War Thunder Top Tier is Awful | Feat. F-16C
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- I finally remembered my RUclips password :)
The F-16C is quite obviously a great jet, but top tier is so not fun that I just don’t care for it. I can’t wait for the addition of AIM-120’s, surely this will fix ARB. :clueless:
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Игры
Can't wait for Gaijin to powercreep this powercreep plane with another powercreep plane! Truly amazing balancing from the dev team...
Also good video Mr Whale
you really can't powercreep an F-16C by too much. it's comparable and very competitive against any and all non 5th gen (f22,su57,f35 ect) jets.
At least it might be 12.7 which will lessen my 11.3 suffering
Powercreep cycle
@@YTaccNo3 They'll probably gimp it by not giving it AMRAAM or 9X until other jets have had them for ages to get people to buy premiums and grind the other jets lol
It's a Block 50, it can get AIM-120C-5s and AIM-9Xs. This thing won't get powercrept until very late Gen 4s or Gen 5s come into the game.
The game mode is the issue, not the "point and click" thing. Let's remember Air RB was designed for WWII aircraft. They really gotta come up with a mode that reflects actual modern air combat.
For that we NEED a 2v2, 3v3 or at max. 6v6 mode for RB and need to stop this WW1 Air Battle mode thing design ... I only play Sim. at this point because I don't have either the patience, the nerves and the will to fly and play Top Tier in this F*** Sh*t Wollknäuel (Ball of wool as we say in German^^) where everybody is killing each other like you play a Quake or Halo Match...
@@sagichdochned no, for air rb it should be 8v8 then we should have a subsection for bvr and dogfights where it’s 3v3. 2v2 and 1v1 in like a ranked playlist
Air RB map was also designed for WW2 planes. These modern aircraft should have had a much bigger map and with better objectives rather than WW1 style furball, which it always boiled down to. An endurance confrontation map mode with lots of objectives to complete is how you can utilize these planes to its full potential
Yeah there needs to be a "sortie" feel to it I think. Where we have wings that all have diff objectives or something.
Go play Air EC you nerds. I like the current state of Air RB since it resembles the epic dogfight in Area B7R
Tbh gaijin needs to make air RB into something that isnt just 3 minute team deathmatch. AI and objectives should be more meaningful and we should be able to respawn in a match with line ups like ground RB.
No lineups please. It would make small nations even worse. You could either choose between USA with 3 F16, 2 F14, 2/3 F4 plus some other aircrafts like F5e ect or Japan with a F16 and a F4 🤣
No line ups but a respawn would be cool
@@OzzyTheWild They can do what they do for new tech trees. Give 2-3 free "back ups" per game. That way Japan gets at least 3 F16 spawns etc.
@@thebean8255 yeah it makes more sense like this
If you want to have fun in top tier air play ground RB LOL
Gaijin trying not to ruin the game with power creep challenge: (Impossible)
The Air RB game mode at top tier is aweful. 16 vs 16 makes no sense with these jets and RB just ends up feeling like AB. They need a reduced player count for Air RB. Maybe 10 vs 10. We could also do with a separate Air RB EC mode with respawning - shoulda been added years ago. Gaijin just doesn't seem very focused on Air RB atm which is why its completely broken.
agree
Playing the f14 is just not fun because you WILL die there is nothing you can do unless you stay completely out of the fight and then you either kill a team mate or the missile hits the ground because everyone is cutting the grass.
Air RB EC would make top tier enjoyable
They aren’t worried about the game modes they are worried about adding new shit so premium players and xbox players will buy premiums and not think that that isnt how it should be
@@yujinhikita5611lowkey a skill issue. The f14 gets both good missiles and a really good airframe
AIM-120: I can't wait to join in on this dumpster fire!!! *jumping up and down like it know where it is and where it isn't
The mirage 2000 imo is still the funniest jet at top tier, because you actually have to work more to get your kills. The magic 2 aren’t as maneuverable as the r73, and don’t have the range of the aim9l, so you have to think to launch them. And this is even more so true considering 4 missiles is all you get. However, the 2000 5F kinda became more point and click with the addition of the HMD, but hey, at least it’s somewhat funny while still not getting destroyed by US/USSR top dogs.
