Why Starliner is NOT SAFE to Return Astronauts from the ISS!
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
- The Starliner has several leaks from one of its high-pressure helium manifolds, and while it was able to dock with the ISS, it should NOT be trusted to bring our astronauts safely home! China is on the far side of the Moon sending back samples, while America is risking the lives of its astronauts unnecessarily. The Terran Space Academy's analysis shows that the only safe option is to return the astronauts on Dragon or Soyuz, before we have another deadly catastrophe in American spaceflight.
Credit SpaceX, ULA, Boeing, NASA, PBS, Space.com, Hazegrayart
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if anything happens , these 2 astronauts were NOT suicidal.
Just brave...
One could argue that getting in a Boeing space vehicle that has had so many problems and was launched with known issues to try and save some face.... is a clear sign of being suicidal. Perhaps they felt they had no choice now... I note they didn't blow any whistles before they left. Or did they....
@@phedders Very good question!
@@pheddersyou had me at Boing…😒
Well that didn't work the last time Boeing was involved so....
Even though SpaceX made history, the mainstream media's reporting of this history making event was rather sparse or even overly critical. On the other hand they were gushing positive Starliner news and reporting live during the Starliner docking sequence, which happened to be at essentially the same time as the history making Starship double soft landing attempts, and successes.
I would imagine that the attention was on Starliner because it was manned, when starship goes up with a crew you can bet the media will pay attention.
Once you see the hypocrisy, it is imposible to not see it.
First manned flight vs fourth unmanned test. Starship was more impressive but Starliner was more important.
@@patricklewis7636 How was Starship successful ? Four tests, four lost heavy booster/Starship. A flying dust bin vs a manned crew that docked with the iss.
They weee covering the StarLiner in case it failed. The only good news is bad news.
I agree with your take on the Starliner crew staying on the ISS until they can return on another craft and bring back the liner under remote programming. Why risk it any other way. Pride needs to take a back seat with this.
We agree Mark.
This vid is completely right. We can't send these 2 heroes back to earth in a broken ship. Haven't we learned our lessons yet? Let E L. handle it. Bring up a Falcon..
The DOOMLINER is a disaster in the waiting, I hope NASA acts responsibly.
If BOEING has a small problem, the passengers have a big one
NASA looks best if this thing is a success, especially after giving Boeing more money than SpaceX initially.
That’s the crappy part, it’s in their best interest to ride it out. 🫤
It would be nice to have a domestic method for ISS re-boost though, that is a legitimate concern.
clearly long time politcal and business cronies keeping this ancient effort alive for $$$.
It's just a "door plug" what could go wrong?
dude , don't be such a killjoy , we have to celebrate the successful launch and docking of Boeing crewed space capsule . Now America has a backup plan to launch or bring astronauts back to earth in the case SpaceX would be "incapacitated " . It's better that flaws show up early rather than years later when everybody is off guard
@@tunkunrunk……..🙄🤣
So many leaks in the helium pressurization system implies both poor workmanship and poor acceptance testing.
Maybe it sat too long... Seals need to function or they contract sometimes.
I think it's just a bad design of the valves redo the whole system before they perish!
Seems like Boeing's quality control manufacture, testing & validation have been corrupted by insane profit motivations where "good enough" is their corporate goal. Boeing needs to fire all their inept corporate hierarchy & restructure their new hires with QUALITY Precision as job 1. Apparently the 737 Max MCAS horrendous debacle was one of several hidden "train wrecks" waiting to blast on scene. There is no way that software will bridge alleged corporate malfeasance.
The lowest bid got the job.
Boeing's diversity hiring is showing results
You are correct. The risk is unacceptable. If they try to return starliner with crew and astronauts die then someone should go to jail. I watched the starliner crew board ISS and their relief was clearly visible, almost uncontrollable. This capsule must not be used to return crew. I hope NASA makes the safe decision.
They were so uncomfortable the crew took a nap on the way up.
We don't know the state of their sleep. They were scheduled to sleep and so of course they have to follow the schedule. But if you look at their faces and body language when they entered ISS they were clearly relieved.
They need to add a whole wing to the jail for all the Boeing people who deserve to be in there.
@@maq6144 probably cramped space ... i see those capsules being a bit small.. strapped to a seat and not much space for anything else
@@loudelk99Which they ended early so the crew could help with troubleshooting…
"starliner" is an artifact from a different era. Their organizational structure, culture and overall execution capabilities have been eclipsed by modern SpaceX.
Indeed. Not Apollo or SpaceX but that dead zone in between...
Do you have any idea how many rocket explosions and spacecraft anomalies Spacex has observed over the last decade??? Take a guess
@@element720 They just completed thier 300th launch. Not bad for a non Government funded space program. I'll take SpaceX over Boeing.
I want to see several more Statship tests before people board it.
