I'm going to put this here so I don't feel the urge to reply to all the comments individually. For all the folks that are still commenting about the pronunciation of daemon, in spite of my disclaimer. Please listen to this: www.google.com/search?q=how+to+pronounce+daemon That's correct for both UK English and American English. It's a bummer from a clarity standpoint, I know but its technically the same word. Why D&D originally chose to use two spellings of the same word for two different creatures is anyone's guess but this is technically correct. Daemon is a real word, not a fake fantasy one, as a legitimate alternate spelling of demon. Phew!
The only reason I personally use the excessively phonetic pronunciation is to differentiate Demons and Daemons. No need in any setting where they're not so precisely defined.
@@shiwanabethat's exactly why I do it, and I why I expect most people do as well. Otherwise it feels really confusing when trying to talk about the differences evil outerplanes entities.
The name Damon isn’t pronounced the same a daemon. Neither is Demon. That ae is a liaison, which doesn’t exist in English. That’s why it can be pronounced either way in English. There is a third pronunciation that would look like dayemon written out phonetically. If you were speaking Greek, it might matter. Although if you were speaking Greek, angels are also daemons. Now harbinger annoys me. It’s har-binge-er.
Daemon is a much older word, and actually doesn't reference the exact same thing as Demon does. Daemon does include our traditional idea of demons, but also includes other mystical beings not directly acknowledged as gods. Demons are the denizens of hell, from whatever culture we're referring to. Daemons can be Demons, but also gods from someone else's religion. The way I've always remembered it is that Apollo is a god to the Greeks, but a daemon to the Persians. Lucifer and Pazuzzu are both demons.
As someone who primarily plays D&D it’s so nice to see the Neutral Evil Outsiders get proper respect as their own distinct faction, the Yugoloths are so under used and a lot of their lore got really heavily cut down and retconned in 5e.
Bring me midnight the endless dark, Bring me beasts that howl and bark, Bring me crimson liquid red, Bring me the sickness terror bred, Bring me thunder lightning true, Bring me the hope of nothing new, Rot, decay, dilapidation, Bring me the end of anticipation. My favorite of Pathfinder’s Fiends! Thank you for all your hard work, your videos are supreme for Pathfinder lore.
Not a Pathfinder fan or player, but I must admit that they really fleshed out daemons and made them more interesting. I use their stuff in my Castles & Crusades campaign.
Mostly i prefer the "day-mon" pronunciation to "deemon" mostly to help distinguish between the two since one is neutral evil and the other chaotic evil.
The "day-mon" pronunciation is also explicitly the proper pronunciation. Of course the linguistics of demon/daemon are essentially interchangeable as the variations in pronunciation and spelling are largely cultural in origin, and the distinction of using the two versions to denote different categories of infernal creatures is entirely a creation of modern TTRPGs.
As @TheMythKeeper channel becomes the prominent source for many, the pronunciation influences viewers. Treating "deamon" & "demon" as homophones muddies the listener's understanding without additional explanation. Hearing a separate pronunciation for "daemon" avoids confusion at the table and helps differentiate betwixt each in the minds eye. So, to clarify it is a deamon instead of a demon, say "die-mon" or "day-mon" instead of "dee-mon." Such clarity is worth a bit more air 💨 rumbling across the 👅 tongue. Is good exercise, to boot. Also, a more flexible lingua even improve one's enjoyment of their next 🍽 plate of 🧇 waffles 🧇.
@ElenaAideen What about pronouncing daemon as "die-mon" over "day-mon"? I tend toward daemon as "day-mon" as "dae" is pronounced "day". But recently had an Australian TTS pronounce it as "die-mon".
@@ElenaAideen I didn't realize Paizo had ever said this. Regardless, I grew up with Warhammer (and with Pierre-Simon Laplace I suppose) so daemon is just a fun way to spell demon to me.
Both pronunciations are perfectly acceptable. The two words have the same Greek root anyway. Love the quality of your content, and you could pronounce it "freds" for all I care. Keep up the awesome work on my favorite world.
After months of hiatus from commenting, I return. Holy crap I have a lot to catch up on. Always was intrested in figuring out the diffience between Daemons, devils, and demons. Or more like; how to Daemons fit into the "Evil" side of the alignment creatures. At any rate, it's always awesome to see you posting content! Cant wait to dig into this.
Hey welcome back! I think Daemons are actually weirdly my favorite of the three main fiendish types although definitely the least explored in the lore. I think Demons which is coming out fairly soon will be a fun one to watch.
Gotta love how all deities in Abaddon seemingly are just chill with one another. The Horsemen just do their own thing and stay out of each other's ways, Urgathoa and Zyphos are just being good neighbours. They have no reasons to mess with one another and don't look for one.
Urgathoa and Zyphus are definitely chill, but I also think that the Four Horsemen don't get along with each other as much as all that. They agree to disagree a lot.
@@TheMythkeeper Sorry, haven't made it through the whole video yet. The Horsemen kinda just have a working relationship. The things they do agree on are that all life must be destroyed/consumed and that the Oinodaemon needs to be kept locked up. Hope you mention how War's position has a high turnover rate hahaha
Super happy to see this! Just started an evil campaign where i am playing a caster who worships Charon! This will be perfect to have and watch any time i need a refresher. 💜
Six weeks ago, there were Devils. Six weeks from that point, we get Deamons. I suspect that six weeks from now we'll get Demons. There's no pattern here, no no no.... >_>
My group run into some daemons two sessions ago that was beyond us we ended up retreating when one of them killed the barbarian we was able to bring her back to life by using a ritual spell but that's a fight I won't forget anytime soon that's for sure
Oh man this is cool. Daemons are not often explored as in depth as the other two so I'm excited to get an injection of knowldge about them.Maybe I'll get some inspiration to include them in my campaign! These videos always have at least some effect on my campaign as I strive to give my players a little bit of experience of the whole multiverse of Pathfinder!
