Parity: Usually for sending/receiving stuff, a check bit is included in the sent data, so the receiving side can check if the data is corrupt or not. This is called the parity bit, and apparently this keyboard can generate either an "odd = 1" or "even = 1" signal.
So the board uses RS232 for the connection to the terminal? That might even make sense 'cause chracter-based terminals typically also use an RS232 link to the host computer.
Based off the date codes I can see on the IC chips in the board, it looks like your unit was made somewhere between 1983 and 1984. A pretty late model.
To add to the parity explanation: - keyboards send information via a serial protocol (PS/2 is a type of serial protocol), aka a series of 0s and 1s. - To ensure the data is not corrupt, the protocol includes a bit that is a sanity check, called parity bit. - The parity bit lights on so that the sum of 1s is odd: if the information is "0110", the parity bit will be 1, so that there are three 1s, making it odd. - Some protocols use odd parity, other use even parity. This keyboard is the first that I see that can choose between parity types.
My guess is that cherry switch is there because it is the terminal reset switch. That switch probably needs to actually pass current in order to invoke the reset of the system. This is probably easier done with something that actually makes contact internally.
As an ASCII keyboard it probably just sends bytes down a serial (or parallel, by the look of that connector) cable. That means you probably don't get keyup events, so adapting it for a modern PC might be tricky. It should be possible to make it work for simple typing (where you synthesise a keyup as soon as the keydown shows up), but it'd be _hilarious_ for gaming.
The Magnavox Videowriter works in quite the same way. I used one converted with a method like you describe and even for typing and general computer use it was... quite the challenge, since you essentially have single key rollover. Hey, at least the shift keys are holdable!
Out of curiosity, are you planning to do another video on alps lubing particularly on the recently discovered method of “just rub the stems against a candle bro”?
@@thexenian Yeah Chyros liked it a lot. She said it's a great, cost-effective method to restore most used Alps switches to maybe 9/10 condition. Maybe she will do a colab with Glarses?
That Cherry switch looks like it's the Reset Terminal button, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe that one needs to be a physical contact based switch in order to guarantee that a reset will be successful even if all the current-sensing hardware has completely glitched out? It could be physically connected directly to a pin on the cable that connects directly to physical hardware reset input in the terminal rather than going through the normal key sensing circuitry.
back in the late 90's, tahnks to my dad, we had a MASSIVE collection of all kinds old keyboards from VAX/VMS to POS systems (mid 80's to mid 90's) and of course plethora of PC keyboards. I'm to the recycling bin they went :( I really liked the obscure keyboards but the teenager me was like "too bad I can't connect these anywhere". Still have the my old Key Tronics with the weird "antistatic" space bar (or wtf that was) and with the T modified to I so it was Key Ironic keyboard.
Great video as always Tom. I was just coming into the computer world as IBM and clones were taking over. There was a certain fun in having a bunch of different types of computers and their keyboards, none of which were compatible with any of the others. Everyone, have a great day!
That is an insanely over engineered keyboard case. That case will absolutely outlive all of us. edit: Which I guess is a perfect match for the over engineered switches haha
Back in the days when Hewlett-Packard made test equipment, HP over-engineered everything they made. The thickness of the plastic case, the large metal strips for shielding, the brass inserts, and the robust cable are all examples of quality HP engineering of the era.
The cherry m9 switch supports two sets of contacts with the second one being actuated after the first one on a hard press. I'm probably not far off to suspect this m7 switch serves a similar purpose, especially since some m7 housings seem to accomodate two sets of contacts. Maybe the slim black key has two functions and they didn't want to develop their own switch for that. Edit: Changed m7 to m9, as the switch i had in mind and on hand was the latter not the former. Apologies if i have mislead anyone, i'd still stand by this as an educated guess.
I wish you talk about big key stabilizers these old boards have too (or dont have?). The inside of that space bar must look glorious at 2+ mm thick. damn.
