I enjoyed the explanation on using dynamic brakes. Following a few of the rules on using dynamic brakes helps slow down an ops session and makes it more realistic.
I’m an engineer trainee about to mark up. I like dynamics, but only on DP the couple times I’ve ran one and also- conventionally, but as long as it’s some AC motors. Some of our DC engines don’t hold back much tonnage as well as an AC motor. Some of them widebodies are STOUT. I’ll use one or the other, stretched or bunched. Sometimes I’ll just grab 10 pounds in notch 4 and drag em on down… but overall, dynamics are the easiest to use and are the first go-to, minus throttle manipulation.
Congratulations on becoming an engineer. It sure beats pounding rocks all day. If I could give one piece of advice from the 20+ years I’ve been running is that to always be mindful of what your slack is doing and trying to control it to keep it at a minimum, avoiding hard run-outs or run-ins. And also to always, Operate, Evaluate and then communicate in that order. If you are focused on communication with a dispatcher and not concentrating on operating the train you can get into trouble real quick. Good luck!
@@SeaboardCentralThanks for that- that’s absolutely understood. I found out about slack on a DP train. When that DP came over the hill it was stuck in notch 8… me being new I got out of it some to lessen the impact. Oh man. It was rough. I’ve since found that planning ahead has absolutely been a priority. Appreciate that tidbit of advice!
Also, had a NS Dash 9 as my leader once. A 9700 series with another DC motor. Oh my, when #2 traction motor went out - I didn’t realize it would kill the dynos on the lead. Almost got put into suppression coming down a steep hill. Fun times. Lots of things I’ve learned training.
Interesting to hear that NS's dyno rules are just slightly different than BNSF, but they are pretty much the same idea in terms of dyno rated axles per locomotive.
They have changed and updated after all the AC units started showing up. One interesting thing about how NS calculates powered axles. The BNSF ES44C4 units are considered a six axle locomotive where a BNSF SD70ACe is considered a 9 axle locomotive.
Thanks! Yes, back then it was an option when ordering a new unit. Plus, most were just the standard dynamic brakes which aren’t really effective at speeds below 18 mph.
Hey Tim I work the Pittsburgh "keystone" division out of conway I've noticed the rules on dynamic amps have been overlooked for the mountain when coming into Altoona our grade is pretty nasty we usually use minimum service and 6-8 dynamic for about 10/12 miles with a running release at the bottom. Ile be at the Macon rpm this coming year with my freelance stuff again would love to see some seaboard central stuff there (other than what I brought last year) -Strattyn
We have a 16 mile grade on our district that often requires air to keep the speed under control. Still NS-1 rules apply system wide. Be sure to check out the next video on TE vs HP. You’ll probably like it.
Next step in this enlightening discussion is how to simulate DB in a decoder-equipped loco(s). Most modern sound decoders have one or more function keys to activate, increase. decrease and stop dynamics. Believe you have standardized on Loks. So what and when are your key inputs on a DCC throttle as you enter the downward helix and then come out into the yard? How do you use dynamics on the Proto making the same trip down? Any needed modifications to the above if locos in a consist have different levels of dynamic capability? So great to get insights from a real, live RR engineer.
Thanks! The downside of dynamics in the model is that it is not a variable sound, just on/off and when they are on, they are maxed out. I have my dynamic brakes assigned to F7. For units that aren’t equipped with dynamics I have Flange Squeal assigned to F7. On the ProtoThrottle I have F7 assigned to the top right button next to the LED screen. To use dynamics on the throttle I will set the speed, activate drive hold, then press the F7. The unit will automatically adjust the sound for dynamics. I only use the sound, I don’t use it to actually slow the train down. As far as different units in the same consist, no modifications needed. Just keep in mind if the consist has multiple units, rules dictate the number that can be in dynamic. For that reason, on the model I don’t operate consists that exceed the total amount I can use.
My question has nothing to do with dynamics brakes. Was noticing on your locos you have speed recorders on several axles. Is that prototype practice, never noticed it on the real locos? Good informative video, appreciate it.
