0:51: 🎮 Exploring the impact of Final Fantasy VII: Rebirth on the creator's life and content creation journey. 9:16: 🎮 Exploring the gradual build-up of the main plot in Final Fantasy VII allows for diverse arcs in each area. 17:34: 🎮 Praising Final Fantasy VII: Rebirth for its substantial upgrades, diverse battle themes, and enhanced gameplay features. 25:35: 🎮 Comparison of plot similarities between Final Fantasy 9 and 16, with a recommendation to play FF9 for its characters. 34:00: 💭 Critique of the convoluted plot and lack of meaningful addition to the story in Final Fantasy VII: Rebirth. 42:34: 🕹 Speculation on the origins of the Multiverse concept in Final Fantasy VII Remake. 50:50: ⚔ A powerful character aims to own the Multiverse to become a god due to inability to win. 58:35: 🎮 Speculating on potential Final Fantasy remakes, highlighting challenges with Final Fantasy 8 storyline. 1:07:33: 🎮 Speculation on potential family relationships between characters in Final Fantasy VII. 1:15:23: 🎮 Comparing characters' strengths in Final Fantasy VII Remake and discussing Kate Sith's combat effectiveness. 1:23:30: 💬 Comparison between Final Fantasy 8 music tracks, disputing Extreme vs. One-Winged Angel, with appreciation for Griever boss. 1:32:05: 💭 Exploring the impact of alternate worlds and universes in storytelling, with a focus on character choices and consequences. 1:40:17: 🎮 Excitement for new Final Fantasy games, discussing endings, and desire for unique gameplay experiences. Recap by Tammy AI
Agreed. Rebirth felt massive in a way I don't think any other game has felt to me. I'm still kinda in disbelief at this game existing as it is. Can't imagine what part three will be like with the Weapons and what happens in the Northern Crater at the end.
@@Spaciousfoot Characterisation in a character rich, story driven game is not bloat - it's the meat and potatoes of the entire story experience. Go cope somewhere else.
If you wanted to rush to the end then that’s fine but I enjoyed fighting all the optional bosses and doing all the side quests for extra character lore and interactions.
Aerith dies 4hrs in the game?? Dude, you're not even out of Midgar by then. How come none of you noticed that? It's more like 20 25 hrs, about half way into the game.
Say what you will about multiverse and such, but I love how it allowed ambiguity in this game in general and Aerith's fate in particular. I didn't play FF7 as a kid, I played it first in college after FFX. By then I heard all the memes about her death, so I missed the shock value that Drinker mentions. Going into this game with its alternate timeline stuff meant I had no idea what would happen for once. Would Cloud save her, or would she still die? I cheered when Cloud parried the sword. I froze in horror when perception glitched, the sword bloodied and Aerith fell. I cheered again when she showed up to fight alongside Cloud, then my heart sank when I realized she seemed to really be dead. I sat through the credits in mourning, finally experiencing the old memes of a Aerith's death breaking the heart of grown men. Also, on another Aerith note that didn't come up in the stream, her song in the theater was *beautiful*. That just may be my all time favorite beautiful video game scene.
indeed. seeing my 17 year old play remake, I legit LOVE his reactions on the game. He knows Aerith dies in the OG game, not knowing if she's alive? why is Zack alive? And yeah we had to leave some things out including Aerith's song, because let's be honest, we could have made a 10 hour stream on this game lol
You didn't though. The impact was nothing like it was before, whether you were expecting it or not. As even if they wanted to change it, they handled that change terribly. It had been quiet in the past, a massive weight of sadness and loss. This whole sequence was was subtle as a brick. What a mess.
Always an honor spending time with the Drinker and meeting Endymion was a blast. Hope i didn't get TOO drunk lol But what a GREAT time with these guys.
Good job dude! You were very knowledgeable and I enjoyed how you were able to explain certain elements of the story. Not finished with the vod yet but I wished someone brought up how Sephiroth is the same one from Advent Children hence the wing.
@@aytony4090 awe thanks Tony. I got a LITTLE drunk and get nervous because the drinker and Endymion are so well versed I worry I come across as a moron. Your comments humble me
@@zillauniverse7208 of course. I LOVED Kos-Mos. Sadly I didn't beat Xenosaga 3 and Then Xenoblade Chronicles, sadly I've been SO busy that I haven't played them myself, but I watched RUclips videos on the story. It just hits the point that owning a Xbox Series X, Ps 5 AND a switch, my time is limited. I often joke with my kid, enjoy now being 17 boy, I miss the days of spending all night with Fei or Crono or Alex from Lunar, Tidus from 10 and Lighting from 13. The beauty now of RUclips is I can be at work and listen to others breakdown these franchises which I love. I remember when I first got into Phantasy Star Online the first character I made was named Grahf lol and gave him all black armor. What a beast of a character. At some point I'll dam sure listen to some RUclips videos of a Xenosaga play through.
One thing that's curious is assessing enemies. Doing the protorelic quests, you encounter the "Eccentric Swordsman" who then becomes Gilgamesh once you assess him in his final fight, and it overwrites his old combat data. The same thing with Roche: his motorbike boss data is overwritten with his Jenova-enhanced boss data later on. If you assess Sephiroth in the ending fights, there are two separate entries for him despite looking identical. Either it's to differentiate the two fights, in which case why did they not do it for Gilgamesh and Roche, or you fought two different Sephiroths. Or it's an oversight. I'm of the mind that Aerith is dead and primarily exists in Cloud's head. The whole party battles Jenova Lifeclinger and they start the fight with full limit gages, except for Cloud, because he cannot accept that Aerith is dead. You even get a superchat at 1:34:11 that mentions Cloud speaking muted words when holding Aerith's body, and it was confirmed (at least with Remake) that Brianna White recorded her saying Zack's name in the playground scene, which was similarly muted. It's entirely possible that Aerith's funeral after the fight did occur and Cloud has just blocked it from his memory and the view of the player, because the party members are still there mourning. As for why Sephiroth is doing what he's doing and why he needs Cloud, and why there's "7 seconds till the end," we'll just have to see. They can still throw us curveballs in part three.
Rebirth not selling well still shocks me because this game was fantastic. One of the best games I’ve ever played in my entire life. The combat, the music, the story, the characters, the mini games. They do not make games like this very often. As far as the ending goes, I think Cloud is just deeply mentally unstable. He’s the unreliable narrator, same as he was in OG and we are seeing everything through his eyes and he refuses to believe that Aerith is dead. That’s why we don’t get to see the funeral scene. Which did happen, Tifa is a complete wreck, she just lost a close friend in Aerith and is watching her other close friend lose his mind. Everybody just witnessed Cloud lay Aerith to rest but Cloud doesn’t accept it. He’s in denial just like he was with Zack. I also believe that the version of Aerith that Cloudcloud is seeing could be Jenova trying to warp Clouds mind. Look back to how many times it was said that Jenova can take the form of those you love those you hate those your fear. Guess we will find out in 4 years. All and all Rebirth was a fantastic game hopefully it gets to PC fast and sells like crazy because this game deserves it .
I think the game is great especially with the combat system, the music, the scenery of all the towns. I thought especially seeming Kalm in the beginning was mesmerizing. But I do have my issues with the story with the different worlds or timelines. Alot of other forms of media have been using this same trope for years and it's just lazy IMO. Can they bring it together for a satisfying conclusion, I believe so, but it's gonna make it harder when you've already set your story behind the 8 ball
@@imyoursuperbeast8220 yeah I completely agree. I am not a fan of the multiple timeline stuff. It seems like they’re trying to merge it into one singularity, which I really hope is the case. With everything they still have left, the weapon fights, going to rocket town, going into the outer space, Wutai, actual Chocobo breeding and racing, there’s no need for convoluted timeline nonsense.
Console exclusivity badly hurt the games sales. I know three people who wanted to play this game but don't have a PS5. Almost half the people I know who wanted to play it couldn't. It was already a harder sell because it's a direct sequel, but it was made worse because it's already been a few years and so many people who played Remake on the PS4 didn't manage to get a PS5. I disagree with Endy that story related issues were the reason the game fell below sales expectations. The game is amazing. It's just too expensive and difficult for a lot of people to buy a PS5.
I disagree about main story not being there until the finale. To me the main story begins right after leaving Shinra Tower. Up to that point we're exposed to tons of information and how it affects characters (especially Cloud, Aerith and Red XIII) and once the heroes are out, they want answers. If that's not a motivation or a main story, I don't know what is.
I'm not one of remakes biggest fans but rebirth despite my trepidation I caught myself randomly smiling just exploring the world's listening to music in towns and character conversations...it was superb...I did get sidequest fatigue around gongaga but the game was brilliant. There were scenes I feel didn't live up to the original (seto reveal) and the end boss battle dragged on that long at the end I forgot what I was supposed to be upset about 😂 but on multiple rewatches I do like what they did with it and they've basically ensured that part 3 is going to be powerful as all fuck when it's revealed to cloud Aerith is dead. One of the best games I've played in years
There is still another 120+ hours of story still to come. I love it so far. I loved the original. I played it many times and I was 20 when it released in 1997. I can’t wait to see how they wrap it all up. All the big payoffs will be in the finale
I was also the same age (going on 21)! Keen to see where the game kicks off. Heck, it could even kick off in Rocket Town. What's to say, that ending scene when the Tiny Bronco takes off could well be in that region even. Can't wait to see the rest of the map too!
Sakaguchi was not part of the remakes. He created Final fantasy and came up with the concept and story plan of final fantasy 7. I think without him FF7 remakes are going to have a convoluted ending that isn’t as satisfying as the original.
Sakaguchi wrote Aerith’s death based on his mother’s if I’m recalling details correctly. It’s really strange to see Drinker and Endy give SE such as pass on Rebirth that essentially spits in the face of the original. If they wrap up the final part with a new happy ending, then it’s a cheap fanfic rewrite. If they wrap up with the same ending as the original, then all the padding and convoluted timelines are all meaningless fan service. IMO no current SE staff can direct good games anymore.
You thought the ending of the og was satisfying? 🤣🤣 no disrespect but the ending of the og leaves alot to be desired people act as if the og is this perfect masterpiece that cant be improved but its not its got alot of flaws and it is way too ambiguous and not in a good way. Rebirth has already surpassed it in many ways especially since we actually know the origins of the black materia and alot of the lore behind the cetra.
I'm slowly playing through the OG at the moment, I can say pretty confidently say that there's so much that the Remake is doing much better. Well, so far. Remake really does feel so much more fleshed out and it often draws attention to things that were just waved off before. I feel like the OG has become the Abridged version. Don't get me wrong though, I still pay all the respect to the OG and I do share your concern that the ending might get too convoluted. But, I'm still loving what I'm seeing so far and I hope Remake not only sticks the landing but also gives more than what the OG gave too.
@@tigerking8165it's nothing like a cheap fanfic rewrite. Kazushige Nojima wrote much of the original story and he's greatly expanded on the lore bringing in elements from Lifestream Black and White, Advent Children, Traces of Two Pasts, etc. I'm not expecting you to read the books outside of the game but it's overly fascinating. He's tying in a lot!
@@garywood97 Nomura still have the final say and hes the main reason of all this multi world crap in every game he was the write , KH.jpg . This dude as to go retired already , a bunch of shit endgame once again
@@illumina91 What? Have you actually seen the crap Nojima writes ? All the compilation stuff? FF8? They are on agreement on this. Not to mention all the fate crap that was 100% Toriyama. Nomura is to blame for this partly sure, but so it's everybody else, and even more so in some cases. Kitase wanted to make this shit even more insane.
