I’m an amateur and played Bb with only the side key for years, until I joined a community big band and had to play at tempos approaching 200 bpm. At that speed, it became difficult to play Bb with the side key, so I tried the bis key and found it worked better than the side key at these - for me - faster tempos. I’m currently trying to improve my speed using the exercise in your video “This Easy Exercise Will Transform Your Sax Finger Technique,” and I’m having a lot of difficulty learning to use the bis key while doing the exercise in the keys of Eb and Ab. I start slow, at 40-60 bpm, and work my way up in increments of 5 bpm but hit a wall around 80 bpm. One of the issues I’m having doing this exercise is Bb occasionally not “sounding” as I must not be covering the key(s) properly. I can see the sense in using the bis key most of the time, but I’m finding it difficult and frustrating to learn to use it, especially at my age (63).
Great tips - you're so right about using the bis key as it's so much easier in most scenarios. I never realised why my teacher wanted me to use the side keys so much but now I realise it's because she's a pro clarinet player.
I started out using the flute key, and as time passed and I went up a few grades I started using the side b flat, since I started high school I’ve been using the bis key
Fun facts: the flute has a "bis" b♭ as well as a key analogous to the side b♭. B/B♭ is produced by the thumb and has two positions like the bis and fist finger. There is a small lever above the fourth finger that can be pressed with the side of the finger to close the B♭ tone hole.
This is the first time I've heard the expression 'flute' Bb. I've always heard it being called the 'long' Bb. As for which one to use, I switch betwen all three depending on how easily my arthritic fingers can make the change from the preceding/ following notes. With respect to you Jamie I think the 'always the bis key' is more of a convention than a rule isn't it? Surely there must be other pro's who will advise you to simply do whichever suits you best.
Thank you! For my students who over rely on the side Bb I tend to disable it for a couple of weeks - put a small wedge under the lever where it meets the actual key. The aim is to be equally good at all 3 fingerings so your technique isn’t holding you back!
There is an exception where SOME brands saxophones do not have the connection for the D key (1&6). This 1&6 fingerings is also a good opportunity to see if your repair tech is paying attention when you go in to get a maintenance checkup. ;)
Thanks Jamie. So that’s what that is! I’m not taking the Bis, I never knew. 😂 I’m a flautist. I took up bass guitar in my teens when I decided Baroque n Roll was for me and taught myself saxophone in my 20’s completely through trial, error and a good combination of flute and recorder fingerings, coupled with a lot of experimentation. The plan worked, I’ve never been short of gigs on any of my instruments despite my saxophonic limitations. I’m now looking forward to familiarising myself with the Bis key and about time too. It’s only been about 32 years!!
I was taught by a bassoonist/ clarinettist, and his tenor which I used was so ancient it didn't even have a bis key! (It also had two octave keys, one for G and below and the other for higher!)
I learned the flute Bb many years ago and it remains my default. It was a couple of years before i even tried the side Bb, but I did start using it in certain situations. As for bis, I knew it was there but never saw any good reason to use it. In fact, the pearl fell off a few years ago and i haven't bothered to replace it.
Hi Jamie. I was teached to use flute key. On our alto sax was the Bis combination not in comfort position. On my Yani T5 is it fine so I quickly started to use Bis key and use it as default. Side Bb I use as you mentioned and flute combination I almost don't use anymore. One extension to your info about flute Bb. It doesn't matter, which finger on right hand you use. Bb sounds the same if you press B+F or B+F# or B+D. Some songs what I played in last days have sequention Bb-F# (All of me, Black Orpheus), so I played Bb that way and then simply added fingers on my left hand. Or for songs in sequention F-Bb I use also flute Bb. This is maybe help another colleagues watching this video. But as usual, great info and stimulus for thinking and experiments.
Thanks Jamie for this one !!! As a clarinetist the side was my go to but now I’ve been shown the error of my ways for the correct Sax 🎷 fingering I will now use the Bis key and forever forget the side one unless The rule applied in this video ! Loved it even although it’s short and clears up a very very Moir rant point too …. I’ve tried a few pieces that I have under my fingers on clarinet on my tenor, making sure they don’t go below lowB/Bb which is not as easy as it looks or sounds …. This will seriously help with accuracy and definitely with speed as a few have Bb as standard and the key requires it too ……
Hi Jamie, This is a good short video. Length does not matter. I learned to play sax 50 years ago an only new how to play B flat with the bis key. It is only recently that I have found the side key useful. Thanks for the tips.
