Putin and Trump: a new axis against NATO and Ukraine? | To the Point
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- Опубликовано: 27 май 2024
- Donald Trump sounds like an extortionist. If allies want the protection of the USA, they have to pay. It is a blunt warning by the Republican presidential candidate, and a taste of what’s to come should he return to the presidency. Russia would be able to do whatever it wants with delinquent NATO members; a possibility that appalls and horrifies NATO partner states. Many EU countries see Trump's statements as a wake-up call to become militarily self-sufficient. Ukraine is also planning to challenge Russia with new military leadership and a new strategy. On To the Point we ask: Putin and Trump: a new axis against NATO and Ukraine?
Rachel Tausendfreund, is a Senior Fellow at the German Marshall Fund.
Moritz Gathmann, is a reporter for Germany’s Stern for which he recently reported from Ukraine.
Nico Lange, is a political consultant and security expert, and a Senior Fellow at the Munich Security Conference, he’s joining us from Munich.
Chapters
00:00 Trump knows how to grab attention.
02:30 Do we want to deal with Trump’s remarks every day?
03:10 Europeans should “hope for the best and prepare for the worst”.
05:20 Is European security possible without the US?
07:10 War is now a real possibility in Europe.
08:30 Trump doesn’t believe NATO stands for US-values.
10:10 Trump’s words sound like an invitation for Putin.
10:50 Does Putin want to restore the territory of the Soviet Union?
12:50 NATO’s members are not meeting their budget targets.
14:00 How many wake-up calls does Europe need?
14:30 Europeans always look for someone else to solve their security problems.
17:10 The mood in Ukraine is very dire.
19:00 Ukraine needs to rethink its mobilization.
20:10 Europe must raise its production capabilities.
21:30 Someone needs to lead the process of supporting Ukraine.
22:10 What about the relation between Putin and Trump?
24:30 “The signal to Putin must be: Whatever you do you lose”.
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#Tothepoint #Trump #NATO
It's Trump who warned Germans on depending on Russia for gas. I still remember DW ridiculed him at that time
And DW always conveniently forgets that.
Media never admits when they're wrong.
Trump has a very poor understanding of geopolitics and like all autocrats see others through the lens of how he sees others by his self-interest.
Trump is limited in this way because he cannot reason that unlike the US today that Europe doesn't have sufficient oil resources to support its level of economic and social activity so has to purchase oil from abroad and Russia is the nearest and cheapest oil supplier. And, Trump is blind to self gratification, no matter the morals and ethics, any country that is willing to line Trump's personal pockets gets his support.
The Baltic states have been saying that for 20 years.
Trump is a businessman and a builder. He sees the world through an economic lens, not a political lens. And that's gives him an advantage. Trump wants the USA to be treated fairly and he's looking to make a deal. And if other countries won't deal fairly with us he'll use hardball negotiating tactics.
No sense of urgency . Wake up Macron and Scholz!
These two are just obedient poodles of whoever comes to WH 😂
Vote for candidates who support EUA 👍
You must be smoking @pade1365, naming France with Germany. Since the 90's, EVERY french presidents were advocating for an European army, but nobody cared at the time. Saying Fr is ludicrous and just want more power. And now the French are hearing that it doesn't do enough from the same who were/ are American puppets, is crazy. This is the same people who just want to blindly buy American when buying european is also a big part of European defense because it brings independence and is cheaper. And the same countries are not shocked that with the second or third military budget ( globally) we need to put more money to avoid uncle Sam fury. Russia military budget is now between 60-80 $B, Europe must be around 200-300 $B. So tell me what's wrong?
Don't know wth they are doing... everyone can see this
@@SunRiseEvery-day macron obviously support EUA
European nations need to get serious about funding their military. Too long have they relied on the US. A strong NATO alliance means ALL are contributing adequate funding.
I don't understand how Trump and Biden are the 2 candidates for both parties. How can neither of them find a more competent leader?
341 million people, and these 2 are the best candidates they can present 🤣
Mind your own business
A lot of totally brainwashed controlled voters.
The result of the two-party structure of US govt. I voted against Biden in the Primary but the Democratic Party wanted him to represent them so my only choice is Trump or Biden. A barrel of rocks would be better than Trump.
@@USMC-Sniper-0137 it’s the world interest !
Europe can protect itself as long as politicans will wake up
In 2022 only 7 of the 30 NATO countries met their agreed upon investment defense contributions as a NATO member. Shouldn't this be a central theme of this discussion? There is a strange irony in requiring the US to honor its end of the bargain when 23 out of 30 NATO countries were not holding up their end of the bargain in 2022. Still, I disagree with any serious notion of not honoring NATO agreements to defend countries due to countries not paying their fair share but shouldn't Europe be holding up its end of the bargain? This seems to be strangely lacking as a focus in the conversation.
It is trending in the right direction.
It should be noted that defence spending by European NATO nations, in 2001 when article 5 was invoked (the only time in history this has happened) nations held up their end of the bargain and went to war in the defence of the United States.
I am personally less interested in percentages of defence spending than I am about member nations willingness to honour their commitment to collective defence, which is the foundation of the NATO alliance.
@carlyar5281 very few countries joined the US in 2001 or thereafter. Including the 2 biggest in the EU Germany and France.
