Am a die hard whalers fan.. the fans where not the reason the whalers left.. it was peter karmanos.. he never ever truly planned to keep the team there. He made it almost impossible for us to buy season tickets.. because he took the very favorite 10-20-25 game packages away.. he elminated them.... the fan base is still very strong! Am part of the booster club which still is alive and strong.... we believe one day we will get a team back.. conn is a hockey state! We love our hockey.. we will never ever stop the efforts to get our team back... the governor, the mayor are all behind getting our team back. We just need to get the xl center fixed.. we are... just at a slow rate. Go WHALERS
Yeah. I’m a newer Carolina fan and it’s really sad to see what Karmanos did to your city... I’m hoping Hartford gets their team back (hopefully not by moving the Canes) and I hope that Hartford and Carolina fans won’t hate each other
AlextheRaven thank u buddy.. i have no hate personally towards carolina.. it was peter karmanos who i dont care for.. maybe a big rivial game when the whalers come back!
I've been waiting most anxiously for this video. Only God knows how much I miss the Whalers. They may not have been that good, but they were our team and it still hurts. We got screwed. Thanks for the support mate.
I bet you cried a river when my favorite team from my youth, the Atlanta Flames, moved to Calgary. Like hell you did. Quit your crying. The Whalers will never return.
@@bustercherry9643 Atlanta still has the Falcons, Braves and Hawks though, Hartford has nothing else in terms of professional sports, so of course the loss of the Whalers hurt them much more.
The PNC Arena was not ready until the 99-00 season. During the first 2 years, they played at Greensboro Coliseum, about 90 minutes drive west of Raleigh. Everyone in Greensboro knew their stay there was temporary, hence the low attendance in the first 2 years.
Yeah...he fails to mention that very important part of the story. Also he speaks like "corporate" is a bad thing. Corporations own the NHL...actually they own all of sports. Hence all of the PC bullcrap.
@@jasonpopielarczyk7511 I have lived in the Triad for over 20 years now and you are so right. Greensboro AND Winston-Salem are just wide spots in the road compared to all other pro sports cities. But GSO supported them pretty well If you asked me. I know I went to multiple games and I lived in WV at that time.
The "official" GBO numbers are lies. They reported tickets sold as attendance, not the fans through the turnstiles. That includes tickets the team "bought" for promotion - to give away to promote the team. It included all the pairs of tickets given away by Ford dealers for taking a test drive - a TEST DRIVE, not if they buy a car. The dealers literally couldn't give away the tickets. Reported actual attendance was about 3-4 thousand a game. Less than the AHL farm team that replaced them in Hartford. The reason Karmanos didn't have a new city before he screwed Hartford is he wanted to move to suburban Detroit. The Red Wings, owned by his childhood rival, Mike Ilitch, just laughed. By not having a new city lined up he could have the other owners pressure Ilitch. Also, he figured his friends in NY and Boston would help him, since he was sold the franchise, in part, because they supported him, knowing he was always planning to move the team. The Bruins and Rangers always viewed Connecticut as their territory and wanted the Whalers gone. Note: the condition of the Civic Center while being run by Madison Square Garden was purely coincidental. This was always about Karmanos' ego issues comparing himself with Ilitch. Any wonder why he sold the team LITERALLY months after Ilitch died?
i still dropped a hot dog in 1986 at the civic center that rolled down about 20 steps and a fat guy picked it up looked around to see if anyone was looking and took a big bite; same night they swept quebec in playoffs
@@ejectorseatreservation3869 Hartford will never get another team. The population is decreasing and they are right in the middle of 4 team. Bruins, Rangers, Islanders and Devils
Hartford would need to build a new arena, and I get their reluctance to do so absent a commitment from the NHL to locate/relocate a team and put it there
Still a Whalers fan. Would love to see them come Back. My family did the 4 game package for 4 of us. Saw the Howes, Hull, Keon. What a Shame. Still hurts. Bring back Brass Bonanza!
With the right ownership, bringing the Whalers back to Hartford would work out for several reasons. They would start with a fan base already set, it worked in Winnipeg. Today’s NHL has the salary cap and revenue sharing, which weren’t there in the 90s. Also, if it was going to be an expansion team, an expansion draft would have them bringing in quality hockey driving in more fans. Being between Boston and New York sets up natural rivalries that would boost ticket sales. I can go on and on with more reasons why this would work, and the more I think about the more it seems like the best option.
Steven Farnesi Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's never going to happen. The combination of no arena and small metropolitan market are hurdles that will be very difficult to overcome. Most NHL teams make their money these days from off ice revenues (local TV contracts, corporate sponsorships, etc). Hartford would become the smallest American NHL market and be at an immediate financial disadvantage from Day 1 compared to other NHL organizations. Also, who is going to foot the bill for a new $750M arena that would be a necessity to attract a team? With Seattle, Houston, Kansas City, and Quebec City who already have or will have NHL arenas ready and waiting as much better options, Hartford would not even be in consideration. There will be no further expansion for at least another decade and the number of current teams looking to relocate would choose to be in much larger metro areas.
Whodat whale I hope so. All NHL fans want to see the Whalers back in Hartford, myself included. However, the arena situation is an extremely difficult obstacle to overcome. You cant get $250 million in public funding to renovate the XL Center, so who is going to pay for a new $500-$700M million arena that will be required to attract a new team? The city of Hartford can't fund the arena and a new owner would want public funding to build a new arena before committing to moving there. I just don't see it happening regardless of the strong fan base in place. A Hartford relocation poses too many hurdles for an existing franchise when other options are ready immediately. Seattle will most likely get the next expansion franchise, so relocation would be the next option. No owner would choose Hartford over Houston, the 3rd largest market in the country with an NHL standard arena ready and waiting. Then you have Quebec City, who already have an ownership group in place to buy an existing team and relocate them to play in their new arena. Kansas City, a great sports town, has a metro size of 1 million more people than Hartford and also has an NHL ready arena to play in tomorrow if necessary. Without an arena, the conversation about a team in Hartford doesn't get very far. I hope I'm wrong, but new $700 million, 18,000 seat, state of the art, NHL arenas just don't fall out of the sky. The NHL would never approve a relocation of a team to Hartford for them to play in the XL Center unless it was on a temporary basis.
Nik S as of monday gov malloy is asking for 100 million to put into the xl center.. The state has a plan for a new stadium.. its beautiful buddy.. with uconn huskies hockey and basketball in the agreement.. the arena ( if gets the funding) will be nhl ready.. the CDRA , the company who will do the work , had a presentation of the new arena and said " the 250 million renovation will be just as good as a 500 mill , cause there gonna reuse the main pipes of the building.. there is nothing wrong with them... the gov and mayor are all behind this.. its the legislature that has to approve this.. there putting 40 million in it in the summer, they just redid the ice rink.. its litery brand new.. conn is a hockey state.. They will never get a expansion team... but relocation is the way to go... the state just got new license plates with the HARTFORD WHALERS logo on them.. the nhl had to approve this.. and they did.. they know we want the whalers back... we as fans didnt lose the whalers... the owner pk.. took them away over greed.. Bruins jeremy jacobs already said " he love the return of the WHALERS... he is all for it" Gotta keep the faith going buddy
Whodat whale Thats great news. Hope it all works out for you guys. I haven't been keeping up with the Hartford arena situation regularly, so i appreciate the feedback. I understand that the new capacity will be up to NHL standards, but will the renovations include luxury boxes? That's a requirement that would need to be fulfilled before the NHL approves a move. From what I read they were just adding seating and new concessions. Also, unless Bettman has changed his tune, he prefers putting teams in newer arenas than older, renovated ones. Seattle is bit different since they are doing a complete renovation of Key Arena which would essentially result in a new complex. A $100M renovation on a 40 year old facility might not be enough to attract a new tenant AND satiate the requirements of the NHL. I still think you guys are fighting an uphill battle, but my fingers are crossed. I grew up in New Jersey as a Devils fan but always had an affinity for the Whalers.
Bring back the Whalers and Nordiques! Teams like those are the NHL as it should be - hockey-loving town with lively, loyal fanbases, not weakly supported, artificial crap like Arizona or Florida. Now that we already got the Jets back and Minnesota now has the Wild after losing the North Stars, let's not give up hope that the Whalers and Nordiques will one day come back, too.
Another great post. As a New Jersey transplant living in Carolina; I adopted the Canes as my home team in 2005. I honestly resent the people who cling to and wear their Whalers sweaters to Hurricanes game. Especially while the team struggles for identity in an extremely diverse city. It's a city of transplants so many of the games have an equal amount of fans in the seats from the opposing teams city. I respect the heritage of Hartford. Loved Francis and Verbeek. But PNC arena needs to be a sea of RED!!! *off soapbox*
I’m from ct and I would love to see the Whalers come back. I think that there should at least be a pre season game in Hartford (probably Rangers vs Bruins), see what the attendance is like. There is going to be a game between former Whalers, like Bob Crawford. A lot of people stopped being hockey fans when the Whalers left. The only major problem is money. Yes we need a new rink but there is a money problem. If the NHL says that they are at least looking into Hartford, some body with money might step up.
