After 9years of iRacing ive come to a point where i simply dont race anymore , if i do its only in a private league. The stress of public racing where you spend a week preparing for a race ,just to get wrecked by an idiot , is just too much for me.
I agree the top couple splits are just so effing competitive, so much time and energy that has to go into practicing even with purchasing setups I still have to tweak and dial in things. That’s a good thought that it does seem to turn more into and arcade, or a manipulation of the coding that runs the sim, to put down those alien times.
I’m in no danger of ever reaching the top level. I’m mid pack. What I strive for is to be front, mid pack. It’s realistic, considering my lack of time, and effort. Since getting proper gear, I’m ramping up the time, and effort.
Sim racing will never be a thing, the reason is fear does not play any role in games. People don't yield. They rather crash than give up a position. Meaning the intire field take extreme risk and it only pays of for a few. I did alot of karting when i was little, i drive my mx5 alot. So naturally i wanted to play iracing, after spending (yes €400,-) to get to the conclusion the game is not a sim, just a very expensive not fun driving game. Nothing more. Terrible drivers can win a race, great drivers (because they are thinking about others) lose.
That’s the main reason why most high IR racers end up also having a smurfy account with a low IR. It won’t fully solve every problem in the sim, but at least takes the pressure off a bit (specially when it comes to retaining licenses) and gives you access to other splits, so you can enjoy the racing a bit more.
Any source for the claim that "most" high iRacing racers have a smurfy account? just curious if your statements are in any way factual or based on any evidence, or if you're just "saying things on the internet".
You should just enjoy in the game man.I understand you completely tho.Time needed to do this at the top level over and over is just insane.Btw,I like Sai :D
Really enjoyed your story as I definitely feel the same pains. I'm nowhere near the level you're at, but it seems the design of iracing makes it a competitive sim at any level because you are constantly challenged with drivers at or higher than your skill as you progress up the irating ladder. I'm in it only for fun, and not really concerned about serious competition, but the natural competitive tendency we all have to focus in on that irating number seems to cause much frustration and anxiety for me everytime I hit the track. Yo-Yoing up and down the irating scale can cause such high and low emotions that it starts to take the fun out of it. I just find myself too often focusing on trying to win more than just having fun which is really unfortunate as I love the design and extensive MP community that iracing has.
I'm conflicted, this guy says that iracing became like an arcade at the top levels but the reigning F1 world champion max verstappen says it's the most realistic tool available and he believes it replicates real world racing perfectly for him... Racing inherently encourages this kind of behavior though and I believe the sim is just inadvertently simulating that too. Like, it could have been considered an arcade move for smokey yunick to get 5 extra gallons of fuel by using a 10 foot fuel hose wrapped around inside the car but he did it to get an edge. Racers are just doing this virtually now.
super different tho. setting up a car and changing the way you drive to be (in many cases) the opposite of how you drive in anything real becomes really tiresome really quick
It’s not that the game itself is an arcade, they’re saying the way setups can be used/modified is almost making it an arcade at the top levels because certain settings take away from the “sim” aspect, like making brakes more sensitive, steering forces turned down. I’ve heard other drivers make similar comparisons when they’ve taken part in more esports events. I think verstappen in general means that the game physics is the closest to real life which this video even addressed. The difference is verstappen is one of the best drivers in a car right now so I’m sure he can hold his own even with his realistic setup or I see him spending most of his time just putting in laps, not necessarily competing each week in his series races… maybe in the off season lol
Wow I started in 2011 and am about to conclude whats been a 4-year break, and I seem to recall a 'Beano' in one of the conmunities, I am guessing Overclockers Australia but the names are all a bit fuzzy ita been so long, and at age 46 my eyes are getting fuzzy anyway lol. Not fuzzy from too much Simracing, no those 7000 road starts had nothing to do with it im sure. Beano the Queenslander? "Be back before Indy", as Ive said since 2018 but I probably will this time. Gday from Australia's winningest iRacer!
Can you give me a tip about f1 and lmp1 tyre model? I am still not able to make the car grip to the road, i am 2 sec away from the top times. Thank you
I'll definitely keep this in check when I start sim racing. The joy of racing is what we should aim for, and not turning a hobby into a job, or get burned out. Strive to make faster laps, but don't overwork, take your time off, do some real racing in between, open up to fellow racers. Self notes for sure, but hey. :)
If you are not in this for iRating you can run fixed setup races which takes out a lot of the extra work on setups. I don't think I'll ever have to worry about this though as I am in the lower splits, and I'll never have "an engineer to work with". Even as a hobby I can relate to the grind aspect though I suspect that would be there whether I was racing in real life or in the sim. As a real life hobby racer I can say I have learned a ton about how to drive a car with iRacing. I can appreciate the effort guys most go through to get to the top, and I hope they like it since I know that level you described would not be fun for me either.
@@hawkgeoff Um, I was quoting this funny thing the presenter said. Hence, the quotation marks, which you may have noticed. See, it's absurd to say that something is "more realistic than reality", and absurdities are often humorous. And so, putting two and two together, I pointed out the humorous absurdity of making that statement. It was all good fun until you came along, Captain Buzzkill.
@@hawkgeoff No problem. I suspect you're right about CoD, but the SEALs are hopefully too busy smashing clams on rocks to have noticed the insult. You don't want to mess with an angry, hungry SEAL. No sense of humor, whatsoever.
What's frustrating, which I just experienced, people that get loose on the final laps, stay on the gas to try and not lose track position when they swerve and crash into the pack of cars. It's extremely frustrating because this ALWAYS happens and so hard to improve my irating.
Well put... Ive been feeling like you. I've spent 6000 just this year and still want another 4000 in other hardware but the more time and money the less fun it gets
You know you could buy a Legends car and actually race for real for that money? It will be shocking how the only thing at all similar is the visual, but at the end of the day sim racing is just a video game.
@Balthazar FX dude, you don't know what you are talking about. Been there done it. Look up Legends cars. It's OK... I'm sure the video games are fun too...lol
@@1406Alexx "new"... used you can buy a competitve car for 6 to 8, with spares. One set of tires runs multiple races, like 10+ depending on the track. Pads last an entire season. I ran a Legends car for a number of years... and on a budget. And yes, I had my share of race wins. Would more money have helped? It always does, but they are MUCH more about driver ability than most series.
