As a someone who is a machinist and gear cutting specialist I always love watching how people come up with their methods of making their desired gear(s) in their home shop. You're bang on by the way, majority off the time spline shafts are hobbed/shaped and internal splines are pretty much always shaped unless it has a non standard pitch which will lead to it being wire cut
Nicely done. We built industrial gearboxes and supplied gears to customers specification, mostly automotive. We broached, hobbled and shaped splines, but when doing single piece for gearboxes we used the same method as you have shown. We did, at least once, have a special single cut broach made so we were able to cut 6 splines with a rounded root. Your way works great so kudos to you. Thanks for posting ✔️👍
The problem solving and creativity always amazes me. You do a great job of reducing things into the simplest operations and tackling them one at a time.
As a trained machinist, we make splineshafts pretty much in the same was, just that we use a flat cutter on the side so the splines are in a horizontal position when being cut and we use a formtool specifically ground for the job to make a round profile at the foot of the splines.
Wow! Timely! I'm just been trying to figure out how to cut an internal spline in the clutch hub of a speedway mororbike. Your broaching method should do the trick!
It seems you will have accumulated error with that indexing technique, but for only 6 splines probably good enough. I made an indexing plate that attached to the end of the shaft. It has the same number of holes as splines, and uses pins in the holes resting on an adjustable parallel. I learned that from JoePie, he has a great old video on it.
That is amazing! I’m a hobby machinist and I also love 3D printing. This will solve so many problems with trying to print 3D parts to use in the machinist shop made tooling. Herringbone 3D printed gear teeth are reasonably strong the weak point was always the one or two key way(s). I like the simplified profile of your 6 way shaft. I had over complicated the ways of my design for years and turned it into unitanium with to many stress risers. Thanks for sharing.
Hi I just followed your instructions, no on and off settings But the beeps are ON So happy for your advice. Thankyou so much 👍👍👍 Stay safe Regards Greg
@@lawriealush-jaggs1473 I'm not sure how to "size" it but the table is roughly 850x250mm and it weighs enough to be terrifying when swinging on an engine crane.
That’s pretty awesome! My biggest challenge would be figuring out all the angles on the dividing head to get it right. Then there’s all the setup work multiple times to do the shaft. Talk about all the places you can make a mistake and scrap your shaft! Wow!
Tama ka dyan.. Hindi kayang imaintain ng spring ang initial na bilis ng flywheel.. Gaya ng laruan. Titigil at titigil din ang pag-ikot ng flywheel.. Number 1 na kalaban ng perpetual motion is friction a bearing
I think you're selling yourself short. That'll work just fine for nearly any application, including high-torque ones. Remember, you now have essentially multiple keys that are part of the original material, distributing the load across both surfaces. Torque away, that thing is not going anywhere.
Ever consider laying a trapper behind the outer edge of your spine shaft? You could theoretically use it as a rotary broach. You could then theoretically cut your internal spline part with much closer tolerances and produce more aesthetic parts.
Straight splines surface contacts are the sides and the smaller diameter. That's why you need a spline shaft cutter, which is around 50$ in china. You can buy spline shaft by the meter, as they are used a lot in agricultural world.
I know some are, but the splines in the mill and drill press are purely side fitting, and it will be the same profile that I replicate in the gearbox. I did look at getting some off the shelf spline stock, but it was more than I really needed. Cheers
Well that wasw ridiculously easy once you made the flypress and the broach and the broach sleeve and then had the chuck indexed in just right ...and of course the end mill you needed....yup very easy indeed 🤣🤔 Quite the journey thankyou for sharing....very cool
Neither the change gears or the keyed or splined shafts are hardened on my L6 Harrison lathe and it was made in 1964 and there is no slop/wear in any of them. For this sort of application the shafts and splined outer components will be fine without hardening.
Given the scope of what I need it for, I don't think a hardening process is necessary. I think it could possibly cause me issues to due to the part warping or shrinking as a I heat treat it, and I really don't know if you can grind internal splines. So atleast for the moment moment will leave it unhardened.
I wrote an article in Engineering in miniature around ten years ago on this subject. The error here is that you should have taken multiple cuts between the keys to create a faceted curved surface for increased contact.
You think so? Im just going off machinery handbook to replicate the spline pattern and method that they hand laid out. Do you think it would make a big difference to the final result? Not doubting juat curious Cheers
@@artisanmakes There are multiple types of splines used in industry. I do not disrespect your efforts, I like them. That said, splines threads have a percentage of fit rating. The method I wrote up used the same principle as yours but between four splines was around six hundred divisions each. This was then blued and hand scraped in, a lot of work you may think but the end result is an extremely positive drive with very little movement.
I work in a place before, make anything spline, tooth, gear, anything to do with power transmission. In or out. Anything. Buy me a few beers and I spill any secret to making them any method.
