Diversity might be fun for a while but stability and being able to master something you understand is what makes games last longer. IMO one of the reasons League have had an edge all this years against some of the other games you mention in the podcast, it makes it more professional and it makes it more enjoyable in the long run.
Marc DR I agree, and as much as I enjoy a bloody game in pro, it's most appealing to me when everyone knows what's strong and meta. Then you see the best players in the world playing at the very highest level of play and rather than the patches changing the meta, innovation changes the meta. Like chess, one of the oldest competitive games in the world, has developed over time massively changing as innovative new strategies and players with different playstyles came in and dominated.
Having these people that dump gold onto 1 person is/has definitely been around for a while but wasn't as popularized due to people in solo queue not being able to execute as well as the pro players. I'm actually excited to see what's going to happen this split
Fair play to azeal, he made the most relevant point in this video when he said "every other single role but adc has had to at some point play a different class of champion if they wanted to play what was meta," I know sometimes people don't like change, but so long as regular marksman remain somewhat viable then I welcome changes that ultimately broadened the strategical horizons of the game.
thats not really true imo. Id' consider the classes of ADC to be: hyper-carry (jinx and kog), utility (sivir and ashe), ability-based (ezreal and varus), team-fight (miss fortune and xayah), and duelist (vayne and kai'sa). Most ADCs fall in more than one category but they are very unique playstyles. It's not much different than the basic roles that fill each lane historically: Top (tank or fighter), Mid (mage or assassin), Support (peel, engage or pick). This meta is very unhealthy for the game to make a whole class of champions not viable.
"League is in the worst state it has ever been. Riot should not try to enforce the meta. Let people play what they want. ADCs are op." 8.11 "League is in the worst state it has ever been. Riot should try to enforce the meta. It's a total fiesta right now. ADCs are gutted."
They've spent years forcing the meta on their terms. Opening it up now is such a fiesta because of the constant nerfs to champs and playstyles when they tried to play them outside of the meta earlier. So a lot of champs have been actually made useless because of the marksmen and jungle changes
People literally do nothing but complain about whichever meta is in effect right now. "Ardent OP, pls nerf." "Black Cleaver op pls nerf" etc etc. My personal favorites, "Games last too long, let me carry harder, too much waveclear." "Snowballing is op, games don't last long enough, waveclear is gutted, nerf snowballing" LOL.
I am fine with people being able to play what they want, but the problem is that they completely invalidated almost every ADC to open up the meta. If you're a bot player or a pro player who has built up your skill level with marksmen, every game now feels like you're autofilling. The correct meta is one in which marksmen can stand toe-to-toe with "off meta" picks in bot lane. Instead, ADC's are now sitting in the trash outside of a few unique cases. Also, if you're a pro team that has a ton of success based on your ADC (C9 and RNG as examples), this one patch completely decimated your roster choices and coaching decisions over the last year.
@John Roush It could just be something of an adjustment period. There were a lot of changes, and a lot of champions were influenced by those changes, and people are still finding ways to make things work. Furthermore, ADCs are not complete Trash. As they said, late game, having found a way to gain the money to buy Crit (and now, you'd only need 2 items, IE+Zeal), AD Carries can still destroy the enemy team and are still the best tower-takers (after Ziggs). I have found success on almost every ADC since the patch, after a few games of finding what works for each. I'm not a big fan of the snowballing from this meta, of course, and I think a method to improve some capacity for a come back would be nice, but they'll bring those changes about eventually, as the meta continues to evolve. Still, I appreciate your points and your perspective, and find no real issue with the opinions you've shared, though I don't exactly agree with all your points. It gave me some good points to ponder from.
I liked the simplicity of the old set better, but this one is fine too. The lighting and camera angles feel very weird tho. Especially the main camera, it's not centered, but slightly to the side instead, which is bugging me.
marksmen are being played because they don't want to be reported 4x by their own team. Even though 0 marksmen is meta now in KR it doesn't mean NA is going to catch onto it overnight. Even lower ELOs will straight up refuse to adopt certain meta so just because you see lucian and quesadilla in your games doesn't mean that marksmen as a whole are in a great spot. Azeal you're breaking my heart :(
The argument that the marksman role is fine because ~5 or so of them are still playable is a little laughable to me. Sure, you can still play Ezreal, Kai'sa, Lucian, Jhin, Draven with moderate success, but I think what most people are upset about is the fact that an entire "style" of marksman is no longer viable, i.e. crit marksman. Is this a bad thing? I'm still not sure. Personally, I've been enjoying the shakeup, but I would also like the option to play Cait, Trist, etc. without feeling like I'm just resigning my team to lose unless the game goes to 35+ minutes.