I agree, once you get to about 2000 you are always in the top splits then for every race, and most people in those splits are ahole drivers that know they can get away with dodgy stuff like diving up the inside and punting you off and never get a ban, and they don't seem to care about safety rating at all. So you get races that are filled with egotistical dangerous drivers that will do anything just for some more irating points. In every GT3 and GT4 race in the top splits more than half the field has over 8 incident points every single race now it's just not fun.
I connected with this video. I am at a point where we crashed and ran broke on my M3. Its about rebuilt for Historic racing and I decided to get iracing during covid onset (like many others) to pass my time and to brush up on track skills and learn new tracks. Yes I have found its very competitive and I often wondered how close/far that was from real life. The sensitivity to time on things like brake zones and pressures is so small, my M3 was never like that and it was easier to run consistent times. I did also start wondering, as the year went by, if I was focusing more on changing setups/driving style to be good at this GAME, rather than keeping racing skill(aka track awareness). IN 2021 they added GT3 cars to AI and what I started doing was running fixed setups races with AI and adjusting them to so they are split between slower and faster skills so I re create a competitive field with ebb and flow. That is more rewarding for now. I did also feel that the time on setup practice was just crushed when you get clocked on opening laps. And some tracks are just setup for a Lap 1 pile up. I often started last or in pits on those. I started in May 2020 and got to A license by Jan 2021 (I am an adult with a career and own a small business so time is hard to find). I may just run the AI for a while and slowly see if I can match the fastest AI. No penalties there-no one to hurt (wrt iracing rank) . Another thing I do is host fixed setup races so I can focus on racecraft and not who bought best setup. I hope to get back ton track but yes I have found it useful to get used to the flow of a new track
I agree about your point about iRacing being turned into an "Arcade game." iRacing presently is more of a "Pay 2 Play" SIM and not much of a platform to test your "hand-eye coordination" as you would out in the real world racing... On top of this, the setup/tire model itself on iRacing is so out of touch compared to real-life (I've raced karts both on the oval/road courses and out at my local short-track in a short-track car). The only good thing I found to be the most fun is the yearly endurance races at Daytona & Le Mans.
Another example of min/maxing in the long history of competitive video games. Talent and work takes you to a level where small advantages from cheese make all the difference.
hmmm, I was in race sim radicals. probably know more about that team than most. Awesome bunch of guys. Very driven. I'm thinking you came in just as I departed. I quit RSR back in 2016 I think, team had a big change of management back then. Great little story and it's an interesting reversal of the approach a lot of sim racers have, which is the hope to end up with a real drive.... yours seemed to go the other way. I also found at the highest levels, you're not racing the sim in a realistic way, which ultimately detracts from the simulation experience. I think you just have to find where you are comfortable racing and try and improve from there. Getting caught in the SR and IR trap is great way to not enjoy iracing.
Actually i noticed that from very high IR drivers even in the MX-5, they were much faster than me (i used to be 2.5K IR which for all of the MX5 championships translates to top split) and when i go watch their onboard to see what they are doing differently, i notice they do things to the car that just doesn't feel natural and tbh I could never replicate that style of driving. An example I can give is in the last turn of Tsukuba, instalocking the rear axle by downshifting and making the car drift inwards without losing speed. Not even in rally cars, heck not even in drift cars one would be doing that on purpose but in this way they can gain 0.3s from that turn alone which is insane.It's like a physics exploit or maybe it would be actually faster in real life, provided you would not ruin the gearbox on every turn.. makes you really question reality
@@christoforospaphitis4090 don’t take offense to this but the mx5 handles exactly like it does in real life. I have a 1:03.4 on that track and regularly win top split. I don’t overdrive the car or do anything fancy, I just drive it like I would my real mx5 cup. Just get better.
@@christoforospaphitis4090 I also don’t do that downshift thing, I downshift much earlier and hook my wheel onto the curb so that I can gas more. You have to balance the car because you’re on the absolute limit of traction out of the last corner.
@@lun7n No offence taken I used to be in the top split round about 2.3K IR back then (i dropped due to many retirements and concentrating in other series which are new to me but starting to get the hang of it slowly slowly) winning regularly there Tsukuba is no exception. What I am talking about is the odd encounter with 7K IR and the way they drive which feels unnatural.
I understand you a lot, 3 years ago i reached around 5k irating which is not that high, but i was with a team working on the setup half week and racing at weekend. I was happy to be in the same second as 7k irating guys and was able to compete and follow. But i just return few days ago and today i don't feel the same, i went back alone, i suck at setting up cars and i lost my practice lvl i had and finally not enjoying it as much as before. I wanted to go as high as I could before and reached those 4.7k in six month sooner when now i'm just scared ( which can be ridiculous) to lose those hard points caus e i'm not competitive as before and I don't want to tryhard anymore. So i just made a break again and went on acc for more fun. Being in top split or wreck by low ir guys who grinds all day without practicing tracks and stuff cornerbombing etc doesnt enjoy me anymore. I found less quality races today.
So basically, you relied on other people instead of actually putting in the effort to learn your craft, and now those people are gone, but instead of blaming it on yourself, you blame it on the sim?
The sim and its silly no fault stewarding makes what he described possible. IRacing is now a nanny state where everything is protected behind the facade of clean racing that’s really just “driving”. Even a one wheel off is suddenly a huge concern. Get bumpdrafted and suddenly you’ll have to race for 20 minutes clean to erase a situation someone else put you into because they happen to have spare SR from driving granny laps in Miata’s from the pit lane. At least in ACC you can get solid races and nobody sweats if you’re pushing the limit and being respectful about it. I don’t mind a little rub here and there if you’re not a dive bomber. Mx5 cup at Daytona this year would have 5000 incidents handed out with all the 4 wide bump drafting in every heat
Im not sure if you are done with sim racing for good, but i highly recommend trying assetto corsa competezione. Online aspect is not as good as iracing but it has best physics on the market, it also has competition servers which is also nice, also it has lots of leagues, like actrolvision, simgrid, racing club international and loads of others.