I strongly believe that 16v16 matches are the worst thing to happen to high tier jets, especially top tier, and I really hope, with the addition of fox3s, to have 8v8 max games, with larger maps. Might seem a bit more boring to your average weeaboo war thunder wallet warrior player, but for people wanting to notch and crank and have some interesting high altitude BVR duels such as those you see on DCS (the only reason I play top tier war thunder is because I can’t run DCS), it could be extremely fun to play
16 v 16 on a top tier match where everyone is a fighter and clustered in the middle of the map (thanks Gaijin for expanding the map but not adding more targets on the outskirts) is definitely a horrible experience. 16 v 16 at lower BR (if the targets are spread out) would be more feasible because we start to see more attack aircrafts and bombers.
I still hate Gaijin though. Player want less intense fights, thus requesting expanded map. Gaijin does that, but increases the player count while keeping all targets the same place without adding more targets. It literally just makes it frustrating for everyone.
People who want less intense get way more intense and bland fight.
People who want to have bigger maps don't feel a difference because all the objectives are in the middle, and everyone flocks there.
Everyone experiences reduced reward because there are more people in a lobby but the same number of objectives (same number of AI planes and AI ground units and bases).
Literally only Gaijin wins.
Tbh i feel like magics are free kills under 2km
i think the issue partly is the planes that these are based off irl and the more Arcady nature of warthunder as well. Modern jet's are a ton of fun to fly in games like dcs because alot of the fun is behind technical skill and learning how to fly the aircraft effectively, but because of how warthunder is. Its oversimplified extremely complicated weapon system's to just a few button presses. Combine that with extremely small map's and a hilariously large number of fighter's in a very small area of oporation and its just.. not fun.
Plus the markers and 3rd person view. That coupled with such easy to handle controls on modern fighters creates pure chaos
Whole teams just get wiped out in less than five minutes, and every match is the same planes against each other, I don't see any fun in top tier battle
Air RB shouldn't have blips show up for enemies and not just sim battles.
You know... I can think of a plane that would have made a much better addition this update.... hmm, I wonder what it is???
ah yes the f111 i agree it would have been better to add
too true Lee too true
Gripen 😉
f18 would have been a better choice
Give this man his F-15 already 😂
the issue with WT top tier ARB rn is maps.
the maps are WAY too small still, which means everybody lemming train into a clusterfuck.
WT need to either have EC ARB with no markers, randomize spawns (so everybody get spread out on multiple air fields dozens miles apart, squad spawn together), and make objectives spread out, and improve map features. map need more vertical features like high mountains - Caucasus, Rockies, the Himalayas or even the Ural mountains could all be great map inspirations.
Well if you don't like point and click adventures lower tiers are wide open, top tier is "reality" of modern combat and will get more crazy with AIM-120s and so on.
And there we have it : gaijin ain't developing not videogame, just a product designed to hook warfare fans into spending stupid amount of money for a bunch of overpowered pixels.
@@bounidadada4057it’s not that deep
The problem is there is nothing realistic about a 16 v 16 engagement
There is nothing realistic about any War Thunder gameplay
low tier isnt the same gameplay as high tier tho.
First we had a10 and su 25 ruin the korea war matchmaker.
Then f5 spam ruin 10.3 matchmaker
and now we dont even have sorta balanced top tier anymore because r73 and aim9m are so much better than anything else
I think the title of the video is super accurate. The playerbase was not ready for this. Just like entering into early jets, then the missile age, this is another big learning curve for the players. Unfortunately, most people still just light the burner and charge dick first at the other team. With more ARHMs coming soon, people need to learn how to properly position and defend against these new threats. But most people would rather just complain until they nerf the new gen weapons down to marginally better 9-Ls.
Gaijin also does not help by putting all the objectives in the middle and not adding more across the map to make fights more locally isolated.
it really depends man, many have different definitions of fun. Some people enjoy top tier gameplay simply because of their likeness to modern combat. Just because nothing plays like how it use too doesnt mean its bad. You dont see american soldiers deployed in modern wars with lee enfields do we? For me id rather top tier keeps getting higher so early era jets can reach a point where their uptiers may not include supersonics with strong IR missiles because those said supersonics will be uptiered to something more closer to their era of technology. Theres a lot of crying and seething over how OUR ACTUAL WORLD chooses to progress military technology and its funny to see kids complain these details when they themselves clearly understand how miltech has progressed throughout the years and are still blinded. Its like watching a kid recite a history book and saying why is history like this ? its not fair boo hoo.
