In fairness, DuPont is absolutely massive. It's expected that they'd show up more often than smaller companies. Not an excuse for negligence of course, but they not be quite as bad as the number if videos would have you believe.
Safety record is a misleading statement, it only track major accident doesn’t count minor wounds, or labor wounds, company doesn’t want to show minor wounds because it represent unsafe conditions, of every wounds is recordable it will show a wider picture
Dupont is also a very huge company, so even if they have an excellent record, they're bound to show up. Imagine you have two chemical companies, one owns 1000 plants while other only owns 50. The bigger company has an excellent safety record, an accident at only 1% of their plants in the last 20 years. The smaller company is far less safe, having had an accident at 10% of their plants in that same timeframe. That would result in the bigger company having an accident at 10 of their plants while the smaller company having an accident at 5 of their plants. If you only looked at the number of accidents, you'd mistakenly think the bigger company was less safe.
I was honestly surprised to see they'd not only used a monitor, but had continuous air monitoring around the tanks. If there's one thing the CSB videos have taught me, though, is that you should never do hot work on or near a tank unless you know for CERTAIN what's in it, and assumptions about the flammability of the contents can be wrong with deadly consequences.
@@m1st3rxmayh3m3 I appreciate your query. What is the best method to test for flammable gas within a tank without exposing the safety auditors to fugitive emissions?
Just remember that while the CSB does great investigative work into workplace accidents and makes great recommendations for change, that's all it can do: _make recommendations_. They can't mandate that any company or industry change anything. In that way they are like the NTSB. Many times the NTSB has to stand by like the CSB does and watch future accidents happen which would have been avoided had their recommendations been acted upon.
And many times when you read about the concerns CSB has and the solutions CSB advocates you go to the report and a "alternative" measure has been implemented. A compromise was made. $$$$$$$s trump safety every time. It takes 3-10 days to get a Site Incident Proposal in the semicon fab industry. You do not move ahead or make changes to the plan without a SIP. The petro-chemical industry is using mostly outdated to outright antiquated equipment, and these bastards put an acceptable loss of life formula in place. Having their insurance company pay for replacing a burned or blown up facility is often preferable to paying to update the facility. They can recoup their losses simply by raising the price of gasoline. The workers I got from the oil industry was some of the most productive workers, but they were also by far and still are the most dangerous workers, with the exception of illegal aliens. It is part of the work culture they come from. If you won't do it, someone else will. If someone else can get it done faster, they will replace you. They are both great workers, but you have to watch them like a bunch of two year olds.
I find this puzzling, here in Norway the "safety boards" are the ones that makes the rules and enforce them and it just makes much more sense, what is the point of a recommendation when you need regulations
CSB says it is an independent investigation agency, which should make their investigations less biased compared to an agency that would have power to mandate
These really are excellent videos. I don't work in the chemical industry, and I'm in Europe not the US, but I do work in a safety critical environment, and your channel is very thought provoking.
I’m getting into welding and my morbid curiosity led me to this channel a while back, this showed up and I knew that I should listen up and learn because it’s the most trustworthy agency with easy to understand analysis
As a motorcyclist who has modified bikes, I can say that everyone I knew was fully aware of the potential hazards of welding a small thing like a motorcycle fuel tank. Any welder who works on a storage tank, however small or large, should satisfy THEMSELVES that the atmosphere is safe before they start work.
It's important to realize that had these workers not been injured in an explosion they would have still been exposed to a powerful carcinogen. The responsibility to check for explosive atmosphere was certainly present however the concern for not exposing workers to vinyl fluoride should have taken absolutely top spot. In the process of preventing worker contamination they probably would have spotted the explosive hazard.
Exactly. ANY halogenated olefin can safely be assumed to be highly carcinogenic. The number of fluoro-olefins that don't cause cancer (e.g. R-1234yf) can be counted on a single hand.
The problem was flammable gas inside the tank; they say in the video there was a continuous gas monitor outside, where the workers would actually be, which was double checked before the work was approved
Honestly they are pretty entertaining too, but I am all for making safety communication interesting because it motivates people to listen to the stories and learn to think about safety intuitively, and not just learn how to pass the assessment portion of the required trainings
Fines basically means "legal for the rich". We've leagalized total disregard for employee safety as long as decision making managers are safe from jail time.
The stockholders, the government officials permitting this to happen over and over by the same company. These are very repetitive stories. The vapor line was the only line they left open, and vapor is what burns. Dude with the detector probably took samples upwind so they could get an all clear. Most likely from orders from above.
No. Fines are the only way a company (as a company then) can be punished. Apart from revoking permits that allow them to store or work with hazardous chemicals. To put a manager into jail, it must be proven that the manager itself was positively negligient. Finding out the responsibility chain and finding out the exact responsibile person for the incident is complicated. Also the personal obligations are very low in corporations, by law, and that is because else the manager would get overhelmed with work if he was for example obligated to personally check that work was done as given. Instead, its enough that the manager gets a written paper that the work X and Y was done, and then its accepted. If the workers was negligent and didn't carry out work as-written, its not the managers fault if a later incident then occurs. Then we have the knowledge chain. What if someone insured the manager that vapors cannot go through that pipe because of pressure difference? Like "When the isolation valves are shut, the tank is full of air and vapors cannot enter" and then manager trusted that, and then it goes wrong because of that. Now I don't say it was like that, but you understand the evidence problem. Thats why fines and revocation of permits are used to punish companies. Then its only neccessary to prove that the company itself was negligent as whole, then its up to the company to patch up whats wrong. Usually, fines are a percentage of turnover, so rich doesn't get a lighter punishment than the poor.
