Book Discussion with DANIEL RACHEL |
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- Author Daniel Rachel joins the Beatles discussion with this book Like Some Forgotten Dream: What if the Beatles hadn't split up?
Purchase Daniel's books here:
Like Some Forgotten Dream: tinyurl.com/2p9x3jfy
The Art Of Noise, Conversations with Great Songwriters: tinyurl.com/rkfutsu7
Don't Look Back In Anger: The rise and fall of Cool Britannia: tinyurl.com/ycx7tjhx
SUPPORT Pop Goes the 60s on PATREON: www.patreon.com/user?u=81879771
I love these Beatle discussions Matt. It reminds me of me and my friends and a running joke we used to have when at the pub getting drunk. It would only be a matter of time before we were passionately discussing the Beatles, albeit not as eloquently as you guys. It didn't matter where the conversation started or where we were at; it always inevitably went back to The Beatles.
Thanks, Lewis! I'm known for going on with buddies of mine too.
What strikes me is John said the Get Back sessions were miserable, and he wasn't happy. But I see him enjoying himself and happy with his "lads." On the other hand, in his Imagine film he comes off as an unhappy, miserable SOB. I still feel he was being told he was unhappy.
That's a great comparison Rahdahl. The difference between the two is almost polar opposites.
@@popgoesthe60s52 I think it's a mistake to make assumptions by what people show (behavior). Get back sessions and John being happy?
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Heroin?
@@wertor666 I'm sure you make assumptions all the time based on behavior.
Greetings Matt ✌ Very Lively conversation with Daniel Rachel 👍 Cant wait to get my hands on his book:Like Some Forgotten Dream, I myself since I was a Teenager have been playing this "Parlor" Game or Fantasy Beatle Albums and I have recorded countless cassette tapes and CD's for family and friends as well for myself. Some books that I have gotten some information on unreleased Beatle songs are The Unreleased Beatles by Richie Unterberger and BEATLESONGS by William J.Dowlding. -Also Matt your Series of Albums That Never Were, as well as John Heaton's videos and Eric Callero of Vinyl Rewind have also done their "Lost Beatle Albums" which are interesting and informative. -But the Game changer for me Matt is your previous video of Albums That Never Were of Get Back and the revelation of John Lennon's song Imagine?!?! -And sure enough You are correct!!! even Wikipedia has info of its origins in January of 69 and on the Fly on the Wall disc of Let it Be Naked it can be heard around the --6:00-- mark, Which I Never noticed it before. So now with Imagine I have to re-record my Unrealeased Double Beatle album Jubilee (named after the original title of McCartney's song Junk) and I'll have to chose in dropping Teddy Boy or Suicide -Most likely Suicide LOL!!! - Anyways Matt let me share my listing of my Fantasy Unrealeased Beatle Album of 71 which I truly feel are legitimate Beatle songs that Could of, Would of, Should of been their follow up to Let it Be had The Beatles continued as a group. And as you and Daniel have mentioned these are ALL pre 1971 songs that were all done from the period of 1968-1970. #1. Come and Get it #2. Long Lost John (From the Lennon Anthology) #3.Early 1970 #--4.Hot-- As Sun #5.Crippled Inside (Originally Black Dog Blues)#6.Teddy Boy #7. Look At Me #8. Id Have You Anytime #9. Everynight #10.Jealous Guy (Version from Lennon Anthology) #11. Step inside Love #12. Woke Up in the Morning ( Because You Know I Love You So)#13.Suicide (One Hand Clapping)#--14.It-- Dont Come Easy #15 Let it Down(Take 1 from ATMP 50th Anniversary)#16. Another Day #17.Gimme Some Truth #18. Art of Dying (Take 9 Outtake) #19.Back Seat of my Car #20.All Things Must Pass (Beatle Version)#21.Junk #22.Oh My Love #23. Maybe Im Amazed #24.Mind Games #25. Isnt it a Pity (#2) #26.Goodbye - Anyways thats how the sequencing or the flow of this double album goes- Other songs that can be Substituted or added are: Dehra Dun, Remember ( a song that John tinkered on Piano during the Abbey Road sessions) Behind That Locked Door, Oh Yoko ( Written in India 1968) Wah Wah, Run of the Mill.