So one thing i wanna get on is that ADC is attack damage carry, of course people think of marksmen as the only group in ADC but yasuo, yi, and plenty of other champions that are not marksmen can be considered ADC as well.
Anthony Gunn my problem is that not only ad characters are now able to be there. If I am beat by a hi or has then I misplayed. If I am out sustained by a vlad or ziggs perma pushes me under tower with no way to sustain without the help of my support in lane is what annoys me.
No they cannot. The "carry" part of adc was because THEY needed to be CARRIED through the early game because they are shit early game. Those "plenty of other champions" you mention do not fit that mold at all. People seem to forget this often because it hasnt been stressed in conversations since the early days of league.
In Smite, when Hunters (the ADC equivalent role) gets nerfed, the pros throw a fit and play assassins, mages, and bruisers. They usually lose to the players who just keep playing the marksmen and then the meta settles into Hunters being played as the carry all the time, just in a slightly weaker state. Do you think this is the same happening right now in League?
Balance team does not get to do actual balance. They buff champions with high potential to sell a lot of new shiny skins and nerf champions that do not. It has never at any point been about actual balance. They are not a "balance" team they are a "increase profit margins" team. Period.
Maibuwolf now that you say it that has to be true because they never actually balance anything they just make one thing op and alternate that every few months its never balanced just something op something trash But that is what i meant they call themself balance team but all they do is ruin the game
I feel that this is the first time hearing "our game", is this something that corporate has you guys saying? I don't mind it but it does sound a little "off", just saying.
I do not work for riot but you can rest assured that you are correct. They would not all 3 be saying it suddenly at the same time for any other reason.
actually this meta can be more beneficial for uzi, given the point that he is the most lane dominant adc in the world, he can snowball in this meta really hard on picks like lucian and ez
Yeah, but you've all just pointed out precisely 3 ADCs on which Uzi could succeed. The same number of bans a team gets before any selections are made. Teams worried about letting Uzi snowball on a comfortable champ can just ban away his picks, forcing him to a Varus (viable, but weak), or a less favorable pick. Can't just assume it will happen, can't assume it won't.
Kog, kaisa, ezreal, Lucian. They are all not just crit dependent like the other marksmen. They build different , therefor they are stronger. Crit needs to be put back to the way it was.
Wait did they say echo fox mid for academy got 5 day suspended for toxicity in Korean solo queue? That would take some skill to get ban for toxicity in queue where you don't speak the official language of the queue.
I'm glad they brought up lucian, kaisa, kog, and ezreal are still being picked. Lucian is the standout champion because essence reaver is extremely busted rn. The other 3 champs all share a common theme, they are noncrit marksmen. BT and Botrk are both buffed and with double tear, ezreal is still pretty good. Kaisa and Kog are fine because guinsoo's wasn't changed and they usually build ap items anyways. Its a chaos down bot rn.
agree, ez (slightly just nerfed a bit) kai'sa whos seen play as pure ap and kog (rage blade) and lucian are the only prominent marksman, lucian is almost completely tied to essence reaver, and the others to rage blade with the exception of ez (double mana stacking recently)
Balance team does not get to do actual balance. They buff champions with high potential to sell a lot of new shiny skins and nerf champions that do not. It has never at any point been about actual balance. They are not a "balance" team they are a "increase profit margins" team. Period. Learn 2 business pls.
what are you talking about? what does selling skins have to do with them removing marksmen from the game? Are you suggesting that people dont buy ADC skins?
They did not remove marksmen. Several are still played and it will stay that way or they force it to stay that way within a patch or two. This is not about what makes logical sense its about what makes business sense. League will never be even remotely close to balanced. It never has been.
your right technically you can still pick marksmen its just worse then a double AP or just throwing an over stated top laner down there with a support. While the financial aspect informs a lot of there decision making. to clam it is the only factor is laughable.
It IS the only factor. That is how every business/company operates. Anything they do is about their bottom line. They only do things that are good for the community/consumer in order to drive up sales. Nothing is ever done for the sole purpose of making the consumer happy. This is a big change right inline with what they also do between splits. They have yet to iron it all out but i assure you it has far more to do with their bottom line than it does with player happiness. If they can increase profits and play happiness at the same time it is a win/win. If it were to only increase player happiness with no profit increase it would not happen. Period. Never be so naive that you think a company cares about you. They do not.
