Whaaat. It’s not too often anymore I come across a “you’re doing it wrong” video where I am actually doing it wrong and it makes total sense why it’s wrong. This was very insightful
thanx so much, I keep telling this to my students. One particular instrument where those problems become extremly audible is vibraphone, and marimba, too. I see this all the time at live venues and at other studios. Players even fight aggressively for the wrong setup, because they know it from so many examples. So NEVER mic a vibraphone from the sides, with directional mics facing inwards, please! I had the best experiences with an A-B setup standing high upon the middle of the instruments with a spacing equivalent to one octave of the plates. Try it, you’ll hear!
Good point! Never thought of it that way, though it does slightly confuse me because something like the Glynn John method of recording drums resembles your forbidden pattern, but with the mics spread out along the radius further and rotated on the axis. Thanks for such a good video!
As much as I appreciate the informative content and clear explanation of the video, I would also like to mention that I could and will listen to your lectures for hours.
Any thoughts on Glynn Johns or Recorderman overhead positioning? On both, the mics are pointed inwards, yet tend to give lovely stereophonic and binaural results, from my experience
Great question! Basically in Glyn Johns technique the mics are so far apart from one another, and so close to the source, that it's not really a stereo technique anymore but rather two mono sources with panning. The bleed fills the spaces in between.
In addition to Martyn's answer you'll also notice the two mics are not competing for the stereo image, amplitude and time are both working together still. Glyn Johns only works if the mics aren't competing, which is why you make sure they are equidistant from the snare and roughly 32in away. The ride sound will arrive at the rear microphone before the overhead mic it will also be louder due to it's proximity. I'd argue it's a bit like a spaced pair in terms of qualifying for "stereo-technique-ness" and in my book it's on the brink of still being a stereo technique but it's on very shaky ground haha! You'll notice if you set it up correctly you can pan the overhead mic hard right and the behind mic hard left and still end up with the snare sounding in the middle, to me that's enough to qualify it as a "stereo" array. Especially considering you can balance the full kit quite nicely without any spots if done correctly. But to each their own! I think one could easily argue it's not a "true" stereo technique.
@@martynheynemusic Fair enough, but does the Glyn Johns array not capture an accurate stereophonic sound of the kit? I'd argue it sounds better than almost all of the traditional stereo arrays for kit for most jazz/small kit applications. It creates an accurate stereo image of a drum kit and by that definition I would say it is a "stereo array" as it creates a stereo image. I think calling it two mono sources with panning is a bit oversimplified and doesn't give the array it's due. For comparison: I would argue the Decca tree is a stereo array, If you agree with me that it is a stereo array then you'll also probably agree that the array tends to fall apart on smaller sources than orchestra. Does this officially make it not a stereo array? You could obviously argue "no it's a LCR" but in my book a stereo array is one that represents a realistic stereo image. Once again, I'm just being pedantic about all this, in regards to the video and the greater conversation it is largely un-important haha! We can both however agree that pointing cardioids in towards each other spaced out is a bad idea and to absolutely not do it hehe!
As a pianist, I am trying to achieve a recording like my ears hear the piano. Zenph Studio recordings of their piano used a dummy head with the mic elements in the ears. So should the spacing between two mics be about the width of a head? And should there be an object in between about the size of a head to block the sound from opposite sides from being caught by the side sensitivity of the mic?
I like my snare dead center. If i face the mics away from the snare they might sound different in each mic. But I did not do my own research on this. So maybe I'm wrong. I will definitely try out next time!
With overhead drum mics, I get one mic where I want it, measure from the center of the snare to the mic capsule then place the other equal distance to the center of the snare. In a mix with the snare mic panned center, it will also be dead center of the overheads when panned hard L & R.
What about stereo micing an acoustic guitar? Most people have one pointing at the bridge and one at the neck joint. Both facing in. Is that wrong? It seems to work pretty well. You capture the different overtones.
Thanks for the excellent explanation. So each and every drum overhead micing technique where the microphones are pointed inwards (mostly towards the snare drum) have these problems? do you have experience using the Recorderman technique (equidistant from kick & snare via a cord/cable and pointed towards snare drum) and if so would that have the same problems? Thanks in advance
Hi, drum overheads do indeed often have this problem but there's a point where I wouldn't consider them a stereo pair anymore. I've made a video about this in relation to drum micing here: ruclips.net/video/GLoSzoqDcac/видео.htmlsi=ycwRWFeNQla4717F
My question is, why is AB recommended with Omni capsules? I’ve been focusing on using Cardioids because of the risky rooms with low ceilings etc.. Thanks 👍
Zoom xyh6 has the main XY in the better position you demo at the end, but that's a mistake? Or a compromise from only having a few cm space to work with?
