree except I never cared much about infill. Yes, something like 10% infill crossing itself does not have any strength, but for my prints it has only function of support. But what I found as an issue for PETG and even more PCTG is that even when it does not seem overextruded, some tiny parts can stick to nozzle and then they are imprinted to random places causing small defects in walls. These small "breadcrumbs" of filaments are likely from overhangs, seams and failed first layers of bridges. It feels like I have to use at least 0.16mm layers to print bridges from PCTG or print them slower with more cooling otherwise it's something like spiderweb with droplets.
@@pavelperina7629 Yes blobbing on the nozzle is a problem. It has 4 main fixes: 1. Do a temp tower. Blobbing is often caused by printing too high. You have stringing from where extrusion stops; it leaves a Hersey's Kiss of plastic. This can be picked up over time. Also a higher temp can cause the PETG to wick around the side of the nozzle because it is too runny - it is attracted to heat like solder on clean copper. If it is printed at lower temp it should be more viscous and resist curling around the side of the nozzle. 2. Type of nozzle matters. Mine is a daimondback 0.6 mm. Admittedly, it is not the best to print PETG because it has a somewhat beefy nozzle rim that can drag along freshly extruded PETG and pick it up off the print sometimes. The key is to have a really sharp, narrow angle brass nozzle for best performance. I made mine work but i know it would be better with a nozzle that has less surface area contact with the print. 3. Making sure the filament is dry. 4. Even if infill is sparse, doing an infill that has line crossing will likely cause blobbing over time. I got mine dialed in to where it prints smooth as butter and boy am I happy. I'm using matter hackers white.
When I started 3D printing, Z-hop wasn't even a thing. It was very long ago. I started using it to avoid knocking over fragile supports and fragile and thin print parts. I often use extra fluffy supports with extrusion width smaller than nozzle size by a lot. I usually dial in nearly homeopathic amount of Z-hop of like 0.1mm and use diagonal Z-hop in Orca to overlap the vertical and horizontal movements to waste less time on it.
regarding abs. i get stronger layer adhesion with fan off than on. from 10-30% works fine with x1c, anything more than that and the layers separate very easy. i had so many hours wasted tuning filament for stringing, after i started drying all filament before use i never deviate from standard anymore. it just works out of the box imo. i will keep this information about the speed part and layershifts. i dont get layershifts on my rig,YET... so good to have this information going forwards :) cheers mate. regarding rigid toolheads. it seems that the toolhead on the bambu lab x1c i very rigid. i cant move mine even with quite some force..
It's a thin line with cooling. Not cooling is the best for layer adhesion and on the other hand it means going painfully slow or risking printing a blob. I've also noticed older filament which absorped some moisture is a sure way to more stringing. Layershifts are often also the result of loose belts.
@@SmallBatchFactory It is a knifes edge imo. then lets not speak of warping off the sharps corners if the fan setting is too low, no matter how slow we go it WILL curl.. with the right temp/speed/fan setting this is mitigated to an acceptable level. i find that abs is very underrated for its properties and its one of my favorite prototyping materials that often end up as an adhoc/permanent solution :) i found that blue abs needs more cooling than white for some reason. also the retraction needs to be 10-20% longer. gotta like these "modern" slicers that make it easy to access all the settings i want :) i remember retractions being a firmware option. old man...
@reyalPRON ABS is my absolute favorite. I think I even said that in a video. The smell is horrible but the surface is just so cool to touch and the properties are great. For me it eben became easier to print than PETG. I rather deal with warping than strings
I’ve been using the spiral z-hop (which tends not to string) on my ender 3 v2 since switching to orcaslicer from Cura. I think the quality was the same or better between the two slicers, but I should probably do an A/B test for just z-hop…
like any option.. Many reasons to use it, Many reasons not to use it. If you get layer shifts with z-hop, you have other issues or a fundamental design problem. I've moved to Slope z-hop with wipe off on Orca Slicer, best of both worlds IMO. Currently playing with the Auto option, it's interesting. Also, if you're over extruding when printing infill for added strength it's knarly when the print head moves over the printed areas.
I just want z hop for better chance of not hitting warped edges. I'd rather have my print a bit slower than have it failed because I wanted to save 10 minutes
That's true. Warped edges are mostly forseeable so only activate it for models where I can't avoid them. Having 45° overhangs max and dialed in cooling mitigates them completely.
