The King of Chronographs: Zenith El Primero Design & History Review
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2019
- A Review of the Zenith El Primero. The Discussion looks at the History of the Movement, the Development of the Design through the Sixties until present day and also looks at the more experimental pieces, like the Defy. It is amazing to see how the name "El Primero" has managed to create such diverse series pieces over the decades while still managing to keep its character the same.
#zenithelprimero #zenithdefy #rolexdaytona
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LOL the “blooper reel” at the end was unexpected and hilarious.
Now you know what hell I go through ;) This one was so good that it couldn't be passed up. And I promise to keep them coming in the future (especially if they're so easy to crop in)
IDGuy I am still laughing. Thanks for adding that at the end. Perfect touch about reality.
@Christopher Schuster Hey now! That's just mean ;)
Yes, ‘69, love...😏
The Omega Speedmaster and Daytona get all the attention, but I’ll have an El Primero, instead, preferably in 38mm with the tri-color sundials. It’s truly the finest chronograph movement ever made, IMHO.
The smaller sized pieces look so charming... I'd love to get my hands on a 38mm piece. But the G381 has stolen my heart! What a gem of a watch! I think Aurel Bachs owns one and discussed it on a Mr. Porter episode. Thanks for the comment as always, Chi-Town!
Well said, Zenith is the king of chronograph 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
I have nothing but respect for Zenith. And I somewhat understand the appeal of the classic designs, how they progressed over the years and the purist approach. But to me, I can think of nothing more pleasing than having their Defy 1/100. I’m truly speechless at how this piece makes me feel. It marks a pinnacle of achievement in watchmaking that is the first of its kind (correct me if I’m wrong). A true marvel of engineering and execution.
I really love the A384 model, it is very distinctive but nothing excessive in terms of the design. It is very versatile. It is the best watch to represent all the history of Zenith to me
Another amazing video ID Guy! I have always loved Zenith in general and the El Primero in particular. I hope to add one to my collection one day.
It was a lot of fun to make. Thank you as always, Blueshirt! I really want to get my hands on a 69' 38mm piece one day... the size feels so enticing...
The ‘El Primo’ is a chronograph of choice that I would love to add to the collection one day. There are some beautiful models available. The A384 Revival edition with it’s beautiful panda dial has no cluttering or clashing of sub dials that some may complain of in the A386 styled models. If you’re a fan of a ‘70s cushion case, I think that is a great looking watch.
I personally like the tri-colour design of the A386, it is immediately recognisable as an El Primero. The Heritage 146 with its wonderfully simple blue dial would surely be popular at the moment too and the Grande Class has a real charm too with its Arabic numerals.
As you have explained so well, from a horological aspect the El Primero movement was / is a fantastic achievement that deserves all of the recognition it gets. That is what many people want to buy into, the heritage and the story behind the movement, despite the fact that they are getting an amazing timepiece.
With those... with those spu.... with those sps.... with those spsiff.... with these specifics out of the way yet another great video my friend! ✊
Loved the bloopers by the way!
Hahahaha! Hey! With Those sp...sp..spe... I fully agree with you. This watch would be a killer piece in your collection. Chuck the Kermit and throw in some flash with red, blue, charcoal and slate (the 38mm '69 piece calls to me) I think this would go so well with your 50's Seamaster ;)
I agree. All the other Zenith watches are... 'ugly' the A384 is the bomb!
LMAO you finally dropped that F bomb! For real tho, the El Primero is a masterpiece, it deserves more praise, and with the Defy lab its INSANE what Zenith can do when it really tries!
There is at least one F-bomb dropped with every recording (for real) hahaha! But this was too good to pass up. And Zenith really does deserve more attention. It has such a killer history. Thanks for the comment Dave!
Love the blooper in the end!! Thought it was a bug or editing error at first
It was too good not to pass up. Most of the time the mistakes don't happen so close together... but this one was particularly bad haha! I think it'll become a common thing at the end of videos in the future ;)
Absolutely glorious ending!
I own a 70's Movado Datron with the El Primero movement.
Wonderful, insightful upload. Thanks for sharing.
The blooper was too good to not share ;) Thank you so much for watching and the support, man. All greatly appreciated.
