Forgot 1 thing... Finger tips only on the controls... gripping the stick and throttle has the tendency for you to tense up... tense muscles tend to react slower and over compensate... if you are not confident in flying with finger tips only... then the issue is just in your head... your head already told you that you can't do it even before you started.... you will need to overcome that
Try doing finger tips only when using the Thrustmaster A-10C / F-16C joystick. Great video tho’ still suck at ARR but I keep practising, just not consistent 😂
@@Eagle01ph yeah! You have to grip it and manipulate the stick with all your hand I can’t do it with just my fingers, apparently that’s how they are, there’s a few bodge mods changing springs etc but not for me tho’ 🤔😉
Showing your control and especially throttle inputs was extremely helpful. So many tutorials out there don't incorporate those and it's so helpful to see what you're doing as you explain. I was finally able to refuel for the first time 🤩
While the essential hint is "stay in Formation with the tanker", you should keep in mind, that when you take fuel, you will gradually get more heavy, so you will have to increase throttle to stay in formation. Helps to keep that in mind, and to be prepared for it
Good stuff. It's definitely formation flying stuff, and the analogy you use with the three throttle movements is spot on, I was taught that by a tanker pilot. The other thing is getting trimmed up while flying near the tanker so your stick is neutral, this can help avoid the pilot induced oscillations correcting input. Throttling up will lift the nose too, and throttling back will drop it a little, this too can cause over correction and getting out of sync. I think Ward Carroll said pilots would put in a little left rudder to lift the right shoulder up to the basket, but I don't think this is needed in DCS. As you say, practice, and it's fun to get right!
I've heard IRL some pilots put the probe below the basked then used lateral stick to the left to lift it there - it's needed to make sure the bow wave of the Tomcat doesn't push the basket away. But we don't have that in DCS unfortunately.
Great video. Especially the last point. DCS is just like learning an instrument. One thing people seem to forget with both DCS and instruments is that not all playing is practicing. If you want to get better at something you have to break it into steps and only move on to the next when you can do the one before without thinking. Just like learning a song
So after a good few days trying to master this and finally succeeding, i can offer a few other tips to people who may also be struggling; 1. When tanking on the S3, make sure you get the 'confirm precontact' call as opposed to the 'return precontact', otherwise the basket doesnt really exist despite looking like it's there. To get the 'confirm' precontact call you have to be very close to the tanker, almost like you can reach out and grab the basket. 2. Once you have made contact, be active on the throttle but extremely gentle on the stick to maintain position. What works for me with the throttle is moving it quite a bit backwards and forwards constantly to keep the correct distance and not come off the line. 3. Focus on the pod and use peripheral vision for the basket, i find i never need to look directly at the basket. 4. Set a curve on the jostick, maybe 15% and back off if you feel that is appropriate. Personally, i dont understand the desire for masochism, especially with a short stick/no extension that doesnt move as much as the real thing, thereby making finer adjustments harder than in real life, something confirmed by many pilots. 5. Understand that you WILL get there with practise. I had many failed attempts that resulted the tanker being shot down....
You're a really fantastic teacher. You do a great job of breaking the task down and building up the listener to feel confident that they can pull off the task. I can't wait to try the Speed and Angels campaign, too. So much good stuff to do in DCS, and it's only getting better. Thanks for making our favorite sim that much better.
@@ReflectedSimulations Actually I did full F-14 AA refueling for the first time yesterday. I was strugling long time to achieve it. I have no problem with F/A-18, but F-14 was nightmare. Not anymore, thanks!
Beautiful tutorial with excellent advice (just like your Case I Tutorial, which might be the best one on F-14 Case I I've seen). Please keep them coming. You may be a "flight sim nerd", but speaking as an actual CFI, your teaching is exactly right. Can't wait for Speed and Angels--I am loving working my way through Zone 5! I'm off for a few passes at the boat and maybe a plug. Cheers!
Excellent explanation of a difficult subject. I've been guilty of a few of the mistakes you covered. Got a little better after going VR, but it's still a nerve racking experience!
Great video, I also watched your campaign rating video yesterday and really enjoyed that one as well. In fact it inspired me to re-play the zone 5 campaign since I have become much more proficient with understanding WVR air combat I found it much more fun. The Tomcat is no doubt one of the hardest to master but so much fun when you get to know the jet. As a long time Simm pilot and also a real world pilot and veteran I love the hard core realism. I am looking forward to speed and angels!
But if you have the armament switch set to OFF for refueling, it makes it harder to shoot the tanker down in frustration if you fail repeated hook ups.
Zone 5 is outstanding and I can’t wait for Speed and Angels! The F-14 is very difficult to master because of the cockpit sight picture. Also, it seems as if every switch is miles away from the next, so get your pre plug checklist done before you even get close to the tanker (make sure Jester has his pie hole shut!) Just before making contact with the basket, (trim, wings,throttle/airspeed set) I will then use only the Right Throttle to make contact to the hose and stay connected. Using both throttles always seems to be too much (or too little).
How do you get jester to be quiet, I find he is always talking over the top of instructors and I miss half of what they say. Is there a Jester command or do I just turn off turn off ICS? 🤔
Thanks for the tips, I got the campaign Speed and angels because it's amazing have a fully automatic RIO (to be honest I hate bloody JESTER with all my soul) and I think the campaign it's truly amazing. I fly the tomcat Alone (single two seat player 😂) But I am stuck in the mission 2 for some time and the reason is I am no good in formations and refueling. But yes I need to practise to be patient, and don't blow up the tanker with the gun for example (Just happens one or maybe two times 😂) I going to take your tips seriously to move foward to the campaign speed and angels. I think is amazin work you did with that. Thanks and regards.