@crimsonwolf866 all I'm saying is the playstyle to be successful has/is changing again. The idea of rushing forward skimming the dirt doesn't work as well as it did. Once things like the AMRAAM enter the top tiers, that playstyle dies faster than the players still using it.
My main point was that defeating the new 9M and R73 is not the impossible task that alot of the player base makes it out to be. But if you treat them like every other missile, you are going to have a bad time.
@@Ravnican127isnt that not how miltech works then? literally way easier for any military to spend on making weapons stronger than making new vehicles. War thunder is hardly fictional with only a few prototypes and concepts in the game. Its built on trying to replicate what we have throughout history. Lol u think we would know because we do. Im pretty sure many military tech scientist go through this conundrum knowing if it was to be replicated in a program said users of that program would have to learn the same issue they presented them. Otherwise why the hell was the aim 9m produced when they couldve just continued with the aim 9L.
@@Ravnican127 The issue is, people would rather rush and die as long as their SL/hr and RP/hr number is high as opposed to playing it 'correctly' by preserving life and making sure your team loses the least assets while the enemy suffers so much (in real life goal). In WT, you would rather have 0.8 KD if that means 250k SL/hr and 50k RP/hr gain.
Totally true. I always find myself going back to props or early jets, where skill matters the most. Yes doging missiles is a skill, but way more RNG happens at top tier and i just love the dogfights and andrenalien you get form a really good dogfight where you almost dont win. IVe played this game for years and im really sad about how top tier has turned out.
"I keep the Sparrow for people who don't know not to climb at Top Tier" Very next clip you're up in the air in an SMT..
Because he knows how to notch and how to evade radar missiles. That F4s did nothing
Fair point. The difference is that I positioned myself above the line of sight of virtually all the enemies. Meanwhile the F-4S was not high enough to offer him any advantage, while also allowing me to 7M him very easily.
@@WalvisYT yeah exactly. There’s a huge difference between being at 2km of altitude and 5km of altitude
"top tier are point and click and its not fun"
SU27: May i introduce my self ?
( ik at the time this video has been out the su27 was just a dream)
your editing is so good i genuinely went into the game to double check if the Barack II was actually called the Barack Obama II
The problem is that throwing multiple planes in one map with one spawn might work in lower tiers but it does not work in higher tiers because it becomes a giant cluster fck.
Who is this man on my recommendations?
a GOAT
W H A L E
4:58 finally someone else calling the Barak f-16 the Obama
Prop fighters are often far more fun to play. Higher tier jet combat is far too often a battle of 'haves' and 'have nots.' Missiles vs no missiles. Supersonic vs subsonic. PD radar vs radar without. Planes with countermeasures vs those without. It's not just BR compression. The attempt to represent aircraft 'faithfully' to their real life counterparts runs at odds with the fact that they very rarely get to engage in the kind of role they were really designed for. And a few zoomy meta planes with good missiles invariable come out on top.
I think the fact that Gaijin skipped the Mig-25 says a lot.
I feel like once the proliferation of fox-3s become a thing in WT, matches are going to play much differently, where people will actually be able to properly defend and these high-g fox-2s won't be as important at the start of the round.
It’s gonna be far worse when they add the true BVR active radar missiles. The game was never meant for such weapons, the maps are far too small, and 95% of the player base has no idea how modern BVR combat works, much less the ability to survive a modern active radar missile
Trust me people will adapt to it in 1-3 months.
You should do a video comparing the old top tier gameplay, even up to the Draken's Addition to the Modern Top Tier
2:47 that MiG you team killed was me lmao, unfortunately I didn’t see your DM but apology accepted nonetheless haha
That's why these jets must be played in simulation to have a minimum of skill and challenge. Realistic battles will quickly become boring in 12.3, because yes, the skill is just to place yourself correctly and get lucky and the rest is pressed a button and the kill is done by itself. But even in simu the F16C is very strong, I do minimum 14kills with while I do not yet have the aim9m, but its radar is so good that even with the 4xaim9l and the 2xaim7f it is formidable. But aim9m are very very very dangerous because they have no smoke and they are almost impossible to dodge.