Gotta respect you mentioning Folca. Even Paizo themselves said they'd back away from him. I frankly can't blame them, their portfolio is distasteful even among evil entities, though I felt it a shameful waste. Long ago, I did a rewrite of Folca that leaned more on their dominion over sugar. I think it's still in the Paizo forums, called 'Folca Redone'. Had a thing where Folca was worshipped as a god of baked goods by people who didn't know better and other aspects of his cult actually abducted and killed people who tried to reveal the truth to preserve the innocence of the confectioners, because Folca themselves is an 'oblivious evil' that just... does evil without really knowing or thinking it was evil, and got exceptionally upset if someone tried to make them aware of the fact.
Been looking forward to seeing this since your video on the Evil Planes. Brilliant as usual. Btw I have a rather specific request for a future video and it’s about the spacecraft in Numeria and the planet it originated from. Androffa if I remember correctly. However if it is a little too close to Starfinder or if there isn’t much information on it then I will understand if you decide to not dedicate an entire video to it. You could simply mention what is known in your video about Numeria instead.
I don't have an Androffa video scheduled, but I do have a Numeria video coming up in the near future. Hopefully that can sate the appetite for a little while.
Commenting to say I love your videos. Especially the regional deep dives. I basically only use youtube for D&D and Pathfinder content while I am driving for work. When I get burnt out of the discussions on the mechanics of the game, which I greatly enjoy, I still like listening to your videos to dig into the in universe history of the games I enjoy the most. I'm glad I stumbled across your channel while researching for a character.
I'm glad to see that Pathfinder gave some real thought to the Neutral Good and Neutral Evil planes and outsiders. DnD mostly skated over both, but here they have clear nature theming, but contrast the wisdom and peace of the Agathions and the savagery and cruelty of Daemons. Meanwhile, Yugoloths can't be described as much beyond "manipulative jerks" and Bytopia barely exists.
Pavnuri my favourite: Sicrets and canibalism, great explosive mix, perfectly teamed for untuchuble city cults that no one seem to eradicate or fully undersand
So basically: Devils want to rule the world Demons want to turn the world into their personal playground Daemons want to destroy the world and all life in it
Slowly working my way through the available videos after becoming a member. I find the daemons to be some of the most interesting but underutiIized part of the Pathfinder lore. I really wish there was an AP centered around them like there is for demons and Wrath of the Righteous. But you really are the best out of the Pathfinder lore channels. I may barely ever play in Golarion, but I still always watch your videos just because of how well they're put together, and also because I steal stuff from Golarion and put it into my world. Still, thank you. And I'm not trying to rush you here or anything like that. Make the videos you want to at your own time and pace. I'm just wondering whether the monitors, like aeons, psychopomps, and proteans, are getting their own video, as I find them some of the most interesting parts of the cosmology. Edit: Changed ravenites to psychopomps. Sorry, ravenites is what I call them in my world, and I get confused sometimes.
I'm on the same page. I'm a big fan of daemons, and specifically I'd love a really weird AP where you start the adventure as post-mortal petitioners in Abaddon; ie: one of the hunted. You all show up naked, with a stone knife, and messed up daemons try to kill you. As you progress through the game you start to acquire daemonic changes yourself, but will you control your transformation and retain your sense of self? Who knows! I will definitely be doing some vids on psychopomps, aeons and the other monitors; stay tuned.
@CooperativeWaffles Other than being servants of the Raven Queen and not Pharasma, they're basically just psychopomps with a name and aesthetic change. The Raven Queen is very similar to Pharasma, to the point that I wonder if one inspired the other, so all I needed to do was give them a raven motif.
The long E "daemons" is what I first heard from 40k and I carried it over to PF when I learned about PF's daemons from playing Kingmaker and not listening to Tristian when he said "hey this room's real evil we should leave."
Looking at some of the comments, and here's a clarification from a linguist. In modern English, demon and daemon are indeed homophones, and very much a matter of taste. Warhammer uses the daemon spelling exclusively, for instance. However, if you go back to the original Greek root of the word demon, it is actually spelled (and pronounced!) daimon [DIE-mon]. So, if you want to, using the pronunciation daimon for either spelling is probably fine, and given the homophony, I tend to assign the daimon pronunciation to the daemon spelling, but only if both spellings are (however stupidly) used for different things, simply because it looks more intuitive to assign it to the spelling with an implied diphthong. Or, you know, Paizo can't use the terms Baatezu, Tanar'ri and Yugoloth. Doesn't stop you from using it at your table. Whatever works for you.
Zyphus is one of my favorite evil gods, mainly due to the fact the first campaign adventure path I ran was Iron Gods and his involvement in early events. Him and his followers just lend themselves really well as interesting villains for pc’s to deal with imo.
Glad I was finally able to work him into something since I failed to cover him earlier in my Evil Gods series. Not technically a daemon, but he fits here.
It should be noted that 'ae' like 'th' and 'sh' is a dipthong representing a sound the alphabet doesn't have a letter for, it represents a sound between an a and an e. So strictly speaking even daymon wouldn't necessarily correct
A TTS recently pronounced "daemon" closer to "dī-mon". No where near "dā" yet a hint of "dē" in there. As "dae" (i.e. meaning 'greatness ') is pronounced "dā", I lean toward "dā'môn".