@gryph01 I'm a big SpaceX fan, and am totally amazed by that last flight, but I think I needs a lot more then a few flights until they stick people on it. Even if a person could have maybe survived that last landing.
Spacex to the rescue ? Bring the astronauts back to earth alive !!!
really, they need amother docking port up there and a capsule and crew on stand by in case of any emergency that may arise 🤔
Not practical. The connections between the vehicle and suit are vastly different between the NASA suit and the SpaceX suit. Plus right now the SpaceX suits are individually tailored so it would not even be possible to send up new suits for the 2 NASA astronauts to use to come home. Nope! The only way those 2 are coming home is in the vehicle they came in. All we can do is wish them luck.
@billmullins6833 Oh yeah, because it's so hard to just ask Boeing for their tailoring measurements and craft suits for them in 6 months. Rather send them home in a death trap than wait 6 months and send them home in a safe capsule 😂😂
We should start a movement!
They need a Dream Chaser crew vehicle on standby... Fly anytime and land on any runway.
They're American heroes alright. Anybody who'd voluntarily ride to space on a Boeing product are deserving of a Congressional Medal of Honor.
Or a Darwin award...
Or a straight jacket
How about all of the above?
Or a stalk of bananas.
They deserve better than good enough
It always bothered me that NASA insisted that Crew Dragon only lands on the water but Starliner is allowed the ability to land on land.
I never asked about this from anyone but it still bothers me.
If I recall correctly, it was a decision made by SpaceX because it would’ve taken too long to human rate the land landing system, and it was easier and faster to go with the water landing.
Space-X wanted to do propulsive landing and NASA didn't like the idea (they initially didn't even want to have parachutes at all, lol). Starliner uses big airbags instead of rockets. It was Space-X's decision.
@@takanara7it's also got small retro rockets like on the BO New Sheppard, to slow it down softly at the last second.
@@mbmurphy777It was definitely NASA'S decision to go with a water landing. Check the historical facts.
I think SpaceX should start landing cargo Dragons propusively to prove the technology.
I fn love your style of narration man, it's a throw back to the 1960s golden years of spaceflight. Keep up the good work, from a fan in Australia.
Will do my friend from down under! I have visited once but still miss the beauty of Sydney.
Starliner is built by Boeing for more than double the cost of the dragon. What could possibly go wrong?
Nothing that can't be fixed by giving Boeing even more money.
And launched by old Soviet engine that they probably get for 100 liters off vodka
Thanks for showing all of the intricate details about how the pressure fed system works with helium!
The debrief sessions gave some details, but the high-level overview helps to put everything into perspective
You are most welcome my friend.
This is going to be embarrassing if SpaceX has to come and rescue these astronauts from their Starliner flight. I'm not at all surprised by this. These people cannot stop screwing up.
Not possible!
Indeed. But I'll take embarrassing over heartbreaking any day...
@@billmullins6833SpaceX capsule is fully automated. They can send it up with some additional supplies and bring them back. Then the starliner capsule can be released and sent back empty.
Starliner should not have been cleared to launch with a know helium leak.
@@billmullins6833it’s not possible to embarrass a company without shame such as Boing? Is that what you’re saying…? If not, care to explain? You have me on the edge of my seat wondering what you could possibly mean by that…🤔
id feel safer riding super heavy back to the gulf than i would riding starliner
You can’t “ride a super heavy” back to the gulf, on the return it’s just a regular F9 lol, pick a booster.
Also they still reach 6g deceleration in spite of being nowhere near orbital velocities (as in, you wouldn’t even really be in space.)
An F9 could never even remotely return from orbital velocities - even as a joke, it doesn’t make sense lol.
@@EstorilEm"Super heavy" means the booster paired with Starship.
Also, super heavy clears well above 100km, so, it has been in space without any doubt.
Hey! Don't say we can't ride Super Heavy! I saw Tommy Lee Jones ride one to the Moon! (Or something like that)
@@EstorilEmright dafuq over your head there, eh bud….?🙄🤷🏾♂️
@@parkershaw8529that’s right! If Jeff Bozo’s customers can be lauded as “astronauts” for riding his rocket propelled pogo stick, then riding a SpaceX booster ironically should also count…😒
Come on SpaceX…….. offer to rescue our astronauts for free. You’ll make 10X more for it later .
😎
They won't make 10 times more later, because whether they perform the rescue or not they are going to end up being the dominate US space access provider, and if ULA and BO don't seriously step up their game, SpaceX may be the only one.
You can not rescue someone who does not need rescue and who has not asked for it.
These problems are by all accounts small problems that are not mission critical. It is just such a good story now due to all the other problems that Boeing has faced.
The unpopular truth is that spacecrafts are extremely complex, and that small issues happen all the time. And yes that also includes SpaceX.
SpaceX does just not have the openness and the spotlight that Boeing has right now (due to prior mistakes).