I'd like to see them come back, too. But no one's going to build a new rink until we're guaranteed to get a team, and that's a long shot. I want to be optimistic about that, but seeing how Hartford had so much trouble just putting together the Yard Goats Stadium probably doesn't look appealing in the NHL's eyes.
Carolina played in Greensboro its first couple of seasons which is 60 miles down I-40 many fans were not going to do that for a weekday game, which kept the attendance down until the now PNC Arena was completed ,I do agree PK did not know how to build up interest for the team upon relocation
I knew I could come to THG's channel to find the real date that the Whalers moved to Carolina. I'm sure I misread this but the stupid auto-AGI on my search engine told me it was 74. I lost patience immediately and turned to Shannon. My fuckin hero
'97-'98 the canes were at Greensboro which was why attendance was lower. Also one day Karmanos in '97 at Hartford held a press conference with revenue stream graphs and charts and explained there is more than attendance revenue, that Hartford's location was squeezed by Rangers just south and Bruins just north for tv contract revenues.
Oh some other pieces of amazing history of this franchise was during its WHA days. If you recall the Soviet Red Army team was making its tour through the NHL destroying teams in the 70s. That same team played the Whalers in Hartford I believe in 76 or 77 and the Whalers beat them to the amazement of our NHL rivals in NY and Boston. The old Hartford Civic center held about 10,500 fans. The last two years in that arena they sold out almost every game and Gordie and his sons Mark and Marty were on the team. On a snowy night in 1978 the roof collapse destroying the arena. Thank God it was 3am otherwise the carnage would have been staggering. The Whalers had to play in Springfield MA for a few years until the new civic center was built. So Whalers fans made the 90 min trek to every game and sold out the 7000 arena for its last year in the WHA and first year in the NHL. The fan support was incredible. I also recall seeing the Whalers play the Indianapolis Racers the spring of 1978 in Springfield and a 17 year old skinny kid playing one of his first pro games was on the ice. His name was Wayne Gretzky.
as a life long Pens fan.. i loved the Whale!!! it was so wrong they moved... and aside from any 1 factor.. WINNING is what keeps a franchise.. if you are not an original 6 team.. you just cant lose as much as the whale did and expect to have the building filled.. this was ALL on the owner.. and the management who simply didn't field a winning team.. fans can only pay so much to watch losing hockey.. its a shame the NHL will keep propping up arizona... when Hartford is easily head and shoulders above them as far as love for the sport goes..
I'm 25 miles south of DC and the Capitals, but for the last two years I've attended games with my son-in-law in Carolina. Even though it's a multi-hour drive, the cost is so much less that it makes it a great value.
Attendance is steadily rising with the new ownership, so I think the Canes are here to stay. Besides, they're developing a new brand of family-friendly, fun hockey that's growing like crazy in the south.
The south is shaky for hockey with the exception of Tampa..Florida, Atlanta (moved), and Carolina only have crowds when they won. We have seen when Carolina loses...their attendance plummeted (this had nothing to do with Karmanos...). Sorry but family friendly is not true hockey...even the kids in New England know that. If you ever went to a Bruins Whalers game in Hartford you would understand this.
@@veronaraven3099 If your team is losing, attendance slumps. It’s like that anywhere, even in Boston. A quite a few years ago or so, some of the Bruins’ first round playoff games at the Garden didn’t even sell-out!
I don't know about Ottawa tickets, but there were only a few season they were a bad team, and note I am saying bad, in that there wasn't much in the way of prospects and a losing record. Like Ottawa from this year was really fun to watch, lots of great young talent, they may not have a winning record but were fun to watch. I can only think back to the Yashin years of them being bad, but they had Redden and Chara on the back (what a bad decision they made there), who were dynamite and Alfredsson and Spezza, and a few great goalies. They have largely been a fun team to watch for most of their history. Melnyk is largely considered to a shit owner because he wasn't willing to sign some players asking for raises and terms, so they went to other teams, Stone being the only one that I think is really worth being too critical about. I wish they had kept Bobby Ryan, he'd be a terrific mentor in Ottawa there.
Connecticut issue is this.the boston bruins and rangers.hartford still has more fans than new jersey and the islanders.nhl kept the jets in Arizona for how long now?
Brass bonanza! I recently saw the broadcast of the last game there (its on RUclips) and it’s very sad to see the fans and players reaction. There are horrible owners in every league, buy a team and wrench them out of the city to some place else.
You tube directed me back to this story as I was scrolling. I was one of those at that last game. After the game I sat there watching the ice crew melt the ice the last time while waiting for the traffic outside to clear out. I was probably one of the last dozen fans to leave that last game. When everyone did that standing ovation at the final minutes it was really emotional and touching moment. I have to be honest. There were seasons especially in approx. 1992 I think where the Whalers had a good playoff series and went to game 7 vs Montreal where one game there were 8000 fans. Never would that happen in Boston or N.Y. . It was good while it lasted.
You just described WHY I became a Whalers fan in 1997. Needed a team like them where Gordie played for and followed Burke over to Hartford where he made some quick trades and drafted Chris Pronger in the NHL draft. (And yes I traded 1 bad owner for another).
Just watching this. Great video. You really hit on all the points, especially picking up on the Patriots thing which most of CT really thought was happening. Couple of things today. 1. Xl Center is still servicable but they would need a new arena. I would put it out by where UConns football stadium is just outside of Hartford. 2. They should try to piggyback with Uconn and avoid the boston RSN. Instead go with SNY, which has an exclusive CT feed and no winter pro sports. 3. The best example of Whalers mismanagement was the trade tree turning Chris Pronger into Keith Primeau and Kevin Haller. This sums up why they struggled in a nutshell.
I'm late to the party, but one other reason for the Canes' struggles with drawing fans early was that TV and radio coverage was largely pre-empted by NC State basketball. Basically, unless you had a ticket to the game, you didn't get to watch or listen to the Canes play.
If the Whalers ever return they should market themselves as the New England Whalers and play game at Boston Arena and other venues as well as In Hartford to expand their fanbase throughout New England, they did this when they were in the WHA, and I feel if they were to do this now it would significantly expand their fan base and establish an even better rivalry with the Bruins.
I was born in CT in 89. I went to Culinary school in Vancouver in 07. 99% of the reasons why I fell in love with the Canucks was when the color scheme almost (other than grey) in 07-08 changed to the classic blue green and white. (Even though now I favor the flying V and skate logos) I now live in Massachusetts. I do wish this team was back. I don't see it but I damn well finally dropped $200 to the canes Retro Reverse jersey. I'll always be a die hard 'nucks fan. But, the Whalers Jersey is iconic. Glad you're in BC always have respected your outlook on hockey
I just found this video. The first two years they had bad attendance in Carolina because they didn't playing in Raleigh, because the arena wasn't finished. Much like in the NFL when the Titans, played in Memphis for a year or two, until Nashville finished their stadium. That wasn't mentioned in the video!
Their first couple of years in North Carolina, they were temporarily playing Greensboro (?), until their permanent arena in Raleigh was finished, right?
Uconn's success sank them also. Not picking Yzerman, or Lafontaine, instead of Turgeon also sank them. They would of had at least 1 or 2 cups in the 80's with either of those two guys with Dineen, Ferraro and Francis.
Why even quote the attendance for first 2 years? Sure, you mentioned new building construction but did you mention the home games were played 70 miles from new building? 70 miles bro!
Oh yeah, didn't they play in Greensboro? I forgot all about that. Still, centrally located from RDU, Charlotte, Winston-Salem etc....but well pointed out.
Stephen Long John Forslund likely won't be with the Canes within the next years as he's likely the heir apparent to Doc Emrick as the lead play by play announcer for NBC's NHL coverage.
I was a season ticket holder with the Whalers. They had a die hard following and great history with just terrible ownership. There were so many horrible twists of fate and unscrupulous characters that caused their move. When the Whalers were sold to Karmanos, Lowell Weiker was the gov of CT. Karmanos was not the highest bidder for the team. There was another CT based ownership group that promised to keep the team in CT longer and bid higher but somehow Karmanos was awarded the team. After Weiker’s term ended, John Rowland (who ended up going to jail for a crime later in his tenure) became Governor. A year or two later Lowell Weiker mysteriously showed up on the Compuware board which is the company owned by Karamanos! Yes we were literally sold out. Enter Robert Kraft and John Rowland. Kraft had no intention of moving the Patriots to CT but knew if he negotiated with CT he would use that as leverage to get Gillette Stadium. Roland hated hockey and was completely suckered by Kraft. He kept saying that it was fine to let the Whalers go because we’d get the Pats. So we were screwed every which way. People don’t realize that Whaler fans were some of the most passionate in the league and it ripped the heart out of that city and its fans. I saw the support the Whalers received in Hartford and it would be a great market for the NHL but Bettman will never allow it. I still to this day have a big hole in my heart for that team. I remember Gordie Howe walking around the arena after he retired just shaking fans hands and talking to fans. I remember sweeping Quebec in 1986 for our only NHL playoff series win and the OT game 7 loss to Montreal who ended up winning the cup. The crowds during those games were as loud as you’d ever hear in an arena. Good memories. I’ll always bleed green.