Are you prepared for the changes that will evolve from the remaster project? I know I am not! But I’m here for it. Did I say that right, kids? (Yes, said the non-existent grandkids).
I'm excited to see how Remaster will affect the lore. I'm a big believer in making the game your own, so if there are elements of the game world that don't work for you, you can always use the old lore or use your own.
You know, I really should have. Even though he's bound and defeated, I have talked extensively about Rovagug (and Aroden) so I should have talked about him too.
@@CooperativeWaffles Just to gab and gossip a bit, I'm sure. Honestly, I'm not sure. Charon, likely, more than the others. He's the one who most sees value in wisdom and foresight, and is the most likely to get something out of the Oinodaemon.
That's pretty smart on Zyphus's part. If everyone believes in everything being the result of an accident or random chance. Then, wouldn't he be able to draw power from all deaths by being the god of accidental deaths?
@TheMythKeeper my money is on Demons getting the rename. We know from Rage of Elements that the Abyss, now Outer Rifts, is the only afterlife plane to be renamed, so the same could apply to its inhabitants. On a more logistical note, giving Daemons the rename would be a LOT more work as you'd have to rename every single type of them.
So one thing I wonder is if there is lore connecting the Daemonic Harbringers with other divine entities. Some thoughts that jump out of me right away as possible connections to other divine entities. Anogetz and Milani . Milani is the goddess of Revolution and rebellion, and Anogetz also covers that but more darker aspects. Perhaps Anogetz was once a divine servitor of Milani but her belief in the ends justify the means drove her darker and darker till she became a harbringer. Maybe Milani and Anogetz were friends or lovers once before but eventually Anogetz got corrupted, so a similar dynamic to Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon. Braismois and Asmodeus. Asmodeus as the devil, is the lord of contracts, and lord of having fine print within his deals. So maybe Braismois was once a servant of Asmodeus. A powerful Devil herself one who was climbing the ranks of the hirearchy in hell but did something to displease Asmodeus and instead of face Asmodeus' judgement she fled to Abaddon and became a Harbringer there. Or maybe Braismois is Asmodeus' agent in Abaddon, part of his plan to bring the multiverse under his control. Osolmyr and Zon-Kuthon. Osolmyr sounds exactly like the sort of divine servant that zon-kuthon might have; considering that alignment will be dropped with the remaster, maybe Osolmyr is one of Zon-Kuthon's servants but one who has grown powerful enough to have her own realm within Zon-Kuthon's realm. Those are the three that jumped out to me right away, and some ideas that ran through my head. I also like to imagine that within some Centaur mythology Geon is more well known and popular but also despised at just the same time, maybe similar to how human lands tend to look at the evil gods by and large.
I love these connections. Another cool way to make a connection between the gods is to make use of the fact that these are all post-mortals. Who was Anogetz before she died? Maybe she used to worship Milani and grew up in a place requiring a revolution like Sargava/Vidrian, but found Milani too complacent. Her appetites became more violent and when she died Pharasma condemned her to Abaddon were her malice continued to grow. Maybe she has complicated feelings about Milani, not hate, exactly, but feelings of abandonment. Could be a great way to feature a villain that also creates some sympathy from the players.
I mean, it's kind of a toss-up, for me. For every good reason to say "DAY-mon" there exists an equally valid one for choosing "DIE-mons," so I reckon it's a subjective typa thing
The video is good, however theres an issue with the structure, its very fast paced with no significant dividing points between the topic (so to speak), so any chance of retaining information is lost on the viewer, kinda making the video mush like. Im only saying this as the video is otherwise good, your voice and delivery is great, yet your writing and pacing, makes it sound like youve got a school report and you just want to get it over with despite enjoying the subject. Please take this in the best way possible, i fully accept your content could just not be for my taste.
@@TheMythkeeper I was joking... 😂 I don't care how anyone pronounces anything... As long as it's clear enough to understand what going on in the conversation. I should have put a 😆 emoji... Or started with... "Um, actually" 😁 But, seriously... It's pronounced (Day Mun) 🤣🤣🤣
What’s interesting about the Daemons they were never really formed for mortal souls They were never human it was said that the Lord of the nine hells himself hired a group of night, hags. It turns out these night hags have four books of keeping of the true name of these daemons. It was said if you could find those four books of keeping you can control these creatures, but don’t expect them to follow your command remember, these are neutral evil creatures they were never formed from the souls of mortals, but what’s interesting about these creatures they hired to work for demons or devils in the blood war they don’t choose a side they work whoever has the most gold greed incarnate, and they only think about themselves they can border between the line of chaos or law as they want to Daemon’s are known as yugoloths now the first one and the oldest one yugoloths before all the new ones were created by the night hags are very old, and they were said they were formed before the abyss, and before the fall of the devils when they were cast out from mount Celestia and all of the other upper planes. Basically the heavens they were known as baernaloth
Sure, but she's the Horseman of War. The four horsemen are always Famine, Pestilence, War and Death in Pathfinder and beyond. My apologies if I missed some of the specificity in her portfolio though. I wasn't trying to make a political statement or anything, promise!
@@TheMythkeeper Oh no. I just meant her specific theological concept. Given that her Diabolic counterpart Moloch represents Conquest, we can see why the Forces of Good went out of their way to drag Gorum into Elysium or he could have become their Abyssal counterpart.
This is a cop-out answer, I know, but I don't have a favorite monster in the same way I don't really have a favorite superhero. Its the larger tapestry of monsters (or heroes) that I enjoy, and the interactions that occur between them. If I had to pick one of the 3 main fiendish types (devil, daemons, demons) as my favorite though, I would probably pick daemons.