I'm one of those people who swear by the bomb mode. I've personally seen several people who claimed to have never successfully refueled the cat, although they could refuel the 18 or other planes. Many of those people only needed to flick the wings to bomb mode and 1-2 minutes later they were sipping fuel in the cat for the first time. It really does make it a lot easier. I'd consider refueling with wings far forward to be an advanced skill, and much harder yet in auto. And there's no need to make it frustrating for beginners. Bomb mode specifically isn't special, any far back position will do, and more back the better as long as the airplane can still fly well. Bomb mode is just a convenient and consistent number that's 1 button away, and the airplane still flies well at 250kn in bomb mode. Advantages: 1. Any manual position further back than Auto at the current speed disables the wing movement. Auto wings will horribly mess up your trim if they decide to move randomly. 2. Wings back need higher AOA. Let me explain: Say you're flying at 5 units of AOA in level flight, so you have exactly 1G of lift counteracting gravity. Then you pull on the stick which adds another 1 unit of AOA. Your AOA thus increases by 20%, which makes your lift also increase by about 20% (unless close to stalling) and you're now accelerating up at 0.2G. Now try the same thing with wings back. Maybe you're at 10 AOA, you pull on the stick the same amount again, which adds 1 unit of AOA, but that's only 10% increase this time, thus you'll only pull 0.1G. It's just a lot less sensitive in pitch. The same increase in pitch makes it climb less and it also settles into the climb slower, thus giving you more time for further adjustments. 3. Wings back reduce your angular momentum around roll axis, which makes the airplane more responsive in roll, which is usually better for faster corrections, since roll isn't really the axis people consider too sensitive to struggle with it. 4. Something about the aerodynamics, angular momentum and distribution of weight also seems to smooth out the turkey yaw wobble when adjusting bank. With unfolded wings, the adverse yaw makes the probe wobble left and right, confuses the pilot about which way they're going, induces a small uncommanded roll tendency and momentarily increases drag. With folded wings, those seem to get smoother. 5. Adding more fuel to an engine raises combustion temperature and pressure, which spins the turbine and the compressor faster, which increases the pressure and air mass the compressor is feeding in, which then in turn cools down the combustion. Combustion temperature must not exceed the turbine limits, and combustion pressure must never exceed the pressure that the compressor feeding, otherwise the fire will come out of the front. At idle, the engine is quite close to the lowest RPM where the compressor still provides enough pressure for the air to move in the correct direction, and enough cool air that turbine won't melt. But the margins aren't big, so you can only add so much extra fuel. A bit below idle, the margins are zero or negative - the engine cannot safely handle enough fuel to even sustain the compressor RPM, it it would melt the turbine or stall the compressor. Above idle, the margins get higher and higher, you can keep adding fuel faster and faster as the RPM increases. More AOA -> More drag -> More engine power needed -> Faster thrust response of the engines. Try it with boards out for even more responsive throttle. Disadvantages: 1. Higher AOA points the engines more down, so adjusting power will make the airplane climb or descend more
DCS just needs to put a difficulty slider in for air refueling. Full real at one end, and at the other adding a very large area of 'close enough' that will snap the basket onto your probe if you miss high/low/left/right. People can use this to gradually get better.
@ReflectedSimulations That should be the full real end of the slider. New guys and bad pilots could set a probe that would forgive a miss by 1, 2, 6, 8 feet, whatever they wish. Mission makers and server owners select a maximum value for that setting if they want to enforce it. Those of us who suck can start off with a big area to miss and still "get fuel", and slowly reduce it as we get better.
@ReflectedSimulations hopefully they do. I love the challenge of DCS but some days I just don't have the skill to hit the basket. I find it FAR more difficult than flying the ball or a night carrier landing for some reason. They might add a similar one for boom tankers thay adds forgiveness for being too far below, aside, or behind, but I think that would be more difficult due to the geometry.
The Tomcat has VERY powerful engines but it comes at a cost: inertia. It takes a while for the engines to spool up to requested power. It's the worse of any DCS aircraft for that. So in the case of AAR, you literally have to anticipate what the jet is going to do even before it starts doing it. At least in the F-18 you could correct the aircraft based on what it was doing. You had to be ahead of the aircraft, but in the F-14 you have to be so ahead that you have to start correcting for stuff the aircraft isn't even doing, if it has anything to do with power. I have many F-18 campaigns done off carriers, but I have to admit the F-14 is difficult to convert to becasue of these engines. But man can this thing go compared to an F-18.
So I understand all of this but how do you counter jet wash from aircraft like the kc-135 I can't even fly wing tip with an orbiting one without either being pushed down or up
I've given up on seriously trying to learn this for now, until I get a decent joystick or a dedicated throttle, my veredict is it is indeed impossible to aaf if the hardware is too cheap. Using a pxn2113, I managed to connect many times and even keep 10~15 seconds into the basket once, but the throttle on the stick is just too low quality, very sticky at first and then not smooth enough when moving, nowhere enough to make those 1-2 kt changes that AAF requires to keep formation for long. Any minimal movement changes the engine parameters way too much, trying sub-milimiter movements still ends up with +-10kt changes and sore fingers. Some of the bad quality I managed to compensate for: like keeping decent control of the aircraft even though I'd actually need to set deadzones to 25/25/52 on roll/pitch/yaw to keep the stick from moving itself on its own (yes, twenty five & FIFTY TWO). Sensors only go from 50 to 70 on roll and 60 to 70 on pitch -- but the throttle I couldn't win against. I opened the stick, I tried tightening screws. No luck. I think I'll grab a gladiator nxt, and I'm already building my own DIY rudder pedals (and might build a throttle quadrant as well), this 2113 needs to go to retirement.
