The reason Dalinar cant remember his wife's name nor even hear it in conversation is not psychological trauma, but an effect of his supposed "wish" to the Nightwatcher, the same monkey's paw style wish granting spren(??) Teravangian also got his occasional genius from.
Despite Dalinar not being in a lot of the book, it feels like he's ever present because how much the other character's stories revolve around him. He shines so brightly on the little pages he was given that he still looms over the story.
I know I'm way late to this video, but it sort of seems like Richard wants to understand the complete history of civilization just 2 books into a series?
Yeah this was my issue watching the book 1 review. Journey before destination Richard. He gives us a LOT in the first book and it seems you just want it all
@@skeeyee1643He just wants a purely historical encyclopedia with no narrative, excitement and poetry, aka the Silmarillion. Because that's the "worldbuilding" in LOTR, barely any in the trilogy itself
Hahahaha hey leave my guy alone. I think what he means is that they could refer or mention things that happen historically without going into them. George does that with ASOIAF a lot where he mentions Kings and wars and stuff and we only learn from those events as the books progress or from other books
When it comes to worldbuilding there is just a fundamental difference between Sanderson and Tolkien. Sanderson describes his worldbuilding as an iceberg which is to say you only see the top of it and what’s underneath is alluded to but it won’t be just straight up told to you. While Tolkien is a mountain he shows you everything and takes the time to stop the story to look at some cool trees. I will say I think the iceberg approach is what makes Sanderson’s magic systems so good is because he give you a strong look and then you yourself can start to unpack how it would work and be adapted to different situations and how it will grow with the world. I will say when it comes to personal preference I prefer Sanderson because he is able to keep the story going and as much as I love Tolkien’s world and pros in a lot of ways I find it to be too wordy to be able to relax and read.
Also Sanderson didn't write a trilogy that is shorter than Twok and then put out a history encyclopedia to do 95% of the actual "worldbuilding" that people just memory hole themselves into believing was in the actual trilogy, whose worldbuilding amounted to people walking around forever and sometimes an immortal being mentioning how "shit back in my day was different bro" Easy how that works huh...
My first read of Stormlight was a binge of books 1-4. Therefore, all of the moments in the series thus far kind of blend together in my head. Always blown away when I do a re-read at how many of my favorite moments are actually in words of radiance
The change that was made in this book ending was not Szeth being revived by Nale, It was that in the final battle Kaladin Killed Szeth with his own hands. In the corrected version he takes away the honor blade from Szeth and let him fall to its death.
The difference between Tolkiens and Sandersons Worldbuilding is, that Sanderson makes me feel invested in learning more about this world and how it works. Tolkien's has more history but I could'nt feel less interseted in learning more about it. All I need as information is basically in the opening of the movie.
I just finished Words of Radiance, and man those last 200 or so pages were just amazing! So many good moments and lines throughout this book! One of them that doesn’t get enough mention is Roion actually saving Dalinar before Kaladin arrives. Szeth sending him screaming/flying was absolutely gruesome! COSMERE SPOILERS Also the entry of Nightblood was SO FREAKING COOL! I got so many goosebumps at that moment after I had finally decided that Zahel was indeed Vasher. Very excited to continue their journeys in Oathbringer!
"honor is dead". When you said it I felt the same goosebumps I had when I first heard it listening to the audiobook. God that scene was so good. Ps: found your channel last week. Loving it so far. It made me start the wheel of time series and glad I'm reading it now.
Yes, I watched the whole video. And also yes, I do really appreciate the length. I know some people won't share that take, but I actually really like how you talked about both what you each liked and how your views compared and contrasted. That added an additional layer than a normal review would have, and it gives me new ways to think about this book that I really love. Thanks for making this! (Richard is bad, no hate)
I like the mystery of the world. It is a feature, not a bug. You have to be left asking and looking for information. Not just lore dumps left and right.
Shallan’s whole character was a masterpiece. Her quiet way of rebelling against her situation by trying to make her family laugh was so sad but beautiful and she instinctively did the same to kaladin in the chasm.
For me Way of Kings was a 4.2 out 5, i did really enjoy it alot but i jyst felt we spent way too much time plodding along wspecially with Kaladin. And i wasnt too interested in his past, so it brought the score of the book down. Funniky enough i enjoyed the Shallan chapters a bit more but obv there wasnt alot going on with her. The main thing that brought it down though was predictability - like i felt i already knew where specific storylines were going to head towards, i kinda guessed story arc and twists (esp Kaladin). The Sadeas betrayal was so obv, idk how anyone could have been shocked at that (like even a bare minimum fabatsy exposure should have made that obv to you). Now that i think about it, tf that Shallan's story was less predictable in WoK is probably why i enjoyed her so much. This book is less predictable, primary bcs Shallan takes front and centre, which made it really exciting and dark and gripping. She is such a wildcard. Shallan killing Tye (?) with her Shardblade, Shen v Ad/Ka/Da at the palace, the 4vAdolin fight scene (honour is dead IS A GOAT MOMENT), Kaladin learning to lash, the bridge collapse and Shallan and Kaladin both assuming they saved the other one, their whole time in the pits, Adolin killing Sadeas were my favourite moments. Again i will say Kaladin tragectory was pretty obvious, but his relationship with Adolin was top tier. REALLY HOPE SHALLAN AND KALADIN DO NOT BECOME AN ITEM. Also my favourite interlude was the young pre-knight radiant with her vine spren running from that executionar dude (a herald?), helping to revive that teenager and him randomly becoming the new king. That was such fun. Shallan spren (forgot his name) is super endearing. Thus defo imo a 4.7/5 5
I found your podcast, because of your deep dive on Brandon Sanderson. Love your podcast and your book recommendations. I just finished The First Law trilogy you recommended. One of my favorite books now you guys are great!!!
Before I correct your pronunciation, let me make clear that Sanderson does not insist on any pronunciation. Say it how you want. Sanderson pronounces Jasnah as Yoss-nuh, and Adolin as A-duh-Lin. Do with that whatever you like
Just finish to read Words of radiance, i was so exited to listen this, thanks for making me reading more books just to listen your podcast, love from chile 💜
A bit late in commenting but here goes about the worldbuilding portion. Let's say I'm writing a book that takes place in the modern day in the real world and one of the characters is a chef at a restaurant. At some point, they mention julienning carrots and making an hollandaise sauce for a dish. The reader might find themselves wondering (the first level question) why there are so many French words used here - chef, restaurant, julienne, hollandaise, etc. Maybe in the book you answer that question - a lot of modern cooking techniques come from France. The second level question is then - why France? Answer would be that in many ways the modern concept of a restaurant originated in France. The third level question - why did it originate there? The answer is that after the French revolution a lot of really good private chefs who served nobles opened restaurants so they could make money off the now flourishing bourgeoisie. The fourth level question is - why did the French revolution happen? And you can go even deeper after answering that question. But as an author, you can't spend a chapter talking about the causes of the French revolution just because a character juliennes carrots and makes an hollandaise sauce. You, as a reader, have to trust the author that there is a reason for why certain things exist because unless you pull a Tolkien and publish a massive lore-dump book, it's not interesting to read about the rise of the middle class in early modern France while you're reading a book about a chef who works at a restaurant. I trust the author in the Stormlight series (and in other books that I read) that there are good reasons for why things are the way they are. I don't need pages and pages detailing why safe hands exist, I just trust that there's a reason for it. It becomes a problem when internal inconsistencies arise, but until that happens I think it's totally fine that things happen off-page that underlie the culture of the world.
@@2ToRamble of course! I tend to side with Austin’s takes a little bit more-I’m not as well read as Richard either ;) that being said, I love all of the reasoning that Richard brings to the table. Makes me think I should pick up Red Rising next and see how I feel though!