Europe is rich, go take care of yourselves, it's time to get out of the US nest, please go grow up.
@@jiminy82 nice assumption. I am not European. I did, however, serve in Afghanistan.
I can’t tell if you were saying that France and Germany didn’t join or did. But they were both part of the coalition.
@@carlyar5281 define part of the coalition... please do. This will be fun.
@@jiminy82 Wrong! ALL NATO countries (except for Turkey) answered the call for article 5 and joined in Afghanistan. The war crime against Iraq however, only a few European countries joined.
Europe needs to move beyond NATO, and quickly. The US is leaving the world stage.
Not if trump loses.
The US isn’t leaving the world stage… the US is wanting to prioritize Americans for once. Our tax money does little for the American people, but is constantly sent overseas for aid by the hundreds of billions.
I’d like to enjoy universal health care and an affordable college education (both luxuries that other NATO countries enjoy) but I can’t because too much of my tax money is funneled into the military to provide European security.
I empathize with Europeans for living so close to dictators, I really do, but it’s time they become less reliant on the US for their security (and the US is always open to anyone who wants to legally immigrate here).
I really don’t think these sentiments are all that outrageous…
@williamstidham7704 pipe dream buddy let's be real for a bit. The moment any politician advocates cutting defense spending will result in career suicide. If by miracle they actually cut spending its just going to go to the uber wealthy
This isn't the first time that Europe has discovered its inability to act militarily. It took years for Europe to decide to take action to rein in Belgrade in the Kosovo case.
There were a lot of atrocities and war crimes committed before the intervention.
This time around with Ukraine, Europe proved itself to defend with greatly increased military budgeting and the art of the De-liberators.
@@williamstidham7704 Sure, sure. Chicken out. Do it quietly. Couldn't care less about your daft excuses. Save it for Putin.
Europe needs to pay up!
What Trump said is of less importance. Its the effect that matters, and all of a sudden it seems Europe got the message. So where all former presidents failed to motivate them - Trump succeded. It amazes me the media still dont have a clue on how Trump works.
you cannot be friends with putin and nato at the same time...its amazing how the far right can't see this...
That’s right prepare for the worst, like you were supposed to years ago then you would have been in a better position to support Ukraine 🇺🇦
Ukraine are received over half a trillion in aid in two years!! If they can't make small gains with that, nothing will
basicly a vote for trump is a vote against EU. looks like we need to grow up and take care of our self. Also we shoud avoid being pulled in the US China conflict and have them manage it themself.
America 🇺🇸 first ! Why should we care about Europe problems when they don’t even make an effort for their own security . we have our own problems. Pay your share that’s all we are asking
Exactly, we need EUA and build our military industry. Everything made in the EU, STOP0 spending tens of billions on American weapons. Let's boost our economy and people's pockets.
@@Dslfd Dont underestimate the income US get from the Military complex and the money EU spends on US weapons. it may not be visable but we spend a lot there. If we bring this back to the EU i expect jobs in the US will be lost and EU econemy will bennefit. This will only be felt after 10 years or so when EU got their own factorys up and running
There are isolationist factions in both the US and EU. Calls to avoid backing the US in efforts supporting Tiawan and free access to the China Sea are just one example.
Maybe a senile candidate with the key to start nuclear war?😮
Trump is tired of US footing the bill
for European freeloaders.
That's hilarious. Trump still has bills he never pays.
😂 Trump doesn’t pay one bill of his own. Everyone is owed money by him. No bank wants to lend to him.
Maybe that’s Putin’s role with Trump
@@Grimeyhoob No banks want to lend to him? How do you suppose he built those businesses? Billions from the tooth fairy?
Paradoxically, the USA is the only member of NATO that has taken profit of article 5 a couple of times. For instance after 9/11 in 2001.
dey also 70-80% of the money
when it comes to them it is always good to help with the article5 we got all that attack afterwards, many people died and now they don't want to help when we are in trouble
@@cwpv2477 So 70% of the money and 100% of the benefit and yet they complain
And paradoxically, the USA is the only nation in NATO that has meet it's contractual obligation every year since NATO existed.
Don't lie! The US did not invoke art. 5 after 9/11 it was Germany and the UK in NATO.
Awesome talk’s 👏👏 let’s move on ourselves together. From Portugal 🇵🇹 with love to all EU partners and friends
Imagine Europe so many little countries in it ? Imagine if every country it’s not in nato? Imagine what Putin can do ? Actually all you could do is walk in one of those million small countries and fart and whole Europe will be at war … thats why Putin don’t like nato so he can do whatever he wants
Europe need nato more than anybody else need nato
Putin didn't bring Russia to NATO, but NATO keeps expanding eastward right to their doorstep.
Sure, Europe under US direction did not consider and belittles the security of Russia and this is the result.
How wrong you are Sir The USA needs NATO way more, all of the east coast USA IBM's early warning sites are in NATO Countries no NATO no protection. China NK and all the other American hating Countries would have a open path to fire their IBM at the White House. I bet Putin would pull out of Ukraine so he could attack the USA to
@@petertiang71He did though, he invaded, Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine. While also threatening countries and making provocative comments.
@@petertiang71 Read the Minsk agreement. Not one word about NATO at all after years of cold war.
NATO needs the US, and they're pissing them off.