Sim is even more ruined than RB because of the F-16's, nothing can fight against them. Even when F-16 vs F-16 it usually boils down to who got the drop on the other or who knows they can drop throttle, open air brake, and do a very sharp turn to get a solution on the other. Top that with UStards spamming that bracket, it is not fun. Why would I bother trying to us my J-8F when 1) it gets inferior missiles that don't ignore flares 2) heavily outnumbered and 3) the F-16 gets to just UFO around and nothing I do could ever get one off me. This is why its so fucking stupid that gaijin keeps adding more US/Russia top tiers instead of other nation counterparts. If I had a J-10A, maybe I could actually keep up, but no we don't have that.
can u give me any tips for the f16c on sim battles?
If pvp isn't fun anymore, Gaijin should rework objectives so that they actually matter
I came up with a really good PvE mode for Aircraft based on DCS, but last I saw it was still pending.
Like you said, it's not even really the planes fault. It's flying and performing pretty much as any jet from that era should. Dogfighting is an extinct concept today and it's all about missile performance over ranges for 20+ miles. The plane can fly like a brick but it hardly matters when it's mainly about who launches what missile first.
Akin to how they should add a "tank only" mode for ground players sick of CAS. They should add a "gun only" mode for air RB.
That's why I mostly play Air Assault Arcade, even the F-16C is doing great at that game mode with it's AIM-9M.
bro 💀
Players: You can't add the R-73 it's too op.
Gaijin: Too OP? Okay what if we give an even better jet a more OP missile, unflarable and invisablel?
Just pop one flare and then turn. The 9M turns the seaker off so you only need a single flare.
9M turns of its seeker and goes by internal guidence when it detects flares while the r73 basically "ignores" any other heat signature then the one it intially locked on to. Pop flares and do a turn combined with elevation change to dodge 90% of the time
For me taking off with min fuel, lobbing 6 phoenixes at 6km alt, and getting kills while going back to base is fun
I mean when we get modern weaponry that’s what we get lmao, less guns more missiles, around 11.0-11.3 is where I’d say jets use missiles more than guns. In modern combat irl you’re shooting missiles and killing them from bvr (beyond visual range), u don’t even see them so the state we’re at rn isn’t even close to irl situations. I think that’s gonna change massively when we get modern fox 3 missiles like the amraam, r77, pl12, and eventually the meteor.
Gaijin are already about to release higher BR planes than 12.3... meanwhile half the nations are sitting on 11.3 and 11.7...
I maintain the belief that a top-tier “guns-only” game mode would be incredibly fun for all involved
dude that start gave me Zetaris vibes. Wish he'd comeback. never the less good video
Amazing intro🎉
Simple solution is not letting players to see enemy’s name tags in RB battle.
love this style of video
Thank you!
what is the song you used in the end of your video?
i watched 20 seconds and it was enough to make me subscribe
Thank you!
It’s almost like the most advanced countries i invested the best weapons to counter each other to prevent dog fights
Gaijin's humongous brain on not adding R-73 to the 9-13 is insane
going up against r-73 and 9m in the f14-a suckssss. Sure you can flare maybe 2 of them if you are carrying chaff as well, but there are gonna be so many of these missles in one game that it just makes it impossible to play...
The call of duty with planes feel of top tier air was for sure a lot more fun when ir missiles felt like an awareness check and could be easily flared. When there's just nothing I can do better and still die it takes a lot of the enjoyment out for me.
Hei Walvis your videos are really chill and I wanted to have your opinion on war Thunder sim with mouse and keyboard? I have the Logitech extreme 3d pro and it would be enough but I’m to stupid to use the mouse with the left hand so idk is m&k even worth using cause it feels like yes I mean sure there will be a disadvantage but not significant I feel
I prefer to play sim with VR + HOTAS, however it can still be very fun and playable with mouse and keyboard. You can always try out the latter for free (as you probably already have a m&k), and if you then realize you enjoy sim enough to want to play with a joystick, you could then consider looking into some kind of headtracking or even VR.
5:09 Yes he is indeed French great observation!