@@sqeekykleen49 >Dude with the detector probably took samples upwind so they could get an all clear. Most likely from orders from above. this conspiratorial mindset. are you cointelpro making us look like a bunch of nuts?
Back in 1979 in Okinawa on a Marine base, I saw two welders working inside an underground jet fuel tank that had been empty for many years. There was a vapor explosion in the tank, luckily, it was a low-grade explosion, for they lived through it. Heating that metal leached chemicals out and built up an explosive atmosphere. Dry tanks can be more dangerous than full tanks. I'm surprised they don't require positive ventilation before and during this type of work, or filling with inert gas or water.
inert gas can cause asphyxiation, especially in a closed tank. a lot of ventilation is a better fit for something like that. also good to keep in mind for the home shop; just cause it's inert, doesn't mean the argon for your welder won't kill ya.
You know your plant uses / produces flammable gases / vapours, you know someone is going to be cutting / welding a tank... how much of a stretch is it to test the tank before allowing the work to happen?!
I have never trusted someone else's flammable gas detector, only my own. Plus, things can affect the readings of a detector, and each one is different. If you have a flammable liquid and flush the air-gas mixture it can go back to a danger level in a few minutes if there is unseen liquid in tiny crevices that you don't see. Also, you carry your own padlocks to close and lock off any valves or electrical contactors and breakers. Recently, a worker went into a sausage grinder at a plant and did not lock off the contactor and switch and someone came and turned on the machine while the man was inside. Horrible! Then another man was locked inside a tuna oven after going inside for a repair because he did not lock off the oven and the electrically operated doors. He died a horrible death being cooked alive! My teachers always emphasized to either LOCK IT OFF or don't work on the unit. I've had people try to turn machinery on several times while I was inside until I just left the job undone and quit the particular job because this idiot would not keep his hands off the electrical switches and was trying to run it while I was working on it. People will kill you if you leave any way for them to do it!
@@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823 I used to be the maintenance guy at an animal feed plant and I had my own padlocks. I believe it saved on more than one occasion as you would hear a worker bitch about what wanker put this f-ing padlock on here!
That's why I spade off any valves/pipes myself, before entering a vesel as I don't trust operators or plant equipment. Your safety is in your own hands.
@@darkpassenger2852 That's not what white collar means -- it doesn't mean white, it means rich. That is, the guy who refused to set a "precedent" of being safe because it would be expensive. I think it's undeniable that the workers pay for those "reduced" operating costs with their lives. Even after fines and litigation, the company is at net gain. So nothing changes. The guys in white collars go home to smoke cigars and drink scotch. Meanwhile the blue collar men get sick from exposure for pennies. It's unforgivable.
This was chilling. This is even more chilling when I realized it happened locally. I live in Lockport and I learned about this case in 2014. My dad got a job here in 2017. I personally think that Dupont needed to learn communication skills, and should've rechecked the tanks the day of the repairs. At least I would've done that, and I'm usually never responsible about anything.
This reminds me of a fatal incident at the BASF plant 20 years ago, when two workers have been killed. They carried out welding work on a tank which contained methanol and formaldehyde.
"Contract worker" - temp. If something happens to him, Dupont is in the clear...the guy works for ABC Temps Inc.One thing is for sure - everybody 'upstairs' is going home. Joe Sixpack.....nah.
As much as I find these videos educational, coming from a guy who is going into building inspection, and safety, I wish they would give memoriam to the lives lost in these accidents.
yeah and the govt wants me to drive an electric car pfft, I haven't even had reg or wof on a car for 10 years. They fix the roads, I might consider paying vehicle taxes again!
I have to thank UCSB for helping me to stay safe, Thank you for such detailed breakdowns of what goes wrong and how to avoid it, as a welder now, I use this knowledge every single day on the job!
Welders and technicians should never assume anything. Check for lockout/tagout on machines, verify personally that tanks and pipe are empty and if required, inerted with shielding gas prior to you striking an arc or firing up a torch. Assume everyone else wants to kill you and remember even nice people are often ignorant, stupid or both. I did and I lived to retire.
So idk if anyone else just watches these just to know things. None of these videos have any value in my field of work but it seems like good knowledge to have
The fact they survived welding on tank 2 is a miracle considering the gas was present in there as well, likely lessened due to the shut down, only for lives to be taken on tank 1 due to lack of proper maintenance checks on the compressor and negligence from higher ups
Not only is vinyl fluoride flammable, it's pretty much just as carcinogenic as its sister molecule vinyl chloride. Exposing these workers to even ppm levels of the gas, let alone ignitable mixtures (10,000's of ppm), is beyond reckless. So much for DuPont being "known for safety". Disgusting.
I see. So by your logic, if someone "monitors" a person shooting into a crowd, then there's nothing to be concerned about. Hey, they were monitoring it! Monitoring a stupid activity is not the same thing as taking simple safety precautions that prevents the stupidity in the first place. The headspace of this tank should have been backfilled with an inert gas to prevent an explosion, for starters...and that would've only taken an hour and $20 worth of gas (and made for a much better weld). Furthermore welding on a non-gastight tank by definition is going to result in occupational exposure. As you heat up the enclosure, the gas is going to escape owing to the change in specific volume (Boyle's Law), and it doesn't take high levels of this stuff to cause lots of problems down the road (aggressive cancer). Unless the welder is required to wear a respirator, they will receive exposure well in excess of PEL. It never ceases to amaze me that people like you exist. You will side with demonstrably bad practices and stupidity to the point you will hurl insults, despite the fact you've been proven completely wrong and have no factual or logical basis for your opinion. God knows what motivates you, I'm guessing a combination of ego and the Dunning Kruger effect. Good luck with your asinine attitude and infantile anger issues.