Really well explained - even I got it 😁. Great video 👍 Specifically love the end 😂
Normally I redo audio's that are overly technical (because sometimes they get too much) but the end blooper sums up how I was feeling at that point (an eight minute audio dump of information in one recording can get quite hairy) Thanks as always Mark!
@Mark Michael Hahaha! Oh, behind the scenes is a completely different story ;)
Always comprehensive and well produced as usual. Thank you
It's such a pleasure sharing it Maraden. Thank you so much for watching!
Make IDguy Channel great again!
Thanks for this nice review of one of the most iconic chronographs ever. 👍👍👍
Love it. Such a pleasure Lou. I hope to continue bringing these out (and yes, the Reverso is the next video coming)
My El Primero Chronomaster Moon Phase is a favorite in my current collection. It’s the one watch I wear that gets consistent compliments. No one ever says anything about my Rolex, Omega, Bell & Ross, Heuer or the others I own...but the Zenith always draws positive attention.
absolutely spot on title🔥
I felt it was appropriate ;) They are some fantastic pieces that deserve all of the attention. Thanks for the comment, brother!
As a chrono fan boy, this a grail watch based on the movement alone. Great overview of the el primero!
Thank you ID Guy for the super informative videos you put out. They are always great and great research in showing us the many variants.
I started my watch collection journey in 2018 and I am happy to have gotten my 1st El Primero 38mm reissue this Sept.
I can't tell you how gorgeous it is in comparison to other watches. Zenith is soooooo underrated, just too underrated.
But if one is really passionate about time pieces. This 1 is definitely worth having and keeping in your collection!!!
Hope I can find an A384 soon!!!
I never noticed that with the star on the dial, but you are so right about that. The El Primero is a great watch that is often underrated. Also the finishing on these watches is excellent and the same as on models from much more expensive brands.
They are great value for money and offer so much history... choosing between this and the Speedmaster is quite tricky though! That would make for an excellent discussion one day. Thank you for the comment, Andreas!
@@ID-Guy True! But then there are those greedy for stars. I have a Speedy and still want an El Primero : )
By the way, my request for a great watch video based on tradition, history and features would be the JLC Memovox.
With those specifics out of the way (:D), I must say the early El Primeros are really beautiful, I wish they'd release it again in that case sometime in the future. Great history telling and analysis as always!
Loved the blooper. And keep your eyes open for the many reissues! They have re-released many of these older pieces with modern components (like the A384, A386 and G381) Thank you for the comment as always, Minonano!
Never been a Zenith fan, especially the Defy range, but you have convinced me to investigate further. As always a well researched and very informative balanced review...great work!
Some of the pieces are really worth looking at but as an Overseas Chronograph owner... you basically have all the basics covered ;) Thank you as always Vaughan!
I owned one, love it & is my favor among my other collections!
Fantastic video!! 🤩🤩
Thanks a million! It was a pleasure to make (the video wrote itself) Really appreciate the comment
Thank you for the excellent review, great stuff👏👍
The new original 1969 is on my shopping list for next year. Its the only chronograph i like, and i like it so much i want to buy it.
Another nice one brother!!
Excellent sure thank you very much you do a great job I love listening to you
I did not know any of this about the El Primero. Thanks
It has a sublime history! And thank you for the comment Reed. Glad you got a kick out of the blooper at the end ;)
Another genius presentation!
Thank you Robin. Damnit, that is so humbling... I love bringing these kinds of videos out
Brilliant
Thank you Sam. It was a pleasure to make!
I first went the route of the Concord Impresario Triple Calendar (El Primero 411 movement). Incredible value. Recently picked up the 38mm Tri Color. I love how underrated the EL Primero is, and how happy I am knowing i have the uncrowned King without the hyperbowl price point. Owning/appreciating the EL Primero is like being in a secret society of horology. I feel like the El Primero is the Led Zeppelin of Chronograph watches. Refined... mastered raw power, and not afraid to show it.
Lemania 5100, valjoux 7750, zenith El primero, Seiko 6139, all integrated chronographs
And they were all made around the same time, am I correct? Love learning about this stuff
I love the tricolour El Primero, it is just beautiful and a good value proposition on the used market. I love the history as well...but I still find myself torn between the Zenith and Speedy. Thank you for such an amazing review of the El Primero :)
If I had an option of either, I'd be finding myself a G381 ;) But really both pieces are sublime... They both have amazing histories... It's actually quite the conundrum to pick one! Thanks as always for the comment, brother. I'm glad you enjoy it!