U know it. You havent lived until youve won a fixed setup truck race. Im a road racer but can appreciate a good wreck fest so i roll that dice on oval and road. I had 5k irating but trying to maintain that by racing a single series and practising more tham racing, is not for me. Ok some low split drivers are bad, but so too are some top split flips.
Football came naturally to me that was my gift. Racing on the other hand dont come naturally at all ill be very suprised if i ever reach the top of Iracing because im never the quickest on track days with the rl race karts. In all honesty im happy mid order just having a close battle with a few guys so ill likely never have this issue 🤣
I spent 100 dollars on iRacing and I’m having fun with what I have but I want a refund on something’s that I bought is there a way to restore a purchase if so can you do a video on how
this is what i found in a game like league of legends. once you reached a certain level of skill the games arent enjoyable anymore. because you always have to be at 100% to even stand a chance.
That is definitely something I don't like about iRacing. At a certain point, it becomes less about simulating actual racing..and more about "gaming" or exploiting the system to get an advantage. The MOST fun I've EVER HAD in iRacing was back when I was brand new with a terrible iRating racing in the lowest splits. I knew nothing about the sim. The other people I was racing against knew nothing about the sim. We were all blissfully ignorant and it was awesome.
if you're playin wrc8, i'd HIGHLY recommend richard burns rally w/ ngp6. you can do it thru rbrpro (controversial because mod stealing drama but easier setup imo) or simfanshu (which is becoming better and better over time.) at least a few wrc drivers use it to test setups, and even if it graphically is shit there objectively isn't a sim out there that simulates more than rbr (even rf2 doesn't.) there's online tourneys etc and a LOT of ppl who actively compete rally irl at diff levels. ...sadly i think it's pretty much confirmed that no one is interested in making a lvl of sim like that anymore, but at least rbr has so much fucking content and more keeps coming month after month.
Its a horrible system. Ive never been penslized for someone else's screw ups so much in my life. Someone can not brake run straight into me and take me out and I get penalized.... Thats not realistic. Im sick of racing clean fir 40 laps then be taken out for a top 5 spot or take out by a lap car and my rating goes down.
exploits are at the top of every online competition, from the sports titles, to fps, and racing, which completely erodes realism and fun factor. i completely agree. which is why i purposely throttle the series’ i enter. fixed setup series is a mandatory, to avoid exploits. so is the competition barometer, in a rookie series like the mx5 cup, or new formula vee. highly recommend giving them a go
Most of it is due to the unrealistic tire model, you can do things to the car geometrically and get away with because you can’t cord the tires like you would in real life
Thanks for the video. I just had my first (short) season in the SCCA and really loved it. iRacing frustrates me. I prefer racing with bots to humans as bots drive more like real people (until you reach the higher levels).
Ive said this as well. Unfortunately you cannot drive like it is a real car. If you do, you will lose out because the other people arwnt treating it as a real car. Finding leagues help mitigate this.
That's crazy buddy - the reason for it being crazy is I've known hard core MMO players (I know, but still a computer game) and where your saying Iracing, just say MMO and basically the reasonings are the same. Ok, so instead of setups it's skills and items - but the time they had to sink into it, the constant adjusting due to game updates, bug fixes, class changes and the like they'd have to constantly change the gear, rotations and the like... The end result though remains the same which, summed up simply, it became a job. No more fun, hours trying to see if they could get a few more hits of damage and so on. They did, however, manage to step down to lower guilds (so clubs for you) but they said the sheer lack of skill and dedication of the players left them frustrated and basically loosing their cools. I guess if you dedicate yourself to any computer game you'll eventually end up here. Crazy. All the very best for the future buddy, and welcome to Britain!
You likely won’t do this but an idea would be just to make a new account. Go from rookie class back up to a license and maybe don’t take it as serious anymore. I’ve heard of a 10k+ iracing driver that made a new account and said it was a huge improvement in the fun he had.
It’s not just Americans that call it soccer. US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, some Irish. A large majority of the English speaking world calls it soccer.
2022S4 - I have stopped racing years ago even though I still have an active membership. I've started just doing time trials, since I'm a low division driver (Division 9), I got tired of being hit from behind by the leaders who tell me to hold my line in a corner (road racing) and then hit me when I am following the racing line. Then tell me to get the h**l out of the way and hit me just to blame me for ruining their race. I have just gone backwards in my ratings to the point I don't want to race online but only through the AI. I can setup a racing with the AI being strong enough to make me work for wins or even making the podium. I'm tired of time trials since I have seen SOOO much cheating by high level drivers. They race in Division 1 or 2 but do time trials in division 8 or 9 and score 100 points a week, which means someone who is in a low division wins the overall title for the season but also a division where slow drivers have no chance now to score a certificate.
In my view this can all be solved by things like invisible iRating, capped practice time per week per series, mandatory repair time before you can go back out on track again, limited repairs, clamp car setup values to sensible ranges etc. They should try it for hosted racing and then if people like it consider making a public series.
@@jbh5992 What happens? 30 more dollars. Gotta keep up with the Joneses. or, learn to setup the car yourself. To clarify, I love iRacing, but I don't EVER buy setups, I'm an 1800 iR driver, which is just slightly above average.
Safety rating is a half decent idea, but most of my 4x's come from being rammed from behind, because people can't adjust to braking zones when there's a car in front of em it would seem
If you're into GT3 cars, there's a sim called Assetto Corsa Competizione that's a bit more realistic in terms of physics as it hyperfocuses on GT cars and from my experience and my friends who compete at or near the top level, it's nowhere near the same level of rediculous setup magic that has to go into being fast
Too bad. You should get back into the real thing. You could do it if you really put yourself out there and put your nose to the grind. I quit most of my Iracing because it cost's way too much money for a sim game. That's my opinion anyway. I agree with you on all the setup nonsense.........and I refuse to buy them anymore. Such a wast of money.
