Approaching the Scene 028: Advanced Panoramas Finding the "Nodal Point"
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- Опубликовано: 29 июл 2024
- This video will help you find the 'no parallax point' (often mistakenly called the nodal point) to seamlessly capture advanced panoramas. Panoramic capture has been a passion of mine since the days of film and I'm happy to share some of the techniques I've learned over the years. This video is one lesson from my Advanced Panorama Video Training Course. You can learn more about that course as well as the gear I use to capture panoramas at the link below.
My Advanced Pano Course: www.hudsonhenry.com/pano
My Core Photography Course: www.hudsonhenry.com/ats
Join me in a workshop this year: shop.hudsonhenry.com/collecti...
Submit a Question: questions@hudsonhenry.com
Links to all my gear: www.hudsonhenry.com/atslinks 
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If I had come across a sensible tutorial such as yours a few years ago when I was learning how to shoot panoramas I would have found what I was looking for. I got the basic principle and arrived at essentially the method you demonstrate. One discovery I eventually made was that trial and error is unnecessary. Finding the no parallax point can be completed in two steps: 1) start with the near and far points aligned in the exact center of the field of view, 2) rotate until the near and far points are near the edge of the field of view, then adjust the slide position until the two points come into alignment. Done. Rotate through the full field of view in the opposite direction to verify. I too keep notes on results for all lenses (and all marked focus positions of zooms) in a notepad document on my phone. BTW, the setting of your parking garage is very familiar :-).
Hudson I'm so grateful for all your advice over the years of following your channel. After years of fighting with my existing little Gitzo travel tripod, I have finally ordered the Leofoto LS-324CL and Kirk Bridge for my MVH500 fluid head and Leofoto LB-75 levelling base, which just don't pair nicely with the little Gitzo. Can't wait to try these out with simple and complex panoramas alike, which after watching your videos, I finally know how to calibrate. Thank you!
Very cool, Hudson. Thanks!!
Great video and information! Loved it. Thank you for the time and info.
Best description of the issue and how to adjust the gear I’ve seen online - thanks!
I love your laid back, clear and knowledgeable delivery. Don't understand why there are so few likes and why there are any dislikes at all? I greatly appreciate you taking the time to provide this excellent content.
I appreciate that!
Great tutorial! I didn’t realize what it takes to make a proper panorama. Looks like I need to get a few more gadgets. In the past I’ve only used the Syrp Genie Mini, now I can add a nodal slide and hopefully improve my panos. Thank you!
You're so welcome Terry. It really depends on how simple or complex your pano composition is whether you need this level of calibration. I cover that in detail in my advanced pano video course (linked in description)
Really great video, man! Always your contents are produced and explained so well :) Cheers!!!
Thanks Andrea!
good info - thx!
Great info...thanks!
As to the viewer question re ambient light in calibration. I have been thinking to experiment with levels to the point I can leave Lightroom, in the Print module's Print Job segment's Print Adjustment option's "Brightness" slider, set at 0. Ambient may become too bright, however. Will see.
Do you use an L-plate to position your camera vertically on the nodal rail? I notice most L-plates don't have markings for the center point. Would you make your own mark for consistency or pay extra bucks for one that is marked? Would you buy a custom plate for your camera for this purpose?
Hi, thx a lot for that good explanation, how to find the "no paralex" point.
for buying a nodal slide i am thinking if its true, that the "no paralex" point is always between the front and the back element of the lens?
Or is it possible that it is more in front of the lens?
If my thoughts are right you can proof easily if the slide is long enough if the front element is behind the rotation point of the tripod?
Regards
Stefan
The "no parallax point" (NPP) with a 24-70 f2.8 on my D850 is very short and changes with the different focal lengths. Now using a Z7 with a 24-70s and 14-30S, the NPP doesn't seem to change with focal length changes. Is that due to the lens construction and its closeness to sensor? Have you done a NPP test with your new Z7/6 lenses?
great video！Do you have video for multi row panorama？
I have a full video course on advanced panoramic capture: www.hudsonhenry.com/pano
finally, I know how it works, thank you. Perfect. Again, THANK YOU.