I just wanna see: Karthus/nunu Taric/yi Lulu/twitch Talitah/poppy Taliyah can flex to be solo or duo jungle. There's so much that can happen. Just keep lucian/ez banned and the Meta can be so fun to watch.
Well they brought up the point that near the end of the split, TSM was performing better than CG, so looking at the final 2 week track record , it seems that TSM would have beaten CG in the long run.
too bad there isn’t a long run and they lost. “if they would have played 10 times clutch would have won 2 or 3” but clutch won the series 3-1 when tsm was considered at their best
Am i the only one who really doesn’t like this meta from the perspective of an average to above average player? All i get is feeding people thinking they can play whatever now because someone did it once. Why are we going to completely change what roles do?
JAYCAZ1 Im glad to hear it honestly. Im a player who loves having the ability to play a lot of different viable champs, but i just feel this patch crossed the fine line between diversifying strategy and game-changing chaos. Thoughts?
Washer Mashen Yeah, it is, especially when they end up taking away hp regen, max armor, etc. All told, however, this has been a great patch for me because I get all these people bot laning weird things with no idea how to use them and I just go MF, full lethality, conqueror, and ult the bot into the ground, lol.
"3 less ad for marksman is game changing" No, getting assblasted in lane by two bruisers while being too poor to afford two items by 30 minutes is game changing. Especially considering how the game is basically over by 10-15 minutes based on who mastered the circus. It's game changing because adcs like kaisa and ez are still just as ridiculous as they were before while anyone that builds crit is basically trolling.
Braum mid and Kaisa jungle getting 400 cs before 26 minutes and full build. Yeah not toxic at all. Yeah no counterplay in game unless you duo q and go taric + yi. GG
CLG could succeed since this is Huhi's meta - assassins and aurelion sol are great right now. Still unlikely to win more than nine games obviously. Really is based on whether it is reignover or game over lol
me imagining what if with this meta the open meta they revert back the old ardent censer? its either you die early and lose game or you have been save by your soraka haha
I actually do not want to watch LCS until the fixes come through. It's so hard to watch a well-structured league based on roles become way too open-ended. It feels so weird and uninteresting to watch. Champion diversity is good; however, the excessiveness completely kills the "professional" aspect for me and completely guts the structure that Riot has built for years.
this meta isn't very good at high level play. think about it instead of having a ADC bot that's very squishy we now have tanks and mages like brand with simple abilities. I predict the games will be shorter and can be lost early. if brand is fed bot you can't outplay it lategame. he will shut the other laner out. I'll miss the ADC meta.
I love this podcast, but what bugs me is that when Riot makes decisions that are unpopular and the community is upset, rather than addressing those concerns in a way that explores those complaints, they spend the entire episode trying to build validity under these changes are and how wrong the community is. Yes, many people have opinions that are dumb and changes to the game are just a healthy way to mix things up as time goes on, but ignoring valid complaints just comes off as disingenuous. Love the w\show though.
Riot does not allow their employees to talk about a change flat out sucking ass even when it does. These 3 guys are not going to get fired for your entertainment bro.
I wanted them to have a serious conversation about the issues NA has as a region. The lack of a player base and competition at high elo. I also wanted them to talk about future prospects for each region and how China could be the best region for a while.
Now I dread professional competitors because they dictate whatever has to be played for most of their career, and now they are playing the game "wrong". After watching three days of LPL and LCK, there was no strategic plan, no marco playing style, and just full of troll bloody boring brainless team fights.
a rioter confirmed that he only paste his strats and force his adc to 1v2 without any consensuses before, there are screen captures for proof too. he now doesnt do that and is sometimes streaming on youtube
People didn't even see much of this patch yet and are already complaining. Let there be like 1 week of LCS games and then we can judge how bad it is. These boosting strats are gone next patch anyway. Even if it's only possible for 1/2 weeks people still need to use it properly. A lot of LCK teams horribly failed with for example Nunu/Karthus.
You realize NA has copied Korean strategies for years now correct? We do not need to watch week one of LCS to already know they are going to run the same chaos we are seeing in Korea right now. We already see the chaos globally from the patches current "meta". I firmly believe people have the right to be upset with how terrible the game you once knew turn into a distant memory over the course of 1-2 patches. As a long time player I can easily say I have never seen League in such a horrific state. I'm not quitting the game quite yet but if I do not see hope by the end of the season my mindset very well may change.
that's not true at all. EU was usually always the main region which set the meta. The ADC + support bottom is called EU meta for a reason. Next patch ADC's are probably getting buffed again while snowballing will also get reduced. This will overall bring longer games/crit ADCs back. I doubt this "chaos" will hold on longer than like 2 weeks.