OMG the wake turbulence is soooooo frustrating. Just get into position, hit turbulence and I get thrown everywhere just to start again. AGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
I'd really put an emphasis on TRIMMING THE PLANE! And I mean ALL trims! People usually only trim pitch and roll, but in the 14, you NEED to trim the yaw too! The probe is acting like a giant door, pulling your aircraft to the right, so get the probe out, trim everything ON SPEED, and then go refuel. you'll see, it's a game changer
Thank you. Very inspirational and informative. My problem is regular practice. Just don't get enough time to do it. About the wings at 20 degrees in manual mode, will the maneuver flaps still move at this wing sweep? I've practiced with the wing sweep in Auto and it was a nightmare. The plane would frequently pitch up or down and I would have to correct it. Secondly, every video talks about the trim. I also trim the rudder apart from the vertical trim as the yaw/slip indicator deviates to the left when the probe is extended. I read this on the ED forums somewhere. So now I trim the rudder too and that does help in maintaining some lateral stability. Coming back to the pitch/elevator trim, I can trim the plane when in the observation position but after that any changes in the throttle do effect my vertical speed indicator. Maybe my I should add smaller changes to the throttle?
I never found it necessary to use rudder trim, only seen it on the forums. Yes, throttle movement changes pitch inertia, but if you look at my controls indicator, I'm making tiny adjustments, and their effect on trim is negligible.
Pretty good video! Question, when I create a mission with own troops (ie Helicopters flying around the airfiled), there always blue labels next to the aircrafts- can I turn them off? It looks so unrealistic. Thanks!
Great video! I’ve been wondering about slipping during refuelling. As you get into the wake of the tanker, the ball will be off center indicated slipping. I usually trim the rudder as well. Do you know if that’s something that was done? Or slipping in this case with the increased drag doesn’t really matter
Yes, rudder trim was a well known best practice, because the instant the probe comes out, you're dragging one side. Trim to stabilize in all three dimensions.
sorry my curiosity what joystick you are using? With my X52 saitek it's very complicated to do this kind of slow movement. So I was wondering if you have to set up something in the control options for x and y axis respectively
When I go to refuel I fly straight through the basket and it does not connect. Watching you and every single other Air Refuel it looks like the drogue auto connects when you get close enough. But I literally fly through the whole drogue and basket and nothing connects. I submitted a ticket to DCS dev's along with video of the problem but they have yet to get back to me with a solution. Am I doing something wrong? Has anyone else had this problem? I fly as straight and smooth as he does in the video yet it does not connect.
Awesome tips as always. I used to do the Bomb mode thing, then switched to wings 20 and really didn't have much trouble. Have you tried the Recovery Tanker function yet? I've found the AI to do erratic turns and bank angles when trying to tank but I haven't seen anyone else mention it.
The recovery tanker option is super useful for CV op missions. I haven't seen the AI bank erratically, not when anyone is behind the basket. Or you mean the AI that's behind the basked? I haven't seen that either, but the AI is pretty erratic in general..
@@ReflectedSimulations Usually when a client is hooked up online. The tanker will bank right before the left turn, then turn left, then partially through the turn his bank angle gets shallower, then goes back to what it was earlier. I'm starting to wonder if it's an online only thing since I always fly the Tomcat over a server for screens/videos.
Ive tried and tried and tried. I cant get this to work for me. The trim wont neutralise on my stick, it creates its own oscillations. Throttle is also completely alien to me, it takes like 30 seconds for the throttle to even come up a little and once im near the basket the tanker just starts wobbling all over the place and i cant grab it. I cant for the life of me figure out how you guys on youtube get in so smoothly. Ive spent 15 hours practicing so far and have gotten ZERO stabs.
@@ReflectedSimulations That is quite the machine. I was considering what to get for msfs, dcs, etc. Desktops are the obvious choice, but I also appreciate the mobility of a laptop minus the amount of money they cost to run programs like that. Do you find any advantages/disadvantages to laptop use or is it all just preference? Thank you for your time, and responses btw.
@@Funk8_4 The mobility is a plus - and for me it's a must. The disadvantage is the size of the screen and the small number of USB ports (which can be addressed with a USB hub). And a laptop always costs more than the same components in a desktop PC.
@@ReflectedSimulations I can imagine it might be a little cumbersome to carry a bunch of equipment place to place so there's a consideration. Not sure if it defeats the purpose of mobility/portability, but I don't own a television/monitor and use a mini projector with my platform. Definitely travel friendly, and lends a more "atmospheric" experience to what I'm doing granted you have the space/surface to use. Much to think about. In any case, thank you again for taking the time to respond, and share info! You've earned a new subscriber. Keep up the great content!