I like to just fly around the side of the main area and then come from the enemys spawn
*Cus generally about half the people on each team die so then its a bearable amount of jets to keep track of and fight*
Might I recommend playing with the tornado for a much more difficult experience 😂
I'm a simple man. I see well edited memes in warthunder video, I subscribe
i like flying the 16 for the off chance you might get into an epic 1v1 dog fight off on the edge of the map somewhere.. had a good one with a 29 earlier this morning
Welcome to modern warfare where all you have to do is look at that thing and that thing dosen't exsist anymore, and whoever can look harder is going to win every time
this is why i really like the addition of the clouds. cant shoot ir missiles through them
Nice nod to Zetaris there
Have you heard the news on SP? they just released it's final update..
Yep I'm wuite sad about that.
The fact that the 9M is hard to decoy even front-aspect is a joke. Sure I can understand and support advanced IR missiles in game to ignore CMs when fired rear-aspect, because that makes sense, and can be pseudo notched, but near immunity to CMs in all-aspect…
Honestly, this is one of the many reasons top tier doesn't interest me, it feels like there is no skill required. You have to grind so long, improve your skills, invest time to understand the game's systems and mechanics just to get to 12.3, use basic combat maneuvers and boom, AIM-9M kills for days. SimplePlanes missile jousting stuff with the AI is more fun than this lmao.
Personally, i'll stick to my props and subsonic gunfighters, maybe get the odd supersonic here or there like a Super Sabre or so.
Great vid as always!
"zetaris and his consequences have been a disaster for the war thunder community"
ok so now imagine when aamraams come
They need to lower the amount of players at high tier jets. 6v6 or 5v5 . So we don’t have a missile team death match, and so that dogfights become more frequent
the absolute state of top tier is just braindead its not even fun anymore
“Pray they don’t know how to flare an aim 9m”
I’ll be the one to ask, how DO you flare aim 9ms?
After genuinely months of grinding the American tech tree, finally getting the F16C feels like a dream. FINALLY I can have fun. Finally my grind has been worth it. Finally I feel like I’m competitive.
Perhaps that will change once I’ve had it for a couple of months but right now it’s the most fun I’ve had in the game since joining (I’ve been playing on and off since 2013 very casually).
5:08 idk man he looks more Finnish to me than French but I only have two eyes
For top tier gaijin should add operations size maps with different capabilities, some matches should be carrier launched aircraft with the enemy being airfield based with your points being influenced by your planes role (no su25s and 27s turning into victims trying to dogfight my f14) if your a ground attack multirole you should be given bonus points for hitting your targets which your plane is designed to kill. Ground attack planes could be given anti base/vehicle objectives with bonus points to encourage it and fighters get bonus points for protecting the ground attack jets, if they add high tier jet bombers even stealth ones interceptors like tomcats and foxbats should be prioritized to engage them with bonus points
so how do i flare a aim 9 m ?
Sim battles fixes this issue very well in my opinion, although the battles are longer, maps are bigger and youre stuck in first person, the dogfights are so much better and more entertaining, and you can respawn as much as you like.
I just got the f16a and c ind a combined 4 days… i feel empty
Wait, this isn't Cookie Clicker? What have I been playing all this time then?
The only way to enjoy top tier is sim. Player count is usually much smaller and you have lots of very engaging 1v1 or 2v2 at best.
they really need to add more gamemodes. Would be nice to have a dogfight/furball mode and a BVR mode
the worst thing is that they decided to nerf the aim 9M gosh
CW with rear aspect missiles is the best era in my eyes
Still waiting for Gripen
Im so lucky i dont have this problem, i mean i do have the other problem of not having any SL, skill, good planes, money, or anything else but hey its better than getting too many kills.
3:58 top tier summed up...
This whole ECCM IR missile meta made F-4s and F-14s completely useless since they rely on PD radars and everyone now knows how to deal with them.
At least gaijen is making strides to make the game better
not really, top tier is extremly chaotic, it is hard to find a good position to enter the furball
They need to reduce player count in each match
I’m just sick and tired of the Civil War Simulator. Every time I play each team has the same damn nation vehicle, if they could just prevent that from happening in the matchmaker I feel like top tier could be a bit more bearable.