I'm also a fan of the 1 and 5 fingering at times. I find myself using it in sharp keys like B or F# major. It just makes sense to me as an A# in brighter keys.
I like using the priorities of 1. do what feels physically comfortable to you (and necessary depending on transition), then 2. within those choices, if more than one, do what sounds best (Bb tones may be different between the fingerings). There are actually 7 versions of the "flute type" Bb fingering possible on most horns. You can use the right hand F key, F# key, D key, or combinations of F & F# keys (E), F & D keys, E and D keys, or all three F, F# and D keys at the same time. The tone may vary considerably with these choices. On my horn (Mark VI) the use of all three right hand keys (F, F# and D) together gives a much more full sounding "flute" Bb tone than using the usual F key alone. Of course, depending on the passage, these alternates may be too clumsy to utilize even if the tone is better.
Wow. I've always used side Bb. I have heard of the bis, but not used it before (will try it now) and never knew of flute fingering. Very interesting and Informative vid. More like this, please.
Thanks Jamie. Got my work cut out now though because I’ve always been lazy with the biz key, normally side or flute variation. Probably due to my Sax teacher 40 years ago who was mainly a clarinetist 😊
I used to think you could choose one or two Bb fingerings and stick to those but now I practice using them all. You don’t cover rolling from the bis to b here, which many sax players use (even Wally Wallace used it as a grace note on a recent video). I also found if you only used the side Bb fingering when going from B to Bb you don’t get very good at it because you don’t do it that often. Therefore I started practicing flat key scales using the side key fingering to improve my dexterity with that fingering. One of the advantages of RUclips is you can see player’s fingers. Scott Paddock uses the side fingering (even on flat keys), Greg Fishman, Jay Metcalf and Nigel McGill sometimes roll on the bis key, Wally Wallace always advocates using the side key when going from B to Bb. There truth is they are all correct, it just depends on the context. There are also intonation considerations if you are playing the Bb for a long time.
I'd say I use and teach both bis and side equaly: my side Bb is used for everything diatonically and chromatic; and whenever there is a greater interval, Bis key can be used. and on the rare occasion the 'flute' fingerings can be used. A bit harsh to say that Bis key is the dominant key to use for an self respecting saxophone player :p
Hi Jaime, Thanks as always for your great videos. I'm constantly mining them for nuggets. If you're still reading these comments and questions, what fingering would you use to play C#2 to C2 to Bb3 in quick sequence? I'm currently using side Bb. It just seems a bit easier?
Bis Bb is for Arpeggios. Side Bb is for A to Bb trill and for chromatic scales. Bis Bb works for flat key scales. Side Bb is used any time you have a A# to B in the B major or F# scale. Beginners should use side Bb, until they have some time on the sax,when Bis Bb can be introduced.
@@grantkoeller8911 People say if you turn your mass screw correctly, it relieves Bis-itis, plus it helps with tuning, too! Anyway, do it for the kids. They need to know Bis also helps with avoiding beaver paws.
Hello Jamie - I started learning the sax years ago using the flute Bb all the time. Your revelation about making the bis Bb as default Bb has left me rather stunned. It's difficult for me to make the change, though. Any chance of your coming up with some exercises to use the bis Bb/side key/flute?
When playing David Sanborn’s “As We Speak”, I not only use the “flute” Bb with 1 + 5 (yes, the F# key in the right hand), I also prep for the rapid low C# by playing the G# with the left pinky on the low C# spatula/table key (rather than the G# pinky key). I find this trick helps sometimes in keys like B or F#. Which brings me to a legitimate question I have: why do we even need a G# key since the low C# pinky key will act as a G# and actually voice better since it is venting more of the tube? I wish someone would simply relocate the C# pinky table key to the G# position and eliminate the G# altogether. There’s no reason to have it. The C# will do both and facilitate more keys being able to be obtained with the left pinky simply staying depressed while in those keys. This is also my feeling while playing in E - a person can simply keep the G# and Eb pinky keys pressed down while simulating a D scale. If you do this, you can fly right through E with the same speed as playing a D scale.