You bet my friend
Thx Henry. Have you tried to stitch pano from 1:1 Aspect ratio. I was thinking that you dont have to shoot vertical. I dont Know if the pano Will get tall enough.. Just a though, i Hope youll answer the question. Thx
If you sweep the sensor across the scene vertically, you maximize quality by sweeping more pixels through the scene. I only orient the camera horizoltally if I'm doing a vertical panorama for the same reason. First name is Hudson, but no big deal at all.
Is there a follow up on this video for how to angle the nodal point up and down, etc? I looked at the next few but didn't see it.
There's a whole panorama course in the links if you look at the full description. :)
Have fun in Baja!
It's been epic so far. Thanks!
What was that net thing on your tripod.
It's called a stone bag and one you have one, you can't do without it. :) I have links to all my gear at www.hudsonhenry.com/atslinks
Hi, just a quick question. Could you tell me why you use a nodal slider and panning clamp, surely you could achieve the same effect using your fluid head?
This is an older video. I've worked with Jeff kirk to create a new top for the manfrotto 500ah that both saves weight and puts a rotating arca clamp directly over the axis of rotation. Now I just use a kirk nodal rail in that to balance and do panos, with a long lens, your loose the foot. I'm teaching a Moab workshop now on my phone, but if it look through my videos of the past few months, I demo it. :)
I have a Sony 70-200 f4 with internal zoom do you still have to set every focal point
When I do my 70-200, I basically do 70, 105 and 200. Some lenses are designed so it doesn't change, others each focal length is different.
Hi Hudson, would i still need a panning clamp if i have already a 3-way head?
Not if your head pans above a leveling point. If you have to use the legs to get the panning level, then get a panning clamp for sure. I like one even on my leveled fluid head just because it's center of panning rotation is tough to ascertain relative to the arca clamp position atop the sliding manfrotto plate.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Thank you so much! I've never thought I would get an interest for landscape photography, until I watched your videos.
Why is it that you want to have a slider with the clamp that can rotate 90 degrees ?
What do use the perpendicular postion for ?
I personally don't rotate the clamp very often. I'd just pull the slider to use the arca foot on a long lens. I do want the clamp to slide on the LRP-3 though and had a hand in creating it. A mirrorless body with a small wide angle on a traditional nodal rail will have a lot of that nodal rail in the frame. A short nodal rail however is insufficient for a longer lens like a 70-200. This rail works for everything.
does that nodal setting changes on a zoom lens or its the same at any focal length on the same lens?
It totally depends on the lens construction. On most of the new S mount nikon lenses it barely changes. Some of my old F lenses it dramatically varies. My advice is to measure it at each marked focal length.
If you find the non paralax point for a horizontal pan will that then work for a vertical pan as well??
The no parallax point is a fore-aft measurement. Vertical or horizontal orientation has no effect. Sweep the widest path possible. Vertical for standard panorama composition & horizontal for vertical panos. If you search my channel for panorama you'll find more recent videos. :)
Thank you for this video. I have put together the same basic setup with the tripod, fluid head and nodal slider. I just lack the panning clamp. I've made only 1 panoramic for a test so far, and that turned out pretty good with no stitch lines visible. How important/necessary is it to have a panning clamp graduated in degrees? I just estimated the amount of rotation for overlap when I took the shots, I used the panning function of the fluid head.
You can calibrate for the fluid head for your way of doing single row panoramas. It gets complicated to do multi row since the center of rotation under the fluid head is complicated to ascertain. For single row, the fluid head will let you pan levelunder the the nodal point easily wirh no additional equipment though. If you don't have close objects in the scene it matters a lot less. My advanced pano video course (linked in the description) explains a lot of this in more detail.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto, Thank you. I was wondering whether or not it would be good for multi row panoramas. I haven't tried make one of those yet as I was concerned about the movement of the parallax point when tilting the camera up or down with fluid head as it shifts the camera forward slightly when you tilt down and backward slightly when it's tilted up.
@@JoeHTX It's true. It also matters if the view sweeps down below you and you have to tilt down. That's where the bigger rig I showcase in the course comes in.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Does the Core Course contain the same the Advanced Pano information too? I'm very new to photography and need help on a lot of things.