Even though I enjoyed watching QT stream with 5 Banners... I agree that they must remove it from the game...because the strategy removed *team fights* into a tower defense game *(CIash Royale)* No more *all out brawl* just *strategy and macro*
Everyone flames riot But their changes are so good for future proof Enabling the whole champion pool while trying to give it a good balance is really hard Also I wanna thank riot for clash ! No other game has in game tournaments and if they fix it league will be amazing ❤️ Playing clash is 10 times more intense then flex xD
Sebastian Kunstmann trying to retain players by making a sense of community. I know 10 people who stopped playing all of which are not adc players. All games feel bronze now. The didn't like the fiesta.
Gold funneling is NOT new. It's literally a chinese boosting strategy from season 5~6 . . . . . And this cancer has also leaked into Twisted Treeline ranked since season 6.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I love this. Its like Season 2 "Do whatever you want" all over again
Been waiting for the Dive all day
me too man.
a lot longer than a day for me
all week you mean!
I have to say, this is, in my opinion, this is the best episode of the dive yet, and I think is a good reflection on league as a whole.
Diversity might be fun for a while but stability and being able to master something you understand is what makes games last longer. IMO one of the reasons League have had an edge all this years against some of the other games you mention in the podcast, it makes it more professional and it makes it more enjoyable in the long run.
Marc DR I agree, and as much as I enjoy a bloody game in pro, it's most appealing to me when everyone knows what's strong and meta. Then you see the best players in the world playing at the very highest level of play and rather than the patches changing the meta, innovation changes the meta. Like chess, one of the oldest competitive games in the world, has developed over time massively changing as innovative new strategies and players with different playstyles came in and dominated.
"Goldenglue practice giving all of your farm to Svenskeren, you're perfect for this!" - LMAO. Love this episode - so much fun.
People like this meta but I have never had this little fun playing the game
Having these people that dump gold onto 1 person is/has definitely been around for a while but wasn't as popularized due to people in solo queue not being able to execute as well as the pro players. I'm actually excited to see what's going to happen this split
Rip c9
enjoy the show as always! thanks for the broadcast!
Been waiting for this moment since we lost at MSI
I hope C9 is trolling or has some type of plan with this. Rip Sneaky
I hope so 🙏
Fair play to azeal, he made the most relevant point in this video when he said "every other single role but adc has had to at some point play a different class of champion if they wanted to play what was meta," I know sometimes people don't like change, but so long as regular marksman remain somewhat viable then I welcome changes that ultimately broadened the strategical horizons of the game.
thats not really true imo. Id' consider the classes of ADC to be: hyper-carry (jinx and kog), utility (sivir and ashe), ability-based (ezreal and varus), team-fight (miss fortune and xayah), and duelist (vayne and kai'sa). Most ADCs fall in more than one category but they are very unique playstyles. It's not much different than the basic roles that fill each lane historically: Top (tank or fighter), Mid (mage or assassin), Support (peel, engage or pick). This meta is very unhealthy for the game to make a whole class of champions not viable.
So let's make the last role who hasn't experienced that before have at it eh? What a great way to move the game forward :D
Heck yeah the dive is back!
"League is in the worst state it has ever been. Riot should not try to enforce the meta. Let people play what they want. ADCs are op."
8.11
"League is in the worst state it has ever been. Riot should try to enforce the meta. It's a total fiesta right now. ADCs are gutted."
Just nerf irelia, Graves and Xin
They've spent years forcing the meta on their terms. Opening it up now is such a fiesta because of the constant nerfs to champs and playstyles when they tried to play them outside of the meta earlier. So a lot of champs have been actually made useless because of the marksmen and jungle changes
People literally do nothing but complain about whichever meta is in effect right now. "Ardent OP, pls nerf." "Black Cleaver op pls nerf" etc etc. My personal favorites, "Games last too long, let me carry harder, too much waveclear." "Snowballing is op, games don't last long enough, waveclear is gutted, nerf snowballing" LOL.
I am fine with people being able to play what they want, but the problem is that they completely invalidated almost every ADC to open up the meta. If you're a bot player or a pro player who has built up your skill level with marksmen, every game now feels like you're autofilling.
The correct meta is one in which marksmen can stand toe-to-toe with "off meta" picks in bot lane. Instead, ADC's are now sitting in the trash outside of a few unique cases.
Also, if you're a pro team that has a ton of success based on your ADC (C9 and RNG as examples), this one patch completely decimated your roster choices and coaching decisions over the last year.