If sticking with pronouncing "daemon" and "demon" as homophones, please provide a corrected "Closed Captioned" for the video. RUclips's autonomic CC displays "demon" for "daemon".
I will do a pass through all the CC for inclusivity reasons at some point (that work is getting longer and more difficult with each vid I publish). As soon as I have the cycles, will do so though.
Thank you. As is, it sure helps having the title information on the images. Though CC reads "demon" one sees clearly the title shows the correct term of "daemon." Wonder what's the best format for creating the CC. Bet there are listeners willing to transpose the videos to text. Perhaps even better, a few will translate to other languages. These are too good not to share in other tongues.
I mean that’s what happened with D&D, back in 1st edition the 3 fiends were Devils, Daemons, and Demons. However in 2nd editions they changed the names to Baatizu, Yugoloths, and Tenari because of the Satanic Panic, but after the Satanic panic the Daemons/Yugoloths were the only ones that didn’t get their name changed back.
Typically like your content, but there is a difference between demon and daemon. I keep hearing you describe a daemon but using demon. Sorry just like you i cant on this one.
@@craigwatkins3569 - Since I consider daemon to be the correct spelling. Would you prefer if I pronounced the other word "Deh-mon" like in Demonstrate? 😝
@@TheMythkeeper it's OK you already made the video. I got all my bestiarys out and currently reading. While listening to other lore. Daemon(day-mon) is what I was looking for and for me I am hearing demon. It confuses the clear distinction for me that is all. I am happy listening to others content that doesn't confuse me. I started listening to your demon video instead.
@@TheMythkeeper People who mispronounce words have typically only read them, not heard them spoken. It isn’t a bad thing. It shows you are well-read. Ab-ad-don sounded like nails on a chalk board to me though.
@@TheMythkeeper Abaddon comes from "abd Adon" or "abd Edom". The word has Semitic origins. "Abd" is "slave" in Arabic. It was the translation to Greek that made it Abaddon, similar to the Arabic "djinn" to Greek "daemon" to Latin "Demon". Abaddon was likely originally "slavery in Adon (Edom)" or "slavery to Aden (Eden)", but that's trying to trace the semantics back more than thirty centuries, which predates writing in Hebrew, which is likely the origin. I'm an American, but I speak the Queen's English fluently too.
Quick question are you intentionally pay walling content? Are you paying paizo a share of that income? Or is it more of a "members see all shit first" to be released later kind of deal? In either case I now think less of you for it.
Hey thanks for asking. I'm not intentionally pay-walling content. People had been tipping me for a while and I wanted to give those folks something back, so I created the mythwatchers club. Those that join get to see some videos early, that's all. All the content comes out on the channel if you're patient.
I'm going to put this here so I don't feel the urge to reply to all the comments individually.
For all the folks that are still commenting about the pronunciation of daemon, in spite of my disclaimer. Please listen to this: www.google.com/search?q=how+to+pronounce+daemon
That's correct for both UK English and American English. It's a bummer from a clarity standpoint, I know but its technically the same word. Why D&D originally chose to use two spellings of the same word for two different creatures is anyone's guess but this is technically correct. Daemon is a real word, not a fake fantasy one, as a legitimate alternate spelling of demon. Phew!
The only reason I personally use the excessively phonetic pronunciation is to differentiate Demons and Daemons.
No need in any setting where they're not so precisely defined.
@@shiwanabethat's exactly why I do it, and I why I expect most people do as well. Otherwise it feels really confusing when trying to talk about the differences evil outerplanes entities.
The name Damon isn’t pronounced the same a daemon. Neither is Demon. That ae is a liaison, which doesn’t exist in English. That’s why it can be pronounced either way in English. There is a third pronunciation that would look like dayemon written out phonetically.
If you were speaking Greek, it might matter. Although if you were speaking Greek, angels are also daemons.
Now harbinger annoys me. It’s har-binge-er.
Daemon is a much older word, and actually doesn't reference the exact same thing as Demon does.
Daemon does include our traditional idea of demons, but also includes other mystical beings not directly acknowledged as gods.
Demons are the denizens of hell, from whatever culture we're referring to.
Daemons can be Demons, but also gods from someone else's religion. The way I've always remembered it is that Apollo is a god to the Greeks, but a daemon to the Persians.
Lucifer and Pazuzzu are both demons.
Probably the reason why WOTC nameb their residents of the Grey Waste yugoloths, to avoid confusion.
As someone who primarily plays D&D it’s so nice to see the Neutral Evil Outsiders get proper respect as their own distinct faction, the Yugoloths are so under used and a lot of their lore got really heavily cut down and retconned in 5e.
in pathfinder the most similar are the Bibliodaemon, but they are more keen to burocracy rater then direct conctract
Bring me midnight the endless dark,
Bring me beasts that howl and bark,
Bring me crimson liquid red,
Bring me the sickness terror bred,
Bring me thunder lightning true,
Bring me the hope of nothing new,
Rot, decay, dilapidation,
Bring me the end of anticipation.
My favorite of Pathfinder’s Fiends! Thank you for all your hard work, your videos are supreme for Pathfinder lore.
That you so much! My favorites too!
Not a Pathfinder fan or player, but I must admit that they really fleshed out daemons and made them more interesting. I use their stuff in my Castles & Crusades campaign.
holy shit this channel is incredible, no cringe, no commentary just straight up lore so exited to watch everything on this channel!
Awesome! Thank you so much! Welcome to the channel.
Mostly i prefer the "day-mon" pronunciation to "deemon" mostly to help distinguish between the two since one is neutral evil and the other chaotic evil.