Theres no way this can be learnt for me. I am sweating my ass off in VR just to SOMEWHAT be close to the tanker, only to have everything fucked up but the slightest turbulence caused by it, then I am off 1-2 thousand feet either direction, seeing you being stable behind it is just a dream for me. I have absolutely no idea how you do it. The smallest stick input puts me off to another planet.
Can you promise me you are not using any autopilot modes at all? I get into observation position, flick on AP and then just use pressure more than movement on the stick and it drives right in. Just modulate the throttle and hold position and dink the trim once in a while and ... its full in no time.
Tutorial is on point, but u forgot to mention the quality of your Hotas which for precise manouvre as refuel,formation flying and carrier landing make a huge difference... High end Hotas make the 80% of the jobs.. I have a x56 rhino which isn't a bad Hotas.. But for precise things like that is a pain in term of Stick.
Okay, but what if my stick has deadzones so big that you could fly a tanker throught them, and the smallest stick deflection the game will ever see is 35%?
@@ReflectedSimulations It's not a setting, it's the hardware. the pointer in the windows calibration doesn't even twitch a bit until I input ~25% deflection on my stick. My point is: I'm probably not the only one who has imprecise hardware, and is therefore asking for an option to skip refueling in missions... This is a game, not a life-and-death, spend-thousands-on-hardware-or-GTFO kind of hobby... ... unless that's what you want it to be?
@@Atlessa Sorry, you definitely need a new stick, then. That's way too much deadzone, I couldn't even fly straight and level, let alone refuel. Skipping will not be an option sorry.
Repetition. Try, don’t get frustrated, try try and try. It’s something that clicks, and once it does you won’t believe it used to be so frustrating and hard. Or at least, it did for me.
why in the world ED didnt implemented yet the need to close the right doors of air source, the engine could stall for example, or the zip lip formality they use so the enemy wont get any signals where the tanker is, i believe sometimes they use the radio but is when they are over US, ED no offense is being wayyyy to lazy, for die hard fans like me its astonishing after 15 years they didnt do nothing related to this, the situation of bad sealed basket or boom, that would be just to use the same vapor effect we have in the f16 wings, after waiting for so long now i just have is FPS problems with a 4000bucks pc. im very happy that DCS exists but very disappointed in the same degree. by the way reflected i really like what you have done in DCS, tx for those amazing campaigns
Forgot 1 thing... Finger tips only on the controls... gripping the stick and throttle has the tendency for you to tense up... tense muscles tend to react slower and over compensate... if you are not confident in flying with finger tips only... then the issue is just in your head... your head already told you that you can't do it even before you started.... you will need to overcome that
That’s always a good advice
Thank you, I will apply this to my practice
Try doing finger tips only when using the Thrustmaster A-10C / F-16C joystick. Great video tho’ still suck at ARR but I keep practising, just not consistent 😂
@@Rogeroverandout61 is it really that stiff? I use a the virpil warbird base
@@Eagle01ph yeah! You have to grip it and manipulate the stick with all your hand I can’t do it with just my fingers, apparently that’s how they are, there’s a few bodge mods changing springs etc but not for me tho’ 🤔😉
Showing your control and especially throttle inputs was extremely helpful. So many tutorials out there don't incorporate those and it's so helpful to see what you're doing as you explain. I was finally able to refuel for the first time 🤩
I'm so glad it helped! Now keep practicing ;)
While the essential hint is "stay in Formation with the tanker", you should keep in mind, that when you take fuel, you will gradually get more heavy, so you will have to increase throttle to stay in formation. Helps to keep that in mind, and to be prepared for it
I always wondered if one would feel the effect of that.
Good stuff. It's definitely formation flying stuff, and the analogy you use with the three throttle movements is spot on, I was taught that by a tanker pilot. The other thing is getting trimmed up while flying near the tanker so your stick is neutral, this can help avoid the pilot induced oscillations correcting input. Throttling up will lift the nose too, and throttling back will drop it a little, this too can cause over correction and getting out of sync. I think Ward Carroll said pilots would put in a little left rudder to lift the right shoulder up to the basket, but I don't think this is needed in DCS. As you say, practice, and it's fun to get right!
I've heard IRL some pilots put the probe below the basked then used lateral stick to the left to lift it there - it's needed to make sure the bow wave of the Tomcat doesn't push the basket away. But we don't have that in DCS unfortunately.
@@ReflectedSimulations that makes sense! And no, we're not up to that level of physics yet in DCS, probably much to some player's relief.
I find lowering your seat position very helpful. It lets you see much more of the tanker to reference closure etc. for 2D at least.
Thank you SO MUCH for explaining *why* the checklist steps exist. So much easier to remember that way.
This is one of the best AR tutorials I've ever seen.
Great video. Especially the last point. DCS is just like learning an instrument. One thing people seem to forget with both DCS and instruments is that not all playing is practicing. If you want to get better at something you have to break it into steps and only move on to the next when you can do the one before without thinking. Just like learning a song
LOL.. Reflected is the man! makes it look easy on a 15" laptop screen - without VR - BEAST MODE!
Hahaha thanks!
So after a good few days trying to master this and finally succeeding, i can offer a few other tips to people who may also be struggling;
1. When tanking on the S3, make sure you get the 'confirm precontact' call as opposed to the 'return precontact', otherwise the basket doesnt really exist despite looking like it's there. To get the 'confirm' precontact call you have to be very close to the tanker, almost like you can reach out and grab the basket.
