To be fair, if someone didn't know what a wavedash was, they would know that there is some obvious jank going on with Luigi. The other characters don't look like they have black ice on their feet.
Carter Marshall ahoy spongebob! I have over extended against a Luigi at 0% and will now lose a stock to a 0 to death combo and will start of the game in a terrible position! Agagagagag
What's up when announcing in early September that the developers were going to introduce home run contest to ultimate, sakurai was showing off that you could do it with too people as-well. He then proceeded to show himself doing co-op home run contest with two different controllers by himself, then suddenly said mid-way through showing “NO! That’s isn’t how you’re supposed to play the game!” Continuing to say how you should be playing with friends in co-op and not by yourself. Of course that got tuned into a meme and here we are 7 months later
Yes infact I'm pretty sure he named it After further research I have found he added it to make absolute donkey sh*t wavedashes compared to others of course such as Bowser's and ganons better and actually usable
@@rosheafan that's exactly what i was going to say: it's not koopabackdashwaveshinehoverwalkmoonlanding, it's koopabackdashwaveslidehoverwalkmoonlanding
It's unfortunate. I think he meant it as like. A cool option you could use like dodging. Somethin cool to pull off with friends for some added fun plays. But, of course, he didn't mean for it to become such a PROMINENT thing, as in the very thing used for moving almost everywhere on the stage. Hence why he removed it trying to lessen the gap between competitive and casual players. As a casual myself, I'd love to be able to wavedash and do all that sorta fancy stuff while not taking the game to seriously. Why? Simple. I may not be willing to put in 2,000 hours of grind breaking my hands. But Minecraft Stephen hitting someone with the wavedash jab up air into a lava block finisher (cause no way am I gonna be able to do that fancy up air build string) Just. Look at that stupid cube man. Shmovin around. Beating up SEPHIROTH. Only in smash bros.
Backdashing is from regular fighting games, it's just dashing backwards (while still facing your opponent, as opposed to dashing back like in melee). It's a known fact that Sakurai has always been a fighting game fan and it's neat that he immediately realized you could microspace using wavedash back
I literally spent 20 minutes writing a long comment about the whole debate about "glitches vs. features" in the software community, and you capture the same idea with a meme. I applaud you lol
@@nicocchi - lol, yeah - that's why we call it wavedashing, because we all tried to call it mad dashing, but couldn't because of copyright, and the Tekken devs hadn't thought to copyright wavedashing :P
Technically, its in all of them but smash 64 (I think). All you need is a slippery floor and code allowing you to transfer movement to such floor. No need to program a specific "wavedash" code. Its what makes objects and characters slide about the way they do in the smash games when wind, slopes, or other forces (like knockback) interact with other game pieces like items and characters.
@@lefrancais8808 Not even that, you just need a force to push you around. Airdodging just happens to be the most readily available, consistent, and accessible option. Wavedashing is short hand for sliding on demand. Again, wavedashing isn't something specifically coded in the game like jumping or attacking, its an interaction that emerges when certain parameters are met in the game engine. Its what makes it special and unique from other actions in the game.
It's worth mentioning that the very concept of comboing in fighting games wasn't originally meant to be part of SF2's design. They just noticed that you could cancel one move into another and ran with it because it looked cool.
See I hate Streer Fighter for just that reason. It's entire meta and gameplay is built on bugs and glitches. And to think they noticed it during development, too. That's just poor design smh my head.
@@poopheadtwenty-seven540 it's not really poor design since it doesn't ruin the game. It's just a happy accident. Now Guile's death combos are poor design.
It's the exact same situation as combos in Street Fighter II The developers didn't intend it to happen, but when they noticed it, they decided to keep it The only thing separating a glitch and a feature is developer intent
Not even that. When you find a glitch, but don't have the resources to fix it without sacrificing something more important, you still kept it intentionally, but it's not necessarily a feature.
"The only thing separating a glitch and a feature is developer intent" Wrong. A Glitch is a bug or programming error than can break a game. Wavedashing was an unintented game mechanic (exploit) but Sakurai left that in the game intentionally, so wavedashing can't be qualified as an exploit now.