*Crying into hands* Why does every subject I decide to investigate turn out to be an endless rabbit hole? I thought finding out what keyboards some of the old micro computers used (Atari 800XL/Amiga/C64) and if I could get something modern that would approximate them would be reasonably straight forward! Then, the first computer I investigate turns out to have had half a dozen different keyboards and then I stumble across this channel and find out that the subject of keyboards is more complicated than the history of the machines they were in. On a more serious note, I've watched a few of your videos now and it is an interesting topic. I just find it frustrating that it's one of those hobbies where a lot of the best stuff seems to be discontinued and/or hard to find or you have to jump through hoops to use some of it today.
To be fair, those washing machines may in fact be very stable and possibly geniuses. I have to say I like the color scheme (acknowledging that the keycaps have yellowed!). Amber and grey are a very nice combination. And the keycaps themselves are beautiful in terms of design. Great video. Interesting story behind the keyboard too.
You can actually use it on a modern computer - there might be a problem if PCB traces corroded, because sensing those keys is pretty finicky. But I actually made a controller that can reliably sense those.
"A MASSIVE 1 kilobyte of RAM" Funny story I just wrote a rotary encoder acceleration algorithm without optimizing a damn thing and it uses 1 kilobyte of RAM just to do 150ms of hysteresis on 4 encoders.
@@sir0herrbatka Nah, it's all my fault. I got it working with 56 bytes of memory at the expense of having up to 20ms of time jitter. It wasn't really noticeable but I doubled it anyway to 10ms and 100 bytes of RAM mainly because it would be humiliating if I had bloated a program out to 20 times its required size.
Regarding the complexity of the switch mechanism, my guess is that the primary goal behind the design was longevity. Like you said in the video, it is completely contactless, with no mechanical components other than a spring. So... they should have a ridiculously long service life.
The quality of this keyboard isn't surprising. Back when this was made, before they starting manufacturing commodity PCs, HP was an engineer's company; started by engineers, run by engineers, selling stuff that engineers used (like test equipment and workstations). Yes, they also sold minicomputers (servers in current lingo), but they too were overengineered.
Love how early keyboard gave little thought to cost. Make a keyboard work well was the design spec, not cost. By the time rubber domes took over we knew cost reduction had gone too far.
You speak as if there's no market. If the market wanted high-quality switches, they would have gotten them and paid for them. Like automatic transmission in cars. But by the 90's no one wanted high-quality switches.
@@bltzcstrnx Yes, custom or specialty keyboards. The OP is talking about mass market keyboards. Expensive mass market keyboards that "work well" in the OP's definition make no sense.
looks like a weirdcore beamspring replica, both in the alternative styled switch terms, the unique appearance and the bulky build (I know this also goes for some other boards, but this reminds me of a beamspring board especially compared to the others)
Please do a review on the cherry dark navy switches in which are smoother and are more rare so they feel exactly when they first came out also the tactility is cherries finest
Hey Chyrosran22, can you do Asus TUF GAMING K7 keyboard review. I would love to know what you make of it. I think it is unique enough to qualify for review.
I find it peculiar that the keyboard has both a pair of page keys and a pair of roll keys. On mainframes and mid-frames, Roll Up = Page Down and Roll Down = Page Up, generally speaking.
"The magnets are embedded into the slider, you can see them here" I mean... I *would* be able to if the slider wasn't the same color as the magnet and the shot wasn't underlit/underexposed
Totally not relevant to this keyboard but I think I have found a totally awesome keyboard that is used in medical applications... I stayed at a hospital as a patient and I got the opportunity to test it out a little bit and I got instantly hooked. The keyboard in question is a "Medigenic Keyboard" Completly flat surface so that it is easy to clean... backlit keys... I don't know what mechs is used but I think it is some kind of rubber domes... Ofcourse I found out how to order one as an ordinary computer nerd (they are normally sold in bulk quantities to hospitals where cleanliness is a big priority). Have you heard of this kind of keyboard before?
Parity: Usually for sending/receiving stuff, a check bit is included in the sent data, so the receiving side can check if the data is corrupt or not. This is called the parity bit, and apparently this keyboard can generate either an "odd = 1" or "even = 1" signal.
and IIRC full duplex is the ability to send and receive data at the same time. half duplex is alternating between one or the other.
But the question is: can you whistle a 300bps connection ?