Awesome chat fellas! But I have to reccomend that you look into "The Landi Lodge" and his video breaking down how FF7 Rebirth is NOT a Multiverse. If youre more casually into FF7 its easy to make that mistake, but if you know the LORE and how the Lifestream works its clear as day.
I don't believe it's a multiverse scenario at all. There's only one lifestream with multiple worlds - definitely a purgatory sorta thing. Also, I'm of the mind that Cloud and Tifa belong together especially when he always opens up to her and never to Aerith - their conversation in Gongaga notwithstanding. Also back in Remake, during the Chapter 14 resolutions, Aerith told Cloud that he cannot fall in love with her too. The voice cast too is outstanding. John Eric Bentley as Barret and Britt Baron's Tifa were standouts for me. Part of me wants an Advent Children DLC after Part 3 with the updated visuals and current voice cast which would be amazing! As for Dirge of Cerberus, I'd love for them to use the new visuals and continue with what Vincent's mechanics will be like for Part 3. Then there's the secret ending that involves Genesis too... Now, there's a video focusing on The First Soldier aspect of Ever Crisis that also looks into Sephiroth's origins. If you don't want to pay the game, just watch that 2 hour clip. Also, I agree with Endymion about a potential FFVI Remake. Two games to cover Balance and Ruin would be amazing and there's unfinished sub-plots that can be resolved too, like Shadow's dreams - and whether he's Relm's father or not...
In Remake Chapter 14 Aerith sorta has an awareness that she is destined to die, she's saying for Cloud "Please don't fall in love with me" because it'll be increasingly more painful for both of them. It's not her actively pushing Cloud away, at least that's how I approached that scene. In that same scene too Cloud says he'll be coming for her and she says with a grin, If that's what you want.. thank you. She appreciates that Cloud cares for her. Now in regards to Tifa opening up to Cloud in Rebirth, yes I acknowledge Cloud did tell Tifa things he didn't tell the others in the party however I find it hard to equate that with theyre the best couple for one another. Even in my own relationship my partner will sometimes say to me, 'this conversation is not for you' and request that I leave the house for a bit while he hatches things out. Does that mean my partner loves me less? No it's just I wasn't the ideal person to talk to at that moment of time. Now when they (Cloud and Tifa) leaned in, yeah that's a better convincing argument because I too also thought they were gonna kiss. Anyway I'm just kindly suggesting that Square did a phenomenal job on how Cloud has handled his relationship with Tifa and- his relationship with Aerith and for me anyway it's not as black and white as some fans are saying. John Eric Bentley was excellent, totally agree.
Two reasons for the multiverse one it rases the stakes its possible sepheroth can win, its possible aerith could live. At least thats what we thought. Second it allows this boss battle set up for a three parter it would not have been good to split the original into three parts and not have a high stakes boss battle in each game. It also allows sepheroth to be a ever present threat in the game, he actually isn't in the original all that much in this one hes always messing with cloud from the very first part of the remake on. I think the final boss battle is going to explain what was going on in the original, remember the final boss battle in the weird wormhole that was sort of clouds mind. It sort of seems similar to some of the things happening in remake with the wormhole to alternate universes and the edge of creation.
It's continuing the story. Sephiroth knows if the story continues as it he will lose. He knows that he fights Cloud head on he could beat . When things are on the line even with all his insecurities Cloud would still fight like hell to fight for those he loves. That hidden power has to be destroyed or Sephiroth will lose to him again. The only thing holding Cloud to his humanity is his past and Tifa is the key. That's why Sephiroth tried to kill Tifa. Aerith no matter how hard she tries cannot put Cloud together again. Especially now Aerith is trying to see her destiny through. She has to set aside her desires. Make no mistake she does not want to die but she said it's not about her and she will do her part to beat Sephiroth. But Zack is trying to save and willing to sacrifice that it will be Cloud and not him to save her. It's 2 love stories, childhood friends trying heal each other and starcrossed lovers burdened by their destinies. This multiverse is not like the multiverse of MCU where you just a reserve character. If you notice the timeline where Zack is the dying world where there is no more mako and besides that Sephiroth is essentially hunting her from one world and another. There is only one lifestream and people die there memories go to the lifestream. But the difference with Sephiroth he have jenova cells enabling him to resist being absorbed by the lifestream. So he threw away his humanity into the lifestream but for his to exist someone has to remember him, that's Cloud. For Cloud to remember he must hold onto his trauma. This Aerith is from the lifestream, if you see her at the beginning of ff7 remake she suddenly look down the alley and a short one winged angel played. Death in ff7 is not just for the end of the character because memories of those characters affect the living characters in negative and positive way. Cloud holding on to his trauma keeps Sephiroth alive for example. Even in Advent Children, Cloud has PTSD and the illness there, geostigma, affects those are emotionally weak or young. If you think of the story as how characters react to their past is what shapes their characters. For me ff7 remake is the right way to make a sequel.
@@Tootongtaoako that's an easier question than the one I asked you, I can see why you deflected away from it. But an actual sequel would be nice. Advent Children (the remakes differ in that it parasitises the original directly) had very little plot and was a retread of the arc Cloud went through the original, I would've liked to have seen the next stage rather than a poor man's highlight reel. If Cloud has PTSD, an accurate representation of that (or any) could've been good. I'd happily drop several if not all of the action scenes for any character development. But I suppose I could respond more simply to your question: "Anything that doesn't require me to tell myself a bunch of headcanon to convince myself I watched a better story"
Love these chats keep it up there's a wealth of games worthy Maybe even have streams to talk about predictions of other games like reminiscing the Mass Effect Trilogy then how it relates to Mass Effect 4
I loved listening to you guys, now that I'm an adult I miss nerd talk this brings me back to my highschool and college days because this is the type of conversations we would have over lunch or beers Watched the whole thing but was behind stopped by afterwards to leave a comment
The only problem with a new (somewhat new) fresh story is what happens when the novelty of it wears off? Personally I’d rather just have the known quantity
I've replayed the original like 20 times and I never felt like I needed the story to change. I played Remake part 1 and after beating it on hard, begrudgingly finished plating it and never desired to play again.
@@BaldorfBreakdownssame. Remake started fun, but when the ghosts appeared the game slowed down to a slog and I had a hard time reaching the end. Wouldn’t touch it ever again. A disappointment.
Counterpoint: Panning a new story when told that the story will not be the same as the original is what leads to remake and remaster hell like the one we're currently in. I'm not saying you need to like or enjoy rebirth over the original, but if you refuse to look at different approaches to the same story over the original, newer ideas will fall to the wayside and devs will be less likely inclined to take risks. That'll lead to stagnation and retreading of the same things again and again with less and less impact and the eventual homogenization of media into formulaic drudgery. Sometimes the audience needs to be as willing to take risks and try things in the same manner devs are, if only to be able to better articulate what they dislike and like so the devs know what direction they should go when adjusting for the future. It's very much fine to try something, dislike it and not want to give it the time of day but your expectations should be even and fair rather than bound to nostalgia if it can be helped--sometimes it can't, especially if something claims it will be a faithful recreation and a great deal is changed from it to suit modern audiences rather than to streamline some of the unintended friction (i.e. adjusting camera mobility and ease of access to UI related things or dropping unnecessary menus over making the big bad a caricature of a disliked political figure or adding modern politics to things that don't need them or where they don't fit). Remake didn't claim it would be fully faithful to the original, though you'll see a large chunk of the audience blaming Nomura for the story changes when he was the advocate for remaining as close as possible to the original.
I agree with Endymion the "death" was confusing. It feels like when Walking Dead did the Glenn fake out death. I never even played the original game but Aeriths death is so iconic I imagine the writers were conflicted on how to handle it in Rebirth
Watching this reminds me why I don’t play games as an adult. Not that I wouldn’t love too, I just don’t have the time!!! 10hour shifts as a thirteen year old on FF7 and Res Evil were beautiful.
Watching other play throughs is probably the best bet if you just don't have enough time to do it yourself. You can fast forward through boring bits, and just watch the story stuff and cool fights.
First spell Jenova birth casts, also the first remake jenova had the ability : STOP 🕛 Implying control over time (and space, with how it always makes the immediate area look different) It's basically a lovecraftian space horror and so its no wonder it will fuck with anyone who has it inside them.. And in turn give them power. Maybe I'm just stating the obvious but just my twopence. Playable vincent and Gaea's cliff hopefully, I'll have fun regardless of whether the ending is a salad
The one consciousness rule is a great insight to navigating the multi-world stuff. Multiverse storytelling always gets messy and it's not unjustifiably viewed as a poor storytelling device. But the one consciousness rule fits with everything so far and makes things easier to understand. If I'm not mistaken I believe they hinted at that idea in the Japanese book about the making of Rebirth.
In the original Aerith and Zack (Advent Children) were always alive in some way in the lifestream and able to communicate directly with Cloud. I don't see alternative timelines, I see an afterlife, a sort of purgatory. And the lifestream can manifest as people still alive (Marlene) to help guide a soul. Or it's all just batshit bonkers final fantasy and it really doesn't care what you think it's just taking you on a wild ride. Either way, one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had and is a masterpiece, a flawed one but still a masterpiece none the less. Cloud was an absolute beast. Oh and Tifa can't be the lead on that section in part 3, she's also inactive (after Junon escape/find Cloud.) No need to change, it's Cid's chapter. Also, the multiverse is not why it sold less than remake. Remake was PS4, then had a PS5 upgrade. Rebirth was just PS5. That's it.... And the single most important part of part 3 is the reveal of Clouds truth with Tifa; who he is, how he killed Sepiroth etc. That's the biggest and single most important moment in the entire game, not the death of Aerith.
There are quite a few indications that Aerith survived in a different timeline. Here's just one more important one: Go and rewatch the 'death scene'. You see Sephiroth's sword stuck in the ground after it seemed like Cloud deflected him, then it flashes to another shot when you see the pool of blood emerge. Go back and look at those 2 different shots and you'll see something important: The sword is in 2 DIFFERENT PLACES in the ground. It is NOT showing the same sword twice. It's in 2 completely different places AND 2 different angles in the ground. It is absolutely just showing you 2 different outcomes, not just Cloud being delusional about the 1 outcome.
Good observation. I also noticed the sword at a different angle but I often forget to mention it. Red can also sense Aerith so I'd like to think she's in another world and him with his animal instincts is more aware of her. Then again she could be in the lifestream and maybe Red can still be alert of her spirit... We won't know for sure until part 3.
@@ourfamilyaccount The tear in the sky also confirms the 2 timelines theory. Cos why would Cloud be hallucinating that? He didn't even know what it meant when he'd previously seen it. The tear in the sky symbolizes an unstable timeline (i.e every one except the main one), so that exists in the timeline where Aerith survived.
i still feel like the whole multiverse is a red herring. a way to fool people into thinking they can save aerith. and, just like the whispers in rebirth arent really the same as the ones in remake, the aerith in the 3rd game, wont be really aerith. to me, the multiverse is over, and sephiroth basically did a crisis on infinit earths kind of culling, in order to merge all verses into the one he wins. even the scene of aerith surviving and then she shows up stabbed, you could see as the result of sephiroth merging both that universe where cloud saved her, with one where he didnt. and he picked the result he wanted. even in their dialogue sephiroth calls out to cloud not understanding that she is gone. i mean, the guy most famous trait is the fact he literaly pulled that crap before with zack. and now is doing the same thing, but with aerith. so yeah, im in the camp that belives she is dead. also, the game set too many hints that jenova is gonna skinsuit her to mess with the party. they gotta use that in some way in the next game.
