You Need To Season Your Grinder: Fact or Cap?
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- Опубликовано: 30 мар 2024
- Here to settle the age old debate- is seasoning fictitious or factual? Legitimate or ludicrous? Mythological or Mandatory?
Hope you enjoy!
Dr. Mark Al-Shemmeri:
IG- kramalshemm...
Seasoning article and data-
/ seasoning-a-coffee-gri...
Calibration article and data-
/ calibrating-a-coffee-g...
Jonathan Gagne article and data-
coffeeadastra.com/2019/05/27/...
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PLEASE READ:
Apparently obligatory addendum.
I do NOT advise everyone go out, buy coffee, and season your grinders. In fact, I say one doesn't need to do it and can just enjoy the improvement over time.
I do not condone loads of coffee waste.
Well, that's hypocritical, isn't it? I waste a decent amount in my testing. Sure. If you dont want to see the potential positive in what I'm doing.
So what is the point of the video if not to push people to waste coffee?
Well, as I said in the video, it is to help
A) reduce shop waste. Many shops don't season, set up recipes, and end up dumping loads of shots. They don't realize what seasoning does and end up wasting more coffee over time.
B) Stave off buyer's remorse. Many have recently been upset at grinder or burr purchases if there is any variability out of box. This is silly. Give it time and it will likely improve.
C) To educate the public so we can pressure manufacturers to pre season because it is ridiculous the onus is on us at these prices.
Cheers
Have you noticed an improvement seasoning hand grinders like the timemore C2 or 1zpresso ZP6? Great content by the way
Translation: I won't take any responsibility as it isn't scientifically proven
Your the king of espresso science everyone values your videos Lance look what you have done for the Espresso world bro!!
Thanks from us!!
@1004k lol translation of your comment- I'm so mad data was shown contrasting what I've been spewing on reddit so I must make comment urgh
On point! We should all learn the variables and how to adjust to get the cup we want. Then seasoning new burs would be and e Joya keep experience that tests our skills as a home barista... ot an actual barista in a shop. All the best! ✌️
I usually just put some salt and pepper on the burrs before grinding my steak.
I normally season my steak with coffee grinds😆
@@marcusherts9345bruuuuuh
@@marcusherts9345 coffee crusted steak is actually delicious
😂
“Don’t forget the S&P bud…”
-Wayne 😂😂
A seasoned Burr Man discussing seasoned burrs. I’m here for it ⚙️
On a somewhat related note I hope you look into covering hyper alignment and the marker test and how much it actually affects particle distribution, as the marker test doesn't truly simulate the grinder under load.
Ooooo, I'm interested in this. I haven't aligned a grinder before, and I was considering doing the marker test soon on my Ode Gen 2. Is there a better method for alignment?
@@nathanvox4763 the question is more if it matters because the grinder will flex somewhat under grinding loads so the variation in alignment during grinding might be higher than the precision at which we align
I think this is the only real video on seasoning. Thank you for filling the need!
Just another banger of a video. Excellent, concise summary with beautiful footage. I've always loved your videos, but it's awesome to see you continually hone and perfect your craft! This is some seriously high quality content.
Just received my 2024 Acaia Orbit today and decided to put 40 pounds of medium roast coffee through it. It took 2 full days of grinding to make sure the grinder wasn’t overloaded and the results were pretty interesting. With the Mazzer 33M burrs, burr lock to touch was 1.2 on the orbit dial it’s now just barely 0.2! This is with the factory alignment too.
I don’t know why this grinder doesn’t get much love but IMHO this is the best 64mm grinder on the market. Its quality and build are evident as soon as you turn it on. You can program every function you can think of and the app is intuitive to use and you only have to use it once to program the grinder. If you add a Lunar scale you can add functionality that only high end commercial grinders have.
Thank you Lance for everything you do!!
Thank you for making this video me and many others have asked for many times over! ❤🎉
Yes! I have been waiting for this video specifically. The lack of information on this causes lots of uncertainty.
Bought a new flat burr grinder last summer and couldn't justify the impact of several kilos of coffee wasted for the seasoning process. Somewhere around 10-20 bags of coffee in i was no longer chasing grind size wildly up and down and clarity and draw down time was much improved for my pour overs. Anecdotal without particle distribution of course, but I'm a believer in the need for seasoning.