Yes, speed recorders are generally associated with the number two axle (I believe). Although some newer units use a radar device located right behind the front pilot aimed at the ground.
Thanks for the video and info, Tim. My largest Locos are SD40-2s with no D/Bs (ex. MoPac) Would these be about the max. size/HP Loco where no DB is acceptable, please? Looking forward to the next weeks edition, thank you.
Thanks! Prior to the 1990s, dynamic brakes were an option when new units were purchased. A number of railroads whose lines were relatively flat compared to others opted not to spend the extra money to have their units equipped with them. Any train can be operated without dynamics, you just have to use air brakes. Dynamic brakes offer a way to reduce fuel consumption and increase train velocity which is why it became standard on all the third and fourth generation units.
question tim... does NS have any locos that are equipped with non-aligning couplers?... i was just reading an article about preventing jack knifing when a consist has a unit with non-aligning couplers
I apologize that this is not related to dynamic brakes. At the 1:26and 1:49 mark there is a 2 bay hopper car right after the loco's. I recently bought some Walters cars that are gray in color but need to be the color of you hopper. What was the original color? Did you paint the car? Just trying to determine how to achieve the same coloration(look). Thanks for any tips?
That is an Athearn ACF 2-bay former GTW car that was patched and weathered. I also have an Athearn ACF 2-bay ACFX car that was given a similar treatment. Both cars were light gray. I added weather including rust effects to get the color. I used both oils and pan pastels sealed with Dullcoat.
Great video Tim, now my question is if there is a restriction on the amount of units on the head end that can use dynamic brakes, what about a dpu in the middle or end, and is there a different factor into determining that?
Thanks! It depends on how the DP unit is set up. I will have a video on DP operations at the end of the month. But to answer your question, for the most part, DP units only provide traction, whereas a manned pusher unit can assist with dynamic braking.
From what we use on the keystone division we use our head end and dp locomotives for tractive and dynamic effort. You can only have a difference of 1 between dp and head end 3 leaders and 2 dp units or so on.
Yes, but if you have an engine with normal dynos and one with extended range your normal engine will stop working before the extended does. Obviously you loose braking power as this happens so you'd still have to apply air.
Yes, different units with different dynamics will work together but you still have to make sure not to exceed the limit of dynamics online at one time. For example, a consist of an ES44AC/SD70/SD40-2 would have a total of 23 axles which would work for a unit train but not a regular merchandise freight. So even though all three could be in power pulling, one of the trailing units would have the dynamic brake cut out.
@@TheSantaFeGuy *Obviously you loose braking power as this happens so you'd still have to apply air* there was a crew back in the mid 90s that was pulling their coal train down a power plant lead, using the dynos to hold the train back... at some point, according to the investigation transcripts, the lead locomotive "lost its dynamic braking"... their train picked up speed and derailed in a curve... obviously the company went after the crew for "failure to properly control their train"... the crew ended up beatin' the rap on appeal... but i do wonder if their situation was the same as you described
Solid bulk commodity trains are safer in that you don’t have empty cars scattered in between loaded cars. Empty cars near the front of a train can be pushed off the tracks by the force of the following loaded cars when too much dynamic brake force is present on the front of the train.
I enjoyed the explanation on using dynamic brakes. Following a few of the rules on using dynamic brakes helps slow down an ops session and makes it more realistic.
Thanks Tom! Next up is tractive effort versus horsepower and then distributed power operations.
Love the "Dyno" sounds on these models. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Chris!
Really informative. Good info on dynamic braking! Did not realize using it outside of controlling a train on the downgrade.
Thanks! Glad you found it interesting
I’m an engineer trainee about to mark up. I like dynamics, but only on DP the couple times I’ve ran one and also- conventionally, but as long as it’s some AC motors. Some of our DC engines don’t hold back much tonnage as well as an AC motor. Some of them widebodies are STOUT. I’ll use one or the other, stretched or bunched. Sometimes I’ll just grab 10 pounds in notch 4 and drag em on down… but overall, dynamics are the easiest to use and are the first go-to, minus throttle manipulation.