@John Roush It could just be something of an adjustment period. There were a lot of changes, and a lot of champions were influenced by those changes, and people are still finding ways to make things work.
Furthermore, ADCs are not complete Trash. As they said, late game, having found a way to gain the money to buy Crit (and now, you'd only need 2 items, IE+Zeal), AD Carries can still destroy the enemy team and are still the best tower-takers (after Ziggs). I have found success on almost every ADC since the patch, after a few games of finding what works for each.
I'm not a big fan of the snowballing from this meta, of course, and I think a method to improve some capacity for a come back would be nice, but they'll bring those changes about eventually, as the meta continues to evolve.
Still, I appreciate your points and your perspective, and find no real issue with the opinions you've shared, though I don't exactly agree with all your points. It gave me some good points to ponder from.
Love the new set. The lighting needs work though. Very blue, very dark.
I liked the simplicity of the old set better, but this one is fine too. The lighting and camera angles feel very weird tho. Especially the main camera, it's not centered, but slightly to the side instead, which is bugging me.
marksmen are being played because they don't want to be reported 4x by their own team. Even though 0 marksmen is meta now in KR it doesn't mean NA is going to catch onto it overnight. Even lower ELOs will straight up refuse to adopt certain meta so just because you see lucian and quesadilla in your games doesn't mean that marksmen as a whole are in a great spot. Azeal you're breaking my heart :(
The argument that the marksman role is fine because ~5 or so of them are still playable is a little laughable to me. Sure, you can still play Ezreal, Kai'sa, Lucian, Jhin, Draven with moderate success, but I think what most people are upset about is the fact that an entire "style" of marksman is no longer viable, i.e. crit marksman. Is this a bad thing? I'm still not sure. Personally, I've been enjoying the shakeup, but I would also like the option to play Cait, Trist, etc. without feeling like I'm just resigning my team to lose unless the game goes to 35+ minutes.
The Dive is back! I'm Juiced!
We need a countdown for the next episode of the dive gets released!
So one thing i wanna get on is that ADC is attack damage carry, of course people think of marksmen as the only group in ADC but yasuo, yi, and plenty of other champions that are not marksmen can be considered ADC as well.
Anthony Gunn my problem is that not only ad characters are now able to be there. If I am beat by a hi or has then I misplayed. If I am out sustained by a vlad or ziggs perma pushes me under tower with no way to sustain without the help of my support in lane is what annoys me.
Yi or yas *
No they cannot. The "carry" part of adc was because THEY needed to be CARRIED through the early game because they are shit early game. Those "plenty of other champions" you mention do not fit that mold at all. People seem to forget this often because it hasnt been stressed in conversations since the early days of league.
When pro games start to look like 3v3 games :o
In Smite, when Hunters (the ADC equivalent role) gets nerfed, the pros throw a fit and play assassins, mages, and bruisers. They usually lose to the players who just keep playing the marksmen and then the meta settles into Hunters being played as the carry all the time, just in a slightly weaker state. Do you think this is the same happening right now in League?
have they ever thought about doing this live? I would be down for it, except I don't know how much they actually edit the podcast.
balance team is running this game straight into the ground
Balance team does not get to do actual balance. They buff champions with high potential to sell a lot of new shiny skins and nerf champions that do not. It has never at any point been about actual balance. They are not a "balance" team they are a "increase profit margins" team. Period.
Maibuwolf now that you say it that has to be true because they never actually balance anything they just make one thing op and alternate that every few months its never balanced just something op something trash
But that is what i meant they call themself balance team but all they do is ruin the game
I feel that this is the first time hearing "our game", is this something that corporate has you guys saying? I don't mind it but it does sound a little "off", just saying.
JoeJoeBear looked through 200 plus comments looking for this. It does sound clunky as hell.
I do not work for riot but you can rest assured that you are correct. They would not all 3 be saying it suddenly at the same time for any other reason.
Bot lane has been OP for so many patches and this meta is the one which every role has the same potential to carry a game
It's funny to hear "gold funneling" as something that is cool and new; when it's been the staple strategy in ranked 3v3 seemingly forever now...
Cant wait to see which teams will represent NA and disappoint NA at Worlds and RR!
robin kim rift rival teams are already out
Riot is like, "OMG UZI IS GOING TO WIN WORLDS, MAKE META HARD FOR UZI!"
That doesn't make sense, Tencent has been waiting for years for a Chinese World Champion.