@@JoeHTX The Core Course is the spot to start. It doesn't have the pano course stuff, but the Pano course assumes you've got the lessons from the Core course down. If you absorb the Core course, then you are ready for any of my other courses. Hit me up here or via email if you have any questions at all. :-)
Nice video again, HH. Clever trick with the lightstand with red tape and the background. I would do it with two lightstands behind each other, probably indoors. That said, the no-parallax point might actually slightly shift when you change focus. That is on my to-do list now. BTW, did you ever try focus stacking in a panorama, e.g. witga 50 or 85?
That works for wide angles, but your have to move them very far apart for longer lenses. Thats why distant vertical lines are so helpful. They cover all focal lengths. :) yes, I've done a bit of focus blending in the past
I'm experimenting with focus stacking panos this year too.
Hi, Hudson just a heads up I ordered a sunwayfoto rail from B&H from your link and I didn't check (my bad) but the link sends you a single rail not a double. I had the wrong one sent to me and will have to order another one that's a double. You may want to update the link. Still luvin the content - cheers.
Mark, that base rail should be a single. It clamps centrally or left of center in your base panning clamp and then the vertical rail clamps to it over to the right side on the same groove. They don't need to stack in any way, so a single is far more efficient and lighter weight. That's how I roll with the system at least. My original RRS system was like that too. No need for a double.
The biggest issue I have with these "nodal slides" is the way the working length is inscribed on the rail. Some start with 0 at the camera end, other start with 0 at the far end. The RRS slide has both (opposite sides of the rail). The Kirk starts with 1... go figure. This makes it extremely difficult to use one set of positions on one rail, to the appropriate positions on another rail. My RRS rail has the camera clamp fixed at one end, so not repositionable. Ideally, I think a nodal rail would have a true 0 about 1-2 cm from the camera end so you could position the 'film plane' marker exactly at 0 on the rail, then record the exact position of the nodal point at the lens end. This should result in measurements that are correct for a given lens on any compatible camera body. Just a thought ...
I don't think you'll ever see the companies cooperate to set the designs up exactly the same. There's a certain amount of shift from any brand one to another. I used to use RRS, before some bad experiences that pushed me away and even one rail to another was quite different.
That said, I have brought this issue up to Kirk and recommended it change in any subsequent versions. If you check out my document with the Nikon measurements, I note that the scale starts at 1. As a science major it bugs me too. ;-) That said, there isn't a better design out there. I had a hand in its creation, but not the scale.
👍👍
Wow man, thank you so, so much, that was perfect! I'm new to Panorama photography and needed to learn this important step in the process. Your video was the first one I chose from those suggested and I'm glad I called by! Thank you! PS - I have a question, why would you do panoramas with different lenses, why not just use a fisheye lens which would be fast and not require too many photos be taken? I can think of one reason, but I'd like to hear from the expert :)
A: Because fisheye lens images are curves and for a 2D panorama is not OK. Fisheye lens are use ONLY for 360x180 panos
As a quick review, at 7.40 you will see the movement of your object your using/ focusing on in relation to backround and at 8.15 you will see less motion in relation to backround.. Thats when you have found the no parralax point. This will give you a better understanding/difference of finding the no parralax point. Thanks Hudson
Do you believe that Adobe Software can now create panoramic pictures without bothering us with nodal points?
Not if you have close subjects in the frame. It's fine if everything is at or close to infinity, but if you have close subjects and aren't over the entrance pupil (nodal is really not the right term) then parallax will cause problems no software can fix.
You also really need extra tools to do them angled up or down or for multi-row to avoid the odd rainbow shaped arc movement.
This is why cell phones don't struggle with panoramas. They use a tiny sensor with ultrawide short focal length lenses (like 6mm). Infinity is about 6 inches from that short a lens so parallax is never much of an issue.
Hudson Henry Photography Thank You for answer
It’s actually cooler if you dub it the parallax point
If the term “nodal point” is wrong but say it doesn’t even matter then why even bring it up or put it in your title?
because most of the photographers that want to learn about panos still use and search for the wrong term. :-)
@@HudsonHenryPhoto see, why even reply to a random person on the internet if it doesn't matter. Stop lying to yourself Henry
Haters gonna hate.. lol.
@@John-cp6qp And dicks gonna come...lol