Likewise here. Maybe I'm just a less particular coffee person, but the coffee I got at the start and the coffee I drink now years of "seasoning" later is great. I'm sure there's some slight difference but it feels immensely wasteful to grind kilos of coffee you don't plan on using.
After graduating I am going to get me either 078S. I was wondering how you dealt with the variability with your grind settings?? Do you do anything while the burrs are seasoning? Im not keen on throwing coffee into it straight away so i was gonna just drink my daily amount until its seasoned
@@danielkwan1999 My new grinder is the 064s. I found that I needed to start a little coarser than I expected but was able to fine up the grind over time. The issue I was running into early was stalling, muddy brews, but nothing undrinkable by any means. The past couple of months I haven't changed my process a great deal, it just tastes like something has unlocked better brews and I'm able to run beans much finer with cleaner and faster draw downs.
@@danielkwan1999 Basically, be patient and trust the process. Know that much better coffee is coming your way which I think is pretty in line with what Lance was summarizing in this video.
@@max1000000ify thx dude!!!!! I am also considering the 064S if i have not saved enough. Its good to hear that while seasoning coffee is not going to be unpleasant!!!!!
Mark has so many interesting research out there, and a lot of it is fairly unknown (although properly documented). Thanks for bringing this to a wider audience Lance!
My experience aligns with the findings of this video. When I first used my Eureka Mignon Facile, my first few pulls were in the range of +2.0 to +2.5. After almost 200 shots, my settings now hover around +0.75 to +1.0 and are more sensitive to even the smallest changes. Between different roasts, the variability between settings is usually +/- 0.25, whereas in the beginning it can be as much as +/- 1.
Thank you. My new grinder is somewhat inconsistent and I'm now optimistic this will rectify over time.
Lance with impeccable timing! Dropping a video right when I was getting ready to make espresso
YES! Thanks so much for making this!!! Took a while but glad I requested this (probably one of many many subscribers who have asked! 😂).
Thanks to Lance and all the other contributors.
So exciting to see more lab data being used in coffee vids!
Happy Easter coffee video!
Great video Lance! Didn't think it'd make such big differences immediately, I thought it'd be more gradual but the data showed otherwise!
When you think about it, 5kg is just a few months at home, or at most a few days at a cafe, so it might be worth seasoning the burrs immediately before use.
But I still think it's better to just keep in mind that your new grinder hasn't hit it's full potential and compensate by dialing in more often. Waste is waste, even in bigger businesses, and it's not like an internal combustion engine where your "break-in" period is gonna affect the lifespan and performance throughout the rest of it's lifetime.
I only found your channel yesterday but I've watched several videos and I like what I see. Very helpful and informative. I've a Profitec Pro 700 on order with a Eureka Mignon Libra grinder and I can't wait for delivery and to put my learnings to practice. Cheers Lance.
Yep glad you mentioned that grinder or burr companies should be pre seasoning for the consumers especially if it makes a big difference with the burrs. For me I didn't think unseasoned burrs produced bad coffee besides with the ssp cast v2. Which had no flavour clarity. Used them for a while and got rid of them probably before they got seasoned. Similarly noticed with other lab sweet style cast burrs the Mizen omni burrs v1 I was getting astringency on pour overs on the finish. But after just a little seasoning it went away. It was still tasting a lot better than I remember ssp cast and the Mizen seemed fine for espresso without seasoning.
Lance always understands me, recently bought my df64 and i was wondering about this topic
Agreed, it my experience in the dozens of high end grinders I've owned. It was somewhat required if you wanted to be getting the best out of them on day 1. I ended up requiring the most seasoning in my 98mm coated burrs. They would eventually grind faster and start tasting better. For my cafes time based grinders, they'd get more consistent the more coffee that ran through them
Great video Lance, you’re really killing it lately and have firmly taken top spot as my favourite coffee RUclipsr!