It's pretty clear you are trying really hard to save face by throwing around insults. You just can't admit that you fucked up, it's always someone else's fault. It doesn't change the fact that you fucked up.
While clearly there were oversights, I’m not convinced they knowingly allowed for exposure. DuPont did a lot of things correctly here, monitoring the atmosphere around the tanks, locking out valves associated, etc. Should they have monitored the atmosphere inside the tank? Absolutely. Should they have known of the presence of hazardous gas? No question. Should they be held at fault for the exposure and explosion? Definitely. Did they intentionally expose anyone? Nothing here indicates that, this just seems to be out of negligence rather than malicious intent.
The sad thing is the CSB has no power, and if it did, it would probably turn corrupt and come under control of a lobby, or politicians joining it would have no idea what they're doing, like every part of the EPA focused on carbon emissions and ignoring metallic contamination and chemicals that nature can't break down.
Many explosions are caused by faulty sensors, confusing monitoring equipment, false computer alarms etc. It would be cool to see the chemical industry adopt some of the aerospace safety standards. Like having multi-channel sensor redundancy, so that the probability of sensor faults can be reduced to 10^-4 catastrophes per equipment per hour.
Oh my God I just gave up. Greed is out of control period Maybe $100k to replace the three tanks and two are obviously dead. 50k a piece and the idiot chemical company is at a total loss. I hope better codes are written, this is just stupid.. Hot work on a system not isolated.
Just curious if funding has been cut for the CSB under the current administration. I've noticed that all videos have stopped, with several apparently in mid production. Bummer.
now I know why when they pull out old residential heating oil tanks its not uncommon for them to dump a crapload of dry ice in. the CO2 from it "melting" forces out anything flammable vapor or just makes an environment where combustion is possible by forcing out the oxygen.
It strikes me as odd that it requires government regulations before companies will exercise some common sense approaches to safety. The common sense approach in this incident would have been to test inside the tank, as well as outside.
Doyle Raizner LLP How naive and lazy of you to not understand human beings will take the easiest path to accomplish any task unless prevented from making catastrophic mistakes.
Historically companies only care about profit and without an outside agency monitoring them they relentlessly fuck up. It's human nature and why smart companies hire outside contractors and welcome government oversight. In the US businesses don't care about more than minimum safety, which is why their internal standards rarely exceed government minimums. In the US labor and management are enemies. This is rather unlike much of Europe where the safety culture is superior. US companies would rather buy insurance than spend on prevention. For some fun, ask tradesmen how much shit the have seen employers get away with! I guarantee entertainment.
US could always adopt the South African Approach .Deadly accident at your plant? then government safety inspectors must close down entire plant whilst investigation takes place. Investigation takes a long time to do properly.
Better than the Soviet approach: cover it up, execute anyone who squeals for ecenomic crimes, and start a state media broadcast series on [rival nation]'s unsafe working conditions.
In my experience, most fixed roof tanks holding potentially flammable liquids are Oxygen free in the vapour space, either by Nitrogen or fuel gas (hydrocarbon) purges, vented to a safe are, or to the flare system.
Lessons learned if you are doing hot work on top of a tank or near one check the tank or around your work area more than once for gas that might combust. Just generally take 10 seconds or so periodically to check for combustible gas while the work is being done.
I work with Resistance Furnaces, Induction Furnaces, and Electrode Furnaces. 2 of those use pure Oxygen to promote combustion. Whenever I have to read through site specific training, I also say “yes” to hot work just to be safe, but I don’t think it qualifies.
I wonder why big corporations like this can't seem to figure out that they could infact have their own specialist teams that are explicitly trained for this kind of work, they have enough plants to warrant such a team where it could likely be even cheaper than contractors plus get the job done right every time.
Basically, if you can see a spark in daylight, it is more than hot enough to light off flammable petrochemicals and volatile hydrocarbons. I worked a shop that did lots of welding, and also preparatory grinding and so forth. Trash cans and sweatshirts were very commonly lit on fire by weld and grinding sparks.
I'm increasingly getting the impression that any large container is dangerous, doesn't matter what it is... water, wheat, manure, grain, pvc, air, beer.... doesn't matter
Hopefully the families of those lost are afforded some comfort by the steps taken to prevent such tragedies in the future. And anyone who is against informed regulation is an enemy to us all.
In past employment, if I so much as wanted to use a hammer and bolster, so not "technically hot work" which "could cause a spark" or ignition source in a potentially explosive atmosphere, all sources of of fumes had to be checked, and a sniffer was ALWAYS present at and around the area...this was whether working in a refinery, a tank farm or a retail setting near bowsers or vent stacks. If a level was detected even nearing the LEL, works would cease until it deemed safe enough to continue. Cheers from Aus!!!!
How come they never recommend jail time? By not doing so is almost as negligent. If corporations are people, legally they are now, close them down and jail the supervisors and managers.
@Doyle Unfortunately safety is not common sense; it is a collection of learning from other peoples mistakes and the attempt to foresee what has not yet happened. Common sense has nothing to do with it and attitudes like yours is what gets people killed at a job site. It is so easy for you to sit back and criticize. DuPont has always been a leader in workplace safety and despite this fatality, considering the hazards they are working within, continue to lead the way in workplace safety.