@@GetYourSaxTogether you’d think so, right? I asked Jack Finucane from Boston Sax and also a tech at Long Beach Woodwinds the same questions. Neither of them had thought of this. Try placing your left pinky on the C# key and your right pinky on the Eb/D#. Keep both depressed and play E major by fingering a D Maj scale (starting on E). You can descend to low C# very fast. Try playing G# in both natural octaves by fingering 1-2-3 and then the C# in place of the G#. Then switch to G# with the G# key. You’ll notice a slight improvement in feel by using the C#. The problem is the extension of the pinky for quick trilling, etc. But, imagine if the G# was simply eliminated and the C# was relocated with the same mechanisms as before, only now being in the position of the former G#. My questions to each of three tech was whether this was feasible. After scratching their heads, they replied, “actually, I think so”. This would be super helpful in quickly hitting that low C# without requiring any of the pinky stretch which exists now. Plus, being able to play with a pinky key depressed can sure speed up runs which are primarily diatonic. Of course, it won’t do much for chromatic passages. I think I also asked JL Woodwinds. He’s a really cool dude, btw
Don't forget Bb played using the B key + the E key. Useful for F#/Gb major, because you're playing the same key for F# and A# - just feels cleaner to me.
Tricky bis-ness. Sadly. I'm addicted to the side key as a "clarinutter." Fond of the flute or fork fingering though for Bb arpeggios and such. Bis does cut out a lot of unnecessary "handminutions" (not a real word) Thanks again for a useful and informative video. Will practice more bis. Time to get "bisy" (that ought to be a real word). ;-)
I almost never use side Bb unless I have to play A-Bb-C or a combination thereof in quick succession. Always bis Bb and "flute" Bb. A thicker more in tune sound is the combination of left hand finger 1 and right hand fingers 1-2-3 together. I saw that recommended by Ben Wendel in his masterclass.
Ok….I did start on clarinet. But this is definitely an 😱 moment for me. I never use the bis key. 95% clarinet 5% Flute. I will try and change…but old dog new tricks. You say to use the bis because it’s easier without any real detail as to why? I know when I checked out your "Latest trick" video for the tenor, (i had been playing this for years) that you were right that the clarinet key was awkward. But I had got so used to it that I didn’t change. I have just tried to use the bis key on the solo for "born to run" …what an epic fail….lol. The tonality, is not quite the same on my Yamaha 62 purple tenor. Could just be that my emboucher is used to the clarinet key, but the bis key is a fraction, just a fraction, flat and the clarinet key is more free blowing and earthy. I am going to try and practice with the bis, because if you feel so strongly about it, I should definitely try and use it. I do know that sometimes (just sometimes ) the clarinet key feels clumsy when learning something new, but I use the key so much that it quickly falls in to place. Really good video. I wish I had known this when I started out.
Sadly, I started on clarinet (40 years ago) and although I haven't played it for a long time, the Side Bb became my default method in my sax playing. I know I should be using bis, but it's agonizing for me to introduce it into my scale studies and daily practicing. I'd have to slow down all my playing by half just to get smooth at it. I'm too impatient for that. :). PS. the flute fingering, or "1-4" as I've always called it is really useful in Bb major arpeggios.
I feel your pain. I'm in the same boat and can't imagine having to relearn to accommodate the bis key. I've only ever encountered one tune where the side key however just doesn't work for a passage....In the Mood.
There is nothing "sad" about starting on clarinet. I've been playing clarinet and sax both for just a little longer than when you started, and I can say that it's definitely a good idea to get used to all three fingerings. I do mostly use the side or the "flute" fingerings, but there are definitely times when the bis is the smoothest way to go. My husband, a professional clarinetist/saxophonist, went so far as to add a bis key to his clarinet (yes, it can be done).
It's even better to start with the clarinet if you want to play both clarinet and sax. I also strongly recommend to use the bis-key for Bb whereever possible on sax. And yes, it can be learnt to use the bis-key for Bb on sax - even if you started as a clarinet player. It just requires some dedication on scales and arpeggios as I know based on my personal experience.
Thanks again for all your great content. I've started using the bis fingering more than the side Bb, and almost never the flute, but my question is about moving up from bis Bb to C. Using the side fingering bis Bb + RSK2 produces a quite flat C, moving from bis Bb to middle finger C is kind of awkward (for me), and side Bb to C (middle finger) seems smoothest. You might also comment on when to use the side C versus middle C.
Thank you, Jamie! This was going to be by question on the Tuesday Session...now we won't have to waste time on that one! I pretty much agree with you here but I was taught by a trumpet playing band director to use the flute Bb and have done so for more than fifty years. That's going to be a tough habit to break! Also, for those that purchased the session on Tuesday, do we need any special login information? Thanks! George
I use side bflat because it has a less chance of slipping. Great advice though! Also, when are we going to see a follow up on your family's saxophone journey?