Nice Video, but needs a correction: The FIRST EVER AUTOMATIC CHRONOGRAPH WAS and IS the SEIKO 6139. And it was First Totally Integrated Chrono, with Automatic Winding, column wheel AND a VERTICAL CLUTCH FOR THE CHRONO's Sweep Second Function. The Heuer was the FIRST MODULAR LAYERED CHRONO, WHILE THE EL PRIMERO HAD THE HIGHEST VPH OF ALL OF THEM-36000 VPH. And I know it was a Seiko because I personally received, as a gift from my Late Father who had just returned from Japan, a Seiko Chronograph back in February of 1969, while these two models mentioned here, the Heuer and Zenith's were announced several months later. I still had the remnants of that Seiko chrono trying to get parts for it and rebuild it. And after that I got more Chronos from many brands, including 19 Speedmasters, 9 more Seikos, two Primeros and one Espada from Zenith, an Ebel E-type, and two Movado Datrons, all of them with El Primero movement. My sight is now put on that Seiko Tentagraph that I consider the HEIR to the El Primero coz it has 36000 VPH, Column Wheel Mechanism, Automatic Winding, Date AND A VERTICAL CLUTCH on a ZARATSKY-POLISHED-DLC- TITANIUM CASE. And the Seiko is also HAND MADE!!!!
Oh and love the blooper at the end hahaha!@
Well done. Such a great watch and love how you shared differing models.
However, we definitively have different tastes. In reference to your favorite El Primero that is probably the one I like the least.
I’d never, ever buy a gold watch or even rose gold anything.
That’s what makes watches great - so many options for so many differing tastes and preferences.
Speaking of chronographs, have you heard of Seiko's 50th and 55th anniversary chronographs? If so, what do you think of their designs?
Almost my first collecting spree was examples of the three contenders for the prize of first auto chrono. It was nice to see Bertnet’s January 1969 Seiko on Insta (surely removing any doubt that Seiko came in first 😱) but Zenith will always have my heart.
There's that Romance behind the El Primero that the others lack ;) It's another one of those quirky Cosmograph stories that had a fairytale ending. Thanks for the comment as always Lester!
I knew there were Seiko cases dated April 69. I must try and find bertnets old post on the Jan 69 one.....do you remember when he posted it?
tunokies Probably on his Instagram about 4-5 weeks ago.
Very educational in an interesting way! Keep up the good job.
The Zenith A384/386 are amazing of course, original and reissued, no doubt, but the king of the automatic chronograph is not the El Primero, it is the caliber 11 in collaboration with Jack Heuer and Willy Breitling. No famous pilots were wearing a Zénith, but some used an Autavia for instance..
And the king of the mechanical Manuel chronograph is the Valjoux 72: enicar Sherpa Graph, Universal Genève Compax, Rolex Daytona, and even a small limited série of the Navitimer !!
Really enjoyed the video as well as your others! Keep 'em coming, we watch fans enjoy video from knowledgeable individuals!
Looking to buy a Zenith El Premiro, but can't decide if I should buy the El Primero with a 400 movement of th e3600 movement, yes, there are 400 movement watches till around.
What's your opinion and why.
Thanks kindly!
The first automatic watch that was presented to the public WAS the El Primero.. in January 1969... Zenith unveiled its El Primero on 10 January 1969 at the Basel watch fair (sg.asiatatler.com/style/zenith-el-primero-50th-anniversary) ... Moreover, there were reports of this watch being presented publicly as early as late 1968. Production was more difficult for the El Primero, however, and Zenith was a small company in comparison to the other 2 competitors, which is why it was not the first to market.
And I thought you always spoke in flawless, flowing sentences! Hahaha. Your videos are superb sir. Thank you.
I thought my browser glitched in the end of the video, ahahahaha :)
Hahaha! It was just too good of a blooper to pass up (and I hope to bring others in if they're that clean - normally they never drag out so long)
I see IDGuy, I auto like and book mark to watch later
You're the man, Marcus. Thank you! There's a blooper at the end that you'll find entertaining ;)
Im sorry but the first automatic chronograph watch was released by Seiko in May of 1969, the 6139.
A full 4 months before Heuer did in August 1969.