Nah they just want to see how uzi play other champ different from mask man
actually this meta can be more beneficial for uzi, given the point that he is the most lane dominant adc in the world, he can snowball in this meta really hard on picks like lucian and ez
Uzi has been a monster on Kai'Sa during MSI, and she's still a top adc pick after the changes.
Yeah, but you've all just pointed out precisely 3 ADCs on which Uzi could succeed. The same number of bans a team gets before any selections are made. Teams worried about letting Uzi snowball on a comfortable champ can just ban away his picks, forcing him to a Varus (viable, but weak), or a less favorable pick. Can't just assume it will happen, can't assume it won't.
I love that they put time stamps, Idc at all what they think about the meta.
Kog, kaisa, ezreal, Lucian. They are all not just crit dependent like the other marksmen. They build different , therefor they are stronger. Crit needs to be put back to the way it was.
That set is so classy.
This is actually just the Twisted Treeline meta moving over to Summoner's Rift XD
1 million refreshes later, it's HEEEEEEEEEERE
Wait did they say echo fox mid for academy got 5 day suspended for toxicity in Korean solo queue? That would take some skill to get ban for toxicity in queue where you don't speak the official language of the queue.
Based on the how the Knicks are doing, I think CLG compares favorably to them.
I think this meta is killing the game, honestly. I've watched LCK and it just looks horrid. Might as well make ranked Aram... @Lol Esports...
I'm glad they brought up lucian, kaisa, kog, and ezreal are still being picked. Lucian is the standout champion because essence reaver is extremely busted rn. The other 3 champs all share a common theme, they are noncrit marksmen. BT and Botrk are both buffed and with double tear, ezreal is still pretty good. Kaisa and Kog are fine because guinsoo's wasn't changed and they usually build ap items anyways. Its a chaos down bot rn.
agree, ez (slightly just nerfed a bit) kai'sa whos seen play as pure ap and kog (rage blade) and lucian are the only prominent marksman, lucian is almost completely tied to essence reaver, and the others to rage blade with the exception of ez (double mana stacking recently)
Basically any adc don’t need crit playable lul
"we dont know how to balance our game" hahahaha so much fun
Balance team does not get to do actual balance. They buff champions with high potential to sell a lot of new shiny skins and nerf champions that do not. It has never at any point been about actual balance. They are not a "balance" team they are a "increase profit margins" team. Period. Learn 2 business pls.
what are you talking about? what does selling skins have to do with them removing marksmen from the game? Are you suggesting that people dont buy ADC skins?
They did not remove marksmen. Several are still played and it will stay that way or they force it to stay that way within a patch or two. This is not about what makes logical sense its about what makes business sense. League will never be even remotely close to balanced. It never has been.
your right technically you can still pick marksmen its just worse then a double AP or just throwing an over stated top laner down there with a support. While the financial aspect informs a lot of there decision making. to clam it is the only factor is laughable.
It IS the only factor. That is how every business/company operates. Anything they do is about their bottom line. They only do things that are good for the community/consumer in order to drive up sales. Nothing is ever done for the sole purpose of making the consumer happy.
This is a big change right inline with what they also do between splits. They have yet to iron it all out but i assure you it has far more to do with their bottom line than it does with player happiness. If they can increase profits and play happiness at the same time it is a win/win. If it were to only increase player happiness with no profit increase it would not happen. Period.
Never be so naive that you think a company cares about you. They do not.
I just wanna see:
Karthus/nunu
Taric/yi
Lulu/twitch
Talitah/poppy
Taliyah can flex to be solo or duo jungle.
There's so much that can happen. Just keep lucian/ez banned and the Meta can be so fun to watch.
That pop quiz analogy is on point.
Video quality seems off for me even at 1080p seems somewhat blurry
why are people still making the argument that TSM beats clutch in the long run, they played 7 matches last season and clutch went 5/2 against them
Well they brought up the point that near the end of the split, TSM was performing better than CG, so looking at the final 2 week track record , it seems that TSM would have beaten CG in the long run.
too bad there isn’t a long run and they lost. “if they would have played 10 times clutch would have won 2 or 3” but clutch won the series 3-1 when tsm was considered at their best
Clay Chestnut yep, and since the beginning of this split is “Best of Ones” with a extremely flexible meta, anything can happen.
Chinese boosting strats are now the meta. GG.
Who else thinks that The Dive should be sponsored by Dasani??? or whatever water bottle they use . . .
Efarjeon Aatrox league has a deal with coca cola, coca cola owns Dasani.
I just wanted them to show Dasani water bottles on screen so someone could meme them eventually.
This title is pretty good.