A glitch in Melee would be for example the Freeze Glitch, the Yo-Yo glitch, Name Entry, and other things like that because there is no logical explanation of why those things happen, it's simply bad coding.
@@saricubra2867 Wavedashing was intended. Sakurai intends for you to move when you airdodge. Sakurai intends for you to slide when you have momentum on the ground. Therefore, Sakurai intends for you to slide when you airdodge into the ground. If he didn't intend for this to happen, then what did he want to happen instead? Us as users can't make a contradictory judgement especially considering the fact that it already follows logical sense. Also Wavedashing isn't a mechanic. Airdodge is a mechanic. Jump is a mechanic. Wavedash is simply a name WE GAVE to a specific combination user actions. Just like how WE GAVE Marth fair into dair the name "Ken Combo". Sakurai doesn't care if fair combos into dair. Sakurai doesn't care if you slide on the ground from an airdodge.
Melee is the younger one out of the bunch against Tekken and MvC, especially competitively so I'm not surprised we went through a "Mad Dash" of names before adopting what another community used.
The dude at 5:33 was a guy who responded to me saying most ppl who play ultimate don’t enjoy it because of how much they complain, how much they ask for buffs, nerfs, etc. He then went on to make many baseless statements about melee citing how we only use about 4 characters, how we’re such a toxic community, and so on.
@@NAFEDUDE I wouldn't classify "only 4 viable characters lol" "such a glitchfest lmao" "you guys just cheat the game lol" as criticism. Those are just baseless statements.
To be fair, KBD and wavedashing aren't that different in that regard, both use intentional mechanics, in an unintentional way (Since Tekken's backdash is meant to be cancellable into anything), so both are exploits, one that Namco didn't like, and KBD was removed in Tekken 4, but that pissed off high level players, so it was brought back, but Namco still doesn't like KBD, or good movement much, which is why games kept messing with how good movement is (6.0 had way worse movement than 5/DR, 6BR made it a bit better, both versions of Tag 2 had significantly better movement than BR, then Tekken 7 nerfed it again with no improvements in FR).
I admit I used to be one of those people. Back in the day, I would crusade to trash melee and call it a glitch fest. I did it because I was mad. I was angry the first time I experienced getting thrashed by a wavedasher. It's just an advanced technique, but I refused to use it and wanted to be a purist. What an idiot I was. I should have just learned how to wavedash instead of crying online. Even in Brawl and beyond I got thrashed by amazing combos, and still got mad even without the presence of wavedash. This is when I realized how stupid I had been. I was just bad at the game, and I would still be bad at it for many years. Now I am finally good at the game, after playing for so many years Smash Ultimate has made me see the light. It's all just practice and hard work that pays off, there was no shortcut, no glitch that made people beat me for free. I wouldn't even call it an exploit. I am admitting this because I feel like I ruined the internet community's opinion of melee, and I was wrong. You shouldn't have to call this an exploit in your video just to please the naysayers I helped create over the years. It's an advanced tech, a user-created way to play the developers did not intend, but makes the game better as a whole. Just have fun guys, and learn/improve to make it even more fun. I wish I could erase this argument from the internet, so there you have it. I'm sorry.
It's annoying to see people try to discredit Melee for it's "imperfect" mechanics. Sure, "exploitfests" require a lot of practice to play well, but those who are passionate about playing Melee learn these exploits anyways. In fact, future Smash titles even have alot of unintentional and intentional exploits
@Awakened Virtue I guess that is partially true, but Smash was never really advertised as a "competitive, high-skill-ceiling" fighting game, even if Smash Ult acts as a better introduction to fast-paced Smash
@@GenericSpartaRemixer ult is faster, but it is soooo easy to play (not at high level, just to learn). Even compared to smash 4, just being able to short hop consistently makes the game much more accessible. It's obvious they wanted to attract as many players as possible this time
@@ovenishot7173 Wavedashing is the result of the intentional airdodge sliding. Since the developers knew about it, and didn't want to constrain it from x frames after jumping which would be incredibly easy, it is intended. In the computer world, "bug" is coined by a literal bug (moth) jammed in a physical relay. If you want to get even deeper into that original semantic, a bug is not just an unintended error but a physical or software(compiler) error that should not happen by the logic of the program. (i.e. bad/unconstrained programming is not a bug, it is bad programming.)