I tend to use side Bb when ascending chromatically and flute Bb when descending chromatically. Is that an issue? Ive seen some other pros (cough cough* Scott Paddock) use side Bb on descending chromatic glisses but Ive always felt mine sound cleaner with flute style Bb.
I’ve traditionally been a side B-flat guy. But recently I find myself using the bis more depending on the surrounding notes in the song. I don’t think I ever use the flute option.
I usually use the bis key, but otherwise I play Bb with whatever feels right at the time, which probably follows your counsel here (except on my sax the low D key does not close the the bis.)
I initially reied the Bis key and didn't like it. I then tried the side key and found it a lot easier. Especially A to Bb, you can just hit the side button. Flute fingering, didn't sound quite right.
I an 72 years old and have been playing sax since age 10. When my son was in middle school, he was learning sax and I taught him about the bis key fingering,. His band director said that he shouldn’t use any “trick fingering.” I could not believe it.
If Jamie is anything like thousands of others, it is because he transitioned from clarinet to sax. The side Bb key is the default standard for clarinet. If a person doubles from flute, they are much less likely to use side Bb and possible also Bis. It is very difficult to become fluid and avoid intermediate unwanted notes when flipping between Bb and C. The flute fingering is preferred when flipping between B and Bb. A clarinetist can typically manage B to Bb with the side key and time things right. That’s only because they become adept at the side key through most all of their playing.
Hey Jamie, I just realized a way of using the bis key that I had never heard of before, even in your video! Have a look at what Brandford Marsalis does here: ruclips.net/video/C3R8-mrtj3A/видео.html. He's actually using his middle left finger to press the bis key. I had never thought of doing this and yet it seems quite obvious!
I fall wholly into the clarinetist turned sax player bracket! Even on bass, that little fork Bb is so utterly useless so I don't ever try hard on sax. However, I will now.
I thought that "Xis" (Germanic languages) was another was of saying "X#" - so shouldn't "Bis" be "Ais" (or "Bes"). Others seem to say it's from the Frensh, where "bis" simply means "second" or "alternative", in which case iut should _really_ be called the "B♭ bis" - but I guess that's just too much of a mouthfull! I feel that calling it "Bis" with the capital "B" is a little misleading...
![Oscar Maydon x Fuerza Regida - Tu Boda [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_ymicn0_GYc/mqdefault.jpg)
Instantly level up YOUR playing with this free Masterclass!www.getyoursaxtogether.com/masterclass
I’m an amateur and played Bb with only the side key for years, until I joined a community big band and had to play at tempos approaching 200 bpm. At that speed, it became difficult to play Bb with the side key, so I tried the bis key and found it worked better than the side key at these - for me - faster tempos. I’m currently trying to improve my speed using the exercise in your video “This Easy Exercise Will Transform Your Sax Finger Technique,” and I’m having a lot of difficulty learning to use the bis key while doing the exercise in the keys of Eb and Ab. I start slow, at 40-60 bpm, and work my way up in increments of 5 bpm but hit a wall around 80 bpm. One of the issues I’m having doing this exercise is Bb occasionally not “sounding” as I must not be covering the key(s) properly. I can see the sense in using the bis key most of the time, but I’m finding it difficult and frustrating to learn to use it, especially at my age (63).
You’ll get there. Sounds like you’re doing a great job!
Great tips - you're so right about using the bis key as it's so much easier in most scenarios. I never realised why my teacher wanted me to use the side keys so much but now I realise it's because she's a pro clarinet player.
So true!
You can rock LH1 on the bis just like a register key. Takes some getting used to but works great. Greg Fishman talks about it.
I use all of them exactly as you described. I feel vindicated. Yippee!!!!!
👍
I started out using the flute key, and as time passed and I went up a few grades I started using the side b flat, since I started high school I’ve been using the bis key
I’ve gotten so used to it that using any other b flat fingering is confusing at first
👍
Fun facts: the flute has a "bis" b♭ as well as a key analogous to the side b♭. B/B♭ is produced by the thumb and has two positions like the bis and fist finger. There is a small lever above the fourth finger that can be pressed with the side of the finger to close the B♭ tone hole.
Even more fun fact, clarinet has a bis key too, although it’s not even a key - you just press the pad!