Yeah, that might be a problem, too, that they would be too close to existing franchises. There are certain areas around NHL franchises where they can object the relocation of a team there. For example, there were also rumors about a Hamilton, Ontario-based team, but the Maple Leafs (and maybe Buffalo as well) would certainly oppose this. Then, on the other hand, there are three teams in the New York area, two in the LA area, etc..
I think the major reason the Whalers left Hartford was Hartford's market size and location. Hartford was one of the smallest markets with a "big four" Pro sports teams. Another primary reason was that Hartford was 100 miles southwest of Boston and 100 miles northeast of New York. Hockey fans in Hartford and points to the north, east, and southeast were likely fans of the Boston Bruins. Hockey fans west, south, and southwest of Hartford were likely fans of one of the New York area's three NHL clubs most likely the New York Rangers. A secondary reason was the University Of Connecticut women's basketball team, which has a huge following in Connecticut.
Funny do you have all the draft previews because I have from 1987 to 2019 and find it very interesting looking back and remember reading about Bure before he got drafted
All you’ve said was absolutely true because I lived it in Hartford (1964-2011.). And to give you an idea, my old man and my friends fathers used to rotate trips from our home in Hartford to Springfield when they were the New England Whalers; long before coming to Hartford not to mention the NHL draft where they raped the Whaler franchise best players in the entry draft! At the end of the day, dual dirtbags, commissioner Gary Bettmen and Karmanos worked together to move the franchise (PERIOD). Nothing was going to keep the Whalers in Hartford, nor will a franchise ever come back to Hartford, because the NHL does not want a city in between New York and Boston siphoning fans and revenue from the Bruins, Rangers and Islanders. End of story. To this day I have not returned to an NHL game nor bought a single licensed trinket, even though I now live in Vegas and the Golden Knights have been incredibly successful. Screw them!
This could've been a 10 second long video: "Why did the Whalers leave Hartford? Because Peter Karmanos is a shitbag. The end." Karmanos was the Art Modell of the NHL, and in multiple ways. I live in Raleigh. Raleigh barely knows the Hurricanes exist unless they're winning, and if/when Dundon moves them to Houston? We'll not complain with nearly the same volume, or certainly duration, that Hartford has. I'm all for Hartford going back into the NHL. Hell, they can have the Hurricanes back provided you give Raleigh Major League Baseball in exchange somehow.
It's not gonna happen. Hartford is bankrupt and isn't going to commit to projects that primarily rely on public money (see the recent Dillon Stadium issue). There's no clear ownership and the return would require territory payments for 4 different teams (NYR, NYI, NJD, BOS). Hartford is like Hamilton, it's fun to go through the hypotheticals but ultimately it just isn't going to happen
There probably would be. Hartford would be encroaching on established fan bases of the other teams. Even though this is hypothetical, the fees would be built in to the franchise fee if not explicitly announced.
Funny enough the junior hockey team here in Hampton Roads is named the Whalers. Also there were talks of Karmanos moving the Whalers to Detroit to play at the Palace.
RJ Pugs lol that would be funny because now (even though numbers might not say so) Detroit looks like some nights Arizona is a huge success in terms of attendance.
Tiffany W The problem with Detroit is that the tickets are way too expensive for the new arena and most of those seats are corporate. The Joe had this problem too.
Panthers Hockey Metropolitan areas where the team is located determines its TV market. NYC in another market altogether and would have no affect on Hartford's TV revenue. Not to mention the NYC market already has 3 teams. The Hartford metropolitan area has about 1.2 million people, which would make it the smallest American TV market in the NHL.
dude you are still on about this? this is two videos later, im not here to debate you. Even shannon thinks the team would have a really good chance to make a go of it.
Panthers Hockey I have a sports management degree and have worked in business operations for 20 years, so this topic (franchise operations and relocation) is one that I have followed closely for that last 25+ years. Everyone wants a team back in Hartford, myself included. I just think it's silly to continue to have a conversation about it happening when its not realistic from a financial standpoint. Everyone thinks its a great idea on the surface, but nostalgia doesn't pay the bills. As Shannon stated, Hartford has never been revisited as a possible relocation destination. Theres a reason for that. If there was money to be made there, someone would have sniffed around already. No business owner will put a product in a location where the value of his organization would be significantly less than if i put it somewhere else.
Panthers Hockey Okay buddy. Whatever you say. Continue having visions of grandeur while the rest of us look at things objectively from a business economic standpoint. Hockey is a business, like any other, and its sole purpose is to make money. Keep that in mind.
The first couple of years the team were in Greensboro when they came to Carolina add in the fact a lot of people were not glued in on when games were going to happen because of no advertising was hardly done . once the team had an arena in raleigh then that is when attendance went up big time to the games because it was less of a drive to the games and they started advertising for games . North Carolina is a hockey market because a ton of people from up north have relocated to the triangle and lots of them are fans of their teams like boston , new york , toronto , philly , new jersey , and so on . and their families have kids who are becoming fans of the hurricanes . over generations the fandom for the hurricanes will grow even more because more people are moving to carolina because of jobs or the place itself .
I would LOVE to see the Whalers back in Hartford. And I want to hear "Brass Bonanza" blasting through the speakers every time they score a goal. Wouldn't it be great if Joel Quenneville became their coach?!!! What a great story that would be. By the way, I never thought of the Whalers as perennial doormats. They were at the top of the WHA, winning multiple AVCO Cups as the Boston and New England Whalers, so they had a cup-winning championship history/tradition of their own. We mustn't forget 1985-1986 NHL season when the Whalers came within a cat's whisker of making it to the Stanley Cup Finals, losing to the Montreal Canadiens and the greatest goalie of all time, Patrick Roy in OVERTIME, GAME 7. You don't get any closer to making it to the finals than that! And the fact that the Canadiens went on to win the finals in just 5 games suggests a pretty safe bet that if that overtime game 7 had gone a different way, that the Whalers would have won the Stanley Cup. And it was all because of Patrick Roy, who was in his prime. ONE MEASLY OVERTIME GOAL from the Stanley Cup. The very next season, the Whalers won the Adams Division. So don't be dissin' on the Whalers and calling them a bunch of losers. The Pittsburgh Penguins have the Whalers to thank for former-Whaler acquisitions who contributed to them winning consecutive Stanley Cups.
Your about half right about why they left. Yes Karmanos was a huge reason why they left however the root of the problem started before Karmanos even bought the team when in the early 90s the country was in a major recession and Hartfords number one industry was the insurance business which took a massive decline with major layoffs and companies starting to consolidate. The resulting lowered attendance was felt hard because the Whalers primary fan base was inner-city and local surrounding areas.
I’m a Chargers fan. Very familiar. Crappy teams, coaches. Made hard for fans to go to games. The Q looked like a visiting stadium most of the time. He wanted to “turn the page” on SD. I totally can feel Hartford’s pain. I’m a Kings fan but kinda liked the Whalers. #BringBackTheWhale
Just to help out Karmanos a little but also hurt him at the same time, the first 2 years of Carolina hockey was played at a much smaller venue in Greensboro NC which was only holding 11,000 people on average at the time while the PNC Arena (REX Center or previously know as RBC Center) was being build in Raleigh, very poor planning on his part for sure! I am a die hard Canes fan and I personally would love to see Hartford come back to the league but moving Carolina isn’t the answer. Florida Panthers to either Quebec City and NY Islanders to Hartford or visa versa. I think seeing what I missed on growing up would be an awesome and historical move back to the present day!
You are so right. I really hope that this happens. I’m from a small town in CT, and all people talk about is the Whalers. That’s the only thing that we are somewhat known for. We have the Patriots but that’s the whole New England. If the Whalers came back to Hartford, I would have the season passes and go to every game. I love hockey, and I really hope they come back. Thanks so much for making this video.
The main thing about that first two years of the Hurricanes was the team played in Greensboro which is a full 2 hours away from Raleigh. Who's going to drive 2 hours to see a team that won't play in your home city for 2 years? And who's going to pay to go to games when the team is moving away from your city in 2 years? It was bad. Raleigh has been a good home to the Hurricanes, a better one than Karmanos deserves. It's going to be good to see things continue going positively as Dundon continues to improve fan experience and the team gets better too.
As a Rangers fan,I miss the whalers myself.The Rangers going to Hartford was almost a home game,for the Rangers,but the whalers were competitive in some years.