@LeCoolFace Don't try to make stuff up. Sakurai said it was removed to "appeal to players of all levels." Which is kind of a farce, if you're not competitive in the first place it doesn't effect casual play.
I've been playing smash bros since it came out in the N64, every game has some exploit or advanced technique, I think Melee's haters are jealous of how incredibly timeless the gameplay is.
Star masterc sorry to split hairs, but technically ult doesn’t have wavedashing only wavelanding since you can’t airdodge for a bit after jumping in ult
@@NoctuaOlivaeTechnically wavedashing still exist if wavelanding is possible. Yeah, obviously you can't do wavedashing multiple times due to the lag, but few characters are more capable of doing a better wavedash and a very competent one at least once.
I love your channel. I'm sure people comment this all the time, but even though I'm not a huge fan of watching or playing Melee, your videos, both the compilations and the analyses, are fucking awesome. Every one of your analysis-style videos is a must-watch for me, I love learning more about this game. Please keep doing what you do.
When Jonathon Blow was developing Braid, he said that by messing around with the different systems and mechanics, he discovered new interesting ways they could work together. “In a way, the game designed itself”, he said while giving a presentation about the game. This is how I see the advanced techniques in melee, results of systems in the game working together in surprising ways.
Its explanations in video form like this that make me believe that Melee is the greatest Smash game ever designed. And I mainly play Ultimate, but I will forever love Melee. A toast to Melee!
Ultimate is very good because it learned from Melee and Smash 64. If Sakurai reduced the awful 100ms of input lag and weird buffer in Ultimate, then it's a close call with Project M or legacy XP since Melee's content pales incomparison to other games since Brawl.
Star masterc that’s exactly what some of the ultimate people don’t seem to get, we don’t play Melee for how much content it has, we play it because of how the game works, how the movement works, we play melee because we like the game, melee players wouldn’t switch to ultimate or pm just like that
@@lightbrand_ Project M or Legacy XP are the perfect unreleased smash games as official. They are so well balanced, everyone is broken, like in Smash 64. Not even Melee is so well balanced like in Smash 64 or those famous Brawl mods.
@@armpitbeard2031 broken as fuck, too. Wavedashing being an unintentional exploit only left in to avoid breaking the game doesn't mean Melee itself isn't a glitchfest. Save the sad exploits and glitch abuse for speedrunners, and play competitively the real way.
Reminds me a lot of the mockball from Super Metroid. I guess no one really knows if it’s intended but it’s so useful and its most famous use, to roll under gates to access super missiles or ice beam early works so smoothly that it feels like the devs either coded it and designed those gates with it in mind, or noticed it in development and left it in just for the sake of it being fun to do and since they already put a bunch of hidden mechanics in the game for sequence breaking like wall jumping and shine sparking, why not? Like with the “jump + air dodge into the ground to conserve momentum” explanation for wave dashing, you can explain the science behind mockball as “jump + morph as you hit the ground to cancel bounce animation and conserve momentum”, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t intended, it just means you can explain how it works. Anyways love your videos big papa
2:13 Top Ten Biggest Anime Plot Twists of All Time Joking aside though Jesus Christ man your delivery when you say “It was Masahiro Fucking Sakurai” is genuinely one of the best line deliveries I’ve ever heard in my life.