Is that why DuPont had all of those people working around 1000 lb. phosgene cylinders without requiring ANY PPE? They may have been leaders 30+ years ago, but they sure as hell aren't now. Even BP has a better safety record than they do at this point. Sheesh.
Outside the US, BP has a good safety record, and a rigorous approach to process safety - I did work abroad for BP, and I can guarantee that any shortcuts/rule breaking were proposed by US staff (I hasten to add that not all US staff were like that, many were just as safety-conscious as UK sourced staff).
Not a safety engineer but do hands on work on and around industrial equipment. It was only my common sense to first think they would have checked the air inside the tank. Both top and bottom as heavy gasses stay low in cool air but may rise when the heat from welding enters the process. The monitors outside of course is to monitor the hazards in the air the workers could be exposed to. Very sad for all involved.
CSB: I love these videos. The effort going into them is consistently amazing. I would suggest allowing your employees to speak in a more conversational manner, though professional. They seem stiff and it’s hard to take them seriously, even with the subject matter.
Now that you mention, it is a bit weird that they get the investigators who know this stuff firsthand, and then simply have them read from the report. Nice seeing their faces but their words would be even better.
From the looks of the CGI the tanks had no shaft seal that sure didn't help. Always make sure the tank is empty and balked off valves can leak. The hazards were in perfect place for an event.
For a company with an "excellent safety record" DuPont sure does show up in a lot of these videos...
In fairness, DuPont is absolutely massive. It's expected that they'd show up more often than smaller companies. Not an excuse for negligence of course, but they not be quite as bad as the number if videos would have you believe.
It seems like: every plant will eventually blow up.
Safety record is a misleading statement, it only track major accident doesn’t count minor wounds, or labor wounds, company doesn’t want to show minor wounds because it represent unsafe conditions, of every wounds is recordable it will show a wider picture
It was a contractor
Dupont is also a very huge company, so even if they have an excellent record, they're bound to show up.
Imagine you have two chemical companies, one owns 1000 plants while other only owns 50. The bigger company has an excellent safety record, an accident at only 1% of their plants in the last 20 years. The smaller company is far less safe, having had an accident at 10% of their plants in that same timeframe. That would result in the bigger company having an accident at 10 of their plants while the smaller company having an accident at 5 of their plants. If you only looked at the number of accidents, you'd mistakenly think the bigger company was less safe.
Attn welders: always carry a flammable gas monitor, even if you need to buy one yourself. Your life may depend on it.
You might not be able to detect it inside of a tank
3:55
I was honestly surprised to see they'd not only used a monitor, but had continuous air monitoring around the tanks. If there's one thing the CSB videos have taught me, though, is that you should never do hot work on or near a tank unless you know for CERTAIN what's in it, and assumptions about the flammability of the contents can be wrong with deadly consequences.
Better just mount the welder and walk away for 15 minutes.
If it doesn't go boom, then it is safe :D
@@m1st3rxmayh3m3 I appreciate your query. What is the best method to test for flammable gas within a tank without exposing the safety auditors to fugitive emissions?
Just remember that while the CSB does great investigative work into workplace accidents and makes great recommendations for change, that's all it can do: _make recommendations_. They can't mandate that any company or industry change anything. In that way they are like the NTSB. Many times the NTSB has to stand by like the CSB does and watch future accidents happen which would have been avoided had their recommendations been acted upon.
And many times when you read about the concerns CSB has and the solutions CSB advocates you go to the report and a "alternative" measure has been implemented. A compromise was made. $$$$$$$s trump safety every time. It takes 3-10 days to get a Site Incident Proposal in the semicon fab industry. You do not move ahead or make changes to the plan without a SIP. The petro-chemical industry is using mostly outdated to outright antiquated equipment, and these bastards put an acceptable loss of life formula in place. Having their insurance company pay for replacing a burned or blown up facility is often preferable to paying to update the facility. They can recoup their losses simply by raising the price of gasoline. The workers I got from the oil industry was some of the most productive workers, but they were also by far and still are the most dangerous workers, with the exception of illegal aliens. It is part of the work culture they come from. If you won't do it, someone else will. If someone else can get it done faster, they will replace you. They are both great workers, but you have to watch them like a bunch of two year olds.
I find this puzzling, here in Norway the "safety boards" are the ones that makes the rules and enforce them and it just makes much more sense, what is the point of a recommendation when you need regulations
They probably have to watch the same accident repeat and then civil lawsuits can point to knowledge of the recommendations
@@LastAvailableAlias Exactly. Lawyers can rip them a new one, but that doesn't bring back your dead family members.
CSB says it is an independent investigation agency, which should make their investigations less biased compared to an agency that would have power to mandate
These really are excellent videos. I don't work in the chemical industry, and I'm in Europe not the US, but I do work in a safety critical environment, and your channel is very thought provoking.
We have some dupont facilities in norway, i have worked there as a contractor
I’m getting into welding and my morbid curiosity led me to this channel a while back, this showed up and I knew that I should listen up and learn because it’s the most trustworthy agency with easy to understand analysis
As a motorcyclist who has modified bikes, I can say that everyone I knew was fully aware of the potential hazards of welding a small thing like a motorcycle fuel tank. Any welder who works on a storage tank, however small or large, should satisfy THEMSELVES that the atmosphere is safe before they start work.
I have watched every CSB video. Very well produced & useful
Sheldon Smith has a smooth voice.
Jake Eckert I think he also did the "Engineering Disasters" on Modern Marvels.