I grew up in Raleigh in the 2000's and only knew them as our Carolina Hurricanes. I was very confused when someone told me they were a different team before lol
I was so pissed that Hartford moved I stopped watching hockey atleast 15 years. I live in Vegas now so I’m fully back into hockey! I only started watching again because of the Kings around 2011. My first hockey game was the Whalers at the Civic Center in 86. I was a junior Whaler lol.
Just watched this video just after watching the one about the Quebec Nordiques... Now, I have a question: from memory, the Winnipeg Jets have the exact same building they had when the left many years ago... They agree that it's "too small", but it's better to have a small building that is full than to have a bigger one empty... hence the fact that even if the Quebec Nordiques would still be in the old Colisé, they would still draw more people than MANY other NHL teams...
No, the Jets do not play in the same arena - the old Winnipeg Arena was demolished in 2006, the new Jets play at MTS Centre, which was opened in 2004. It is indeed rather small by NHL standards, "only" seating about 15k, but Winnipeg is a hockey-loving town, so it is of course always well-filled and they still have a better attendance than some teams with bigger arenas.
I remember they had a bad deal with Sports Channel and the media didn’t help either. UCONN Huskies stole all the sports coverage in the Hartford Courant and radio. The Whalers got no respect . It was frustrating. Most people in CT are either Rangers or Bruins fans. It was hard to find Whaler fans and jokes usually followed. I think they love minor leagues and supporting New York and Boston when it comes to NHL. That final season we had to pool together with other fans to buy complete season ticket packages to support the team, it wasn’t just corporations. It’d be nice to c them return but not sure the people care anymore.
Yeah being on SC new england was a problem. It didn't get coverage for half the state. Growing up in Fairfield county CT, the richest part of CT, and I could see the Rangers, Islanders and even Devils.... UConn got Tv in Fairfield county and it made all the difference.
Carolina can go pound salt. I liked it because it was 100 miles from Boston and I could see the Penguins a couple of times a year. The NHL lost some of their soul when the Whale left.
The real reason , besides the new arena proposal, was that the economy in CT was down and so was attendance. They needed an average of 13,000 a game to stay afloat and were only averaging 11,500 or so. I' m a Rangers/ Pens guy now. I was a Rangers fan ( never really stopped but the Whalers became #1) before the NHL Whalers and returned when they left. I was born in Pittsburgh but my father left Westinghouse in Pitt when I was 3 and went to Pratt & Whitney.
I lived in Raleigh when the Canes came in. Even interviewed for an office job (pay was shit). I didn't think they'd last more than 4 years there. Then they actually won a cup. Bravo for the Canes. They are an entertaining team to watch in recent years and are one I root for, but have been a Pens fan since 1991. The fan base there is all about College football/basketball. I'm a little surprised Hockey lasted, though attendance is sub par. Maybe Seattle should be the Whalers. Fitting name and colors, but I'm wondering how they are going to go w/a color scheme with Vancouver so close by? All the Seattle teams have similar colors + the Canucks. The names they floated were all bad. I had a few good ones, but doubt they were considered. The Seattle Wave (where the fan wave gained notoriety....plus near the water/ocean. The Seattle Sound (maybe too much like the Sounders...but double meaning). Snowcaps. I hope they don't chose something stupid like the Totems. These days something more fitting might be the Seattle Junkies or SJW's
Zednix 55 it has to be Norm green because they improved the Arena and he often talked with fans and acted like he was going to stay in Minnesota and they he completely stabbed them in the back when moving to Dallas.
Three Detroiters at this time owned NHL teams. Ilitch of course owned the Wings. Karmanos owned Whalers/Hurricanes and Bill Davidson owned the Lightning. The last two really did not have their hearts in those NHL teams and would have rather had owned the Red Wings. Since they couldn't, they got choice #2 and while both would get their Stanley Cups, there was not that kind of love for those teams from their owners.
Bring back the Nordiques and the Whalers, then put a new team in Seattle! Its time the NHL acknowledged traditional interest in the game as well as trying to generate new.
They I believe would have won the 1986 cup if not for that Claude Lemieux goal. One goal could have put them against Calgary and I think they would have won it then.
I'm from Connecticut and the problem now with ever bringing a team to Hartford is that it's in Boston's market and the Bruins will fight it. Back when the Whalers cam to the NHL the Bruins couldn't fight it though they did make them change their name from New England Whalers (when they were WHA) to Hartford Whalers as the Bruins had the territorial rights. Now it would be different. Boston could fight and prob block Hartford from bringing another team which sucks.
If I were the Bruins’ owner, I wouldn’t fight it. If NY and LA/So.CAL can have 2 teams in every sport, there’s nothing wrong with it. Again, Mr. Jacobs have been an absentee owner for the most part, so what does he care? He owns an Original Six Franchise, so he’s going to make $$$ regardless.
Am a die hard whalers fan.. the fans where not the reason the whalers left.. it was peter karmanos.. he never ever truly planned to keep the team there. He made it almost impossible for us to buy season tickets.. because he took the very favorite 10-20-25 game packages away.. he elminated them.... the fan base is still very strong! Am part of the booster club which still is alive and strong.... we believe one day we will get a team back.. conn is a hockey state! We love our hockey.. we will never ever stop the efforts to get our team back... the governor, the mayor are all behind getting our team back. We just need to get the xl center fixed.. we are... just at a slow rate.
Go WHALERS
The main reason Hartford will never get its team back---the place is a shithole.
Buster Cherry your wrong. But thats your opinion
Steve Wk thank u buddy.. been waiting 20 years.. ill NEVER lose hope/faith... the whalers should be in the nhl .. thank u again
Yeah. I’m a newer Carolina fan and it’s really sad to see what Karmanos did to your city... I’m hoping Hartford gets their team back (hopefully not by moving the Canes) and I hope that Hartford and Carolina fans won’t hate each other
AlextheRaven thank u buddy.. i have no hate personally towards carolina.. it was peter karmanos who i dont care for.. maybe a big rivial game when the whalers come back!
I've been waiting most anxiously for this video. Only God knows how much I miss the Whalers. They may not have been that good, but they were our team and it still hurts. We got screwed. Thanks for the support mate.
I bet you cried a river when my favorite team from my youth, the Atlanta Flames, moved to Calgary. Like hell you did. Quit your crying. The Whalers will never return.
Buster Cherry lol what is wrong with you
+Buster what about your second chance in ATL? That also flopped HARD! Despite having Heatley and Ilya. 0.o
Atlanta is not a hockey town like LA is not a football town.
@@bustercherry9643 Atlanta still has the Falcons, Braves and Hawks though, Hartford has nothing else in terms of professional sports, so of course the loss of the Whalers hurt them much more.
The PNC Arena was not ready until the 99-00 season. During the first 2 years, they played at Greensboro Coliseum, about 90 minutes drive west of Raleigh. Everyone in Greensboro knew their stay there was temporary, hence the low attendance in the first 2 years.
Yeah...he fails to mention that very important part of the story. Also he speaks like "corporate" is a bad thing. Corporations own the NHL...actually they own all of sports. Hence all of the PC bullcrap.
I went to GBO for some games. People dont realize that the GBO arena is SMALL.
@@jasonpopielarczyk7511 I have lived in the Triad for over 20 years now and you are so right. Greensboro AND Winston-Salem are just wide spots in the road compared to all other pro sports cities. But GSO supported them pretty well If you asked me. I know I went to multiple games and I lived in WV at that time.
The "official" GBO numbers are lies. They reported tickets sold as attendance, not the fans through the turnstiles. That includes tickets the team "bought" for promotion - to give away to promote the team. It included all the pairs of tickets given away by Ford dealers for taking a test drive - a TEST DRIVE, not if they buy a car. The dealers literally couldn't give away the tickets. Reported actual attendance was about 3-4 thousand a game. Less than the AHL farm team that replaced them in Hartford.
The reason Karmanos didn't have a new city before he screwed Hartford is he wanted to move to suburban Detroit. The Red Wings, owned by his childhood rival, Mike Ilitch, just laughed. By not having a new city lined up he could have the other owners pressure Ilitch. Also, he figured his friends in NY and Boston would help him, since he was sold the franchise, in part, because they supported him, knowing he was always planning to move the team. The Bruins and Rangers always viewed Connecticut as their territory and wanted the Whalers gone. Note: the condition of the Civic Center while being run by Madison Square Garden was purely coincidental.
This was always about Karmanos' ego issues comparing himself with Ilitch. Any wonder why he sold the team LITERALLY months after Ilitch died?
@@kwpowell0412 lol what?
Who else loves this channel..
One of the best channels on RUclips bar none
I do , l wish I had all that hockey merch he has like the jerseys
I love it no filler, straight to the point, love it , love it.
i still dropped a hot dog in 1986 at the civic center that rolled down about 20 steps and a fat guy picked it up looked around to see if anyone was looking and took a big bite; same night they swept quebec in playoffs
I know that guy!! He's from Waterbury.