NASA won't accept it, but Elon should make the offer anyway so NASA will be on record as turning down the rescue.
Send Starliner back unmanned (womaned) with 400 Lbs. of ISS trash. See how that goes before risking lives. Give these 2 astronauts Kudos for getting on that thing in the 1st. place. # Apollo1..
Ever notice that these types of major problems rarely happened with manned vehicles?
Maybe we should find a new word that Boeing can't misinterpret as "crude vehicle".
Thanks for saying what many reasonable people have been thinking! Stay bold!
My issue with this is the pre-launch press briefing. They discussed in detail the risk mitigation of the seal issue, as well as talking to the manufacturer about the seal “batches” and how they intentionally avoid using all seals from one batch in redundant systems to avoid a single-point failure, etc. They believed they had it nailed down to a single seal, wasn’t going to be a big deal. They were VERY wrong about a VERY important element of the vehicle. It clearly wasn’t scientific, it was an assumption to justify a launch ASAP.
To have THIS MANY leaks (post launch, when lives are on the line) is bad enough, but to have them after risk-mitigation measures were already undertaken AND “understood” - with the go-ahead being given, is simply ABSURD.
This is “get-there-itis” at its best, and classic Boeing. I know it’s NASA’s call, but we know that’s not how it really works, especially with the unbelievably terrible press that Starliner has been getting (justifiably so.) It’s another 737 MAX for them. This thing HAD to fly - it was making NASA look bad as well, so it was in everyone’s interest to launch.
Except it didn’t pan out, and they shot themselves in the foot yet again.
Lucky for them, the media doesn’t really care about this stuff (till it results in a disaster) - it launched, they’re safely at the ISS, news cycle is over.
If the single leak had persisted I would not be so worried. Three new ones in flight and its time to stand down.
If protocol was followed, i.e. to use components from different manufacturing runs, these multiple faults must point to a design problem, either in the valves, the manufacturing methods and/or methods of quality verification.
I think you are right about starliner, it should never have flown with known flaws.
They should have had their contract pulled almost 2 years ago…😒
That ship has more leaks than a sieve. Boeing quality personified
It's honestly such a joke.
@@takanara7 it's embarrassing
Far as i read the gas leak was discovered before the lift off and the ship was examined and cleared to fly. Every system on the starliner is operating perfectly with the exception of one or 2 gas leaks. The Soyuz has gas leaks as a matter of course yet no one say a word. I worked at Boeing for 25 years and there isn't one of their products I wouldn't be willing to fly on.
The only shit ship more leaky is Trump.
I'd make screen door on a submarine jokes if it wasn't so serious.
This spacecraft bothers me. I fear for anyone riding in it.
We do too... It has never had a flight without serious problems that could end the mission catastrophically.
@@terranspaceacademy
There’s possibly another solution to fix starliner while in flight on the station. Likely an Eva of some sorts just to fix the leaks.
But I don’t know the heat shield is damaged. But I hope starliner does return home and likely have the starliner project fall into the hands of someone like Lockheed Martin which also worked with Boeing on a few projects.
Starliner seems to be working fine… but there’s a lot of room for improvement until it’s properly ready to fly again.
But one thing is certain, the atlas program had its first crewed flight since the 1960’s. And I’m at least happy with that.
For now…. We wait.
The situation for me is like Apollo 13 but it’s closer to home.
But in the terms of the situation, it’s just another reminder to everyone that space is hard, that doesn’t mean it’s impossible
@goldgamercommenting2990 this Atlas is nothing like the 60s version,, mainly it uses Russian engines
Dream chaser is on the way
Ya. But the first one is not human rated. Only for cargo.
yes, have that baby on stand by .... for exactly such incidents, repairs or retrievals of craft and or crew ✊ 😑
NASA missed the boat on that one.
@@terranspaceacademy dragon is great for cargo and transport but it’s not able to boost stations orbit which star-liner was suppose be able to do. (I am hoping dream chaser works well )
@@jamskinner Yep sounds like Dragon..an if it fails no one gets to die..or would that be DEI on Starliner
I really appreciate the way you were able to explain the helium system/ leaks and possible consequences. Thank you
Starliner is a total shitshow.
STAY-liner.
It is indeed so far... The sunk cost fallacy on full display.
Unless they can test the valve manifold and thrusters in space, there is no way in hell they should bring back Astraunauts using StarLiner. It should still be in the testing phase at this time.
impossible to do that when docked, maybe they can remotely undock, test, redock - but that's a whole lotta risk
@@lolbots I totally agree however, all of the tests should have been done before it ever went into space. I risk is just too great to allow astronauts to fly StarLiner back into the atmosphere.