So Seiko is the first.
...this just makes me want one all the more...i wish someone would explain the change in date-window position from 430 to 6. ...appears original case 38mm @ 430; 42mm @ 6...
I feel you, man... the G381 has me drooling... And the date window, I don't think there was any clear reason, just more symmetry (since the window works as a disc, the placement can really be anywhere on the dial) the 4 - 5 Position is just such a sweet spot with these pieces. Thanks for the comment James!
With the 38mm version, the bottom dial is too low to put a date there. It would hit the bottom dial and look too cluttered. With 42mm version, movement is the same size, (the center dial of watch is the same distance to center of tri-colour dials regardless of case size) thus allowing room for the date window at 6. They just add a larger diameter date wheel on the 42mm version, and change the numeral orientation. Beautiful watch, if you get it, you'll love it.
@@jaysikes4256 Very nicely said Jay, thank you!
my pleasure...thought this episode seemed particularly a labour of love...date at 6 also helps balance your abundance of star iconography, which i don't mind...while might prefer orig layout, need 42mm practicality...
I think I’m in love again.
Specifics Lol great stuff!
I have to say I’ve always wanted a vintage barrel case elprimero 👌🏻
Folks don't realise the battles that happen behind the scenes haha! Out of everyone here, you'd be able to grab one easily ;) Some of their reissues look like such class. Thank you for the comment as always Jimmy. I hope you're still enjoying every moment with your pieces
Zenith's El Primero is touted to be the first INTEGRATED and self winding chronograph, which they announced January of 1969 but only releasing to the market around October of that year.
Tag's however was indeed to launch hundreds of their own around March and April of 1969. That said theirs was a MODULAR chronograph.
If there is any contender to the "first" it would be Seiko, as there have been watches with production serials as early as March 1969, and even with dial references as early December of 1968 (though quite contested as such watches could have been franken watches).
Great review and great watches. Crazy that a EP can be bought new for not much more than a Speedster Professional and a quarter of the price of a double retail Daytona... I'm glad someone agrees about the counterbalance star!
What a cool ending!!
The Zenith El Primero is a great watch, but for some reason, it is hard to sell. Mainly people want their grail the Daytona. There was a time when Zenith made the movements for Rolex. With any Automatic Chronograph is very expensive to get serviced. It is very complicated watchmaking and not an easy watch to work on with so many parts it uses. thanks for the video, it was very interesting.
I won't lie... I've been drawn towards getting a Daytona as my first (possibly last) Modern Rolex one day... and thank you for the insight on servicing costs Scott! It makes a lot of sense and I should have added it into the discussion. I really appreciate your insightful comments
I much prefer the older dial arrangements. Of the newer models, I particularly like that special silver face Defy EP21, where the sub-dials do not infringe on each other. I just bought a vintage 59.6000.410. I greatly appreciate the elegance, combined with the EP movement, month-day-date windows, and easily-set lunar dial. But I guess that its lack of representation in media coverage means that not many feel the same way about it.
Was the lucky early bird, have 4 : ( El Primero de Luca, Rainbow St 18 Kt with matching strap, Rainbow Flyback in SS and Chronomaster Chronometre 18 Kt ) Nowadays a Zenith is not affordable anymore. My next purchase will be a Breitling Navitimer with B01 in 18 Kt ...
Great video. What is the reference number for the model at 10:12 in the video?! I can't seem to find it anywhere.
most excellent video. had my eye on the el primero for a while. now that the kids are out of uni and I'm not sending all my $$ to Penn State, 2020 might be the year. :)
You probably wrong at certain point. Zenith lost to heuer as the first one to release first automatic chrono movement, but zenith was the first one to release first automatic fully integrated chronograph movement.
Fully integrated means a lot in horrology since creating it is way too difficult than just putting some modul over existing watch movement. Correct me if im wrong. Thank you
Very nice overview of this icon from a design perspective. I would have however loved to hear you opine on the "Full Open" (ref 03.2153.400/78.C813) or the chronomaseter 2 (ref 95.3001.3600/69.C813). Both very original and striking open work dials. But as you said in this video you don t like skeletonization you may have already answered that one...