After Trump's comments, EU countries are focusing on increasing their military spending....so it looks like it worked, no?
After trump's comments putin can plan ahead and make sure he holds off till his buddy gets in office, no?
I would guess it has more to do with Putin's actions.
It also sends the signal to dictators that they can indeed split the democratic states against each other. Very dangerous
@@Pierluigi_Di_Lorenzo Not really. Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 but Germany and many European countries still increases dependency on Russian oil and gas. When Trump became President in 2016, he warned Europe that continued dependency on Russian oil and gas will embolden Putin to take more Ukrainian lands.
@@dilucragnvindr130Why then has Europe increased its defense spending after Feb 22, did Trump say anything around that date?
Herr Lange has a great point: our future is in NATO but Europe has to unite on the common military matter!
But the cold war ended in 1990 with the peaceful withdrawal of (only) Russian Troops and the immediate advance eastwards of American nukes and bases.....
@@clavichord lol you must've missed the times where russia was blackmailing with sanctions / illegaly invading countries like georgia crushing separatists like chechenia
@@clavichordguess what happened to the only one who did not join NATO
@@clavichordPutin started expanding again the second Russia became stabilized again. It took a while.
Old Soviet countries saw the writing on the wall. Saw Russia becoming more aggressive again, and didn't want to be controlled again.
So they joined NATO on their own violation. Russia has done this to themselves to the point even countries like Finland have joined.
Russia dug their own grave with countries joining NATO by their actions in Ukraine 2014, Georgia, and Chechnya.
So no the US is not responsible outside of actually having a military to be on par with Russia.
Putin saw how weak politically Europe was, and took advantage of it. He realized Europeans can't defend themselves. His only mistake was not planning for Ukraine to actually fight back.
Russia is the aggressor. Not the US. US has only helped countries secure their own country.
No one was threatening Russia with war by the way. Only an insane man would invade Russia.
To the victors go the spoils, do better.
"you have to pay the bill!"
in other words: you have to buy our stuff... give me your euros
Columbia didn't demand it so. It was just easier and cheaper for many European countries because NATO compatibility would come with it and Columbian arms are frequently updated with the lessons learnt from the new skirmishes.
Columbian defense industry is second to none in the amount of money 💰 shovelled to them.
No, pay the bill means pay the NATO quota that most NATO countries are delinquently not meeting. Don't be a Freeloader when US taxpayer is on the hook for your safety.
or, support the great defense companies in Europe
@@elajoanna6028 "pay to quota" means investing at least 2% of gdp in our own military, ergo buying from US.
Same with energie, "don't rely on (cheap) russian natural gas" pay for expensive US LNG
The USA benefits from its alliance with Europe. But you don't want to see this side, you prefer to stand there and only question what you give, not what you get
@@elajoanna6028 There's no quota for NATO and there's not freeloading because no one ever invested in european security but europeans. Delinquents are the ones who blackmail others into paying for security.
Niko Lange was absolutely right about strength in NATO and Europe, we spent too long relying on America and Germany bending to the cheap Russian energy bullying, from which some individuals actually made a lot of private money. This is exactly why Britain left Europe
Britian left Europe because they were lied to by fearmongers and believed they were the tax payer of the EU, which they were not. And how do you do, you still have to abide by EU laws. The fishing sector is going bankrupt, villages are going bankrupts, export is now worse then it ever was. Good for the Brits i guess, cant afford healthcare, cant afford a dentist, but hey... king of their castle again.
it is definitely time for Europe to think about an autonomous self-defence ... the Mediterranean Sea is well protected ... the North Sea needs aircraft carriers that do no exist yet ... infantry troops need to me increased everywhere ...
yall really want world war again huh? no war without soldiers
Are you implying that the UK doesn't have aircraft carriers?
@@HuskyOwner-bl1jfno ... sorry, I meant Baltic Sea and I wrote North Sea
@@claudiomannoni5557@claudiomannoni5557 The Baltic Sea is close enough to land; a large geographical landmass acts as a giant carrier for dispersed operations.
aircraft carriers are not very useful for defence of our own territory. It would be a big floating target in the Baltic sea. And they are extremely expensive to build and operate, that money would be better spent on something else.
Just pay 2%. Like you supposed to
Be careful what you wish for. Some NATO countries have reached the 2% threshold and others have raised the payment under a plans that will get them to the threshold.
At this juncture the US has bases sprinkled all over Europe. Before I get the in defense of Europe, WWII has been over for decades now. Let's not pretend that these bases aren't strategic for its interests in the Middle East. And those bases have been there without proper compensation as well. I can just imagine the American head explosions if say Germany or France for example, plopped bases across several states. The anger over a foreign country coming into the US and doing so without proper compensation would be through the roof.
And let's not forget that since WWII, the only NATO nation that has called for support in their skirmishes and wars has been the USA. The US relies on the EU for those bases. Ukraine, you say? The French were negotiating a peace that would have gone through if the US didn't step in and refuse the negotiations. This war has dragged on needlessly because of US intervention that wasn't asked for by the way and In its hubris, it has hurt more than helped and now has the gall to walk away from the mess it made as if they weren't responsible.
I have to thank Trump. If it wasn't for his threats, then the EU would not have started building their military up. And Germany was finally given the green light just a few years ago to rebuild their army. Something they weren't allowed to do after WWII. Rome isn't built in a day, but the day will come.