This is the first time I've heard the expression 'flute' Bb. I've always heard it being called the 'long' Bb. As for which one to use, I switch betwen all three depending on how easily my arthritic fingers can make the change from the preceding/ following notes. With respect to you Jamie I think the 'always the bis key' is more of a convention than a rule isn't it? Surely there must be other pro's who will advise you to simply do whichever suits you best.
1&1 Bb works perfectly for Bb to
B natural trill
1&2 Bb works for F# to A# trill
@@grantkoeller8911 Yeah, it's 1+1 for me
😎
Thank you! For my students who over rely on the side Bb I tend to disable it for a couple of weeks - put a small wedge under the lever where it meets the actual key. The aim is to be equally good at all 3 fingerings so your technique isn’t holding you back!
👍
There is an exception where SOME brands saxophones do not have the connection for the D key (1&6). This 1&6 fingerings is also a good opportunity to see if your repair tech is paying attention when you go in to get a maintenance checkup. ;)
All true.
Thanks Jamie. So that’s what that is! I’m not taking the Bis, I never knew. 😂 I’m a flautist. I took up bass guitar in my teens when I decided Baroque n Roll was for me and taught myself saxophone in my 20’s completely through trial, error and a good combination of flute and recorder fingerings, coupled with a lot of experimentation. The plan worked, I’ve never been short of gigs on any of my instruments despite my saxophonic limitations. I’m now looking forward to familiarising myself with the Bis key and about time too. It’s only been about 32 years!!
Enjoy!
Going to practice smart, the three b flats. Wow, very cool, shot with an arrow right at the bull's eye! I got it! 5je mystery is solved!!!!
Thanks!!!
Awesome! 😎
All good stuff coming from his channel, thanks again
Thanks!
HI, Super the 'Bb teacher' ! Great, simple, clear, a good sax teacher
Friendly,, AMAZING. Bravo 😀😀😀Joël (Switzerland Jazz musician)
Thanks! 😃
I was taught by a bassoonist/ clarinettist, and his tenor which I used was so ancient it didn't even have a bis key! (It also had two octave keys, one for G and below and the other for higher!)
Interesting!
I've been playing for a bit over a year and a half now and never once used the bis key. Time to learn something new!
Big time!!!
I learned the flute Bb many years ago and it remains my default. It was a couple of years before i even tried the side Bb, but I did start using it in certain situations. As for bis, I knew it was there but never saw any good reason to use it. In fact, the pearl fell off a few years ago and i haven't bothered to replace it.
😎
Hi Jamie. I was teached to use flute key. On our alto sax was the Bis combination not in comfort position. On my Yani T5 is it fine so I quickly started to use Bis key and use it as default. Side Bb I use as you mentioned and flute combination I almost don't use anymore. One extension to your info about flute Bb. It doesn't matter, which finger on right hand you use. Bb sounds the same if you press B+F or B+F# or B+D. Some songs what I played in last days have sequention Bb-F# (All of me, Black Orpheus), so I played Bb that way and then simply added fingers on my left hand. Or for songs in sequention F-Bb I use also flute Bb. This is maybe help another colleagues watching this video.
But as usual, great info and stimulus for thinking and experiments.
Thanks!
Thanks Jamie for this one !!! As a clarinetist the side was my go to but now I’ve been shown the error of my ways for the correct Sax 🎷 fingering I will now use the Bis key and forever forget the side one unless
The rule applied in this video ! Loved it even although it’s short and clears up a very very Moir rant point too …. I’ve tried a few pieces that I have under my fingers on clarinet on my tenor, making sure they don’t go below lowB/Bb which is not as easy as it looks or sounds …. This will seriously help with accuracy and definitely with speed as a few have Bb as standard and the key requires it too ……
👍
Hi Jamie, This is a good short video. Length does not matter. I learned to play sax 50 years ago an only new how to play B flat with the bis key. It is only recently that I have found the side key useful. Thanks for the tips.
Enjoy your music!
I'm also a fan of the 1 and 5 fingering at times. I find myself using it in sharp keys like B or F# major. It just makes sense to me as an A# in brighter keys.
👍
Great tip! I use to hesitate in different passages about which to choose
Thanks!
I like using the priorities of
1. do what feels physically comfortable to you (and necessary depending on transition),
then
2. within those choices, if more than one, do what sounds best (Bb tones may be different between the fingerings).