Question: in your experience do SSP burrs need to be seasoned as much, more or less than normal burrs? Thinking of picking up the MP for my DF83
With ssp MP in 64mm I thought they maybe got a bit toned down in their intensity / acidity after a while of using them. But I'm not sure if they need seasoning. I compared p64 and zerno with the those burrs except one was likely seasoned other was not. Couldn't really tell the dif.
Lance I really enjoy your videos. I'm an engineer and very data driven, so the content is helpful.
However, I recommend you include a TLDR at the end that wraps everything up as simple as possible and provide your preferred technique. This will give folks a easy to understand baseline from which they can experiment using or more in depth info you provided.
This can be applied to all your videos. I watched the burr comparison and didn't walk away knowing what your preference was. Pick a 64mm and 83mm grinder. For both, perform a blind taste test using light and another round with dark roast. Score them in various attributes, then rank at the end.
Happy Easter burr man!
Seasoning improves coffee I had read before but either I always missed or it was never mentioned that it improves consistency. I picked up a DF83 recently and have not seasoned it nor intend to but the (I think decreasing) variability in pulling shots has been confounding. Thanks for this!
As a metal fabricator this seems very similar to cutting tools, saw blades last longer if you break the blades in with slow cut on mild steel. The extremely sharp tips from manufacturing the blades is very fragile so you want to slightly dull them before going into high speed and feeds cuts. So the video makes sense to me other than term of seasoning, breaking in makes more sense.
thx - very plausible explanation (with the fines produced be very sharp new burrs..)
Just catching this video now Lance, and enjoyed it, and appreciate you putting it out. I am working on a Rancilio Stile first look, and noted to a Rancilio distributor that the negative reviews on the grinder on Amazon already are clearly by people who didn't give the grinder a break in period, didn't let the burr season on an excellent grinder that CLEARLY needs seasoning before it settles down into repetitive, consistent function. I told the distrib. this info was going to be hammered hard in my First Look, and he said "did you see Lance's video on the subject?", voila, here I am. If it's cool with you, when I get to that part about seasoning, I'll embed this video of yours in the First Look.
of course you can! Thanks for watching, friend!
This video very much validated my experience. 2 years ago I upgraded from a decade old Baratza Encore to a DF64 with SSP Unimodal burrs. Besides that it was just a completely different beast of a grinder, I couldn't make a good and consistent cup for like 2 months lol dawned on me after watching this, it's probably because my burrs weren't seasoned!
Thanks for the great vid again!
What do you mean by taking care of our grinder? Opening it up and cleaning the burrs with a brush, and so on?
Ok, so the greatest takeaway is that I should probably give my 83mm mazzer another year or so for seasoning in home environment!
Thx for the video!
Great video @LanceHedrick! I'd love to see similar videos on long term maintenance for grinders...like how often to change burrs. What espresso basket do you use on the regular?
I don’t understand many people writing about waste. I go to my local coffee roaster and ask for failed roasts and get these beans for seasoning. They always have some lying around.
Oh this is a brilliant idea!
Ayy greetings from New Zealand, can’t believe I’m this early to a Lance video 👀 it’s 1st April here so I’ll watch with my guard up just incase lol
Perfect timing Lance, just got a DF64Gen 2, will be heading to ALDIs to get some beans for seasoning. Any suggestions on the amount needed? Great video my man.
Great insight as always. Any comments on some of the specific burrs, 83v in-house vs ssp vs mazzer? In your opinion is one better out of the box or take a bit less time to be in the sweet range?
My df83 is now 9 months on my countertop using it everyday. It has just evened out in the last month or so. It is now very consistent on the several settings I use often
Thank you Lance! Now it would be very interesting to know what seasoning does EXACTLY to your burrs. I‘m kind of hooked on the idea that the coffee oils do something to the burrs. Everytime I use my urnex Grindz for a quick clean of the burrs, I noticed that my grinder setting has changed completely, even with the same type of coffee!
Maybe that has to do with retained fines that usually make it into your brew and that are absent if you have just cleaned your grinder
OMG, you’ve just opened my eyes 😳 I am new to coffee and not that long time ago I decided to spend some money for a decent grinder. And I really thought that the variability I was getting was just a grinder defect. But now it’s just a whole new world 😅
Another great video like always!!