Nice Work , especially on the inside Splines and It definitely seems usable. But on the splines i know, the inside of the bore and the "valleys" on the shaft are the locating Features, and not the splines themselves, they are Just for transmitting the Torque. But machining the inside Diameter of the splines to a preise measurement is quite Tricky i think.
@@bengrogan9710 A profiled side and face cutter mounted on an arbor in a horizontal mill will produce the curved profile in the root of the spline very easily.
It will depend on what type of spline type it is. Some use both the root and the sides for contact, but some use the side flanks only. My mill and drill press spindle for example use only the side flats and neither the inside or outside flats make contact. How much of a difference it makes, I am not sure but for the project I have in the works the spline I made here will work.
Seems like a perfect excuse to build a 4th axis for the CNC mill :) Rotate the shaft while moving the cutter horizontally to create a cylindrical profile between the spline teeth. Either that or make the hole match the flat root profile. Mill a hexagonal hole into the gear before broaching the internal teeth, and make a hexagonal broach guide to go with it. That would also index the cut without any accumulated error.
ive made some internal splines before , we have a old vertical shaper with a rotary bed that works like a standard dividing head , we have a 4 jaw chuck mounted on it so we can dial up jobs that require splines or multiple keys however the downfall of the machine is the tooling we have for it , all self made even before i started working there so theyre not perfectly square as well as when i need to grind HSS tools for the odd internal gear here and there
Technically, your mill isn't too far from being a hobber as is. You would just need to make an arbor for the hob, a lot of change gears, and a way to adjust the shaft center distances for the helical milling attachment, and extremely precise control over both your feedrate and spindle speed (ideally the table leadscrew and spindle are mechanically linked, but CNC works on the aforementioned method). So yeah, basically a hobber already!
@@bengrogan9710 I have seen involute gear teeth cut in a similar way to how you describe using only a slitting saw as the cutting tool. It requires a lot of indexes of the dividing head and the correct offset up and down on the Z axis but it does work.
Awesome video and work. Can you explain the math behind knowing where to cut the external splines on the shaft? How to figure out how far to move the table off center and such?
No fancy math needed. Tooth width = broach width. Center the cutter over the workpiece and then move half the cutter diameter plus half the tooth width.
I'd look at Clickspring's recent series on gear cutters for ideas on how to cut the correct profile on your splined shaft. You could probably buy premade cutters or make your own.
How can you tell that the quill part is die cast? At scale, would it make sense to make that part out of a custom aluminium extrusion, with finish machining? Excellent and creative work as usual, by the way.
A great straightforward approach to the problem. As soon as you cut the keyway my brain went "Of course! The answer is NOW obvious!"
As a someone who is a machinist and gear cutting specialist I always love watching how people come up with their methods of making their desired gear(s) in their home shop. You're bang on by the way, majority off the time spline shafts are hobbed/shaped and internal splines are pretty much always shaped unless it has a non standard pitch which will lead to it being wire cut
You keep coming up with solutions to problems I didn't know I had. Thank you.
Nicely done. We built industrial gearboxes and supplied gears to customers specification, mostly automotive. We broached, hobbled and shaped splines, but when doing single piece for gearboxes we used the same method as you have shown. We did, at least once, have a special single cut broach made so we were able to cut 6 splines with a rounded root. Your way works great so kudos to you. Thanks for posting ✔️👍
The problem solving and creativity always amazes me. You do a great job of reducing things into the simplest operations and tackling them one at a time.
You're doing the hackiest yet coolest DIY machining anywhere!
As a trained machinist, we make splineshafts pretty much in the same was, just that we use a flat cutter on the side so the splines are in a horizontal position when being cut and we use a formtool specifically ground for the job to make a round profile at the foot of the splines.
That was a great result. Not only was your method straightforward It is also very repeatable. Good stuff 👍
For a "hobby" workshop that is a superb result. Nice one!
Wow! Timely! I'm just been trying to figure out how to cut an internal spline in the clutch hub of a speedway mororbike. Your broaching method should do the trick!
Glad I could help, just as long as that is the type of spline you need
Being AM and CEE my two favorite channels I consider learning Australian language :)
I'm so looking forward to hobby-shop-affordable metal 3D-printing :)
Iro3D has a DIY metal powder printer for cast parts
It seems you will have accumulated error with that indexing technique, but for only 6 splines probably good enough. I made an indexing plate that attached to the end of the shaft. It has the same number of holes as splines, and uses pins in the holes resting on an adjustable parallel. I learned that from JoePie, he has a great old video on it.
Thought pretty much the same, first "Uh, that'll add up" and then "Oh well, probably still fine" :D
"A thing of beauty and a joy that will last forever"....
The well placed gear box pun was superb.
A simple solution to a complex problem......well done....
