I do "drop sets" with a normal rest period between sets. Started doing that decades ago because if I kept the weight the same across sets, I couldn't do very many reps to failure on following sets, so it just made sense to me. I might experiment with doing rapid drop sets with little or no rest just to save time in the gym. Usually, my workout takes 90 minutes. Much of that time is spent resting between sets. If I could reduce that to 45 minutes that would be a big difference. I might even expand my workouts to include more exercises.
Yeah, I see that also. I drop weigh amount to cut down on rest time, as that is to me, wasting time. Max load once and waiting around 15 minutes is not really a workout to me. But, if down at lower weights for a while I am not that tired, I can move back up and do it again.
I mainly do drop-set of reaching failure with a weight and go down and pick up the weights right after. I do these on biceps, triceps, and forearm isolation excercise. I've noticed better growth doing so.
It's interesting that the authors point out that the volume between the two groups was statistically similar: "No significant between-group differences were observed for the average total training volume for a single RT session" Yet, the drop-set group did perform one more set than the conventional group because the drop set group decreased weight 3 times, but also did the initial set of 12 for a total of four sets while the conventional group did 3 total sets. I guess if you run the repxweight numbers they'd come out the same between the groups, but the drop-set group went to failure one more time than the conventional group, which I think is more valuable than saying volume is equated between groups. So, maybe number of times going close to failure is more important than total volume. I don't think the drop sets would work as well with compound movements where a longer rest time has been shown to increase hypertrophy. Drop sets are probably best suited for isolation movements.
Yes I agree 100%. The number of sets taken to failure is likely much more important than total volume load. And yes, this is probably only a good strategy for isolation lifts, but not for compounds 👍
Also your technique and time under tension is also important, my reps are slow and controlled, as I am lifting weights and simply just moving them, I do drop set training, and my first set is an all out heavy set to absolute failure, I add to drop sets, and go to failure on all of them, get between 3-6 reps on my drops, but they are quality reps, which is great for hypertrophy.
I use drop sets for chest and back compound exercises, and I'm seeing great muscle gains. I still go for four sets total on bench press and pullups, but each of those sets is a drop set. For example, I start bench pressing with 160 lb x 6, drop weight 150 x 5, then 140 x 6, then 130 x 6. I do full four sets like that. i come and go from the gym and this is the first time I do this. Six weeks after my first workout and my wife and friends ask me how I look so big in such small period of time. I want to believe it is because all my exercises include drop sets except hip thrust. That's just me, though. I would like to see a study with many individuals doing a workout like mine compared to standard lifting to see what the results say. Thanks for the video.
Great video! I think I'm going to use dropsets by combining it with supersets, where I choose exercise 1 and exercise 2, each targeting a different muscle where I do exercise 1 to or near failure, then do the same with exercise 2, then either go immediately back to exercise 1 again or incorporate a tiny rest before doing so and then repeat until I reach my target number of sets. So the dropsetting mainly comes from a decrease in reps instead of load, as I'm embracing the small rest time in-between each exercise. This means I'm being more time efficient not only by eliminating or almost eliminating resting, but the decrease in reps per set for similar hypertrophy stimulus also increases time efficiency. And the decrease in reps means a decrease in systemic fatigue, allowing for more volume and thus more hypertrophy stimulus per workout, all at the same amount of time or less. But that's just a theory. A hypertrophy theory! Thanks for watching!
I have implemented similar approaches to training too. Currently experimenting with short-rest periods during pyramid sets (increasing load each set for 3-4 sets, followed by decreasing load each set for the next 3-4 sets). Very time-efficient and still a high number of 'effective reps'. Similar concept to what you are planning. No real direct evidence for this type of training - mostly hypothetical at this point 💪
They are dropping weight to continue working out instead of stopping, and with that, it is endurance training. How that equates to big weight lift gains I wouldn't know, but training often intermixes endurance and load. A 5x5 set after a higher weight 5x10 set is also drop set training.