Am i the only one who really doesn’t like this meta from the perspective of an average to above average player? All i get is feeding people thinking they can play whatever now because someone did it once. Why are we going to completely change what roles do?
Well Riot are already discussing Buffs given back to ADC's in 8.13 and have confirmed they are finding a way to nerf the duo mid/jungle strategy.
JAYCAZ1 Im glad to hear it honestly. Im a player who loves having the ability to play a lot of different viable champs, but i just feel this patch crossed the fine line between diversifying strategy and game-changing chaos. Thoughts?
3 less ad for marksman is game changing LMAO
Washer Mashen Yeah, it is, especially when they end up taking away hp regen, max armor, etc.
All told, however, this has been a great patch for me because I get all these people bot laning weird things with no idea how to use them and I just go MF, full lethality, conqueror, and ult the bot into the ground, lol.
"3 less ad for marksman is game changing"
No, getting assblasted in lane by two bruisers while being too poor to afford two items by 30 minutes is game changing. Especially considering how the game is basically over by 10-15 minutes based on who mastered the circus. It's game changing because adcs like kaisa and ez are still just as ridiculous as they were before while anyone that builds crit is basically trolling.
KOBE! Use a coaster! Don’t want to ruin that nice new table now do you?
Ayy it's finally here!
Well done!
About dam time! I had to workout in the morning with no Podcast :/
Well, if it helps, there's a zillion podcasts; maybe you can find a few others you also love.
What other good ones that arent; The Dive, Thoorins content, Hotline League, or Kelseys channel?
Braum mid and Kaisa jungle getting 400 cs before 26 minutes and full build. Yeah not toxic at all. Yeah no counterplay in game unless you duo q and go taric + yi. GG
CLG could succeed since this is Huhi's meta - assassins and aurelion sol are great right now. Still unlikely to win more than nine games obviously. Really is based on whether it is reignover or game over lol
Is Leona jarvan coming back?
me imagining what if with this meta the open meta they revert back the old ardent censer? its either you die early and lose game or you have been save by your soraka haha
C9TH OMEGALUL
Allorim's WuKong would be great to see in LCS this meta, just saying xD
Where's the old table??
I actually do not want to watch LCS until the fixes come through.
It's so hard to watch a well-structured league based on roles become way too open-ended.
It feels so weird and uninteresting to watch.
Champion diversity is good; however, the excessiveness completely kills the "professional" aspect for me and completely guts the structure that Riot has built for years.
Phreak needs to be added to "The Dive". Has a different insight and opinion than Kobe Azazel and Jatt.
I keep thinking bot lane is basically top lane with a support
This meta is awful. I don't even like watching it. It looks like a bronze troll fiesta where people got autofilled and they refuse to play their role.
Jatt thinking putting TSM is a risky move... C'mon bro
MadMrMatter what you said doesn’t even make sense? Cmon man
mo0ko0 I mean situationally what he said does make sense, c'mon dude
tsm fanboy
Hai time to shine
Too bad he doesn’t play professionally anymore . . .
this meta isn't very good at high level play. think about it instead of having a ADC bot that's very squishy we now have tanks and mages like brand with simple abilities. I predict the games will be shorter and can be lost early. if brand is fed bot you can't outplay it lategame. he will shut the other laner out. I'll miss the ADC meta.
Death to this fiesta meta, bring me back to spring
I love this podcast, but what bugs me is that when Riot makes decisions that are unpopular and the community is upset, rather than addressing those concerns in a way that explores those complaints, they spend the entire episode trying to build validity under these changes are and how wrong the community is. Yes, many people have opinions that are dumb and changes to the game are just a healthy way to mix things up as time goes on, but ignoring valid complaints just comes off as disingenuous.
Love the w\show though.
Riot does not allow their employees to talk about a change flat out sucking ass even when it does. These 3 guys are not going to get fired for your entertainment bro.
Wait I’m sad that they didn’t talk about MSI or TL much :( but it’s here finally I guess xD
why would they? with all the new news going on that's big news, us choking in international events isn't as newsworthy
no one wants to dwell on Tl at msi
Jeremy Thomas. Sadly true. Even before MSI, NA analysts ranked TL in the bottom.
I wanted them to have a serious conversation about the issues NA has as a region. The lack of a player base and competition at high elo. I also wanted them to talk about future prospects for each region and how China could be the best region for a while.
I think the dive is mainly focused on NA stuff, they dont focus that much on international regions
Where is muh boi Phreak!?!?
The meta right now is so much more enjoyable to watch, even with these drastic changes... Its league but turned into fights of bloodbath...
