Induction forge
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2021
- An induction forge has been something I have been interested in for quite some time. I finally had the chance to pick one up. Here is my first look at what it may be capable of.
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This induction heater is currently out of stock. but here is the link to watch for restock. ussolid.com/u-s-solid-15-kw-h...
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I just dropped of a job application for a company thats building those things for industrial purposes.
Wish me luck!
I really hope I get the job.
did you get the job
@@imgnrfan no. :(
But I'm keeping an eye on the company. Maybe next time.
@@Glaswalker1001 Tough break. Good luck man
As a mechanic we use hand held versions to heat up individual bolts/parts without the damage and or danger involved in using a torch and it's faster.
Yep they are a great tool to have in the rust belt and no setting the shop on fire with a torch.
@@Blazer02LS exactly because you already know that if you're breaking out the torches that whole area has been completely hosed down with some highly flammable penetrating oil. Which is always exciting lol.
I've seen an advert for them. Looked very effective! I immediately wanted it
@@mikedrop4421 Yep, or it's right next to the leaky fuel tank or a plastic part.. Always makes things fun then !! LOL
I know people alive today that would call this MAGIC. Truly amazing where technology has brought us. :) Thank you for the demo!
induction heating has been around for 200 years
Чудак, этим технологиям более 100 лет. С 50-х годов прошлого века на каждом заводе были ТВЧ установки для пайки или закалки.
@@MountainmonthsNot commercially available for amateur/hobbyists. Perception is a valuable skill set.
@@Mountainmonthsyes but people are stupid
Oh I love induction heating. The setup we have in my lab can get steel white hot in 1-2 seconds. One day I want one in my home shop.
@@zincoleo1 lol indeed. Its 400kHz with a ~70 kA/m amplitude at 600A
@@zincoleo1 Idk about the capacitance of the system as a whole, but we can vary the capacitors in the induction coil portion of the unit by changing them out. We've used 0.3, 0.5, and 1.0 microfarads giving ~400, 300, and 200 kHz, respectively
I guess one of the advantages is less scale, because no forced air is used, therefore easier forgewelding. This will definitely become popular in blacksmithing when the prices drop. So many advantages, especially with problematic coal supply and needs to keep and refuel propane tanks and they are not always hot enough.
But at the same time pretty useless when you have to forgeweld unusual shape :/ (f.ex. "T") So also not a perfect solution, but for most of damascus blades...
Also i'm interested if it would be possible (/easy) to forgeweld dry, without any flux. Because boy this steel looked clean!
@@MIK00KIM RUclips "EJ of the anvil" solved that problem by making an open coil, like a taco. They don't have to be a closed circle.
I've had mine for several months now and actually it makes more scale over my propane forge because the steel is in atmosphere all the time where in a propane forge its a reduced atmosphere. That said induction forge is soooo much faster once you build 15 or 20 coils but there easy to build. love mine!!!! I dont use it for carbon steel just mild because of the decarb
Could probably rig up shielding gas.
I'm suprised to see these coils being used bare in a most videos I see, the sleeving is the most protection I've ever come accross.
I started in the trades building induction furnaces, forges and ovens. Everything from large steel melting furnaces, smaller precious metal ones and heat treating/annealing furnaces for coil and leaf springs etc.
You can make the coils round, square or rectangular to suit the material being used. Filling the copper with fine sand when forming the coils on a mandrel helps keep the shape
Tne easier methods we used was brass bolts soldered to the coils with 4 hardwood blocks drilled at the proper spacing intervals placed evenly around its diameter. Ceramic blanketing can be used to isolate the hardwood from the coil. The inside of the coil then gets packed with refractory and the ends get shaped. This method only the inside gets packed.
Alternatively you can use the red/pink laminated electrical isolation board to maintain coil spacing and the entire coil can be cast in refractory. Its available in all kinds of thicknesses.
It would make using one of them safer and less stressful. A coil could could last years, maybe even a lifetime depending on how often its used.
Thought I'd pass that along in case its helpful.
Imagine a using that in a air conditioned forge shop in the summer.
I think it will be very welcome in the hot summer
We actually used a handheld version of this in the automotive field to heat up nuts, bolts, etc. in areas where a torch isn't a good idea. Great technology.
I can see that being really handy for things like Hardy tools. You can really isolate your heat areas so that you can maximize the output of your hammer. imagine creating a shoulder without changing the shape of your stem.