@@marcosdheleno Good observation, I can easily picture Square Enix using the Aerith aspect as a red herring. I'm just so drawn to her character that I want to believe the player can save her. Even if I'm wrong, I'd rather carry that weight and emotional pain when going through the 3rd game. They might've made it more obvious too with the final prompt, "No promises await a journey's end" so I'm aware my trail of thought might be too optimistic but let me be foolish, let me day dream that there's a possibility our precious flower girl can be saved. Again we'll see... Waiting is the hardest part.
The one consciousness "rule" Drinker brings up is very interesting and I think supported by the times you hop over to Zack's timeline. It's whenever Cloud goes to sleep that we "wake up" in the other timeline.
I'm weird, I dislike the amount of "freedom" in Rebirth. At first I tried to engage with the side content of Rebirth until I got sick of being 8 to 10hrs between major story beats. I gave up secondary content after Gongaga and my experience with the game got much better. Upon my second play through, going from story moment to story moment just like Remake, my preference was clear.
It certainly creates a feeling of dissonance. I feel that more of the side content could have been locked and gate kept to be late / endgame content. They kind of proved with the structure of Corel & the late side quests that they could do something like this.
I absolutely loved this chat and watched the whole thing! FF7 has become legendary now. The only thing I wished I had seen more of was commentary from blue collar loser, he kept trying to get a word in but was continuously run over by Endy or Drinker.
I love 16, i love 7 og and remake and rebirth!!! I dont understand why people hate on 16 so much is such a good story great charactares ( i think i just connected with Clive and his whole facing his demons thing... ) but well likes are likes right?? 16 for me is just fantastic 7 rebirth i enjoyed a lot but the ending was just... i dont know how to say it... felt incomplete... and i know is not the complete story but remake felt like an ending!! And this time was like... really this is it??... i dont know...
for 16 its 2 tings. on one hand you have the people who hate it because its an action rpg, and any action rpg is the scourge of the earth and shouldnt exist. on the other there are people who dislikes its flaws, like for example equipment is the worst it has ever been since the original game on the nes in how bland it is. or how there's no utility stuff like protect, or haste, and the game focus too much on the cooldown. which makes it kinda like a spam fest. as opposed to other games in the genre like dmc3-4-5 or bayonetta 1-2-3. where you use stuff in a more tactical way, and you can use the attacks as much as you want, but its not always the best option. that doesnt mean the game is bad, far from it, but i feel like while some people(the vocal minority) gets too heavy handed on their complaints, there are issues that the game does, that do make it lesser than it should, or could achieve.
There absolutely still are stakes in multiverses because even though there are infinite versions of someone YOUR specific someone still can die and be lost.
Ive played Final Fantasy Rebirth, Persona 3 Reload, and Stellar Blade It been a great few months but now its basically a drag until Black Wukong, maybe I can finally get to the backlog
I 100% agree with the Drinker about FFXVI. I started off LOVING that game, but over the course of my 90 hours with it, and in the following months, I grew to ultimately hate it.
I appreciate all the praise and I do agree with you all, but I have to say that it is not a multiverse. What is happening is you are seeing the Lifestream corporealized and you are seeing Cloud denying reality. This concept and idea stems from Nojima’s books and previous writings, Yogachara Buddhism, soul transference, Kabbalistic Law, Hebrew Mythology and so on all in the context of the Lifestream and reincarnation. It is not a multiverse, nor does the game say anything about a multiverse.
I don’t care what anyone says, I fucking love this game, I just got the platinum and I am eagerly waiting for part 3. This is how you balance good gameplay and an interesting narrative, unlike other terrible games like new god of war. I was gripped with the story the whole way through, easily my goty
You realize you can love a game _and_ admit it has problems. No game is perfect. Sticking your hand in the sand about its flaws doesn’t to it any favours.
I'm working on my platinum trophy. Damn thing is actually a challenge. I think the game was great for what it was. I appreciate the cheese, especially when Red did his dance at the boat card tournament. Story is muddled at the end, but that's par for the course for anything related to Numora.
Not trying to argue here but apparently numora was the only one from the Dev team from the original that wanted a faithful remake it was everyone else that wanted to add the new stuff
If Jenova existing is why sephiroth has his power and can't die and can control the whispers because he has Jenova cells, then that means Zach and Cloud can also do the same. Sephiroth is messing with Cloud's mind so he can't see it, but why doesn't Zach?
Only Cloud can see Aerith at the end, similar to how he's the only one to see Sephiroth at the beginning. I thought Aerith took Sephiroth's place in Cloud's mind or something like that. Will be interesting to see the finale...in a few years 😄
@@bluecollarloser6654I love it when people say Part 3 will take 4 years because of the 4 year gap between Remake and Rebirth, but there’s no way Part 3 doesn’t release in 2027 (aka OG FF7’s 30th Anniversary).
@@campber9908 Yeah, the director said it shouldn't take as long this time. The same team is already working on part 3, so there isn't going to be any staff mix-ups. Most of the heavy work was done in making Remake and Rebirth. Plus, this time - hopefully - there's no giant cough-cough outbreak that's gonna put a massive slow down on everything, like it did with RB.
@@bluecollarloser6654 hopefully it's worth the wait, however long it takes, like rebirth was 🙂 2027 would be cool, as long as they don't take shortcuts to make it happen!
If the remake 8 or 9 like they have 7, then fleshing out each games story and lore would be epic, but don't turn into trilogies...like 7'S remake. I remember reading that FF7's story was changed mid production. Sometimes I wonder how many game's stories are rushed or slapped together just to get it shipped?
7 development (and i mean OG 7) was a shitshow. at one point, the game was so diferent, they decided to turn it into a diferent game... which became parasite eve.
I feel like they should’ve just let Jenovah be the last boss instead of Sephiroth(again). Kind of killed it for me cause the fight was so long. It would’ve been more impactful if Aeirith and Zack coming back for the final fight was saved for the third part. Loved the game overall.
Option 3: Sephiroth completed merging realities, which is why Aerith died, he merged two realities. But it does mean Zack is in the main reality. Cloud sees Aerith after blocking out him dropping her in the pool and after a Jenova headache. Also the new timelines dont have lifestreams, which is why they are all dying. Sephiroth might want to merge multiverses because the Cetra used fate to scatter Jenova that way. Merge the timelines to force the Jenova reunion.
The word multiverses being used in a FF7 discussion is so anathema to me. Why did this trope have to show up here? It's such a terrible, horrible trope to use.
@@JakobusMaximus As was mentioned in the stream, if you make death not mean death you remove a ton of dramatic affect that death truly has. What I am hoping is that all this analysis of timelines is pointless because Cloud is just so messed in the head by what Hojo did to him and Zach. The funeral scene will return later when he has to face it that she's been dead the whole time. But I'm not holding my breath for that outcome.
The initially confusing thing about the FF7 story is that there is a plot mechanic called the lifestream. It often gets mistaken as multiverse for people that are unfamiliar with it. It is a bit convoluted, but the story makes a lot more sense if you know that.
I don't mind multiple timelines as long as its made really clear where they diverged and why. It's certainly not clear right now. They could save it with a really tight flashback scene showing how all of the changes happened in game 3. But let's face it. That's really not Nomura's style.
@@bigmediafan How often does that happen though? Multiple timelines and multiverses need to disappear. I can't think of anything produced in the past ten years that was improved by them.
@BusesAreFatCars ill grant you that there aren't many. Butterfly effect springs to mind. Sliding doors, maybe. Terminator and avengers (I liked the films less and less as time went by, but I think they handled the time travel reasonably well).
@@bigmediafan I believe it worked for Terminator so long as they weren't leaning into the alternate timeline/reality thing. As soon as they did, the stakes and investment in the story goes out the window. As everything is subject to change. With Avengers, while it wasn't horrific, the time travel plot felt more like a TV show and I firmly believe that the movies would have been much better off without it. It's something that's really not easy to do well and I don't think that the Final Fantasy writers have the talent these days to pull it off.
FF7 Return is the best bet for the naming scheme based on the last track of FF7 Rebirth's soundtrack (Rebirth was part of the last track's name on Remake's soundtrack). If would name part 3, FF7 Resonance. It means to deepen and prolong while also being a more intense version of Reverberation.
sephy is hunting Aeriths and he plans to merge all time lines into one using the black materia. He then wants to kills aerith prime so then nothing can stop him any longer and he is useing diffrent clouds to help him kill the diffrent aeriths. becasue in every time line with aerith there is a cloud.
I bloody love this game, and I'll defend it all day. But even I can't justify this stuff. You can't just say things like "it changed the past and the future". If you're going to have a time manipulation plot in fiction, you have to first establish the rules. So that the audience can follow the logic. The game doesn't do this. It doesn't even try to justify it after the fact. These explanations are just fans trying to make sense of the nonsense.
@@bigmediafan think of it like this . The whispers and the arbiter of fate like red said in remake are the will of the planet. It wanted things to remain the same in remake because it survived but humanity was wiped out ( Refering to og ending with red and his family with no humanity in sight 500 years into the future) . When the team defeated the arbiter of fate in the spiritual form of the lifestream in gave both Aerith and sephiroth more control over the whispers in rebirth . In remake we know sephiroth had some control over the grey whispers ( we see him talk through one when cloud was sleeping) .and I think aerith also had some control over the grey whispers when referring to zack ( zack believes the wind or whispers that saved him was aerith ) I believe sephiroth traveled to the past through the lifestream ( in remake we see him open a portal to the spiritual form of the lifestream ) and aerith sent her memories to her past self through the lifestream . The lifestream contains memories, knowledge and emotions of those who past away or returned to the planet . As we know in og and advent children aerith can exist spiritually after her death ( she stopped meteor in og and she cured geo stigma in advent children)
6:08 I put in over 300 hrs into this game and platinumed. I freakin HATED Gongaga because of the hills and the cliffs and you couldn’t tell how to get to where you needed to go on the map. I loved Nibelheim
Nobuo Uematsu is 65 now. So let’s assume he’s gonna make till the end of the game. And if you look at the soundtrack and it’s 150 + tracks you see that he was the writer or rewriter of at least one third of the tracks. He’s still pretty much involved.
Not even close. All they had to do was remake FF7 with modern production standards...and they couldn't even get that right. Instead they added alternate timelines and multiverses so now it's a completely different story altogether
Did I miss something? Did Aerith and Cloud make any other promises to each other except the one she ask him to in the end? They literally made a whole song about having no promises to keep,but if that’s the only promise made wouldn’t it stand to reason that that is Aerith at the end? Then it says no promises await at journeys end…which leads me to believe that it’s not promised that Cloud will be the one to beat Sephiroth. Aerith also talks about how what’s she’s doing is trying to save the world and Cloud…we know from lifestream black that Sephiroth is able to keep coming back because he’s linked his core to Clouds memories…Sephiroth also says he won’t allow cloud to end and saves him several times. Maybe they’re gearing up to kill cloud and have Zack take his place in the final battle? Or maybe him and Aerith help from the lifestream? Idk. That would honestly be a better ending than them just going along with the original ending. I mean the whole premise of remake was to defy fate, yet we’re still on course with it so far. What was the point of that? Unless Zack being alive is to save cloud by helping him remember who he was so his mind isn’t susceptible to sephiroth because of his weakened state mentally? Could be why Marlene says they have to fix cloud before Aerith wakes up or she’ll die…because that makes it sound like she saw Aerith being saved by Cloud. Not being killed infront of him. I’m just wondering aloud here lol. Those are the things that bother me though about the ending of rebirth. If anyone has anything to clarify any of that for me, please do so. I’ve been stuck on it since I beat the game lol.
The change to Dyne's death, the actual ending and the padding (towers/challenges could have been cut in half) were the only negatives to me. Amazing game.