Congratulations on becoming an engineer. It sure beats pounding rocks all day. If I could give one piece of advice from the 20+ years I’ve been running is that to always be mindful of what your slack is doing and trying to control it to keep it at a minimum, avoiding hard run-outs or run-ins. And also to always, Operate, Evaluate and then communicate in that order. If you are focused on communication with a dispatcher and not concentrating on operating the train you can get into trouble real quick. Good luck!
@@SeaboardCentralThanks for that- that’s absolutely understood. I found out about slack on a DP train. When that DP came over the hill it was stuck in notch 8… me being new I got out of it some to lessen the impact. Oh man. It was rough. I’ve since found that planning ahead has absolutely been a priority. Appreciate that tidbit of advice!
Also, had a NS Dash 9 as my leader once. A 9700 series with another DC motor. Oh my, when #2 traction motor went out - I didn’t realize it would kill the dynos on the lead. Almost got put into suppression coming down a steep hill. Fun times. Lots of things I’ve learned training.
Interesting to hear that NS's dyno rules are just slightly different than BNSF, but they are pretty much the same idea in terms of dyno rated axles per locomotive.
They have changed and updated after all the AC units started showing up. One interesting thing about how NS calculates powered axles. The BNSF ES44C4 units are considered a six axle locomotive where a BNSF SD70ACe is considered a 9 axle locomotive.
Nice info, thanks for sharing. Dave
Thanks for watching!
Learned a lot. Thanks for sharing. The tractive effort video sounds good, gave you a sub and high five
Thanks! I appreciate it. Stay tuned. It is going to be packed with info.
Very interesting.
Thanks!
Great video. Thanks for the info.
Thanks!
thanks Tim,,great vid.
Thanks for watching!
Nice Video
Thanks!
Love this information. Keep it coming.
Thanks!
Great episode! Very informative.
Thanks!
Awesome to know this information. Keep it coming.
Thanks!
Awesome!!! Great video sir! - Gary
Thanks!
Us railroaders love dynamic brakes. The sucky part is the jerk between motors going in and out of them lol
😂
Great informative video
Thanks!
"Heavy-duty high-capacity dynamic brake"
AKA, we're running out of terms to mean "better".
This is true
Good video, Tim, I know some railroads (The Rock and the TA&G) didn't even order dynamic brakes
Thanks! Yes, back then it was an option when ordering a new unit. Plus, most were just the standard dynamic brakes which aren’t really effective at speeds below 18 mph.
Hey Tim I work the Pittsburgh "keystone" division out of conway I've noticed the rules on dynamic amps have been overlooked for the mountain when coming into Altoona our grade is pretty nasty we usually use minimum service and 6-8 dynamic for about 10/12 miles with a running release at the bottom. Ile be at the Macon rpm this coming year with my freelance stuff again would love to see some seaboard central stuff there (other than what I brought last year) -Strattyn
We have a 16 mile grade on our district that often requires air to keep the speed under control. Still NS-1 rules apply system wide. Be sure to check out the next video on TE vs HP. You’ll probably like it.
Great video Tim, are dynamic brakes used on dpu units? Cheers John.
Thanks! Depends on how they are set up but most of the time no. They are just used in power
Next step in this enlightening discussion is how to simulate DB in a decoder-equipped loco(s). Most modern sound decoders have one or more function keys to activate, increase. decrease and stop dynamics. Believe you have standardized on Loks. So what and when are your key inputs on a DCC throttle as you enter the downward helix and then come out into the yard? How do you use dynamics on the Proto making the same trip down? Any needed modifications to the above if locos in a consist have different levels of dynamic capability? So great to get insights from a real, live RR engineer.
Thanks! The downside of dynamics in the model is that it is not a variable sound, just on/off and when they are on, they are maxed out. I have my dynamic brakes assigned to F7. For units that aren’t equipped with dynamics I have Flange Squeal assigned to F7. On the ProtoThrottle I have F7 assigned to the top right button next to the LED screen. To use dynamics on the throttle I will set the speed, activate drive hold, then press the F7. The unit will automatically adjust the sound for dynamics. I only use the sound, I don’t use it to actually slow the train down. As far as different units in the same consist, no modifications needed. Just keep in mind if the consist has multiple units, rules dictate the number that can be in dynamic. For that reason, on the model I don’t operate consists that exceed the total amount I can use.