When it comes to world building, I think there’s a distinction to be made between lore and environment. Richard’s gripe has to do with the sparsity of lore, Austin’s rebuttal is that the environment is pristine. They also touch on ontology, magic, and cosmology, but I think the main point of disagreement has to do with lore versus environment. (Richard is bad lol 1:06:29)
As someone who’s favorite series is the Wheel of Time but one of my favorite books is WoR, I agree that world building is closer to an 8. The amount of stories/songs/perspectives you get from the past in WoT and LoTR really sets the standard so high in regards to world building. MODERN Roshar feels deep, but bc of the desolations and the dissolution of religious hierarchy, we have no idea why the cultures that exist are the way that they are, other than that their traits are a given (besides Kholinar and some of the leftover rituals like giving up the King’s Blades for duels). I do LOVE the world building, but it just feels SO present, and I’m hitting the Sanderlanche in book 3
Tolkiens world building is untouchable and a 10/10 but for me its like...sometimes I don't need or want THAT much world building. I personally feel like we give a lot of praise to Tolkien for just going out of his way a lot of times to do stuff that, sure, was kinda cool, but was extremely unnecessary. Edit: Also "Richard is bad"
I love how Austin was just ready to respond to Richard’s arguments about the world-building 😂 I am kinda new to fantasy, so for me the world building was quite good, yes I have a lot of questions about the cultures in general, but is not like is completely EMPTY (like some horneater-like said) for me, everything else (the characters, the pace, the plot, the magic) compensates it in such a good way. And THE SANDERLANCH WAS JUST SO GOOD. Btw loved your review and interactions, you guys make everything so hilarious and entertaining I could watch a three hour review without getting bored. …..”Richard is bad”
Great video once again, you guys have great chemistry. I actually agree with the guy on the left on all the points that he makes about world building lol. The Stormlight Archive has an incrediblely expansive world but is lacking in depth especially when compared to authors like Tolkien, GRRM, Steven Erikson etc. Also longer videos are the best keep em coming
I also very much disagree with your take on the world building. I think you do it a disservice when you say “there are like two events that happened in the past and they are separated by thousands of years” because that’s just not true. I highly recommend you go back and read Dalinar’s visions because you will start to see a whole lot of things I don’t think you picked up on. Beyond that there’s also the interludes to think about, their main purpose is worldbuilding. I get what you mean when you say that there’s not much of a throughline with all the stuff in the past, but I dont think you’re taking into account the fact that the mystery of what happened in the past IS a major throughline/plot point through out the whole series(and won’t be fully explained until all 10 books are out)
I just read all your comments out loud to Richard and he said, I quote, “THAT WAS THE NICEST COMMENT IVE EVER READ” and pumped his fists in the air smiling. So you made his day - thank you and we loved your reaction to the review!
@@2ToRamble LOL You guys made my day too! No better way to nurse a hangover than to sit in total darkness listen to an in depth review on one of your favorite books
To the argument that we don’t know why the Alethi are the way they are: when Alethcar was Alethela, that was were the original home of the Knights Radiant was. So it kinda makes sense that the original home of the continent’s protectors and warriors would become the home most warlike people.
A bit late but i just finished book #2 and i have to yap somewhere about it 😅 i ABSOLUTELY loved Shallan's part in this book and i was seriously anticipating and looking forwards to every single pov of hers, whereas in book 1 i was just interested in Callidan and wanted his povs. My favorite moment had to be when Shallan first summoned her blade to kill the con woman and defend herself, followed by convincing the slave traders/desserters to follow her, and I LOVED her scenes as a spy and infilitrating, and pattern also had so many adorable scenes too. Overall shallan and callidan were potrayed amazing in this book 🎉
Thanks for listening to my yap session, I absolutely love this series and its soul crushing that I have to wait about 6 weeks for the audio book to be available 😅
30:40 this whole follow up discussion really made curious about who you are talking about. To the point I feel like watching your next spoiler review. Wondering if it's related to a character who dies in the end of this book.
WoR is my favourite Stormlight (haven't read RoW yet) but I didn't find her backstory as interesting as Kaladins or Dalinar but I did enjoy Shallan's present day story but in book 1 I loved Shallan trying to steal the SoulCaster and learning about Voidbringers
Last night I stopped listening to the audiobook with an hour left. I knew I'd finish it today and I planned on asking for this review on the way of kings video. Pretty crazy that this one came out the day I finished it. I agree with everything you said about this one and I thought it was streets ahead of the first one. The stakes for everyone were much higher and it felt like big things happened, where the first one mostly just set things up. I thought about Richard's reaction to Shallan in the first review as I listened to this one. I specifically thought several times that there is no friggin way he's going to feel the same way in this book and of course he didn't. I also thought about what you'd both say about Dalinar not being as present in this book. I agree about him being the very best character in the first and about half way through the book I realized no chapters were about him and I really wasn't missing it. This might mess you guys up and sorry for doing it, but the audiobook pronounces Adolin as A-dolin with a hard A sound and not an Ah sound. I'm sure it doesn't bother anyone, and only called it out because of your correction with Shallan. I start Oathbringer tonight and with it being Richard's favorite, it has a lot to live up to. Thanks for the reviews! I really enjoy watching them. Also, Austin never ever stop trying to get Richard to give better ratings. It'll happen one day.
Wow that is perfect timing. I promise to continue trying to raise Richard’s rating 😂. And not to raise your expectations even higher, but Oathbringer is also my favorite - I hope it pays off for you the way it did for us! And thanks for the correction on Adolin - I’m surprised Rich and I get eachothers names right at this point. Cheers on starting Oathbringer and thank you for the support as well as sharing your thoughts!
@@2ToRamble I've been listening to Oathbringer and it is living up to the hype. Still like 35 out of the 55 hours left though... I'm mainly writing back to fess up and say I hadn't finished the review at the time I wrote my comment before. I have finished it now and "Richard is bad" of whatever it was. I do honestly like the longer content. I like your guys stuff, so in my mind the more the better, but so far I've rarely been able to watch a full video without spoiling myself. Maybe split the videos or something for people that want shorter content? I don't know. Either way, thanks again Austin and talk to you guys on the Oathbringer review.
"Richard is bad" I love your videos I watch every second. I'm hoping that I eventually get caught up to what your reading as you read it but I'm always excited to think what yall thought about the books.
the high review on goodreads is likely due to the page length, its so long that most people arent going to read it except for his fans, and his fans love it so theyre gonna give it a high score
Well Fourth Wing is the fourth highest ranked on Goodreads, but somehow I don't think that is actually better than works by Tolstoy or Shakespeare or Marcel Proust, for instance. It's a statistic, but I don't think any grand conclusions can be drawn from that if we are comparing Words of Radiance to fiction, generally. Goodreads has a self-selecting sub-population of readers.
Glad you guys loved the series so much. I'd put both of the first SA books in the 6.4-6.5 range based on your criteria. I think Shallan kicked ass in the book. She's probably my favorite character, up there with Dalinar. Keep up the good work lads.
Thank you for the support! Shallan usually gets the most hate, but I (Austin writing this comment) totally agree she kicked ass here. Curious - How would you rank the Stormlight books if you’ve happened to read them all?
Great review again guys. I do wanna say two things were wrong tho. #1 being Richard’s problem with the world building, like I get that u wanna go deep in the world history but this is just book 2 of a 10 book series so expecting everything to be explained already is crazy also point #2 shallans abusive and crazy parents does not give her a more traumatic backstory than a literal slave (and human shield) and a veteran of a couple hundred battles
I listened to the Graphic Audio versions before reading the books themselves so was lucky enough to 'learn' how to pronounce their names (like Jasna = Yahzna). Also, was looking for a mention about how Sanderson connects with his other Cosmere books like The King's Wit (Hoid a recurring character), Zahel (Vasher from Warbreaker), Sword-Nimi (Nightblood from Warbreaker) etc... I think those things might help to improve te 'World Building' score. I'm pretty sure a lot of the history is being hidden on purpose by Sanderson, and I think a lot of the payoff is going to come as we progress through the series (a 10 books series). Sanderson builds up the tension throughout the book then you get a 'Sanderlanche' the end. You can really tell this was based on his D&D campaign. There are so many different story lines going on in the world with a lot of the side stories that will eventually converge with the main story arc by the time we're nearing the end.