Vendetta Taro but it takes away the macro play that is so much fun to watch
*BattleRoyale in a nutshell*
Charging Badger : with these changes pro players will have to adapt their play style... I just can't wait for Worlds
Now I dread professional competitors because they dictate whatever has to be played for most of their career, and now they are playing the game "wrong". After watching three days of LPL and LCK, there was no strategic plan, no marco playing style, and just full of troll bloody boring brainless team fights.
Arthur YAN its because they want league to be a battleroyale.. LOL
Didn't RIOT BAN a player that was a non meta support signed. Is this the same thing
Faleata Pama they originally banned him but got a bunch of backlash and unbanned him
He was banned because he failed to communicate with his team and received lots of reports
lok kkk wrong actually. They banned him because he was falsely flagged as toxic for flaming
a rioter confirmed that he only paste his strats and force his adc to 1v2 without any consensuses before, there are screen captures for proof too. he now doesnt do that and is sometimes streaming on youtube
The gold funneling strats are not fun to play and not fun to play against. This is the biggest problem with the current meta imo.
People didn't even see much of this patch yet and are already complaining. Let there be like 1 week of LCS games and then we can judge how bad it is. These boosting strats are gone next patch anyway. Even if it's only possible for 1/2 weeks people still need to use it properly. A lot of LCK teams horribly failed with for example Nunu/Karthus.
You realize NA has copied Korean strategies for years now correct? We do not need to watch week one of LCS to already know they are going to run the same chaos we are seeing in Korea right now. We already see the chaos globally from the patches current "meta". I firmly believe people have the right to be upset with how terrible the game you once knew turn into a distant memory over the course of 1-2 patches. As a long time player I can easily say I have never seen League in such a horrific state. I'm not quitting the game quite yet but if I do not see hope by the end of the season my mindset very well may change.
that's not true at all. EU was usually always the main region which set the meta. The ADC + support bottom is called EU meta for a reason. Next patch ADC's are probably getting buffed again while snowballing will also get reduced. This will overall bring longer games/crit ADCs back. I doubt this "chaos" will hold on longer than like 2 weeks.
That was season 1...KR wasn't even in the LoL World Championships then... LMFAO
Florian Mutter this didn't age well
Bodied by C9?
they doin my man POB dirty... I can't handle it.
i kinda like the old wood-ish, traditional and simple set better.
Even though I enjoyed watching QT stream with 5 Banners... I agree that they must remove it from the game...because the strategy removed *team fights* into a tower defense game *(CIash Royale)*
No more *all out brawl* just *strategy and macro*
Vendetta Taro already done in my country Vietnam
old set better not gonna lie
Biggest problem with this set I think is the lighting... yikes
Deltrox lighting can always be improved
I like the back wall more, but I like the desk a lot less. That desk is super funky dude lol.
i think League is destroying it self
Clutch biggest underdog 2018
I predict, poke comps rule the na lcs for 1 or 2 months
Can't wait to see uzi on yasou or vlad..
those roster changes on c9 tho
Old set was better :(
Not sure I'm down for late 90's newsroom.
Everyone flames riot
But their changes are so good for future proof
Enabling the whole champion pool while trying to give it a good balance is really hard
Also I wanna thank riot for clash !
No other game has in game tournaments and if they fix it league will be amazing ❤️
Playing clash is 10 times more intense then flex xD
I love Jatt so much holycrap xD SO FUN
The game just feels so bad now. Think I'm gonna try other games until this is sorted out
our game. who trained them to say this so much?
Sebastian Kunstmann trying to retain players by making a sense of community. I know 10 people who stopped playing all of which are not adc players. All games feel bronze now. The didn't like the fiesta.
10/10 timestamps
If the meta doesn't change, at worlds Uzi will have to play against all these Uzi wannabes.
This is the meta/beta for League of Legends 2
It’s a gigabyte marines meta!
What shills for riot, I have always loved this show. Riot employees pandering for a completely terrible change is disgusting.
Gold funneling is NOT new. It's literally a chinese boosting strategy from season 5~6 . . . . . And this cancer has also leaked into Twisted Treeline ranked since season 6.
so ifu are one trick this meta is for u
I stand by my point that hauntzer for the last two years is one of the worst toplaners
Ragnorian lmao.... he is one of the cleanest and most consistent top laners. Idk what games u watch.
I hope the meta stays like this tbh. But honestly I feel like Riot is going to eventually cave in to all the whining from the adc players
The wall in the background is WAY to busy... makes it hard to watch =/
best meta ever :D