There are actually 7 versions of the "flute type" Bb fingering possible on most horns. You can use the right hand F key, F# key, D key, or combinations of F & F# keys (E), F & D keys, E and D keys, or all three F, F# and D keys at the same time. The tone may vary considerably with these choices. On my horn (Mark VI) the use of all three right hand keys (F, F# and D) together gives a much more full sounding "flute" Bb tone than using the usual F key alone. Of course, depending on the passage, these alternates may be too clumsy to utilize even if the tone is better.
😎
Thanks for the tip about using all three right-hand keys for a fuller sound. Works on my P. Mauriat tenor as well.
Very cool. Thank you
You're welcome
Wow. I've always used side Bb. I have heard of the bis, but not used it before (will try it now) and never knew of flute fingering. Very interesting and Informative vid. More like this, please.
Happy to help!
Thanks Jamie. Got my work cut out now though because I’ve always been lazy with the biz key, normally side or flute variation. Probably due to my Sax teacher 40 years ago who was mainly a clarinetist 😊
👍
I used to think you could choose one or two Bb fingerings and stick to those but now I practice using them all.
You don’t cover rolling from the bis to b here, which many sax players use (even Wally Wallace used it as a grace note on a recent video). I also found if you only used the side Bb fingering when going from B to Bb you don’t get very good at it because you don’t do it that often. Therefore I started practicing flat key scales using the side key fingering to improve my dexterity with that fingering.
One of the advantages of RUclips is you can see player’s fingers.
Scott Paddock uses the side fingering (even on flat keys), Greg Fishman, Jay Metcalf and Nigel McGill sometimes roll on the bis key, Wally Wallace always advocates using the side key when going from B to Bb.
There truth is they are all correct, it just depends on the context.
There are also intonation considerations if you are playing the Bb for a long time.
😎
Thank you for this video
Thanks 🙏
I'd say I use and teach both bis and side equaly: my side Bb is used for everything diatonically and chromatic; and whenever there is a greater interval, Bis key can be used. and on the rare occasion the 'flute' fingerings can be used. A bit harsh to say that Bis key is the dominant key to use for an self respecting saxophone player :p
😎
Hi Jaime, Thanks as always for your great videos. I'm constantly mining them for nuggets. If you're still reading these comments and questions, what fingering would you use to play C#2 to C2 to Bb3 in quick sequence? I'm currently using side Bb. It just seems a bit easier?
I’d use bis but that’s just me.
Bis Bb is for Arpeggios.
Side Bb is for A to Bb trill and for chromatic scales.
Bis Bb works for flat key scales.
Side Bb is used any time you have a A# to B in the B major or F# scale.
Beginners should use side Bb, until they have some time on the sax,when Bis Bb can be introduced.
Great advice, except for the last bit. Start them early on the right path, then they don't have to unlearn their bad habits with me!
@@bobpremecz5429 playing Bis Bb too much is called Bis-itis. There are players who use Bis too much when the correct fingering is Side Bb
@@grantkoeller8911 People say if you turn your mass screw correctly, it relieves Bis-itis, plus it helps with tuning, too! Anyway, do it for the kids. They need to know Bis also helps with avoiding beaver paws.
@@bobpremecz5429 The kids will learn the correct time to play bis Bb and the correct time to play side Bb
😎
Hello Jamie - I started learning the sax years ago using the flute Bb all the time. Your revelation about making the bis Bb as default Bb has left me rather stunned. It's difficult for me to make the change, though. Any chance of your coming up with some exercises to use the bis Bb/side key/flute?
Any scale exercise with a flatted B will work - For examples see: ruclips.net/video/hAOLZdYfpLw/видео.html
When playing David Sanborn’s “As We Speak”, I not only use the “flute” Bb with 1 + 5 (yes, the F# key in the right hand), I also prep for the rapid low C# by playing the G# with the left pinky on the low C# spatula/table key (rather than the G# pinky key). I find this trick helps sometimes in keys like B or F#.
Which brings me to a legitimate question I have: why do we even need a G# key since the low C# pinky key will act as a G# and actually voice better since it is venting more of the tube?
I wish someone would simply relocate the C# pinky table key to the G# position and eliminate the G# altogether. There’s no reason to have it. The C# will do both and facilitate more keys being able to be obtained with the left pinky simply staying depressed while in those keys.
This is also my feeling while playing in E - a person can simply keep the G# and Eb pinky keys pressed down while simulating a D scale. If you do this, you can fly right through E with the same speed as playing a D scale.
Really interesting point actually. I’m sure there’s a reason!
@@GetYourSaxTogether you’d think so, right? I asked Jack Finucane from Boston Sax and also a tech at Long Beach Woodwinds the same questions. Neither of them had thought of this.