I feel like on Richard’s comment on liking then not liking then liking characters, one example could be Khaladin with his decision to go with the killing of the king, then going the other way. While it might be not as drastic, it’s there.
I agree on Richards world building score, there is something about Sandersons world building that doesnt feel as real to me. I think its partly because of the way he writes where he puts a spotlight on the cool things in world as the characters discover it + the characters seem to be at the forefront of discovering and inventing a lot of world and magic elements. This gives the feeling that world is being created as you read rather than all ways existing in the background ..and makes it feel like the world completely revolves around the central characters rather than the other way round (especially with how fast technolgy starts to evolve in later books). An example of 10/10 world building for me, along side Tolkien, would be Ursula K. Le Guin's "Left Hand of Darkness". The cultures and history of the alien planet in that book feel 100% real and utterly convincing. Highly reccomend for something a bit different (short read too)
Wanting to reread the whole Cosmere for the Third time (Stormlight 2 for the Fourth time), but I feel that I will finish before Wind and Truth gets released if I start now, which is definitely going to be a highlight of 2024, but I want to read it off a fresh reread.
I am currently reading WOT 13 for the first time and you need to read the series! Also just an FYI with Jasnah Kholin 'YAHS-nah Though Brandon doesn't really care about pronunciations, he apparently indicated at an unspecified signing that Jasnah is pronounced with the Greek or Hebrew "J": a "Y" sound. So, "YAHS-nah".'
Perfect - Thank you for the correction! And Richard has read the WOT, so we will be doing episodes im the future where I (Austin) read them for the first time and Richard re-reads them - we actually plan on doing a review for each book. Will be a long project but totally worth it
@@2ToRamble I think it will be interesting when you read them to see what you think because I think WOT and Stormlight (and LOR are very similar and closely ranked for me. You will fly through WOT if you are a Sando fan I am loving it.
It's funny to listen to Richard go in on the world building section, but then the Praise for Stormlight from reviewers will be like "detailed worldbuilding" "skill in world building is unmatched"
Just found your podcast. I feel like you two have a different definition on worldsetting😹 I would agree with the 7/8 marks. For me, worldsetting is about the culture and politics of different nations/races in the current time, the history that led up to the current culture/politics. All the pros the kind gentleman on the right (sorry didn't catch your name!) are mainly on magic system. (Tho tbf, in Sanderson's book magic system is greatly intertwined with the world history) While the gentleman on the right had a more traditional definition on worldsetting based on his past reading on LotR and WoT, where a random bush would probably have its own poem abt its history lol
53:00 I think you miss the point with a lot of the worldbuilding. There's a few things to note: 1) Sanderson approaches the history that he gives to the audience THROUGH the characters, and MOST of the characters aren't concerned with what happened, two, three, even five hundred years ago, let alone a thousand, two thousand, and so on. 2) The advent of the True Desolation makes things from 4500 years prior more relevant than something that happened even 50 years prior. 3) In world, roughly 500 years prior, the Vorin church basically took over ALL of eastern Roshar and censored...well, EVERYTHING. This is part of Jasnah's story (moreso in Oathbringer), is that she laments how much was lost because of the mass censorship by the church. There is so little first-hand records left, that it destroyed most of what is truly considered "accurate history". 4) The perspective of the characters is limited to Alethkar, for the most part, because that's where the main characters ARE, and where they come from. They're not gonna care about the history of the Shin, because they're on the other side of the world. Again, this goes back to what's relevant to the characters.
Honestly, I could've listened to you talking about Words of radiance for hours and hours. Unfortunately I don't know anyone who read the stormlight archive and it's hella interesting hearing others talk about this book series and Austen protecting Stormlight from Richards lower rankings. 😂😂😂❤
Words of Radiance is a 10/10 masterpiece! And the great thing about the world building and lore building, is that it provides just enough for the individual books story and reveals that add to the big event that’s actually happening within that book. I think by book 5, we will finally have the full story. But I just finished book 2 and was blown away and I had to finally watch this review! And it was great! Thank you guys! 😊😂
I disagree with you when you say that GRRM doesn't owe anyone a book. He made promises to his fans that have been supporting him and his lifestyle for decades, doing anything less than finishing the series at this point is a slap in the face.
Fair enough, my thought is mainly people can't force him to write but readers can't be forced to stay interested in his content. However I do know he has gone back on many promises, which is a different matter.
Does Richard’s point about the “worldbuilding” compared to LoTR and WoT, does he hold them to the same standard? does each one of those books explain the whole history of the past and the whole reason why each culture is different? no they don’t. each book has pieces just like these have pieces. He’s applying everything he knows about Tolkiens world, which included a lot of things that were not in LoTR. I highly doubt if he applied the same factors to the Two Towers it would hold up to this level of apparent “world building” that he requires.
This is a matter of preference, but my opinion on the worldbuilding is that Tolkien and Jordan both focus a LOT of their worldbuilding on the history of the world, while in Stormlight focuses most of his worldbuilding on the natural world and how the magic interacts with the landscape and life on the planet. If what you look for in the worldbuilding is history, than yes I think Stormlight falls short in comparison to wheel of time, but I think the overall worldbuilding is comparable in quality
31:15 I feel like Kaladin's arc in this book is a perfect example of Sanderson making a character hate-able. I finished the book about a week ago and I would say for a large portion of the book I was not rooting for Kaladin. I think for nearly 3/4s we were watching a hero unravel, as the reader I felt more and more frustrated listening to Kaladin. While I was reading the duel scene I was constantly anticipating the line where Kaladin would jump in and save the day. It felt so satisfying when he finally did not just because it was written so well but there was also the thought that maybe Kaladin had truly lost his heroic instincts. The only complaint I had was Syl's depth was very meh but that was definitely the turning point where you start to root for Kaladin again.
I agree, that the Moash character could have been improved. Perhaps include him in the Teft, Rock, plot points or to have them connect in book one to become friends. Just something more for Moash.
Enjoy the content! My biggest gripe with the book was the Lift interlude. I am half way through edgedancer now and it is tolerable but she is still the worst part of the story. Maybe it gets even better in the back half. But it was pulling teeth to get through the interlude so I could get back to the awesome story I was trying to read. I heard someone call Lift the Jar Jar Binks of stormlight and I couldn't think of a more apt description. Awesomeness is cringe. Also Richard is bad.
@@2ToRamble I finished Edgedancer. She has definitely improved as a character, only just started Oathbringer and her story hasnt come up yet but she is growing on me like Shallan did in words of radiance the more I think about her.
@@DalmathusLift is fascinating because of how she is running from her issues. The dialogue itself reflects this, and that's what makes her sections great. The issue is that her juvenile sense of humor is very polarizing. I personally love her, but I understand why others don't.
Hey guys, just wanted to say, just like the Way of Kings book review I waited for this one, but at least I came into this one expecting Richard to disappoint me.