I got dressed down by a guy claiming to be a former SpaceX maintenance engineer and a current NASA engineer, on another channel. Your video is so well done I doubt he will have anything to say here. On the matter of the sleep cycle. It was cut short to allow time for them to close two values. Now they have closed the closed the helium mainline value. Do you know whether they are going to attempt a repair while on orbit? It sure seems like there must have been some cost cutting on the helium side of the manifold. All I said was I felt there was a failure of QR testing on the part of Boeing. Makes me wonder if it was turned over to this guy at NASA and that's why he got so defensive.
😂
It is difficult to repair a helium leak on orbit. Helium is the 2nd smallest atom, is totally inert (cannot join molecules), has zero "stickiness" (viscosity) and can leak through the smallest, most microscopic crack imaginable in a container.
It's not like repairing a leaky faucet in your kitchen.
@@petergibson2318I'm well aware of that, thanks. I did study chemistry in college. What's the molarity of Helium in a vacuum? "In a near vacuum, helium gas is easily released from the surface of the wall due to its small desorption activation energy of 590 J/mol-1. This means that helium gas is not significantly trapped in vacuum vessels." Is that what you mean?
Still, it seems like they tried tightening those flanges and it makes me wonder if they are using compression rings and the vibration keeps loosening the joints. It's not like astronauts haven't done stuff like this before. Yeah right, just whip out the Teflon tape and crescent wrench in micro-gravity, LMAO. As a diy'er, I really get tired of drips under presser, pun intended.
@@OldBillOverHill Sit down and relax Old Bill. You might burst a blood-vessel if your blood-pressure goes any higher. You need to take care of yourself when you are Over the Hill.
@@petergibson2318 Man, you sure can't have any fun with you kids anymore. Is that the best you can do? I expect something a little more intellectual. Like molality and molarity aren't the same and gases in solution are better measured by molality. It was a little too sophisticated of bait I guess I expect too much these days. Typical X response. LMAO Thanks again for the entertainment.🤣😂😅
I feel like these 2 astronauts are like the crew of the Columbia in orbit after the insulation had struck the wing. Hopefully this won't be a repeat of Columbia.
Agreed...
I wonder if the astronauts will speak funny on re entry because of the helium leak……
😂
New landing footage of spacx starship booster in the ocea. Was spot on!!
Amazing wasn't it! Gives me hope!
Great video! I like how you gave the background of the launch vehicle and engines.
I agree, it’s not worth risking the lives of the two astronauts on Starliner.
Indeed. The test is the same if it comes back uncrewed.
Another fantastic and informative video.
Thank you so much Dean!
I think calling them heroes is a bit much. But then again they did get on Starliner. Maybe brave would be a better word? I see it as them just doing their job.
I would have gotten on but there would have been a lot of sobbing involved :-)
Agreed. The word hero is thrown around far too loosely these days, too often in reference to people doing literally what they were trained to do.
Excellent stuff bro
Thank you so much Clarence!
Daughter of aeronautical engineers here. If there are leaks in that manifold--in any part of it, m any valve, there's a flaw in the manufacturing of it that will continue to cause problems time after time. Figure it out NOW. My mother figured out why the C-54s first manufactured at the plant where she was in charge of quality control had . failures--(component sent there by another plant came in flawed) With Boeing's other difficulties, this hydrogen leak thing cannot be ignored. When this one comes back--ideally, I agree, without crew--that entire engine needs to be taken down and every component retested. My mom found the flaw in the firewall of the C-54 by halting production, tearing down the almost completed plane...and there the flaw was detectable with the crude instrumentation of the 1940s. The fact that leaks were occurring on the ground before liftoff almost ensured that the forces on the craft would result in more later. We all want good, reliable liftoff/landing craft, but we do not want half-assed designs, hurried safety/performance checks.
Agreed. And kudos to your mom. At this point I don't think the seals were able to survive the long delay between construction and flight. By necessity, seals are made to operate during functional operation. If the best car sat for ten years without operating you would need to replace a lot of parts on your first trip.
@@terranspaceacademy The first car I ever "owned" was a '49 Caddy that had been sitting in a garage up on blocks for well over a decade when my mom bought it as a college graduation gift in 1968. $150. Under instruction from a good mechanic, I nursed her back into motion, crawling around town for a week, at 5, then 1o, 15 mph then normal town speed, then on back farm roads at 40...then 45...then 50. Leaked like a colander, yes. When I finally got her up to highway speed, she was smooth as silk and floated. She was never going to be my permanent car--gas mileage and oil use was prohibitive. But my clever mom had a buyer already for her, and I left her behind in Texas when I left for Virginia. Old-fashioned yacht of a car, but incredible headroom, huge back seat room. She went to a family of 5 kids...room for all in that thing. Guy was an airplane mechanic; i heard later he replaced enough parts she ran clean, not just smooth. He was nursemaid to a corporate DC-3, too.
4:32
To be a bit pedantic the RD-170 still flew a bunch of times under the name off the RD-171 (only real difference was that it could gimble on two axis rather than just one like RD-170) as the first stage engine of the Zenit launch system, so it wasn't really retired.