Just finding this video now, but I've been saying similar things about both iRacing and sim racing eSports as a whole for years. Once you get into or near the top echelon of competition, you quickly learn that 1) people are intentionally breaking the game and running completely bizarre setups to the point where the game really isn't living up to it's label of a simulator anymore, and 2) there is an unhealthy level of obsession with these games that requires near OCD levels of practice and setup development if you want to keep up. I remember a quote from an older guy on the forums saying "people spend more time testing on iRacing for a league race than I did on my championship winning short track cars in the 80's." I think that says a lot. Even real-world racers, who are notorious for spending long hours in their garages constantly tuning and tinkering, can't keep up with the obsession displayed by some sim racers. It's resulted in something very similar to Madden NFL eSports, in that it's more fun to play these games as an amateur who doesn't know what he's doing, than to actually sit down and get good at the games. If you actually put in the effort to get good at racing sims, your "reward" is discovering how busted the physics are and how obsessive your fellow competitors are.
Proposed solution: limit the practice time. iRacing is in a unique position to implement this as they require an internet connection for all sessions, otherwise people would just autism offline. Plus limit the number of wrecks to 2-3 cars per week, and limit the range of setup adjustment. Problem solved but nOoOo we cant have that cause its ToO hArDcOrE. So put it in its own optional series problem solved thanks for reading and mind you dont stumble on the way out
Anatoly Yakubov I think rFactor in some ways is more realistic e.g the tyre model Aside from that rfactor 2 offers more street circuits and tracks that Iracing can’t get a chance to scan
I think iRacing needs people like you with your level of expertise to explain why at the top level it is unrealistic. What was it about the cars advanced setups that made it become arcadey? Most likely most of the people in iRacing don't have your level of expertise or experience so you are what they need to improve the game. Hopefully they would be interested in your feedback.
Good question, I'd be curious to hear comments on this also. At the highest competition levels in iracing I imagine the physics model is being pushed to its limit and the inconsistencies/unrealistic behaviors are revealed. I think this is where the term "setup hacks" comes into play to exploit those gaps
the online experience in iRacing is really good, second to none. the physics though, eh, iceRacing is a meme for a reason. AC is much more natural in that aspect imo.
Well no shit it would feel arcade, it’s by far the most realistic sim that simulates a certain car(s) ( Gt3 and Gt4 ) and you’ll be surprised to know how easy driving even a race car is in real life. Iracing is by far the hardest sim but hardness does not mean more realistic.
Unfortunatly this is the same for all online "e-sports" or games. It's a shame this has infected Iracing as well. Wether its COD/BF/World of Warcraft, any MOBA or RTS..... the TOP players who make their living from it will treat it as an elite job, spend 90+hours a week on studying the game, engine and in this case sim. Test its limits and find ways to break them that others cant. The fans (others playing that game/sim) see their scores/times and want to emulate them. And then the idiocy go's downstream into the lower ranks. This leads to the arcady setups that make no sense IRL, but it just completely breaks the sim in some aspects as no real car would ever be run like that, so the sim doesn't know how to process the info properly anymore. It ignores every SIM aspect of sim-racing and just makes it a game where you bend the rules of the game to win. To be fair though, i'm pretty sure IRL this also happens. Top raceteams in TOP classes will find ways around the rulebook where they can (cheat on fuel, flexi-wings, cheat on sensors, cheat on tire pressure etc). So perhaps,its a perfect copy of the real world.... and 100% a correct replication in our sims :D
Most of the time sim racing at the higher level is basically exploiting the sim you happen to be using. iRacing is one of the worst in this regard (not that exploits of that magnitude don't require skill, because it's a whole new skill on it's own), but it's not just them.
![Skilla Baby - Misfits (Feat. Polo G) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IjsylSnNMyw/mqdefault.jpg)
"Forces people to drive sensibly"
90% of iracers: HOLD MY SR
Interesting view on the higher splits that I think quite a few people that I know around 6k and up would probably share. Good luck on your studies!
Share?
Nope. Nobody does no matter what level they are in.
Loved hearing your story mate and all the best to you going forward!
After 9years of iRacing ive come to a point where i simply dont race anymore , if i do its only in a private league.
The stress of public racing where you spend a week preparing for a race ,just to get wrecked by an idiot , is just too much for me.
I agree the top couple splits are just so effing competitive, so much time and energy that has to go into practicing even with purchasing setups I still have to tweak and dial in things. That’s a good thought that it does seem to turn more into and arcade, or a manipulation of the coding that runs the sim, to put down those alien times.
I’m in no danger of ever reaching the top level. I’m mid pack. What I strive for is to be front, mid pack. It’s realistic, considering my lack of time, and effort. Since getting proper gear, I’m ramping up the time, and effort.
Great story also very well all-heartedly told. TY ! Wish you best!
I honestly just clicked on this video because I was confused why it was about iRacing but had the Reading FC crest in the thumbnail.
Sim racing will never be a thing, the reason is fear does not play any role in games. People don't yield. They rather crash than give up a position.
Meaning the intire field take extreme risk and it only pays of for a few. I did alot of karting when i was little, i drive my mx5 alot. So naturally i wanted to play iracing, after spending (yes €400,-) to get to the conclusion the game is not a sim, just a very expensive not fun driving game. Nothing more. Terrible drivers can win a race, great drivers (because they are thinking about others) lose.
That’s the main reason why most high IR racers end up also having a smurfy account with a low IR. It won’t fully solve every problem in the sim, but at least takes the pressure off a bit (specially when it comes to retaining licenses) and gives you access to other splits, so you can enjoy the racing a bit more.
Any source for the claim that "most" high iRacing racers have a smurfy account?
just curious if your statements are in any way factual or based on any evidence, or if you're just "saying things on the internet".
@@davecarsley8773 just check the top irating players in the world (Benecke, Ariel etc) and you will see yourself how many accounts they have brother
Online competitiveness is on another level :) Many Olympians won't last long :) All the best!
You should just enjoy in the game man.I understand you completely tho.Time needed to do this at the top level over and over is just insane.Btw,I like Sai :D
this video is beautiful. Great story. Wonderful content
Really enjoyed your story as I definitely feel the same pains. I'm nowhere near the level you're at, but it seems the design of iracing makes it a competitive sim at any level because you are constantly challenged with drivers at or higher than your skill as you progress up the irating ladder. I'm in it only for fun, and not really concerned about serious competition, but the natural competitive tendency we all have to focus in on that irating number seems to cause much frustration and anxiety for me everytime I hit the track. Yo-Yoing up and down the irating scale can cause such high and low emotions that it starts to take the fun out of it. I just find myself too often focusing on trying to win more than just having fun which is really unfortunate as I love the design and extensive MP community that iracing has.