The existence of ultimate's wave dash, minus the ability to do it repeatedly proves that melee's wave dash was meant to happen, but not to the extreme that the players have used it
Melee borrowed the term from Tekken Over 20 years later, Kazuya is now in Ultimate And he is now the only one with a practical wavedash in Smash We've come full circle
Well, prices notably drop at the end of the 90's, for example the saturn was 400$ fucking dollars, and the later console (Dreamcast) was just 200$. The n64 drop was really low un comparison, from 200$ to just the price You mentioned for the Gamecube (but i'm surprised that it's 100$ fucking dollars for the console AND the BEST selling Game of the GC, that's ridiculously cheap)
Disclaimer: I haven't messed with Melee's code personally, this is an educated guess. Wavedashing isn't a glitch. The *absence* of wavedashing would me more akin to a glitch. The grounded and aerial states of a character, like all character states, have code that dictates how the character should transition from one state to another. I'd assume that the transition from aerial to grounded recalculates the velocity vector to be purely horizontal. This behavior could only be created intentionally, and as it is working as intended, there is no glitch. Now let's imagine a world where the developers forgot to code the transition from aerial state to grounded state properly. The velocity vector would still be moving the character down, relatively, opening up the possibility for phasing though the collision. This would no doubt be a oversight, could be called a glitch. Hopefully my conjecture here isn't too far off. Melee modders do your worst if you need to correct me.
I could well imagine that the game retains your momentum when you wavedash because the code doesn't tell it to do anything else rather than because the code tells it to do that. The former would make it a physics exploit, while the latter would make it not even that. It would just be an intended mechanic.
They could have coded it more akin to a platformer, where landing cancels part of your velocity vector. That probably felt too slow for Melee’s pace though, so they had a different transition function so you could “hit the ground running”. The exploit arises when you add the air dodge’s acceleration. If wavedashing itself were intentional, it would just be a mechanic, not even an exploit. Testers noticed that the mechanics created unexpected behavior when functioning properly and just left it in. That’s what makes it an exploit. If, instead, the player normally hits the ground using a platformer-like transition function but adding the air dodge makes the function wonky, that would be a glitch.
@@52flyingbicycles Yes! Wavedashing is a consequence of Melee's almost more sim-like design (comparing the "platform fighter" genre to traditional platformers or fighters), where the systems designed interact with each other as "naturally" & reusably as possible.
my issue with it is how unfun it is to use. Rivals of aether fixed the usablility issues by making the jumpsquat of all characters 5 frames giving sufficient and consistent time for every character to use it while also making directly sideways airdodges wavedash as well so you don't have to do angles which the controller doesn't natively support so you don't have to muck up your controller to use its full potential consistently.
Respectable opinion! I also dislike their variability among different controllers and having to “notch” controllers for consistent maximum-length wavedashes.
It *kinda* feels like an ascended glitch, if they *discovered* it during development, saw it didn't seriously break the game (crash or long-term affect the experience), and then decided "That's rad. Keep it in."
Many hate Melee saying its popular only because of the amount of "glitches" (most of which arent glitches at all). Theyre nearly all just advanced tech, like a wavedash, L cancel, shine out of shield, etc. It gives the game depth and creativity. It's fun to watch it and play it that way. Basically, get good.
noooo i must be able to pick up the game and do everything instantly i dont want to learn or practice or feel my execution and gameplay improve over time slowling implementing new tricks and techniques. i don't play or watch smash often but when i do it's always melee. being more of a traditional fighting game guy i really do envy how sick melee is with its movement options and the way it just opens up so much new shit to play with. giving the player more options is never really a bad thing, even if it came from a 'glitch/exploit/bug'. thats what makes melee so insanely interesting, the roughest diamond in the rough but god damn you polish that bad boy up and you have something stupidly special.
I think the main reason people are so hostile to Melee, calling it a "glitchfest" and whatnot, is because of how so many people are insistent on Melee being the "best Smash Bros." Some even take it too far and get toxic about it (thus leading to people being toxic back). And yeah, as a casual player I do think Melee is overrated just a bit. Its only really "fun" in competitive play.
Calling wavedashing a glitch is like calling rocket jumps or look-down glitches in their respective games. It's not a malfunction, just a quirk of the engine
The first games are debatable, but rocket jumps are definitely intended mechanics in TF2, since if a class who isn't meant to rocketjump does, they fly way farther than those who are meant to.