I never use it - too much movement on the z-axis seems like fixing something that isn't broken. Avoid crossing perimeters and hand coded z-hops over any travel moves that cross the top surfaces is the way to go.
Hand coding z hops? Nahhh that's way too much work. I've just got my extrusion tuned in good enough that I don't get stringing with the ZHop. Also too much movement for an axis? Just keep it well lubed ya good to go.
Good approach! I started with the Prusa profiles back in 2018 and they all have Z-Hop activated. Many people just stick with that and never even think about it
That's what i had to do WAAY back in 2012, as z-hop wasn't a thing and printing ABS was defiantly a challenge. I had tower models specifically to place where i knew it would make the tool head move out of the way. I also always printed ABS with a skirt all the way up the model to keep heat and prevent warping, which also helped avoid crossing perimeters.
@@SmallBatchFactory I used to work exclusively in Cura, which has the "Avoid printed parts when travelling" option - and it works great. PrusaSlicer is a bit limited in that category and doesn't always avoid crossing top surfaces, but if you play around with the settings, you can get it to the point that you only need a couple of manual z-hops for a good print. *edit: I'm printing a clear PETG tough-box - PrusaSlicer is my preferred slicer for square stuff - by the time my profile was ready for g-code export, I had only 1 z-hop to deal with.
@@SmallBatchFactory Also maybe I’m just lucky and there are a ton of other printer and filament combinations out there. As an example, the net is full of complaints about BambuLab basic PETG and BambuLab quit it. I don’t recognised it and bought some rolls short before the end. I never had any problems with it using the standard settings without any calibration.
Depends on the printer. If it doesn't come with pre defined profiles just start slow and see how it turns out. A bit of retraction is recommended (depends on bowden or direct drive extruder). You can also do 0.5mm Z-Hop and see if the prints turn out good. Brand new filament is not as prone to stringing as spools open for a while are.
@@SmallBatchFactory Hmmm. Maybe what you refer as old filament is humidity? I bought an A1 Mini because it was 200 bucks which is cheap by what it offers.
@@SmallBatchFactory Maybe I misunderstood the video then. Did you manage to get super fast zhop on your v0 such that it doesn't slow down your printing?
Not high enough to mitigate the lag completely. I also turned up X/Y acceleration a lot. I think you can never get it to zero with straight Z-Hop, maybe with a sloped one. Since it runs completely fine without it I didn't bother trying though
"Slower" is literally about 10ms per hop for me. Not nothing, but small. The way slicers do z hop is dumb af, but it could be smart: moving with no hop until outside starting part, moving up linearly until crossing into dest part, then descending linearly to target point. And this would have zero time cost, on top of being immune to stringing.
Ive always used Z hop, setting hop speed to 60mm/s and a hop height to 0.2mm on my ender 3, and printing with a 0.2mm nozzle at 0.05mm layers has been absolutely beautiful. I havent ever seen any benefit to disabling z hop... and never seen any cons to enabling it, no matter what nozzles I use (Besides nozzle sizes above 0.4, which I have grown to hate with a flaming passion. Those thicker nozzles have a little more stringing with z hop.)
There are a lot of details to consider. Stringing of Filament that's not fully dry can be mitigated to some degree for example. If it works for you it's totally fine. Printing PETG with a 1mm Nozzle on a bowden system is a lot of fun (not...)
@SmallBatchFactory Lol, truth to all that... Petg is an awesome material... But so, sooo gummy.... I keep my filament in a dryer pretty much all the time, so that has helped me a bunch, I think... But yeah, I do not think I will ever get a printer that does not support easily swappable nozzles, and does not have 0.2mm nozzles available. It prints slow, sure... but heavens, i do not care when things come out so beautifully, smooth and crisp... that said... I need to try and experiment with the notes mentioned in the vid. Maybe I am missing something and tweaking or even disabling z hop will make my prints even better with the 0.2 nozzle... Or at the very least shave off a little time...
There's probably room to improve. Not much with play but with PETG or even TPU for sure. I needed to print replacement nose pads for my glasses since the OEM went out of business years ago. Printing in TPU with a 0.2mm Nozzle I got jams when using retraction so I needed to go without them. Without Z Hop stringing was a bit less of a issue. There's also a thin but interesting line where you print just fast enough to not let the print fully cool so you get a soft result instead of crisp and sharp with TPU. Makes skin contact infinitely less irritating.