Hi lance
I’m gonna be extremely sad when I’m done watching them all :(
It's important to realize that had these workers not been injured in an explosion they would have still been exposed to a powerful carcinogen.
The responsibility to check for explosive atmosphere was certainly present however the concern for not exposing workers to vinyl fluoride
should have taken absolutely top spot. In the process of preventing worker contamination they probably would have spotted the explosive hazard.
Exactly. ANY halogenated olefin can safely be assumed to be highly carcinogenic. The number of fluoro-olefins that don't cause cancer (e.g. R-1234yf) can be counted on a single hand.
I was shocked to learn it was legal to pump it into the atmosphere, yet the govt wants me to drive electric cars!
The problem was flammable gas inside the tank; they say in the video there was a continuous gas monitor outside, where the workers would actually be, which was double checked before the work was approved
US CSB are a fantastic source of training materials - thanks for all your efforts to share key lessons.
Honestly they are pretty entertaining too, but I am all for making safety communication interesting because it motivates people to listen to the stories and learn to think about safety intuitively, and not just learn how to pass the assessment portion of the required trainings
Fines basically means "legal for the rich". We've leagalized total disregard for employee safety as long as decision making managers are safe from jail time.
The stockholders, the government officials permitting this to happen over and over by the same company. These are very repetitive stories. The vapor line was the only line they left open, and vapor is what burns. Dude with the detector probably took samples upwind so they could get an all clear. Most likely from orders from above.
No. Fines are the only way a company (as a company then) can be punished. Apart from revoking permits that allow them to store or work with hazardous chemicals. To put a manager into jail, it must be proven that the manager itself was positively negligient. Finding out the responsibility chain and finding out the exact responsibile person for the incident is complicated. Also the personal obligations are very low in corporations, by law, and that is because else the manager would get overhelmed with work if he was for example obligated to personally check that work was done as given. Instead, its enough that the manager gets a written paper that the work X and Y was done, and then its accepted. If the workers was negligent and didn't carry out work as-written, its not the managers fault if a later incident then occurs.
Then we have the knowledge chain. What if someone insured the manager that vapors cannot go through that pipe because of pressure difference? Like "When the isolation valves are shut, the tank is full of air and vapors cannot enter" and then manager trusted that, and then it goes wrong because of that. Now I don't say it was like that, but you understand the evidence problem.
Thats why fines and revocation of permits are used to punish companies. Then its only neccessary to prove that the company itself was negligent as whole, then its up to the company to patch up whats wrong. Usually, fines are a percentage of turnover, so rich doesn't get a lighter punishment than the poor.
@@sqeekykleen49
>Dude with the detector probably took samples upwind so they could get an all clear. Most likely from orders from above.
this conspiratorial mindset. are you cointelpro making us look like a bunch of nuts?
@@mikuhatsunegoshujin cointelpro that is a three dollar word. Can you give me the definition please?
@@sqeekykleen49
Google, you might be surprised.
Back in 1979 in Okinawa on a Marine base, I saw two welders working inside an underground jet fuel tank that had been empty for many years. There was a vapor explosion in the tank, luckily, it was a low-grade explosion, for they lived through it. Heating that metal leached chemicals out and built up an explosive atmosphere. Dry tanks can be more dangerous than full tanks. I'm surprised they don't require positive ventilation before and during this type of work, or filling with inert gas or water.
inert gas can cause asphyxiation, especially in a closed tank. a lot of ventilation is a better fit for something like that. also good to keep in mind for the home shop; just cause it's inert, doesn't mean the argon for your welder won't kill ya.
@@johnsmith-sp6yl I have often thought of using my argon for suicide
My shop always said, "vent the gas in the tank, or you might as well be cutting or grinding into a bomb."
You know your plant uses / produces flammable gases / vapours, you know someone is going to be cutting / welding a tank... how much of a stretch is it to test the tank before allowing the work to happen?!
I have never trusted someone else's flammable gas detector, only my own. Plus, things can affect the readings of a detector, and each one is different. If you have a flammable liquid and flush the air-gas mixture it can go back to a danger level in a few minutes if there is unseen liquid in tiny crevices that you don't see. Also, you carry your own padlocks to close and lock off any valves or electrical contactors and breakers. Recently, a worker went into a sausage grinder at a plant and did not lock off the contactor and switch and someone came and turned on the machine while the man was inside. Horrible! Then another man was locked inside a tuna oven after going inside for a repair because he did not lock off the oven and the electrically operated doors. He died a horrible death being cooked alive! My teachers always emphasized to either LOCK IT OFF or don't work on the unit. I've had people try to turn machinery on several times while I was inside until I just left the job undone and quit the particular job because this idiot would not keep his hands off the electrical switches and was trying to run it while I was working on it. People will kill you if you leave any way for them to do it!
Yeah, no. Strict rule, no putting my life in the hands of idiots or anyone who drives much worse than I do.
@@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823 I used to be the maintenance guy at an animal feed plant and I had my own padlocks. I believe it saved on more than one occasion as you would hear a worker bitch about what wanker put this f-ing padlock on here!
This video does a great job of illustrating the dangers of hot work. Very nicely done.
always the poor contract worker !! :(
Contract workers are disposable to big companies. Just a fine of like 0.01% of their profits that year or some such
Never be "worker #1."
These videos are fascinating. I worked in many oil and gas facilities and know all too well how these things happen.
Pls know, that I deeply appreciate all yr kindness at uploading these videos.