Very useful technique! It is a little different with real figure 8 mics, as opposed to switchable ones. Also important to keep in mind that the rear is Left/Right reversed.
@ what’s the difference at that? Actually at the mic I have use for this have separate out for 2 of the membranes, can you see any problem with that? I am not make a copy and change the phase in this case. I use the different membrane in figure 8 as stereo and a cardioid in the middle
@ yes sorry…. I was confused… the way you mounted the microphone is the same as Blumlein but you use 2 figure 8 instead of cardioid and figure 8. Was mixed up the name hahaha. Have try that as well but you need a good sounding room as well :)
Nice video and info for engineers without a lot of experience. Too bad you didn’t mention the angles of the mics in the various setups. But hey.. you weren’t trying to cover everything. Good luck to you sir.
Very good point sir! This video is not so much about how to do a specific technique, but to get people to consider what stereo effect they're creating. However, particularly with XY the angle is often not well chosen, so for anyone getting lost in the comments, here's a tip: Set the mics so that the -3dB points of the polar pattern are facing forwards. If they overlap on both mics, the image will be fairly even. For XY that means: Cardioids :131°, Super cardioids: 115, Hypercardioids: 105°. Of course you can chose narrower or wider angles for a specific application but I would always use this as the starting point.
@@lucaserojas What happens when you have have identical volumes in both sides and then lowers one side? The phantom center moves and is panned to one side. Moron :)
@@kristianalexanderpedersen7382 I believe you're thinking of a mono signal. In the latest video I'm outlining the distinction between panned mono and a true stereo image. Cheers
Sure there’s a bit of hiss, but this explanation was very clear and concise. Two things can be simultaneously true - there is indeed hiss, but the information delivered is accurate.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Whaaat. It’s not too often anymore I come across a “you’re doing it wrong” video where I am actually doing it wrong and it makes total sense why it’s wrong. This was very insightful
Happy to hear it helped!
Good for you!! An open mind and the concept of improving. Great comment.
Such a clear and entertaining explanation, thanks Martyn. I'm gonna enjoy this series so much!
Thanks Adrien, I appreciate it!
3:56 Nice pause for comedic effect. Liked.
thanx so much, I keep telling this to my students. One particular instrument where those problems become extremly audible is vibraphone, and marimba, too. I see this all the time at live venues and at other studios. Players even fight aggressively for the wrong setup, because they know it from so many examples. So NEVER mic a vibraphone from the sides, with directional mics facing inwards, please! I had the best experiences with an A-B setup standing high upon the middle of the instruments with a spacing equivalent to one octave of the plates. Try it, you’ll hear!
Love the humor!
Good point! Never thought of it that way, though it does slightly confuse me because something like the Glynn John method of recording drums resembles your forbidden pattern, but with the mics spread out along the radius further and rotated on the axis. Thanks for such a good video!
Thank you Steven! I'm addressing your question regarding Glyn Johns in the latest video
Clear, logical, to the point and short. 🙂
I try to trim the fat a bit. Glad you found it informative!
Thank you so much. This is so useful and so obvious when you explain it.
So happy it was insightful to you!
An excellent summary and explanation, Martyn. Top work! :o)
Thank you very much!
learned a lot there very humbling danke
Sehr gerne!
That was amazing! Everything you need to get started with stereo recording!
Glad to hear it helped!
As much as I appreciate the informative content and clear explanation of the video, I would also like to mention that I could and will listen to your lectures for hours.
Thanks very much dear Anne! So now I just have to record hours of tech chatter then..
@@martynheynemusic yes please!
Yes ! 💪
This explains why I liked using ORTF so much.
Thank you, very helpful 😊
Glad it helped!
Thanks for the advice! Great info!
This is now my favourite YT channel on recording techniques.
Keep up the good work.
PS The dark humor is the cherry on the top!
Thank you, that's an honour!
Richtig gut. Hier wurde gelacht. Schön erklärt auch. Cheers!
Das freut mich!
Thank you. Great video, which will help me in future sessions!
Happy to hear it!
I have made a HUUUUUGE mistake. Thanks for the Clearification 😅
Glad it helped - we're all learning!
Very good stuff! Please keep going!
Damn thank you
you're very welcome, thanks for watching!
@@martynheynemusic I have a recording session next week I will use my new knowledge
Absolutely brilliant video. I wish more of my friends in audio would take the time to learn more about stereo mic techniques.
bring them here and let's nerd out together!