2. Once you have made contact, be active on the throttle but extremely gentle on the stick to maintain position. What works for me with the throttle is moving it quite a bit backwards and forwards constantly to keep the correct distance and not come off the line.
3. Focus on the pod and use peripheral vision for the basket, i find i never need to look directly at the basket.
4. Set a curve on the jostick, maybe 15% and back off if you feel that is appropriate. Personally, i dont understand the desire for masochism, especially with a short stick/no extension that doesnt move as much as the real thing, thereby making finer adjustments harder than in real life, something confirmed by many pilots.
5. Understand that you WILL get there with practise. I had many failed attempts that resulted the tanker being shot down....
Haha good to know I’m not the only one that goes guns on the tanker after many failed attempts
You're a really fantastic teacher. You do a great job of breaking the task down and building up the listener to feel confident that they can pull off the task. I can't wait to try the Speed and Angels campaign, too. So much good stuff to do in DCS, and it's only getting better. Thanks for making our favorite sim that much better.
Thank you for the kind words and good luck with Speed & Angels!
Looks like plan for this evening. Thanks man, your tutorials are one of the best
Thank you and good luck :)
@@ReflectedSimulations Actually I did full F-14 AA refueling for the first time yesterday. I was strugling long time to achieve it. I have no problem with F/A-18, but F-14 was nightmare. Not anymore, thanks!
Just saw it, Insta like because this was really necessary video to be made and shown as much as possible
Beautiful tutorial with excellent advice (just like your Case I Tutorial, which might be the best one on F-14 Case I I've seen). Please keep them coming. You may be a "flight sim nerd", but speaking as an actual CFI, your teaching is exactly right. Can't wait for Speed and Angels--I am loving working my way through Zone 5! I'm off for a few passes at the boat and maybe a plug. Cheers!
Thank you, I appreciate you saying that.
Excellent explanation of a difficult subject. I've been guilty of a few of the mistakes you covered. Got a little better after going VR, but it's still a nerve racking experience!
Great video, I also watched your campaign rating video yesterday and really enjoyed that one as well. In fact it inspired me to re-play the zone 5 campaign since I have become much more proficient with understanding WVR air combat I found it much more fun. The Tomcat is no doubt one of the hardest to master but so much fun when you get to know the jet. As a long time Simm pilot and also a real world pilot and veteran I love the hard core realism. I am looking forward to speed and angels!
Thanks! :)
Personally I set my auto pilots and then when I’ve touched the basket it am close I engage them with the ap indicator and it’s perfect
But if you have the armament switch set to OFF for refueling, it makes it harder to shoot the tanker down in frustration if you fail repeated hook ups.
Zone 5 is outstanding and I can’t wait for Speed and Angels! The F-14 is very difficult to master because of the cockpit sight picture. Also, it seems as if every switch is miles away from the next, so get your pre plug checklist done before you even get close to the tanker (make sure Jester has his pie hole shut!) Just before making contact with the basket, (trim, wings,throttle/airspeed set) I will then use only the Right Throttle to make contact to the hose and stay connected. Using both throttles always seems to be too much (or too little).
How do you get jester to be quiet, I find he is always talking over the top of instructors and I miss half of what they say.
Is there a Jester command or do I just turn off turn off ICS? 🤔
Thanks for your advises. Its really hepfull as always. Continue to make a great job!!!
Great tutorial and great flying dude! Love the gliding shout-out as well - huge parallels to flying the aerotow.
I'm glad someone else agrees :)
I cannot thank you enough man! I followed your tips and got it first try!
Awesome, good job!
Such an amazing video Reflected, and as humble as always. I can't wait for Speed&Angels!
Looking forward to speed&angels.
Soon :)
@@ReflectedSimulations 2 weeks ™️
Not flying the Tomcat at the moment, but enjoyed your tutorial all the same .. love your WW2 campaigns, but haven't tried the Tomcat's yet.
Just what I was looking for. Thanks for the great video mate.
i dont have any issue with refueling after 20years of simming, but this was a very well done tutorial.
thank you!
Thanks for the tips, I got the campaign Speed and angels because it's amazing have a fully automatic RIO (to be honest I hate bloody JESTER with all my soul) and I think the campaign it's truly amazing. I fly the tomcat Alone (single two seat player 😂)
But I am stuck in the mission 2 for some time and the reason is I am no good in formations and refueling. But yes I need to practise to be patient, and don't blow up the tanker with the gun for example (Just happens one or maybe two times 😂)
I going to take your tips seriously to move foward to the campaign speed and angels. I think is amazin work you did with that.
Thanks and regards.
Thank you and good luck with the rest of the campaign!
Thank you very much for your advice on refueling. A hug
Very good tutorial Reflected 💪🏼
I'm one of those people who swear by the bomb mode.
I've personally seen several people who claimed to have never successfully refueled the cat, although they could refuel the 18 or other planes. Many of those people only needed to flick the wings to bomb mode and 1-2 minutes later they were sipping fuel in the cat for the first time. It really does make it a lot easier. I'd consider refueling with wings far forward to be an advanced skill, and much harder yet in auto. And there's no need to make it frustrating for beginners.
Bomb mode specifically isn't special, any far back position will do, and more back the better as long as the airplane can still fly well. Bomb mode is just a convenient and consistent number that's 1 button away, and the airplane still flies well at 250kn in bomb mode.
Advantages:
1. Any manual position further back than Auto at the current speed disables the wing movement. Auto wings will horribly mess up your trim if they decide to move randomly.