Lier
@@ejectorseatreservation3869 Hartford will never get another team. The population is decreasing and they are right in the middle of 4 team. Bruins, Rangers, Islanders and Devils
@@willisapril You mean Devils, and obviously not Nets, who are as basketball team! ;) XD
@@freakyfornash You are correct!!! meant Devils
It's a shame the NHL is never going back to Hartford because they deserve to have the Whalers back and because they got screwed by Karmanos.
Rip
Hartford would need to build a new arena, and I get their reluctance to do so absent a commitment from the NHL to locate/relocate a team and put it there
@@devilsadvocacy They don't even want to build a new arena for the Wolfpack.
@@devilsadvocacy I grew up near Hartford. The arena is ancient (15635 for hockey...).
Still miss the Whalers
Johnny Canuck We all do Johnny. Still missed the Whalers
No you're not
Fans - IT IS Not The Fans foult - That Teams are moving ! Blaime The Weather !
What do you miss? The losing?
@@bigblue162 bud you probably a sabers fan.
Yes! This is the video I've been waiting for! I was too young at the time to really understand why my favorite team went away!
The first 2 seasons after the move to NC, the Canes had to play in Greensboro...90 minutes from Raleigh. Just an FYI.
Still a Whalers fan. Would love to see them come Back. My family did the 4 game package for 4 of us. Saw the Howes, Hull, Keon. What a Shame. Still hurts. Bring back Brass Bonanza!
With the right ownership, bringing the Whalers back to Hartford would work out for several reasons. They would start with a fan base already set, it worked in Winnipeg. Today’s NHL has the salary cap and revenue sharing, which weren’t there in the 90s. Also, if it was going to be an expansion team, an expansion draft would have them bringing in quality hockey driving in more fans. Being between Boston and New York sets up natural rivalries that would boost ticket sales. I can go on and on with more reasons why this would work, and the more I think about the more it seems like the best option.
Steven Farnesi Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's never going to happen. The combination of no arena and small metropolitan market are hurdles that will be very difficult to overcome. Most NHL teams make their money these days from off ice revenues (local TV contracts, corporate sponsorships, etc). Hartford would become the smallest American NHL market and be at an immediate financial disadvantage from Day 1 compared to other NHL organizations. Also, who is going to foot the bill for a new $750M arena that would be a necessity to attract a team? With Seattle, Houston, Kansas City, and Quebec City who already have or will have NHL arenas ready and waiting as much better options, Hartford would not even be in consideration. There will be no further expansion for at least another decade and the number of current teams looking to relocate would choose to be in much larger metro areas.
Steven Farnesi they can come back... the fanbase is strong as ever buddy. Am part of the booster club.. we will get our whalers BACK
Whodat whale I hope so. All NHL fans want to see the Whalers back in Hartford, myself included. However, the arena situation is an extremely difficult obstacle to overcome. You cant get $250 million in public funding to renovate the XL Center, so who is going to pay for a new $500-$700M million arena that will be required to attract a new team? The city of Hartford can't fund the arena and a new owner would want public funding to build a new arena before committing to moving there. I just don't see it happening regardless of the strong fan base in place.
A Hartford relocation poses too many hurdles for an existing franchise when other options are ready immediately. Seattle will most likely get the next expansion franchise, so relocation would be the next option. No owner would choose Hartford over Houston, the 3rd largest market in the country with an NHL standard arena ready and waiting. Then you have Quebec City, who already have an ownership group in place to buy an existing team and relocate them to play in their new arena. Kansas City, a great sports town, has a metro size of 1 million more people than Hartford and also has an NHL ready arena to play in tomorrow if necessary. Without an arena, the conversation about a team in Hartford doesn't get very far. I hope I'm wrong, but new $700 million, 18,000 seat, state of the art, NHL arenas just don't fall out of the sky. The NHL would never approve a relocation of a team to Hartford for them to play in the XL Center unless it was on a temporary basis.
Nik S as of monday gov malloy is asking for 100 million to put into the xl center..
The state has a plan for a new stadium.. its beautiful buddy.. with uconn huskies hockey and basketball in the agreement.. the arena ( if gets the funding) will be nhl ready.. the CDRA , the company who will do the work , had a presentation of the new arena and said " the 250 million renovation will be just as good as a 500 mill , cause there gonna reuse the main pipes of the building.. there is nothing wrong with them... the gov and mayor are all behind this.. its the legislature that has to approve this.. there putting 40 million in it in the summer, they just redid the ice rink.. its litery brand new.. conn is a hockey state..
They will never get a expansion team... but relocation is the way to go... the state just got new license plates with the HARTFORD WHALERS logo on them.. the nhl had to approve this.. and they did.. they know we want the whalers back... we as fans didnt lose the whalers... the owner pk.. took them away over greed.. Bruins jeremy jacobs already said " he love the return of the WHALERS... he is all for it"
Gotta keep the faith going buddy
Whodat whale Thats great news. Hope it all works out for you guys. I haven't been keeping up with the Hartford arena situation regularly, so i appreciate the feedback. I understand that the new capacity will be up to NHL standards, but will the renovations include luxury boxes? That's a requirement that would need to be fulfilled before the NHL approves a move. From what I read they were just adding seating and new concessions. Also, unless Bettman has changed his tune, he prefers putting teams in newer arenas than older, renovated ones. Seattle is bit different since they are doing a complete renovation of Key Arena which would essentially result in a new complex. A $100M renovation on a 40 year old facility might not be enough to attract a new tenant AND satiate the requirements of the NHL. I still think you guys are fighting an uphill battle, but my fingers are crossed. I grew up in New Jersey as a Devils fan but always had an affinity for the Whalers.
Bring back the Whalers and Nordiques! Teams like those are the NHL as it should be - hockey-loving town with lively, loyal fanbases, not weakly supported, artificial crap like Arizona or Florida. Now that we already got the Jets back and Minnesota now has the Wild after losing the North Stars, let's not give up hope that the Whalers and Nordiques will one day come back, too.
Move Florida to hardford. Sorry but did you see how empty that building looked tonight .
Ahh it’s normal. Only sold out for the playoffs lol
Brandon that if the even make the playoffs and lose. They haven’t done anything since the rats in 1996.
I moved from Hartford to south Florida so no freaking way.
I think FL will go to Quebec City
Is rather move the Coyotes of the Hurricanes to Hartford. There had been some success for the NHL in FL.
Hartford Whalers have a special place in my heart. Francis & Pronger. Northern Ontario REPRESENT
Another great post. As a New Jersey transplant living in Carolina; I adopted the Canes as my home team in 2005. I honestly resent the people who cling to and wear their Whalers sweaters to Hurricanes game. Especially while the team struggles for identity in an extremely diverse city. It's a city of transplants so many of the games have an equal amount of fans in the seats from the opposing teams city. I respect the heritage of Hartford. Loved Francis and Verbeek. But PNC arena needs to be a sea of RED!!! *off soapbox*
You could always move back to New Jersey.
We're dealing with a similar situation in Ottawa with Eugene Cheapnyk.
I'm a Penguins fan.. I truly miss the Whalers and Quebec..
I could listen to this dudes voice all day. This is great.
I’m from ct and I would love to see the Whalers come back. I think that there should at least be a pre season game in Hartford (probably Rangers vs Bruins), see what the attendance is like. There is going to be a game between former Whalers, like Bob Crawford. A lot of people stopped being hockey fans when the Whalers left. The only major problem is money. Yes we need a new rink but there is a money problem. If the NHL says that they are at least looking into Hartford, some body with money might step up.
Matthew Schoen sell out easy
I'd like to see them come back, too. But no one's going to build a new rink until we're guaranteed to get a team, and that's a long shot. I want to be optimistic about that, but seeing how Hartford had so much trouble just putting together the Yard Goats Stadium probably doesn't look appealing in the NHL's eyes.
master of procrastination agreed
Bob Crawford man owns every fucking rink here lol
In a state with over a million millionaires, cant see why money cant be found.
Carolina played in Greensboro its first couple of seasons which is 60 miles down I-40 many fans were not going to do that for a weekday game, which kept the attendance down until the now PNC Arena was completed ,I do agree PK did not know how to build up interest for the team upon relocation
I knew I could come to THG's channel to find the real date that the Whalers moved to Carolina. I'm sure I misread this but the stupid auto-AGI on my search engine told me it was 74. I lost patience immediately and turned to Shannon. My fuckin hero
'97-'98 the canes were at Greensboro which was why attendance was lower. Also one day Karmanos in '97 at Hartford held a press conference with revenue stream graphs and charts and explained there is more than attendance revenue, that Hartford's location was squeezed by Rangers just south and Bruins just north for tv contract revenues.
