MPJ: (Ep.143) Photos With Front Tilt
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2017
- In this week's video, I continue the theme of presenting several photos, and talking about what they have in common. The topic this week is Photos with Front Tilt. This was a bit difficult since the vast majority of my photos use some degree of front tilt, but I found 3 photos in particular that help to demonstrate.
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Thanks. Been trying to get the hang of my 2 LF cameras.
One of the saddest things is that most people who see these images (in calendars/adverts etc) never understand just how technical as well as aesthetic pleasing they are, and how difficult it can be to capture them. For them, a phone camera is 'just as good'. Rather sad. On a cheerier note, excellent work and gorgeous images. Thanks, from one who does understand.
Maybe someday, smartphone cameras would be able to do light field photography, then they can synthesize such Scheimpflug images.
Ben, good explanation, thanks.
Love this series of videos Ben. Really great! Especially for somebody who knows nothing about large format photography. 👍
Truly amazing images! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Super video....extremely helpful. Love the last image. Many thanks for sharing.
So glad it was helpful. Thanks for watching Ash!
So nice photo, love them👍👍👍👍
Thanks Hugh!
Thank you. Very helpful video.
Thanks Franz! So glad you enjoyed it!
Really appreciate the information about front tilt and how to use it, it will probably come in handy once I start working with 4x5! The cat scenes at the end keep getting better with each video as well haha.
Thanks Nick!
I like this. Also, have a look at Lewis von John (X-T2, A7Riii, GFX, 4x5, etc.)
Great tutorial Ben. I have a Canon 24 TSE that I use with some frequency. You have given me some more things to think about when I am adjusting the tilt knob. The last photo is gorgeous! Best, Bob
Thanks Bob!
Awesome video, very informative. Its getting tough for me not to spring for large format after shooting medium format for so many years. :) Thanks for all you do Ben and keep up the great work!
Do it! ;-)
Thanks Ben you have inspired me to make use of my Mirex tilt/shift adapter on my A7r , I’ve never really got to grips with the principle and thought it is too complicated, but actually it’s not really , your explanation has made it sound relatively simple . I am going to look for subjects to experiment on.
It is definitely a rather simple concept once you get the hang of it. You'll certainly need to magnify your live view for precise placement of the focus plane, but it's a pretty cool thing to know how to do.
Great examples. Was able to send this to a friend so they could learn. That said, would really love to see a step by step guide on movements. Been considering making one for a while but still have yet to
Hi Dave! That is something I may very well create at some point, though to be honest, I don't use a heck of a lot of movements for landscapes. I think that's something where an architectural photographer would have a much larger knowledge base. I just know enough to get the job done.
Ah I love geeking out over photography. Really cool to learn about large format in a day and age where the majority talk about megapixels and flip out screens :)
It's addictive! :-)
love you dude! you get life
Thanks...gives me a better understanding of camera movements. I just began shooting 6x17 format with a Shen Hao 617 and while its not considered "large format", the basic concepts are the same. Thanks again for a very informative video (dittos for the rear tilt video as well).
I'm glad it was helpful Mike!
Great examples, thank you Ben!
A very interesting vlog Ben, particularly as I use a Canon TS lens a lot in my photography. I was really surprised that large format cameras have such shallow DoF, it’s something that must make life difficult as a landscape artist.
You used 3 gorgeous images, the 1st and 3rd are outstanding, and explained your work flow clearly, I found it fascinating.
I hope you’re keeping well and enjoying autumn/fall.
Take care mate. 🍀👌
Thanks as always Andy. When it comes to the shallow DOF of 8x10, imagine shooting a multi-row pano of a nearby subject with a 300mm lens on a FF camera. Put all those photos together, and that's what shooting LF is like. With most scenes, even stopping all the way down doesn't yield adequate focus -- not to mention the diffraction related issues if you were to do that. Since I can't really focus stack, I just have to try and make the best decisions to get the most important parts of the subject in focus. In some ways, that is very liberating.
Ben, this just makes me more impressed at your skills with the large format kit! Me, I will continue to use my Canon TS lens ( I am surprised at how few landscape photographers actually use a tilt shift lens!) and enjoy using it and the results!👍😎.
Take care.🍀
my 150mm wide angle lens,... These large format cameras are insane
This is what makes me really want to buy a "tilt-shift" lens for my DSLR. There's something about the method, the workflow, that also really helps you think much more about your exact composition, resulting in much better photos quite often.
But does a tilt-shift lens work the same as the tilt on a large format camera? Since the light hits several lens groups in a tilt-shift lens before hitting the sensor, instead of moving 'freely' through the bellows of a large format camera.