Great tracklist, Ernie. This stuff never gets old.
I believe it was Allen Klein that destroyed the chance of the Beatles continuing. My opinion.
I agree. The Beatles had always been blessed with an inner circle of genuinely good people who wanted the best for the group. John let Yoko in. And she encouraged the inclusion of Allen Klein. Neither Yoko nor Klein appeared interested in promoting unity and progress for The Beatles as a group.
Well, Yoko wanted John and did everything she could to pry him away from his mates, even removing him from the same country to get him away from their influence. But he seemed to need or want that.
Best interview video I've ever seen. Both of you were into it and excited about the topic. The part that really hit me, was when you guys were talking about how much material was produced in that short period of time. 2 albums plus solo material. Great insights on the Beatles working on each other's songs. Matt, I could listen to you and Daniel talk Beatles all day long. Great job! I'm ordering Daniel's book.
Thank you that is high praise, indeed! I'm sure Daniel will appreciate the sale!
Great discussion... I tend to believe that not everything that they wrote as individuals would not have been on their continuing albums. I mean John and Paul would still have at least consulted each other, Paul would have put his contribution in the studio. I think George's material would have essentially remained. Ringo.... interesting to think of the Fab Four to have worked on "Photograph" and "It Don't Come Easy."
Beatles Parlor Games? I'm in :-) That was a terrific discussion gentlemen. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Jeez Matt, you really know your stuff. Most impressive sir. May I offer a Parlor Game? What if the 1966 world tours weren't a nightmare for the Beatles and Brian didn't end up taking the heat he received. The Beatles continue to go on to record Pepper in the Spring of 67 whilst Brian books a scaled back August Tour. Say 10 days in America, 5 days in Great Britain and 5 days in Europe. Sept they demo new material. Oct/Nov record the songs and film for the Magical Mystery Tour soundtrack EP, with a still living Brian Epstein's oversight. What if then, in 1968, Brian accompanied the band to India. The Beatles return home to demo the India songs for there next LP. Recorded over May June and July, the band promotes the LP with an August Tour similar to 1967. Sept they demo songs for their Christmas LP. Songs that would've been equated to the second White Album LP. Taking off Dec and Jan of 1969, the Beatles return in February and March to record the Get Back LP. (no film) This time with Brian's organization and George Martin/Geoff Emerick at the recording helm. The well rested Beatles would most likely arrive with their latest individual songs further developed. No Magic Christian and no Allen Klein. They go on to record Abbey Road from June, July and August of 1969. No 69 tour. Without breaking up, in Sept they all agree to record solo LP's in 1970. With Brian keeping an eye on the store. Take care Matt, RNB
I'm up for almost any Beatle parlor game!
@@popgoesthe60s52 Do you think the 66 Tour sowed the seeds for the Beatles break up? Their decision to quit touring eliminated much of Brian's responsibilities. They certainly didn't need to be promoted. It also allowed the individual Beatles to become more isolated from each other. Where a month on the road would've kept them together and kept their chops up as a band. It seems that Brian's spiral downward started after this decision. He caught tons of grief for the haphazard 66 tour and I don't think he ever recovered from it. With Brian's passing in 67 the Beatles, as a band, started it's 2 year march towards their eventual break up. Any thoughts? Anywho, have a great weekend Matt, RNB
Thanks for this Matt and Daniel. Any discussion of a Beatles album post Abbey Road has to include the fact that there's different musicians and producers on the solo tracks. As you both mentioned the Get Back film clearly shows the group composed the songs together to one degree or another. Compiling a "next " Beatles album based on the solo songs that were recorded 70-71 has to have this caveat. Not to mention no George Martin input as well.
That was a stimulating discussion! I couldn't help but thinking of an excerpt from one of John's interviews, where he was saying that the Beatles were getting boring. He was explaining that playing with the same musicians over and over again does not let you advance as a musician. Combined with the creative surge George and Paul were going through, there is a chance John decided to end it simply because he was facing some short of creative stalemate. Maybe his way of leaving the band was, then, was another incident of "punching his way" through a situation. Notwhistanding all other issues taking place at the same time, of course.