Yeah I get that. I just don't like the mouth-feel when I say it. 😆
The "day-mon" pronunciation is also explicitly the proper pronunciation.
Of course the linguistics of demon/daemon are essentially interchangeable as the variations in pronunciation and spelling are largely cultural in origin, and the distinction of using the two versions to denote different categories of infernal creatures is entirely a creation of modern TTRPGs.
As @TheMythKeeper channel becomes the prominent source for many, the pronunciation influences viewers. Treating "deamon" & "demon" as homophones muddies the listener's understanding without additional explanation. Hearing a separate pronunciation for "daemon" avoids confusion at the table and helps differentiate betwixt each in the minds eye. So, to clarify it is a deamon instead of a demon, say "die-mon" or "day-mon" instead of "dee-mon."
Such clarity is worth a bit more air 💨 rumbling across the 👅 tongue.
Is good exercise, to boot.
Also, a more flexible lingua even improve one's enjoyment of their next 🍽 plate of 🧇 waffles 🧇.
@ElenaAideen
What about pronouncing daemon as "die-mon" over "day-mon"?
I tend toward daemon as "day-mon" as "dae" is pronounced "day". But recently had an Australian TTS pronounce it as "die-mon".
@@ElenaAideen I didn't realize Paizo had ever said this. Regardless, I grew up with Warhammer (and with Pierre-Simon Laplace I suppose) so daemon is just a fun way to spell demon to me.
Both pronunciations are perfectly acceptable. The two words have the same Greek root anyway. Love the quality of your content, and you could pronounce it "freds" for all I care. Keep up the awesome work on my favorite world.
Awesome, thank you!
After months of hiatus from commenting, I return.
Holy crap I have a lot to catch up on.
Always was intrested in figuring out the diffience between Daemons, devils, and demons. Or more like; how to Daemons fit into the "Evil" side of the alignment creatures.
At any rate, it's always awesome to see you posting content! Cant wait to dig into this.
Hey welcome back! I think Daemons are actually weirdly my favorite of the three main fiendish types although definitely the least explored in the lore. I think Demons which is coming out fairly soon will be a fun one to watch.
Gotta love how all deities in Abaddon seemingly are just chill with one another. The Horsemen just do their own thing and stay out of each other's ways, Urgathoa and Zyphos are just being good neighbours. They have no reasons to mess with one another and don't look for one.
Who knew neutral evil neighbors make good neighbors
Urgathoa and Zyphus are definitely chill, but I also think that the Four Horsemen don't get along with each other as much as all that. They agree to disagree a lot.
@@TheMythkeeper Sorry, haven't made it through the whole video yet. The Horsemen kinda just have a working relationship. The things they do agree on are that all life must be destroyed/consumed and that the Oinodaemon needs to be kept locked up. Hope you mention how War's position has a high turnover rate hahaha
Super happy to see this! Just started an evil campaign where i am playing a caster who worships Charon! This will be perfect to have and watch any time i need a refresher. 💜
Nice! Charon is very cool.
Six weeks ago, there were Devils. Six weeks from that point, we get Deamons. I suspect that six weeks from now we'll get Demons. There's no pattern here, no no no.... >_>
Hahaha, you've absolutely solved it here! Haha!
This post deserves to be pinned for all to 👀 see.
Also, such wit earns extra whipped cream on your next plate 🍽 of 🧇 waffles 🧇!!!
My group run into some daemons two sessions ago that was beyond us we ended up retreating when one of them killed the barbarian we was able to bring her back to life by using a ritual spell but that's a fight I won't forget anytime soon that's for sure
Oh man this is cool. Daemons are not often explored as in depth as the other two so I'm excited to get an injection of knowldge about them.Maybe I'll get some inspiration to include them in my campaign! These videos always have at least some effect on my campaign as I strive to give my players a little bit of experience of the whole multiverse of Pathfinder!
Gotta respect you mentioning Folca. Even Paizo themselves said they'd back away from him. I frankly can't blame them, their portfolio is distasteful even among evil entities, though I felt it a shameful waste. Long ago, I did a rewrite of Folca that leaned more on their dominion over sugar. I think it's still in the Paizo forums, called 'Folca Redone'. Had a thing where Folca was worshipped as a god of baked goods by people who didn't know better and other aspects of his cult actually abducted and killed people who tried to reveal the truth to preserve the innocence of the confectioners, because Folca themselves is an 'oblivious evil' that just... does evil without really knowing or thinking it was evil, and got exceptionally upset if someone tried to make them aware of the fact.
I do try to be comprehensive! I like this take on Folca too
Been looking forward to seeing this since your video on the Evil Planes. Brilliant as usual.
Btw I have a rather specific request for a future video and it’s about the spacecraft in Numeria and the planet it originated from. Androffa if I remember correctly. However if it is a little too close to Starfinder or if there isn’t much information on it then I will understand if you decide to not dedicate an entire video to it. You could simply mention what is known in your video about Numeria instead.
I don't have an Androffa video scheduled, but I do have a Numeria video coming up in the near future. Hopefully that can sate the appetite for a little while.
Some say there is a Fifth Horseman- Conquest- but he is but a myth.
I think I allude to this in the video as well...
@@TheMythkeeperaye, with the Armageddon daemons
Was not expecting the art for Cixyron to go so hard! He looks so friggin cool! Like an anime villan
Commenting to say I love your videos. Especially the regional deep dives. I basically only use youtube for D&D and Pathfinder content while I am driving for work. When I get burnt out of the discussions on the mechanics of the game, which I greatly enjoy, I still like listening to your videos to dig into the in universe history of the games I enjoy the most. I'm glad I stumbled across your channel while researching for a character.
Much appreciated!