Mind blown...
Awesome stuff, thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Well put! Subscribed
appreciate it!
Fantastic video!
Any thoughts on Glynn Johns or Recorderman overhead positioning? On both, the mics are pointed inwards, yet tend to give lovely stereophonic and binaural results, from my experience
Yes! I'm addressing this in the latest video. See you there!
How does this apply to a Glyn Johns style drum setup? Seems to give a nice stereo image, both pointing more or less inward.
Great question! Basically in Glyn Johns technique the mics are so far apart from one another, and so close to the source, that it's not really a stereo technique anymore but rather two mono sources with panning. The bleed fills the spaces in between.
In addition to Martyn's answer you'll also notice the two mics are not competing for the stereo image, amplitude and time are both working together still. Glyn Johns only works if the mics aren't competing, which is why you make sure they are equidistant from the snare and roughly 32in away. The ride sound will arrive at the rear microphone before the overhead mic it will also be louder due to it's proximity. I'd argue it's a bit like a spaced pair in terms of qualifying for "stereo-technique-ness" and in my book it's on the brink of still being a stereo technique but it's on very shaky ground haha! You'll notice if you set it up correctly you can pan the overhead mic hard right and the behind mic hard left and still end up with the snare sounding in the middle, to me that's enough to qualify it as a "stereo" array. Especially considering you can balance the full kit quite nicely without any spots if done correctly. But to each their own! I think one could easily argue it's not a "true" stereo technique.
@@JonathanGalle Think of it like this: Can you use Glyn Johns on a piano? On a choir?
@@martynheynemusic Fair enough, but does the Glyn Johns array not capture an accurate stereophonic sound of the kit? I'd argue it sounds better than almost all of the traditional stereo arrays for kit for most jazz/small kit applications. It creates an accurate stereo image of a drum kit and by that definition I would say it is a "stereo array" as it creates a stereo image. I think calling it two mono sources with panning is a bit oversimplified and doesn't give the array it's due. For comparison: I would argue the Decca tree is a stereo array, If you agree with me that it is a stereo array then you'll also probably agree that the array tends to fall apart on smaller sources than orchestra. Does this officially make it not a stereo array? You could obviously argue "no it's a LCR" but in my book a stereo array is one that represents a realistic stereo image. Once again, I'm just being pedantic about all this, in regards to the video and the greater conversation it is largely un-important haha! We can both however agree that pointing cardioids in towards each other spaced out is a bad idea and to absolutely not do it hehe!
Hi Lyle, I've made a new video addressing this question regarding Glyn Johns. Hope to see you there!
Thank you. You did a great job of explaining that.
Appreciate it!
Très bien Martyn...😆I mean very good, concise & well-explained thanks....
Merci beaucoup!
@@martynheynemusic 😆
As a pianist, I am trying to achieve a recording like my ears hear the piano. Zenph Studio recordings of their piano used a dummy head with the mic elements in the ears. So should the spacing between two mics be about the width of a head? And should there be an object in between about the size of a head to block the sound from opposite sides from being caught by the side sensitivity of the mic?
Brilliant question, thank you! I'll answer this in the next episode
here we go: ruclips.net/video/3g4KYXJ9Vjk/видео.html
cool
That was incredible, where can I hear your next drum solo?
I'm talking about drums in the latest video. Missed a chance to make silly noises though..
Thanks for such a clear explanation :)))
My pleasure!
I like my snare dead center. If i face the mics away from the snare they might sound different in each mic. But I did not do my own research on this. So maybe I'm wrong. I will definitely try out next time!
With overhead drum mics, I get one mic where I want it, measure from the center of the snare to the mic capsule then place the other equal distance to the center of the snare. In a mix with the snare mic panned center, it will also be dead center of the overheads when panned hard L & R.
Check out my latest video on the Glyn Johns technique! See you there
Bloody good job!!
Thanks mate!
What about stereo micing an acoustic guitar? Most people have one pointing at the bridge and one at the neck joint. Both facing in. Is that wrong? It seems to work pretty well. You capture the different overtones.
works if you keep them parallel
Great video! Thanks!!!!
Thanks
Thanks for the excellent explanation. So each and every drum overhead micing technique where the microphones are pointed inwards (mostly towards the snare drum) have these problems? do you have experience using the Recorderman technique (equidistant from kick & snare via a cord/cable and pointed towards snare drum) and if so would that have the same problems? Thanks in advance
Hi, drum overheads do indeed often have this problem but there's a point where I wouldn't consider them a stereo pair anymore. I've made a video about this in relation to drum micing here: ruclips.net/video/GLoSzoqDcac/видео.htmlsi=ycwRWFeNQla4717F
Does this apply for acoustic guitar as well where the sound source "action" is more concentratet?