Energia was also intended to be partly reusable from the very start, with its boosters landing sideways on the Kazakh steppe using a mixture of parachutes, retro rockets and landings legs (the two big dark gray compartments on the side of the booster contained the landing hardware). But during its two only flights the landing hardware was replaced with various telemetry instruments hence it never were able to test this capability (first test would have been the third flight if it ever flew). You can read about this in the book "Energiya-Buran: The Soviet Space Shuttle" by Bart Hendrickx if you're interested in exactly how this would have worked out.
That's a very good point... I need a Zenit lesson. I haven't looked at them since Sea Launch folded. Thank you!
Hopefully NASA will make the safer choice to send Falcon 9 up to return the astronauts. Safety first NASA. Please 🙏
Elon should volunteer a Dragon if NASA is too cheap, he can afford it, and we cannot afford to lose those heroes.
@@terranspaceacademy I disagree. Elon should not pay for it. The Boeing fat cat bean counters should pay for it. The whole Starliner project from start to finish reeks of bloated costs and inefficiency, milking the taxpayers. NASA needs to grow up and face reality.
Boeing and NASA should pay. They are responsible for the fiasco. The rescuers should be paid. If I may vent a moment. I'm getting a little sick of hearing people dump on Elon. You should thank your lucky stars that you are alive while this guy is doing his thing. Here's my point. When it comes to engineering, engineers and objective, leadership is key. Certainly there are fine engineers working on Starliner. I do not doubt that. Actually the best of them probably feel handcuffed. If they were led by Elon Musk, and not bean counters, you would have a different result. If there is blame it is on the financial leadership, nto the engineers. IMO
Starliner is the Oceangate of Spacecraft
Oh I hope not! That was truly tragic.
I'm curious to learn where the "Terran Space Academy" is produced. It provides a very balanced as well as well-informed perspective on space flight. It's too unbiased and subtle to be an American production. Great video. Thank you.
Thank you Phillip.
An unsafe product from modern day Boeing? Who could have guessed? 😂
I'm shocked! SHOCKED I say! :-)
Starliner astronauts need to wait till the next dragon rotation and come back on dragon. The Starliner can come back automatically. The astronauts can put their lucky rabbits foot on Starliner before attempting to return to earth.
We agree Johnnie.
But how cramped is up on the ISS as the Starliner joked on where they were going to sleep on it. Plus the food supply etc to feed the extra two now on ISS. Maybe the Starliner crew took up some food and supplies?
@@MissX905 I would rather skip few dinners then burn in space
Your presentation expresses what the whole planet would wish to be a reference leading to a difficult and controversial decision to let go the Starliner float away from the ISS and without any passengers on board let it burn on a controlled re-entry.
I watched all of your presentations about the Starliner and I consider that you present a guiding light of the most important factors to be considered in this extremely difficult decision that has to be made in the coming hours. Let the thing go and burn, this spacecraft is not safe and every extra second it is attaches to the ISS puts the crew at a very high of dying due to the high probability of a catastrophic explosion of the Starliner leading to the total destruction of the International Space Station.
Your presentations are soooo well documented. You possess an exceptional talent at conceiving, assembling/creating pure jewels.
Thank you Robert.
Brilliantly done, from script to post-production. An EASY: subscribe, alert set, like and a comment of praise for the creators!
Well done!!
Thank you so much! Let us know if you have a particular topic of interest.
Well, If the Starliner crew does come back on Dragon or more embarrassingly on Soyuz...and the empty Starliner has a catastrophic failure coming back.....Gee...how many "Early retirements and resignations" will there be at Boeing?
Boeing, Wow...a legacy aerospace company in the United States, Maker of the B-17, 747... way back when....held hostage by suits pushing the bottom line and stock value (What will that value be if this goes tits up?)
Well, let the Starliner crew chill at the ISS for a later flight back and fingers crossed that the over-budget, under-performing Starliner returns intact.
If they do the safe thing there's no reason for heads to roll. If they force it like the did Challenger. It's jail time.
My dude. Thanks for uploading another good video. Food for thought! Ad astra pot terra.
Thank you my friend! Feeling snacky? :-)
@@terranspaceacademy Always! lol
Superb thank you.
You are most welcome!
Great video...👍
SpaceX is an example of a company run by engineers, not by a bunch of MBA's. They only hire young ambitious engineers. And at the helm is Elon guiding all those talented engineers.
Into an Abyss of bankruptcy.
I don't see the use for Starliner, especially given it's glacial pace of progress. By the time they get it fully operational, if they ever do, there will be little or nothing it can do that someone else isn't doing more cheaply and more reliably.
Boeing has already stated they will only be completing the current 6 contracted launches and then retiring the capsule. They lost billions on Starliner and there is no launch vehicle after those 6 launches.