Funny thing asid, Zenith or Breitling/Heuer may had the first automatic chronograph, but the first one, which customers could actually BUY was Seiko
Thanks, your videos always make me appreciate my pieces even more! What do you think about the overlapping subdials, especially when the minute counter is overlapped by the hours? Isn't that a bit clumsy?
King of Chronographs if you take that date window off the dial..
From 7.52 you show some references in which the chrono minutes counter is obscured by the elapsed hour counter. My question is, can one accurately count the elapsed minutes from 16 mins onwards?
Thank you for the great video! Btw do you happen to have any reading recommendations on color theory or colors and their influence on customers in general?
I'm just wondering... didn't Hamilton also make a run at the first auto-chrono in the late 60s?
Yes, Hamilton was one of the 4 brands that collaborate to fight against Zenith.
@11.16 looks like the one I "have" to add one day. But the one I want has stepped lugs and bezel. Not sure of the reference(s), it's a Chronomaster.
Edit: it is this one 🤦🏽♂️
This one is a reference 03.1240.4001 Flyback Chronograph. They are stunning pieces (and I think they go for one hell of a price) ;) I need to look into this stepped piece you mentioned! Thank you as always for the comment Diego
@@ID-Guy actually it is this one, my apologies... I couldn't see the ever so small step on the lugs, from that picture. There is also a non-moonphase version (03. 1250. 4009). Lovely watches.
Thank you for your video and reply 🙏🏼
@@diegoog3654 It's a gorgeous piece. Thank you for sharing the non-moonphase (that's the one I'd pick from the pair)
@@ID-Guy there's also a non-flyback and a non-triple date (day of the month only) in that same case
What you think of the 146 version? Great video as always.
Is it COSC certified? If not, how accurate is it? Thanks.
The chronomaster is COSC certified.
If its not chronomaster, i am not sure. However, not all non-COSC certified watches are not COSC accurate. ETAs sometimes beat Rolex as timekeeping according to many reports I found.
Here I was thinking of selling my 42 mm tricolor, but this video got me thinking of not to!
The simplified el primero and the new line of defy might save zenith.
Agree completely on the two star dial and seconds hand. Too much. Add in the rotor and the buckle and it’s just overkill on an otherwise pretty incredible offering
The overusing of a symbol can get pretty kitschy. I think the Rotor star looks great and the one on the dial is a nice touch (but that is where it should end haha) Stunning series of watches though... the G381 has really caught my attention. Thank you for the comment, WC!
I prefer this over a Daytona.
El primero is pretty but no hacking, Seiko 6139 was a better watch overall
tengo dudas , sobre El primero rainbow model la corona parece tan fragil que se va a quebrar
How do u think about El Primero Cohiba!?
Beautiful, but will always be 3rd behind the Seiko 6138 & the Speedmaster for me. Excellent video as always, thank you 👍👍
Heuer Hamilton and Breitling made a sandwich, puting a chronometer module, on top of an automatic movement. I call it cheating....Zenith and Seiko made the real thing, an intergrated movement. Rolex never made any movement, Aegler and Zenith did.
roberto maas Rolex was never a watch maker. They started of with the idea of selling the brand. It’s even evident in the name which was carefully chosen to emulate a sense of luxury. Watch making was secondary. And for the sake of promoting the brand they started owning the makers of all of its components to advertise “in house movements”. Not that 90% of Rolex owners even now the word “movement” or value what goes into making it...
Can anyone here share with me whether a 1970s el primero still good? Thanks
If you want he quality of a Daytona without the price of hype, by an El Premero.
Overlapping subdials.....lovely but there is one problem, you can't read certain numbers, because there is another subdial placed over it. So what does an Industrial Designer has to say about that?
Not much apparently. Or when you really want to time something you use a chronograph app on your smartphone ? Precision to 1/100 's of a second and easily readable as well. Cost? 0 euro's
An El Primero? € 10.000,- or more. I don't get it. I really don't. On the other hand, it is heritage, it is history it is craftsmanship, it is 36.000bph, it is ....insane to buy one.....