Honestly, no matter what explanation you can give for "multiple timelines," Aerith's death will always feel more meaningful to me than her survival. Even if the writers and theorists can make it believable, it just doesn't feel right to me. Something felt off. It made the story come across as being more generic and having lower stakes.
I wish they gave their opinions on the possible SquareEnix panic caused by the lack of sales for Rebirth and how that will affect Part 3. I just don't want Part 3 to have a half-cooked open world that suffers from budgeting constraints. If Square had to, for budgeting reasons, make part 3 slightly linear, tight, story driven, action heavy with an emotional finale that doesn't leave me with more questions, I'd be happy. No bloat, please. And they better not hint at a Part 4 or possible sequel.
Aerith’s death scene in Rebirth is MORE true to Cloud's character than in the og. Cloud has ALWAYS rearranged memories to cope with trauma. He literally forgot Zack's death after seeing him die right in front of him. Why wouldn't he do the same with Aerith's death? Him forgetting she died not only makes MORE sense than the original, but it also sets up for a GIANT conflict between Cloud and the crew. I think this was all very well done.
13:28 I only agree with that if the new story is actually better. Most of the time these days it's insultingly worse in a remake. 29:15 Maybe that's more of a relationship progressing from different stages? Given that Cloud would know Tifa better or longer than the others (depending on how you think about it).
I am so glad you guys loved this game. In many ways it is a really flamboyant and colorful game, there is a lot of gay stuff in it, but it is also hundreds of other things. So I am glad people who are more "conservative" loved the game without getting cought up in that. Like it is so many things, and the "diversity" is just natural.
I started watching the drinker for his movie reviews, so I was surprised and delighted to see that he had a video on Remake and was hoping he’d do something for Rebirth. I am with his and blue collar loser’s take on the ending and am glad the drinker is intrigued at what SE is doing. I do think like endymion does, that death needs to mean something and initially I was wary of the use of the multiverse as a plot device to subvert death. The drinker has some videos those concepts being so important to the success or failure of media too. But I agree that SE is using the “multiverse” concept very carefully and the drinker brought up great points of it being linked to only a few characters, and the idea of only one consciousness being present though there may be several physical bodies of a character, with the end goal of the different worlds eventually becoming one again. Aerith is my favorite character. I admit I am so happy this trilogy is giving me a little more time with her.
They went with brand recognition on this one. If they REALLY wanted to tell THIS story, they should have used 8. FF8 had time travel and alternative dimensions in its main plot. They really sandwiched this story into 7 because people know these characters
Rebirth is a masterpiece. GOTY for me so far and its not close. It's a shame that it seems to not have sold well.... the playstation exclusive is killing Final Fantasy
The whispers and the arbiter of fate in remake was the will of the planet . It wanted things to remain the same in remake because it survived but humanity was wiped out or became extinct ( Refering to og ending with red and his family with no humanity in sight 500 years into the future) When the team defeated the arbiter of fate ( in the spiritual form of the lifestream )in remake it gave both Aerith and sephiroth more control over the whispers in rebirth ( black whispers = lifestream black and white whispers = lifestream white ) We have seen the spiritual form of the lifestream in crisis core ( zack standing over a pool of water ) , advent children ( aerith talking to cloud ) , remake ( sephiroth opening a portal to where the arbiter of fate was ) and rebirth ( where sephiroth was explaining the multitude of worlds that are within the planet to cloud, where aerith was guiding zack with the follow the yellow flowers and where cloud ,zack and aerith vs sephiroth. ) These multitude of worlds ( are within the planet / lifestream ) that are created are dependent on the characters decisions ( cloud, zack,aerith and sephiroth ). It can be called dream worlds ( cloud was unconscious in the main reality when he was on his date with dream / og aerith and when he was fighting in the sleeping forest ). I do think aerith is dead in the main reality( spiritually alive like og and advent children ) and alive in the new reality / dream world when cloud saved her ( similar to zack's situation but she can exist in both ). It makes sense for aerith to be able help cloud vs sephiroth because that battle took place in the spiritual form of the lifestream . i do think it was our aerith ( remake aerith that is vs sephiroth)
When referring to her death it is to show aerith is trying to protect cloud's sanity when telling him it's ok in spiritual form and when referring to the end i think cloud is aware that she is in the lifestream but doesn't accept that she is dead . He knows he saved her ( when aerith said I saw what u did for me cloud thank u then cloud said thank me later during the fight with sephiroth)
The fact that there is all this discussion is so bothersome. It's unneeded. The original game proved that. The only reason it's in there is the new devs wanting the game to be "theirs" in a fit of pride. It would have been a better game following the original more closely.
@@JakobusMaximus kitase , Nomura and nojima ( writer of ff7 ) worked on og . These new elements that are being added are more expanding on the world / lifestream , characters and lore of not just og but also the compilation . I feel they are doing an amazing job with this series of games .
Late to the party on this one but I need Aerith to be alive in some form. If they have to LOST season 6 it so that she's in the next part then so be it.
i still belive she is gone, and the game is just gonna trick the players into beliving they can save her. the whole point of the remake is to give the same experience again, but how do you pull it off, when you already know the ending? their answer is, to murky the water, to make people think things are going haywire... and yet, 99% of it is still basically the same.
im givving you thumbs up for this content Critical Gamer. Just some Gamers talking about games, no extra drama!!!!! When listening, you know they knew their stuff. They have interesting ideas/ opinions. Even if I disagree on some points, we can all agree to disagree....its nice.... If you want to do more of this, go on....its chill and fun ;-)
Thanks, I was looking forward to this. Before seeing the vid. I personally think the ending was terrible. I don't think people who thought it was good, are wrong though. In a sense they did eliminate the central theme of the original, even when they kept most of the original intact. They also relied too much on Sephiroth because he is easy to recognize. EDIT: That guy at the bottom, doesn't know what Jenova is? lol
Final Fantasy VII may very well have the best cast of characters in all of gaming. Obviously Cloud is an icon, and Tifa and Aerith are a pair of legendary female main characters who still get talked about like Rei and Asuka decades later. Then you have a very well written character in Barret, especially how he's written in the remake, and after that an endearing and timeless ensemble to back them up. Oh yeah, and then there's fricking SEPHIROTH who is still the most badass villain in RPG history. From there you get the turks, Rufus, Hojo, the Shinra directors... Pound for pound this game oozes more character than any other FF game, and basically any other game at all if you ask me. I'm so glad the made a point of establishing the characters so well in the remake and for all the extra effort with the side content. Gives me the same feeling of classic Star Wars.
I wept for the Barrett/Dyne scene and Aerith with her mother. I’ve never cried in a game. And like you said Drinker, because of that, regardless of how tired I am of multiverses, this game did something special. It made me look at my daughters and wife differently. Never thought a video game could affect me like that.
Sephiroth isn't trying to rule the "multiverse", he's trying to manipulate events so that he wins. Save Aerith? Drag in an Aerith who died. He's also trying to destroy the multiverse so he can feed off the pain and devastation.
I liked queens blood untill i got to the end and found there was zero reward for playing it. Triple Triad from 8 gave you the best items and accessories in the game for comparison
I enjoyed the game a lot just wished it wasn't so damned long, really needed a editor to come in and slap the idiots who want to put in 1500 sidmissions and main story beats that go no where
I’m playing through it myself (already know all the main story beats from friends who have played it), and it does seem to fall into the Ubisoft trap of most of the open-world stuff just being filler. I kind of wish it had more side-quests that focused on the characters themselves in a similar way to supporting cast’s Tales in Ghost of Tsushima.
I’m curious to replay it shipping the optional parts to see how fast it feels, first time through I did pretty much everything and was around 130hrs but anytime it felt slow it was because I was doing something optional so it’s hard to complain that it takes too long if you’re doing something you don’t need to be doing
Anyone who’s played kingdom hearts knows exactly where this is going, super elaborate way of making all the dead characters come back to life so everyone gets a happy ending. And I’m perfectly fine with that
I'd like to think that the "Multiverse" in this game was to imitate the game play experience of Gamers showing the different choices that they made and the various outcomes. Doubt that's the case though.
It was so the developers had licence to do whatever they wanted and could just write it off as a multiverse thing. Also that if they got massive backlash they could change things for the following remake installment. Also as they're creatively bankrupt and saw it in Marvel movies...
0:51: 🎮 Exploring the impact of Final Fantasy VII: Rebirth on the creator's life and content creation journey.
9:16: 🎮 Exploring the gradual build-up of the main plot in Final Fantasy VII allows for diverse arcs in each area.
17:34: 🎮 Praising Final Fantasy VII: Rebirth for its substantial upgrades, diverse battle themes, and enhanced gameplay features.
25:35: 🎮 Comparison of plot similarities between Final Fantasy 9 and 16, with a recommendation to play FF9 for its characters.
34:00: 💭 Critique of the convoluted plot and lack of meaningful addition to the story in Final Fantasy VII: Rebirth.
42:34: 🕹 Speculation on the origins of the Multiverse concept in Final Fantasy VII Remake.
50:50: ⚔ A powerful character aims to own the Multiverse to become a god due to inability to win.
58:35: 🎮 Speculating on potential Final Fantasy remakes, highlighting challenges with Final Fantasy 8 storyline.
1:07:33: 🎮 Speculation on potential family relationships between characters in Final Fantasy VII.
1:15:23: 🎮 Comparing characters' strengths in Final Fantasy VII Remake and discussing Kate Sith's combat effectiveness.
1:23:30: 💬 Comparison between Final Fantasy 8 music tracks, disputing Extreme vs. One-Winged Angel, with appreciation for Griever boss.
1:32:05: 💭 Exploring the impact of alternate worlds and universes in storytelling, with a focus on character choices and consequences.
1:40:17: 🎮 Excitement for new Final Fantasy games, discussing endings, and desire for unique gameplay experiences.
Recap by Tammy AI
If more games were like rebirth in terms of length and lack of DLC I wouldn’t complain about the $70 price tags
Agreed. Rebirth felt massive in a way I don't think any other game has felt to me. I'm still kinda in disbelief at this game existing as it is. Can't imagine what part three will be like with the Weapons and what happens in the Northern Crater at the end.
@@Spaciousfoot Characterisation in a character rich, story driven game is not bloat - it's the meat and potatoes of the entire story experience. Go cope somewhere else.
If you wanted to rush to the end then that’s fine but I enjoyed fighting all the optional bosses and doing all the side quests for extra character lore and interactions.
@@Spaciousfootyou did not platinum it. Stop capping bro
@@Spaciousfoot that’s bull. No you didn’t. No way
The multiverse thing was just an excuse so they could make Sephiroth's following Cloud into Super Smash Bros. canon.
Multiversal shenanigans made them Japanese
Sounds like a stupid excuse considering smash Bros is a fun series that doesn't need to have anything to do with plot lines from the real games
@@anonony9081 it's a joke, dude. Don't take it too seriously
Exactly. It’s all so Sephiroth can give Smash despair.
@@dearthofdoohickeys4703 it was more Sephiroth bending reality just to ruin Cloud's day because he was bored lol
Also Seph said he doesn’t want a multiverse, he wants to implode them into one.
21:31 Aeriths trial running around trying to help her dying mother kicked me in the feels
i teared up. my sister teared up when she got there. then we teared up again seeing it on youtube lol
Aerith dies 4hrs in the game?? Dude, you're not even out of Midgar by then. How come none of you noticed that? It's more like 20 25 hrs, about half way into the game.
I noticed. Why would anyone think 4 hours?? There is SOOO much you gotta do. Even if you skipped every fight, you couldn't finish disc 1 in 4 hours
Ikr? It’s at _least_ 10 hours, roughly half a fast casual playthrough.