And I believe when that day comes, the US will not be better for it. I hope the EU flexes its muscles then and does what the US would do in the same circumstances and kick the US bases off their turf. The US needs the EU as much as the EU needs the US. The US is quick to forget that as well. Unfortunately that lesson will only be learned the hard way.
@@Iris-hx6ox Why would Germany and France plop bases in the states? This makes absolutely zero sense. I think you need educate yourself before making outlandish scenarios. After WW2, Europe was devasted, Germany especially so. So, the United States established bases all over Europe and abroad to keep the Soviets bottled and to protect Europe and it's own interests.
The United States was not ravaged by war and in need of protection from other countries, so what logical sense would it make for Germany and France to establish bases in the U.S? I swear, sometimes people say ridiculous things that sound good to appear clever. In actuality it's senseless rubbish
DW starts to sound more and more like CNN with headlines like this.
CNN, DW, BBC are all run by the same stooges'.
Trump is not asking Europe to pay the US for their defense. Trump is asking Europe to spend the money they agreed to on their own defense.
False pretense!!!!
For the US, defending means buying a weapon from them, so you have to pay for it
thats simply false. There never have been an agreement like this. please educate yourself on the matter before spreading falsehoods.
@@pade1365 if you want free things go join Cuba
Be careful what you wish for. Some NATO countries have reached the 2% threshold and others have raised the payment under a plans that will get them to the threshold.
At this juncture the US has bases sprinkled all over Europe. Before I get the in defense of Europe, WWII has been over for decades now. Let's not pretend that these bases aren't strategic for its interests in the Middle East. And those bases have been there without proper compensation as well. I can just imagine the American head explosions if say German or France for example, plopped bases across several states. The anger over a foreign country coming into the US and doing so without proper compensation would be through the roof.
And let's not forget that since WWII, the only NATO nation that has called for support in their skirmishes and wars has been the USA. The US relies on the EU for those bases. Ukraine, you say? The French were negotiating a peace that would have gone through if the US didn't step in a refuse the negotiations. This war has dragged on needlessly because of US intervention that wasn't asked for by the way and In its hubris, it has hurt more than helped and now has the gall to walk away from the mess it made as if they weren't responsible.
I have to thank Trump. If it wasn't for his threats, then the EU would not have started building their military up. And Germany was finally given the green light just a few years ago to rebuild their army. Something they weren't allowed to do after WWII. Rome isn't built in a day, but the day will come.
And I believe when that day comes, the US will not be better for it. I hope the EU flexes its muscles then and does what the US would do in the same circumstances and kick the US bases off their turf. The US needs the EU as much as the EU needs the US. The US is quick to forget that as well.
Europe has been buying military services, equipment, aircraft, surveillance, missile systems, and many others from the US since the end of WW2. Now, it's about giving even more. Perhaps the EU could finally revive the European military industry or even buy military material from South Korea, China, and even Russia? That would give a serious dent in their budget.
or even to produce in different European countries. Why not invest in Europe and also benefit economically from it. We have the money and the know-how
Well perhaps Germany could spend less money with Putin and more with its own military? Problem solved?
Germany is milking Russia of cheap petrol. So it is Russian who was helping Germany, not the opposite 😅
Hey here's a crazy idea! Just spend more on defense, 2% isn't even that hard.
crazy huh? for countries with good defense companies too...hard to understand
The USA at that time was the Guarantor without referring to internal problems with the border (for years in the future) or anything else...
After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine received the world's third-largest stockpile of nuclear weapons after the United States and Russia. Kyiv inherited 176 intercontinental ballistic missiles that carried 1,272 nuclear warheads. In total, there were 2,500 units of tactical nuclear weapons on the territory of Ukraine. If Ukraine were a nuclear state, everyone would talk to us differently, negotiate differently. Even if we go for this, we would have to go along a completely different path to independence!
As long as Putin runs Russia the West needs NATO. EU members of NATO need to increase military spending
Did we not need Nato before that?
actually what it needs is for the EU to become a military alliance too and be able to defend itself without help from across the oceasn
Putinphobia is running wild like Trumphobia
@@sammiemakki9339 se ofendió el Androide Ruso?.
@@urbansenicar81 After the fall of the Soviet Union support for NATO faded as Russia did not seem as much of a threat
Until they invaded Ukraine
Putin actually saved NATO from fading into insignificance, by proving that Russia was still a threat to global stability and Europe
As an American I am FIRMLY in support of NATO. But to my European allies I ask; We pay more than required by NATO, Why don’t most countries in NATO pay their minimum 2% as required in the NATO agreement? And why is it America’s responsibility to defend your back yard and pay for what most of Europe isn’t willing to?
2% is an agreement, not a requirement. And they are on their way to pay it and have been since 2014. Europe military spending is only second to the US in the world. We helped you after 9/11. You can do whatever you want, but a bigger war in Europe will affect the average American, so it should be in your interest to care.
Speaking as a Canadian, so not a European and not American, when it comes to the calculation of percentage of GDP spent on military/defense each country calculates their “defense” spending differently. For example, in the United States, many research institutions are under the defence umbrella, as well as provision of healthcare for military dependants. In Canada research institutions are not in the defence department, nor under the umbrella of defence spending, even if those research institutions are conducting research for defence purposes (sometimes there is transfers of funds from the defence department to these institutions for specific projects). Healthcare is not part of the defence budget, so there is a big difference in funds.