Try placing your left pinky on the C# key and your right pinky on the Eb/D#. Keep both depressed and play E major by fingering a D Maj scale (starting on E). You can descend to low C# very fast.
Try playing G# in both natural octaves by fingering 1-2-3 and then the C# in place of the G#. Then switch to G# with the G# key. You’ll notice a slight improvement in feel by using the C#.
The problem is the extension of the pinky for quick trilling, etc. But, imagine if the G# was simply eliminated and the C# was relocated with the same mechanisms as before, only now being in the position of the former G#.
My questions to each of three tech was whether this was feasible. After scratching their heads, they replied, “actually, I think so”.
This would be super helpful in quickly hitting that low C# without requiring any of the pinky stretch which exists now. Plus, being able to play with a pinky key depressed can sure speed up runs which are primarily diatonic. Of course, it won’t do much for chromatic passages.
I think I also asked JL Woodwinds. He’s a really cool dude, btw
Don't forget Bb played using the B key + the E key. Useful for F#/Gb major, because you're playing the same key for F# and A# - just feels cleaner to me.
Yeh I mention that variation.
@@GetYourSaxTogether Soz, i try to use it, be I'm a slave to the bis. It doesn't slow me down much TBO and 1+1 Bb doesn't sound great.
Tricky bis-ness. Sadly. I'm addicted to the side key as a "clarinutter." Fond of the flute or fork fingering though for Bb arpeggios and such. Bis does cut out a lot of unnecessary "handminutions" (not a real word) Thanks again for a useful and informative video. Will practice more bis. Time to get "bisy" (that ought to be a real word). ;-)
Very punny comment Vincent. Thanks!
Bis is best! You don't know how many of my students I had to convince not to listen to their band (clarinet) teachers.
😎
I almost never use side Bb unless I have to play A-Bb-C or a combination thereof in quick succession. Always bis Bb and "flute" Bb. A thicker more in tune sound is the combination of left hand finger 1 and right hand fingers 1-2-3 together. I saw that recommended by Ben Wendel in his masterclass.
😎
Ok….I did start on clarinet. But this is definitely an 😱 moment for me. I never use the bis key. 95% clarinet 5% Flute. I will try and change…but old dog new tricks. You say to use the bis because it’s easier without any real detail as to why? I know when I checked out your "Latest trick" video for the tenor, (i had been playing this for years) that you were right that the clarinet key was awkward. But I had got so used to it that I didn’t change. I have just tried to use the bis key on the solo for "born to run" …what an epic fail….lol. The tonality, is not quite the same on my Yamaha 62 purple tenor. Could just be that my emboucher is used to the clarinet key, but the bis key is a fraction, just a fraction, flat and the clarinet key is more free blowing and earthy. I am going to try and practice with the bis, because if you feel so strongly about it, I should definitely try and use it. I do know that sometimes (just sometimes ) the clarinet key feels clumsy when learning something new, but I use the key so much that it quickly falls in to place. Really good video. I wish I had known this when I started out.
😎
Sadly, I started on clarinet (40 years ago) and although I haven't played it for a long time, the Side Bb became my default method in my sax playing. I know I should be using bis, but it's agonizing for me to introduce it into my scale studies and daily practicing. I'd have to slow down all my playing by half just to get smooth at it. I'm too impatient for that. :). PS. the flute fingering, or "1-4" as I've always called it is really useful in Bb major arpeggios.
I feel your pain. I'm in the same boat and can't imagine having to relearn to accommodate the bis key. I've only ever encountered one tune where the side key however just doesn't work for a passage....In the Mood.
There is nothing "sad" about starting on clarinet. I've been playing clarinet and sax both for just a little longer than when you started, and I can say that it's definitely a good idea to get used to all three fingerings. I do mostly use the side or the "flute" fingerings, but there are definitely times when the bis is the smoothest way to go. My husband, a professional clarinetist/saxophonist, went so far as to add a bis key to his clarinet (yes, it can be done).
It's even better to start with the clarinet if you want to play both clarinet and sax. I also strongly recommend to use the bis-key for Bb whereever possible on sax. And yes, it can be learnt to use the bis-key for Bb on sax - even if you started as a clarinet player. It just requires some dedication on scales and arpeggios as I know based on my personal experience.