I’m kinda partially more on Richard’s side for this this one, especially in world building. Like I know eventually all this info is out there. But I have to admit I really at this point struggle to understand the history of the desolations and the void bringers, what exactly is really is the deal with the Parshmen and Parshendi? I do not understand how they are voidbringers? And now I just read first chapter of Oathbringer from Eshonai, I’m actually a little more confused what is her motivations? Maybe I’m missing something and need a primer. The history thing regarding the reset to the Stone Age and how little we know of the Bronze Age, that’s still 5000 years, and while it was originally just like men’s glyphs, we still ended up with tons of information, and the fact this world has basically email, written records about other cultures and places must be so easy to access. Still, it was absolutely unbeatable in character and plot! That was amazing and Shallan is now my favorite by far in how assertive and clever and creative with her talents she became even early on
Newcomer to y’all’s channel, im a fan. I like that there are two perspectives: one that’s reads lots of fantasy and one that’s discovering new reads. But the name butchering is unforgivable 😂😉
I see the history and the culture as just another thing that will be referenced through out the rest of the books. The history as someone said before is still being discovered. The deeper history of cosmere like during the shadow days what happened. How did roshar come to be and how did the heralds make up the 10 silver kingdoms. With that and probably book 5 we should have some answers. Also Richard is bad
I just finished the book an hour, seven minutes and twenty seconds ago. How dare you assume I don't enjoy watching the stormlight discussions till the end haha Anyways, I really try hard to not hand out a 5/5 stars or 10/10 because of listening to your reviews, but I couldn't help by marking this as a 5 star on goodreads (more so because 4/5 just sounds terrible and I wish goodreads did their ratings out of 10). Though the more specific score would be a solid 9/10, I just couldn't give it a 4/5 because it feels wrong lol I'll most likely change it but I think since everything is so fresh in my mind, i can't help but give it a 5/5 on goodreads. I will say though, Richie gives some really, really good arguments when it comes to world building that I totally agree with. I try to rate all the books I read more so on an objective level and try to leave preferences out of the way to a certain degree... but considering that this is to be a 10 book series, I'm willing to give the world building aspect a higher rating because even though I don't understand completely the why/how, I do feel truly in awe when I'm sitting down and reading through the book. And considering that you guys say a lot of those world building questions get answered in the next and fourth book, I will give it a higher rating now because I think Sanderson may intend just for us to be emotionally attached and engrossed by the world, that he's not concerned about giving us the why and how just yet. If the series was only four or five books long then yeah I'd say he should definitely change and add some of those history elements within the first two books, but because there's gonna be 8 more books after Words of Radiance, I think the intention may be just to immerse yourself in the world first and I think sanderson really does just that, so that by the end of this book, you are now putting a lot of the things together and asking the why and how... if that makes sense. Love ya guys I just can't wait till Sanderson has the privilege to be interviewed by you two lol
SPOILER WARNING (if you're someone who just wanted to watch the spoiler free part and then check out the comments, don't read this one now ! Finish the book first !) I liked Shallan's backstory but I don't agree with them being so much better than the others... Maybe because I guessed from the very first one that she was actually the one who killed her mother ? And also because I've read other books which treat about abuse so it didn't stood out to me as much. But the scene when she killed her father was very gripping for me : since I already thought she was the one who killed the mother and he had been protecting her it was so tragic, especially with her singing the song he song to her that night... so sad !
@2 To Ramble Great fantasy series about a world in which there are 3 suns that very rarely ever set and a girl that draws power from the dark who is trying to avenge her family. Highly rate it and would definitely recommend to you guys 👍
I feel like Tolkien’s writing, including his prose, characterization, worldbuilding, etc. are the gold standard for a particular audience in the mid-twentieth century. Brandon does all of those in a more easily digestible way for modern audiences. I don’t think it’s fair to say his worldbuilding doesn’t explicitly go as deep into the history of his world because that’s not what he tries to accomplish with his writing.
Love your guy's content! One of the most interesting book review channels out there. Have either of you read anything else in the Cosmere? Aside from Brandon Sanderson, what other series have your both read?
Thank you! Most of the books behind us Richard has read - and as far as the Cosmere goes we have read Warbreaker, Emperor’s Soul, and Rich has read Mistborn and a few more I believe. But still lots to read in the fantasy genre so if you have any suggestions for us anytime let us know!
@@2ToRamble I definitely recommend continuing with the Cosmere. Mistborn is an excellent series and I personally like Era 1 better than anything else in the Cosmere. It is what got me back in to reading. Next I would recommend Lies of Lock Lamora. It is the first book in an unfinished series where the author is taking a long time to finnish, but I still think that it is well worth the read. If you want a series that is completed, I love the Powder Mage series. Rich's pitch video of the series is what hooked me on you guys! Give it a go and then read the second trilogy together.
I want to get into fantasy, I’ve been choosing between The Lord of The Rings, ASOIAF, and Stormlight Archive. I’ve seen how highly rated the SA books are and that really intrigues me. Also it seems like a very interesting world. The reason why I would choose Lord of the Rings is that I’ve watched the trilogy like 3 times, and I love it, so I’d assume it would be an easier read. Also, everyone has watched GoT. The best show ever made. It would be really cool when SA gets adapted to HBO or netflix and I’m sitting here like “yeah… I’m cool because I read the books already”😎 Which series would you recommend reading first?
You can’t go wrong with these choices! I (austin) would only recommend being careful of starting ASOIAF because we don’t know if the series will get finished. Lord of the Rings as you know is completed and if you want to read the GOAT that started it all and see the interesting differences between the films and books, definitely give it a go - the books give a whole new meaning and perspective to the story (books and films are just perfect - so much to get out of them). But if you want a more modern read where you don’t know where the story is going (because ofc you know what happens in LOTR) - I’d say now is a great time to start before book 5 comes out next year!
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
POV: you are the only person who isn’t a family member waiting for this review
Richard is (not) bad (usually)
Thank goodness you added the usually, you almost got his hopes up 😂
I called my firstborn Nynaeve, I love The Wheel of Time, but the "Honour is dead, but I will see what I can do", moment is next level.
The reason Dalinar cant remember his wife's name nor even hear it in conversation is not psychological trauma, but an effect of his supposed "wish" to the Nightwatcher, the same monkey's paw style wish granting spren(??) Teravangian also got his occasional genius from.
Despite Dalinar not being in a lot of the book, it feels like he's ever present because how much the other character's stories revolve around him.
He shines so brightly on the little pages he was given that he still looms over the story.
I think by Stormlight 7 we could manage to turn Richard's score for Worldbuilding in Way of Kings into an 8/10. Let's keep it up!
(Richard): you can hope. 🤣
I know I'm way late to this video, but it sort of seems like Richard wants to understand the complete history of civilization just 2 books into a series?
YOU TELL HIM CONNER 😂
Yeah this was my issue watching the book 1 review. Journey before destination Richard. He gives us a LOT in the first book and it seems you just want it all
@@skeeyee1643 Agree, to give it all would mean we would have to get a big encyclopedia. Which is not fun to read at all.
@@skeeyee1643He just wants a purely historical encyclopedia with no narrative, excitement and poetry, aka the Silmarillion.
Because that's the "worldbuilding" in LOTR, barely any in the trilogy itself
Hahahaha hey leave my guy alone. I think what he means is that they could refer or mention things that happen historically without going into them. George does that with ASOIAF a lot where he mentions Kings and wars and stuff and we only learn from those events as the books progress or from other books
When it comes to worldbuilding there is just a fundamental difference between Sanderson and Tolkien. Sanderson describes his worldbuilding as an iceberg which is to say you only see the top of it and what’s underneath is alluded to but it won’t be just straight up told to you. While Tolkien is a mountain he shows you everything and takes the time to stop the story to look at some cool trees. I will say I think the iceberg approach is what makes Sanderson’s magic systems so good is because he give you a strong look and then you yourself can start to unpack how it would work and be adapted to different situations and how it will grow with the world. I will say when it comes to personal preference I prefer Sanderson because he is able to keep the story going and as much as I love Tolkien’s world and pros in a lot of ways I find it to be too wordy to be able to relax and read.
Real interesting points here - very fair!
Also Sanderson didn't write a trilogy that is shorter than Twok and then put out a history encyclopedia to do 95% of the actual "worldbuilding" that people just memory hole themselves into believing was in the actual trilogy, whose worldbuilding amounted to people walking around forever and sometimes an immortal being mentioning how "shit back in my day was different bro"
Easy how that works huh...
After I read each book, I watch your videos! I love the commentary between you two and it allows me to reflect on the book more!
Appreciate it a bunch!
My first read of Stormlight was a binge of books 1-4. Therefore, all of the moments in the series thus far kind of blend together in my head. Always blown away when I do a re-read at how many of my favorite moments are actually in words of radiance
The change that was made in this book ending was not Szeth being revived by Nale, It was that in the final battle Kaladin Killed Szeth with his own hands.
In the corrected version he takes away the honor blade from Szeth and let him fall to its death.
Just found this channel a few days ago. These guys are just awesome. I am absolutely hooked on their content. So good.
Wow! Thanks so much for this, so glad you’re enjoying!