The evidence tends to show great hypertrophy gains from drop-set training compared with traditional training. Difficult to say if it is better or worse at this point, but definitely produces muscle growth. Furthermore, bodybuilders have been doing drop-sets (and other metabolite techniques) for decades to great effect. Also remember that strength gains and muscle growth are two different adaptations. Strength gains are definitely superior with heavier loads 👍
@@FlowHighPerformance1 It would appear your muscle is your muscle and can get stronger and that is it. If you want more bulk you need steroids. Fat is not converted to muscle, it is simply consumed. Less fat shows more muscle structure, then called muscle tone. Muscles working versus not working seems to be the key distinction, what type is probably not easy to identify. Hypertrophy is probably medical slang with no real meaning. We can quantify your max lift strength, but what endurance means is not possible to pin down well. I work out every day and have some days better than others, so for me, the results are not absolutely repetitive, so unlikely is better in a population of people. What other accessory exercises and what they do is unknown, probably a benefit somehow, like the swinging deltoid machine to the leg ramp machine to push weights with your legs and provides stronger bench leg-back-to arm tension for lifting.
@@FlowHighPerformance1 What does "strength" mean is a real problem for attempts in science studies. 1. There is your slight and quick warmup to max bench lift strength. 2. There is your recovery to lift the weight again strength. 3. There is your endurance to continue sets of lifting. 4. There is your resilience to pulling muscles. 5. There is your resilience to work out even with pulled muscles, say even at lighter weights. 6. There is how much time you need to recover between lifts. 7. We don't know how convertible these strength types are. I would surmise greater endurance with 5 x 5 lifts builds or is claimed to build lift strength to eventually do those reps at higher weight loads.
@@FlowHighPerformance1 The surprise for me on bench press lifts is that I was convinced the higher I go in weight, the exponentially weaker I become as less total lifts possible. But, it turns out to be exactly linear. This means there isn't the kind of muscle exhaustion exhibited that I expect. The function I get is max set of 10 lifts rep weight minus 2 reps for each additional 10 pounds. Now, if you get a different function of weight to reps, what does that mean? Stronger? More fit? Better endurance? Or something else? A behavioral function like this to me is much more interesting, useful, and predictive than some number as it doesn't matter what the weight is.
I find drop sets with shorter rest times are less daunting than sets across with longer rests. If I've just done 25 reps of an exercise I really don't look forward to another 4 sets of those! If I shorten the rest time, after 45s I'm mentally more ready to push hard for less reps on the subsequent sets than try to get another 4x25 reps with 2min rests! Time Under Pain is shorter! 😅
One question: - when you drop the weight and execute ohter few reps, does it count as another set? Ex: if I do 8 reps with 20kg, no rest, 5 reps with 15kg, no rest, 5 reps with 10kg... is it one set or 3?
You can count it as 3, or a continous set of drop weights, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day, as long as your reps are quality, doesn't matter if you do 5 or 25, as long as you get to failure or near enough u should see gains, stay consistent.
No. You should count volume as kgs moved, it's the most fair meassure when changing the reps and weights. 8 rep * 20 kg = 160 kg moved. 8 rep * 20 kg = 160 kg moved, plus 5*15=75 kg moved + 5*10=50 kg moved = 285 kg total moved. One 3-in-1 dropset equals roughly two normal sets in volume.
Hey Peter, Do you think that use of more drop sets would necessitate deloading being programmed with increased frequency due to increased systemic fatigue?
On my upper body day I have 8-10 isolation movements that cover all upper muscles 1-2 per muscle after my compounds. Can I use drop sets on all my isolation exercises to save time?
You definitely can. Although it is unclear as to whether this will result in superior/inferior growth compared with traditional training. In either case, you will still get a good stimulus 👍
Since drop sets provide same benifits as normal sets,so while calculating volume should you input the max weight you used in drop set or each weight*sets individually eg. Set1(12 reps each set) 15kg,set2 10kg,set3 5kg so, volume = 15kg*12*3 or volume =(15kg*12)+(10kg*12)+(5kg*12)?
So all I wanna know regarding volume is: If I do 12 reps close to failure, drop some weight and do another 8 to failure, can that be considered as 2 Sets?
@@FlowHighPerformance1 haha! weird. I once did multiple sets in a row with 5kgs. Every set I would reduce 30% reps. Ex - Set 1 - 30 reps Set 2 - 21 reps Set 3 - 15 reps Set 4 -10 reps Set 5 - 5-7 reps. That's like 80+ reps in a session per muscle group. 😂. For sure that experiment showed it's worst for Stimulus to Fatigue ratio. I may not have grown in strength or hypertrophy but DOMS didn't let me breathe and straighten arms (120° at most) for 7 days.