Great content as always man, thanks for the in-depth explanation of why my favorite sweater is in the "vintage" section of the NHL shop
Oh some other pieces of amazing history of this franchise was during its WHA days. If you recall the Soviet Red Army team was making its tour through the NHL destroying teams in the 70s. That same team played the Whalers in Hartford I believe in 76 or 77 and the Whalers beat them to the amazement of our NHL rivals in NY and Boston. The old Hartford Civic center held about 10,500 fans. The last two years in that arena they sold out almost every game and Gordie and his sons Mark and Marty were on the team. On a snowy night in 1978 the roof collapse destroying the arena. Thank God it was 3am otherwise the carnage would have been staggering. The Whalers had to play in Springfield MA for a few years until the new civic center was built. So Whalers fans made the 90 min trek to every game and sold out the 7000 arena for its last year in the WHA and first year in the NHL. The fan support was incredible. I also recall seeing the Whalers play the Indianapolis Racers the spring of 1978 in Springfield and a 17 year old skinny kid playing one of his first pro games was on the ice. His name was Wayne Gretzky.
as a life long Pens fan.. i loved the Whale!!!
it was so wrong they moved...
and aside from any 1 factor.. WINNING is what keeps a franchise.. if you are not an original 6 team.. you just cant lose as much as the whale did and expect to have the building filled.. this was ALL on the owner.. and the management who simply didn't field a winning team.. fans can only pay so much to watch losing hockey..
its a shame the NHL will keep propping up arizona... when Hartford is easily head and shoulders above them as far as love for the sport goes..
I'm 25 miles south of DC and the Capitals, but for the last two years I've attended games with my son-in-law in Carolina. Even though it's a multi-hour drive, the cost is so much less that it makes it a great value.
The Caps have sold out entire seasons ever since the second season Ovetchin was here.
Attendance is steadily rising with the new ownership, so I think the Canes are here to stay. Besides, they're developing a new brand of family-friendly, fun hockey that's growing like crazy in the south.
The south is shaky for hockey with the exception of Tampa..Florida, Atlanta (moved), and Carolina only have crowds when they won. We have seen when Carolina loses...their attendance plummeted (this had nothing to do with Karmanos...). Sorry but family friendly is not true hockey...even the kids in New England know that. If you ever went to a Bruins Whalers game in Hartford you would understand this.
@@veronaraven3099 If your team is losing, attendance slumps. It’s like that anywhere, even in Boston. A quite a few years ago or so, some of the Bruins’ first round playoff games at the Garden didn’t even sell-out!
@@veronaraven3099 Nashville, Dallas, DC, St. Louis?
Sounds a lot like Melnyk and the Sens
I don't know about Ottawa tickets, but there were only a few season they were a bad team, and note I am saying bad, in that there wasn't much in the way of prospects and a losing record. Like Ottawa from this year was really fun to watch, lots of great young talent, they may not have a winning record but were fun to watch. I can only think back to the Yashin years of them being bad, but they had Redden and Chara on the back (what a bad decision they made there), who were dynamite and Alfredsson and Spezza, and a few great goalies. They have largely been a fun team to watch for most of their history. Melnyk is largely considered to a shit owner because he wasn't willing to sign some players asking for raises and terms, so they went to other teams, Stone being the only one that I think is really worth being too critical about. I wish they had kept Bobby Ryan, he'd be a terrific mentor in Ottawa there.
Connecticut issue is this.the boston bruins and rangers.hartford still has more fans than new jersey and the islanders.nhl kept the jets in Arizona for how long now?
Brass bonanza! I recently saw the broadcast of the last game there (its on RUclips) and it’s very sad to see the fans and players reaction. There are horrible owners in every league, buy a team and wrench them out of the city to some place else.
You tube directed me back to this story as I was scrolling. I was one of those at that last game. After the game I sat there watching the ice crew melt the ice the last time while waiting for the traffic outside to clear out. I was probably one of the last dozen fans to leave that last game. When everyone did that standing ovation at the final minutes it was really emotional and touching moment. I have to be honest. There were seasons especially in approx. 1992 I think where the Whalers had a good playoff series and went to game 7 vs Montreal where one game there were 8000 fans. Never would that happen in Boston or N.Y. . It was good while it lasted.
You just described WHY I became a Whalers fan in 1997. Needed a team like them where Gordie played for and followed Burke over to Hartford where he made some quick trades and drafted Chris Pronger in the NHL draft. (And yes I traded 1 bad owner for another).
Bring back the Whale!
Just watching this. Great video. You really hit on all the points, especially picking up on the Patriots thing which most of CT really thought was happening.
Couple of things today. 1. Xl Center is still servicable but they would need a new arena. I would put it out by where UConns football stadium is just outside of Hartford. 2. They should try to piggyback with Uconn and avoid the boston RSN. Instead go with SNY, which has an exclusive CT feed and no winter pro sports. 3. The best example of Whalers mismanagement was the trade tree turning Chris Pronger into Keith Primeau and Kevin Haller. This sums up why they struggled in a nutshell.
I'm late to the party, but one other reason for the Canes' struggles with drawing fans early was that TV and radio coverage was largely pre-empted by NC State basketball. Basically, unless you had a ticket to the game, you didn't get to watch or listen to the Canes play.
If the Whalers ever return they should market themselves as the New England Whalers and play game at Boston Arena and other venues as well as In Hartford to expand their fanbase throughout New England, they did this when they were in the WHA, and I feel if they were to do this now it would significantly expand their fan base and establish an even better rivalry with the Bruins.
Actually they need to get SW Connecticut involved. As UConn has proved they want to support local teams and have the money to do it.
I was born in CT in 89.
I went to Culinary school in Vancouver in 07.
99% of the reasons why I fell in love with the Canucks was when the color scheme almost (other than grey) in 07-08 changed to the classic blue green and white. (Even though now I favor the flying V and skate logos) I now live in Massachusetts. I do wish this team was back. I don't see it but I damn well finally dropped $200 to the canes Retro Reverse jersey. I'll always be a die hard 'nucks fan. But, the Whalers Jersey is iconic.
Glad you're in BC always have respected your outlook on hockey
I just found this video. The first two years they had bad attendance in Carolina because they didn't playing in Raleigh, because the arena wasn't finished. Much like in the NFL when the Titans, played in Memphis for a year or two, until Nashville finished their stadium. That wasn't mentioned in the video!
Their first couple of years in North Carolina, they were temporarily playing Greensboro (?), until their permanent arena in Raleigh was finished, right?
Correct.
Uconn's success sank them also. Not picking Yzerman, or Lafontaine, instead of Turgeon also sank them. They would of had at least 1 or 2 cups in the 80's with either of those two guys with Dineen, Ferraro and Francis.
Why even quote the attendance for first 2 years? Sure, you mentioned new building construction but did you mention the home games were played 70 miles from new building? 70 miles bro!
Oh yeah, didn't they play in Greensboro? I forgot all about that. Still, centrally located from RDU, Charlotte, Winston-Salem etc....but well pointed out.
Wtf..... The nhl gave Hartford a hockey team ?...and the city's population is 125.000 ...wtf......
The Canes at least kept the horn which is one of the best in the league. They should bring back Brass Bonanza. And don't forget John Forslund.
Tampa Bay Fan They brought back Brass Bonanza last Tuesday with a new Whalers shirt sold in the arena store same day.
NickVolcom They should bring it back full time.
What do you mean don’t forget JOHN Forslund
Stephen Long He was the last broadcaster of the Whalers and he is still with the organization today.
Stephen Long John Forslund likely won't be with the Canes within the next years as he's likely the heir apparent to Doc Emrick as the lead play by play announcer for NBC's NHL coverage.
They had the best name in the NHL
I was a season ticket holder with the Whalers. They had a die hard following and great history with just terrible ownership. There were so many horrible twists of fate and unscrupulous characters that caused their move. When the Whalers were sold to Karmanos, Lowell Weiker was the gov of CT. Karmanos was not the highest bidder for the team. There was another CT based ownership group that promised to keep the team in CT longer and bid higher but somehow Karmanos was awarded the team. After Weiker’s term ended, John Rowland (who ended up going to jail for a crime later in his tenure) became Governor. A year or two later Lowell Weiker mysteriously showed up on the Compuware board which is the company owned by Karamanos! Yes we were literally sold out. Enter Robert Kraft and John Rowland. Kraft had no intention of moving the Patriots to CT but knew if he negotiated with CT he would use that as leverage to get Gillette Stadium. Roland hated hockey and was completely suckered by Kraft. He kept saying that it was fine to let the Whalers go because we’d get the Pats. So we were screwed every which way. People don’t realize that Whaler fans were some of the most passionate in the league and it ripped the heart out of that city and its fans. I saw the support the Whalers received in Hartford and it would be a great market for the NHL but Bettman will never allow it. I still to this day have a big hole in my heart for that team. I remember Gordie Howe walking around the arena after he retired just shaking fans hands and talking to fans. I remember sweeping Quebec in 1986 for our only NHL playoff series win and the OT game 7 loss to Montreal who ended up winning the cup. The crowds during those games were as loud as you’d ever hear in an arena. Good memories. I’ll always bleed green.