The difference between Tolkiens and Sandersons Worldbuilding is, that Sanderson makes me feel invested in learning more about this world and how it works. Tolkien's has more history but I could'nt feel less interseted in learning more about it. All I need as information is basically in the opening of the movie.
Interesting! Richard would definitely disagree, but I (austin) do love both authors’ worldbuidling for very different reason. Totally get you, though
My favourite words of radiance moment was Adolin murking Sadeas in a dark hallway 😂
I just finished Words of Radiance, and man those last 200 or so pages were just amazing!
So many good moments and lines throughout this book! One of them that doesn’t get enough mention is Roion actually saving Dalinar before Kaladin arrives. Szeth sending him screaming/flying was absolutely gruesome!
COSMERE SPOILERS
Also the entry of Nightblood was SO FREAKING COOL! I got so many goosebumps at that moment after I had finally decided that Zahel was indeed Vasher. Very excited to continue their journeys in Oathbringer!
"honor is dead". When you said it I felt the same goosebumps I had when I first heard it listening to the audiobook. God that scene was so good.
Ps: found your channel last week. Loving it so far. It made me start the wheel of time series and glad I'm reading it now.
Glad you found us! We are starting our WOT spoiler-free and full review series very soon as well. Great timing
Yes, I watched the whole video. And also yes, I do really appreciate the length. I know some people won't share that take, but I actually really like how you talked about both what you each liked and how your views compared and contrasted. That added an additional layer than a normal review would have, and it gives me new ways to think about this book that I really love. Thanks for making this!
(Richard is bad, no hate)
Thanks so much for watching and the feedback!
I like the mystery of the world. It is a feature, not a bug. You have to be left asking and looking for information. Not just lore dumps left and right.
Words of Radiance defo my fav cosmere book, close second has to be final empire. Love the pod btw guys keep it up!! :)
Thank you!!
Shallan’s whole character was a masterpiece. Her quiet way of rebelling against her situation by trying to make her family laugh was so sad but beautiful and she instinctively did the same to kaladin in the chasm.
loved the video guys! i'm about to start oathbringer and i'm so excited
Oathbringer is our favorite. Hope you love it because book 2 seems untoppable but we think it does it! Cheers
Just dropping by to say my brother and I listen to your guys’ every podcast all the way from Spain and absolutely love it. Keep up the great work!!
Thank you to you and your brother - we’re honored!
For me Way of Kings was a 4.2 out 5, i did really enjoy it alot but i jyst felt we spent way too much time plodding along wspecially with Kaladin. And i wasnt too interested in his past, so it brought the score of the book down. Funniky enough i enjoyed the Shallan chapters a bit more but obv there wasnt alot going on with her. The main thing that brought it down though was predictability - like i felt i already knew where specific storylines were going to head towards, i kinda guessed story arc and twists (esp Kaladin). The Sadeas betrayal was so obv, idk how anyone could have been shocked at that (like even a bare minimum fabatsy exposure should have made that obv to you). Now that i think about it, tf that Shallan's story was less predictable in WoK is probably why i enjoyed her so much.
This book is less predictable, primary bcs Shallan takes front and centre, which made it really exciting and dark and gripping. She is such a wildcard. Shallan killing Tye (?) with her Shardblade, Shen v Ad/Ka/Da at the palace, the 4vAdolin fight scene (honour is dead IS A GOAT MOMENT), Kaladin learning to lash, the bridge collapse and Shallan and Kaladin both assuming they saved the other one, their whole time in the pits, Adolin killing Sadeas were my favourite moments.
Again i will say Kaladin tragectory was pretty obvious, but his relationship with Adolin was top tier. REALLY HOPE SHALLAN AND KALADIN DO NOT BECOME AN ITEM. Also my favourite interlude was the young pre-knight radiant with her vine spren running from that executionar dude (a herald?), helping to revive that teenager and him randomly becoming the new king. That was such fun. Shallan spren (forgot his name) is super endearing. Thus defo imo a 4.7/5 5
I found your podcast, because of your deep dive on Brandon Sanderson. Love your podcast and your book recommendations. I just finished The First Law trilogy you recommended. One of my favorite books now you guys are great!!!
Too kind - thank you for the continued support! So glad you loved First Law
I love your long videos, and with all respect Richard is bad haha
😆😆
Common 2 to Ramble W 🎯
The Cosmere is how I found out about you guys and a BrandoSando review, just as his books, will never disappoint
Thank you big time!! Sando is the man 👊
Before I correct your pronunciation, let me make clear that Sanderson does not insist on any pronunciation. Say it how you want. Sanderson pronounces Jasnah as Yoss-nuh, and Adolin as A-duh-Lin. Do with that whatever you like
Just finish to read Words of radiance, i was so exited to listen this, thanks for making me reading more books just to listen your podcast, love from chile 💜
❤️
A bit late in commenting but here goes about the worldbuilding portion.
Let's say I'm writing a book that takes place in the modern day in the real world and one of the characters is a chef at a restaurant. At some point, they mention julienning carrots and making an hollandaise sauce for a dish. The reader might find themselves wondering (the first level question) why there are so many French words used here - chef, restaurant, julienne, hollandaise, etc. Maybe in the book you answer that question - a lot of modern cooking techniques come from France. The second level question is then - why France? Answer would be that in many ways the modern concept of a restaurant originated in France. The third level question - why did it originate there? The answer is that after the French revolution a lot of really good private chefs who served nobles opened restaurants so they could make money off the now flourishing bourgeoisie. The fourth level question is - why did the French revolution happen? And you can go even deeper after answering that question.
But as an author, you can't spend a chapter talking about the causes of the French revolution just because a character juliennes carrots and makes an hollandaise sauce. You, as a reader, have to trust the author that there is a reason for why certain things exist because unless you pull a Tolkien and publish a massive lore-dump book, it's not interesting to read about the rise of the middle class in early modern France while you're reading a book about a chef who works at a restaurant.
I trust the author in the Stormlight series (and in other books that I read) that there are good reasons for why things are the way they are. I don't need pages and pages detailing why safe hands exist, I just trust that there's a reason for it. It becomes a problem when internal inconsistencies arise, but until that happens I think it's totally fine that things happen off-page that underlie the culture of the world.
I'm making my way through your video backlog now that I work from home :) I cannot believe this channel isn't much bigger. You guys are great!
Cheers, thanks so much!
@@2ToRamble of course! I tend to side with Austin’s takes a little bit more-I’m not as well read as Richard either ;) that being said, I love all of the reasoning that Richard brings to the table.
Makes me think I should pick up Red Rising next and see how I feel though!
ooo If you read it please let us know what you think!!@@the_ricku
When it comes to world building, I think there’s a distinction to be made between lore and environment. Richard’s gripe has to do with the sparsity of lore, Austin’s rebuttal is that the environment is pristine.
They also touch on ontology, magic, and cosmology, but I think the main point of disagreement has to do with lore versus environment.
(Richard is bad lol 1:06:29)
As someone who’s favorite series is the Wheel of Time but one of my favorite books is WoR, I agree that world building is closer to an 8. The amount of stories/songs/perspectives you get from the past in WoT and LoTR really sets the standard so high in regards to world building. MODERN Roshar feels deep, but bc of the desolations and the dissolution of religious hierarchy, we have no idea why the cultures that exist are the way that they are, other than that their traits are a given (besides Kholinar and some of the leftover rituals like giving up the King’s Blades for duels). I do LOVE the world building, but it just feels SO present, and I’m hitting the Sanderlanche in book 3
Can’t wait for y’all’s take on Oathbringer
Tolkiens world building is untouchable and a 10/10 but for me its like...sometimes I don't need or want THAT much world building. I personally feel like we give a lot of praise to Tolkien for just going out of his way a lot of times to do stuff that, sure, was kinda cool, but was extremely unnecessary. Edit: Also "Richard is bad"
This is great timing - I just finished Way of Kings on your recommendation (loved it) and just started reading Words of Radiance.