Say what you will about multiverse and such, but I love how it allowed ambiguity in this game in general and Aerith's fate in particular. I didn't play FF7 as a kid, I played it first in college after FFX. By then I heard all the memes about her death, so I missed the shock value that Drinker mentions.
Going into this game with its alternate timeline stuff meant I had no idea what would happen for once. Would Cloud save her, or would she still die?
I cheered when Cloud parried the sword. I froze in horror when perception glitched, the sword bloodied and Aerith fell. I cheered again when she showed up to fight alongside Cloud, then my heart sank when I realized she seemed to really be dead. I sat through the credits in mourning, finally experiencing the old memes of a Aerith's death breaking the heart of grown men.
Also, on another Aerith note that didn't come up in the stream, her song in the theater was *beautiful*. That just may be my all time favorite beautiful video game scene.
indeed. seeing my 17 year old play remake, I legit LOVE his reactions on the game. He knows Aerith dies in the OG game, not knowing if she's alive? why is Zack alive? And yeah we had to leave some things out including Aerith's song, because let's be honest, we could have made a 10 hour stream on this game lol
You didn't though. The impact was nothing like it was before, whether you were expecting it or not. As even if they wanted to change it, they handled that change terribly. It had been quiet in the past, a massive weight of sadness and loss. This whole sequence was was subtle as a brick. What a mess.
Always an honor spending time with the Drinker and meeting Endymion was a blast. Hope i didn't get TOO drunk lol
But what a GREAT time with these guys.
Good job dude! You were very knowledgeable and I enjoyed how you were able to explain certain elements of the story. Not finished with the vod yet but I wished someone brought up how Sephiroth is the same one from Advent Children hence the wing.
@@aytony4090 awe thanks Tony. I got a LITTLE drunk and get nervous because the drinker and Endymion are so well versed I worry I come across as a moron.
Your comments humble me
@@bluecollarloser6654 12:31 I wonder if you know about Xenosaga and Xenoblade Chronicles?
@@zillauniverse7208 of course. I LOVED Kos-Mos. Sadly I didn't beat Xenosaga 3 and Then Xenoblade Chronicles, sadly I've been SO busy that I haven't played them myself, but I watched RUclips videos on the story. It just hits the point that owning a Xbox Series X, Ps 5 AND a switch, my time is limited.
I often joke with my kid, enjoy now being 17 boy, I miss the days of spending all night with Fei or Crono or Alex from Lunar, Tidus from 10 and Lighting from 13. The beauty now of RUclips is I can be at work and listen to others breakdown these franchises which I love.
I remember when I first got into Phantasy Star Online the first character I made was named Grahf lol and gave him all black armor. What a beast of a character. At some point I'll dam sure listen to some RUclips videos of a Xenosaga play through.
One thing that's curious is assessing enemies. Doing the protorelic quests, you encounter the "Eccentric Swordsman" who then becomes Gilgamesh once you assess him in his final fight, and it overwrites his old combat data. The same thing with Roche: his motorbike boss data is overwritten with his Jenova-enhanced boss data later on. If you assess Sephiroth in the ending fights, there are two separate entries for him despite looking identical. Either it's to differentiate the two fights, in which case why did they not do it for Gilgamesh and Roche, or you fought two different Sephiroths. Or it's an oversight.
I'm of the mind that Aerith is dead and primarily exists in Cloud's head. The whole party battles Jenova Lifeclinger and they start the fight with full limit gages, except for Cloud, because he cannot accept that Aerith is dead.
You even get a superchat at 1:34:11 that mentions Cloud speaking muted words when holding Aerith's body, and it was confirmed (at least with Remake) that Brianna White recorded her saying Zack's name in the playground scene, which was similarly muted. It's entirely possible that Aerith's funeral after the fight did occur and Cloud has just blocked it from his memory and the view of the player, because the party members are still there mourning.
As for why Sephiroth is doing what he's doing and why he needs Cloud, and why there's "7 seconds till the end," we'll just have to see. They can still throw us curveballs in part three.
The in game cinematics are insane. That final boss fight is insane.
Mid battles transitions are crazyyy
dont get the credit it deserves for the engineering achievement it actually is
Rebirth not selling well still shocks me because this game was fantastic. One of the best games I’ve ever played in my entire life. The combat, the music, the story, the characters, the mini games. They do not make games like this very often.
As far as the ending goes, I think Cloud is just deeply mentally unstable. He’s the unreliable narrator, same as he was in OG and we are seeing everything through his eyes and he refuses to believe that Aerith is dead. That’s why we don’t get to see the funeral scene. Which did happen, Tifa is a complete wreck, she just lost a close friend in Aerith and is watching her other close friend lose his mind. Everybody just witnessed Cloud lay Aerith to rest but Cloud doesn’t accept it. He’s in denial just like he was with Zack. I also believe that the version of Aerith that Cloudcloud is seeing could be Jenova trying to warp Clouds mind. Look back to how many times it was said that Jenova can take the form of those you love those you hate those your fear.
Guess we will find out in 4 years. All and all Rebirth was a fantastic game hopefully it gets to PC fast and sells like crazy because this game deserves it .
I think the game is great especially with the combat system, the music, the scenery of all the towns. I thought especially seeming Kalm in the beginning was mesmerizing. But I do have my issues with the story with the different worlds or timelines. Alot of other forms of media have been using this same trope for years and it's just lazy IMO. Can they bring it together for a satisfying conclusion, I believe so, but it's gonna make it harder when you've already set your story behind the 8 ball
@@imyoursuperbeast8220 yeah I completely agree. I am not a fan of the multiple timeline stuff. It seems like they’re trying to merge it into one singularity, which I really hope is the case. With everything they still have left, the weapon fights, going to rocket town, going into the outer space, Wutai, actual Chocobo breeding and racing, there’s no need for convoluted timeline nonsense.
Console exclusivity badly hurt the games sales. I know three people who wanted to play this game but don't have a PS5. Almost half the people I know who wanted to play it couldn't. It was already a harder sell because it's a direct sequel, but it was made worse because it's already been a few years and so many people who played Remake on the PS4 didn't manage to get a PS5. I disagree with Endy that story related issues were the reason the game fell below sales expectations. The game is amazing. It's just too expensive and difficult for a lot of people to buy a PS5.
You are shocked a ps4 title with 10x the install base sold more than a ps5 title?
@@WayStedYou PS5 just passed 50 million consoles sold as of EoY 2023. So yeah….shocked it didn’t sale well only selling just above 2 million.
I disagree about main story not being there until the finale. To me the main story begins right after leaving Shinra Tower. Up to that point we're exposed to tons of information and how it affects characters (especially Cloud, Aerith and Red XIII) and once the heroes are out, they want answers. If that's not a motivation or a main story, I don't know what is.
I'm not one of remakes biggest fans but rebirth despite my trepidation I caught myself randomly smiling just exploring the world's listening to music in towns and character conversations...it was superb...I did get sidequest fatigue around gongaga but the game was brilliant.
There were scenes I feel didn't live up to the original (seto reveal) and the end boss battle dragged on that long at the end I forgot what I was supposed to be upset about 😂 but on multiple rewatches I do like what they did with it and they've basically ensured that part 3 is going to be powerful as all fuck when it's revealed to cloud Aerith is dead.
One of the best games I've played in years
Yeah i plan to have remake saves for the summons and delete remake to play rebirth when it is available for steam deck
There is still another 120+ hours of story still to come. I love it so far. I loved the original. I played it many times and I was 20 when it released in 1997. I can’t wait to see how they wrap it all up. All the big payoffs will be in the finale
I was also the same age (going on 21)! Keen to see where the game kicks off. Heck, it could even kick off in Rocket Town. What's to say, that ending scene when the Tiny Bronco takes off could well be in that region even. Can't wait to see the rest of the map too!
Sakaguchi was not part of the remakes. He created Final fantasy and came up with the concept and story plan of final fantasy 7. I think without him FF7 remakes are going to have a convoluted ending that isn’t as satisfying as the original.
Sakaguchi wrote Aerith’s death based on his mother’s if I’m recalling details correctly. It’s really strange to see Drinker and Endy give SE such as pass on Rebirth that essentially spits in the face of the original. If they wrap up the final part with a new happy ending, then it’s a cheap fanfic rewrite. If they wrap up with the same ending as the original, then all the padding and convoluted timelines are all meaningless fan service. IMO no current SE staff can direct good games anymore.
Was the original ending satisfying though? I always thought it ended rather abruptly and without much conclusion.
You thought the ending of the og was satisfying? 🤣🤣 no disrespect but the ending of the og leaves alot to be desired people act as if the og is this perfect masterpiece that cant be improved but its not its got alot of flaws and it is way too ambiguous and not in a good way. Rebirth has already surpassed it in many ways especially since we actually know the origins of the black materia and alot of the lore behind the cetra.
I'm slowly playing through the OG at the moment, I can say pretty confidently say that there's so much that the Remake is doing much better. Well, so far. Remake really does feel so much more fleshed out and it often draws attention to things that were just waved off before. I feel like the OG has become the Abridged version. Don't get me wrong though, I still pay all the respect to the OG and I do share your concern that the ending might get too convoluted. But, I'm still loving what I'm seeing so far and I hope Remake not only sticks the landing but also gives more than what the OG gave too.
@@tigerking8165it's nothing like a cheap fanfic rewrite. Kazushige Nojima wrote much of the original story and he's greatly expanded on the lore bringing in elements from Lifestream Black and White, Advent Children, Traces of Two Pasts, etc. I'm not expecting you to read the books outside of the game but it's overly fascinating. He's tying in a lot!
It's cute that they think Nomura won't make a convoluted mess. Laughing KHfans.jpg
kitase is the writer. Not nomura
@@Oimae You're both wrong. Kitase was the producer for this. Kojima was the 'creative director'. Nojima was the main writer for Rebirth.
@@garywood97 Nomura still have the final say and hes the main reason of all this multi world crap in every game he was the write , KH.jpg . This dude as to go retired already , a bunch of shit endgame once again
@@illumina91 What? Have you actually seen the crap Nojima writes ? All the compilation stuff? FF8? They are on agreement on this. Not to mention all the fate crap that was 100% Toriyama. Nomura is to blame for this partly sure, but so it's everybody else, and even more so in some cases. Kitase wanted to make this shit even more insane.
I could hear these fellas talk about FF7 all day
Awesome chat fellas! But I have to reccomend that you look into "The Landi Lodge" and his video breaking down how FF7 Rebirth is NOT a Multiverse.
If youre more casually into FF7 its easy to make that mistake, but if you know the LORE and how the Lifestream works its clear as day.
I know. I’m so surprised that they have so much knowledge of all of the FF games and FF7 compilation, but don’t understand the lifestream.
I don't believe it's a multiverse scenario at all. There's only one lifestream with multiple worlds - definitely a purgatory sorta thing. Also, I'm of the mind that Cloud and Tifa belong together especially when he always opens up to her and never to Aerith - their conversation in Gongaga notwithstanding. Also back in Remake, during the Chapter 14 resolutions, Aerith told Cloud that he cannot fall in love with her too.
The voice cast too is outstanding. John Eric Bentley as Barret and Britt Baron's Tifa were standouts for me. Part of me wants an Advent Children DLC after Part 3 with the updated visuals and current voice cast which would be amazing! As for Dirge of Cerberus, I'd love for them to use the new visuals and continue with what Vincent's mechanics will be like for Part 3. Then there's the secret ending that involves Genesis too...
Now, there's a video focusing on The First Soldier aspect of Ever Crisis that also looks into Sephiroth's origins. If you don't want to pay the game, just watch that 2 hour clip.
Also, I agree with Endymion about a potential FFVI Remake. Two games to cover Balance and Ruin would be amazing and there's unfinished sub-plots that can be resolved too, like Shadow's dreams - and whether he's Relm's father or not...