Yes
My question is, why is AB recommended with Omni capsules? I’ve been focusing on using Cardioids because of the risky rooms with low ceilings etc.. Thanks 👍
Very good question! It's mostly because Omnis can do things other mics can't and they in turn can only do AB.
Hi @astralaudio! I've made a video answering your question in depth here: ruclips.net/video/GDMsXpZWUsY/видео.htmlsi=xEYVpjdoAupnQfHW
More AB: ruclips.net/video/cSMhagm0hnk/видео.htmlsi=QDrjN3E7hcxWFw9T
Zoom xyh6 has the main XY in the better position you demo at the end, but that's a mistake? Or a compromise from only having a few cm space to work with?
that's the correct position! Thanks Zoom
Hearing is physical, listening is mental, optical illusions in sound is psychoacoustic.
Mooi gesproken dat Nederlands!
Dank je wel Albert
@@martynheynemusicHeel mooi ! Das Deutsch war auch perfekt.
What’s your opinion at Blumlein? I am using 1 pair of austrian audio oc818 for this purpose.
Very useful technique! It is a little different with real figure 8 mics, as opposed to switchable ones. Also important to keep in mind that the rear is Left/Right reversed.
@ what’s the difference at that? Actually at the mic I have use for this have separate out for 2 of the membranes, can you see any problem with that? I am not make a copy and change the phase in this case. I use the different membrane in figure 8 as stereo and a cardioid in the middle
@@dannepedersen the two outputs just give you more flexibility, that's absolutely fine. An 8 and a cardioid sound like you're doing MS..
@ yes sorry…. I was confused… the way you mounted the microphone is the same as Blumlein but you use 2 figure 8 instead of cardioid and figure 8.
Was mixed up the name hahaha.
Have try that as well but you need a good sounding room as well :)
Beyerdynamuc MC-930.
Yes!
Can this technique be used on an acoustic guitar to create a stereo image?
Sure, ORTF is probably a good starting point, so I suggest taking a look into its specifications.
Yes, near coincident, coincident, and AB can all be good on acoustic guitar!
Nice video and info for engineers without a lot of experience.
Too bad you didn’t mention the angles of the mics in the various setups. But hey.. you weren’t trying to cover everything.
Good luck to you sir.
Very good point sir! This video is not so much about how to do a specific technique, but to get people to consider what stereo effect they're creating. However, particularly with XY the angle is often not well chosen, so for anyone getting lost in the comments, here's a tip: Set the mics so that the -3dB points of the polar pattern are facing forwards. If they overlap on both mics, the image will be fairly even. For XY that means: Cardioids :131°, Super cardioids: 115, Hypercardioids: 105°. Of course you can chose narrower or wider angles for a specific application but I would always use this as the starting point.
Why record in 24 bits went mixer 32-40 bits
It can be useful to mix in a higher resolution than the recording or final delivery master for a few reasons but not really worth losing sleep over.
Mid/side?
As in, should I make a video about mid/side? Good idea!
A sound louder in one speaker than the other is just called panning ☺️
Panning is just the shifting of sound from one side of the stereo image to the other, nothing to do with loudness
@@lucaserojas What happens when you have have identical volumes in both sides and then lowers one side? The phantom center moves and is panned to one side. Moron :)
Sounds like the latest video on Stereo I just made could be on interest to you!
@@martynheynemusic Sounds like you don't know what you're talking about :)
@@kristianalexanderpedersen7382 I believe you're thinking of a mono signal. In the latest video I'm outlining the distinction between panned mono and a true stereo image. Cheers
Sub-SCRIBED!
Cheers!
I was like 666. Is Satan going to call me or should I call him?
Most common mistake: doing stereo recordings.
touché
@@martynheynemusic great vids btw mate!
dude... your video has the most annoying hiss sound throughout it...hard to watch an audio guy talking about audio mistakes when this is going on
dude?🤷🏽♂️
it's not *that* bad is it?
Sure there’s a bit of hiss, but this explanation was very clear and concise. Two things can be simultaneously true - there is indeed hiss, but the information delivered is accurate.
nah its poor form plain and simply
@@JuiceNZ you sure your name isn’t dick?
I will always listen to a person that speaks multiple languages 🤌🏻🤌🏻🤌🏻🤌🏻🤣
I see you got some Italian as well!