I'm glad to see that Pathfinder gave some real thought to the Neutral Good and Neutral Evil planes and outsiders. DnD mostly skated over both, but here they have clear nature theming, but contrast the wisdom and peace of the Agathions and the savagery and cruelty of Daemons.
Meanwhile, Yugoloths can't be described as much beyond "manipulative jerks" and Bytopia barely exists.
Yeah Nirvana and Abaddon are definitely core elements of the Pathfinder setting, as important as all the other outer planes
Pavnuri my favourite:
Sicrets and canibalism, great explosive mix, perfectly teamed for untuchuble city cults that no one seem to eradicate or fully undersand
So basically:
Devils want to rule the world
Demons want to turn the world into their personal playground
Daemons want to destroy the world and all life in it
Yep!
Slowly working my way through the available videos after becoming a member. I find the daemons to be some of the most interesting but underutiIized part of the Pathfinder lore. I really wish there was an AP centered around them like there is for demons and Wrath of the Righteous.
But you really are the best out of the Pathfinder lore channels. I may barely ever play in Golarion, but I still always watch your videos just because of how well they're put together, and also because I steal stuff from Golarion and put it into my world. Still, thank you.
And I'm not trying to rush you here or anything like that. Make the videos you want to at your own time and pace. I'm just wondering whether the monitors, like aeons, psychopomps, and proteans, are getting their own video, as I find them some of the most interesting parts of the cosmology.
Edit: Changed ravenites to psychopomps. Sorry, ravenites is what I call them in my world, and I get confused sometimes.
I'm on the same page. I'm a big fan of daemons, and specifically I'd love a really weird AP where you start the adventure as post-mortal petitioners in Abaddon; ie: one of the hunted. You all show up naked, with a stone knife, and messed up daemons try to kill you. As you progress through the game you start to acquire daemonic changes yourself, but will you control your transformation and retain your sense of self? Who knows!
I will definitely be doing some vids on psychopomps, aeons and the other monitors; stay tuned.
Are "Ravenites" a straight transfer or are there differences?
If so, tell us about "Ravenites" and their lore. 😊
@CooperativeWaffles Other than being servants of the Raven Queen and not Pharasma, they're basically just psychopomps with a name and aesthetic change. The Raven Queen is very similar to Pharasma, to the point that I wonder if one inspired the other, so all I needed to do was give them a raven motif.
I do have a video on the psychopomps coming out in the not too distant future. Stay tuned!
The long E "daemons" is what I first heard from 40k and I carried it over to PF when I learned about PF's daemons from playing Kingmaker and not listening to Tristian when he said "hey this room's real evil we should leave."
"i'm not goin to" "feels like the right way"
gently but firmly say no
jajaja awesome!
Jeje ;-)
Looking at some of the comments, and here's a clarification from a linguist. In modern English, demon and daemon are indeed homophones, and very much a matter of taste. Warhammer uses the daemon spelling exclusively, for instance. However, if you go back to the original Greek root of the word demon, it is actually spelled (and pronounced!) daimon [DIE-mon]. So, if you want to, using the pronunciation daimon for either spelling is probably fine, and given the homophony, I tend to assign the daimon pronunciation to the daemon spelling, but only if both spellings are (however stupidly) used for different things, simply because it looks more intuitive to assign it to the spelling with an implied diphthong.
Or, you know, Paizo can't use the terms Baatezu, Tanar'ri and Yugoloth. Doesn't stop you from using it at your table. Whatever works for you.
Batezu comes from Akkadian, so Paizo could use that if they wish. Ta’anari I’m not certain of the origin, so that may be unusable.
Great work, love all your vids so far. But totally forgot you were talking about Abaddon every time you pronounced Daemon like Demon 😅
The titles the Harbingers take on are really metal sounding.
The word Harbinger on its own is pretty metal.
*rubs hands together hungrily
TRAITOR LEGIONS! HERESY! DAEMONNNSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
good job! :D
Haha! Thank you
Zyphus is one of my favorite evil gods, mainly due to the fact the first campaign adventure path I ran was Iron Gods and his involvement in early events. Him and his followers just lend themselves really well as interesting villains for pc’s to deal with imo.
Glad I was finally able to work him into something since I failed to cover him earlier in my Evil Gods series. Not technically a daemon, but he fits here.
That was amazing to watch !
Thank you!
It should be noted that 'ae' like 'th' and 'sh' is a dipthong representing a sound the alphabet doesn't have a letter for, it represents a sound between an a and an e. So strictly speaking even daymon wouldn't necessarily correct
A TTS recently pronounced "daemon" closer to "dī-mon". No where near "dā" yet a hint of "dē" in there.
As "dae" (i.e. meaning 'greatness ') is pronounced "dā", I lean toward "dā'môn".
@@CooperativeWaffles there's a reason I didn't say it was incorrect, just not necessarily correct
I'm so intrigued by thay door. Is that your home. I've only seen that door suppressor in businesses
Are you prepared for the changes that will evolve from the remaster project? I know I am not! But I’m here for it. Did I say that right, kids? (Yes, said the non-existent grandkids).
I'm excited to see how Remaster will affect the lore. I'm a big believer in making the game your own, so if there are elements of the game world that don't work for you, you can always use the old lore or use your own.
No mention of the Oinodaemon? Surprising
You know, I really should have. Even though he's bound and defeated, I have talked extensively about Rovagug (and Aroden) so I should have talked about him too.
The Horseman do visit Oinodaemon periodically. Don't they?
@@CooperativeWaffles Just to gab and gossip a bit, I'm sure. Honestly, I'm not sure. Charon, likely, more than the others. He's the one who most sees value in wisdom and foresight, and is the most likely to get something out of the Oinodaemon.