Thanks for sharing your experiences! great video!! All the best at uni!
Thanks Taylor!
I'm conflicted, this guy says that iracing became like an arcade at the top levels but the reigning F1 world champion max verstappen says it's the most realistic tool available and he believes it replicates real world racing perfectly for him... Racing inherently encourages this kind of behavior though and I believe the sim is just inadvertently simulating that too. Like, it could have been considered an arcade move for smokey yunick to get 5 extra gallons of fuel by using a 10 foot fuel hose wrapped around inside the car but he did it to get an edge. Racers are just doing this virtually now.
super different tho. setting up a car and changing the way you drive to be (in many cases) the opposite of how you drive in anything real becomes really tiresome really quick
It’s not that the game itself is an arcade, they’re saying the way setups can be used/modified is almost making it an arcade at the top levels because certain settings take away from the “sim” aspect, like making brakes more sensitive, steering forces turned down. I’ve heard other drivers make similar comparisons when they’ve taken part in more esports events.
I think verstappen in general means that the game physics is the closest to real life which this video even addressed. The difference is verstappen is one of the best drivers in a car right now so I’m sure he can hold his own even with his realistic setup or I see him spending most of his time just putting in laps, not necessarily competing each week in his series races… maybe in the off season lol
Thank you JBH - many feel like you and not only at your level, even amateurs. Good luck!
I just got back on after a 3 year break, Been a member since 2010, stopped in 2017 and just got back on, and I understand 100% on why you quit.
Wow I started in 2011 and am about to conclude whats been a 4-year break, and I seem to recall a 'Beano' in one of the conmunities, I am guessing Overclockers Australia but the names are all a bit fuzzy ita been so long, and at age 46 my eyes are getting fuzzy anyway lol. Not fuzzy from too much Simracing, no those 7000 road starts had nothing to do with it im sure. Beano the Queenslander? "Be back before Indy", as Ive said since 2018 but I probably will this time. Gday from Australia's winningest iRacer!
Your a cool knowledgeable guy keep working and you'll make something out of yourself. Nice video
Man you explaine exactly wat I feels in iracing not at your level but league racing
Can you give me a tip about f1 and lmp1 tyre model? I am still not able to make the car grip to the road, i am 2 sec away from the top times. Thank you
I'll definitely keep this in check when I start sim racing. The joy of racing is what we should aim for, and not turning a hobby into a job, or get burned out. Strive to make faster laps, but don't overwork, take your time off, do some real racing in between, open up to fellow racers. Self notes for sure, but hey. :)
If you are not in this for iRating you can run fixed setup races which takes out a lot of the extra work on setups. I don't think I'll ever have to worry about this though as I am in the lower splits, and I'll never have "an engineer to work with". Even as a hobby I can relate to the grind aspect though I suspect that would be there whether I was racing in real life or in the sim. As a real life hobby racer I can say I have learned a ton about how to drive a car with iRacing. I can appreciate the effort guys most go through to get to the top, and I hope they like it since I know that level you described would not be fun for me either.
"It's probably more realistic than reality". I love it.
haha... you keep telling yourself that. It's about as similar as call of duty is to being a SEAL
@@hawkgeoff
Um, I was quoting this funny thing the presenter said. Hence, the quotation marks, which you may have noticed. See, it's absurd to say that something is "more realistic than reality", and absurdities are often humorous. And so, putting two and two together, I pointed out the humorous absurdity of making that statement. It was all good fun until you came along, Captain Buzzkill.
@@michaellorenson2997 oh crap, sorry bro, completely my bad. I need to get back to my reading comprehension lessons..again, my bad.
@@hawkgeoff
No problem. I suspect you're right about CoD, but the SEALs are hopefully too busy smashing clams on rocks to have noticed the insult. You don't want to mess with an angry, hungry SEAL. No sense of humor, whatsoever.
Hope you are doing well!
What's frustrating, which I just experienced, people that get loose on the final laps, stay on the gas to try and not lose track position when they swerve and crash into the pack of cars. It's extremely frustrating because this ALWAYS happens and so hard to improve my irating.
JBH: iracing has the most realistic competition
Sub-2k IR races: hold my beer
Well put... Ive been feeling like you. I've spent 6000 just this year and still want another 4000 in other hardware but the more time and money the less fun it gets
You know you could buy a Legends car and actually race for real for that money? It will be shocking how the only thing at all similar is the visual, but at the end of the day sim racing is just a video game.
@Balthazar FX dude, you don't know what you are talking about. Been there done it. Look up Legends cars. It's OK... I'm sure the video games are fun too...lol
@@hawkgeoff legends car costs about 12k new, no new tires, uninsured, not payed for using the track etc
@@1406Alexx "new"... used you can buy a competitve car for 6 to 8, with spares. One set of tires runs multiple races, like 10+ depending on the track. Pads last an entire season. I ran a Legends car for a number of years... and on a budget. And yes, I had my share of race wins. Would more money have helped? It always does, but they are MUCH more about driver ability than most series.
Plus fuel for the car, trailer to transport the car, truck to pull the trailer, fuel for the truck etc etc
I agree, once you get to about 2000 you are always in the top splits then for every race, and most people in those splits are ahole drivers that know they can get away with dodgy stuff like diving up the inside and punting you off and never get a ban, and they don't seem to care about safety rating at all. So you get races that are filled with egotistical dangerous drivers that will do anything just for some more irating points. In every GT3 and GT4 race in the top splits more than half the field has over 8 incident points every single race now it's just not fun.
True
The way you said Soccer was hilarious
I connected with this video. I am at a point where we crashed and ran broke on my M3. Its about rebuilt for Historic racing and I decided to get iracing during covid onset (like many others) to pass my time and to brush up on track skills and learn new tracks. Yes I have found its very competitive and I often wondered how close/far that was from real life. The sensitivity to time on things like brake zones and pressures is so small, my M3 was never like that and it was easier to run consistent times. I did also start wondering, as the year went by, if I was focusing more on changing setups/driving style to be good at this GAME, rather than keeping racing skill(aka track awareness). IN 2021 they added GT3 cars to AI and what I started doing was running fixed setups races with AI and adjusting them to so they are split between slower and faster skills so I re create a competitive field with ebb and flow. That is more rewarding for now. I did also feel that the time on setup practice was just crushed when you get clocked on opening laps. And some tracks are just setup for a Lap 1 pile up. I often started last or in pits on those. I started in May 2020 and got to A license by Jan 2021 (I am an adult with a career and own a small business so time is hard to find). I may just run the AI for a while and slowly see if I can match the fastest AI. No penalties there-no one to hurt (wrt iracing rank) . Another thing I do is host fixed setup races so I can focus on racecraft and not who bought best setup. I hope to get back ton track but yes I have found it useful to get used to the flow of a new track
Good information. At that level where you getting paid to race?