@@denesk2794 gotta launch those nukes somehow :)
So the board uses RS232 for the connection to the terminal? That might even make sense 'cause chracter-based terminals typically also use an RS232 link to the host computer.
Used them for a few years. They could be heavily customized even to the point of adding internal boards. Extremely reliable.
Based off the date codes I can see on the IC chips in the board, it looks like your unit was made somewhere between 1983 and 1984. A pretty late model.
To add to the parity explanation:
- keyboards send information via a serial protocol (PS/2 is a type of serial protocol), aka a series of 0s and 1s.
- To ensure the data is not corrupt, the protocol includes a bit that is a sanity check, called parity bit.
- The parity bit lights on so that the sum of 1s is odd: if the information is "0110", the parity bit will be 1, so that there are three 1s, making it odd.
- Some protocols use odd parity, other use even parity. This keyboard is the first that I see that can choose between parity types.
My guess is that cherry switch is there because it is the terminal reset switch. That switch probably needs to actually pass current in order to invoke the reset of the system. This is probably easier done with something that actually makes contact internally.
As an ASCII keyboard it probably just sends bytes down a serial (or parallel, by the look of that connector) cable. That means you probably don't get keyup events, so adapting it for a modern PC might be tricky. It should be possible to make it work for simple typing (where you synthesise a keyup as soon as the keydown shows up), but it'd be _hilarious_ for gaming.
I think Ben mentioned something along those lines, yeah.
I've adapted a parallel ASCII Microswitch hall effect keyboard... like you said, there's no keyup signals. But for normal typing it's fine.
The Magnavox Videowriter works in quite the same way. I used one converted with a method like you describe and even for typing and general computer use it was... quite the challenge, since you essentially have single key rollover. Hey, at least the shift keys are holdable!
Out of curiosity, are you planning to do another video on alps lubing particularly on the recently discovered method of “just rub the stems against a candle bro”?
I see your a man of culture as well
Yes, I may very well end up doing something like that. No guarantees, but I have a project it would be quite well-suited to, I think.
I'm hyped about a thomas X Glarses collab about the candle method since both liked it lol.
@@thexenian I haven't even tried it yet xD .
@@thexenian Yeah Chyros liked it a lot. She said it's a great, cost-effective method to restore most used Alps switches to maybe 9/10 condition. Maybe she will do a colab with Glarses?
That Cherry switch looks like it's the Reset Terminal button, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe that one needs to be a physical contact based switch in order to guarantee that a reset will be successful even if all the current-sensing hardware has completely glitched out? It could be physically connected directly to a pin on the cable that connects directly to physical hardware reset input in the terminal rather than going through the normal key sensing circuitry.
good point
back in the late 90's, tahnks to my dad, we had a MASSIVE collection of all kinds old keyboards from VAX/VMS to POS systems (mid 80's to mid 90's) and of course plethora of PC keyboards. I'm to the recycling bin they went :( I really liked the obscure keyboards but the teenager me was like "too bad I can't connect these anywhere". Still have the my old Key Tronics with the weird "antistatic" space bar (or wtf that was) and with the T modified to I so it was Key Ironic keyboard.
Great video as always Tom. I was just coming into the computer world as IBM and clones were taking over. There was a certain fun in having a bunch of different types of computers and their keyboards, none of which were compatible with any of the others.
Everyone, have a great day!
Glad that I could contribute washing machine units. Hope your vacay was great!
It was, thanks - and thanks! ^^
Wax gang rise up
He's seen the wax video, it's only a matter of time
Boil
That is an insanely over engineered keyboard case. That case will absolutely outlive all of us.
edit: Which I guess is a perfect match for the over engineered switches haha
Back in the days when Hewlett-Packard made test equipment, HP over-engineered everything they made. The thickness of the plastic case, the large metal strips for shielding, the brass inserts, and the robust cable are all examples of quality HP engineering of the era.
@@isidoreseville6015 Man, so different from the "sell printers dirt cheap but make everyone pay out their eyeballs for ink cartridges" era of HP.
Perfect example of "they just don't make 'em like they used to". What a UNIT.