In Remake Chapter 14 Aerith sorta has an awareness that she is destined to die, she's saying for Cloud "Please don't fall in love with me" because it'll be increasingly more painful for both of them. It's not her actively pushing Cloud away, at least that's how I approached that scene. In that same scene too Cloud says he'll be coming for her and she says with a grin, If that's what you want.. thank you. She appreciates that Cloud cares for her.
Now in regards to Tifa opening up to Cloud in Rebirth, yes I acknowledge Cloud did tell Tifa things he didn't tell the others in the party however I find it hard to equate that with theyre the best couple for one another. Even in my own relationship my partner will sometimes say to me, 'this conversation is not for you' and request that I leave the house for a bit while he hatches things out. Does that mean my partner loves me less? No it's just I wasn't the ideal person to talk to at that moment of time.
Now when they (Cloud and Tifa) leaned in, yeah that's a better convincing argument because I too also thought they were gonna kiss.
Anyway I'm just kindly suggesting that Square did a phenomenal job on how Cloud has handled his relationship with Tifa and- his relationship with Aerith and for me anyway it's not as black and white as some fans are saying.
John Eric Bentley was excellent, totally agree.
Two reasons for the multiverse one it rases the stakes its possible sepheroth can win, its possible aerith could live. At least thats what we thought.
Second it allows this boss battle set up for a three parter it would not have been good to split the original into three parts and not have a high stakes boss battle in each game. It also allows sepheroth to be a ever present threat in the game, he actually isn't in the original all that much in this one hes always messing with cloud from the very first part of the remake on.
I think the final boss battle is going to explain what was going on in the original, remember the final boss battle in the weird wormhole that was sort of clouds mind. It sort of seems similar to some of the things happening in remake with the wormhole to alternate universes and the edge of creation.
It's continuing the story. Sephiroth knows if the story continues as it he will lose. He knows that he fights Cloud head on he could beat . When things are on the line even with all his insecurities Cloud would still fight like hell to fight for those he loves. That hidden power has to be destroyed or Sephiroth will lose to him again. The only thing holding Cloud to his humanity is his past and Tifa is the key. That's why Sephiroth tried to kill Tifa. Aerith no matter how hard she tries cannot put Cloud together again. Especially now Aerith is trying to see her destiny through. She has to set aside her desires. Make no mistake she does not want to die but she said it's not about her and she will do her part to beat Sephiroth. But Zack is trying to save and willing to sacrifice that it will be Cloud and not him to save her. It's 2 love stories, childhood friends trying heal each other and starcrossed lovers burdened by their destinies. This multiverse is not like the multiverse of MCU where you just a reserve character. If you notice the timeline where Zack is the dying world where there is no more mako and besides that Sephiroth is essentially hunting her from one world and another. There is only one lifestream and people die there memories go to the lifestream. But the difference with Sephiroth he have jenova cells enabling him to resist being absorbed by the lifestream. So he threw away his humanity into the lifestream but for his to exist someone has to remember him, that's Cloud. For Cloud to remember he must hold onto his trauma. This Aerith is from the lifestream, if you see her at the beginning of ff7 remake she suddenly look down the alley and a short one winged angel played. Death in ff7 is not just for the end of the character because memories of those characters affect the living characters in negative and positive way. Cloud holding on to his trauma keeps Sephiroth alive for example. Even in Advent Children, Cloud has PTSD and the illness there, geostigma, affects those are emotionally weak or young. If you think of the story as how characters react to their past is what shapes their characters. For me ff7 remake is the right way to make a sequel.
Is there a way they could do it poorly or would you like anything?
@@EdgarFriendlysCivicsTeacherGive me an example of what you would like.
@@Tootongtaoako that's an easier question than the one I asked you, I can see why you deflected away from it. But an actual sequel would be nice. Advent Children (the remakes differ in that it parasitises the original directly) had very little plot and was a retread of the arc Cloud went through the original, I would've liked to have seen the next stage rather than a poor man's highlight reel.
If Cloud has PTSD, an accurate representation of that (or any) could've been good. I'd happily drop several if not all of the action scenes for any character development. But I suppose I could respond more simply to your question:
"Anything that doesn't require me to tell myself a bunch of headcanon to convince myself I watched a better story"
Love these chats keep it up there's a wealth of games worthy
Maybe even have streams to talk about predictions of other games like reminiscing the Mass Effect Trilogy then how it relates to Mass Effect 4
I loved listening to you guys, now that I'm an adult I miss nerd talk this brings me back to my highschool and college days because this is the type of conversations we would have over lunch or beers
Watched the whole thing but was behind stopped by afterwards to leave a comment
The only problem with a new (somewhat new) fresh story is what happens when the novelty of it wears off? Personally I’d rather just have the known quantity
I've replayed the original like 20 times and I never felt like I needed the story to change.
I played Remake part 1 and after beating it on hard, begrudgingly finished plating it and never desired to play again.
@@BaldorfBreakdownssame. Remake started fun, but when the ghosts appeared the game slowed down to a slog and I had a hard time reaching the end. Wouldn’t touch it ever again. A disappointment.
Counterpoint: Panning a new story when told that the story will not be the same as the original is what leads to remake and remaster hell like the one we're currently in.
I'm not saying you need to like or enjoy rebirth over the original, but if you refuse to look at different approaches to the same story over the original, newer ideas will fall to the wayside and devs will be less likely inclined to take risks. That'll lead to stagnation and retreading of the same things again and again with less and less impact and the eventual homogenization of media into formulaic drudgery.
Sometimes the audience needs to be as willing to take risks and try things in the same manner devs are, if only to be able to better articulate what they dislike and like so the devs know what direction they should go when adjusting for the future. It's very much fine to try something, dislike it and not want to give it the time of day but your expectations should be even and fair rather than bound to nostalgia if it can be helped--sometimes it can't, especially if something claims it will be a faithful recreation and a great deal is changed from it to suit modern audiences rather than to streamline some of the unintended friction (i.e. adjusting camera mobility and ease of access to UI related things or dropping unnecessary menus over making the big bad a caricature of a disliked political figure or adding modern politics to things that don't need them or where they don't fit). Remake didn't claim it would be fully faithful to the original, though you'll see a large chunk of the audience blaming Nomura for the story changes when he was the advocate for remaining as close as possible to the original.
@seafoam6119
You're in the minority.
I agree with Endymion the "death" was confusing. It feels like when Walking Dead did the Glenn fake out death. I never even played the original game but Aeriths death is so iconic I imagine the writers were conflicted on how to handle it in Rebirth
Watching this reminds me why I don’t play games as an adult. Not that I wouldn’t love too, I just don’t have the time!!! 10hour shifts as a thirteen year old on FF7 and Res Evil were beautiful.
I'm single without kids be even with a job I can't indulge like I want to but still buy like that
The backlog is like 20 games big now😅
Watching other play throughs is probably the best bet if you just don't have enough time to do it yourself. You can fast forward through boring bits, and just watch the story stuff and cool fights.
@@SuperRamos619 I watch others sometimes… sound like a voyeur… ResEvil7 was my first time! That was some crazy fucked up shit!
First spell Jenova birth casts, also the first remake jenova had the ability : STOP 🕛
Implying control over time (and space, with how it always makes the immediate area look different)
It's basically a lovecraftian space horror and so its no wonder it will fuck with anyone who has it inside them..
And in turn give them power.
Maybe I'm just stating the obvious but just my twopence.
Playable vincent and Gaea's cliff hopefully, I'll have fun regardless of whether the ending is a salad
I'm going to London in September to see the music in orchestra
The one consciousness rule is a great insight to navigating the multi-world stuff. Multiverse storytelling always gets messy and it's not unjustifiably viewed as a poor storytelling device. But the one consciousness rule fits with everything so far and makes things easier to understand. If I'm not mistaken I believe they hinted at that idea in the Japanese book about the making of Rebirth.
In the original Aerith and Zack (Advent Children) were always alive in some way in the lifestream and able to communicate directly with Cloud.
I don't see alternative timelines, I see an afterlife, a sort of purgatory. And the lifestream can manifest as people still alive (Marlene) to help guide a soul.
Or it's all just batshit bonkers final fantasy and it really doesn't care what you think it's just taking you on a wild ride.
Either way, one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had and is a masterpiece, a flawed one but still a masterpiece none the less. Cloud was an absolute beast.
Oh and Tifa can't be the lead on that section in part 3, she's also inactive (after Junon escape/find Cloud.) No need to change, it's Cid's chapter. Also, the multiverse is not why it sold less than remake. Remake was PS4, then had a PS5 upgrade. Rebirth was just PS5. That's it....
And the single most important part of part 3 is the reveal of Clouds truth with Tifa; who he is, how he killed Sepiroth etc. That's the biggest and single most important moment in the entire game, not the death of Aerith.
There are quite a few indications that Aerith survived in a different timeline. Here's just one more important one:
Go and rewatch the 'death scene'. You see Sephiroth's sword stuck in the ground after it seemed like Cloud deflected him, then it flashes to another shot when you see the pool of blood emerge. Go back and look at those 2 different shots and you'll see something important: The sword is in 2 DIFFERENT PLACES in the ground. It is NOT showing the same sword twice. It's in 2 completely different places AND 2 different angles in the ground. It is absolutely just showing you 2 different outcomes, not just Cloud being delusional about the 1 outcome.
Good observation. I also noticed the sword at a different angle but I often forget to mention it.
Red can also sense Aerith so I'd like to think she's in another world and him with his animal instincts is more aware of her.
Then again she could be in the lifestream and maybe Red can still be alert of her spirit... We won't know for sure until part 3.
@@ourfamilyaccount The tear in the sky also confirms the 2 timelines theory. Cos why would Cloud be hallucinating that? He didn't even know what it meant when he'd previously seen it. The tear in the sky symbolizes an unstable timeline (i.e every one except the main one), so that exists in the timeline where Aerith survived.
I 100% agree with you Gary and best believe the past week leading up to this stream, I have seen a LOT of people comment very similar to what you said
i still feel like the whole multiverse is a red herring. a way to fool people into thinking they can save aerith. and, just like the whispers in rebirth arent really the same as the ones in remake, the aerith in the 3rd game, wont be really aerith.
to me, the multiverse is over, and sephiroth basically did a crisis on infinit earths kind of culling, in order to merge all verses into the one he wins. even the scene of aerith surviving and then she shows up stabbed, you could see as the result of sephiroth merging both that universe where cloud saved her, with one where he didnt. and he picked the result he wanted.
even in their dialogue sephiroth calls out to cloud not understanding that she is gone.
i mean, the guy most famous trait is the fact he literaly pulled that crap before with zack. and now is doing the same thing, but with aerith.
so yeah, im in the camp that belives she is dead.
also, the game set too many hints that jenova is gonna skinsuit her to mess with the party. they gotta use that in some way in the next game.
@@marcosdheleno Good observation, I can easily picture Square Enix using the Aerith aspect as a red herring. I'm just so drawn to her character that I want to believe the player can save her.
Even if I'm wrong, I'd rather carry that weight and emotional pain when going through the 3rd game.
They might've made it more obvious too with the final prompt, "No promises await a journey's end" so I'm aware my trail of thought might be too optimistic but let me be foolish, let me day dream that there's a possibility our precious flower girl can be saved. Again we'll see... Waiting is the hardest part.