There is a video out there somewhere of Off Center Tools using one to make hardy tools. very impressive. its a 10 year old video, so a bit fuzzy
Way to go! If memory serves, you have been dreaming of this for a few years now. I am so excited for you, this will open up so many other wonderful things!
I hope you have had a nice day.
I wanted to thank you for your videos you make. I’ll admit, some days I feel a little lonely, and that’s fine, but I want you to know how much I appreciate the work you do. I always look forward to when I get home from work, and get to sit down to watch your channel. Although we’ve never met, I feel like here at black bear forge I’ve found a friend.
Keep up good work, I hope you and your family are well,
-Colin
That is simply Amazing! It's great seeing you work with one of these induction forges. Always wondered how well they work. Thanks for the great video! Looking forward to seeing more, with the new forge!
Thanks for sharing with us John. Have fun with your new unit. Fred. 👍👍👏🏻👏🏻
That is cool. It has to be exciting, and I've been waiting to see a video of somebody just playing with one and talking about it as you did
Pretty snazzy John cant wait to see what you do with this equipment
Wow, I have been wondering what they look like. And also how they work! Thanks for showing this!
Man I really want to get one of these! Been looking at them for a lot of years now and as you probably know they have now finally come down in price enough a mere mortal can afford one..about 10 yrs ago a sells rep at sofa quadstate had one for sale for $30,000 what a bargain 😂
That would have been above my price point for sure. I think with the cooler, cart and everything needed to make coils I am about $2,000 into this. So at this point its just learning how to make coils without kinks.
If you watch prices you can get them below $600, (not counting cooling) I paid $596 for mine and I agree, I think they’re all pretty much the same unit. It’s been quite a game changer in my shop.
@@derekmelton This is interesting, but seems like it’s just for doing one piece. Like, if doing production wouldn’t it be faster to be forging one piece while another is heating?
@@aliceharvey1226 Production runs are still much better done in propane, however, many of the things I make are done one at a time and for that, induction is perfect.
@@BlackBearForge John its possible to freeze water inside smaller sections of copper pipe to stop it from collapsing, you would likely need to put a bend in the centre first to fit in your freezer, and you need something to plug the ends to keep the water in like bluetack, hope this helps
I recently saw a post about induction heating. And John's doing a video on it, I clicked on it so fast. I always wondered if the induction coil was solid or a pipe. And I always wondered why the copper didn't just melt. Thank you John for all the extra information. I did not know that there was antifreeze cooling solutions for welding equipment.
Once you get to use one you'll want one. I loved playing around with one. Made a Knife, fork and spoon pretty fast.
Nice piece of technology. Thx for the demo and looking forward to see induction forge in action.
TIME SAVER!!! I'm glad you showed us how it works!
Very neat! Thanks for sharing John! Been interested in these for a while
Very excited to see more on this!
Love this, can’t wait to see it used in projects!
Very nice localized no wasted fuels.
This right here, my friends, is some serious science-magic! I love it!
Wow!!!! Time saver. Metal heats up so fast.controlled heating is another plus point.Good addition to shop👍👍🔥🔥🔥🔥
You got that right!
Wowsers that is pretty cool tool / toy keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friend forge on God bless
The video I’ve been looking forward to for a couple years. I hoped eventually you would buy one. Definitely ready to learn and see more about these before I buy one. Thank you John.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I went by Blacksmith Depot in North Carolina to buy some toys. The owner showed me the one they use for production. It was magical.
Very cool, no pun intended! Thank you for exposing us to "cutting edge" combined with "old school" equipment and techniques. Ultimately, it is up to each individual to decide what combination works best for them. It is really helpful to get objective evaluation from Black Bear Forge.
We use induction melting in the dental lab nearly every day. It is sooo fast and awesome!
I already knew these exist, but it's continually fascinated
Thanks for the link.
Sweet. Thank you sir.
Looks good very interesting take care.
Thanks for sharing. Awesome.
I remember seeing induction heating being used to heat up blanks before forging the flutes in twist drills (and I think in milling cutters, too) in 1985 - 1986 at what was then SKF & Dormer Tools, in Sheffield. The blank would get up to forging temperature in under two seconds.
Thanks for sharing!
Very cool! I remember the vid a while back where you said you wished you had one.
Congratulations 🎉
Shop i work in uses it for heat treating hydraulic cylinder rods, it'll heat a 2.5in dia. Solid bar in a few minutes
Been looking forward to this video.. what a great tool addition
Hope you enjoy it!
Very Nice 👌 Mr. Switzer
Amazing stuff. I would really like one as they work sooooo well.