Lance what you suggest for the Eureka mignon XL
How much black dark beans i need ti seasoning the 65mm burrs? A LBS id beans ? New in this so need to be more specific if you don’t mind!!
I have the Lelit Bianca V3
Thank you Lance and happy easter 🐣
Thanks Lance. I wish your video came out last year. I was struggling with a very inconsistent grinder then and it would have been reassuring to know it will get better. The grinder has since settled down beautifully to give great espresso shots. And yup, it took about 4 kg of beans. During the process, the shot quality was wildly variable 😅
Make sure to drop a like and subscribe and maybe a comment if feeling spicy/seasony. Hope you enjoyed!
I though I was wasting coffee dialing in espresso. This takes it to the next level
Good thing i don't advise doing it! @jooger69
@@LanceHedrick Still I suspect that we will get the odd youtube short "My espresso routine". "First I start by grinding 20 kilos of coffee to season my grinder. Then RDT..."
@@jooger69 doubtful
Is there anything about the coffee world that the legend Lance hasn’t really presented? Thank you sir keep up the good work! 🥰🥰🥰☕️☕️☕️
Love the video Lance.
I was wondering if you could do a video series where you compare different burr sets of the same size. You could do a video on 54mm, another on 64, 84 and so on. I know I would be really interested to see how different burrs affect extraction, body, clarity, and flavor profiles. The series could be called the burr man's burrtastic extraction extravaganza. Or not, just a thought.
Thanks for what you do burr man.
Hi Lance ! Awesome and perfectly timed as usual ! I just found a cheap Ditting Kr 805 that im planning to modify and use home mostly for espresso. I was thinking to buy the ssp "sweet lab" red speed 80mm blind burrs for it. Do you think that these burrs would do great for espresso and also what kind of coffee quantity should i run thru to concider it seasoned ? Thanks burrman 😅
I bought an ecm v titan, and it was impossible to deal with first, but after a while, it came around and is now really good.
It has titanium burrs and its lightning fast, which made it even harder to dial in. I almost got rid of it, but now I'm glad I didn't.
What season are we in? Not Spring but Coffee 🤣
❤️ the videos Lance. Keep it up!
Coffee knowledge bangers don't stop with Lance at the helm
Burr seasoning makes sense as I remember struggling quite hard grinding for espresso using my k-max hand grinder the first week or so.
I believe in seasoning burrs, and I'm glad that the science agrees with it. It's much more feasible than, say, burning in headphones. Now one thing I'm still curious about is how much damage to grinder burrs from something like pebbles can affect the grinding process. I've been seeing a lot of mention of burrs getting damaged by rocks lately...
what's the best season to season the grinder for season blends based on coffee harvest season? let that season in :) Thanks @Lance! A real question after seasoning with "cheap coffee" should we do a thorough clean up of the grinder? Also using coffee beans directly from freezer would it help the heat build-up?
@lanceHedrick thanks for the video big fan. Any recommendations for how much coffee to put through the Zerno w SSP HU to get that adequately seasoned? Just looking for a rough idea.
Pretty much sums up my journey with my Sculptor 078S. I ran like 2 kg of cheap beans through it before using it for espresso. But it wasn't enough. I was so frustrated by the inconsistency. I've had differences up to 10 seconds on the same grind size. Only after using it for a longer time, it got better. I was on the verge of selling it, because of the inconsistency. Now it is very reliable.
Roughly, How many more kg of coffee did you use (on top the 2 kg)?
@@beltranybarradavila-armero6821 I'd say about 4-6 kg. I opened the grinder once to check how it's doing, and I did find 0,4 g of old coffee in there, which is basically nothing.
Just got a new zp6 yesterday, couldn't have been better timed!!!
Hey @lancehedrick how do screw holes affect seasoning of flat burrs? Do they require more or less than blind burrs, and do they respond differently throughout the seasoning process?
My question is ... will this just happen over time? Gradually you will get a better cup?
Love the video thanks for the info!!