FFVII Rebirth is my Game of the Year! 135 hours of playtime and I adore it ❤❤❤
Amazing characters/gameplay! CHEERS 🍻
110 hours on my first play through, I WANT to play hard mode but ive been SO busy lol
The one consciousness "rule" Drinker brings up is very interesting and I think supported by the times you hop over to Zack's timeline. It's whenever Cloud goes to sleep that we "wake up" in the other timeline.
indeed. cloud is in a wheelchair, aerith is dying in bed in Zack's timeline. When they enter that timeline, they wake up in those positions
I'm weird, I dislike the amount of "freedom" in Rebirth. At first I tried to engage with the side content of Rebirth until I got sick of being 8 to 10hrs between major story beats. I gave up secondary content after Gongaga and my experience with the game got much better. Upon my second play through, going from story moment to story moment just like Remake, my preference was clear.
It certainly creates a feeling of dissonance.
I feel that more of the side content could have been locked and gate kept to be late / endgame content.
They kind of proved with the structure of Corel & the late side quests that they could do something like this.
I think Part 3 will be fantastic. Cloud’s world will be shattered even more than in the original. And his Comeback also more epic
I absolutely loved this chat and watched the whole thing! FF7 has become legendary now. The only thing I wished I had seen more of was commentary from blue collar loser, he kept trying to get a word in but was continuously run over by Endy or Drinker.
I love 16, i love 7 og and remake and rebirth!!! I dont understand why people hate on 16 so much is such a good story great charactares ( i think i just connected with Clive and his whole facing his demons thing... ) but well likes are likes right?? 16 for me is just fantastic 7 rebirth i enjoyed a lot but the ending was just... i dont know how to say it... felt incomplete... and i know is not the complete story but remake felt like an ending!! And this time was like... really this is it??... i dont know...
for 16 its 2 tings.
on one hand you have the people who hate it because its an action rpg, and any action rpg is the scourge of the earth and shouldnt exist.
on the other there are people who dislikes its flaws, like for example equipment is the worst it has ever been since the original game on the nes in how bland it is. or how there's no utility stuff like protect, or haste, and the game focus too much on the cooldown. which makes it kinda like a spam fest. as opposed to other games in the genre like dmc3-4-5 or bayonetta 1-2-3. where you use stuff in a more tactical way, and you can use the attacks as much as you want, but its not always the best option.
that doesnt mean the game is bad, far from it, but i feel like while some people(the vocal minority) gets too heavy handed on their complaints, there are issues that the game does, that do make it lesser than it should, or could achieve.
There absolutely still are stakes in multiverses because even though there are infinite versions of someone YOUR specific someone still can die and be lost.
Ive played Final Fantasy Rebirth, Persona 3 Reload, and Stellar Blade
It been a great few months but now its basically a drag until Black Wukong, maybe I can finally get to the backlog
23:39 My favorite scene as well. So thrilled the Drinker loved it too.
I 100% agree with the Drinker about FFXVI. I started off LOVING that game, but over the course of my 90 hours with it, and in the following months, I grew to ultimately hate it.
I appreciate all the praise and I do agree with you all, but I have to say that it is not a multiverse.
What is happening is you are seeing the Lifestream corporealized and you are seeing Cloud denying reality.
This concept and idea stems from Nojima’s books and previous writings, Yogachara Buddhism, soul transference, Kabbalistic Law, Hebrew Mythology and so on all in the context of the Lifestream and reincarnation. It is not a multiverse, nor does the game say anything about a multiverse.
I don’t care what anyone says, I fucking love this game, I just got the platinum and I am eagerly waiting for part 3. This is how you balance good gameplay and an interesting narrative, unlike other terrible games like new god of war. I was gripped with the story the whole way through, easily my goty
You realize you can love a game _and_ admit it has problems. No game is perfect. Sticking your hand in the sand about its flaws doesn’t to it any favours.
39:00 YOOOOOOOOOO THATS A FUCKN GREAT THEORY!!!!
I'm working on my platinum trophy. Damn thing is actually a challenge. I think the game was great for what it was. I appreciate the cheese, especially when Red did his dance at the boat card tournament.
Story is muddled at the end, but that's par for the course for anything related to Numora.
Chadley's a menace.
Not trying to argue here but apparently numora was the only one from the Dev team from the original that wanted a faithful remake it was everyone else that wanted to add the new stuff
Good luck with the combat sims, took me days to complete
@jacobpennington7947 After Kingdom Hearts, I just don't believe that. 🤣
If Jenova existing is why sephiroth has his power and can't die and can control the whispers because he has Jenova cells, then that means Zach and Cloud can also do the same. Sephiroth is messing with Cloud's mind so he can't see it, but why doesn't Zach?
Only Cloud can see Aerith at the end, similar to how he's the only one to see Sephiroth at the beginning. I thought Aerith took Sephiroth's place in Cloud's mind or something like that.
Will be interesting to see the finale...in a few years 😄
excellent comment lol its gonna be a long 3 years
@@bluecollarloser6654I love it when people say Part 3 will take 4 years because of the 4 year gap between Remake and Rebirth, but there’s no way Part 3 doesn’t release in 2027 (aka OG FF7’s 30th Anniversary).
@@campber9908 I mean I JOKED about it taking 4 years, but my god you're a legend for reminding me 2027 is the 30th anniversary. Well said my friend
@@campber9908 Yeah, the director said it shouldn't take as long this time. The same team is already working on part 3, so there isn't going to be any staff mix-ups. Most of the heavy work was done in making Remake and Rebirth. Plus, this time - hopefully - there's no giant cough-cough outbreak that's gonna put a massive slow down on everything, like it did with RB.
@@bluecollarloser6654 hopefully it's worth the wait, however long it takes, like rebirth was 🙂
2027 would be cool, as long as they don't take shortcuts to make it happen!
If the remake 8 or 9 like they have 7, then fleshing out each games story and lore would be epic, but don't turn into trilogies...like 7'S remake.
I remember reading that FF7's story was changed mid production. Sometimes I wonder how many game's stories are rushed or slapped together just to get it shipped?
7 development (and i mean OG 7) was a shitshow. at one point, the game was so diferent, they decided to turn it into a diferent game... which became parasite eve.
I feel like they should’ve just let Jenovah be the last boss instead of Sephiroth(again). Kind of killed it for me cause the fight was so long. It would’ve been more impactful if Aeirith and Zack coming back for the final fight was saved for the third part. Loved the game overall.
One of the best discussions. Please review rebirth like you would review movies!
Option 3: Sephiroth completed merging realities, which is why Aerith died, he merged two realities. But it does mean Zack is in the main reality.
Cloud sees Aerith after blocking out him dropping her in the pool and after a Jenova headache.
Also the new timelines dont have lifestreams, which is why they are all dying.
Sephiroth might want to merge multiverses because the Cetra used fate to scatter Jenova that way. Merge the timelines to force the Jenova reunion.
The word multiverses being used in a FF7 discussion is so anathema to me. Why did this trope have to show up here? It's such a terrible, horrible trope to use.
@@JakobusMaximus As was mentioned in the stream, if you make death not mean death you remove a ton of dramatic affect that death truly has.
What I am hoping is that all this analysis of timelines is pointless because Cloud is just so messed in the head by what Hojo did to him and Zach. The funeral scene will return later when he has to face it that she's been dead the whole time. But I'm not holding my breath for that outcome.
@JakobusMaximus
It's not a multiverse though. It's just a bunch of temporary/dying parallel worlds, connected to the Lifestream.
@@Ukaran So, Donnie Darko worlds. Great.
@@Ukaran Oh, that totally doesn't sound exactly like a multiverse.
The initially confusing thing about the FF7 story is that there is a plot mechanic called the lifestream. It often gets mistaken as multiverse for people that are unfamiliar with it. It is a bit convoluted, but the story makes a lot more sense if you know that.
I enjoyed it, but the multiverse stuff is played out. It doesn't need it.
I don't mind multiple timelines as long as its made really clear where they diverged and why. It's certainly not clear right now. They could save it with a really tight flashback scene showing how all of the changes happened in game 3. But let's face it. That's really not Nomura's style.
@@bigmediafan How often does that happen though?
Multiple timelines and multiverses need to disappear. I can't think of anything produced in the past ten years that was improved by them.
@BusesAreFatCars ill grant you that there aren't many. Butterfly effect springs to mind. Sliding doors, maybe. Terminator and avengers (I liked the films less and less as time went by, but I think they handled the time travel reasonably well).
@@bigmediafan I believe it worked for Terminator so long as they weren't leaning into the alternate timeline/reality thing.
As soon as they did, the stakes and investment in the story goes out the window. As everything is subject to change.
With Avengers, while it wasn't horrific, the time travel plot felt more like a TV show and I firmly believe that the movies would have been much better off without it.
It's something that's really not easy to do well and I don't think that the Final Fantasy writers have the talent these days to pull it off.
I don’t think the fumbled it. I like not knowing and getting to theorize and speculate what is going on.
Same, 16 i completely forgot about, im trying to think of the story and i realized i was thinking about 15
FF7 Return is the best bet for the naming scheme based on the last track of FF7 Rebirth's soundtrack (Rebirth was part of the last track's name on Remake's soundtrack). If would name part 3, FF7 Resonance. It means to deepen and prolong while also being a more intense version of Reverberation.
Can't wait to watch this.... but I have to finish the game first!! I'll come back later😅
sephy is hunting Aeriths and he plans to merge all time lines into one using the black materia. He then wants to kills aerith prime so then nothing can stop him any longer and he is useing diffrent clouds to help him kill the diffrent aeriths. becasue in every time line with aerith there is a cloud.
Defeating the arbiters of fate at the end of remake is the reason zack survived. It changed past and future events.
well said Luke
But he never survived in the main timeliness. He's still dead.
It definitely changed my investment in playing the remakes.
I bloody love this game, and I'll defend it all day. But even I can't justify this stuff. You can't just say things like "it changed the past and the future".
If you're going to have a time manipulation plot in fiction, you have to first establish the rules. So that the audience can follow the logic. The game doesn't do this. It doesn't even try to justify it after the fact. These explanations are just fans trying to make sense of the nonsense.
@@bigmediafan think of it like this . The whispers and the arbiter of fate like red said in remake are the will of the planet. It wanted things to remain the same in remake because it survived but humanity was wiped out ( Refering to og ending with red and his family with no humanity in sight 500 years into the future) . When the team defeated the arbiter of fate in the spiritual form of the lifestream in gave both Aerith and sephiroth more control over the whispers in rebirth .
In remake we know sephiroth had some control over the grey whispers ( we see him talk through one when cloud was sleeping) .and I think aerith also had some control over the grey whispers when referring to zack ( zack believes the wind or whispers that saved him was aerith )
I believe sephiroth traveled to the past through the lifestream ( in remake we see him open a portal to the spiritual form of the lifestream ) and aerith sent her memories to her past self through the lifestream .
The lifestream contains memories, knowledge and emotions of those who past away or returned to the planet .
As we know in og and advent children aerith can exist spiritually after her death ( she stopped meteor in og and she cured geo stigma in advent children)
6:08 I put in over 300 hrs into this game and platinumed. I freakin HATED Gongaga because of the hills and the cliffs and you couldn’t tell how to get to where you needed to go on the map. I loved Nibelheim
Nobuo Uematsu is 65 now. So let’s assume he’s gonna make till the end of the game. And if you look at the soundtrack and it’s 150 + tracks you see that he was the writer or rewriter of at least one third of the tracks. He’s still pretty much involved.
This game is about to be one of the greatest creations out of Japan, ever. When it’s completed.
The expert cucking level of Vincent leaning on the Bronco while we kill the pirate/treasure hunt monsters ⚰️🤡
😂😂😂😂😂 no
I played FF7 when it came out snd it is still my favorite Game. But i will never touch this Abominarion.