Positive comment!
That's pretty smart on Zyphus's part. If everyone believes in everything being the result of an accident or random chance. Then, wouldn't he be able to draw power from all deaths by being the god of accidental deaths?
I might be late to the party, but have you ever considered publishing these videos as podcasts? I imagine it’d do pretty decently
There is apparently a way to convert youtube vids to podcast format, so that's something I'm actively looking into now.
This is my favorite of the lower planes
Me too!
Where do you find all of this perfect background art? I can't find any of it.
Artstation, Pinterest and DeviantArt are my usual haunts
Daemons are so cool, but I REALLY hope they or demons get a rename with the O.R.C. remaster.
Seems reasonably likely, but we'll see ;-)
@TheMythKeeper my money is on Demons getting the rename. We know from Rage of Elements that the Abyss, now Outer Rifts, is the only afterlife plane to be renamed, so the same could apply to its inhabitants. On a more logistical note, giving Daemons the rename would be a LOT more work as you'd have to rename every single type of them.
@@roboticjanitor3332 Also Daemon is the cooler way to spell Demon ;-)
So one thing I wonder is if there is lore connecting the Daemonic Harbringers with other divine entities. Some thoughts that jump out of me right away as possible connections to other divine entities.
Anogetz and Milani . Milani is the goddess of Revolution and rebellion, and Anogetz also covers that but more darker aspects. Perhaps Anogetz was once a divine servitor of Milani but her belief in the ends justify the means drove her darker and darker till she became a harbringer. Maybe Milani and Anogetz were friends or lovers once before but eventually Anogetz got corrupted, so a similar dynamic to Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon.
Braismois and Asmodeus. Asmodeus as the devil, is the lord of contracts, and lord of having fine print within his deals. So maybe Braismois was once a servant of Asmodeus. A powerful Devil herself one who was climbing the ranks of the hirearchy in hell but did something to displease Asmodeus and instead of face Asmodeus' judgement she fled to Abaddon and became a Harbringer there. Or maybe Braismois is Asmodeus' agent in Abaddon, part of his plan to bring the multiverse under his control.
Osolmyr and Zon-Kuthon. Osolmyr sounds exactly like the sort of divine servant that zon-kuthon might have; considering that alignment will be dropped with the remaster, maybe Osolmyr is one of Zon-Kuthon's servants but one who has grown powerful enough to have her own realm within Zon-Kuthon's realm.
Those are the three that jumped out to me right away, and some ideas that ran through my head.
I also like to imagine that within some Centaur mythology Geon is more well known and popular but also despised at just the same time, maybe similar to how human lands tend to look at the evil gods by and large.
I love these connections. Another cool way to make a connection between the gods is to make use of the fact that these are all post-mortals. Who was Anogetz before she died? Maybe she used to worship Milani and grew up in a place requiring a revolution like Sargava/Vidrian, but found Milani too complacent. Her appetites became more violent and when she died Pharasma condemned her to Abaddon were her malice continued to grow. Maybe she has complicated feelings about Milani, not hate, exactly, but feelings of abandonment. Could be a great way to feature a villain that also creates some sympathy from the players.
I mean, it's kind of a toss-up, for me. For every good reason to say "DAY-mon" there exists an equally valid one for choosing "DIE-mons," so I reckon it's a subjective typa thing
Interesting use of MTG art for Tamede.
There was no official art and I knew the best place to find fungus-gods would be in the Golgari faction from mtg
@@TheMythkeeper makes sense to me!
6:30 Dr. Zoidberg seems...different.
Haha, he does look like Zoidberg
Many modern religious populations are actually followers of Ruapceros
Harbinger has a hard g, and there are fewer archdevils, 8, than there are daemon harbingers, at least 30.
But there are many more infernal dukes 😉
Oh god someone call the SCP foundation to look these up yikes. (Awesome video as always)
Haha, thanks!
I just love how much the images don't match the descriptions. Silly Paizo.
When the images don’t match it means there are no images, so I’ve had to find proxies!
@@TheMythkeeper Really? Dang, good work finding stuff that's in the same style. :)
@@shiwanabe Thank you 🙂
The video is good, however theres an issue with the structure, its very fast paced with no significant dividing points between the topic (so to speak), so any chance of retaining information is lost on the viewer, kinda making the video mush like. Im only saying this as the video is otherwise good, your voice and delivery is great, yet your writing and pacing, makes it sound like youve got a school report and you just want to get it over with despite enjoying the subject. Please take this in the best way possible, i fully accept your content could just not be for my taste.
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate the constructive comments as well as the positive ones. Will work on this.
So Abbadon is a huge batlle royal?
yeah it kind of is
Cool
So uhm technically they're Daemons of Chaos from Warhammer? 😅
🤣🤣🤣
👏👏👏
Folca is the creepiest thing ever!
He's got a nice candy cane for you though ;-)
Daemon
Greek mythology
(Day ee mun)
Unix
(Day mun)
*It is not an alternate spelling on Demon*
Harbinger
(Har ben jeer)
Le sigh - www.google.com/search?q=how+to+pronounce+daemon
Harbinger I totally said wrong
@@TheMythkeeper
I was joking... 😂
I don't care how anyone pronounces anything...
As long as it's clear enough to understand what going on in the conversation.
I should have put a 😆 emoji...
Or started with...
"Um, actually" 😁
But, seriously...