Agree!! I never understand why people trashtalk Melee saying it's a Glitchfest (Or better said in the video; Exploitfest haha) that's a dumb statement. No other game has the gamplay depth and amazing skill that melee has. If people don't like it, it's ok, but that doesn't change how great this game is.
If you think melee is the pinnacle of skill and depth, you need to play more games. But then again, that's the entire problem the FGC has with the Smash Community. They play legit only 1 game, and never cross over.
@@avatarofcloud I know there are more games as good as smash, i'm just saying no other games has that gameplay that melee has. Since no traditional fighthing games play like that and newer smash games have a different competitive scene. Maybe Rivals of Aether can do that? I haven't tried that game
This is a dumb comparison, but during the development of Goat Simulator, there was a glitch where your character would spaz out and fly all over the place if you ragdolled and used the devil goat ability at the same time. They decided to keep this in the game because it was funny. I'm not saying that wavedashing was ever a glitch, but there is a chance that this technique was unintentional and the devs decided to keep it in because they liked it.
And that’s an insanely stupid comparison, dumbass. You have no idea what the difference between a glitch and an exploit is. Even if wavedashing itself wasn’t intentional, every individual aspect of it was. Those aspects are just being exploited in an unintended way
Sakurai: plays with 2 controllers *this isn't how you're supposed to play the game!* Also Sakurai: I mean this glitch is kinda part of the game on purpose-
This kind of thing happens in video game development time and time again. It's very common for devs to leave in an unintended consequence due to that consequence being really cool. The melee devs probably didn't implement wavedashing on purpose, but it's cool and gives you more movement options so they kept it. As an example from my own life: I had a Java class in high school, and one of our projects was to build Asteroids from mostly from scratch. I had a "bug" in my code for rotating the spaceship because I made a typo: when you hit an arrow key to turn the ship, it would fold one corner over the other corner instead of moving both corners. It ended up being a really cool barrel roll effect with no negative impact on gameplay, so I kept it.
While not meeting the dictionary definition of a "glitch," wavedashing is, yeah, still pretty much a glitch. The devs clearly did not anticipate that it would become such a central element of competitive gameplay, and I strongly suspect that if they had known what it would become they would have removed it. This is evidenced by the fact that wavedashing has not resurfaced despite THREE more smash titles being released. In Ultimate, especially, we have the directional airdodge, and it appears the devs purposely programmed the Ultimate airdodge to not wavedash effectively, and instead wavelands are only useful in niche circumstances (which I believe is what was intended in Melee all along). To be clear, this doesn't make wavedashing bad or wrong, but it's pedantic to argue over whether it's a "glitch." Was the way it's used today intended by the developers? Obviously not. The most interesting information it reveals is that Nintendo is really frustrating with its fanbase, since it seems to purposefully refuse to provide fans of one of its biggest titles with better competitive mechanics. that they clearly would love to have.
Even if wavedasing was unintentional this still is melees most important mechanic. Fox's wavedashing along with his shine makes him a really good character and he is aloe really fast and overall has a bunch of good moves that makes him top tier. Falco is just a more aggressive version of fox.
@@tonysoprano4883 All the top tiers characters can be played aggressively and defensively well imo. Like dash dancing grab bait marth vs double fair tipper fsmash spam marth. Camping turnip pulling peach vs fc shield pressure peach etc.
@@equinox3861 True. I think most people recognise Falco for his aggressive playstyle because of Mango, Westballz and bbb. But in my mind, Falco is defensive because I think of PPMD. If I remember correctly, Tafo said something like "I think people don't dare to utilise Falco's defensive options because they are afraid of comming off as lame and boring". A flashy Falco looks cooler than a defensive Falco, but I think Falco is as best in a defensive style.
When I was 15 and playing Melee shortly after it came out I remember reading about the technique and too thought it was a bug. Kind of amazing to finally know the truth after all these years! Love these recent videos about the both known and lesser known mechanics in Melee!