That's why I spade off any valves/pipes myself, before entering a vesel as I don't trust operators or plant equipment. Your safety is in your own hands.
always have you own gas meter and padlocks!
Man these videos piss me off. Fines are not enough.
@Pet your cats shove your systemic racism insinuations up your ass, Karen.
@@darkpassenger2852 That's not what white collar means -- it doesn't mean white, it means rich.
That is, the guy who refused to set a "precedent" of being safe because it would be expensive.
I think it's undeniable that the workers pay for those "reduced" operating costs with their lives. Even after fines and litigation, the company is at net gain. So nothing changes.
The guys in white collars go home to smoke cigars and drink scotch. Meanwhile the blue collar men get sick from exposure for pennies.
It's unforgivable.
@@anonymousposter6461 no shit sherlock....and those systemic racism peddlers think most rich people are white, soooooooio
@@darkpassenger2852 you are aoutistic
@@darkpassenger2852 Next time try to think before replying and proving to everyone that you're a total twat.
This was chilling. This is even more chilling when I realized it happened locally. I live in Lockport and I learned about this case in 2014. My dad got a job here in 2017. I personally think that Dupont needed to learn communication skills, and should've rechecked the tanks the day of the repairs. At least I would've done that, and I'm usually never responsible about anything.
This reminds me of a fatal incident at the BASF plant 20 years ago, when two workers have been killed. They carried out welding work on a tank which contained methanol and formaldehyde.
I didn't know formaldehyde was flammable. Huh.
Or the BASF incident in 1921 where a tower of ammonium nitrate exploded and killed 600 people. It created a crater 62ft deep.
CSB sets the standard for agency informational videos. I'm an emergency services director... don't do anything with chemicals, but i love your videos!
"Contract worker" - temp.
If something happens to him, Dupont is in the clear...the guy works for ABC Temps Inc.One thing is for sure - everybody 'upstairs' is going home.
Joe Sixpack.....nah.
As much as I find these videos educational, coming from a guy who is going into building inspection, and safety, I wish they would give memoriam to the lives lost in these accidents.
His name was Richard Folaron; he was 57.
news.wbfo.org/post/osha-cites-dupont-and-buffalo-contractor-fatal-explosion
"While a small flashtank released risidual vinyl fluoride into the atomosphere" yup, that sounds about right
yeah and the govt is trying to make me drive electric cars!
Is it just me or do alot of these chemical processes have a junction where....insert toxic chemical name here...is "vented to atmosphere"
Yeah that seems to be built in to every chemical plant... Concerning.
yeah and the govt wants me to drive an electric car pfft, I haven't even had reg or wof on a car for 10 years. They fix the roads, I might consider paying vehicle taxes again!
I have to thank UCSB for helping me to stay safe, Thank you for such detailed breakdowns of what goes wrong and how to avoid it, as a welder now, I use this knowledge every single day on the job!
You know they make good videos when people not even in the industry that these videos are relevant to are watching them.
Welders and technicians should never assume anything. Check for lockout/tagout on machines, verify personally that tanks and pipe are empty and if required, inerted with shielding gas prior to you striking an arc or firing up a torch.
Assume everyone else wants to kill you and remember even nice people are often ignorant, stupid or both. I did and I lived to retire.
I had my own gas meter and padlocks when I was on maintenance!
So idk if anyone else just watches these just to know things. None of these videos have any value in my field of work but it seems like good knowledge to have
I love the delivery of the talking head sections of these videos.
That’s weird. I would never even CONSIDER working in an enclosed space without proper ventilation and without closing lines to/from the area
The fact they survived welding on tank 2 is a miracle considering the gas was present in there as well, likely lessened due to the shut down, only for lives to be taken on tank 1 due to lack of proper maintenance checks on the compressor and negligence from higher ups
CSB Team you are doing fantastic work, please carry on, this is really very helpful for chemical plant operator.
It bothers me that seemingly similar accidents occur repeatedly. It's like these accidents and regulations are "blown off"... literally.
Not only is vinyl fluoride flammable, it's pretty much just as carcinogenic as its sister molecule vinyl chloride. Exposing these workers to even ppm levels of the gas, let alone ignitable mixtures (10,000's of ppm), is beyond reckless. So much for DuPont being "known for safety". Disgusting.
They weren't knowingly exposed, you moron. Did you not watch the part about air quality outside the tank being continuously monitored?
I see. So by your logic, if someone "monitors" a person shooting into a crowd, then there's nothing to be concerned about. Hey, they were monitoring it! Monitoring a stupid activity is not the same thing as taking simple safety precautions that prevents the stupidity in the first place. The headspace of this tank should have been backfilled with an inert gas to prevent an explosion, for starters...and that would've only taken an hour and $20 worth of gas (and made for a much better weld).
Furthermore welding on a non-gastight tank by definition is going to result in occupational exposure. As you heat up the enclosure, the gas is going to escape owing to the change in specific volume (Boyle's Law), and it doesn't take high levels of this stuff to cause lots of problems down the road (aggressive cancer). Unless the welder is required to wear a respirator, they will receive exposure well in excess of PEL.
It never ceases to amaze me that people like you exist. You will side with demonstrably bad practices and stupidity to the point you will hurl insults, despite the fact you've been proven completely wrong and have no factual or logical basis for your opinion. God knows what motivates you, I'm guessing a combination of ego and the Dunning Kruger effect. Good luck with your asinine attitude and infantile anger issues.
It's pretty clear you are trying really hard to save face by throwing around insults. You just can't admit that you fucked up, it's always someone else's fault. It doesn't change the fact that you fucked up.