IIRC it was said that Bruins and Rangers Ownership will prevent any tries to bring a Team back to Hartford.
Yeah, that might be a problem, too, that they would be too close to existing franchises. There are certain areas around NHL franchises where they can object the relocation of a team there. For example, there were also rumors about a Hamilton, Ontario-based team, but the Maple Leafs (and maybe Buffalo as well) would certainly oppose this. Then, on the other hand, there are three teams in the New York area, two in the LA area, etc..
Attendance is better since he uploaded this!!!
I think the major reason the Whalers left Hartford was Hartford's market size and location.
Hartford was one of the smallest markets with a "big four" Pro sports teams.
Another primary reason was that Hartford was 100 miles southwest of Boston and 100 miles northeast of New York.
Hockey fans in Hartford and points to the north, east, and southeast were likely fans of the Boston Bruins.
Hockey fans west, south, and southwest of Hartford were likely fans of one of the New York area's three NHL clubs most likely the New York Rangers.
A secondary reason was the University Of Connecticut women's basketball team, which has a huge following in Connecticut.
Funny do you have all the draft previews because I have from 1987 to 2019 and find it very interesting looking back and remember reading about Bure before he got drafted
I remember watching The Whalers’s final game. I thought they left because of “arena problems”, similar to how Seattle lost its NBA team.
funnily enough, seattle actually lost their nba team because of a bad owner as well
Nah Civic Center was small but fine and was ahead of its time with a mall in it
0:13 Crazy how much difference a new owner and 3 years makes. Nobody is asking for them to move now.
bring back the Whale! I used to was a season ticket holder (partial)
All you’ve said was absolutely true because I lived it in Hartford (1964-2011.).
And to give you an idea, my old man and my friends fathers used to rotate trips from our home in Hartford to Springfield when they were the New England Whalers; long before coming to Hartford not to mention the NHL draft where they raped the Whaler franchise best players in the entry draft!
At the end of the day, dual dirtbags, commissioner Gary Bettmen and Karmanos worked together to move the franchise (PERIOD).
Nothing was going to keep the Whalers in Hartford, nor will a franchise ever come back to Hartford, because the NHL does not want a city in between New York and Boston siphoning fans and revenue from the Bruins, Rangers and Islanders. End of story.
To this day I have not returned to an NHL game nor bought a single licensed trinket, even though I now live in Vegas and the Golden Knights have been incredibly successful.
Screw them!
This could've been a 10 second long video: "Why did the Whalers leave Hartford? Because Peter Karmanos is a shitbag. The end."
Karmanos was the Art Modell of the NHL, and in multiple ways. I live in Raleigh. Raleigh barely knows the Hurricanes exist unless they're winning, and if/when Dundon moves them to Houston? We'll not complain with nearly the same volume, or certainly duration, that Hartford has. I'm all for Hartford going back into the NHL. Hell, they can have the Hurricanes back provided you give Raleigh Major League Baseball in exchange somehow.
It's not gonna happen. Hartford is bankrupt and isn't going to commit to projects that primarily rely on public money (see the recent Dillon Stadium issue). There's no clear ownership and the return would require territory payments for 4 different teams (NYR, NYI, NJD, BOS). Hartford is like Hamilton, it's fun to go through the hypotheticals but ultimately it just isn't going to happen
Mr. Man that's not the point. Hartford doesn't currently have a prospective owner with enough capital to pay for the new arena, and territorial fees.
There will be no territorial fees.
There probably would be. Hartford would be encroaching on established fan bases of the other teams. Even though this is hypothetical, the fees would be built in to the franchise fee if not explicitly announced.
Please come back to ct. I miss the whalers
bradmarepublic- That is an accurate statement.
wish the canes did another Whalers throwback night. I went to see the canes in Boston in the jerseys last March it was an awesome night.
Tonight!
Alex Anthony - They do them on occasion. I think it will be a yearly thing on dedicated nights.
Funny enough the junior hockey team here in Hampton Roads is named the Whalers. Also there were talks of Karmanos moving the Whalers to Detroit to play at the Palace.
RJ Pugs lol that would be funny because now (even though numbers might not say so) Detroit looks like some nights Arizona is a huge success in terms of attendance.
Tiffany W The problem with Detroit is that the tickets are way too expensive for the new arena and most of those seats are corporate. The Joe had this problem too.
RJ Pugs yeah but when the team misses playoffs management should lower prices since the play on ice is lower
tv markets play a huge role now but i think for how close Connecticut is to New York, i would think the TV deal would be very a lucrative one
Panthers Hockey Metropolitan areas where the team is located determines its TV market. NYC in another market altogether and would have no affect on Hartford's TV revenue. Not to mention the NYC market already has 3 teams. The Hartford metropolitan area has about 1.2 million people, which would make it the smallest American TV market in the NHL.
dude you are still on about this? this is two videos later, im not here to debate you. Even shannon thinks the team would have a really good chance to make a go of it.
Panthers Hockey I have a sports management degree and have worked in business operations for 20 years, so this topic (franchise operations and relocation) is one that I have followed closely for that last 25+ years. Everyone wants a team back in Hartford, myself included. I just think it's silly to continue to have a conversation about it happening when its not realistic from a financial standpoint. Everyone thinks its a great idea on the surface, but nostalgia doesn't pay the bills. As Shannon stated, Hartford has never been revisited as a possible relocation destination. Theres a reason for that. If there was money to be made there, someone would have sniffed around already. No business owner will put a product in a location where the value of his organization would be significantly less than if i put it somewhere else.
everyone's an expert on the internet, have a good one lmao
Panthers Hockey Okay buddy. Whatever you say. Continue having visions of grandeur while the rest of us look at things objectively from a business economic standpoint. Hockey is a business, like any other, and its sole purpose is to make money. Keep that in mind.
The first couple of years the team were in Greensboro when they came to Carolina add in the fact a lot of people were not glued in on when games were going to happen because of no advertising was hardly done . once the team had an arena in raleigh then that is when attendance went up big time to the games because it was less of a drive to the games and they started advertising for games . North Carolina is a hockey market because a ton of people from up north have relocated to the triangle and lots of them are fans of their teams like boston , new york , toronto , philly , new jersey , and so on . and their families have kids who are becoming fans of the hurricanes . over generations the fandom for the hurricanes will grow even more because more people are moving to carolina because of jobs or the place itself .
I would LOVE to see the Whalers back in Hartford. And I want to hear "Brass Bonanza" blasting through the speakers every time they score a goal. Wouldn't it be great if Joel Quenneville became their coach?!!! What a great story that would be. By the way, I never thought of the Whalers as perennial doormats. They were at the top of the WHA, winning multiple AVCO Cups as the Boston and New England Whalers, so they had a cup-winning championship history/tradition of their own. We mustn't forget 1985-1986 NHL season when the Whalers came within a cat's whisker of making it to the Stanley Cup Finals, losing to the Montreal Canadiens and the greatest goalie of all time, Patrick Roy in OVERTIME, GAME 7. You don't get any closer to making it to the finals than that! And the fact that the Canadiens went on to win the finals in just 5 games suggests a pretty safe bet that if that overtime game 7 had gone a different way, that the Whalers would have won the Stanley Cup. And it was all because of Patrick Roy, who was in his prime. ONE MEASLY OVERTIME GOAL from the Stanley Cup. The very next season, the Whalers won the Adams Division. So don't be dissin' on the Whalers and calling them a bunch of losers. The Pittsburgh Penguins have the Whalers to thank for former-Whaler acquisitions who contributed to them winning consecutive Stanley Cups.
What the best alignment of teams and expansion would be:
Atlantic: Sens, Leafs, Hamilton, Habs, Maroons, Nordiques, Bruins, Sabres, Whalers, Wings
Metropolitan: Jackets, Flyers, Pens, Rags, Isles, Devils, Caps, Canes, Panthers, Lightning
Central: Wild, Hawks, Preds, Blues, Stars, Houston, Knights, Yotes, Kansas City
Pacific: Jets, Flames, Oilers, Canucks, Seattle, Portland, Sharks, Ducks, Kings
this is a bedtime story for hockey fans, and I'm from bristol and would love to see any major league franchise in Hartford
Your about half right about why they left. Yes Karmanos was a huge reason why they left however the root of the problem started before Karmanos even bought the team when in the early 90s the country was in a major recession and Hartfords number one industry was the insurance business which took a massive decline with major layoffs and companies starting to consolidate. The resulting lowered attendance was felt hard because the Whalers primary fan base was inner-city and local surrounding areas.
Their best chance was 86 and the got eliminated in OT in game 7 against the Habs ,who went on to win the cup. It coulda been Hartford's cup .