@SmallBatchFactory Agreed, there is always room for learning and improvement... always. Oh, Tpu in a 0.2mm... That... Oof... I can imagine that is quite a nightmare without a lot of tuning, but that is a very good point on the speed... Huh... I need to get myself some new tpu and try it out... Oh hell, you just sent me down a rabbithole... :)
@umbratherios5614 apart from the retraction issue it was actually pretty easy to do. Had the most headaches with getting results that didn't scratch my nose. And even then I did some post processing with a soldering iron. Did it on my Voron 0.2, the Prusa mk3 prints TPU a bit easier in my experience and usually does retraction pretty well.
Orca slicers allows you to set the z-hop type which wasn't even mentioned... The slope or spiral lift types both are designed to greatly reduce the stringing your referring to as being so bad with it on. Most printers have really high travel move speeds / accelerations which also can also cause the nozzle to contact the print. At best, this will cause gouging on surfaces or could even knock a print loose. Granted, this effects bed slingers way more than corexy printers... I think its just your printers that do not benefit from z-hop, but others certainly will. Z-hop is a must have for my printer and only improves the quality of the prints coming off. I think your being a little naive to its usefulness in some peoples situations.
Slope and spiral lift are explained in detail in the Slicer tuning video I recommend at the end. If your Nozzle gets caught the printer is either flexing horribly or it overextrudes.
@@SmallBatchFactory TBH since you asked us _in this video_ to comment if you forgot something it sure feels a bit disingenious to point to a _different_ video, if somebody actually takes you up on that. If you want to make a video damning z-hop you should've included why the mentioned alternatives aren't better.
Learn Fusion 360 the easy way: smallbatchfactory.com/fusion-360-fundamentals
comment for engagement purposes to make the algorithm happy
If I use organic/tree supports, it's a near 100% certainty that one or more branches will get dislodged/broken off if I have z-hop turned off.
That's why it's in the "good reasons" category. If you use a large brim it usually works out, but that's also a lot of filament wasted.
@@SmallBatchFactory Ah, sorry I missed that part.
yeah i get knocked support too when deactivate zhop, its not even a tree support, maybe some idea how to avoid that?
@andrikurniawan531 if the issue is that it's separating from the print bed you can increase the base contact area of the infill
Noticed right away my Magneto X seemingly has zero stringing with PETG after printing an Orca Slicer temp tower. Wasn’t sure what Voodoo was done in the profile to achieve this, so now I have something to go on. Thanks!
Sometimes a tiny change makes a huge improvement
I deactivated z-hop for a while, but then I had nasty lines in top surfaces due to the travel moves of the hot nozzle. Since then I have been working with a very small z-hop (0.1 mm) on my SV06. If it weren't for these nasty lines on the top surfaces, I would also deactivate z-hop.
If you have a large, flat top you can use the shwon "only use Z-Hop above" feature. "Avoid crossing perimeters" might also help.
@@SmallBatchFactory It's honestly ridiculous there isn't an option for "Z-hop on top surfaces only" already. They have the top only option when you have general Z-hop enabled, but is not the same. Having to define a lift Z above height for every print is silly.
@802Garage definitely! There's something like that for ironing already "top layer only" and "every top surface" so it shouldn't be too hard to implement
@@802Garage Orca slicer has this option... z-hop enforcement can be set to top only, bottom only, both, all surfaces, or can be set above / below certain heights.
@@markwebcraft If that is how it works, it's very unclear. My understanding of the settings chain is that if "Z hop when retracting" is on, it will always Z hop when retracting unless "Only lift Z above" or "Only lift Z below" settings are active. Beyond that, the "On surfaces" setting specifies which surfaces the Z hop is allowed to occur on along with general Z hop. So if "Top only" was selected, it would do all of the normal Z hops, including on top surfaces, but not on bottom surfaces.
Now that I look again and work through it logically though, there would be no reason for the "Top and Bottom" setting since that would be the same as not choosing the option at all, and I also see now the default setting is "All Surfaces" so you must be correct. Thank you for clearing that up. I had been looking at the settings before writing my prior comment, but definitely missed that logical chain.