Do these differences in definitions/calculations make a huge difference? Maybe not enough to make up the full gap in percentage of GDP, but it does beg the question of why are we so focussed on the specific percentage and why are we not paying more attention to what each country is bringing to the fight?
Another thing to consider is that, although NATO was created to defend Europe from the USSR, it has evolved to be protection from any threat to the member states. In the 1990s a lot of countries cashed in on the “peace dividend” and cut back on military spending after the fall of the USSR. Despite these cut, in 2001 when the United States was attacked on September 11 and article 5 was invoked the NATO alliance members stepped up and came to United States defense, and went into Afghanistan for 20 years. Over 1200 NATO soldiers died in Afghanistan defending the United States. The European members of NATO defended the United States in Afghanistan, because it was their responsibility as partners in the alliance. Why would America not do the same when the countries are threatened ON THEIR OWN SOIL?
@@carlyar5281 You're correct, but it's actually worse than the % GDP measures would indicate, as spend based measures are too easy to game. The best measure is military capability, and from this perspective, the EU is even weaker. Over the past 15 years, Canada is has become as bad as the worst EU states (I am Canadian born and raised). Trump aside, the status quo must change. The US is simply not large enough to defend the entire democratic world from emergent autocracies on its own. Ultimately, many countries are going to have to dial back their social spending to maintain a more useful and robust military. Many, like Japan, Australia, and Poland already are.
@@joakimhausswolff9728 Where did I imply I’m not interested or care??
So why should the entire Europe depend on the US for its protection while failing to meet its financial obligations?
Better get your act together Europe - maybe Trump is doing you a favour by scaring you 😏
🇪🇺 EUROPE, WAKE UP !!! 🇪🇺
Shshsh-sh-shshsh...dont scream for Pete sake!
@@alesh4654 Hungover,, ? 😅
NATO may have been created to defend Europe from the USSR, it evolved to be protection from any threat to the member states.
In 2001 when the United States was attacked on September 11 and article 5 was invoked and the NATO alliance members stepped up and came to United States defence, and went into Afghanistan for 20 years. Over 1200 NATO soldiers died in Afghanistan defending the United States. The European members of NATO defended the United States in Afghanistan, because it was their responsibility as partners in the alliance. Why would America not do the same when the countries are threatened ON THEIR OWN SOIL?
there is a 2% defensive spending agreement I believe you can’t even get in NATO without spending 2% of your GDP on defense and many nato countries don’t spend that so trump is saying why should we spend billions to defend you when you aren’t willing to defend yourself.
Most of Columbia will honor the agreements in NATO but we also have *Losers* who have Big Mouths and talk Turkeyese.
@@damarcusowens5511 well we didnt need to really spend anything since were not warmongers like the US or Russia. We are not out seeking wars all across the globe unlike others.
8 AWACS and Canadian fighters
then why is this an issue? put up the white flag.@@jantjedoedelus8079
NO NATO, NO WAR! ( wise enough )
Send trump to jail plz slava Ukraini 💛💙
Iraq Libya Afghanistan wasn't no threat to Nato but still they got invaded bombed and destabilized.
Nato is not a defensive organisation
Then maybe Bush shouldn't have invoked Article 5 after 9/11 by your account
All except the Second Iraq War had good reasons, and the US stood almost alone in the Second Iraqi War because of it.
@@jonasrohdin8856Libya was not good reason at all.
@@joelbrooks3198 Gaddafis crimes against humanity
All NATO countries need to fulfill their obligations, but the criticism that there is no benefit for America to remain in NATO is misguided and wrong. For anyone trying to understand why, use WWII as the example. What benefit would America have gotten had the Axis forces won the war? The global economic power base would have sifted significantly in favor of a German/Japan empire. Compare that hypothetical situation with the economic benefits that America did enjoy over the last 7 decades.
There are no benefits for the United States being part of NATO any longer. NATO exist to defend your and that's it.
NATO was formed due to the Cold War... not the second world war... Mr genius
Ukraine and NATO have European support, so it shouldn’t need U.S. assistance and money
Why Putin look like he was about to bust out laughing on the thumbnail 🤣
What exactly is wrong with what Trump said ? If Europe wants American protection it should pay its bills
Pay your bills or no protection
What’s wrong is it means we basically have 100k “cheerleaders” in USA uniforms in our countries if Trump wins meaning 100k USA soldiers whose accommodation we pay for who are there just to cheer Russia on in case of war.
Having no USA protection is acceptable but if that's the case the USA soldiers have to leave and so do the USA nukes.
I hope the USA has the decency of pull out of countries it deems "unworthy of USA protection".
Be careful what you wish for. Some NATO countries have reached the 2% threshold and others have raised the payment under a plans that will get them to the threshold.
At this juncture the US has bases sprinkled all over Europe. Before I get the in defense of Europe, WWII has been over for decades now. Let's not pretend that these bases aren't strategic for its interests in the Middle East. And those bases have been there without proper compensation as well. I can just imagine the American head explosions if say Germany or France for example, plopped bases across several states. The anger over a foreign country coming into the US and doing so without proper compensation would be through the roof.