Just throwing this out there, but iirc Sakurai and his team mentioned they noticed wavedashing while developing Melee, but they never said they intentionally coded it that way. This seems to imply it was a 'glitch' of sorts, something unintentional. But they either liked it, or didn't see a reason to remove it and kept it in. Could be wrong. Probably am. But it's just something to think about.
Yes! I've been saying this since i read the title. It's an exploit. Not a glitch. The game is working entirely how it was intended, but in an unintended way you could say.
The thing is, wavedashing was NOT an intentional part of the game. Sakurai even said that the team left it in after it was reported as a bug because they didn't think it would make any kind of major impact on the game. It's a quirk of the engine, not a deliberate feature. All of that said, it can still be argued that it's working as expected. It's like saying that the BLJ in SM64 is intentional because it was left in the final build of the game - it's ignoring the fact that the bug was known about but dismissed as minor.
Plus unlike wavedashing, BLJ _was_ patched out, in the Japanese only "Shindou" rerelease of Super Mario 64, which is the basis of the 3D All-Stars version. But I assume this is because it's a simpler fix (literally just putting a cap on Mario's backwards momentum when there wasn't previously) when in Melee's case it's a side-effect of the game's momentum mechanics, and is, in the large scope, harmless.
I don't play smash but this reminds me of a free to play game called Gunz. Someone discovered a movement glitch and it became 100% meta to the point where if you didn't know how to do it - you might as well never play the game.
Really like the music choice for this one, also quite funny how the name "Wavedashing" isn't even original, apparently?? Now that's funny. Now though...is Wavedashing in Tekken 7 a glitch?
Smash Bros borrowed the rage mechanic and wavedashing from Tekken. Man I could probably list 12 more solid reasons on why Tekken deserves representation in Smash.
You may first have to convince the fans of more traditional fighting games like Tekken and Street Fighter that Smash isn't merely a kid's party game that shouldn't be taken seriously on a competitive level. If you check around, that sort of attitude is still prevalent among them.
I think people are motivated to complain about the "glitchiness" of wavedashing by a dislike of it. Not a dislike of the technique exactly but of it's existence outside of the games written instructions (this is my assumption). It seems that their unpleasant experience was being surprised by a technique that isn't covered in the manual, and that they haven't happened to hear about or discover by accident. I imagine that this experience is rather unpleasant, combined with the odd appearance of wavedashing. Now, I think techniques/exploits that result from intended mechanics are cool, but remember that the player is not reading source code, and probably doesn't have access to technical details. Why does this matter? Some hidden features that arise from intended mechanics can be predicted, and thus attempted. In other words, "I can do (a), and I can do (b), so... I could probably do (c)! " An example of this is redstone logic gates in Minecraft. Understanding how redstone torches work allows someone to develop their own logic gates. The possibility of these logic gates is "foreshadowed" by the observable behavior of redstone torches. However, is a backwards long jump foreshadowed by the mechanics of M64? Is Samus' clip through Pokemon stadium foreshadowed by her ball form and that stage?... Is wave dashing foreshadowed by air dodging, etc.? This is what I think annoys people about wavedashing. Ofc, once devs saw it and left it in, it becomes feature. But afaik it's not in the player manual, and could seem like a sort of "random" result of the games mechanics, i.e. not foreshadowed.
Of *course* the guy who discovered wavedashing in Japan was a Luigi main
IKR 🤣
To be fair, if someone didn't know what a wavedash was, they would know that there is some obvious jank going on with Luigi. The other characters don't look like they have black ice on their feet.
Ah yes, I sure do love to L U I G I around.
You talking trash about us Luigi mains huh? 😂 We will Up-B you into the next DLC.
Carter Marshall ahoy spongebob! I have over extended against a Luigi at 0% and will now lose a stock to a 0 to death combo and will start of the game in a terrible position! Agagagagag
**Some one discovers wavedashing**
Sakurai: Yes that's how you play the game
I don't get it
*few years pass*
Sakurai: No, this not how you’re supposed to play the game!
What's up dog
@@whatsup3183 It's a reference to something Sakurai says in the Banjo stream he did.