@Black Bear Forge, thank you very much for presenting this video on induction forge technology. As you probably know, one can build these induction furnaces if so desired.
Very handy tool! another ace in the hole.
I have the exact same forge and I love it!
So now you have gas coal and induction forges you’ve got the best of all 3 worlds now
What a great tool.
John, this video couldn't have come at a better time. I'm just about to take the plunge on one of these units. Not the same brand but all the same specs. Thanks.
That's a neat setup. I worked in a railroad wheel shop, and they use induction heaters to expand bearing races and gear rings so they slip onto their quills. Since it's a big industrial shop, those are powered by 480vac three-phase. I wondered if there was an application that would let those bring metal to a forging temperature. Very cool. 👍
Very cool idea, love your videos !
Cool addition to the tool chest.
I'm one of the subscribers waiting on the ribbon burner build.✌
Just the tip action nicely done!
Hey I saw a hand held one of these built for mechanics to remove broken bolts. Now that would be handy for my small forge.
That is an awesome machine!
Hey John. Again, thanks for the vid´s!! I had bought myself a smaller unit to do some heat treating/colouring of steels (Axes, hammers etc.). Waiting for the weather to clear up. Not an apparatus for indoor work...
Wow I can see this could be great tool
That’s really cool!
High on my list!
I have one almost identical to yours. You'll get better heat on smaller stock if you hold the stock through the loop at an angle. Also, more coil loops means stronger magnetic field, which heats a bit faster. I love mine, works great, and as you point out, helps with managing the shop temp at times. One odd thing, these are Chinese and they don't realize American "220" is actually 240v. Mine won't work above 240, and my power runs around 242v. So I had to make a voltage reducer to shave a few volts of my mains. I used a few power diodes to accomplish that. Worked great and was cheap.
great video as usual
I’d look into electromagnetic coupling via ferrite to couple very closely to the workpiece. That would bring the field losses way down and cause the piece to heat up even faster.
This tight coupling was and still is used in high frequency power supplies.
Very Cool, Sir...
Dang! Always showing me stuff I didn't know I needed... lol!
we had one at work that was used to heat motor bearings for rebuilding electric motors
Thanks a lot as usual.
21st century blacksmithing!
Amazing video - thank you! I learned a lot
Fascinating! Thanks for sharing, that's really cool, and yeah first thing I wondered is if it'll get up to forge welding temp
Yes it will
You can watch as the scale forms suddenly yeah man it quickly melts away and that is your temperature
Great video! Informative and entertaining. Actually I made my own modest power induction heater to harden some screw drivers' tips, chisels and drill bits etc,
Super interesting
I use a hand held induction heater for heating bearings to remove them
When I get into production work, an induction forge is something I think will be amazing. First thought about them that way when I stumbled onto those Swedish axe factory videos, where they just have a long bar feeding into an induction forge, advance it to cut off the heated slug, and then use the slug while the next one heats. Even if you don't reach quite that level of efficiency where it could be finished after the first heat, I imagine it'd be really good for the first step of most things made from barstock. Turn it on, do the first step on a dozen items, then start sticking them in the forge. Didn't know anything about the size to coil size limitations. I've got to wonder if it would heat a stack of material (ie a damascus stack) simultaneously, making it even more ideal for welding.
Derek Melton uses one. He was one of the first ones I saw videos of using one. Found it through one of the forums.
I highly respect trails before giving a recommendation,I think it should be setup fully.
Looks like a good product,
Cost of use
Cost of total after setting up.
Thanks John Switzer I understand about retirement and when you have free time to make your videos I always learn and you are like a friend visiting
Thanks
Very cool how technology has advanced!
Thats VOODOO MAGIC
Wow awesome.
As far as I can tell, a benefit of this method is speed of heating, especially localized for critically focused forge welding. The need for specially designed and sized coils may be a bit aggravating, though. But for repetitive production work woul be the ticket. Making nails would be a good application. Can visualize a nail every 10 seconds as opposed to only two a minute wide open conventually. Yes, I make a lot of nails for specialty purposes for a few carpentry craftsmen. 🐾🔥⚒
As always your videos are informative, I'm hopeful that after you've had your induction Forge for a while, perhaps you can give us your opinion on how economical it is to run. I'm sure there are numbers guys out there who can tell us how many minutes you can run for how many dollars, but if you could mention what it does to your power bill sometime in the future , I'm sure many of us would appreciate it. Your channel is awesome! Thank you.
That's the plan!
WoW John first throat of the day witch forge will I use today.