Great conversation... Keep them coming, you're great content. Love it and share it with people
Love Mind Games. I’m going to go listen again. Thanks Matt & Daniel for an interesting discussion on my fav subject.
Brilliant interview and interaction from both of you, thank you both
Thank you, John!
Another amazing video Matt! Thanks so much
Nice Inreview Matt. Will be sure to pick up the book
Thanks Mark - I'm sure Daniel will appreciate it!
Very interesting talk.
I thought it would be a rehash of stuff I heard but you guys brought something to the table.
After watching many of these videos by Matt and other fellow Beatle fans, it really hits home to me how one event TRULY changed the course of music….the passing of Brian Epstein.
That was very interesting, friends !!
I tend to agree that the breakup wasn't inevitable. They neededed a break, and someone to take care of the business, which unfortunately didn't happen. If they had found a way to combine their group outlet, with their individual outlets, they could have survived. But this option wasn't to be because of the arrival of Allen Klein, the discord which ensued, and the lack of any break to explore solo projects between albums. Separately, they never really achieved the artistic heights of their group output. I think this is why we all speculate on the great music we never go to hear, despite their solo albums.
Such a great discussion...I didn't realize Imagine was played in Get Back a smidge, so I now have a reason (like I really needed one) to go through it again. Thanks as always, Matt and Daniel!
Great interview - enjoyed it thoroughly.
Great interview and insightful! I left Spotify for tidal and working on THIS type of playlist!
Great discussion with Daniel …..I will definitely check out his book. Great catch with the Doggett book about the Red and Blue albums. I totally missed that and went back and sure enough it was there regarding the Long and Winding Road movie! Thanks for sharing Matt!
Thanks for watching, Bill. I'm sure Daniel will appreciate the sale!
Fantastic stuff, this. You both articulated my thoughts on George's songs better than anyone. I've argued for years w my brother over the others' contributions to Something and HCTS. That song is a BEATLES song, yes, it was George's, but you can hear McCartney's arrangement influence, no doubt. Ringo's drumming is stellar, too, not to mention John's songwriting advice. The chemistry between them is unbelievable. The echoes of the others' influence is evident on ATMP, my absolute favorite post-Fab world.
Thank you for the comment, Laura! Much appreciated.
Very interesting and insightful.
Loved the discussion, especially was surprised by the origins of Mind Games. Would also strongly recommend the Two Of Us movie by Michael Lindsay Hogg, which you mentioned on an earlier show. Think that Monopoly game was invented in the USA!
The Two of Us TV movie was laughable, took too many liberties
You guys hit on some very pertinent points here...THE SUM WAS GREATER THAN THE PARTS...almost never truer than when applied to The Beatles. The big revelations of the Get Back doc was ALL THE COLLABORATION still going on between them! Yes sure there are a number of tracks in their history that may have only 1,2 or 3 on the finished track but even then there may still be residue of arrangements or parts from a missing member ocassionaly . SOMETHING being one great example, Lennon had been there when they first began work on it , and on the Abbety Road version was playing piano however it was wiped eventually for other instrumentation, they needed space on the 8 track!! That was the era.
I kind of have a different opinion on constructing a "fantasy" post Abbey Road album...I think maybe half or 3/4 of it may have been songs that ended up on solo records but I think they would have come up with a few others that were inspired as they worked and certainly the arrangements would be likely very different on most of them...THANKS!
Agreed with the fantasy album. The one thing we'll never know is what potential new collaborations would have been created that no one - including the Beatles - even know about! Thank for the comment!
Great idea for a book!
Hi Matt, l would have loved to have seen them make another 4 or 5 albums but this is totally unrealistic, but l can dream. Still when l think of the music that they could of made, it does make me a little sad. Great video Matt !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks, Jesse!
You are very welcome Matt, The Beatles Forever !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@@popgoesthe60s52 Y
Great stuff guys. Had never heard 'Not Guilty' - apparently 99 takes for the white album!
Matt & Daniel, For what it is worth, PBS did a one hour American Experience on Monopoly: "Ruthless: Monopoly's Secret History" which aired on 2/20/23 and is (was?) available on RUclips.