@@SeaboardCentral Thanks.
My question has nothing to do with dynamics brakes. Was noticing on your locos you have speed recorders on several axles. Is that prototype practice, never noticed it on the real locos? Good informative video, appreciate it.
Yes, speed recorders are generally associated with the number two axle (I believe). Although some newer units use a radar device located right behind the front pilot aimed at the ground.
Thanks for the video and info, Tim. My largest Locos are SD40-2s with no D/Bs (ex. MoPac) Would these be about the max. size/HP Loco where no DB is acceptable, please? Looking forward to the next weeks edition, thank you.
Thanks! Prior to the 1990s, dynamic brakes were an option when new units were purchased. A number of railroads whose lines were relatively flat compared to others opted not to spend the extra money to have their units equipped with them. Any train can be operated without dynamics, you just have to use air brakes. Dynamic brakes offer a way to reduce fuel consumption and increase train velocity which is why it became standard on all the third and fourth generation units.
question tim... does NS have any locos that are equipped with non-aligning couplers?... i was just reading an article about preventing jack knifing when a consist has a unit with non-aligning couplers
The end cab switchers were the only ones I knew of and I think they have all been retired.
I apologize that this is not related to dynamic brakes. At the 1:26and 1:49 mark there is a 2 bay hopper car right after the loco's. I recently bought some Walters cars that are gray in color but need to be the color of you hopper. What was the original color? Did you paint the car? Just trying to determine how to achieve the same coloration(look). Thanks for any tips?
That is an Athearn ACF 2-bay former GTW car that was patched and weathered. I also have an Athearn ACF 2-bay ACFX car that was given a similar treatment. Both cars were light gray. I added weather including rust effects to get the color. I used both oils and pan pastels sealed with Dullcoat.
Great video Tim, now my question is if there is a restriction on the amount of units on the head end that can use dynamic brakes, what about a dpu in the middle or end, and is there a different factor into determining that?
Thanks! It depends on how the DP unit is set up. I will have a video on DP operations at the end of the month. But to answer your question, for the most part, DP units only provide traction, whereas a manned pusher unit can assist with dynamic braking.
@@SeaboardCentral thanks for answering!
From what we use on the keystone division we use our head end and dp locomotives for tractive and dynamic effort. You can only have a difference of 1 between dp and head end 3 leaders and 2 dp units or so on.
@@Killbuck.Southern.Railroad thanks for the info
Can you MU engines together, in a train, that have different dynamic systems?
Yes, but if you have an engine with normal dynos and one with extended range your normal engine will stop working before the extended does. Obviously you loose braking power as this happens so you'd still have to apply air.
Yes, different units with different dynamics will work together but you still have to make sure not to exceed the limit of dynamics online at one time. For example, a consist of an ES44AC/SD70/SD40-2 would have a total of 23 axles which would work for a unit train but not a regular merchandise freight. So even though all three could be in power pulling, one of the trailing units would have the dynamic brake cut out.
@@TheSantaFeGuy
*Obviously you loose braking power as this happens so you'd still have to apply air*
there was a crew back in the mid 90s that was pulling their coal train down a power plant lead, using the dynos to hold the train back... at some point, according to the investigation transcripts, the lead locomotive "lost its dynamic braking"... their train picked up speed and derailed in a curve... obviously the company went after the crew for "failure to properly control their train"... the crew ended up beatin' the rap on appeal... but i do wonder if their situation was the same as you described
Tim, would you be will to teach my as a student to learn how a locomotive operates? Im writing software to run locomotives on mu layout.
Keep watching. I’ll provide more videos on operations.
Why the axle difference between GM and unit trains?
Solid bulk commodity trains are safer in that you don’t have empty cars scattered in between loaded cars. Empty cars near the front of a train can be pushed off the tracks by the force of the following loaded cars when too much dynamic brake force is present on the front of the train.