With a DSLR, you would have the ability to shoot with a very sharp aperture, which is an added bonus. You could take a landscape photo at f/8 or f/11 with just a hair of tilt and get everything in focus. It would certainly slow you down a bit in a good way. It would be very tough to see where your plane of focus is with the viewfinder, but that's what live view is for.
It will work the exact same way, but the only difference is that it's harder to see exactly where your plane of focus is. Since the 8x10 camera has a much shallower DOF and I have a large ground glass I'm looking at, it's pretty easy to see where the plane of focus is. On a DSLR, you would need to use magnified live view to ensure that the lens has been tilted properly.
Thank you for another informative video and great tips. I have just bought my first large format camera, an Intrepid 4x5 so your videos are a real help as I am guessing this is going to be a huge learning curve. Having to wait 4 weeks, but give me time to watch more of your content so I won't be a bumbling fool when I actually get my hands on it.
I know you shoot mainly 8x10, but do you have any videos on lens choices for 4x5 and which film holders would work with an Intrepid? Cheers :)
There great thing about LF is that all the movements are pretty easy once you get the camera in your hand. It will all make sense, and you'll get the hang of it in no time. Your biggest learning curve will be learning how to use a light meter properly, and learning the differences between the different types of film, and which film stock is best for a given shot. If you already know that stuff from shooting medium format or 35mm, it should be a pretty easy transition. When it comes to film holders, I've worked with Toyo and Fidelity Elite holders. They were both just fine. I still prefer the Toyo holders. They are built very well.
Thank you for the reply and the advice, much appreciated :) will look at the Toyo holders, hopefully they are easily available here in the UK. Thanks again and look forward to your next video :)
Thanks for the info. Good vid. If you don't mind my asking what do you carry your camera in out to your subject ? An offroad stroller is what I hear most are using.
Hi! The camera and other gear is packed in a backpack designed for backpacking. These bags have the best harnesses, and properly distribute most of the weight to the hips.
@@BenHorne Have you tried offroad strollers? I think I would rather not be seen pushing one around given the douche bag factor.
@@Machster10 I never have. To me, that seems overly complex, and it wouldn't work for the vast majority of the places I visit. A good backpack allows you to cover pretty much any terrain.
Interesting vid. Where would you rate newer digital cameras with built in focus stacking compared to tilt lens for landscape photography? Thank you for any replies.
Hi Thomas! Focus stacking certainly works well, but also leads to some complications when it comes to moving subjects. There's a certain degree of satisfaction that comes with getting the photo right in camera at the moment of exposure. Also, being able to adjust the plane of focus only works for certain situations, and even then, there will still be parts of a photo that will be out of focus. It's that degree of imperfection that makes working with large format film quite attractive. Digital attempts to polish all of these imperfections, but in doing so, something is often lost in translation and the photo feels less real despite being technically polished.
No one mentions it much, but too much front tilt will also throw the sides (left/right) out of focus. Depends on lens coverage. Extreme front swings will throw top/bottom out of focus. Just something to watch for; or exploit if that's what you want. Search "selective focus" on RUclips.
That's really interesting, and makes perfect sense now that I think about it.
Hi Ben This is great and you have given a great explanation of what is involved. What I struggle with is how much tilt and what is the process you use to decide the angle of tilt to get the optimum sharpness through the image. I an just returning to large format photograph after more than a decade away. Any Tips ?
It's really a balancing act. If you use too much tilt, you will lose sharpness at the top of the frame, and if you don't use enough you might not be able to get your midground in focus because the plane of focus will skip over the top of it. Since the plane of focus opens into a wedge as you stop down, the wedge is smallest in the foreground of your shot. As a result, it's pretty important to make sure that the foreground is sharp on the ground glass. I then set the front tilt so the most important subjects near the top of the frame are in focus. Sometimes it will take a few go-arounds with re-focus and re-tilt, but you'll get it. You can then stop the lens down and look at the ground glass with a loupe to see if your midground sharpens up properly. If it doesn't, then you will need to make some different decisions. You will have to focus a bit further away and re-tilt. This means you might lose a bit of sharpness in the foreground. Otherwise you can tilt a bit more, but you might lose a bit of sharpness in the upper part of the composition. There are some scenes where you can't get everything in focus, and you have to make some decisions about what is most important. This will be the topic of one of my next videos.