The cherry m9 switch supports two sets of contacts with the second one being actuated after the first one on a hard press. I'm probably not far off to suspect this m7 switch serves a similar purpose, especially since some m7 housings seem to accomodate two sets of contacts.
Maybe the slim black key has two functions and they didn't want to develop their own switch for that.
Edit: Changed m7 to m9, as the switch i had in mind and on hand was the latter not the former. Apologies if i have mislead anyone, i'd still stand by this as an educated guess.
That actually sounds really good!
I wish you talk about big key stabilizers these old boards have too (or dont have?). The inside of that space bar must look glorious at 2+ mm thick. damn.
*Crying into hands* Why does every subject I decide to investigate turn out to be an endless rabbit hole? I thought finding out what keyboards some of the old micro computers used (Atari 800XL/Amiga/C64) and if I could get something modern that would approximate them would be reasonably straight forward! Then, the first computer I investigate turns out to have had half a dozen different keyboards and then I stumble across this channel and find out that the subject of keyboards is more complicated than the history of the machines they were in.
On a more serious note, I've watched a few of your videos now and it is an interesting topic. I just find it frustrating that it's one of those hobbies where a lot of the best stuff seems to be discontinued and/or hard to find or you have to jump through hoops to use some of it today.
Extremely excellent video. As always, cheers. :)
Baud rate, Parity, Duplex. This is gold.
I at one point had one of the terminals. Very interesting and unusual things.
Another bigly keyboard review. Appreciated.
0:47 Now Hewlett-Packard next terminal an open, makes selecting your and shut case.
I had a stroke
To be fair, those washing machines may in fact be very stable and possibly geniuses.
I have to say I like the color scheme (acknowledging that the keycaps have yellowed!). Amber and grey are a very nice combination. And the keycaps themselves are beautiful in terms of design.
Great video. Interesting story behind the keyboard too.
I wonder if that baud and parity selector was for direct cable serial transfer or if it had some kind of modem built in?
Ah, I do miss my weekly Saturday morning dose of these... but this should hold me over for a while I guess. ;-)
Tom's reviews have become a very welcome surprise, like an old friend stopping by to chat and have a cup of coffee :-)
The king has returned
Love your videos, keep them up!
even on the crap speakers of my Android Tablet this keyboard sounds really NICE!!!
can you even hear his voice with cheap speakers?
in my sound system the voiceover gets sent to my subwoofer, lmfao
@@purplelord8531 then something is wrong with your setup, cause I heard him just fine like every other video he's put out.
I can't get over how close these look to the VIC-20, C64 and C16 keys.
In the south they use washing machines as units of measure but in the American northeast, where I’m from, we tend to use dryers 🇺🇸
The metric equivalent is "loads of laundry".
@@gyozakeynsianism I think the preferred unit is millikilogunthers per square microfemtoargundesons.
You can actually use it on a modern computer - there might be a problem if PCB traces corroded, because sensing those keys is pretty finicky. But I actually made a controller that can reliably sense those.
Cool review. Are you referring to hall effect switches when you say 'there are modern switches that do this concept better'?
Modern contactless boards, yes.
That terminal makes my old VIC 20s seem almost spacious in the onboard memory department!
"A MASSIVE 1 kilobyte of RAM"
Funny story I just wrote a rotary encoder acceleration algorithm without optimizing a damn thing and it uses 1 kilobyte of RAM just to do 150ms of hysteresis on 4 encoders.
Contemporary compilers don't usually put much emphasis on memory efficiency.
@@sir0herrbatka Nah, it's all my fault. I got it working with 56 bytes of memory at the expense of having up to 20ms of time jitter.
It wasn't really noticeable but I doubled it anyway to 10ms and 100 bytes of RAM mainly because it would be humiliating if I had bloated a program out to 20 times its required size.
Regarding the complexity of the switch mechanism, my guess is that the primary goal behind the design was longevity. Like you said in the video, it is completely contactless, with no mechanical components other than a spring. So... they should have a ridiculously long service life.
The quality of this keyboard isn't surprising. Back when this was made, before they starting manufacturing commodity PCs, HP was an engineer's company; started by engineers, run by engineers, selling stuff that engineers used (like test equipment and workstations). Yes, they also sold minicomputers (servers in current lingo), but they too were overengineered.
a wild keyboard review appears!