That is amazing! I’m a hobby machinist and I also love 3D printing. This will solve so many problems with trying to print 3D parts to use in the machinist shop made tooling. Herringbone 3D printed gear teeth are reasonably strong the weak point was always the one or two key way(s). I like the simplified profile of your 6 way shaft. I had over complicated the ways of my design for years and turned it into unitanium with to many stress risers. Thanks for sharing.
This is a brilliant solution I doubt I'd ever think of.
Internal splines always made me think of a shaper. You probably could make the gingery shaper pretty easily
There's nothing easy about that thing
A hand operated vertical slotter would be pretty cool. And relatively simple to make.
Hi
I just followed your instructions, no on and off settings But the beeps are ON So happy for your advice.
Thankyou so much 👍👍👍
Stay safe
Regards
Greg
Simple but genius. I have never seen this method before.
Brilliant. Thanks for sharing 👍 🇬🇧
Love your videos man huge inspiration, just got my first mill home today!
Really? Fantastic! You will have lots of fun and frustration. The frustration is part of the fun. What size did you get?
@@lawriealush-jaggs1473 I'm not sure how to "size" it but the table is roughly 850x250mm and it weighs enough to be terrifying when swinging on an engine crane.
Nice one mate. Now you just have to buy ALL the tooling😁.
That’s pretty awesome! My biggest challenge would be figuring out all the angles on the dividing head to get it right. Then there’s all the setup work multiple times to do the shaft. Talk about all the places you can make a mistake and scrap your shaft! Wow!
Wow, thank you for showing this to me
I love your videos. The limits is always our imagination.
Great work. Before seing this video I was think of doing something similar for a restoration project. Now I am possitive that it is the way to go.
Clever work there!
Great video hadnt actually consider this as an option thank you for your insight on this problem
Thinking outside the box. Well done.
thats a good idea. I will certainly steal it the next time i do a simple spline
Very nice! Looked like a great fit there.
love looking forward to your Saturday vid. keep up the good work
Nicely done.
Great video, really liked this project and tutorial.
Thanks for sharing.
Love what you do with the tools you have. Great work
Hi again
Well just went to the shed, switched on and no beeping. Not to worry.
Regards
Time stamps, always a nice bonus in a vid
Awesome workaround for hobby shops indeed
genius thought process. impressed.
Cool idea!
Cheeky devil! The indexibg bushing is heaving genius!
On my old 1966 Norton the keys are used to set the correct phase relationship, and the main load is taken by a tapered shaft.
Lol, I just posted a video on my channel where I cut splines on the shaper using more or less the same indexing metode.
Excellent. I think that's a win!
Excellent job. Those splines look very professionally made. Might be a hobby shop, but you do very good work.
Very clever approach.
Absolutely brilliant 👍
Loving the upload schedule! Keep it up! Been really enjoying your channel
Thankyou, I'm glad you enjoy them
Brilliant!
Great timing on this video!
Excellent Video.
Keeo it up Sir.
Gday, great job as always mate, cheers
You are a very capable person
Well that worked out very well indeed 👏👏
Great video
Amazing results.
Very good insight, I have very limited tool on my machine shop, this will help me
Tama ka dyan.. Hindi kayang imaintain ng spring ang initial na bilis ng flywheel.. Gaya ng laruan. Titigil at titigil din ang pag-ikot ng flywheel.. Number 1 na kalaban ng perpetual motion is friction a bearing
Nice Method!
Nice job!
I think you're selling yourself short. That'll work just fine for nearly any application, including high-torque ones. Remember, you now have essentially multiple keys that are part of the original material, distributing the load across both surfaces. Torque away, that thing is not going anywhere.
Ever consider laying a trapper behind the outer edge of your spine shaft? You could theoretically use it as a rotary broach. You could then theoretically cut your internal spline part with much closer tolerances and produce more aesthetic parts.
Nice work dude ☺☺
Well done. Never be told, no!
Nice job
Beautiful!
Nice one.
Straight splines surface contacts are the sides and the smaller diameter. That's why you need a spline shaft cutter, which is around 50$ in china.
You can buy spline shaft by the meter, as they are used a lot in agricultural world.
I know some are, but the splines in the mill and drill press are purely side fitting, and it will be the same profile that I replicate in the gearbox. I did look at getting some off the shelf spline stock, but it was more than I really needed. Cheers
Nice technique
Great job!
Well that wasw ridiculously easy once you made the flypress and the broach and the broach sleeve and then had the chuck indexed in just right ...and of course the end mill you needed....yup very easy indeed 🤣🤔
Quite the journey
thankyou for sharing....very cool
Genius!
You clever bugger!👍👍👍
very impressive!
I believe you’ll want to harden the spline shaft and mating hub spline surface or use a stronger steel like shaft material.
Neither the change gears or the keyed or splined shafts are hardened on my L6 Harrison lathe and it was made in 1964 and there is no slop/wear in any of them. For this sort of application the shafts and splined outer components will be fine without hardening.