And let's not forget that since WWII, the only NATO nation that has called for support in their skirmishes and wars has been the USA. The US relies on the EU for those bases. Ukraine, you say? The French were negotiating a peace that would have gone through if the US didn't step in and refuse the negotiations. This war has dragged on needlessly because of US intervention that wasn't asked for by the way and In its hubris, it has hurt more than helped and now has the gall to walk away from the mess it made as if they weren't responsible.
I have to thank Trump. If it wasn't for his threats, then the EU would not have started building their military up. And Germany was finally given the green light just a few years ago to rebuild their army. Something they weren't allowed to do after WWII. Rome isn't built in a day, but the day will come.
And I believe when that day comes, the US will not be better for it. I hope the EU flexes its muscles then and does what the US would do in the same circumstances and kick the US bases off their turf. The US needs the EU as much as the EU needs the US. The US is quick to forget that as well. Unfortunately that lesson will only be learned the hard way.
@@ad_astra468 To my surprise, it seems the cheerleaders are within Europe as well. Notably even within Germany, who until not too long ago became very peaceful - but now no more.
You don't see the hypocrisy of trump telling other people to pay their bills when the dude doesn't pay his own, you people are so gullible that you blindly believe anything he says when most everything he say is projection of himself
How about reporting fact rather than bs
A leader cannot talk like that if he is a real leader. You can shake your partners in other ways if you are a thoughtful person and a leader.
Trump is effective , just not polite.
Pay your bills
Good talk from the EUROPEAN perspective as a Canadian, its good to know. Your guest speakers were all very astute,well informed, and concise..thankyou.
All of Europe and America scared of one country Russia
This is all about lucrative weapon contracts.
@@solconcordia4315 Point well taken. But how about Turkey and Greece? Both harbor grave differences and might even go to war.
@mrtopcat2
I disagree about the weapon contracts. It's really about NATO interoperability and compatibility. NATO without Columbia would be a greatly emaciated alliance. It's perfectly reasonable that NATO arms be compatible and interoperable with Columbian arms in case a NATO war breaks out.
Whatever arms NATO members buy, they need to be interoperable with Columbian arms or made to be compatible with them so there has to be compatibility validation tests, probably performed in Columbia because we have the arms-testing reservations or proving grounds to be shot up or operated upon in relative obscurity from the view of potential enemies.
It's highly unlikely that Columbia can buy and use other countries' weapon systems in great quantities so that Columbian arms need to be validation-tested with them instead because of the sheer varieties and quantities of arms Columbia needs and in an emergency to be produced.
Columbia does buy weapon subsystems to use in our own weapon systems and niche weapon systems from our allies.
@mrtopcat2
This is our motto: "E PLURIBUS UNUM" (Out of many, One.)
We are mongrel, to begin with, so it's not a big deal that we incorporate other countries' semiconductors, niche subsystems, etc. in our own weapon systems.
I don't understand how DW keeps making this type of program about Europe defense without inviting the 2 countries with a functional army: UK & FR. Hearing point of view of Germany ( against any wars) or Baltics ( too tiny to count) alone, is pointless. In this kind of debate, you should have (Poland) East , North (Sweden), Neutral (Germany), 1st army on the continent (France), 2d army in Europe Uk & South (Italy) points of view to help us better understand where are the issues!!
Absolutely! We have to start thinking and acting more European. The time when our small nations were the big sharks in the world is over.
But someone would have to explain that to the British😂
Yes, if the NATO allies want US protection, they do have to pay.
When did the US form an allegiance with Russia?? Wait!! When did that happen, overnight?
Imagine that, you don't pay your bills and yet. You still expect to be protected and taken care of. When it's pointed out that you aren't paying your bills. Suddenly it's treasonous to say you're delinquent.
Are you talking about Trump?
@conaccento not just him. American presidents have been quietly saying this. Trump just said it.more loudly.
The US needs a strong Europe. 💪 But Europe has to want to be strong and actually do more than talk tough. It needs to strive to be an equal partner which it currently is not.
@@FrontLinePub You're partly right, except that this equality is a tricky story. Europe needs to make efforts and has started to make them. Democracy and collaboration should be based not on equality because we are different, but on competition and responsibility.
@@FrontLinePub Equality is a dream and I'm sure it wouldn't suit the US. Cooperation, competition and dialogue can be a healthier way.
There should be more discussion and self-examination on why some NATO countries still not meeting 2% commitments. Trump was wrong does not make these EU NATO countries right. EU NATO countries should take partial responsibility for Russia’s aggression.
Especially, since some years ago, Russia wanted to be a peaceful part of the WEST and friends with NATO and even join, but Russia was denied?
The difference between the US and Russia is that Russian troops and bases peacefully left central Europe in 1990..... would you like me to continue???
@@clavichord That's funny. The Russians left because they couldn't afford financially to stay and the people they had been oppressing hated them.
Yes, this was a missed opportunity that ended when Putin became President.@@mrtopcat2
@@clavichord Totally irrelevant. Before WWI and before WWII, German was peaceful too. Same was Japan before invading China.
In an interview with Russian state television, Putin said that he is ready to cooperate with whoever becomes the president of the United States."