Of course!
thanks man, in a weird coincidence, i just ordered 2kg of "badly roasted coffee" (they sell it at cost price) from the local coffee shop i usually buy coffee from, to further season my flat burr 64mm grinder. just knew it was an actual thing to be done
It seems to me that “breaking in” is a more accurate term than “seasoning”, due to the nature of the process. However, the term is probably entrenched in the coffee community, so it’ll be confusing the rest of the world for the foreseeable future. Humans…
Hance Ledrick told me to vary my grind size mid grind to vary the distribution for maximum taste confusion.
Nice video! Could you do one comparing different grinding speeds (high vs low rpm) on grinders with an auger, like the sculptor 78s/64s? I would be interested in the effect of different rpm's on the throughput of the auger. Say a higher speed causes more popcorning and thus lower volume of coffee per minute being fed to the burrs, this might result in more uniform grinding/less traffic jamming in de grind chamber, or perhaps there is some sort of sweet spot. Or do you think this is nonsense right of the bat?
Was there a study for conical? Seems like you mentioned thinking they needed less than flats but was there any proof of that?
So, yes seasoning burrs is a real thing getting more consistency in grind size, I can only assume that it is more detrimental for those that are grinding for espresso, and not so detrimental for those grinding for pour over or french press type brewing. I myself have not gone down the home espresso rabbit hole, so Im not really stressing about rapidly seasoning my SSP-MP burrs for my pour overs. Ten kilo grams, 10,000 grams is about 6 months of brewing 3 cups daily using 18 grams of coffee per cup. Something to look forward to, I guess.
Whenever I season burrs I just give away the coffee to people I know that buy pre ground anyways. It’s win win and no waste.
How about flat burr hand grinder? I have the Pietro, when you did the testing with them, did you actually season them before you test all the prototypes?
When I got my Atom 75 I had a month of doubt and buyers remorse.
It was so hard to dial in. Worse than my Mignon.
Then slowly it got better.
The failed shots made me go through more coffee than usual.
Now it is like a dream. Compared to my 50mm Mignon it is so much more predictable when turning the dial.
At the start on my Atom I would under and over shoot even with small adjustments.
I have accidentally seasoned my cone burr grinder. It's better now. These items are meant to be owned for a prolonged period, they have a little break in time. Makes perfect sense.
If I season cast iron, I usually coat them with avocado oil and put it on the highest setting in the oven which is usually 250C or 482F. Would you recommend to do the same thing with your burrs? Do you know if the Eureka Libra 65 will come preseasoned?
Kind of like how there's a break-in period with speakers. Things take time to get better through use.
And when would you recommend to change the burr set?? 🤔🤔
i'm fairly fussy about maintaining equipment. i grew up in the bush in northern canada, keeping things working is essential
i was wondering how common it was to disassemble and clean coffee grinders because i do mine once a month, i go through only 1.5kg max a month
Hey Lance, as a makeshift blind shaker, I've been shaking my DF64 catch cup with my palm covering the top.
I noticed if I shake it with my palm slightly moist (rinse hand, dry 90% off), I will get a TON of fines stuck to my hand which I can just rinse off. I don't see a single non-fine particle stuck. Any chance this could be tested as a means of improving filter clarity, especially for higher fines-producing grinders?
Looking to buy a grinder that can handle light roasted espresso to French press coffee. What would you recommend? I’m not afraid to spend a decent amount of money for a long term solution. Any suggestions?
how does RPM affect fines in a cone burr? I use a power drill to grind my coffee on a KinGrinder k6.
Ah, possibly answers a question on my mind today, as I've been using a new DF64 the past few days, and noticing I keep having to dial a little finer each day...
I noticed you called out the DF83. I have a DF83 V2 and have consistency problems. I'm not sure if it is purely seasoning, I notice that as it heats up, zero point moves. It can be 2 ticks on the dial in a finer direction (not coarser). If I then let it sit overnight, it's back to coarser, for the chirp. Then as I use it, even minutes apart, it moves finer. Repeat ad nauseam. This is very reproducible for me. Does anyone else have a similar experience? The espresso brew times seem to reflect this as well, as it gets faster and faster. Then the next day, it'll choke if I leave it, having moved the dial by 4 notches.
he blinded me with science!