2. Wings back need higher AOA. Let me explain: Say you're flying at 5 units of AOA in level flight, so you have exactly 1G of lift counteracting gravity. Then you pull on the stick which adds another 1 unit of AOA. Your AOA thus increases by 20%, which makes your lift also increase by about 20% (unless close to stalling) and you're now accelerating up at 0.2G. Now try the same thing with wings back. Maybe you're at 10 AOA, you pull on the stick the same amount again, which adds 1 unit of AOA, but that's only 10% increase this time, thus you'll only pull 0.1G. It's just a lot less sensitive in pitch. The same increase in pitch makes it climb less and it also settles into the climb slower, thus giving you more time for further adjustments.
3. Wings back reduce your angular momentum around roll axis, which makes the airplane more responsive in roll, which is usually better for faster corrections, since roll isn't really the axis people consider too sensitive to struggle with it.
4. Something about the aerodynamics, angular momentum and distribution of weight also seems to smooth out the turkey yaw wobble when adjusting bank. With unfolded wings, the adverse yaw makes the probe wobble left and right, confuses the pilot about which way they're going, induces a small uncommanded roll tendency and momentarily increases drag. With folded wings, those seem to get smoother.
5. Adding more fuel to an engine raises combustion temperature and pressure, which spins the turbine and the compressor faster, which increases the pressure and air mass the compressor is feeding in, which then in turn cools down the combustion. Combustion temperature must not exceed the turbine limits, and combustion pressure must never exceed the pressure that the compressor feeding, otherwise the fire will come out of the front.
At idle, the engine is quite close to the lowest RPM where the compressor still provides enough pressure for the air to move in the correct direction, and enough cool air that turbine won't melt. But the margins aren't big, so you can only add so much extra fuel. A bit below idle, the margins are zero or negative - the engine cannot safely handle enough fuel to even sustain the compressor RPM, it it would melt the turbine or stall the compressor. Above idle, the margins get higher and higher, you can keep adding fuel faster and faster as the RPM increases.
More AOA -> More drag -> More engine power needed -> Faster thrust response of the engines. Try it with boards out for even more responsive throttle.
Disadvantages:
1. Higher AOA points the engines more down, so adjusting power will make the airplane climb or descend more
DCS just needs to put a difficulty slider in for air refueling. Full real at one end, and at the other adding a very large area of 'close enough' that will snap the basket onto your probe if you miss high/low/left/right. People can use this to gradually get better.
Not a bad idea at all, actually I wouldn't mind disabling the snap altogether if we had that option.
@ReflectedSimulations That should be the full real end of the slider. New guys and bad pilots could set a probe that would forgive a miss by 1, 2, 6, 8 feet, whatever they wish. Mission makers and server owners select a maximum value for that setting if they want to enforce it. Those of us who suck can start off with a big area to miss and still "get fuel", and slowly reduce it as we get better.
@@larrythorn4715 yeah, great idea, I forwarded it to ED, let's see if they like it.
@ReflectedSimulations hopefully they do. I love the challenge of DCS but some days I just don't have the skill to hit the basket. I find it FAR more difficult than flying the ball or a night carrier landing for some reason. They might add a similar one for boom tankers thay adds forgiveness for being too far below, aside, or behind, but I think that would be more difficult due to the geometry.
Loved the tutorial! I was wondering if you had that livery for VF-213 with the modex of 210 available for download anywhere? Thank you!
Thanks! It comes with the Speed & Angels campaign
Rudder trim after the probe has been extended, and have the autopilot on 😊
The Tomcat has VERY powerful engines but it comes at a cost: inertia. It takes a while for the engines to spool up to requested power. It's the worse of any DCS aircraft for that. So in the case of AAR, you literally have to anticipate what the jet is going to do even before it starts doing it. At least in the F-18 you could correct the aircraft based on what it was doing. You had to be ahead of the aircraft, but in the F-14 you have to be so ahead that you have to start correcting for stuff the aircraft isn't even doing, if it has anything to do with power. I have many F-18 campaigns done off carriers, but I have to admit the F-14 is difficult to convert to becasue of these engines. But man can this thing go compared to an F-18.
So I understand all of this but how do you counter jet wash from aircraft like the kc-135 I can't even fly wing tip with an orbiting one without either being pushed down or up
I've given up on seriously trying to learn this for now, until I get a decent joystick or a dedicated throttle, my veredict is it is indeed impossible to aaf if the hardware is too cheap. Using a pxn2113, I managed to connect many times and even keep 10~15 seconds into the basket once, but the throttle on the stick is just too low quality, very sticky at first and then not smooth enough when moving, nowhere enough to make those 1-2 kt changes that AAF requires to keep formation for long. Any minimal movement changes the engine parameters way too much, trying sub-milimiter movements still ends up with +-10kt changes and sore fingers.
Some of the bad quality I managed to compensate for: like keeping decent control of the aircraft even though I'd actually need to set deadzones to 25/25/52 on roll/pitch/yaw to keep the stick from moving itself on its own (yes, twenty five & FIFTY TWO). Sensors only go from 50 to 70 on roll and 60 to 70 on pitch -- but the throttle I couldn't win against. I opened the stick, I tried tightening screws. No luck.
I think I'll grab a gladiator nxt, and I'm already building my own DIY rudder pedals (and might build a throttle quadrant as well), this 2113 needs to go to retirement.