Matt, have you considered making audio only versions of your episodes available on a podcast app? I listen to your show A LOT and it would be great to be able to play them in the background on long drives, etc.
I haven't thought of that but I do have a podcast I use for my Albums That Never Were so maybe I can move some of my long format stuff over there. Good suggestion - thank you Kristian!
@@popgoesthe60s52 I think you mentioned on Antony’s show about doing something for paid subscribers. Maybe it could be a part of that..? I rarely subscribe to those type of things, but I’m pretty sure I would pay a monthly subscription for further content from you.
@@kristian_goddard That is very flattering. I am unleashing a Patreon subscription this week so your timing is perfect. Stay tuned!
I haven't read Like Some Forgotten Dream yet but I can't believe that some of the solo songs that were having a go at one of the others would have been included on the next album.
Don't be shy! Please list your selections.
@@popgoesthe60s52 thanks. I'll give it some thought.
Monopoly was an American game. It was based in Atlantic City. Real streets that are mostly still there.
Hi Matt. Would you ever consider doing a video about silver apples? Their story with Pan Am and the reason for their breakup is really interesting, might make for some good subject matter. I really like your channel, especially the in-depth analysis that you and your guests do with the Beatles.
Ooo - that's an obscure one! Nearly every artist if fair game on this channel and my list is very long. For Silver Apples, I may do a feature on the 1960s pioneering electronic music, which Silver Apples would fit right into. I appreciate the request.
Eh?
Great video, per your usual - I look forward to them, so thank you! For those of us who never left vinyl, I am interested in your record display. Did you envision and put this together or did you use a set of plans? Or was it purchased outright? In any event, at least one inquiring mind would like to know, as I need one. Again, many thanks!
Yes! You are the first to ask me about that in 2.5 years of this channel. I designed them and had them made by a carpenter I know. Unfortunately he just retired so I have to find a new guy. Anyway, they are red oak and I used external decorative screws to save on cost and I did the assembly and staining/polyurethane myself. I had them made about 14 years ago and I have two sets. The lower shelf is on wheels and rolls out. I may do a video on them in the future. The cost of wood is so high right now, it doesn't make sense to do it now. All that wood for 2 sets only cost me $200! Of course I spent $ on my buddy's time to make the bins. My record room is still in the future and I hope to be in it soon!
51:38 I think it was called The Landlord's Game, it's on the wikipedia page
Thank you Chris!
Discussing "Imagine" being played during the Get Back sessions, I think other parts of that song might have been ruminating even earlier. Play the "If I Fell" demo at around 1:27. Lennon is already replicating the notes that join the verses in "Imagine" seven years later. ruclips.net/video/jc1h123bHIw/видео.html
Thank you for this version - I didn't have that one!
how intriguing! very cool. he also plays the opening mellotron notes of Strawberry Fields Forever on a melodica in the Beatles in washington movie. ruclips.net/video/USxDXaGeQ3Q/видео.html that's a favourite moment of mine. and another insight into his creativity and song writing process.
@@popgoesthe60s52 I believe it's from an old bootleg called, "The Alf Bicknell Tapes".
What a fascinating 54 minutes of Beatles chat with your British guest Daniel. Matt you are a RUclips hero and every time you post Beatles content im agog with interest. As far as im concerned, come 1969 then George to my mind was on an equal (or very near to it) on a song writing level to John & Paul. Hey its arguable the two top songs on the Abbey Road album came via the pen of George Harrison. Am i suggesting that if the Beatles had gone on into the 1970s that GH should have been awarded 33.3% album song writing credits, then controversially i am. I expect to get slaughtered for suggesting such a thing. Maybe the first track after Abbey Road on the next imaginary album should have been one of the greatest songs of all time (in my view). namely the wonderful `All Things Must Pass`. Of course memories go back to 1966 when George kicked off Revolver with another great Harrisong, `Taxman`.
Have you thought about doing a video about the Cats? Love your stuff!
The notion that Don’t Let Me Down melody was to down to McCartney is absurd. You see the song at the beginning with John and George singing it. The chorus is already melody in place. When Paul turns up he says is that all you’ve got. That said he arranged a lot of it, especially the drums.