@JessiBear
I have not seen them say that.
The main reason for Starliner is to get the Boeing management lots of bonuses and the shareholders some dividends. It turns out that the management is totally incompetent, but that won't stop their bonuses. As long as they make money, they don't care about the lives of the astronauts.
Boeing probably banking on Space Force deep pockets, Boeing has a lifetime of obtaining defence contracts, it's baked into every cake they make.
Very true... At least SLS can lob an Orion to the Moon.
Thank you for the additional details. I am really inclined to agree. Too me the whole Starliner project was NASA: ego building and self interest. I think that the amount of money wasted on this project could likely have the Spacex Starship Sittin' Pretty on the moon right now!!! P.S. To all the Scientists and Techs involved in the Starship, who honestly were giving their all to the project, I do not fault you in this. It's just too much pride, greed & arrogance on the part of an arrogant few.
Good point. Cheers. 😎
Thank you Tony!
That is the Starliner 737.
I worked on the 737 line in Renton for over 15 years. The aircraft has one of the best safety records of any airliner in service.
@@loudelk99 Boeing had a great safety record. Emphasis on 'had'.
@@davidellis2021 Still does, do you know how many boeing planes take off and land daily without incident? What cracks me up is the attention given to planes that have been flying for over 10 years. Planes that old are the responsiblity of the operating airline, not the company.
@@loudelk99 Two MAX crashes within months of service entry. Almost 350 people dead. Planes grounded for almost two years while Boeing 'fixed' the error while denying they were at fault. Production issues so bad doors fly off in flight and the USAF rejects planes for service as they find foreign objects floating around. Shame, used to be a great company with great products and great engineers.
@@loudelk99 you are amazing, sir.
Where is International Rescue when you need them?
lol, I just watched the 1980s anime Thunderbirds 2086
Space-X should be easily able to get a crew dragon up there. Or they can just chill out on the station for a while.
Yeah their fine the iss has nearly infinite supplies by different vehicles. Spacex could send a rescue capsule up fairy quickly
Let's hear if for the Thunder Dragon! Oh... I like that.
Let’s not forget the dream chaser from sierra mini shuttle is coming online as well
I think it has the potential to be much better than Starliner
The astronauts looked scared when they left.😢
You are not the only one to make that remark.
I can't see how Star Ship could ever be man rated
Do you not remember Sputnik…this is how it grows ….how old are you…. geezz
Well hold on to your incredulity, and watch the show, because I’m a few yrs you will see precisely how!
There will need to be a lot of cargo flights and still...
it amuses me to hear people say that the Starliner may be "unsafe" when we have been flying Russian ships to and from the Station for years. By our standards the Soyuz is a marginal ship, but we still use it.
Soyuz had 50 years of basically 100% reliability though
NASA = Never A Safe Astronaut
@@tedarcher9120 No it doesn't. We have seen the Soyuz crash and burn on several occasions.
Soyuz is statisticslly the most reliable, most used, and overall most successfull human space capsule in history. What are you talking about?
@@loudelk99 you mean the rocket? Yes, that's why the spacecraft has an escape system. Nobody was ever hurt
Look at the bright side… the Starliner door did not fall off when miles about the ground.
That's true!
If I were them I would refuse orders to get back in the capsule. I would become the 1st human space trespasser and stay on the ISS until they can send me a safe ride home.
But you don't know the truth. You only watched a you-tube video. Now you are an expert?
I don't think they are reporting false problems... If anything it is worse than we know.
What's the option? Wait until we can all fly there and see?
Absolutely, the Starliner has had too many issues to ignore. As an alternative to Dragon, I hope the 2nd version of Sierra Space's spaceplane (they say it could be crew rated in the future) gets up and running soon, and I hope it's safer than the Starliner. Can't wait for Dreamchaser's first launch, it's supposed to be on my birthday but I doubt it will actually launch then
Sierra Space is doing some amazing stuff! Dream Chaser should absolutely have a reserved parking spot @ ISS for incidentals. Whatever happens I just hope that we get a chance to see starship attached to iss bc that chit would look absolutely hilarious!
I think even the Europeans will have something up before Starliner is safe.
Amazing as always love this channel and great tie in from the beginning of the vid to the end. I agree I think starliner should have been retested before this flight I am concerned for the astronauts.
Thank you so much Ed! We appreciate you!
Good video. So many today are AI generated, narrated and published without benefit of editing this was very refreshing. Subscribed, liked and commented.
I know. It makes it hard to get a chance with so much chaffe and we appreciate you. Welcome aboard.
I sincerely hope these folks can get back home safely. I wouldn't trust Boeing to make my bed.
We do too.
Re helium leaks - Risk Analysis needed.