😎
Thanks again for all your great content. I've started using the bis fingering more than the side Bb, and almost never the flute, but my question is about moving up from bis Bb to C. Using the side fingering bis Bb + RSK2 produces a quite flat C, moving from bis Bb to middle finger C is kind of awkward (for me), and side Bb to C (middle finger) seems smoothest. You might also comment on when to use the side C versus middle C.
😎
Thank you, Jamie! This was going to be by question on the Tuesday Session...now we won't have to waste time on that one! I pretty much agree with you here but I was taught by a trumpet playing band director to use the flute Bb and have done so for more than fifty years. That's going to be a tough habit to break!
Also, for those that purchased the session on Tuesday, do we need any special login information?
Thanks!
George
You should have received an email with th elink to Tuesday's session.
I have a question, do you have any tips how to play the saxophone solo in "crime of century" from supertramp? I really need help
I’ll add it to my list.
Awsome sir
Thanks!
Hi Jamie, how did you get the copyright of the songs you did?
RUclips automatically apportions income to the artists. I don’t get anything, quite rightly.
what about the Bb bis sliding to B ... I'm so used to play Bb with the bis key that I do all the time that when playing Bb to B
Yeh I do that too actually. I just feel bad telling people to do it! 🤣
I use side bflat because it has a less chance of slipping. Great advice though!
Also, when are we going to see a follow up on your family's saxophone journey?
😎 🤣
I tend to use side Bb when ascending chromatically and flute Bb when descending chromatically. Is that an issue? Ive seen some other pros (cough cough* Scott Paddock) use side Bb on descending chromatic glisses but Ive always felt mine sound cleaner with flute style Bb.
Whatever works for you man. 👍🏻
I’ve traditionally been a side B-flat guy. But recently I find myself using the bis more depending on the surrounding notes in the song.
I don’t think I ever use the flute option.
😎
Aaarg, side Bb is ingrained in my brain. Yep, they made me start on clarinet.
😎
I usually use the bis key, but otherwise I play Bb with whatever feels right at the time, which probably follows your counsel here (except on my sax the low D key does not close the the bis.)
😎
I initially reied the Bis key and didn't like it. I then tried the side key and found it a lot easier. Especially A to Bb, you can just hit the side button. Flute fingering, didn't sound quite right.
😎
I an 72 years old and have been playing sax since age 10. When my son was in middle school, he was learning sax and I taught him about the bis key fingering,. His band director said that he shouldn’t use any “trick fingering.” I could not believe it.
Sad statement, but not so unusual. 😟
The side bflat is Best in tune for me
"only Cowboys play in tune anyway" -Jimi Hendrix ;)
😎
Thank you for your thoughts on this. Why do you choose side b flat over the flute fingering for b to be flat?
Thanks!
If Jamie is anything like thousands of others, it is because he transitioned from clarinet to sax. The side Bb key is the default standard for clarinet. If a person doubles from flute, they are much less likely to use side Bb and possible also Bis.
It is very difficult to become fluid and avoid intermediate unwanted notes when flipping between Bb and C.
The flute fingering is preferred when flipping between B and Bb. A clarinetist can typically manage B to Bb with the side key and time things right. That’s only because they become adept at the side key through most all of their playing.
Hey Jamie, I just realized a way of using the bis key that I had never heard of before, even in your video! Have a look at what Brandford Marsalis does here: ruclips.net/video/C3R8-mrtj3A/видео.html. He's actually using his middle left finger to press the bis key. I had never thought of doing this and yet it seems quite obvious!
Right. Cool.
I fall wholly into the clarinetist turned sax player bracket! Even on bass, that little fork Bb is so utterly useless so I don't ever try hard on sax. However, I will now.
👍
I thought that "Xis" (Germanic languages) was another was of saying "X#" - so shouldn't "Bis" be "Ais" (or "Bes"). Others seem to say it's from the Frensh, where "bis" simply means "second" or "alternative", in which case iut should _really_ be called the "B♭ bis" - but I guess that's just too much of a mouthfull! I feel that calling it "Bis" with the capital "B" is a little misleading...
🤣
Why do they call it the Bis key?
Bis is "double" in French. You hold down 2 keys with one finger ...
@@GetYourSaxTogether Thanks. Seems odd they name the key in French since Adolf Sax was German.
@@johnbull6909 he wasn’t German actually, he was Belgian, and he spent most of his working life in Paris. 👍🏻
Im tired of being told to use the bis
Don’t use it then Dylan! That’s the end of that. 😎
@@GetYourSaxTogether that's the end
Never used the bis
Time to start -- 😎