Man I would love to send you my john lennon S oLo no yoko 1980 double fantasy. I think you would injoy this reimagined album 🙂
In November 1969, in a Life magazine interview, Paul said that he had no intention of writing new music or recordin new songs with The Beatles
He reiterated this statement in April 1970 when he released his first solo album. Let it be was released in April 1970 along with the movie. On December 1970, Paul started legal proceedings to dissolve The Beatles
Years later, the other 3 ex Beatles thanked him for that.
Had he not done so, Allen Klein would have taken over all their assets ( as he did with the Stones and, as McCartney said, "we would have had nothing left from our work in the 1960s)". There could not have been another album by The Beatles for that reason alone. But also, Lennon wanted out.
Thanks for the comments, Claude - much appreciated!
The one thing I always wonder about when I think of the Beatles not splitting up when they did is, would they still have continued to shape the cultural zeitgeist into the 70s and later, or would they have wound up culturally (if not musically) irrelevant like their peers the Who, the Stones and the others?
The Who and the Stones both got their second wind in the early 70's imo some of their best stuff
@@jeffclement2468 the early 70s was basically still the 60s. I mean the punk years, glam rock, reggae and beyond.
@@georgeleorgebeorge2354 My point exactly
I prefer to think that the last great album of the classic rock era (60's and beyond) was The Who's Quadrophenia which came out in '74
When the big corporations took over, I just listened to reggae for a couple of years till I heard The Clash 😻😎✌
Where can I get the photo with the Beatles duking it out?
That's from the Mad Day out photo shoot, for which there is a book of. Or just buy Daniel's book!
GOOD MORNING, GOOD EVENING OR GOOD AFTERNOON MATT . I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF YOU PLAN TO MAKE A VIDEO ABOUT THE UNRELEASED BEATLES ALBUM "SESSIONS ". I'M QUITE NOT SURE ,BUT I THINK YOU ONCE MENTIONED IT .THANK YOU AND HAVE A NICE DAY. ✌
I may do one on that topic at some point. I don't actually have it but it is interesting in the bootleg history of the Beatles.
@@popgoesthe60s52 THANKS
Monopoly is from the US...based on the streets of Atlantic City, NJ
Why would American bootlegs affect releasing 2 compilation albums?
Hmmm......
.)
Just imagine Googling.. Everybody Had A Wet Dream..🤔😂
Enjoyed this discussion, Matt, as always.
Suggestion: Despite the Lennon-McCartney Deal, love to see a video on the overlooked contributions of George and Ringo to The Beatles Discography, especially on particular songs. And, more focus on the Lennon-McCartney Songwriting Partnership Deal. In the end, in retrospect, was this songwriting credit the right deal?
Don’t believe the “4 Songs per Paul, John, George + 2 for Ringo” Album Model would have worked beyond maybe 2-3 Albums, mainly because of George.
Think About It. Beyond 1968-1969, Harrison just wasn’t ever a prolific, consistently great songwriter, especially once you get past his so-called stockpile of songs with The Beatles.
George never duplicated “All Things Must Pass” as a Solo Music Artist or even in collaborations.
John took 5+ years off with barely enough quality material to fill “Shaved Fish.” Ever listen to the “Pussy Cats” Album with Harry Nilsson? Lennon recorded “Rock ‘N’ Roll” to fulfill his contract.
So, it’s just not a sustainable model. This model only really works for McCartney who remained so consistently prolific, retaining the most commercial and artistic appeal in the long run, yes, even if we stop time in 1980.
Ringo would have kept getting plenty of help from friends and band mates, delivering a nice self-penned dirty here and there.
I do agree all of The Beatles Solo Work would have benefited from Beatle Input and Influence.
PS! The Monopoly Board Game was created by an American Woman, Lizzie Magie and originally called “The Landlord’s Game” with refinement from Charles Darrow.
this dude totally looks like a mod from the 60s
It's a cool look and he pulls it off admirably.
You mean cos he's got a short haircut? Duh. I was around then, he wasn't.
It’s an affectation man. I wish the kids would develop their own styles instead of copying ours 😁
Monopoly, very American.
The original US version, from 1935, used properties named entirely after streets in Atlantic City. A British version of Monopoly came out within weeks of the American one, but with all the locations renamed after places in London.