It's pronounced (Day Mun)
🤣🤣🤣
@@DustyLeeSledge 😅
What’s interesting about the Daemons they were never really formed for mortal souls They were never human it was said that the Lord of the nine hells himself hired a group of night, hags. It turns out these night hags have four books of keeping of the true name of these daemons. It was said if you could find those four books of keeping you can control these creatures, but don’t expect them to follow your command remember, these are neutral evil creatures they were never formed from the souls of mortals, but what’s interesting about these creatures they hired to work for demons or devils in the blood war they don’t choose a side they work whoever has the most gold greed incarnate, and they only think about themselves they can border between the line of chaos or law as they want to Daemon’s are known as yugoloths now the first one and the oldest one yugoloths before all the new ones were created by the night hags are very old, and they were said they were formed before the abyss, and before the fall of the devils when they were cast out from mount Celestia and all of the other upper planes. Basically the heavens they were known as baernaloth
You're mixing up some D&D lore in with your Pathfinder lore, but that's okay. There was never a Blood War in Pathfinder.
@@TheMythkeeper i’m sorry for mixing up DND lore with pathfinder lore. That’s kind of funny.😹😂🤣🥴.
Thumbnail looks like a rocker skeleton lol.
Thanadaemons are total rocker skeletons
War Crimes. Szuriel is the Goddess of War Crimes, not War. There is a difference.
Sure, but she's the Horseman of War. The four horsemen are always Famine, Pestilence, War and Death in Pathfinder and beyond. My apologies if I missed some of the specificity in her portfolio though. I wasn't trying to make a political statement or anything, promise!
@@TheMythkeeper Oh no. I just meant her specific theological concept. Given that her Diabolic counterpart Moloch represents Conquest, we can see why the Forces of Good went out of their way to drag Gorum into Elysium or he could have become their Abyssal counterpart.
I want to like this video but it currently has 666 likes and that just feels right.
Yes! That's amazing!
Whats your Favorite monster?
This is a cop-out answer, I know, but I don't have a favorite monster in the same way I don't really have a favorite superhero. Its the larger tapestry of monsters (or heroes) that I enjoy, and the interactions that occur between them. If I had to pick one of the 3 main fiendish types (devil, daemons, demons) as my favorite though, I would probably pick daemons.
@@TheMythkeeper my favorite type of monster is draconic red and White dragon
love the pathfinder lore everything about it.
If sticking with pronouncing "daemon" and "demon" as homophones, please provide a corrected "Closed Captioned" for the video.
RUclips's autonomic CC displays "demon" for "daemon".
I will do a pass through all the CC for inclusivity reasons at some point (that work is getting longer and more difficult with each vid I publish). As soon as I have the cycles, will do so though.
Thank you.
As is, it sure helps having the title information on the images. Though CC reads "demon" one sees clearly the title shows the correct term of "daemon."
Wonder what's the best format for creating the CC. Bet there are listeners willing to transpose the videos to text. Perhaps even better, a few will translate to other languages. These are too good not to share in other tongues.
Why da fuck not to name them something different? How's about fiends or Spawn or something.
I mean that’s what happened with D&D, back in 1st edition the 3 fiends were Devils, Daemons, and Demons. However in 2nd editions they changed the names to Baatizu, Yugoloths, and Tenari because of the Satanic Panic, but after the Satanic panic the Daemons/Yugoloths were the only ones that didn’t get their name changed back.
There's some good lore for you right there!
Typically like your content, but there is a difference between demon and daemon. I keep hearing you describe a daemon but using demon. Sorry just like you i cant on this one.
Your disclaimer doesn't help when they are two separate entities.
@@craigwatkins3569 - Since I consider daemon to be the correct spelling. Would you prefer if I pronounced the other word "Deh-mon" like in Demonstrate? 😝
@@TheMythkeeper it's OK you already made the video. I got all my bestiarys out and currently reading. While listening to other lore. Daemon(day-mon) is what I was looking for and for me I am hearing demon. It confuses the clear distinction for me that is all. I am happy listening to others content that doesn't confuse me. I started listening to your demon video instead.
@@craigwatkins3569 I was just teasing, thanks for watching and I do appreciate the engagement and feedback.
I do like you call them "dee-mons"
I don't like you call them "har-bing-ers"
That is a mistake, I admit 😅
@@TheMythkeeper People who mispronounce words have typically only read them, not heard them spoken. It isn’t a bad thing. It shows you are well-read.
Ab-ad-don sounded like nails on a chalk board to me though.
@@almitrahopkins1873 - I actually think this is a UK vs US english thing. Harbinger is a total error though
@@TheMythkeeper Abaddon comes from "abd Adon" or "abd Edom". The word has Semitic origins. "Abd" is "slave" in Arabic.
It was the translation to Greek that made it Abaddon, similar to the Arabic "djinn" to Greek "daemon" to Latin "Demon". Abaddon was likely originally "slavery in Adon (Edom)" or "slavery to Aden (Eden)", but that's trying to trace the semantics back more than thirty centuries, which predates writing in Hebrew, which is likely the origin.
I'm an American, but I speak the Queen's English fluently too.
thumbs down for refusing to not sound stupid for pronouncing a word incorrectly
I relish the thumbs down on this particular video!
Sorry. It's 'day-mun' not 'dee-men.' Pronouncing demon and daemon the same way is just lazy. Channel blocked.
You do you I guess.
Quick question are you intentionally pay walling content? Are you paying paizo a share of that income?
Or is it more of a "members see all shit first" to be released later kind of deal?
In either case I now think less of you for it.
Hey thanks for asking. I'm not intentionally pay-walling content. People had been tipping me for a while and I wanted to give those folks something back, so I created the mythwatchers club. Those that join get to see some videos early, that's all. All the content comes out on the channel if you're patient.