Now I can go back and watch the spoiler review of WoK 😍
Awesome - and please tell us what you think when you finish Words of Radiance!
I love how Austin was just ready to respond to Richard’s arguments about the world-building 😂
I am kinda new to fantasy, so for me the world building was quite good, yes I have a lot of questions about the cultures in general, but is not like is completely EMPTY (like some horneater-like said) for me, everything else (the characters, the pace, the plot, the magic) compensates it in such a good way. And THE SANDERLANCH WAS JUST SO GOOD.
Btw loved your review and interactions, you guys make everything so hilarious and entertaining I could watch a three hour review without getting bored.
…..”Richard is bad”
Thanks so much!
I really liked your review for TWOK, so this is great! Thanks for making great content!
Of course - thanks for watching us!
Loving this content guys! Thanks!
Much thanks!
Great video once again, you guys have great chemistry. I actually agree with the guy on the left on all the points that he makes about world building lol. The Stormlight Archive has an incrediblely expansive world but is lacking in depth especially when compared to authors like Tolkien, GRRM, Steven Erikson etc. Also longer videos are the best keep em coming
Thank you for the support! And fair - Rich does make good points. Just don’t tell him I said that 😶🌫️
I also very much disagree with your take on the world building. I think you do it a disservice when you say “there are like two events that happened in the past and they are separated by thousands of years” because that’s just not true. I highly recommend you go back and read Dalinar’s visions because you will start to see a whole lot of things I don’t think you picked up on. Beyond that there’s also the interludes to think about, their main purpose is worldbuilding. I get what you mean when you say that there’s not much of a throughline with all the stuff in the past, but I dont think you’re taking into account the fact that the mystery of what happened in the past IS a major throughline/plot point through out the whole series(and won’t be fully explained until all 10 books are out)
Edit: wow my hubris is hilarious, I should have watched the rest of the vid before commenting! This worldbuilding discussion is hype
Richard has such an interesting take on this, I can’t wait to hear what he thinks about Oathbringer!
10/10 review Richard is (not) bad
I just read all your comments out loud to Richard and he said, I quote, “THAT WAS THE NICEST COMMENT IVE EVER READ” and pumped his fists in the air smiling. So you made his day - thank you and we loved your reaction to the review!
@@2ToRamble LOL You guys made my day too! No better way to nurse a hangover than to sit in total darkness listen to an in depth review on one of your favorite books
50:43 "You're breaking my heart" is the best reaction to everything negative Richard says 😂
To the argument that we don’t know why the Alethi are the way they are: when Alethcar was Alethela, that was were the original home of the Knights Radiant was. So it kinda makes sense that the original home of the continent’s protectors and warriors would become the home most warlike people.
A bit late but i just finished book #2 and i have to yap somewhere about it 😅 i ABSOLUTELY loved Shallan's part in this book and i was seriously anticipating and looking forwards to every single pov of hers, whereas in book 1 i was just interested in Callidan and wanted his povs. My favorite moment had to be when Shallan first summoned her blade to kill the con woman and defend herself, followed by convincing the slave traders/desserters to follow her, and I LOVED her scenes as a spy and infilitrating, and pattern also had so many adorable scenes too. Overall shallan and callidan were potrayed amazing in this book 🎉
Thanks for listening to my yap session, I absolutely love this series and its soul crushing that I have to wait about 6 weeks for the audio book to be available 😅
30:40 this whole follow up discussion really made curious about who you are talking about. To the point I feel like watching your next spoiler review.
Wondering if it's related to a character who dies in the end of this book.
u guys got me in too reading fantasy books, thank u bois love this keep it up!
WoR is my favourite Stormlight (haven't read RoW yet) but I didn't find her backstory as interesting as Kaladins or Dalinar but I did enjoy Shallan's present day story but in book 1 I loved Shallan trying to steal the SoulCaster and learning about Voidbringers
Last night I stopped listening to the audiobook with an hour left. I knew I'd finish it today and I planned on asking for this review on the way of kings video. Pretty crazy that this one came out the day I finished it.
I agree with everything you said about this one and I thought it was streets ahead of the first one. The stakes for everyone were much higher and it felt like big things happened, where the first one mostly just set things up.
I thought about Richard's reaction to Shallan in the first review as I listened to this one. I specifically thought several times that there is no friggin way he's going to feel the same way in this book and of course he didn't.
I also thought about what you'd both say about Dalinar not being as present in this book. I agree about him being the very best character in the first and about half way through the book I realized no chapters were about him and I really wasn't missing it.
This might mess you guys up and sorry for doing it, but the audiobook pronounces Adolin as A-dolin with a hard A sound and not an Ah sound. I'm sure it doesn't bother anyone, and only called it out because of your correction with Shallan.
I start Oathbringer tonight and with it being Richard's favorite, it has a lot to live up to. Thanks for the reviews! I really enjoy watching them.
Also, Austin never ever stop trying to get Richard to give better ratings. It'll happen one day.
Wow that is perfect timing.
I promise to continue trying to raise Richard’s rating 😂. And not to raise your expectations even higher, but Oathbringer is also my favorite - I hope it pays off for you the way it did for us!
And thanks for the correction on Adolin - I’m surprised Rich and I get eachothers names right at this point.
Cheers on starting Oathbringer and thank you for the support as well as sharing your thoughts!
@@2ToRamble I've been listening to Oathbringer and it is living up to the hype. Still like 35 out of the 55 hours left though...
I'm mainly writing back to fess up and say I hadn't finished the review at the time I wrote my comment before. I have finished it now and "Richard is bad" of whatever it was. I do honestly like the longer content. I like your guys stuff, so in my mind the more the better, but so far I've rarely been able to watch a full video without spoiling myself. Maybe split the videos or something for people that want shorter content? I don't know. Either way, thanks again Austin and talk to you guys on the Oathbringer review.
@@SlimShanieProductions Thank you for that feedback! This is a good idea and we might focus on some content that is completely spoiler-free as well.
"Richard is bad" I love your videos I watch every second. I'm hoping that I eventually get caught up to what your reading as you read it but I'm always excited to think what yall thought about the books.
Thanks so much!
the high review on goodreads is likely due to the page length, its so long that most people arent going to read it except for his fans, and his fans love it so theyre gonna give it a high score
Well Fourth Wing is the fourth highest ranked on Goodreads, but somehow I don't think that is actually better than works by Tolstoy or Shakespeare or Marcel Proust, for instance. It's a statistic, but I don't think any grand conclusions can be drawn from that if we are comparing Words of Radiance to fiction, generally. Goodreads has a self-selecting sub-population of readers.
the day of recreance was my absolute favorite scene of the first book, like mua, masterpiece.
Glad you guys loved the series so much.
I'd put both of the first SA books in the 6.4-6.5 range based on your criteria.
I think Shallan kicked ass in the book. She's probably my favorite character, up there with Dalinar.
Keep up the good work lads.
Thank you for the support! Shallan usually gets the most hate, but I (Austin writing this comment) totally agree she kicked ass here. Curious - How would you rank the Stormlight books if you’ve happened to read them all?
@@2ToRamble I'd say WoR beats out WoK. Haven't gotten to the rest of the series yet though. Hopefully later this month I can start up Oathbringer.
@@variancereviews5265 Agreed! And definitely do - Oathbinger is our personal favorite in the series
@@2ToRamble I don't hear that too often. Excited to see why when you post the next installation in the future. 👌
@@variancereviews5265 I'm pretty sure there reason why can be summed up in one word. Dalinar.
Great review again guys. I do wanna say two things were wrong tho. #1 being Richard’s problem with the world building, like I get that u wanna go deep in the world history but this is just book 2 of a 10 book series so expecting everything to be explained already is crazy also point #2 shallans abusive and crazy parents does not give her a more traumatic backstory than a literal slave (and human shield) and a veteran of a couple hundred battles
I listened to the Graphic Audio versions before reading the books themselves so was lucky enough to 'learn' how to pronounce their names (like Jasna = Yahzna). Also, was looking for a mention about how Sanderson connects with his other Cosmere books like The King's Wit (Hoid a recurring character), Zahel (Vasher from Warbreaker), Sword-Nimi (Nightblood from Warbreaker) etc... I think those things might help to improve te 'World Building' score. I'm pretty sure a lot of the history is being hidden on purpose by Sanderson, and I think a lot of the payoff is going to come as we progress through the series (a 10 books series). Sanderson builds up the tension throughout the book then you get a 'Sanderlanche' the end. You can really tell this was based on his D&D campaign. There are so many different story lines going on in the world with a lot of the side stories that will eventually converge with the main story arc by the time we're nearing the end.