I feel like the setting should be called "Only on surfaces" or "Exclude Z hop on surfaces" or something more specific, but now it does make more sense. Glad to have that knowledge and now Mr. SmallBatchFactory can put it in a video as well! It's obvious from comments on this and many other videos that a lot of people don't know this is how the setting works or that it exists. Thanks again.
You’re absolutely right with the key messages in the video - however ramp and spiral z hop modes have solved the stringing issue. So it’s less of a compromise as it used to be
Definitely. I mention those modes in the Slicer tuning video
Yep. People use Z-hop way more than is necessary and it causes more problems than it solves in many cases. Dialing in extrusion rate first is the best way to avoid needing lots of other bandaid solutions.
I guess a lot of predefined profiles use it and people don't stray much from that since "the manufacturer should know best". At least that's what it was for me with the Prusa profiles for years.
@@SmallBatchFactory Yeah it's def in most stock profiles. Probably because of old knowledge and also they know most people aren't gonna tune their extrusion so they'd rather have the bandaid ready, hahaha. Less people complaining.
Definitely for bandaid reasons. So many models result in curled overhangs and with Z-Hop they usually avoid complete failure and therefore frustration. Since many people seem to be happy with really bad prints everybody is happy. Seriously, you should've seen some of the face shields that were donated when Covid hit, we had a lot already breaking when the clear shield was added...
@@SmallBatchFactory Yeah unfortunately. I'm not surprised. A lot of the 3D printing community doesn't know what's possible with well tuned prints. Keep spreading the knowledge!
@802Garage will do! When I started I constantly thought "everybody knows that already" but it couldn't be farther from the truth. So many things still need to be spread
And that checkbox just got unchecked! Thanks for this. I thought I had real filament issues since my stringing became worse when I started using Z Hop.
I'm glad I could help
I'm still running an Ender 5 with dual Z and can say that it's slow enough that z-hop has never been an issue. Also tuning the feed rate did amazing things with getting rid of stringing. Loved the video. Gives me a few things to consider when I get around to building the Ratrig.
Good luck with your build! Building and setting up your own machine is a very cool endeavour
The question doesn't have to be if Z-hop is an issue, but if it's necessary in the first place!
This seems aimed at PETG 😅. Here's what I recently learned for PETG:
1. Set fan cooling to 30% or less unless bridging
2. Set retraction to about 1.8 mm
3. SET INFILL SPEED AND ALL SPEED TO LESS THAN OR EQUAL TO 60 mm/s.
4. Use an infill that crosses over it's own lines very seldomly (like gyroid). PETG tends to over extrude when the nozzle starts at a postion due to oozing and infills that require crossing lines stop extruding and start extruding incredibly frequently.
It's also helpful to print a temp tower with your PETG to dial in the best temperature.
And avoid crossing perimeters just for an extra layer of safety.
It's also important to point out that MOST of the time you get a layer shift, it is because of bad bed adhesion on a large print. A corner will start to peel off and the whole print will lift just enough to snag the nozzle. I've found that using brims and printing the first layer 5 to 10 degrees hotter really keeps parts snug on the build plate - a texured build plate is chef's kiss for PETG btw.
Finally, before you print PETG for the first time, do yourself a favor and get a silcon sock for your hotend just in case you end up with PETG spaghetti that stuff is a nightmare to get off your hotend AND can destroy your heating element and thermistor if it wicks into them (which it likes to do).
You do all of this and you shouldn't need z-hop.
These are all helpful tipps! Retraction distance and speed is machine dependent but the rest is general.
The part about the silicone sock is really important. I still have PETG remains from my humble beginnings
Agree except I never cared much about infill. Yes, something like 10% infill crossing itself does not have any strength, but for my prints it has only function of support. But what I found as an issue for PETG and even more PCTG is that even when it does not seem overextruded, some tiny parts can stick to nozzle and then they are imprinted to random places causing small defects in walls. These small "breadcrumbs" of filaments are likely from overhangs, seams and failed first layers of bridges. It feels like I have to use at least 0.16mm layers to print bridges from PCTG or print them slower with more cooling otherwise it's something like spiderweb with droplets.