I agree about your point about iRacing being turned into an "Arcade game." iRacing presently is more of a "Pay 2 Play" SIM and not much of a platform to test your "hand-eye coordination" as you would out in the real world racing...
On top of this, the setup/tire model itself on iRacing is so out of touch compared to real-life (I've raced karts both on the oval/road courses and out at my local short-track in a short-track car). The only good thing I found to be the most fun is the yearly endurance races at Daytona & Le Mans.
Another example of min/maxing in the long history of competitive video games. Talent and work takes you to a level where small advantages from cheese make all the difference.
How did you get into racing?
Its so hard to break out of the 2k+ ir
Yeah, the physics loopholes are annoying.
hmmm, I was in race sim radicals. probably know more about that team than most. Awesome bunch of guys. Very driven. I'm thinking you came in just as I departed. I quit RSR back in 2016 I think, team had a big change of management back then. Great little story and it's an interesting reversal of the approach a lot of sim racers have, which is the hope to end up with a real drive.... yours seemed to go the other way. I also found at the highest levels, you're not racing the sim in a realistic way, which ultimately detracts from the simulation experience. I think you just have to find where you are comfortable racing and try and improve from there. Getting caught in the SR and IR trap is great way to not enjoy iracing.
Actually i noticed that from very high IR drivers even in the MX-5, they were much faster than me (i used to be 2.5K IR which for all of the MX5 championships translates to top split) and when i go watch their onboard to see what they are doing differently, i notice they do things to the car that just doesn't feel natural and tbh I could never replicate that style of driving. An example I can give is in the last turn of Tsukuba, instalocking the rear axle by downshifting and making the car drift inwards without losing speed. Not even in rally cars, heck not even in drift cars one would be doing that on purpose but in this way they can gain 0.3s from that turn alone which is insane.It's like a physics exploit or maybe it would be actually faster in real life, provided you would not ruin the gearbox on every turn.. makes you really question reality
@@christoforospaphitis4090 don’t take offense to this but the mx5 handles exactly like it does in real life. I have a 1:03.4 on that track and regularly win top split. I don’t overdrive the car or do anything fancy, I just drive it like I would my real mx5 cup. Just get better.
@@christoforospaphitis4090 I also don’t do that downshift thing, I downshift much earlier and hook my wheel onto the curb so that I can gas more. You have to balance the car because you’re on the absolute limit of traction out of the last corner.
@@lun7n No offence taken I used to be in the top split round about 2.3K IR back then (i dropped due to many retirements and concentrating in other series which are new to me but starting to get the hang of it slowly slowly) winning regularly there Tsukuba is no exception. What I am talking about is the odd encounter with 7K IR and the way they drive which feels unnatural.
I understand you a lot, 3 years ago i reached around 5k irating which is not that high, but i was with a team working on the setup half week and racing at weekend. I was happy to be in the same second as 7k irating guys and was able to compete and follow. But i just return few days ago and today i don't feel the same, i went back alone, i suck at setting up cars and i lost my practice lvl i had and finally not enjoying it as much as before. I wanted to go as high as I could before and reached those 4.7k in six month sooner when now i'm just scared ( which can be ridiculous) to lose those hard points caus e i'm not competitive as before and I don't want to tryhard anymore. So i just made a break again and went on acc for more fun. Being in top split or wreck by low ir guys who grinds all day without practicing tracks and stuff cornerbombing etc doesnt enjoy me anymore. I found less quality races today.
So basically, you relied on other people instead of actually putting in the effort to learn your craft, and now those people are gone, but instead of blaming it on yourself, you blame it on the sim?
The sim and its silly no fault stewarding makes what he described possible. IRacing is now a nanny state where everything is protected behind the facade of clean racing that’s really just “driving”. Even a one wheel off is suddenly a huge concern. Get bumpdrafted and suddenly you’ll have to race for 20 minutes clean to erase a situation someone else put you into because they happen to have spare SR from driving granny laps in Miata’s from the pit lane.
At least in ACC you can get solid races and nobody sweats if you’re pushing the limit and being respectful about it. I don’t mind a little rub here and there if you’re not a dive bomber. Mx5 cup at Daytona this year would have 5000 incidents handed out with all the 4 wide bump drafting in every heat
Oh wow, I'd love to hear more about your coaching path.
Im not sure if you are done with sim racing for good, but i highly recommend trying assetto corsa competezione. Online aspect is not as good as iracing but it has best physics on the market, it also has competition servers which is also nice, also it has lots of leagues, like actrolvision, simgrid, racing club international and loads of others.
ACC input lag is huge, AC foreva
What’s with the reading fc logo in the thumbnail?
Any simulator becomes that on the top tier. Personally I prefer to have fun with Sims and keep in the mid tier of players.
Gran turismo sport mode is the best for just jumping into races and not having to worry about setups
Would love to do it and try it but I’m…yeah that whole money thing is a bit of a pain.
This is why I just roll the dice and jump in fixed setup leagues with 5 minutes of practice lmao
U know it. You havent lived until youve won a fixed setup truck race. Im a road racer but can appreciate a good wreck fest so i roll that dice on oval and road. I had 5k irating but trying to maintain that by racing a single series and practising more tham racing, is not for me. Ok some low split drivers are bad, but so too are some top split flips.
Lol did you sell your I racing setup?
Being one of the best in the world at anything isn’t “fun”. It’s a curse that most people strive for.
doesnt hurt to take a brake :P u don't wanna "burn out" :D
Sorry let me me be more specific. Where you getting paid to race in iracing?
What are the difference you needed to make to your driving style between iracing and real racing?