I need to know is what is the proper size mug to make a latte! I have the awesome dragon glassware double walled shot glasses which hold a double espresso shot perfectly & the 6 oz espresso cups with a handle, but I make a bunch of lattes and the stainless steel tin holds a lot of milk so I’ve been using old school large widemouth round ceramic 12 ounce coffee mugs so I can fit almost all of the steamed milk and it’s wide enough to “attempt” latte art! Just made a latte in the 6oz latte glasses and it holds half the milk!
Perfect timing since I just got a new conical burr grinder 😂😂😂
I have a Sculptor 78S that just would not give me consistent grinds to start with. I thought 5KGs of beans would be enough to season it. Nope. It needed somewhere around 12KGs of beans for me to start seeing somewhat reasonable consistency. Looks like it will take a few KGs yet to get it running optimally. It's a good thing that I still have my Silenzio for the time being.
Is hand grinder seasoning something to consider too?
Perfect accompaniment to my morning cup I just brewed
Lance, a while ago you mentioned that the 078 doesn’t really need seasoning. (Maybe because of ghost burrs?) Do you still feel that way? Thanks!
1hr club! Well-seasoned video.
9:37 this topic brought the “Madea” out in Lance
If you are worried about the motor with rice you can use instant rice, its softer.
I did brew something tasty today with my ZP6. Does seasoning apply to hand grinders, too? I'd be curious to know
He said it applies to all burrs, but for cone burrs, the need for seasoning is much lower. I'm not sure if the slow speed of rotation on hand grinders changes that fact or not. Either way, I don't know if I'm ready to grind 5 kilos of coffee on any hand grinder... Unless using a hand drill to grind that coffee.
Had this experience with the Niche Duo--I thought seasoning it with 1kg would be sufficient but things jumped around a good bit until I'd gotten 3-5kg through it. I thought I had just convinced myself that things had gotten better, but seems like I wasn't making it up.
If the goal is to reduce burrs on your burrs can we test buffing with some material? Curious if we can get most of the way to ‘seasoned’ without wasting a bunch of coffee and time.
Took almost 12 pounds of beans to season my 078s to stop the channeling. Taste was great right at the start, but had massive channeling. All gone now 👌🏽
you've just made all grinder reviews obsolete, cause i doubt the reviews had at least 5KG of seasoning first 😅😅
Insane question.
If you season burrs and then swap rotating and stationary one, are they still seasoned?
Fantastic video yet again, Lance. Ignore the "coffee waste tho!" negative Nelly's and Nelson's. You provide outcome data so people can set expectations and make informed choices. As you said over the life of the grinder, a seasoned grinder performs better and wastes less coffee from horrible shots. Anyway, love your work, keep it up!
I mean we *really* shouldn’t ignore multi kilogram waste. Manufacturers should be doing this for us with better methods that don’t require that much waste on the consumer side.
@@Girvo747 and that is literally what @lancehedrick said. He is not advocating for waste. He is merely stating it's either that or continue as usual until burrs are seasoned.
I wonder if seasoning is as important when slow feeding beans?
9:50 - abso-bloody-lutely! Almost all reviews are done with un-seasoned burrs... unfortunately the pressure to churn out content means no time to wait for putting out a review on the latest cool thing, and even more limiting is that many grinders are lent to the reviewers, so there is no practical, easy opportunity to season with 5kg of darker roasts before reviewing and returning the grinder... I guess reviewers should make a clear (this is not a seasoned grinder) disclaimer for each video!
Do hand grinders need seasoning as well?
Could regrinding the same coffee repeatedly provide the same seasoning benefit while reducing waste?
I agree manufactures really should take care of it, I remember it clearly with the EK and the 20kg I had to go through before it was truly seasoned, I got coffee from a cupping competition so it was going out in the bin anyway… but normally it’s annoying especially on home grinder that aren’t built for that flow. It just take an immense effort and time to season with even 10kg of coffee and only is viable if you get failed roast from your local roaster, buying cheap darker beans that others would have used I don’t think environmentally is a good idea, failed roast is another matter because it is going to be tossed out anyway.
Where can I get that shirt?
Does it make sense to regrind the same beans just for seasoning?