Given the scope of what I need it for, I don't think a hardening process is necessary. I think it could possibly cause me issues to due to the part warping or shrinking as a I heat treat it, and I really don't know if you can grind internal splines. So atleast for the moment moment will leave it unhardened.
Hardening might be counter productive. If you want contact simultaneously on multiple splines, you'll need a little wear. I think.
Great idea! It would not occur to me since I have a shaper.
I could go for a shaper one of these days.
nice job !
cheers ben.
I wrote an article in Engineering in miniature around ten years ago on this subject.
The error here is that you should have taken multiple cuts between the keys to create a faceted curved surface for increased contact.
You think so? Im just going off machinery handbook to replicate the spline pattern and method that they hand laid out. Do you think it would make a big difference to the final result? Not doubting juat curious Cheers
@@artisanmakes There are multiple types of splines used in industry. I do not disrespect your efforts, I like them. That said, splines threads have a percentage of fit rating. The method I wrote up used the same principle as yours but between four splines was around six hundred divisions each. This was then blued and hand scraped in, a lot of work you may think but the end result is an extremely positive drive with very little movement.
Blimey. I've done a bit of hand scraping before but I could not imagine doing that to a spline shaft. That's fantastic. Cheers
Smart
Thanks for sharing
Cheers
Nailed it.
Teaming up with Rustinox this week?
I work in a place before, make anything spline, tooth, gear, anything to do with power transmission. In or out. Anything. Buy me a few beers and I spill any secret to making them any method.
Nice!
respect 🙌🏻
All blindingly obvious... Now I've seen how you did it :-D
Nice Work , especially on the inside Splines and It definitely seems usable. But on the splines i know, the inside of the bore and the "valleys" on the shaft are the locating Features, and not the splines themselves, they are Just for transmitting the Torque. But machining the inside Diameter of the splines to a preise measurement is quite Tricky i think.
This is part of why most are hobbed in production, cutting with a rotary tool like and end mill can only give flat valleys
@@bengrogan9710 A profiled side and face cutter mounted on an arbor in a horizontal mill will produce the curved profile in the root of the spline very easily.
It will depend on what type of spline type it is. Some use both the root and the sides for contact, but some use the side flanks only. My mill and drill press spindle for example use only the side flats and neither the inside or outside flats make contact. How much of a difference it makes, I am not sure but for the project I have in the works the spline I made here will work.
Seems like a perfect excuse to build a 4th axis for the CNC mill :) Rotate the shaft while moving the cutter horizontally to create a cylindrical profile between the spline teeth.
Either that or make the hole match the flat root profile. Mill a hexagonal hole into the gear before broaching the internal teeth, and make a hexagonal broach guide to go with it. That would also index the cut without any accumulated error.
ive made some internal splines before , we have a old vertical shaper with a rotary bed that works like a standard dividing head , we have a 4 jaw chuck mounted on it so we can dial up jobs that require splines or multiple keys however the downfall of the machine is the tooling we have for it , all self made even before i started working there so theyre not perfectly square as well as when i need to grind HSS tools for the odd internal gear here and there
Technically, your mill isn't too far from being a hobber as is. You would just need to make an arbor for the hob, a lot of change gears, and a way to adjust the shaft center distances for the helical milling attachment, and extremely precise control over both your feedrate and spindle speed (ideally the table leadscrew and spindle are mechanically linked, but CNC works on the aforementioned method). So yeah, basically a hobber already!
arguably if you have an accurate rotary vice you can use an arbor saw to give a psuedo hobbing solution with a profile cutting saw
@@bengrogan9710 I have seen involute gear teeth cut in a similar way to how you describe using only a slitting saw as the cutting tool. It requires a lot of indexes of the dividing head and the correct offset up and down on the Z axis but it does work.
Awesome video and work. Can you explain the math behind knowing where to cut the external splines on the shaft? How to figure out how far to move the table off center and such?
No fancy math needed. Tooth width = broach width. Center the cutter over the workpiece and then move half the cutter diameter plus half the tooth width.
nice!!!
Rustinox just did a video on this too.
7:45 i think it can handle way more than you think
Can you show the fly portion of the press in action?
Very smart. I think you could call yourself a machinist.
awesome video. How would you make an internal ring gear like for a planetary gearbox?
gear skiving is common. There are also gear broaching machines
Good jobe 🎉
I'd look at Clickspring's recent series on gear cutters for ideas on how to cut the correct profile on your splined shaft. You could probably buy premade cutters or make your own.
Male spline: what would have be the results had you start the cut in the center of the material?
How can you tell that the quill part is die cast? At scale, would it make sense to make that part out of a custom aluminium extrusion, with finish machining?
Excellent and creative work as usual, by the way.
The inside spline, as well as the keyway has that classic die cast texture. Extruded looks different