Thanks Reflected! Is there any way Speed & Angels will be available for Christmas?
Yes. But not Christmas 2022 😅
it's so hard to manage your airspeed, I would always overshoot the tanker or be left behind.
OMG the wake turbulence is soooooo frustrating. Just get into position, hit turbulence and I get thrown everywhere just to start again. AGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
Thanks for the upload!
It was even harder back in the days of the C64 and A.C.E (Cascade Games) !
I'd really put an emphasis on TRIMMING THE PLANE!
And I mean ALL trims! People usually only trim pitch and roll, but in the 14, you NEED to trim the yaw too!
The probe is acting like a giant door, pulling your aircraft to the right, so get the probe out, trim everything ON SPEED, and then go refuel. you'll see, it's a game changer
Is there an option in DCS to trim yaw?
Could yaw be trimmed ?
@@Grumman-8k yes, look for it in the aircraft bindings, under the flight control category, or search for Trim.
@Мартин Стоянов yes, look for it in the aircraft bindings, under the flight control category, or search for Trim.
@@LaCrepe_ Thanks, I managed to trim the aircraft without needing yaw trim but still pretty useful tip
I believe I got the whole content but for the tanker to release the basket I will have to left click the fuel probe on my f14 when extended ???
I don’t understand. When it’s already out you don’t have to click it again.
Thank you. Very inspirational and informative. My problem is regular practice. Just don't get enough time to do it. About the wings at 20 degrees in manual mode, will the maneuver flaps still move at this wing sweep? I've practiced with the wing sweep in Auto and it was a nightmare. The plane would frequently pitch up or down and I would have to correct it. Secondly, every video talks about the trim. I also trim the rudder apart from the vertical trim as the yaw/slip indicator deviates to the left when the probe is extended. I read this on the ED forums somewhere. So now I trim the rudder too and that does help in maintaining some lateral stability. Coming back to the pitch/elevator trim, I can trim the plane when in the observation position but after that any changes in the throttle do effect my vertical speed indicator. Maybe my I should add smaller changes to the throttle?
I never found it necessary to use rudder trim, only seen it on the forums. Yes, throttle movement changes pitch inertia, but if you look at my controls indicator, I'm making tiny adjustments, and their effect on trim is negligible.
@@ReflectedSimulations Right, thank you
Pretty good video! Question, when I create a mission with own troops (ie Helicopters flying around the airfiled), there always blue labels next to the aircrafts- can I turn them off? It looks so unrealistic. Thanks!
sure, it's in your settings called 'labels' there are several options.
Thanks for your quick answer! I will try to find it.
Do you know if there is a KC-10 Tanker available? I found a mod from 2019- not sure if this will be working.
Can you use arrow keys to do this?
you can but it would be VERY difficult
Great video! I’ve been wondering about slipping during refuelling. As you get into the wake of the tanker, the ball will be off center indicated slipping. I usually trim the rudder as well. Do you know if that’s something that was done? Or slipping in this case with the increased drag doesn’t really matter
I don’t think it really matters, I’ve never heard real Tomcat pilots mention this.
Yes, rudder trim was a well known best practice, because the instant the probe comes out, you're dragging one side.
Trim to stabilize in all three dimensions.
sorry my curiosity what joystick you are using? With my X52 saitek it's very complicated to do this kind of slow movement. So I was wondering if you have to set up something in the control options for x and y axis respectively
This, with no curves:
ruclips.net/video/uf-agX5ZUYw/видео.htmlsi=fwvUfJGecHD6Z1gI
When I go to refuel I fly straight through the basket and it does not connect. Watching you and every single other Air Refuel it looks like the drogue auto connects when you get close enough. But I literally fly through the whole drogue and basket and nothing connects. I submitted a ticket to DCS dev's along with video of the problem but they have yet to get back to me with a solution. Am I doing something wrong? Has anyone else had this problem? I fly as straight and smooth as he does in the video yet it does not connect.
Are you using the radio menu correctly?
Also make sure you don’t have unlimited fuel selected as an option…that was my problem
Nice VF-213 Blacklions livery, I just left VFA-213 which is the now super hornet squadron
Wow! What laptop can run dcs with such good graphics?
i just broke my hotas out of frustration whilst trying to AA refuel. Just had to vent
I’ve found the 14 to be much more difficult than the 18 to fuel. It’s getting better over time but it’s still harder for me.
True, the Hornet has FBW.
Cool tutorial
What did you mean with "visors down"?
Thanks! It’s the helmet visors.
@@ReflectedSimulations I never knew it could be put up or down
@@skywarp2180 well not in DCS
great tutorial
Thanks!
Awesome tips as always. I used to do the Bomb mode thing, then switched to wings 20 and really didn't have much trouble. Have you tried the Recovery Tanker function yet? I've found the AI to do erratic turns and bank angles when trying to tank but I haven't seen anyone else mention it.
The recovery tanker option is super useful for CV op missions. I haven't seen the AI bank erratically, not when anyone is behind the basket. Or you mean the AI that's behind the basked? I haven't seen that either, but the AI is pretty erratic in general..
@@ReflectedSimulations Usually when a client is hooked up online. The tanker will bank right before the left turn, then turn left, then partially through the turn his bank angle gets shallower, then goes back to what it was earlier. I'm starting to wonder if it's an online only thing since I always fly the Tomcat over a server for screens/videos.
@@DCS_World_Japan I’ve never seen this offline
When is the release date of Speed&Angels?