You can rest a little if you like, but typically no rest is taken. The load decrease depends on the exercise. For dumbbell exercises, go to the next dumbbells down. for cable exercises, go one pin down
Question? Is it overtraining dropsetting my compund lift.. For instance, ill do 3 set of barbell bench press. Each set Ill drop the weight in half until failure
After doing one drop set exercise, do i rest between to do the next exercise that works the same muscle? Example, finish 3 drop sets for bicep curls, then moves to drop set hammer curls, do I have to rest between those two exercises once finished bicep curls until I do the hammer curl?
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I do "drop sets" with a normal rest period between sets. Started doing that decades ago because if I kept the weight the same across sets, I couldn't do very many reps to failure on following sets, so it just made sense to me. I might experiment with doing rapid drop sets with little or no rest just to save time in the gym. Usually, my workout takes 90 minutes. Much of that time is spent resting between sets. If I could reduce that to 45 minutes that would be a big difference. I might even expand my workouts to include more exercises.
nice work. I have also been experimenting with short-rest training. Definitely cuts down on session duration, and seems to provide a good stimulus 👍
Yeah, I see that also. I drop weigh amount to cut down on rest time, as that is to me, wasting time. Max load once and waiting around 15 minutes is not really a workout to me. But, if down at lower weights for a while I am not that tired, I can move back up and do it again.
I mainly do drop-set of reaching failure with a weight and go down and pick up the weights right after. I do these on biceps, triceps, and forearm isolation excercise. I've noticed better growth doing so.
I also find that drop sets work well for isolation lifts 👍
It's interesting that the authors point out that the volume between the two groups was statistically similar:
"No significant between-group differences were observed for the average total
training volume for a single RT session"
Yet, the drop-set group did perform one more set than the conventional group because the drop set group decreased weight 3 times, but also did the initial set of 12 for a total of four sets while the conventional group did 3 total sets. I guess if you run the repxweight numbers they'd come out the same between the groups, but the drop-set group went to failure one more time than the conventional group, which I think is more valuable than saying volume is equated between groups. So, maybe number of times going close to failure is more important than total volume. I don't think the drop sets would work as well with compound movements where a longer rest time has been shown to increase hypertrophy. Drop sets are probably best suited for isolation movements.
Yes I agree 100%. The number of sets taken to failure is likely much more important than total volume load. And yes, this is probably only a good strategy for isolation lifts, but not for compounds 👍
Also your technique and time under tension is also important, my reps are slow and controlled, as I am lifting weights and simply just moving them, I do drop set training, and my first set is an all out heavy set to absolute failure, I add to drop sets, and go to failure on all of them, get between 3-6 reps on my drops, but they are quality reps, which is great for hypertrophy.
I use drop sets for chest and back compound exercises, and I'm seeing great muscle gains. I still go for four sets total on bench press and pullups, but each of those sets is a drop set. For example, I start bench pressing with 160 lb x 6, drop weight 150 x 5, then 140 x 6, then 130 x 6. I do full four sets like that. i come and go from the gym and this is the first time I do this. Six weeks after my first workout and my wife and friends ask me how I look so big in such small period of time. I want to believe it is because all my exercises include drop sets except hip thrust. That's just me, though. I would like to see a study with many individuals doing a workout like mine compared to standard lifting to see what the results say. Thanks for the video.
very cool. Yes, I am very interested in new research on drop sets - and any other metabolite-style training methods 👍
Great video! I think I'm going to use dropsets by combining it with supersets, where I choose exercise 1 and exercise 2, each targeting a different muscle where I do exercise 1 to or near failure, then do the same with exercise 2, then either go immediately back to exercise 1 again or incorporate a tiny rest before doing so and then repeat until I reach my target number of sets. So the dropsetting mainly comes from a decrease in reps instead of load, as I'm embracing the small rest time in-between each exercise. This means I'm being more time efficient not only by eliminating or almost eliminating resting, but the decrease in reps per set for similar hypertrophy stimulus also increases time efficiency. And the decrease in reps means a decrease in systemic fatigue, allowing for more volume and thus more hypertrophy stimulus per workout, all at the same amount of time or less.