1. What exactly are the risks / potential failures?
2. What are the impacts of each risk if realized?
3. Which impacts are acceptable; which are unacceptable?
4. Can all unacceptable risks be fully mitigated?
(In this analysis, would not look at probabilities of risks with unacceptable impact being realized, because any possibility is unacceptable where an alternative without such risks is available.)
NASA already noted that it could have resulted in a "mission ending" failure that threatened crew lives.
Agree with this posit or not, many thnks and KUDOS for using a live person to do the voiceover instead of that crappy computer generated stuff.
You are most welcome
This was a great episode to clear up my understanding about the nature of the helium leaks. They are truly horrifying despite the narrative that they are ‘small’ leaks! I agree the two astronauts that arrived on the Starliner should not take the risk to return on the Starliner, no matter how much it embarresses Boeing!
The helium leaks are not horrifying. You made that up.
Well if I was on a ship with a high pressure leak of any kind I would be horrified. The potential for disaster is too high.
NASA needs to hire Dollar Tree. You never hear of them having problems with their helium system! lol
:-)
Agree with presentation here. They should effect rescue of Starliner via Space X. This is what redundancy is for right? Safety and getting the astronauts back to Earth in one piece should be the overriding concern. Hope all goes well.
We do to Kristofer... A lot is at stake.
I am in 100% agreement that the Starliner crew need another way home. However, I seriously doubt Boeing's CEO would ever let that happen considering his prioritizing stock prices over lives. Just the fact that they launched with so many known problems is proof of that.
NASA needs to ground Starliner, again, and force them to redesign the capsule to a standard worthy of the billions of dollars they have been paid to make a safe, cost effective, capsule. The estimated price per seat of Starliner should have been grounds to never consider it in the first place.
The most likely best option, Sierra Space and Dream Chaser should be awarded some more development funding, taken from Boeing's billions. The Dream Chaser has the potential to not only delivery cargo and crew, but also functions we likely don't know about yet. Having two vehicles that cover a wider range of functionality would be so much better than having two that do the exact same thing.
We agree. The decision should be out of his hands.
I have asked others without a reply--could Argon be used instead of helium? It's a noble gas and has a larger atom compared to helium. It's less prone to leakage than helium. I am sure there has been a good reason in the past not to use it,but with today 's technology it might be possible to use it to pressurize the fuel tanks. My experience with both gases is from welding so I know I could be off base. I would like to know why thanks
Helium has different expansion at different temperatures than argon. Helium gives a more consistent pressure vs argon which contracts more as the temperature drops so you need to have more on board to use for makeup and pressure regulation.
Sbout the only advantage for argon is its easier to seal.
Thanks friend
Argon works well for many applications but nothing beats helium... Especially for this application. We do the math today.
If I was manager, I would say, use the Dragon to return to earth, and let Starliner come back on it's own, if there happens something it won't be lethal. But knowing NASA they would be too proud to use this solution. There are too much ego's at NASA.
I would too... At this point ignoring all the problems is just dangerous.
Enjoyed your video and your reasoning....but until it is return time and they open that Helium valve and assess the current status, I don't agree with your recommendation. My only hope is that they return safely no matter what they decide to use for the transport back home!
I'm worried that a sudden helium venting through a leak could cause damage or disable the engines in one pod.
The Starliner uses old and supposedly proven technology and still hasn’t solve basic problems. They had helium leaks in the service module on previous launch attempt but still didn’t resolve the issue. SpaceX has already proven it’s reliable Dragon crew capsule.
Starship is using the latest innovations and fails at times but it resolves the issues at the next launch and makes significant progress going forward. The virtual landing test of the booster and Starship was a success and show great progress.
I think the problem is time... The long delay between construction and use. Imagine building a care, letting it sit for ten years then firing it up and heading out for a cross country tour. Probably not a good idea.
@@terranspaceacademy I would have thought Boeing would have test fired the thrusters and all other systems after taking it out of moth ball. It shows a lot of Boeing’s management problems along with their airline mishaps. Can NASA and the taxpayers bear continuing problems with Boeing? Maybe Dreamer Chaser can fill the bill.
My man
Thank you!
One technical advance in rocket science is how to grow all that high-quality ganja that Elon likes to smoke.
He's only smoked it once from what I can see but he had to do that on video so...
I was surprised they made it there
I was too.
I like that ideal. Extend their stay and bring them down on the Dragon.
No harm in being safe.
Agreed... Should have never left the ground...
Note that the former NASA chief, forced out by false charges (that were later shown to be false in court), had rules in place to prevent launching the Space Shuttles when it was too cold within 48 hours of launch. After he was forced out but before he was exonerated for exactly following the contract rules that Congress had placed in their specifications, the Congressional committee running NASA had overridden his rules and ordered NASA to launch anyway... thus the Challenger explosion.
They never let innocence get in the way of politics.