'Eventually' :D - early 2023
Ive tried and tried and tried. I cant get this to work for me. The trim wont neutralise on my stick, it creates its own oscillations. Throttle is also completely alien to me, it takes like 30 seconds for the throttle to even come up a little and once im near the basket the tanker just starts wobbling all over the place and i cant grab it. I cant for the life of me figure out how you guys on youtube get in so smoothly. Ive spent 15 hours practicing so far and have gotten ZERO stabs.
Keep practicing, it will eventually click
@@ReflectedSimulations What Stick and HOTAS do you use?
@@darqen271 winwing. Check the reviews on my channel
@@ReflectedSimulations no wonder it’s so smooth. I have an x56 and precise movements are really hard with the throttle and stick.
@@darqen271 I've heard that about the x56. I think even a T16000m would be more precise, but not more expensive. I used one for a long time.
Great vid. What laptop are you using, and what are the specs?
A GP65 Leopard. 32 GB RAM, 2060
@@ReflectedSimulations That is quite the machine. I was considering what to get for msfs, dcs, etc. Desktops are the obvious choice, but I also appreciate the mobility of a laptop minus the amount of money they cost to run programs like that. Do you find any advantages/disadvantages to laptop use or is it all just preference? Thank you for your time, and responses btw.
@@Funk8_4 The mobility is a plus - and for me it's a must. The disadvantage is the size of the screen and the small number of USB ports (which can be addressed with a USB hub). And a laptop always costs more than the same components in a desktop PC.
@@ReflectedSimulations I can imagine it might be a little cumbersome to carry a bunch of equipment place to place so there's a consideration. Not sure if it defeats the purpose of mobility/portability, but I don't own a television/monitor and use a mini projector with my platform. Definitely travel friendly, and lends a more "atmospheric" experience to what I'm doing granted you have the space/surface to use. Much to think about. In any case, thank you again for taking the time to respond, and share info! You've earned a new subscriber. Keep up the great content!
Theres no way this can be learnt for me. I am sweating my ass off in VR just to SOMEWHAT be close to the tanker, only to have everything fucked up but the slightest turbulence caused by it, then I am off 1-2 thousand feet either direction, seeing you being stable behind it is just a dream for me. I have absolutely no idea how you do it. The smallest stick input puts me off to another planet.
Just don’t give up, keep at it. Very small corrections both with the stick and the throttle
Can you promise me you are not using any autopilot modes at all? I get into observation position, flick on AP and then just use pressure more than movement on the stick and it drives right in. Just modulate the throttle and hold position and dink the trim once in a while and ... its full in no time.
@@LeonardoDaRockstar never even occured to me. I doubt it was done in real life
Tutorial is on point, but u forgot to mention the quality of your Hotas which for precise manouvre as refuel,formation flying and carrier landing make a huge difference... High end Hotas make the 80% of the jobs..
I have a x56 rhino which isn't a bad Hotas.. But for precise things like that is a pain in term of Stick.
I performed the same with me T16000m. But yeah, the better the hotas the easier. But defo not 80%
I'm an inconsistent plugger.
Me too!
I never had problems making the contact, more holding it. 😁
Okay, but what if my stick has deadzones so big that you could fly a tanker throught them, and the smallest stick deflection the game will ever see is 35%?
That’s not good, can you decrease the deadzone in your settings?
@@ReflectedSimulations It's not a setting, it's the hardware. the pointer in the windows calibration doesn't even twitch a bit until I input ~25% deflection on my stick.
My point is: I'm probably not the only one who has imprecise hardware, and is therefore asking for an option to skip refueling in missions... This is a game, not a life-and-death, spend-thousands-on-hardware-or-GTFO kind of hobby...
... unless that's what you want it to be?
@@Atlessa Sorry, you definitely need a new stick, then. That's way too much deadzone, I couldn't even fly straight and level, let alone refuel. Skipping will not be an option sorry.
@@ReflectedSimulations But I can fly straight and level. Just not in formation with a tanker.
@@Atlessa get a Thrustmaster T16000m. Great stick for a hundred bucks or so.
i was doing so well...........i accediently messed up and just decided to shoot the tanker
Repetition. Try, don’t get frustrated, try try and try. It’s something that clicks, and once it does you won’t believe it used to be so frustrating and hard. Or at least, it did for me.
why in the world ED didnt implemented yet the need to close the right doors of air source, the engine could stall for example, or the zip lip formality they use so the enemy wont get any signals where the tanker is, i believe sometimes they use the radio but is when they are over US, ED no offense is being wayyyy to lazy, for die hard fans like me its astonishing after 15 years they didnt do nothing related to this, the situation of bad sealed basket or boom, that would be just to use the same vapor effect we have in the f16 wings, after waiting for so long now i just have is FPS problems with a 4000bucks pc. im very happy that DCS exists but very disappointed in the same degree. by the way reflected i really like what you have done in DCS, tx for those amazing campaigns
I don’t think the engine would stall if you don’t close it. It’s just that you get fuel in the ECM, bad fumes in the cockpit.
Lower your seat as much as possible.
C
ome on bro, just throw on unlimited fuel and weapons and we are ready to go!🤣
You forgot immortality :D
@@ReflectedSimulations with immortality, i must have, more hordes of enemies!
Your campaigns are cringe
So is your spelling ;)
I just raged quit the night refueling in mission 3
keep trying, you'll get there