@@pavelperina7629 Yes blobbing on the nozzle is a problem. It has 4 main fixes:
1. Do a temp tower. Blobbing is often caused by printing too high. You have stringing from where extrusion stops; it leaves a Hersey's Kiss of plastic. This can be picked up over time. Also a higher temp can cause the PETG to wick around the side of the nozzle because it is too runny - it is attracted to heat like solder on clean copper. If it is printed at lower temp it should be more viscous and resist curling around the side of the nozzle.
2. Type of nozzle matters. Mine is a daimondback 0.6 mm. Admittedly, it is not the best to print PETG because it has a somewhat beefy nozzle rim that can drag along freshly extruded PETG and pick it up off the print sometimes. The key is to have a really sharp, narrow angle brass nozzle for best performance. I made mine work but i know it would be better with a nozzle that has less surface area contact with the print.
3. Making sure the filament is dry.
4. Even if infill is sparse, doing an infill that has line crossing will likely cause blobbing over time.
I got mine dialed in to where it prints smooth as butter and boy am I happy. I'm using matter hackers white.
Thanks for sharing 🙏
When I started 3D printing, Z-hop wasn't even a thing. It was very long ago.
I started using it to avoid knocking over fragile supports and fragile and thin print parts. I often use extra fluffy supports with extrusion width smaller than nozzle size by a lot.
I usually dial in nearly homeopathic amount of Z-hop of like 0.1mm and use diagonal Z-hop in Orca to overlap the vertical and horizontal movements to waste less time on it.
Perfect prints here with z hop enabled.
K2 max
0.6mm hop
230mms print speed
35mm³s max volumetric flow rate.
That's nice! It seems to happen more with filament that absorbed a bit for moisture.
regarding abs. i get stronger layer adhesion with fan off than on. from 10-30% works fine with x1c, anything more than that and the layers separate very easy. i had so many hours wasted tuning filament for stringing, after i started drying all filament before use i never deviate from standard anymore. it just works out of the box imo.
i will keep this information about the speed part and layershifts. i dont get layershifts on my rig,YET... so good to have this information going forwards :) cheers mate.
regarding rigid toolheads. it seems that the toolhead on the bambu lab x1c i very rigid. i cant move mine even with quite some force..
It's a thin line with cooling. Not cooling is the best for layer adhesion and on the other hand it means going painfully slow or risking printing a blob.
I've also noticed older filament which absorped some moisture is a sure way to more stringing.
Layershifts are often also the result of loose belts.
@@SmallBatchFactory It is a knifes edge imo. then lets not speak of warping off the sharps corners if the fan setting is too low, no matter how slow we go it WILL curl.. with the right temp/speed/fan setting this is mitigated to an acceptable level. i find that abs is very underrated for its properties and its one of my favorite prototyping materials that often end up as an adhoc/permanent solution :)
i found that blue abs needs more cooling than white for some reason. also the retraction needs to be 10-20% longer. gotta like these "modern" slicers that make it easy to access all the settings i want :) i remember retractions being a firmware option. old man...
@reyalPRON ABS is my absolute favorite. I think I even said that in a video. The smell is horrible but the surface is just so cool to touch and the properties are great. For me it eben became easier to print than PETG. I rather deal with warping than strings
I’ve been using the spiral z-hop (which tends not to string) on my ender 3 v2 since switching to orcaslicer from Cura. I think the quality was the same or better between the two slicers, but I should probably do an A/B test for just z-hop…
Maybe a little wipe distance can help. I mention all that in the Slicer tuning video
I'm with the others, if I have tree supports that are long, I'm using Z hop, otherwise I only use on the top layers
Totally fine, that's why I listed it under "good reasons"
I like the way you say "Z"
🇨🇦 o7
Great video! Seems like it may be a good opportunity to utilize a parallelogram flexure mechanism that is controlled via electromagnet.
I can't imagine how that would look. But it sounds cool!
like any option.. Many reasons to use it, Many reasons not to use it. If you get layer shifts with z-hop, you have other issues or a fundamental design problem. I've moved to Slope z-hop with wipe off on Orca Slicer, best of both worlds IMO. Currently playing with the Auto option, it's interesting. Also, if you're over extruding when printing infill for added strength it's knarly when the print head moves over the printed areas.
Exactly the things I mentioned. Wipe is really helpful whether you have it in or off.