All the Starliner had to do was to sit comfortably on top of a rocket that it’s proved itself time and again and then once in space make the short trip to the ISS and while on its own, it found that very difficult to do because the pressures weren’t responding properlyI wouldn’t want to be those two crewmembers who had to get back on something that had anything to do with and hope that the thing will get them safely back to earth without putting them on another planet instead they definitely have to be brave to ride that thing😊
They had too many low pressure warnings in the thrusters for my taste. One is too much. Four leaks and five thruster failures is a NO GO.
What seems odd to me is humans have been successfully handling helium since 1903. Helium is used on numerous spacecraft. The use and handling of helium in space is known engineering. Why Boeing's Starliner is plagued with helium leaks seems more than a bit anomalous. NASA's rationalization that helium is a small molecule prone to leaking doesn't appear to be precisely accurate. I don't wish to disparage Boeing, however, the constant engineering related issues that the company has in so many areas implies something more fundamentally wrong with the company than a run of bad luck.
I think it sat too long...
NASA has quite a history of ignoring issues.
They do indeed. It is a disease of all bureaucracies I'm afraid.
I'm also not sure about elon's plan to increase the thickness of the Shields and put a second ablative layer underneath. I believe that will result in much more maintenance in between launches
Starliner is good. We just have to find out what it is good for.
Tours on the ground I think. Step right up and see the $5 billion dollar waste of taxpayer money! Right here folks!
Use this one to bring some waste back from the ISS.
As far as I'm concerned, you aren't being too cautious. History shows you REALLY can't mess with space safety. Clearly there are issues with Starliner and they aren't trivial either. Personally, were I in charge, I'd bring it down unmanned with the crew in an alternative that was safe.
We agree. There's no downside to being safe.
There is actually a nice paper out there "Guidance Navigation and Control for Chang’E-5 Powered Descent" which I have yet to read.
Could you link it? The optical guidance is fascinating. Tesla better check their code security :-)
"Thiokol engineers warned NASA not to launch when it was too cold." Yes, and then after launching, NASA kept that information from the Congressional investigation. It took some Thiokol engineers intervening to tell the investigators that they warned them hours earlier and were browbeaten by NASA bigwigs to change their story.
Which should have been a crime. Would have been if we had done it.
@@terranspaceacademy Indeed.
Delayed return again, I believe for the 3rd time, now the 26th. Clearly there is a real concern here, even though they try to dress it up. I am starting to suspect the ISS just got itself a new module...
Getting a contract from NASA should be a reward for being the absolute best of the best not a reward for cutting safety corners to increase profits. Based on the quality of aircraft Boeing builds NASA should have never awarded Boeing a contract to build anything for NASA.
We agree.
Prototype vessels that are still in development should not be used to carry people. Plain and simple.
We agree. At least a half dozen cargo runs would be a lot safer.
Agree with you about leaving the astronauts at the station and have them come back on a Soyuz or Dragon.
As far as another American system goes…Dream Chaser is going to test this year and if all goes well it should be more capable than Starliner
I have high hopes for it.
I hope those astronauts aren't whistleblowers
Ouch! They do have a habit of coming up without a metabolism don't they.
They should have an investigation. Remember that company guy was saying that valve they design wasn't for used as they used it.
He company was a outside supplier
That's not good...
I'm curious - why use helium for hypergolics? They don't need a gas that stays gaseous at cryogenic temperatures.
It doesn't react to most things and it's good for pressuring systems, pushing the fluids through the system.
Helium is best for pressurization... Noble so there's no reactions or hydrogen embrittlement etc...
@@terranspaceacademy Does it actually mix with the propellants? Is there a bladder?
@@terranspaceacademy One of the reasons it's "best" is because it remains a gas at the low temperatures of cryogenic liquid propellant. If the temperatures are higher, why not a gas that's easier to seal? There must be a few options that don't cause undesired reactions.
its gonna blow for sure
I really hope not but I don't trust it.
umm no click bait, just science and space news, seems i found a new channel :)
Welcome aboard Glenn and thank you.
This would make a good plot for a movie, .... oh, wait.....
A happy one I hope!
They can stay on ISS almost indefinitely. There is no hurry to get them back home. Hopefully NASA made contingency plans for the failure of the Starliner. This was a test flight, the first manned flight. Not preparing for failure would be, well it would be something NASA may do.
Hopefully the concerns are overblown and all will be well.
We hope so too
I keep saying this, but America does not have two space vehicles now. It has 3, bordering 4: Orion is virtually ready and Starship will be flying humans within two years. Why do we need Starliner? What can it do that we don't have already?
Good point. If they can fix Orion's shield. And there's still Dream Chaser.
@@terranspaceacademy I really doubt they'll be flying humans on Starship that soon, but about the anybody-but-spacex crowd, Orion could probably launch on Vulcan to LEO and the heat shield would *probably* hold up better returning from there. Crew Dreamchaser on the other hand would take so long that starship probably would be crew-safe by then.