I wonder if reset terminal has the opposite normally open/closed behavior or is current carrying, which is why it needed a different switch.
You should review the ASUS Scope RX with ROG RX Reds
gorgeous
baud rate on a physical knob ?! WHAT
That haitch pea reference tho lmao.
ngl those keycaps looking good tho
Is the out of place switch in all of these boards? Or is it just the board u have?
how about review on AKKO CS switches? Would love to hear your thoughts about them
Love how early keyboard gave little thought to cost. Make a keyboard work well was the design spec, not cost. By the time rubber domes took over we knew cost reduction had gone too far.
You speak as if there's no market. If the market wanted high-quality switches, they would have gotten them and paid for them. Like automatic transmission in cars. But by the 90's no one wanted high-quality switches.
@@gyozakeynsianism thousand dollars keyboard market still exist though. A good keyboard nowadays usually costed around 150 to 500 USD.
@@bltzcstrnx Yes, custom or specialty keyboards. The OP is talking about mass market keyboards. Expensive mass market keyboards that "work well" in the OP's definition make no sense.
Whats ur favourite mx style switches?
looks like a weirdcore beamspring replica, both in the alternative styled switch terms, the unique appearance and the bulky build (I know this also goes for some other boards, but this reminds me of a beamspring board especially compared to the others)
C'mon ... you know what parity and duplex is! RS232 is alive and well - and serial protocols are everywhere nowadays!
Alps boiling review
How can people send you stuff?
2:25 There are some situations where I prefer hamburger units.
Wow!
This thing is like Commodore 64's papa or something!
Please do a review on the cherry dark navy switches in which are smoother and are more rare so they feel exactly when they first came out also the tactility is cherries finest
Lovely key keyboard 🍩
What is that keycap profile? Deep dishes and no height difference between the rows, interesting!
He called it uniprofile.
@@JanPospisilArt what would the modern available alternative be known as? SA row 3?
@@bakakafka4428 I honestly don't know.
"Now Hewlett-Packard next terminal an open makes selecting your and shut case."
Hey Chyrosran22, can you do Asus TUF GAMING K7 keyboard review. I would love to know what you make of it. I think it is unique enough to qualify for review.
interesting that this is basically in modern JIS layout when it's seemingly an english keyboard
I find it peculiar that the keyboard has both a pair of page keys and a pair of roll keys. On mainframes and mid-frames, Roll Up = Page Down and Roll Down = Page Up, generally speaking.
Hey I have one! I never clicked so fast.
That’s a better layout than the ibm model f xt lol and it’s older
You forgot to put the switch type in the title.
Chiefly. I learned a word today
Rube Goldberg switch
Perfect timing
yei new keyboard review >w
Just in time
"The magnets are embedded into the slider, you can see them here"
I mean... I *would* be able to if the slider wasn't the same color as the magnet and the shot wasn't underlit/underexposed
Totally not relevant to this keyboard but I think I have found a totally awesome keyboard that is used in medical applications...
I stayed at a hospital as a patient and I got the opportunity to test it out a little bit and I got instantly hooked.
The keyboard in question is a "Medigenic Keyboard"
Completly flat surface so that it is easy to clean... backlit keys... I don't know what mechs is used but I think it is some kind of rubber domes...
Ofcourse I found out how to order one as an ordinary computer nerd (they are normally sold in bulk quantities to hospitals where cleanliness is a big priority).
Have you heard of this kind of keyboard before?
Yes, I've seen things like this in the past. They are usually quite awful xD .
@@Chyrosran22 The awfullness I guess depends on what kind of user one is... :-)
I find that keyboard kinda hot lol
3:15 lmao
Haiche Pee
let's be honest, who needs more than 110 baud?
I want to use "real world units".
TF?!
how and why would morons measure in washing machines?
oh yeah now thats how one makes a keyboard
There are no Ctrl kyes so you can't jump with this keyboard. 😉
There is one to the left of the A.
Dude, people want to hear what each Keyboard sounds like ...why not just do that first.