The only comparison is the visual experience. Your ass learns nothing sitting behind a computer screen. You also don't see God on a video game.
Football came naturally to me that was my gift. Racing on the other hand dont come naturally at all ill be very suprised if i ever reach the top of Iracing because im never the quickest on track days with the rl race karts. In all honesty im happy mid order just having a close battle with a few guys so ill likely never have this issue 🤣
we are doing aussie touring car championships on ac its a lot of fun
I spent 100 dollars on iRacing and I’m having fun with what I have but I want a refund on something’s that I bought is there a way to restore a purchase if so can you do a video on how
It's called tough luck
this is what i found in a game like league of legends. once you reached a certain level of skill the games arent enjoyable anymore. because you always have to be at 100% to even stand a chance.
So would you say that fixed-setup alleviates a lot of this 'arcade' style gaming the game?
Only from a setup perspective, unfortunately the fixed setups require you to drive the car in a very unrealistic fashion to get the most out of it
That is definitely something I don't like about iRacing. At a certain point, it becomes less about simulating actual racing..and more about "gaming" or exploiting the system to get an advantage. The MOST fun I've EVER HAD in iRacing was back when I was brand new with a terrible iRating racing in the lowest splits. I knew nothing about the sim. The other people I was racing against knew nothing about the sim. We were all blissfully ignorant and it was awesome.
Exactly! Same here!
if you're playin wrc8, i'd HIGHLY recommend richard burns rally w/ ngp6. you can do it thru rbrpro (controversial because mod stealing drama but easier setup imo) or simfanshu (which is becoming better and better over time.) at least a few wrc drivers use it to test setups, and even if it graphically is shit there objectively isn't a sim out there that simulates more than rbr (even rf2 doesn't.) there's online tourneys etc and a LOT of ppl who actively compete rally irl at diff levels.
...sadly i think it's pretty much confirmed that no one is interested in making a lvl of sim like that anymore, but at least rbr has so much fucking content and more keeps coming month after month.
Its a horrible system. Ive never been penslized for someone else's screw ups so much in my life. Someone can not brake run straight into me and take me out and I get penalized.... Thats not realistic. Im sick of racing clean fir 40 laps then be taken out for a top 5 spot or take out by a lap car and my rating goes down.
Lowkey will only ever chase for casual leagues. I just wanna give some laps and fix up a decent setup and see how far you can go.
This is why I race fixed
Yesterdays updayte chages it all...
exploits are at the top of every online competition, from the sports titles, to fps, and racing, which completely erodes realism and fun factor.
i completely agree.
which is why i purposely throttle the series’ i enter. fixed setup series is a mandatory, to avoid exploits. so is the competition barometer, in a rookie series like the mx5 cup, or new formula vee. highly recommend giving them a go
Would have been good if u would have given examples of how high level iRacing driving & setups are arcady / not realistic.
Most of it is due to the unrealistic tire model, you can do things to the car geometrically and get away with because you can’t cord the tires like you would in real life
extreme camber angles, extreme brake bias, extreme rake angles, extreme tire pressures, that's how you set up your car in iracing to be fast.
@@aledmb But how does that then translate to driving style?
@@John-ok8ts driving style in iracing? yeah you just go with fear that the car is going to kill you any time. :D
Thanks for the video. I just had my first (short) season in the SCCA and really loved it. iRacing frustrates me. I prefer racing with bots to humans as bots drive more like real people (until you reach the higher levels).
In Iracing I think all of the cars have Vacuums on the rear bumper.. because the slipstream is much much to strong in Iracing..
I just try to race and have fun and be competitive
i noticed that with a lot of sims, F1 99-02 the set ups werent realistic they were just better for the VIDEO GAME sim, not realistic gameplay.
Ive said this as well. Unfortunately you cannot drive like it is a real car. If you do, you will lose out because the other people arwnt treating it as a real car. Finding leagues help mitigate this.
0:52 looks like Cresson Motorsport Ranch?
sure is!
The formula mazda capital of the world!
rFactor 2....
king
That's crazy buddy - the reason for it being crazy is I've known hard core MMO players (I know, but still a computer game) and where your saying Iracing, just say MMO and basically the reasonings are the same. Ok, so instead of setups it's skills and items - but the time they had to sink into it, the constant adjusting due to game updates, bug fixes, class changes and the like they'd have to constantly change the gear, rotations and the like... The end result though remains the same which, summed up simply, it became a job. No more fun, hours trying to see if they could get a few more hits of damage and so on. They did, however, manage to step down to lower guilds (so clubs for you) but they said the sheer lack of skill and dedication of the players left them frustrated and basically loosing their cools. I guess if you dedicate yourself to any computer game you'll eventually end up here. Crazy. All the very best for the future buddy, and welcome to Britain!
You likely won’t do this but an idea would be just to make a new account. Go from rookie class back up to a license and maybe don’t take it as serious anymore. I’ve heard of a 10k+ iracing driver that made a new account and said it was a huge improvement in the fun he had.
It’s not just Americans that call it soccer. US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, some Irish. A large majority of the English speaking world calls it soccer.
lol
the outlier in the comments
so, if i get your point, you quit because you realized how arcade it is?
Because of how arcade you need to make it to be fast/competitive
2022S4 - I have stopped racing years ago even though I still have an active membership. I've started just doing time trials, since I'm a low division driver (Division 9), I got tired of being hit from behind by the leaders who tell me to hold my line in a corner (road racing) and then hit me when I am following the racing line. Then tell me to get the h**l out of the way and hit me just to blame me for ruining their race. I have just gone backwards in my ratings to the point I don't want to race online but only through the AI. I can setup a racing with the AI being strong enough to make me work for wins or even making the podium. I'm tired of time trials since I have seen SOOO much cheating by high level drivers. They race in Division 1 or 2 but do time trials in division 8 or 9 and score 100 points a week, which means someone who is in a low division wins the overall title for the season but also a division where slow drivers have no chance now to score a certificate.
I just recently quit iRacing and I'm glad I did.
In my view this can all be solved by things like invisible iRating, capped practice time per week per series, mandatory repair time before you can go back out on track again, limited repairs, clamp car setup values to sensible ranges etc. They should try it for hosted racing and then if people like it consider making a public series.