Thank you so much for that. This is largely what I have been doing but I was not sure if there was a better way of doing it that maybe quicker or more precise. your reply was brilliant. I will look forward to your upcoming video. Thank you so much for your excellent films always very enjoyable and for me educational . Kindest regards Martin
Ben, I shoot with a DSLR with a 1.6 crop factor; but I still watch and enjoy your videos. Question: when you talk about your lens how do they compare in mm to what a typical DSLR uses. e.g. your 300mm compares to what?
If you divide a 8x10 lens focal length by about 6, it gets you in the ballpark of a full frame SLR. The 300mm lens is my normal lens, and is similar to using a 50mm lens on a full frame camera.
Thanks, that info will make your videos all the interesting to someone who doesn't shoot large format.
Maybe a comparison video of sorts would be good? :)
Hey Ben, first, I have been addicted to your channel for almost 2 years now. Funny thing is I have never shot large format film and probably, at least in the near future, will not have the opportunity to try it. Being a full time professional "digital" photographer making that mind shift seems overwhelming. That being said , your zen approach to the craft is mesmerizing. So, I shoot a lot with tilt shift lens on a full frame DSLR. Out of curiosity what would you say the differences are between DSLR/tilt shift and large format, specifically the movements. Is my tilt shift giving me the same results as you front tilt movement? Does the DSLR/TS combo even have an equivalent to your rear tilt? I hope this question came across clearly and again, your content is amazing. thanks!
Ben may have views, but I have been shooting 5x4 for over a year and also have two Nikon T/S lenses, so can comment. Movements on large format are easier to focus for because DSLR movements are so fine and viewfinder is so small/liveview more restricting. Front tilt on LF works pretty much the same as tilt on a tilt-shift, though LF has tilt and swing. The full effects of rear tilt on LF are probably not possible to achieve on DLSR since - as I understand it, though I'm still learning! - LF lenses can be racked out, or indeed tilted, beyond infinity focus, so the focal-plane tilt on LF can do more work for you than even having tilt and shift on the same front axis on a DSLR tilt-shift and tipping the camera backwards a bit - perspective correction and creative distortion are much easier to achieve on LF. Also important here is ability to use rear movements to keep the film plane exactly vertical even if the camera is pointed downwards into a scene, to maintain verticals. Multiple spirit levels means that the whole thing is simpler to visualize, even if compound movements take quite a lot of practice - in my experience - to master. If you have a camera with measurements for the movements, together with a geared head with measurements, again the whole thing is easier to set up precisely. Re. compound movements, you can use front swing and front tilt at the same time if you have a landscape scene with a prominent subject (e.g. group of trees) receding into the composition at an angle. Can't do that with a dslr where tilt only works on one plane. Obviously DSLR focusing works differently and you'd simply stop down or focus bracket to achieve the same thing, but nice to get it in the one frame, esp if you have filters / exposure balancing to figure out. Here's a fairly rudimentary example of what I'm talking about: shot previously on DSLR (Zeiss 21mm) I had to focus bracket and exposure bracket, which was tricky given movement in the trees. Shot in B&W on 5x4 in one shot. I also achieved a similar result with 24PC-E, but a little less flexibly - LF have me much more freedom of composition/lens choice: all my LF lenses, from ~21mm to ~120mm equivalent, are tilt-shifts!
flic.kr/p/Z5c2En
Thanks for watching Rob!! With your tilt shift lens, you have most of the same control as the front movements on a large format. The only difference is that the large format cameras are a bit more flexible. For example, I can use front tilt + front shift + front swing (tilting to the side). That being said, the most common thing I do is front tilt, possibly combined with a bit of rise or fall, and you have the same abilities with the tilt shift lens. Since large format has such a narrow DOF, it is much easier to see where the plane of focus is on a view camera. You would probably need to use magnified live view to confirm proper tilt since it's a bit harder to see. Rear tilt is something you don't really have access to. You might be able to shift the lens all the way downward and tip the camera backward along with some front tilt, but I don't know that it will yield quite the same result. In any case, it is much easier to adjust on a view camera. Just keep in mind that even though large format has all these cool movements, you have a wide range of tools with a digital SLR that aren't practical with LF. For example, focus stacking is a way to get a large DOF on a DSLR. Technically that could be done on a view camera, but it would be a royal pain to do because it would be so slow. Though a large format camera might seem a bit intimidating at first, what I've learned to appreciate over the years is how simple they really are. There's something very nice about that.
Very well said David!!
Cheers Ben. Great work with the technical videos: LF is still quite a challenge for me (that’s of course why I do it), esp in its mixture of, on the one hand, stark and at times terrifying simplicity (light, lens, box, sheet of film, exposure to calculate correctly) and, on the other, the complexities/puzzles offered up by the endless creativity of a full range of movements. I’m sure that newbies will find these videos very useful and informative.