- Regarding the negotiations between Moscow and Kiev, which were held in Istanbul, Turkey in 2022, he stated that the Western countries failed these negotiations because they hoped that Russia would lose the war!
What I would like to know is whether Texas, California, New York, etc. achieve their 2%. US just makes it, but so does the EU (thanks to Poland). so what does trump have to complain about????
Some years ago, when Russia wanted to be a peaceful part of the west and friends with NATO and even join, WHY was Russia denied?
Because they are really Soviets and they can’t be trusted.
Because everyone knew it was a lie and that Russia just wanted in the club for the veto power.
It didn't stay peaceful for long, did it? One of Putin's very first acts was to start a conflict again with Chechnya by faking bombings. Doubt NATO wanted to be drawn in to Russian fights.
Because they are not trustworthy!
Is EU and US trustworthy? 😂😂😂
Europe - a continent of 600m, America a continent of 350m - America funds European security. I can fully understand why the Americans are unhappy with that arrangement. As a Brit I can honestly say its embarrassing. Time for the UK and the EU to create a European army that is equal in size and allied to the US.
Mister Trump think's that life is a joke,soo stupide of him,Europe should not be too reliant on the usa pertaining every thing.
No free lunch! America is back! Don’t be scare! You are riding the free horse for too long!
Europe needs to wake up and pay up !
Pay up to who?
I don't see how Trumps stance is unreasonable. It's only logical that a country should pay for NATOs protection, it's baffling my mind how not every nato member pays their fair share, especially in times like these.
Thank you!
I dont believe there is a single American who would truly want an allie to defend itself without help. Any other talking point alluding to that fact just seems like conjecture to me as a US citizen.
Erm, Australia has called on America twice since WWII and both times it’s been given the cold shoulder, and that’s America’s most reliable ally since 1917.
US can always take care of itself easily the trouble is the free loaders like Germany who wanted to buy Gas from Russia and seek protection form USA !! This is the main conflict in Europe
It'd not citizens its your pro Trump Republicans.
Taking one look at the Russian army. I don't think Europe has too much to worry about.
In the fearlessness of attacks
We saved the Russian flag
And my home and our songs.
As an American, I’m going broke paying for your defense. Carry your weight. I’ll be voting for trump!!!
How are you going broke again?
Contrary to suggestions on this page, Europe is outpacing the United States in aid to Ukraine. The Kiel Institute, which closely tracks contributions, estimates total European commitments from member states and institutions as of July 2023 to be over $145 billion, nearly double the United States’ total bilateral commitment of almost $77 billion. This does not take into account any recent announcements, such as those made in the run-up to the October 11 Ukraine Defense Contact Group meeting, with Germany just announcing a new aid package worth $1.1 billion.
In discussing total commitments, it is important to understand that aid to Ukraine takes various forms: military, financial, and humanitarian. While the United States has committed substantially more military aid than any other single country ($46.6 billion as of July 2023), the EU and its members together have nearly matched this level of commitment ($44.6 billion) through bilateral contributions and the European Peace Facility.
Wow so it takes 27 countries(who don't pay their dues to nato btw) to match just the US(the only nation to consistently have paid its dues to nato)
@@hunterjohnson6849you compare yourself with us as it suits you.
No matter what it is: universal healthcare, your size, your wealth, public transport or Ukraine. sometimes it's the USA vs. a small EU country, sometimes the USA vs. an entire continent
Excuses, excuses, excuses
Trump is a fan of NATO and is just not a fan of America paying for the defence of Europe especially when the defence budget of many of these European countries is dismal. So what he is asking for is fair if you want defence support you are going to have to contribute especially if you are riding for free. Most of the World has let their defences down while these Axis powers have been doubling down for many years on building sizeable militaries.
@@user-fu6kp5wf1m Either way if he pulls out if all of Europe basically can't band together and defend against Russia there is something wrong. Smaller Germany by itself just about took Russia along with the rest of Europe. No country should rely on an other for defence. America in both world wars was reluctant to enter and only did at the very end of the war when they almost had no other alternative.
@@user-fu6kp5wf1m As far as presidents go and leaders around the world, I would say Trump is mouthy almost comical, but gets the job done and he cuts through a lot of the BS with climate zero policy - he goes against the UN which is good- which many others follow like lapdogs. I think the UN are at the centre of many of the issues - they have a tremendous amount of power through all their organisations. They are at the centre of the immigration problem Europe now faces. I think diplomacy wise he might be able to deal with the dictators a bit better - but to be fair this has been on the cards for some time, why else do you think they have a large part of their GDP devoted to Military. Dictators are bullies looking for weakness and Europe looks like an easy target. Ukraine not an easy target as long as it gets support.
60 Billion? HAVE U SEEN AMERICA. It's border is wide open. How about NATO pay?
Sick of listening to bad English
Is Ukraine part of NATO is it??
Maybe Germany could bring back it's military machine to WW2 levels of several million troops to take control of EU defending it from Russia.
Germany took over Europe with the stroke of the pen. The eu is basically the reich under a softball name.
It is askin Europe to spend the money they agreed to in written form. Modern Europe just has a problem sticking to what was agreed upon.
Europe didn't agree anything. Whatever the Washington DC puppet leaders have said is no reflection on the wishes of the people of Europe
It's tine for NATO to go away......