I’m a Chargers fan. Very familiar. Crappy teams, coaches. Made hard for fans to go to games. The Q looked like a visiting stadium most of the time. He wanted to “turn the page” on SD. I totally can feel Hartford’s pain. I’m a Kings fan but kinda liked the Whalers. #BringBackTheWhale
Just to help out Karmanos a little but also hurt him at the same time, the first 2 years of Carolina hockey was played at a much smaller venue in Greensboro NC which was only holding 11,000 people on average at the time while the PNC Arena (REX Center or previously know as RBC Center) was being build in Raleigh, very poor planning on his part for sure! I am a die hard Canes fan and I personally would love to see Hartford come back to the league but moving Carolina isn’t the answer. Florida Panthers to either Quebec City and NY Islanders to Hartford or visa versa. I think seeing what I missed on growing up would be an awesome and historical move back to the present day!
I'm a big Cannes fan and I love the new owner!
You are so right. I really hope that this happens. I’m from a small town in CT, and all people talk about is the Whalers. That’s the only thing that we are somewhat known for. We have the Patriots but that’s the whole New England. If the Whalers came back to Hartford, I would have the season passes and go to every game. I love hockey, and I really hope they come back. Thanks so much for making this video.
Technically, the 4 major Boston teams are New England’s teams.
LONG LIVE THE WHALE TAIL!
The main thing about that first two years of the Hurricanes was the team played in Greensboro which is a full 2 hours away from Raleigh. Who's going to drive 2 hours to see a team that won't play in your home city for 2 years? And who's going to pay to go to games when the team is moving away from your city in 2 years? It was bad. Raleigh has been a good home to the Hurricanes, a better one than Karmanos deserves. It's going to be good to see things continue going positively as Dundon continues to improve fan experience and the team gets better too.
As a Rangers fan,I miss the whalers myself.The Rangers going to Hartford was almost a home game,for the Rangers,but the whalers were competitive in some years.
Same with the Bruins.
Raleigh deserved a team. I am really glad we have one.
I grew up in Raleigh in the 2000's and only knew them as our Carolina Hurricanes. I was very confused when someone told me they were a different team before lol
Hartford Whalers had a lotta losing years but its a hockey town
I was so pissed that Hartford moved I stopped watching hockey atleast 15 years. I live in Vegas now so I’m fully back into hockey! I only started watching again because of the Kings around 2011. My first hockey game was the Whalers at the Civic Center in 86. I was a junior Whaler lol.
You also have to look at tv revenues at Raleigh vs. Hartford.
Not only awesome sweaters but a kick ass horn and song. I’d love to hear Brass Bonanza cranking in XL
Just watched this video just after watching the one about the Quebec Nordiques... Now, I have a question: from memory, the Winnipeg Jets have the exact same building they had when the left many years ago... They agree that it's "too small", but it's better to have a small building that is full than to have a bigger one empty... hence the fact that even if the Quebec Nordiques would still be in the old Colisé, they would still draw more people than MANY other NHL teams...
No, the Jets do not play in the same arena - the old Winnipeg Arena was demolished in 2006, the new Jets play at MTS Centre, which was opened in 2004. It is indeed rather small by NHL standards, "only" seating about 15k, but Winnipeg is a hockey-loving town, so it is of course always well-filled and they still have a better attendance than some teams with bigger arenas.
I remember they had a bad deal with Sports Channel and the media didn’t help either. UCONN Huskies stole all the sports coverage in the Hartford Courant and radio. The Whalers got no respect . It was frustrating. Most people in CT are either Rangers or Bruins fans. It was hard to find Whaler fans and jokes usually followed. I think they love minor leagues and supporting New York and Boston when it comes to NHL. That final season we had to pool together with other fans to buy complete season ticket packages to support the team, it wasn’t just corporations. It’d be nice to c them return but not sure the people care anymore.
Good to know...I thought they were on Ch. 3 in Hartford? If they were around today, they’d be on NESN.
Yeah being on SC new england was a problem. It didn't get coverage for half the state. Growing up in Fairfield county CT, the richest part of CT, and I could see the Rangers, Islanders and even Devils.... UConn got Tv in Fairfield county and it made all the difference.
Carolina can go pound salt. I liked it because it was 100 miles from Boston and I could see the Penguins a couple of times a year.
The NHL lost some of their soul when the Whale left.
The real reason , besides the new arena proposal, was that the economy in CT was down and so was attendance. They needed an average of 13,000 a game to stay afloat and were only averaging 11,500 or so. I' m a Rangers/ Pens guy now. I was a Rangers fan ( never really stopped but the Whalers became #1) before the NHL Whalers and returned when they left. I was born in Pittsburgh but my father left Westinghouse in Pitt when I was 3 and went to Pratt & Whitney.
I lived in Raleigh when the Canes came in. Even interviewed for an office job (pay was shit). I didn't think they'd last more than 4 years there. Then they actually won a cup. Bravo for the Canes. They are an entertaining team to watch in recent years and are one I root for, but have been a Pens fan since 1991. The fan base there is all about College football/basketball. I'm a little surprised Hockey lasted, though attendance is sub par.
Maybe Seattle should be the Whalers. Fitting name and colors, but I'm wondering how they are going to go w/a color scheme with Vancouver so close by? All the Seattle teams have similar colors + the Canucks. The names they floated were all bad. I had a few good ones, but doubt they were considered. The Seattle Wave (where the fan wave gained notoriety....plus near the water/ocean. The Seattle Sound (maybe too much like the Sounders...but double meaning). Snowcaps. I hope they don't chose something stupid like the Totems. These days something more fitting might be the Seattle Junkies or SJW's
Amen to bringing back the Whalers.... Bring back Quebec while we are at it. Great video
I would think that Portland is a better city than Hartford. Portland has a 72% white population and has the 22nd largest tv market in the U.S.
Move Florida to Hartford? I wouldn’t mind tbh
Brandon just because you don't mind, it doesn't mean no one else would.
Better the Panthers than the bolts
No, Florida to Houston!
Hell nah bring the thrashers back or give Toronto that Second team their talking about maybe the Maple leafs would stand a chance then🤣.
Tom dundon won't give up the rights to the whalers name without a fight. It's such a good potential revenue stream for him.
So true
I was there. All true. Agree.
Thanks for your support and advocacy. Hartford loves hockey!
Apparently they didn't love them that bad
To be fair, Carolina didn’t have an area bigger than 10k for the first two years so...
Do the nordique
My favorite jerseys ever! Even though I am a leafs fan, born in T.O. -> Still love that baby blue with an igloo jersey!
i guess you hate las vegas.
What? The fuck does that have to do with either comment here? LUL
More Teams - No Good !
Another team i miss-i was a huge Pat Vrbeek fan...
Who was worse, Karmanos or the guy who moved the Minnesota North Stars?
Zednix 55 it has to be Norm green because they improved the Arena and he often talked with fans and acted like he was going to stay in Minnesota and they he completely stabbed them in the back when moving to Dallas.
Three Detroiters at this time owned NHL teams. Ilitch of course owned the Wings. Karmanos owned Whalers/Hurricanes and Bill Davidson owned the Lightning. The last two really did not have their hearts in those NHL teams and would have rather had owned the Red Wings. Since they couldn't, they got choice #2 and while both would get their Stanley Cups, there was not that kind of love for those teams from their owners.
Bring back the Nordiques and the Whalers, then put a new team in Seattle!
Its time the NHL acknowledged traditional interest in the game as well as trying to generate new.
Salt Lake City would support hockey. They had the winter Olympics there for crying out loud.
They poisoned the well with the fans when they dropped Brass Bonanza as their fight song
They I believe would have won the 1986 cup if not for that Claude Lemieux goal. One goal could have put them against Calgary and I think they would have won it then.
Love u HOCKEY GUY! GREAT VIDEO!
I'm from Connecticut and the problem now with ever bringing a team to Hartford is that it's in Boston's market and the Bruins will fight it. Back when the Whalers cam to the NHL the Bruins couldn't fight it though they did make them change their name from New England Whalers (when they were WHA) to Hartford Whalers as the Bruins had the territorial rights. Now it would be different. Boston could fight and prob block Hartford from bringing another team which sucks.
If I were the Bruins’ owner, I wouldn’t fight it. If NY and LA/So.CAL can have 2 teams in every sport, there’s nothing wrong with it. Again, Mr. Jacobs have been an absentee owner for the most part, so what does he care? He owns an Original Six Franchise, so he’s going to make $$$ regardless.
Now that resident of north west CT I fully understand just how badly people of CT got screwed.
I’m an Islander fan. I was, and still am upset about the Whalers leaving. It’s still my favorite logo.
i am an islander fan as well but had a soft spot for the whalers
Geoff Sanderson was a great whaler player
In Hartford your right it was all corporate and going to a game was extremely boring. Go bolts !!!