I'll cap your practice time talking like that! Lol
That’s why everyone buys there setups from coach Dave which is super expensive think he charges 30usd per setup per track
That’s an absolute rip off 🤣what happens when there’s an update and the setup is obsolete?? 😂
@@jbh5992 What happens? 30 more dollars. Gotta keep up with the Joneses. or, learn to setup the car yourself.
To clarify, I love iRacing, but I don't EVER buy setups, I'm an 1800 iR driver, which is just slightly above average.
Safety rating is a half decent idea, but most of my 4x's come from being rammed from behind, because people can't adjust to braking zones when there's a car in front of em it would seem
If you're into GT3 cars, there's a sim called Assetto Corsa Competizione that's a bit more realistic in terms of physics as it hyperfocuses on GT cars and from my experience and my friends who compete at or near the top level, it's nowhere near the same level of rediculous setup magic that has to go into being fast
I agree with ur points, thats why i dont like iracing too much cause how arcade u need to be to be fast, i much prefer acc, it feels more real.
ACC is the most realistic sim out there right now agreed!
From what I've heard it still uses some wacky tire model though.basically it's a right angle triangle
Too bad. You should get back into the real thing. You could do it if you really put yourself out there and put your nose to the grind. I quit most of my Iracing because it cost's way too much money for a sim game. That's my opinion anyway. I agree with you on all the setup nonsense.........and I refuse to buy them anymore. Such a wast of money.
Because its userbase are a bunch of stalkers.
1000000% agree and feel the same on so many points
Just finding this video now, but I've been saying similar things about both iRacing and sim racing eSports as a whole for years. Once you get into or near the top echelon of competition, you quickly learn that 1) people are intentionally breaking the game and running completely bizarre setups to the point where the game really isn't living up to it's label of a simulator anymore, and 2) there is an unhealthy level of obsession with these games that requires near OCD levels of practice and setup development if you want to keep up.
I remember a quote from an older guy on the forums saying "people spend more time testing on iRacing for a league race than I did on my championship winning short track cars in the 80's." I think that says a lot. Even real-world racers, who are notorious for spending long hours in their garages constantly tuning and tinkering, can't keep up with the obsession displayed by some sim racers.
It's resulted in something very similar to Madden NFL eSports, in that it's more fun to play these games as an amateur who doesn't know what he's doing, than to actually sit down and get good at the games. If you actually put in the effort to get good at racing sims, your "reward" is discovering how busted the physics are and how obsessive your fellow competitors are.
Proposed solution: limit the practice time. iRacing is in a unique position to implement this as they require an internet connection for all sessions, otherwise people would just autism offline. Plus limit the number of wrecks to 2-3 cars per week, and limit the range of setup adjustment. Problem solved but nOoOo we cant have that cause its ToO hArDcOrE. So put it in its own optional series problem solved thanks for reading and mind you dont stumble on the way out
Have you tried ACC?
Sc0nes yes I’m playing it right now 😂
@@jbh5992 why pro drivers and ex-racers prefer rFactor2 (while iRacing offers so much more, especially for US based racers)?
Anatoly Yakubov I think rFactor in some ways is more realistic e.g the tyre model
Aside from that rfactor 2 offers more street circuits and tracks that Iracing can’t get a chance to scan
@@jbh5992 what do you think of it?
3:54 "is actually more realistic than it is in real life" and that's how you know when the game is dope.
I think iRacing needs people like you with your level of expertise to explain why at the top level it is unrealistic. What was it about the cars advanced setups that made it become arcadey? Most likely most of the people in iRacing don't have your level of expertise or experience so you are what they need to improve the game. Hopefully they would be interested in your feedback.
Good question, I'd be curious to hear comments on this also. At the highest competition levels in iracing I imagine the physics model is being pushed to its limit and the inconsistencies/unrealistic behaviors are revealed. I think this is where the term "setup hacks" comes into play to exploit those gaps
I quit games altogether when I start buying the real cars and tracks
who are you?
Ronnie Pickering
@@jbh5992 Respect.
@@jbh5992 😂
Love iRacing. Played ACC for hundreds of hours and after playin iRacing, ACC feels like an arcade game.
the online experience in iRacing is really good, second to none. the physics though, eh, iceRacing is a meme for a reason. AC is much more natural in that aspect imo.
Well no shit it would feel arcade, it’s by far the most realistic sim that simulates a certain car(s) ( Gt3 and Gt4 ) and you’ll be surprised to know how easy driving even a race car is in real life. Iracing is by far the hardest sim but hardness does not mean more realistic.
Yeah i would rather be an aggro driver like my inspiration, dale, so no thanks on this
Please define what you mean by arcadey, put a bit more meat on the bones please.
Unfortunatly this is the same for all online "e-sports" or games. It's a shame this has infected Iracing as well.
Wether its COD/BF/World of Warcraft, any MOBA or RTS..... the TOP players who make their living from it will treat it as an elite job, spend 90+hours a week on studying the game, engine and in this case sim. Test its limits and find ways to break them that others cant. The fans (others playing that game/sim) see their scores/times and want to emulate them. And then the idiocy go's downstream into the lower ranks.
This leads to the arcady setups that make no sense IRL, but it just completely breaks the sim in some aspects as no real car would ever be run like that, so the sim doesn't know how to process the info properly anymore. It ignores every SIM aspect of sim-racing and just makes it a game where you bend the rules of the game to win.
To be fair though, i'm pretty sure IRL this also happens. Top raceteams in TOP classes will find ways around the rulebook where they can (cheat on fuel, flexi-wings, cheat on sensors, cheat on tire pressure etc). So perhaps,its a perfect copy of the real world.... and 100% a correct replication in our sims :D
this isn't anything more than a " i"m so good i quit" video lolololol!!!!!
The issue I have with Iracing is that it's not realistic! Drop the Mike
Why not try Rfactor 2 , it does have a tire model and Iracing is shit in comparison looking from a simulator point of view.
Most of the time sim racing at the higher level is basically exploiting the sim you happen to be using. iRacing is one of the worst in this regard (not that exploits of that magnitude don't require skill, because it's a whole new skill on it's own), but it's not just them.
Just drive in a manner that makes the driver behind scared and they won't try pass in iracing LOL