Try to explain to your partner that you just bought a chronograph, but you can't actually read the dial, without a loupe, and by the way, you never time anything anyway.....try that and she wants something silly for the same amount......There you go. 2 x € 10.000,- for a watch you don't need and some compensation buy that doesn't make sense either. Good luck. I think you could have spend this kind of money for something better, for the both of you.
it is has been designed like that on purpose, zenith can easily make the subdials and printing smaller (like zenith daytonas). it's not a problem at all, just a design characteristic
The overlapping sub dials are purely used for aesthetics and identification. It does look visually cluttered at times, no doubt. But it has become a style they've stuck with (and a part of their DNA). And you're right, the majority wouldn't even use the watch to time a countdown with the chronograph. Then again, Some owners of GMT bezel watches call them "Dive Watches". This watch is for more of an enthusiast than the average consumer. I doubt any one would buy one of these on a whim without knowing that it was one of the worlds first automatic chronographs or a watch with a tremendous movement. But hey, resorting to a smartphone... who want's to do that? That's just not fun at all ;) Thanks for the comment Rene
Of course it is designed, and of course they could have fitted smaller subdials, but they decided to go for a fancy three color overlapping sub dial that can't be read all the time. So when you like a tool to time something, you better buy a stopwatch....
The only chronograph you will ever need.....but you have to guess if the lap time is 16:45 or 17:45....and nobody seems to care, because nobody uses this chronograph, ...as a chronograph.
Zenith not el primero A277! Please!!
What a stunner! I thought it was a Heuer Autavia at first. Thanks for the comment Tom!
IDGuy there is also a movado super sub sea version..
IDGuy i think it is the most beautiful chrono, bezel suits the dail
@@tomlucas4269 You might need to check out BP Air Command. They look pretty similar
No mechanical wristwatch is accurate to the millisecond. That's 1000th of a second.
No, No, NO ! Two stars on the dial it's perfect ! The star on the hand for the seconds is rightly what makes this chronograph more specific more again ! Please do not remove this star !
Last 10 seconds lmao
but it would have been lovely if it had been mechanical
We all love a good manual wind, but then there are a myriad of pieces to choose in that category at every price ;) Thanks for the comment, brother!
@@ID-Guy 👍🏻 thanks for a great watch content .... can you ... or will you ... or do you want to ... make a video of the homage watches from Chopard and B&R to me they have done quite a bit of borrowing from Royal Oaks and Nautilus .... same as Brietling superocean 44 made a rolex yacht master/explorer mock up ....😊 well that's just my humble opinion...
@@christofferpedersen3939 Zenith El Primero HW exists
@13:40 *two stars is just greedy*
Zenith El Segundo ?
Zenith El Primero was the first to be presented to the public: sg.asiatatler.com/style/zenith-el-primero-50th-anniversary
Ceramic Daytonas look really ugly, especially with the numerous lines of text, YUCK!!.. Zenith Daytonas have much better sub-dial placement, and the El Primero tri-colour kills them all.
It's nice seeing "Adventurous" Chronographs that incorporate a little bit of colour and flair. The problem with more simplistic watches is that their safety can make them very, very boring... I love the idea of combining all of these colours together with a chronograph. It really was a forward thinking approach. Thanks as always for the comment Watch Aficionado!
F91W is the best
I hate these squeezed in tiny date complication.
Yah bloopers unnecessary,... this isn't a cheap DVD.
_"1969 - what a number - what a year. Wars, peace, love, music . . . "_ - you forgot "me" . . . sheesh - I get no respect, I tells ya, no respect.
Lovely watch but that star reminds me of communism so I don't think I'd ever buy one.
Zenith have seen far too many changes across the past 5 decades that I would never want to buy anything from them because I don't see continuity in their identity. I do hope, however, that their revolutionary technology in the DEFY Inventor gets deployed across most of their watches resulting in much stronger brand equity. If IWC, Blancpain or even Ulysse Nardin had come up with this technology, I would buy a watch...but from Zenith at this point in time?....No!
no?
They have had a serious change in identity over the years, but their base models inspired by the sixties / seventies pieces look fantastic and their movements are extremely competent. But I agree that beyond that, the El Primero name has been put on many, many pieces. Thank you as always for the comment, A
@@ID-Guy Thank you for producing such hiqh quality content. Your channel is on par with the very best, such as Tim Mosso and Watchfinder & Co.!
@@user-wi9nn6dz8w That is so damn flattering (and humbling)... Wow. Best comment I've read this evening. Thank you man...
They have had the tri-colour since the beginning...
- Cosmograph has nothing to do with space exploration
- The title of this video is wrong: Longines 4974 is the king of chronos