But that's just a theory. A hypertrophy theory! Thanks for watching!
I have implemented similar approaches to training too. Currently experimenting with short-rest periods during pyramid sets (increasing load each set for 3-4 sets, followed by decreasing load each set for the next 3-4 sets). Very time-efficient and still a high number of 'effective reps'. Similar concept to what you are planning. No real direct evidence for this type of training - mostly hypothetical at this point 💪
really nice videos! im a sport science students and your content is very helpfull.I would personally like to see one for muscle endurance and Vo2 max
Cheers! My content is mainly focused on hypertrophy training, but I will consider it for future videos 👍
They are dropping weight to continue working out instead of stopping, and with that, it is endurance training. How that equates to big weight lift gains I wouldn't know, but training often intermixes endurance and load. A 5x5 set after a higher weight 5x10 set is also drop set training.
The evidence tends to show great hypertrophy gains from drop-set training compared with traditional training. Difficult to say if it is better or worse at this point, but definitely produces muscle growth. Furthermore, bodybuilders have been doing drop-sets (and other metabolite techniques) for decades to great effect. Also remember that strength gains and muscle growth are two different adaptations. Strength gains are definitely superior with heavier loads 👍
@@FlowHighPerformance1 It would appear your muscle is your muscle and can get stronger and that is it. If you want more bulk you need steroids. Fat is not converted to muscle, it is simply consumed. Less fat shows more muscle structure, then called muscle tone. Muscles working versus not working seems to be the key distinction, what type is probably not easy to identify. Hypertrophy is probably medical slang with no real meaning. We can quantify your max lift strength, but what endurance means is not possible to pin down well. I work out every day and have some days better than others, so for me, the results are not absolutely repetitive, so unlikely is better in a population of people. What other accessory exercises and what they do is unknown, probably a benefit somehow, like the swinging deltoid machine to the leg ramp machine to push weights with your legs and provides stronger bench leg-back-to arm tension for lifting.
@@FlowHighPerformance1 What does "strength" mean is a real problem for attempts in science studies. 1. There is your slight and quick warmup to max bench lift strength. 2. There is your recovery to lift the weight again strength. 3. There is your endurance to continue sets of lifting. 4. There is your resilience to pulling muscles. 5. There is your resilience to work out even with pulled muscles, say even at lighter weights. 6. There is how much time you need to recover between lifts. 7. We don't know how convertible these strength types are. I would surmise greater endurance with 5 x 5 lifts builds or is claimed to build lift strength to eventually do those reps at higher weight loads.
@@FlowHighPerformance1 The surprise for me on bench press lifts is that I was convinced the higher I go in weight, the exponentially weaker I become as less total lifts possible. But, it turns out to be exactly linear. This means there isn't the kind of muscle exhaustion exhibited that I expect. The function I get is max set of 10 lifts rep weight minus 2 reps for each additional 10 pounds. Now, if you get a different function of weight to reps, what does that mean? Stronger? More fit? Better endurance? Or something else? A behavioral function like this to me is much more interesting, useful, and predictive than some number as it doesn't matter what the weight is.
I find drop sets with shorter rest times are less daunting than sets across with longer rests.
If I've just done 25 reps of an exercise I really don't look forward to another 4 sets of those!
If I shorten the rest time, after 45s I'm mentally more ready to push hard for less reps on the subsequent sets than try to get another 4x25 reps with 2min rests!
Time Under Pain is shorter! 😅
I agree. Drop-sets are more time-efficient and less daunting 👍
Thank you for all these research. I liked a lot this video.
no problem
Good definition of drop set. I can now get the idea.👍👍
Is a drop set considered another set or is just for that specific set and if it is considered another why is that?
I would consider it another set. I think it makes it easier to program and track drop sets 💪
@@FlowHighPerformance1 what do you mean by program and track in terms of drop sets?
@@leroyadlam12 It is more practical to quantify volume, which makes it easier to prescribe in a training program and to track progress over time 👍
@@FlowHighPerformance1 k gotcha you in that sense let’s say I have 10 sets for chest and I did 4 total drop sets then my total volume would be 14 sets
If you did 10 sets + 4 drop sets then yes, your volume would be 14 sets 💪
One question:
- when you drop the weight and execute ohter few reps, does it count as another set?