I feel like on Richard’s comment on liking then not liking then liking characters, one example could be Khaladin with his decision to go with the killing of the king, then going the other way. While it might be not as drastic, it’s there.
Ahh fair point - I’m sure Richard would agree with that. Not as drastic but definitely there
I agree on Richards world building score, there is something about Sandersons world building that doesnt feel as real to me. I think its partly because of the way he writes where he puts a spotlight on the cool things in world as the characters discover it + the characters seem to be at the forefront of discovering and inventing a lot of world and magic elements. This gives the feeling that world is being created as you read rather than all ways existing in the background ..and makes it feel like the world completely revolves around the central characters rather than the other way round (especially with how fast technolgy starts to evolve in later books). An example of 10/10 world building for me, along side Tolkien, would be Ursula K. Le Guin's "Left Hand of Darkness". The cultures and history of the alien planet in that book feel 100% real and utterly convincing. Highly reccomend for something a bit different (short read too)
Wanting to reread the whole Cosmere for the Third time (Stormlight 2 for the Fourth time), but I feel that I will finish before Wind and Truth gets released if I start now, which is definitely going to be a highlight of 2024, but I want to read it off a fresh reread.
I am currently reading WOT 13 for the first time and you need to read the series!
Also just an FYI with Jasnah Kholin
'YAHS-nah
Though Brandon doesn't really care about pronunciations, he apparently indicated at an unspecified signing that Jasnah is pronounced with the Greek or Hebrew "J": a "Y" sound. So, "YAHS-nah".'
Perfect - Thank you for the correction! And Richard has read the WOT, so we will be doing episodes im the future where I (Austin) read them for the first time and Richard re-reads them - we actually plan on doing a review for each book. Will be a long project but totally worth it
@@2ToRamble I think it will be interesting when you read them to see what you think because I think WOT and Stormlight (and LOR are very similar and closely ranked for me. You will fly through WOT if you are a Sando fan I am loving it.
They also seemed to think it was spelled “Jesnah”, but there’s no e in her name…
I only ever read the first edition, so I never knew about the Szeth edit. Interesting.
I strongly agree with Austin that the world building is exceptional. Words of Radiance is a top 10 book for me no question, as is The Way of Kings
It's funny to listen to Richard go in on the world building section, but then the Praise for Stormlight from reviewers will be like "detailed worldbuilding" "skill in world building is unmatched"
Just found your podcast. I feel like you two have a different definition on worldsetting😹 I would agree with the 7/8 marks. For me, worldsetting is about the culture and politics of different nations/races in the current time, the history that led up to the current culture/politics. All the pros the kind gentleman on the right (sorry didn't catch your name!) are mainly on magic system. (Tho tbf, in Sanderson's book magic system is greatly intertwined with the world history) While the gentleman on the right had a more traditional definition on worldsetting based on his past reading on LotR and WoT, where a random bush would probably have its own poem abt its history lol
“Richard is bad”
But not really because I agree with you. 7.5 is a solid score. worthy score.
53:00 I think you miss the point with a lot of the worldbuilding. There's a few things to note: 1) Sanderson approaches the history that he gives to the audience THROUGH the characters, and MOST of the characters aren't concerned with what happened, two, three, even five hundred years ago, let alone a thousand, two thousand, and so on. 2) The advent of the True Desolation makes things from 4500 years prior more relevant than something that happened even 50 years prior. 3) In world, roughly 500 years prior, the Vorin church basically took over ALL of eastern Roshar and censored...well, EVERYTHING. This is part of Jasnah's story (moreso in Oathbringer), is that she laments how much was lost because of the mass censorship by the church. There is so little first-hand records left, that it destroyed most of what is truly considered "accurate history". 4) The perspective of the characters is limited to Alethkar, for the most part, because that's where the main characters ARE, and where they come from. They're not gonna care about the history of the Shin, because they're on the other side of the world. Again, this goes back to what's relevant to the characters.
Honestly, I could've listened to you talking about Words of radiance for hours and hours.
Unfortunately I don't know anyone who read the stormlight archive and it's hella interesting hearing others talk about this book series and Austen protecting Stormlight from Richards lower rankings. 😂😂😂❤
😂 thank you!!
Words of Radiance is a 10/10 masterpiece! And the great thing about the world building and lore building, is that it provides just enough for the individual books story and reveals that add to the big event that’s actually happening within that book. I think by book 5, we will finally have the full story. But I just finished book 2 and was blown away and I had to finally watch this review! And it was great! Thank you guys! 😊😂
Thanks for watching!!
@@2ToRamble - You’re welcome!
I disagree with you when you say that GRRM doesn't owe anyone a book. He made promises to his fans that have been supporting him and his lifestyle for decades, doing anything less than finishing the series at this point is a slap in the face.
Fair enough, my thought is mainly people can't force him to write but readers can't be forced to stay interested in his content. However I do know he has gone back on many promises, which is a different matter.
Does Richard’s point about the “worldbuilding” compared to LoTR and WoT, does he hold them to the same standard? does each one of those books explain the whole history of the past and the whole reason why each culture is different? no they don’t. each book has pieces just like these have pieces. He’s applying everything he knows about Tolkiens world, which included a lot of things that were not in LoTR. I highly doubt if he applied the same factors to the Two Towers it would hold up to this level of apparent “world building” that he requires.
"richard is bad".. going through your stormlight videos makes me feel less crazy! i hope it helps
This is a matter of preference, but my opinion on the worldbuilding is that Tolkien and Jordan both focus a LOT of their worldbuilding on the history of the world, while in Stormlight focuses most of his worldbuilding on the natural world and how the magic interacts with the landscape and life on the planet. If what you look for in the worldbuilding is history, than yes I think Stormlight falls short in comparison to wheel of time, but I think the overall worldbuilding is comparable in quality
31:15 I feel like Kaladin's arc in this book is a perfect example of Sanderson making a character hate-able. I finished the book about a week ago and I would say for a large portion of the book I was not rooting for Kaladin. I think for nearly 3/4s we were watching a hero unravel, as the reader I felt more and more frustrated listening to Kaladin. While I was reading the duel scene I was constantly anticipating the line where Kaladin would jump in and save the day. It felt so satisfying when he finally did not just because it was written so well but there was also the thought that maybe Kaladin had truly lost his heroic instincts. The only complaint I had was Syl's depth was very meh but that was definitely the turning point where you start to root for Kaladin again.
I agree, that the Moash character could have been improved. Perhaps include him in the Teft, Rock, plot points or to have them connect in book one to become friends. Just something more for Moash.
Just discovered you and i already love what you're doing. Thank you and keep up please dont stop 😂❤
Thank you!!
Just finished WoR last night so I had to give this a watch
Enjoy the content! My biggest gripe with the book was the Lift interlude. I am half way through edgedancer now and it is tolerable but she is still the worst part of the story. Maybe it gets even better in the back half. But it was pulling teeth to get through the interlude so I could get back to the awesome story I was trying to read.
I heard someone call Lift the Jar Jar Binks of stormlight and I couldn't think of a more apt description. Awesomeness is cringe.
Also Richard is bad.
Thanks a lot. I (Richard) am a stormlight jar jar fan now 🤣
@@2ToRamble I finished Edgedancer. She has definitely improved as a character, only just started Oathbringer and her story hasnt come up yet but she is growing on me like Shallan did in words of radiance the more I think about her.