Requires more top tier players in all nations so good luck
1:18 Danger Zone Flashbacks
So i just got the F-16A, And i have a few options to grind next. Overall, should i do the 16-C, 14-A, or the 16-ADF? I've heard the ADF turns better than all the three, and unfortunately the F-16A doesn't have 7M's which i was hoping for.
F-16 ADF turns worse than the 16-A, the f-16 a is the best turning jet in the game. Personally I would just go straight for the f16-c. The f14a isn't that fun to fly as since the engines are so hot you struggle to flare aim 9l's, let alone r73 and aim9m. The f16adf is just a worse f16-c in everything but turn performance.
@@KMark43 Ahh okay.. I see. The F-16A is not a whole lot of fun with just 9J's, ngl. Im grinding using the F-4J and it took me about a day to get the 16-A. I'll go straight for the 16-C and then go for the F-14 line. I want the F-14 line for this intercept thing me and my friends do in customs, but also mainly because the F-18 is most likely going to come on that line. I don't really play ground, so CAS isn't really my thing unless they make the ground targets in Air RB(which I think they should) more important. After all though, the 16-C is still an F-16 and it's job is TO turn, so I'm gonna have really good turning non the less once I drop some armament.
@@soundslikelr4104 I been using the f16a to grind and i mainly have fun on the biggere maps where I can force 1v1's. In 1v1's theres basically nothing your enemy can do. Its decent once you get the aim9l's. The f14 is a good plane still, just can be frustrating when trying to flare stuff.
@@KMark43 Yeah.. My experience with top tier though is that Heat seeking missiles are kind of becoming useless with the new sensors and stuff. You have to catch your enemy off guard to get a splash with one, unlike a AIM-7 where you have to either Chaff or notch, rather than making a slight turn when the missile gets close. I used the F-4S to grind and sidewinders were a bitch to use with it, but it might be different with 9L's.
Im not saying that "Oh, catching the enemy off guard is too much work" But it's much easier to get kills now by forcing gunfights because of how easily flarable the 9L and 9J are so it gets kind of to the point of why even bother.
@@soundslikelr4104 9L is much harder to flare than the 9J. If the enemy doesnt cut their afterburner it will hit 90% of the time even if they flare. At 12.3 everyone just hugs the ground anyways which defeats radar guided missiles as it makes them just dive into the ground. The radar missiles are still useful if you catch someone not hugging the ground but the new missiles are more effective overall IMO. And if youre grinding with the F4S anyways theres no point grinding with the f16A if you dont enjoy it, youll get the f16c much faster with the premium.
Advanced jets are advanced ): unless they make a guns only mode top tier will still be like this forever
Nice
Got it and play it in sim, it’s a hell lot of fun!
imagine having to use a point of iq at top tier
Ah yes, the AnthonyPit1 of WarThunder 😂 Love it!!!
I do think that the AIM-9M is better than the R-73, but the R27ET and ER are still better than their US counterparts.
They just need to slightly Nerf the AIM-9M in terms of side and front aspect shots. Then need to buff the flight model of the MiG-29SMT and fix the RWRs to be more accurate. Why Betty telling me I’m being launched on when it’s a jet across map launching on a friendly 20km+ acting like I got launched on lmao.
Otherwise I think it’s not too bad
and in ground rb cas is op in general but this jut is nasty
Yea top tier is just becaming boring with every single update
after aim120/r77 we'll need 6v6
all phantoms are just free kills for other jets at this br
There desperately needs to be more ways to play the game. Whether that means more modes, more objectives that are viable to earn points with, or whatever.
Wtf the F14 gonna do now?
you can say it is boring all you want. That is just how Air Combat has evolved over time. Just wait till Fox 3s get added. It "should" be another playstyle change when that gets introduced
Please send me one example of 32 jets from countries all over the world furballing with each other in a very small area. You can't. Why? Because it's not "just how air combat evolved over time".
The modern tech isn't the problem. The problem is that the ARB gamemode clearly doesn't accomodate for said tech.
what is irccm
shame most of the players im up against know how to flare the aim9m
Powercreep isnt the real issue, if gajin is going to continue adding new shit into WT it needs a mode tailor made around the new stuff
Please do the f-16D Barak Obama
idk i think the planes are fun more kills means less games i need to play to grind so more fun