One problem I currently have is that I now have so much gear (camera, 6(!) lenses, filters inc. colour correction for longer exposures and V50 - do you have any of these??, new tripod head) that I’m having trouble carrying it all. Perhaps I need (an even greater range of) bags to carry different combinations of gear around in - and perhaps there are times when I don’t really need to carry the Fujinon T 400 f/8 around with me! I guess an 8x10 setup with only 3 lenses could in some respect me more liberating, if only for B&W work (importing V50 in 5x4 from Japan is enough trouble for one lifetime, though I understand what you've said previously about it being the 'price of admission').
Btw, the Arca head is great. Just as I hoped, basically a Manfrotto 410 that is actually engineered to function properly!
brillance thanks for the info! lubbies
Beautiful images, but about the second image. Why didn't you chosen vertical shot? I would love to see littlebit more this cliff with reflected light.
That's a great question, and I have a very good answer for you. This is as high as I can show because the cliff ends. If I was even a hair higher with the composition, you would see blue sky poking through the trees on the left, and a big higher than that you would see the end of the cliff on the right. That is one of the challenges for this composition, but it does go to show that when you chop something off, it continues into the imagination. I shot a vertical here in years past and wasn't quite happy with the composition I had. When I returned this year, my goal was to try and find a horizontal composition.
Ben Horne Thank you for replay Ben. Then yes, horizontal is the way to go. Vertical with blue sky wouldn't work. Beautiful place. I hope I can visit the narrows one day.
Hi! Could you also do a video on back tilt?
I did one a little while back. Here ya go! ruclips.net/video/Pt-6w9B-Iss/видео.html
thanks :)
Large format is just lovely - too bad it costs nearly 10 dollars per frame to shoot color 4x5 here in Canada :/
It's definitely a very expensive pursuit! There is no getting around that unfortunately. At least not for color.
scheimpflug principle, be nice to mention so people can do more research if they want to
Oh the classics. And thanks for getting rid of the long intro.
An oldie but goodie. I should do some more videos like this at some point in the future. I certainly have even more photos to draw from now.
f45? o.o
Yup, most of the lenses go to f/64 or f/128, so f/45 is moderately stopped down, but not to an extreme.
@@BenHorne might as well going with pin hole lol yike
I wish you would look into the camera rather than at the top of the camera
Me too! Here's why I do it though. When you talk to the camera for a very long period of time, especially if you're trying to do a somewhat coherent video in one take, it is VERY difficult to just look at a camera lens. It is like you're trying to maintain a train of thought while staring into the dark charcoal eye of a great white shark. There's something about it that just kills the train of thought. I have a monitor positioned just over the top of the TV (the camera actually obscures most of it), and by looking at myself on the monitor, it is as though I am having a conversation with someone rather than staring into a lens. A good way around this would be to use a teleprompter type device so I could look at the image on the monitor but also look right at the lens, but they are kind of bulky and expensive. There might be some other creative way of handling it too, but staring at that lens sure is tough!
f freakin 45??! I know it full frame but still; that's absurd right? (sorry im drunk and enthusiastic)
would've cut the second one a bit on the left though.. but i love you confidence of staiying with the nega... lots of respect from a citystruck sadness
It’s not full frame it’s 8x10 large format film. Much much bigger than 35mm full frame
Some of my lenses go down to f/128, but I would never use them that high. F/45 on an 8x10 is like using about f/16 on a 35mm camera. It's about a stop away from the max aperture so I can avoid diffraction.
@@BenHorne Excellent video. may I just ask one thing? You say that f45 is sort-of like using f16 on a 35mm - I use a D810 with a 24PC lens and NEVER go beyond f11 due to diffraction. Do LF lenses behave themselves differently?
@@pleatedskirt18 it really depends on the optical quality and other factors such as resolution of the medium, distance to the aperture etc. For example, I scan my 35mm B&W negatives at f/16 on my D810 because I didn't actually see diffraction until f/22. The grain details were sharpest at 16 and began to go soft only *after* that.
I prefer a teacher who can explain without using his hands.
Can you explain to me how ice cream tastes to me?
Today, in Europa and America everybody looks the same.
They want to show they have reached it.
They make an insecure impression.
Thy wear a cap and a T-shirt.
They speak in the same way.
They have a beard.
Why?
Why do not you use a camera and show all the movements by doing.
Make the lens and the ground glass: rise, fall, tilt and shift.
Sounds like you’re having a bad day if a youtube video upset you this much.