Congratulations John you deserve the little luxuries you have worked
hard enough to earn them . Cheers.(:
very interesting ,trying to check put uk suppliers can see lots of possibilities for this ,thanks for posting
Search for Induction Heater Heating Furnace Machine LH-15A, several EBay suppliers.
On-off switch remind me switches of old i486-era computer cases! Indicator LEDs in these metal collars are something from same era, too. And mechanical timers are much older! Very strange front panel, IMHO
I don't think they've changed much in the 10+ years since I was first aware of them.But the price has come down a bit. I suspect it is something that will improve at some point making them even better.
Hello John
I have seen this Technik in a car Shop to losen rosted bolds and such things or to heat a muffler to Split the parts . There for it is a string coil that get wind arround the pipe and get it got than
Very good idea to use this Technik in the shop
Take care and stay healthy
Greetings Frank
Awesome! You could try making a cylinder out of soft refractory brick with a hole bored down the middle, wind the coil around the outside. "Undersized" parts will heat up way hotter, with less power, since it would kill the radiative and convective cooling.
Love IT!
No roar, no stink.. I want me one of those!
A 'Cool" tool indeed !
I watch a worker at Ken's Custom Iron temper punches they sell in the one they have.
Oh man I didn’t even consider how easy tempering would be with these!
I used to use an induction system for casting gold and platinum. Now platinum melting requires some serious heat!
Make the coil into a circular one as in a stove top shape. That’ll give you the close spacing to heat up the piece with.
looking at the dimensions of the steel rectangle before and after heating. it is pretty astonishing at the way it changed due to heating. It looks like it got thinner which doesn't make sense.
Based on how induction works John, moving your part in and out of the coil at a constant rate will heat the part faster than holding it somewhat still. even if the stroke were small 1/4 inch 1/8 inch it causes more fighting of magnetic fields as described by lenz's law which causes more energy being turned into heat.
Hi John,
I started watching your videos a year ago. I was inspired but had nowhere to run a coal or gas forge. I have had a 15kw induction forge up and running since just before Xmas and I love it. The hardest thing to find in the UK are the metric flare fittings. I don't have your freezing issues and just have a big tub of water and a hot-tub emptying pump I bought on Amazon for £65. 8mm Copper pipe is readily available here but harder for you I believe. I make coils by filling the tubes with salt. EJ of the anvil coils 1/4" freehand. You can't do that with 8mm!
I have made an EJ style taco shell coil but it took practice.
Enjoy your new tool!
That taco coil seems like the solution to a lot of problems
@@BlackBearForge It's all about the size. The first one I made was formed around a 30mm pole. It brought my 40x5mm plate up to high orange but would not get to welding heat. I have made another tidier looking one around a 20mm bar but haven't used it yet. Filling the copper with fine salt and turning over the ends is my answer to stopping the kinks, whatever shape I'm coiling.
I am making my own induction heater for forging and other uses in the shop, takes longer to make than I thought, some part take a long time to arrive
I think it would be useful to angle the coil differently could be useful. As is you have to approach it from the side to stick your pieces through, and being able to walk straight towards it might give a better workflow.
I’ve been looking at these lately for my garage but even the 2k for forge is outside my budget right now. I’ll probably go gas but I’ve been kicking around the ribbon burner forge for a while as well. Your chili forge has me leaning in that direction.
Ebay has them for $650
Thanks. It’s not just the unit. I can’t use city water here so I would also have to have a chiller and then the extra tools to make more fittings. It’s definitely a want down there road but I think the propane forge is the next logical step after coal, because I can use the propane in my 20x20 garage that only has one outlet.
There is a utube video where a guy makes a coil in the shape of a toco so it’s easier to get in and out. Looks like it works great. I’ll send a link if I can find it again I too did buy an induction forge but I just never set it up. Now I think I may sooner then later. Awesome John. Thx for sharing …..Paul👍🇺🇸⚒🔥
I actually have that in my playlist on the subject. Once I get better at making coils without kinks I'll make one.
@@BlackBearForge If you cant get a bender the right size try filling the tube with sand (crimp both ends tight and make sure the sand is DRY)! ..... or you could use an exterior spring. It goes outside the pipe, you make your bend and slide the spring on a bit and repeat!
@@totherarf
You beat me to it. Spring tightly around the OD and if it's still to complex to manage without kinks, sand or even salt fill.
@@zedex1226 If it were easy everyone would be doing it ;0)
Neat!
Induction coils are great. I wonder how quickly you can make that candle holder with this toy.