+KiloByte You're beyond incompetent. Don't talk about stuff you don't understand.
While clearly there were oversights, I’m not convinced they knowingly allowed for exposure. DuPont did a lot of things correctly here, monitoring the atmosphere around the tanks, locking out valves associated, etc.
Should they have monitored the atmosphere inside the tank? Absolutely.
Should they have known of the presence of hazardous gas? No question.
Should they be held at fault for the exposure and explosion? Definitely.
Did they intentionally expose anyone? Nothing here indicates that, this just seems to be out of negligence rather than malicious intent.
Сварочные работы -это работы повышенной опасности. При их проведении требуется соблюдение всех инструкций и правил.
The CSB does some great work.
You can find plenty of videos online of people welding on tanks with fumes in them and the resulting explosion.
The sad thing is the CSB has no power, and if it did, it would probably turn corrupt and come under control of a lobby, or politicians joining it would have no idea what they're doing, like every part of the EPA focused on carbon emissions and ignoring metallic contamination and chemicals that nature can't break down.
At 1:18 they show the speed limit of 13mph. Maybe some will think it's weird they chose an unlucky number.
I came to the comments to say just that lol
13 mph is approx 20 Km/hr, which may be how they arrived at the figure.
Many explosions are caused by faulty sensors, confusing monitoring equipment, false computer alarms etc. It would be cool to see the chemical industry adopt some of the aerospace safety standards. Like having multi-channel sensor redundancy, so that the probability of sensor faults can be reduced to 10^-4 catastrophes per equipment per hour.
I hope these hot workers are compensated relative to the danger
I just noticed but I love how the animated operator just rag dolls when the explosion happens right at the beginning of the video
Jeez, eleven accidents led to the issuing of a safety bulletin in 2010.
How many people have to die before adequate safety procedures are mandated?
Yeah… as an amateur welder, i always make sure any cylinder or part that can house a flammable gas is empty. Hell. I dont even trust propane tanks.
Oh my God I just gave up. Greed is out of control period
Maybe $100k to replace the three tanks and two are obviously dead.
50k a piece and the idiot chemical company is at a total loss.
I hope better codes are written, this is just stupid.. Hot work on a system not isolated.
No more codes and regulations. They just need to start executing people when their recklessness leads to the deaths of their employees.
Why hadn't uscbs recommend atmospheric monitoring long before any of these explosions occurred? Or had they and the companies not did this?
You NEVER weld on any size tank or pipe without purging with nitrogen or in this case I would want lid opend so I could check inside
even so locking valves for lines is not enough. they should all be blinded.
Just curious if funding has been cut for the CSB under the current administration. I've noticed that all videos have stopped, with several apparently in mid production. Bummer.
Never trust a company saying it's safe, check it yourself
CSB case studies are veryuseful to evaluate my personal information and skills in HSE
now I know why when they pull out old residential heating oil tanks its not uncommon for them to dump a crapload of dry ice in. the CO2 from it "melting" forces out anything flammable vapor or just makes an environment where combustion is possible by forcing out the oxygen.
It strikes me as odd that it requires government regulations before companies will exercise some common sense approaches to safety. The common sense approach in this incident would have been to test inside the tank, as well as outside.
Doyle Raizner LLP How naive and lazy of you to not understand human beings will take the easiest path to accomplish any task unless prevented from making catastrophic mistakes.
If only they had hired a highly qualified armchair expert like you with 20/20 hindsight...
No need to even test the inside, they just should have backfilled with N2 and been done with it. Assume the worst and come out alive.
Historically companies only care about profit and without an outside agency monitoring them they relentlessly fuck up. It's human nature and why smart companies hire outside contractors and welcome government oversight. In the US businesses don't care about more than minimum safety, which is why their internal standards rarely exceed government minimums. In the US labor and management are enemies. This is rather unlike much of Europe where the safety culture is superior. US companies would rather buy insurance than spend on prevention.
For some fun, ask tradesmen how much shit the have seen employers get away with! I guarantee entertainment.
Saw a quote that went something like "every regulation is written in blood."
These are mostly the stories of the blood that wrote the regulations.
US could always adopt the South African Approach .Deadly accident at your plant? then government safety inspectors must close down entire plant whilst investigation takes place. Investigation takes a long time to do properly.
That would interrupt corporate profits, an unacceptable condition.
@@samsmith3025, fuck their profits they should've had it done right the first time.
Better than the Soviet approach: cover it up, execute anyone who squeals for ecenomic crimes, and start a state media broadcast series on [rival nation]'s unsafe working conditions.
@@oron61 Disasters of this scale are clearly impossible in the Soviet Union, you're delusional. ;)
You didn't see graphite [all over the roof of reactor #3.] You didn't. You *DIDN'T!* Because it's *Not. There!*
CSB reccommends that companies do not kill workers ...
I always love welding and smoking cigarettes near flammable gasses and chemicals.
What can go wrong?
Same it’s my hobby
With a shared vapor/vent line all three tanks could blown and possibly carried the flame to other parts of the process.
wait do they not have a hot work permit safety program and if not why ?
easy way to stay safe is to consider all tank contents to be explosive.
This is indeed good for training, will change mindset towards health & safety within a workplace
I know one of these videos is about nitrogen asphyxiation, but flushing tanks that regularly hold flammables can't be that onerous.
It's not. It just takes a little more time and preparation. It's just another N2 tank, a regulator, and a hose, and an hour or so to let it fill up.