When it comes to Ukraine, suddenly money's no limit but for your own security, you say 'we have no money?
All of the Russian bots are here in full force today
Hopefully they might learn something. We can only hope.
And the Palestinian bots too... from Gaza
@clavichord highly unlikely that anyone is spending their day there worrying about the US problems when their whole place has been blown to a pile of rubble
23:27 "It was a dream already in the Soviet Union for the Russians to split Europe and the US." That says it all - it means we should stick together.
Pay? You mean contribute to funds they promised. When 60 % NATO isn't helping with defense, how do expect the the 40% to pay for everything? Why don't you just pay the 2%. The government just needs to give 2 euros for 100 euros to make the system work. That the price of 1 coke.
This kind of continued support from Europe and the United States to Ukraine will not help Ukraine regain its occupied areas, but it will only consume Russia's national power. From Ukraine's point of view, I really don't see what benefits can come from continuing the war?
Trump is hilarious 😅
NATO countries should contribute 2% of its GDP. Why USA should defend you if you do don’t want to defend yourself?❤❤
There's nothing wrong with that. Europe must and should invest more in self-defense!
But we should also start building our own arms industry, why not use it to boost our own economy?
First off considering USA's public money and blood for granted is unfair when USA has a lot of domestic problems. Secondly it's a dark reality but so true that developing your human resource so rich that you no longer keep the leverage of dumb guys to fight for the politicians is a drawback of the developed world.
Herr Lange speaks the truth 👏👏👏
trump is the best investment Putin has ever made.
As a guy born in EU, i would say Trump is totally right. We made this promiss. So stick with the plan and contract.
I'm with you. But the way he did it only empowers Putin rather than strengthen the alliance. Trump destroys more than he mends.
Yes, they need to pay what they agreed to. WHY has this been spun into something it isnt !!
NO. He said they need to pay what they agreed to pay. Get your facts together.
Trump is right - Europe should have to keep it's 2% military budget part of the deal. Obviously.
Many contries have
@@debater452 Trump wasn't talking about those countries
NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg says 18 countries will get there this year. The ones bordering Russia are nearly all at or over it already. Poland is at 4%,
@@mango2005 yeah, over the past year or two there's been a major increase thanks to the Ukraine war
How does “sounding like an extortionist” differ from being an extortionist? Extortion is done by communication, whether verbal or written. Hollywood should have never made a mob movie so that Donnie wouldn’t know their corrupt ways.
Oh, he woulda known them. Those ways come naturally to him.
The new axis of evil.
Why don't they just increase their spending? Then it's a non-issue.
Great discussion! Nico made reference to Putin's kgb background... Yes, it is true. He plays his cards very close to his chest. I'm a retired teacher and I remember well, when he moved from his kgb portfolios into his political sphere of influence. I told my students to watch for him in the news. I just may have called him a few names,,,,,, in fun, of course.. ;) ;).
Thinking sad of children you were teaching. Of course, drunk Yeltzin is who you prefer to see as the president of a great country
Pooped-in… is a name that comes to my mind. Especially since I’m the one who came up with it! 😄😁
When is Europe ready to spend 1 trillion a year in defence? We can speak about Europe independence but as long as Europe don’t spend enough it’s just words
Do you think, EUROPE can make sure there security without US ?
If YES!! than HOW ?
You accepted the money and showed up. you want to deal with what trump says everyday if you get paid
Donald Trump is speaking to the American electorate. But I do believe he believes the Europeans should do more in Europe and America should do less. As for Putin I hope the former President does not over estimate his Diplomacy skills and underestimate the greed and length that Putin is willing to go to achieve his goals And what this may mean for the long-term interests of the United States of America.
Trump is not interested in the USA. He is only interested in his own profit.
He called Europe delinquent 😂😂😂, fools
NATO is a big zero without US army 😂 Trump is right.
To all those worried here in Europe: I’m an American expat who leans right. I understand the republicans, but don’t agree with them.
When it comes to Trump: the key is to take him seriously, but not literally. He won’t abandon NATO
I am worried for Ukraine. We need to send support NOW
No one understands why he speak this way. 17 countries meet the 2% need before he opened his mouth and literally every country aims to do this after realzing Russia could take Ukraine. If Trump encourage Russia to invade its allies. It makes USA the enemy of Europe
I'm not a fan of Trump, but why is he criticized for saying that every country should pay their share if they want the benefits?
Because it is a two way street. The US is as culpable as the EU.
Because he dosen't pay his own, he's doing everything he can to help Russia at this point but all of of the gullible people that call everyone else sheep are the ones falling for anything he says
@@dsmith8859 By saying that he doesn't pay his own, do you mean the US? If that is the case why isn't it talked about?
They way he puts the problem is the issue ...
@dsmith8859 please can you give me an example of how he is helping Russia. Thank you.
Maybe in the future D. Trump will also run as a Russian president.
He just make a joke comments about how he thinks..
Economic investigator Frank G Melbourne Australia is following this very informative content cheers Frank 😊
all Trump is trying to say is that they need to be more militarily Self Sufficient than they currently are
Germany the " red carpet" For USA.
The German guy is stiff like a Apple Avatae 😂😂😂
How is Trump against NATO? if Trump makes them spend more, doesn't that strengthen NATO?
Guatemala should join NATO.