Nice I got a shoutout! But I don’t remember asking. But, it’s something I would ask. Ok going back to watching now.
it took me 2 months from the comment to making this video so you're excudes :-) imgur.com/a/pIfvvzT
I just want z hop for better chance of not hitting warped edges. I'd rather have my print a bit slower than have it failed because I wanted to save 10 minutes
That's true. Warped edges are mostly forseeable so only activate it for models where I can't avoid them. Having 45° overhangs max and dialed in cooling mitigates them completely.
I've never used z-hop in all my years of 3d printing... people use z-hop?
Most default profiles have it enabled "just to be save"
I never use it - too much movement on the z-axis seems like fixing something that isn't broken. Avoid crossing perimeters and hand coded z-hops over any travel moves that cross the top surfaces is the way to go.
Hand coding z hops? Nahhh that's way too much work. I've just got my extrusion tuned in good enough that I don't get stringing with the ZHop. Also too much movement for an axis? Just keep it well lubed ya good to go.
Good approach! I started with the Prusa profiles back in 2018 and they all have Z-Hop activated. Many people just stick with that and never even think about it
That's what i had to do WAAY back in 2012, as z-hop wasn't a thing and printing ABS was defiantly a challenge. I had tower models specifically to place where i knew it would make the tool head move out of the way. I also always printed ABS with a skirt all the way up the model to keep heat and prevent warping, which also helped avoid crossing perimeters.
@@SmallBatchFactory I used to work exclusively in Cura, which has the "Avoid printed parts when travelling" option - and it works great. PrusaSlicer is a bit limited in that category and doesn't always avoid crossing top surfaces, but if you play around with the settings, you can get it to the point that you only need a couple of manual z-hops for a good print. *edit: I'm printing a clear PETG tough-box - PrusaSlicer is my preferred slicer for square stuff - by the time my profile was ready for g-code export, I had only 1 z-hop to deal with.
I never really used Z-hop on my Klippered ender 3. When I got my Bambu Labs P1S I just left z-hop on.
A lot of default profiles come with Z Hop enabled. As long as it works that's fine.
I use it and got amazing prints ever since and no prints knocked right off the bed so I will continue to use z hop.
Totally fine if it works for you. I've been using it for a long time, the speed penalty is what lead me to turn it off.
Most likely you are slightly over extruding. Very common.
Zero PETG strings on my BambuLab with z hop enabled and even avoid crossing walls.
It's not as if you get guaranteed stringing with Z-Hop, it's just probably helping if you have stringing issues.
@@SmallBatchFactory Also maybe I’m just lucky and there are a ton of other printer and filament combinations out there.
As an example, the net is full of complaints about BambuLab basic PETG and BambuLab quit it. I don’t recognised it and bought some rolls short before the end. I never had any problems with it using the standard settings without any calibration.
I have it on for top surface only, gonna pay for extra 10 seconds of print time to make top surfaces clean
That's a good compromise
Tiny z-hop with high retraction would work?
My first 3dprinter comes in 2 weeks i'm exited.
Depends on the printer. If it doesn't come with pre defined profiles just start slow and see how it turns out. A bit of retraction is recommended (depends on bowden or direct drive extruder). You can also do 0.5mm Z-Hop and see if the prints turn out good. Brand new filament is not as prone to stringing as spools open for a while are.
@@SmallBatchFactory Hmmm. Maybe what you refer as old filament is humidity?
I bought an A1 Mini because it was 200 bucks which is cheap by what it offers.
That's what I mean, filament that absorbed some moisture. Of course it can be dried again.
You can speed up your z-accels on a V0.2 a lot more than the default config with no issues. I'm at 400 with no issues and a default setup.
My ender is set for 90 mm/s, 750 mm/s² accel on zhop.
@@daliasprints9798 But he isn't using an Ender.
I've already set it way higher than the default, the movement speed too. Otherwise it takes ages to home the bed.
@@SmallBatchFactory Maybe I misunderstood the video then. Did you manage to get super fast zhop on your v0 such that it doesn't slow down your printing?
Not high enough to mitigate the lag completely. I also turned up X/Y acceleration a lot. I think you can never get it to zero with straight Z-Hop, maybe with a sloped one. Since it runs completely fine without it I didn't bother trying though
"Slower" is literally about 10ms per hop for me. Not nothing, but small. The way slicers do z hop is dumb af, but it could be smart: moving with no hop until outside starting part, moving up linearly until crossing into dest part, then descending linearly to target point. And this would have zero time cost, on top of being immune to stringing.