In my experience, most fixed roof tanks holding potentially flammable liquids are Oxygen free in the vapour space, either by Nitrogen or fuel gas (hydrocarbon) purges, vented to a safe are, or to the flare system.
Very informative videos on industrial safety.
Lessons learned if you are doing hot work on top of a tank or near one check the tank or around your work area more than once for gas that might combust. Just generally take 10 seconds or so periodically to check for combustible gas while the work is being done.
This narrator needs to be in documentaries investigating all the crashes in Thomas the Tank engine in his spare time.
I work with Resistance Furnaces, Induction Furnaces, and Electrode Furnaces. 2 of those use pure Oxygen to promote combustion. Whenever I have to read through site specific training, I also say “yes” to hot work just to be safe, but I don’t think it qualifies.
Those hot work permits are usually just handed out very cavalierly and without serious thought process
I've worked in a Dupont plant year's ago, and like all chemical companies I worked in, it was nasty and a accident waiting to happen.
You again dupont?
I wonder why big corporations like this can't seem to figure out that they could infact have their own specialist teams that are explicitly trained for this kind of work, they have enough plants to warrant such a team where it could likely be even cheaper than contractors plus get the job done right every time.
Unverified assumptions is what causes accidents.
Who was accountable from DuPont about this incident?
Oh snap, a local review from CSB. A manufacturing facility I worked at machined Corian
Man these types of stories always freak me out every time I have to do hot work similad to these scenarios
How hot 🔥 are the sparks coming from weld arc? Or, it don't take much heat to ignite a flammable chemical?
Basically, if you can see a spark in daylight, it is more than hot enough to light off flammable petrochemicals and volatile hydrocarbons. I worked a shop that did lots of welding, and also preparatory grinding and so forth. Trash cans and sweatshirts were very commonly lit on fire by weld and grinding sparks.
Damn i live in Tonawanda not to far from Dupont and never heard about this explosion, granted I was 10 when it happened.
I'm increasingly getting the impression that any large container is dangerous, doesn't matter what it is... water, wheat, manure, grain, pvc, air, beer.... doesn't matter
Hopefully the families of those lost are afforded some comfort by the steps taken to prevent such tragedies in the future.
And anyone who is against informed regulation is an enemy to us all.
I feel bad about this one. It seems they took multiple precautions to prevent an accident and genuinely believed the work area was safe.
In past employment, if I so much as wanted to use a hammer and bolster, so not "technically hot work" which "could cause a spark" or ignition source in a potentially explosive atmosphere, all sources of of fumes had to be checked, and a sniffer was ALWAYS present at and around the area...this was whether working in a refinery, a tank farm or a retail setting near bowsers or vent stacks. If a level was detected even nearing the LEL, works would cease until it deemed safe enough to continue.
Cheers from Aus!!!!
How come they never recommend jail time? By not doing so is almost as negligent. If corporations are people, legally they are now, close them down and jail the supervisors and managers.
@Doyle Unfortunately safety is not common sense; it is a collection of learning from other peoples mistakes and the attempt to foresee what has not yet happened. Common sense has nothing to do with it and attitudes like yours is what gets people killed at a job site. It is so easy for you to sit back and criticize. DuPont has always been a leader in workplace safety and despite this fatality, considering the hazards they are working within, continue to lead the way in workplace safety.
DuPont employee?
Is that why DuPont had all of those people working around 1000 lb. phosgene cylinders without requiring ANY PPE? They may have been leaders 30+ years ago, but they sure as hell aren't now. Even BP has a better safety record than they do at this point. Sheesh.
Outside the US, BP has a good safety record, and a rigorous approach to process safety - I did work abroad for BP, and I can guarantee that any shortcuts/rule breaking were proposed by US staff (I hasten to add that not all US staff were like that, many were just as safety-conscious as UK sourced staff).
Gas testing failing to detect the gases to worry about seems a common theme.
Induction heat cutting is the best for those hard to reach places.
Lead investigator Mark Wingard looks remarkably like Chris Pratt
This is the same narrator for forensic files ....
Not a safety engineer but do hands on work on and around industrial equipment. It was only my common sense to first think they would have checked the air inside the tank. Both top and bottom as heavy gasses stay low in cool air but may rise when the heat from welding enters the process. The monitors outside of course is to monitor the hazards in the air the workers could be exposed to. Very sad for all involved.
CSB: I love these videos. The effort going into them is consistently amazing.
I would suggest allowing your employees to speak in a more conversational manner, though professional. They seem stiff and it’s hard to take them seriously, even with the subject matter.
Now that you mention, it is a bit weird that they get the investigators who know this stuff firsthand, and then simply have them read from the report. Nice seeing their faces but their words would be even better.
"Well, hundreds of workers killed and billions in damages later, we're finally 100% safe."
Didn't TELL him what he was working on? omg. If he had known, he could have taken additional precautions.
Where was his fire watch at??
This is much better csb
It just seems like common sense to test for lel inside the tank. A nitrogen purge could have prevented this as well.
From the looks of the CGI the tanks had no shaft seal that sure didn't help. Always make sure the tank is empty and balked off valves can leak. The hazards were in perfect place for an event.
I swear they spend more money on these animated videos then they do on safety...
I wonder who wrote that permit
Does anything ever happen to the people that sign the papers saying everything is safe and it’s ok to go ahead with the work??
Never, in the U.S. they face no consequences.
Go in there and weld .. experienced worker no way. It's not safe inexperienced worker Hold my beer
That contract company was Mollenberg Betz
Why wait for an accident to happen before you do anything about it