Ex: if I do 8 reps with 20kg, no rest, 5 reps with 15kg, no rest, 5 reps with 10kg... is it one set or 3?
I would count it as 3 sets 👍
Does it matter?
You can count it as 3, or a continous set of drop weights, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day, as long as your reps are quality, doesn't matter if you do 5 or 25, as long as you get to failure or near enough u should see gains, stay consistent.
No. You should count volume as kgs moved, it's the most fair meassure when changing the reps and weights.
8 rep * 20 kg = 160 kg moved.
8 rep * 20 kg = 160 kg moved, plus 5*15=75 kg moved + 5*10=50 kg moved = 285 kg total moved.
One 3-in-1 dropset equals roughly two normal sets in volume.
lol I've been doing this for a good two years now. Didn't know it had a name, just kinda made sense to me
Hey Peter, Do you think that use of more drop sets would necessitate deloading being programmed with increased frequency due to increased systemic fatigue?
No I don't think so. I don't think drop sets will be anymore fatiguing than traditional training for isolation lifts 👍
you have to be a psycho to do dropsets in compound lifts xD great mate
😂
Have you made a video of pyramid sets?
Not yet, will consider it for a future video 👍
thanks a lot man🤙
No problem 👍
On my upper body day I have 8-10 isolation movements that cover all upper muscles 1-2 per muscle after my compounds. Can I use drop sets on all my isolation exercises to save time?
You definitely can. Although it is unclear as to whether this will result in superior/inferior growth compared with traditional training. In either case, you will still get a good stimulus 👍
Since drop sets provide same benifits as normal sets,so while calculating volume should you input the max weight you used in drop set or each weight*sets individually eg. Set1(12 reps each set) 15kg,set2 10kg,set3 5kg
so, volume = 15kg*12*3 or
volume =(15kg*12)+(10kg*12)+(5kg*12)?
No, I would just use total number of sets as a metric, rather than volume load 👍
@@FlowHighPerformance1 so you exclude reps and weight used right?
Exactly right 👍
Thanks!
No problem 👍
great video but which one is more effective for muscle growth? drop sets or progressive overload?
We can still apply progressive overload using drop sets 👍
So all I wanna know regarding volume is: If I do 12 reps close to failure, drop some weight and do another 8 to failure, can that be considered as 2 Sets?
yes, I would consider it as 2 sets 👍
Is there any advantage of drop sets over reverse pyramid?
I don't think so. Both strategies can be effective - provided you take each set close to failure 👍
I did Pyramid Sets last day with Zottman Curls. Can't starighten arms.
Nice. I almost never get sore biceps 💪
@@FlowHighPerformance1 haha! weird. I once did multiple sets in a row with 5kgs. Every set I would reduce 30% reps. Ex - Set 1 - 30 reps Set 2 - 21 reps Set 3 - 15 reps Set 4 -10 reps Set 5 - 5-7 reps. That's like 80+ reps in a session per muscle group. 😂. For sure that experiment showed it's worst for Stimulus to Fatigue ratio. I may not have grown in strength or hypertrophy but DOMS didn't let me breathe and straighten arms (120° at most) for 7 days.
Very cool. I'd say that its an indicator that you caused some disruption 👍
So should we rest between drop sets like 30 secs or go straight to it? How much weight should we drop like 10% 20% or even half?
You can rest a little if you like, but typically no rest is taken. The load decrease depends on the exercise. For dumbbell exercises, go to the next dumbbells down. for cable exercises, go one pin down
Question? Is it overtraining dropsetting my compund lift.. For instance, ill do 3 set of barbell bench press. Each set Ill drop the weight in half until failure
no, this isnt overtraining. But just be careful training close to failure on bench press unless you have a spotter 👍
After doing one drop set exercise, do i rest between to do the next exercise that works the same muscle? Example, finish 3 drop sets for bicep curls, then moves to drop set hammer curls, do I have to rest between those two exercises once finished bicep curls until I do the hammer curl?
Yes, I would rest a little before moving onto hammer curls 👍
@@FlowHighPerformance1 how long, if i don't will it impede gains?
1-2 minutes should be fine. You can still make great gains even if you don't rest 💪
You mirin brah?
🤷
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