@@DalmathusLift is fascinating because of how she is running from her issues. The dialogue itself reflects this, and that's what makes her sections great. The issue is that her juvenile sense of humor is very polarizing. I personally love her, but I understand why others don't.
Richard is BAD!!! Really like the long videos, keep up the GREAT work.
Thank you!
Speaking of roller coaster emotions authors take you on with characters... Joe Abercrombie with Logan nine fingers!
Excited to hear your thoughts on Oathbringer!
Glad to hear it. It won't be as long a wait as last time😂
Hey guys, just wanted to say, just like the Way of Kings book review I waited for this one, but at least I came into this one expecting Richard to disappoint me.
This is my all time favorite book nothing else to say
Btw just found ur content stuff is great and I like the long videos
You may also like empire of silence by christopher ruocchio then!
Lets goooo been waiting on this one!!
🙏
Just finished the spoiler free review see yall at the end!
See you at the end!
I’m kinda partially more on Richard’s side for this this one, especially in world building. Like I know eventually all this info is out there. But I have to admit I really at this point struggle to understand the history of the desolations and the void bringers, what exactly is really is the deal with the Parshmen and Parshendi? I do not understand how they are voidbringers? And now I just read first chapter of Oathbringer from Eshonai, I’m actually a little more confused what is her motivations? Maybe I’m missing something and need a primer.
The history thing regarding the reset to the Stone Age and how little we know of the Bronze Age, that’s still 5000 years, and while it was originally just like men’s glyphs, we still ended up with tons of information, and the fact this world has basically email, written records about other cultures and places must be so easy to access.
Still, it was absolutely unbeatable in character and plot! That was amazing and Shallan is now my favorite by far in how assertive and clever and creative with her talents she became even early on
Oathbringer review better be 2 hours! There’s so much that happens in book 3
Newcomer to y’all’s channel, im a fan. I like that there are two perspectives: one that’s reads lots of fantasy and one that’s discovering new reads.
But the name butchering is unforgivable 😂😉
😂😂. Thank you for watching!! Welcome to the channel 👊
I see the history and the culture as just another thing that will be referenced through out the rest of the books. The history as someone said before is still being discovered. The deeper history of cosmere like during the shadow days what happened. How did roshar come to be and how did the heralds make up the 10 silver kingdoms. With that and probably book 5 we should have some answers. Also Richard is bad
Just finished way of kings
The David Gemmel awards haven't been awarded in 5ish years.
I just finished the book an hour, seven minutes and twenty seconds ago. How dare you assume I don't enjoy watching the stormlight discussions till the end haha
Anyways, I really try hard to not hand out a 5/5 stars or 10/10 because of listening to your reviews, but I couldn't help by marking this as a 5 star on goodreads (more so because 4/5 just sounds terrible and I wish goodreads did their ratings out of 10). Though the more specific score would be a solid 9/10, I just couldn't give it a 4/5 because it feels wrong lol I'll most likely change it but I think since everything is so fresh in my mind, i can't help but give it a 5/5 on goodreads.
I will say though, Richie gives some really, really good arguments when it comes to world building that I totally agree with. I try to rate all the books I read more so on an objective level and try to leave preferences out of the way to a certain degree... but considering that this is to be a 10 book series, I'm willing to give the world building aspect a higher rating because even though I don't understand completely the why/how, I do feel truly in awe when I'm sitting down and reading through the book. And considering that you guys say a lot of those world building questions get answered in the next and fourth book, I will give it a higher rating now because I think Sanderson may intend just for us to be emotionally attached and engrossed by the world, that he's not concerned about giving us the why and how just yet. If the series was only four or five books long then yeah I'd say he should definitely change and add some of those history elements within the first two books, but because there's gonna be 8 more books after Words of Radiance, I think the intention may be just to immerse yourself in the world first and I think sanderson really does just that, so that by the end of this book, you are now putting a lot of the things together and asking the why and how... if that makes sense.
Love ya guys I just can't wait till Sanderson has the privilege to be interviewed by you two lol
Appreciate this comment, and thank you for boosting out egos at the end lol
SPOILER WARNING (if you're someone who just wanted to watch the spoiler free part and then check out the comments, don't read this one now ! Finish the book first !)
I liked Shallan's backstory but I don't agree with them being so much better than the others... Maybe because I guessed from the very first one that she was actually the one who killed her mother ? And also because I've read other books which treat about abuse so it didn't stood out to me as much. But the scene when she killed her father was very gripping for me : since I already thought she was the one who killed the mother and he had been protecting her it was so tragic, especially with her singing the song he song to her that night... so sad !
You guys are the best!
Ahhh thank you!
6:13 which of the 5 perfect scenes are you talking about?😂😂
True 😂
love your videos!
Thanks you. So glad you like them.
Just finished it at 5:30 this morning 😅 WTF IS NIGHTBLOOD DOING IN ROSHAR?!?!?!
Great video guys! Have you heard of/read the nevernight chronicles?
Thank you! And they ring a bell, but we haven’t read - what are they about?
@2 To Ramble Great fantasy series about a world in which there are 3 suns that very rarely ever set and a girl that draws power from the dark who is trying to avenge her family. Highly rate it and would definitely recommend to you guys 👍
@@sambarker7044 On the TBR - thank you for the recommendation!
I feel like Tolkien’s writing, including his prose, characterization, worldbuilding, etc. are the gold standard for a particular audience in the mid-twentieth century. Brandon does all of those in a more easily digestible way for modern audiences. I don’t think it’s fair to say his worldbuilding doesn’t explicitly go as deep into the history of his world because that’s not what he tries to accomplish with his writing.
Good points!
Love your guy's content! One of the most interesting book review channels out there. Have either of you read anything else in the Cosmere? Aside from Brandon Sanderson, what other series have your both read?
Thank you! Most of the books behind us Richard has read - and as far as the Cosmere goes we have read Warbreaker, Emperor’s Soul, and Rich has read Mistborn and a few more I believe. But still lots to read in the fantasy genre so if you have any suggestions for us anytime let us know!
@@2ToRamble I definitely recommend continuing with the Cosmere. Mistborn is an excellent series and I personally like Era 1 better than anything else in the Cosmere. It is what got me back in to reading. Next I would recommend Lies of Lock Lamora. It is the first book in an unfinished series where the author is taking a long time to finnish, but I still think that it is well worth the read. If you want a series that is completed, I love the Powder Mage series. Rich's pitch video of the series is what hooked me on you guys! Give it a go and then read the second trilogy together.
Rich is more familiar an well read so he likely is on top of this - but I’ll keep all these in mind, thank you!
Im out on game of thrones. The shows ending on hbo was perfectly sufficient. I had no issues with how it wrapped.
why is Sadeas getting killed not supposed to feel cathartic?
The longer the better!
I want to get into fantasy, I’ve been choosing between The Lord of The Rings, ASOIAF, and Stormlight Archive. I’ve seen how highly rated the SA books are and that really intrigues me. Also it seems like a very interesting world. The reason why I would choose Lord of the Rings is that I’ve watched the trilogy like 3 times, and I love it, so I’d assume it would be an easier read. Also, everyone has watched GoT. The best show ever made. It would be really cool when SA gets adapted to HBO or netflix and I’m sitting here like “yeah… I’m cool because I read the books already”😎
Which series would you recommend reading first?
You can’t go wrong with these choices! I (austin) would only recommend being careful of starting ASOIAF because we don’t know if the series will get finished. Lord of the Rings as you know is completed and if you want to read the GOAT that started it all and see the interesting differences between the films and books, definitely give it a go - the books give a whole new meaning and perspective to the story (books and films are just perfect - so much to get out of them). But if you want a more modern read where you don’t know where the story is going (because ofc you know what happens in LOTR) - I’d say now is a great time to start before book 5 comes out next year!
@@2ToRamblethis is a well thought out explanation on which series to choose to get into. Probably the exact same thing I would say
Quick tip guys. Raise the volume of your audio. I can barely hear you guys at work with my headphones at max.
Ah, thank you! We have changed audio settings since this episode - maybe the more recent videos are better? Let us know if it’s fixed 👍