Sloped lift does that to some degree.
Ive always used Z hop, setting hop speed to 60mm/s and a hop height to 0.2mm on my ender 3, and printing with a 0.2mm nozzle at 0.05mm layers has been absolutely beautiful. I havent ever seen any benefit to disabling z hop... and never seen any cons to enabling it, no matter what nozzles I use (Besides nozzle sizes above 0.4, which I have grown to hate with a flaming passion. Those thicker nozzles have a little more stringing with z hop.)
There are a lot of details to consider. Stringing of Filament that's not fully dry can be mitigated to some degree for example. If it works for you it's totally fine.
Printing PETG with a 1mm Nozzle on a bowden system is a lot of fun (not...)
@SmallBatchFactory Lol, truth to all that... Petg is an awesome material... But so, sooo gummy....
I keep my filament in a dryer pretty much all the time, so that has helped me a bunch, I think... But yeah, I do not think I will ever get a printer that does not support easily swappable nozzles, and does not have 0.2mm nozzles available. It prints slow, sure... but heavens, i do not care when things come out so beautifully, smooth and crisp...
that said... I need to try and experiment with the notes mentioned in the vid. Maybe I am missing something and tweaking or even disabling z hop will make my prints even better with the 0.2 nozzle... Or at the very least shave off a little time...
There's probably room to improve. Not much with play but with PETG or even TPU for sure.
I needed to print replacement nose pads for my glasses since the OEM went out of business years ago. Printing in TPU with a 0.2mm Nozzle I got jams when using retraction so I needed to go without them. Without Z Hop stringing was a bit less of a issue. There's also a thin but interesting line where you print just fast enough to not let the print fully cool so you get a soft result instead of crisp and sharp with TPU. Makes skin contact infinitely less irritating.
@SmallBatchFactory Agreed, there is always room for learning and improvement... always.
Oh, Tpu in a 0.2mm... That... Oof... I can imagine that is quite a nightmare without a lot of tuning, but that is a very good point on the speed... Huh... I need to get myself some new tpu and try it out... Oh hell, you just sent me down a rabbithole... :)
@umbratherios5614 apart from the retraction issue it was actually pretty easy to do. Had the most headaches with getting results that didn't scratch my nose. And even then I did some post processing with a soldering iron. Did it on my Voron 0.2, the Prusa mk3 prints TPU a bit easier in my experience and usually does retraction pretty well.
Wait... there are people who turn Z-Hop on?
Possibly. Most just leave it enabled in their stock profiles and never question it.
In the era of ender 3 3pro times, I mean one side zscrew desing. x axis always tend to lean right side. In those years, it was almost must.
Interestingly I never had any issues like that with my first gen CR-10. In the age of mesh bed leveling it's fortunately not as big of a deal anymore.
I don't have any issues even when pushing speed on an Ender 3. Need to have the Z-axis tuned well so it doesn't have a lot of play.
I'm interested in a printer to make Knife Scales for my own knives. Any ideas?
If you want to hear a specific machine, buy a Prusa i3 mk4.
Orca slicers allows you to set the z-hop type which wasn't even mentioned... The slope or spiral lift types both are designed to greatly reduce the stringing your referring to as being so bad with it on. Most printers have really high travel move speeds / accelerations which also can also cause the nozzle to contact the print. At best, this will cause gouging on surfaces or could even knock a print loose. Granted, this effects bed slingers way more than corexy printers...
I think its just your printers that do not benefit from z-hop, but others certainly will. Z-hop is a must have for my printer and only improves the quality of the prints coming off. I think your being a little naive to its usefulness in some peoples situations.
Slope and spiral lift are explained in detail in the Slicer tuning video I recommend at the end. If your Nozzle gets caught the printer is either flexing horribly or it overextrudes.
@@SmallBatchFactory TBH since you asked us _in this video_ to comment if you forgot something it sure feels a bit disingenious to point to a _different_ video, if somebody actually takes you up on that. If you want to make a video damning z-hop you should've included why the mentioned alternatives aren't better.
It's a video about why you usually don't need Z-Hop so there's no reason to mention different types of Z-Hop you don't need
z hop has always been a waste of time