Not even close. All they had to do was remake FF7 with modern production standards...and they couldn't even get that right. Instead they added alternate timelines and multiverses so now it's a completely different story altogether
Makes me crease looking at all these butt hurt purists 🤣 keep crying 😂
Did I miss something? Did Aerith and Cloud make any other promises to each other except the one she ask him to in the end? They literally made a whole song about having no promises to keep,but if that’s the only promise made wouldn’t it stand to reason that that is Aerith at the end? Then it says no promises await at journeys end…which leads me to believe that it’s not promised that Cloud will be the one to beat Sephiroth. Aerith also talks about how what’s she’s doing is trying to save the world and Cloud…we know from lifestream black that Sephiroth is able to keep coming back because he’s linked his core to Clouds memories…Sephiroth also says he won’t allow cloud to end and saves him several times. Maybe they’re gearing up to kill cloud and have Zack take his place in the final battle? Or maybe him and Aerith help from the lifestream? Idk. That would honestly be a better ending than them just going along with the original ending. I mean the whole premise of remake was to defy fate, yet we’re still on course with it so far. What was the point of that? Unless Zack being alive is to save cloud by helping him remember who he was so his mind isn’t susceptible to sephiroth because of his weakened state mentally? Could be why Marlene says they have to fix cloud before Aerith wakes up or she’ll die…because that makes it sound like she saw Aerith being saved by Cloud. Not being killed infront of him. I’m just wondering aloud here lol. Those are the things that bother me though about the ending of rebirth. If anyone has anything to clarify any of that for me, please do so. I’ve been stuck on it since I beat the game lol.
You should have invited Orion85 and The Hylian to this discussion to get more of an opposite perspective on the game.
The change to Dyne's death, the actual ending and the padding (towers/challenges could have been cut in half) were the only negatives to me. Amazing game.
Honestly, no matter what explanation you can give for "multiple timelines," Aerith's death will always feel more meaningful to me than her survival. Even if the writers and theorists can make it believable, it just doesn't feel right to me. Something felt off. It made the story come across as being more generic and having lower stakes.
I wasn't expecting this but wow awesome upload
I wish they gave their opinions on the possible SquareEnix panic caused by the lack of sales for Rebirth and how that will affect Part 3. I just don't want Part 3 to have a half-cooked open world that suffers from budgeting constraints. If Square had to, for budgeting reasons, make part 3 slightly linear, tight, story driven, action heavy with an emotional finale that doesn't leave me with more questions, I'd be happy. No bloat, please. And they better not hint at a Part 4 or possible sequel.
Aerith’s death scene in Rebirth is MORE true to Cloud's character than in the og. Cloud has ALWAYS rearranged memories to cope with trauma. He literally
forgot Zack's death after seeing him die right in front of him. Why wouldn't he do the same with Aerith's death? Him forgetting she died not only makes MORE sense than the original, but it also sets up for a GIANT conflict between Cloud and the crew. I think this was all very well done.
Agreed 💯
It was an amazing game imo
All of the different worlds exists within the same lifestream the end of this series will be the end of all the timelines into one singular timeline.
13:28 I only agree with that if the new story is actually better. Most of the time these days it's insultingly worse in a remake.
29:15 Maybe that's more of a relationship progressing from different stages? Given that Cloud would know Tifa better or longer than the others (depending on how you think about it).
I am so glad you guys loved this game. In many ways it is a really flamboyant and colorful game, there is a lot of gay stuff in it, but it is also hundreds of other things. So I am glad people who are more "conservative" loved the game without getting cought up in that.
Like it is so many things, and the "diversity" is just natural.
I started watching the drinker for his movie reviews, so I was surprised and delighted to see that he had a video on Remake and was hoping he’d do something for Rebirth. I am with his and blue collar loser’s take on the ending and am glad the drinker is intrigued at what SE is doing. I do think like endymion does, that death needs to mean something and initially I was wary of the use of the multiverse as a plot device to subvert death. The drinker has some videos those concepts being so important to the success or failure of media too. But I agree that SE is using the “multiverse” concept very carefully and the drinker brought up great points of it being linked to only a few characters, and the idea of only one consciousness being present though there may be several physical bodies of a character, with the end goal of the different worlds eventually becoming one again. Aerith is my favorite character. I admit I am so happy this trilogy is giving me a little more time with her.
They went with brand recognition on this one. If they REALLY wanted to tell THIS story, they should have used 8. FF8 had time travel and alternative dimensions in its main plot. They really sandwiched this story into 7 because people know these characters
I absolutely adored rebirth, even though I'm not super keen on the ending its not enough to sour what is very likely goty for me
Rebirth is a masterpiece. GOTY for me so far and its not close. It's a shame that it seems to not have sold well.... the playstation exclusive is killing Final Fantasy
Also, what's the deal with the seven seconds? That line is repeated often enough that it clearly has to mean something, but what?
I assume we're going to find out in game 3. I wondered that myself
7 seconds in the edge of creation is 7 days before Meteor arrives/summoned.
Because its called Final Fantasy 7 hello? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 jk
The whispers and the arbiter of fate in remake was the will of the planet . It wanted things to remain the same in remake because it survived but humanity was wiped out or became extinct ( Refering to og ending with red and his family with no humanity in sight 500 years into the future)
When the team defeated the arbiter of fate ( in the spiritual form of the lifestream )in remake it gave both Aerith and sephiroth more control over the whispers in rebirth ( black whispers = lifestream black and white whispers = lifestream white )
We have seen the spiritual form of the lifestream in crisis core ( zack standing over a pool of water ) , advent children ( aerith talking to cloud ) , remake ( sephiroth opening a portal to where the arbiter of fate was ) and rebirth ( where sephiroth was explaining the multitude of worlds that are within the planet to cloud, where aerith was guiding zack with the follow the yellow flowers and where cloud ,zack and aerith vs sephiroth. )
These multitude of worlds ( are within the planet / lifestream ) that are created are dependent on the characters decisions ( cloud, zack,aerith and sephiroth ). It can be called dream worlds ( cloud was unconscious in the main reality when he was on his date with dream / og aerith and when he was fighting in the sleeping forest ).
I do think aerith is dead in the main reality( spiritually alive like og and advent children ) and alive in the new reality / dream world when cloud saved her ( similar to zack's situation but she can exist in both ).
It makes sense for aerith to be able help cloud vs sephiroth because that battle took place in the spiritual form of the lifestream . i do think it was our aerith ( remake aerith that is vs sephiroth)
When referring to her death it is to show aerith is trying to protect cloud's sanity when telling him it's ok in spiritual form and when referring to the end i think cloud is aware that she is in the lifestream but doesn't accept that she is dead . He knows he saved her ( when aerith said I saw what u did for me cloud thank u then cloud said thank me later during the fight with sephiroth)
I do think in part 3 he going to learn to accept her death and everything else
The fact that there is all this discussion is so bothersome. It's unneeded. The original game proved that. The only reason it's in there is the new devs wanting the game to be "theirs" in a fit of pride. It would have been a better game following the original more closely.
@@JakobusMaximus kitase , Nomura and nojima ( writer of ff7 ) worked on og .
These new elements that are being added are more expanding on the world / lifestream , characters and lore of not just og but also the compilation .
I feel they are doing an amazing job with this series of games .
@@JakobusMaximus it is sequel to the ff7 overall
To me, the “what” and “why” is super clear, it’s just the “how” that I need explained
No way in fuck did blue collar get to the city of the ancients in 4 hours
Late to the party on this one but I need Aerith to be alive in some form. If they have to LOST season 6 it so that she's in the next part then so be it.
i still belive she is gone, and the game is just gonna trick the players into beliving they can save her.
the whole point of the remake is to give the same experience again, but how do you pull it off, when you already know the ending? their answer is, to murky the water, to make people think things are going haywire... and yet, 99% of it is still basically the same.
im givving you thumbs up for this content Critical Gamer.
Just some Gamers talking about games, no extra drama!!!!! When listening, you know they knew their stuff.
They have interesting ideas/ opinions.
Even if I disagree on some points, we can all agree to disagree....its nice....
If you want to do more of this, go on....its chill and fun ;-)
Thanks, I was looking forward to this. Before seeing the vid. I personally think the ending was terrible. I don't think people who thought it was good, are wrong though. In a sense they did eliminate the central theme of the original, even when they kept most of the original intact. They also relied too much on Sephiroth because he is easy to recognize. EDIT: That guy at the bottom, doesn't know what Jenova is? lol
I'd be more interested in the FF7R series if I could stand Testuya Nomura's BS.
Final Fantasy VII may very well have the best cast of characters in all of gaming. Obviously Cloud is an icon, and Tifa and Aerith are a pair of legendary female main characters who still get talked about like Rei and Asuka decades later. Then you have a very well written character in Barret, especially how he's written in the remake, and after that an endearing and timeless ensemble to back them up. Oh yeah, and then there's fricking SEPHIROTH who is still the most badass villain in RPG history. From there you get the turks, Rufus, Hojo, the Shinra directors... Pound for pound this game oozes more character than any other FF game, and basically any other game at all if you ask me. I'm so glad the made a point of establishing the characters so well in the remake and for all the extra effort with the side content. Gives me the same feeling of classic Star Wars.
I think there was only one timeline until the end of AC. Somehow with the death of Sephiroth he is creating all the timelines to try and win.
Sepheroth: " She can become people you hate.. even people you love.." Drinker : " Nah it'll be fine".
This will be the most rarest game on the console. A physical copy will be so hard to find by 2024. I say buy a copy just to resale.
I wept for the Barrett/Dyne scene and Aerith with her mother. I’ve never cried in a game. And like you said Drinker, because of that, regardless of how tired I am of multiverses, this game did something special. It made me look at my daughters and wife differently. Never thought a video game could affect me like that.
Sephiroth isn't trying to rule the "multiverse", he's trying to manipulate events so that he wins. Save Aerith? Drag in an Aerith who died. He's also trying to destroy the multiverse so he can feed off the pain and devastation.
Sorry but I can't take this panel serious without the greatest gamer of our time Gary. 😂
I liked queens blood untill i got to the end and found there was zero reward for playing it. Triple Triad from 8 gave you the best items and accessories in the game for comparison
FF8 is great! And the most romantic, love Squall and Rinoa
I'm one of the minority that not only didn't hate ff8, but actually thought it was the best one.
I enjoyed the game a lot just wished it wasn't so damned long, really needed a editor to come in and slap the idiots who want to put in 1500 sidmissions and main story beats that go no where
I’m playing through it myself (already know all the main story beats from friends who have played it), and it does seem to fall into the Ubisoft trap of most of the open-world stuff just being filler. I kind of wish it had more side-quests that focused on the characters themselves in a similar way to supporting cast’s Tales in Ghost of Tsushima.
I’m curious to replay it shipping the optional parts to see how fast it feels, first time through I did pretty much everything and was around 130hrs but anytime it felt slow it was because I was doing something optional so it’s hard to complain that it takes too long if you’re doing something you don’t need to be doing
@@campber9908All the side quests feature a character. They did that way better in Rebirth than in Remake.
Anyone who’s played kingdom hearts knows exactly where this is going, super elaborate way of making all the dead characters come back to life so everyone gets a happy ending. And I’m perfectly fine with that
I'd like to think that the "Multiverse" in this game was to imitate the game play experience of Gamers showing the different choices that they made and the various outcomes.
Doubt that's the case though.
It was so the developers had licence to do whatever they wanted and could just write it off as a multiverse thing.
Also that if they got massive backlash they could change things for the following remake installment.
Also as they're creatively bankrupt and saw it in Marvel movies...
Drinker had a pretty good theory buy kyrie ruins it because she's there with Zach in the alternate dimension.
omg The Critical GAMER for REBIRTH LETS GO