What's up when announcing in early September that the developers were going to introduce home run contest to ultimate, sakurai was showing off that you could do it with too people as-well. He then proceeded to show himself doing co-op home run contest with two different controllers by himself, then suddenly said mid-way through showing “NO! That’s isn’t how you’re supposed to play the game!” Continuing to say how you should be playing with friends in co-op and not by yourself. Of course that got tuned into a meme and here we are 7 months later
I like how Rocketman was concerned about Sakurai getting a good night's sleep. That's pretty heartwarming.
Absolutely adorable. Man, Sakurai has needed rest for a long time. I'm glad that he can now.
@@PiercingSight Just Down B sakurai, its not that hard
@@PiercingSight he needs two turns after that tho
@@PiercingSightnot for long! you think hes gonna let them do the next smash without him? no chance
Hear me out: when Sakurai said “backdashing” could he have been referring to koopabackdashwaveshinehoverwalkmoonlanding?
Of course, we noticed it during development
Yes infact I'm pretty sure he named it
After further research I have found he added it to make absolute donkey sh*t wavedashes compared to others of course such as Bowser's and ganons better and actually usable
yep
Can't believe this guy mistyped this a year ago. It's
Koopabackdashwave'slide'hoverwalkmoonlanding.
@@rosheafan that's exactly what i was going to say: it's not koopabackdashwaveshinehoverwalkmoonlanding, it's koopabackdashwaveslidehoverwalkmoonlanding
2:30 is one of the biggest twists I've ever seen in a video
Same
that’s hilarious
It's unfortunate. I think he meant it as like. A cool option you could use like dodging. Somethin cool to pull off with friends for some added fun plays.
But, of course, he didn't mean for it to become such a PROMINENT thing, as in the very thing used for moving almost everywhere on the stage.
Hence why he removed it trying to lessen the gap between competitive and casual players. As a casual myself, I'd love to be able to wavedash and do all that sorta fancy stuff while not taking the game to seriously.
Why? Simple. I may not be willing to put in 2,000 hours of grind breaking my hands.
But Minecraft Stephen hitting someone with the wavedash jab up air into a lava block finisher (cause no way am I gonna be able to do that fancy up air build string)
Just. Look at that stupid cube man. Shmovin around. Beating up SEPHIROTH.
Only in smash bros.
@@Starlitsoul0359I dunno man Steve can lift a lot of weight. That probably requires super durability as well
Sakurai having mastered neutral in the year 2002 with the sagely "wavedash back" lmaooo
sakurai the samus main
Honest knowing Sakurai, I'd believe it.
@@swank8508 Sakurai + Samus = Samurai
4:54
16 Photos Taken 1 Second Before Disaster
This just makes me want a salty suite between chillindude and sakurai
Louis dont worry about it
Imagine chillin's disstrack for sakurai
5-0
He be like: respect your elders kid...
What's the Japanese equivalent to "My B"?
IT WAS SAKURA!?
Doing your job for you back then. Lol
GimR's Lab
Make another hyperbolic video claiming to change the meta :-)
Hi Gimr! I hope mvg is doing well during the whole quarantine thing. I hope the tourney is still going to thrive. 🙏
Sakura?
Wildy Duce naruto girl i think, suprising she found wave dashing first
Chillendude said wave dashing was stupid on the day I was born, sick
Isn't it past your bedtime
@@magmivire isnt it time for ur shift?
Sauzels hes like 17-18 tho
@@magmivire you have an odd view of 18yo's
@@iridiculous8662 In this economy?
Imagine Chillindude going back to that forum and posting "my b"
Funny you say that😂
@@brometheusthefirstbro4302 did he ? 😂
@@brometheusthefirstbro4302 don't tease us did he?
Bruh I tried this irl now im jesus
Do it from the top of buildings or any highly elevated surface and you’ll be able to fly once you hit the ground.
@ Very impressive
@ I'm just confused as hell, but gonna leave a like anyways.
@ WTF I KNOW RIGHT
@@Super_Suchi i tried once ..... i broke my leg
Sakurai: it’s intentional
Everyone: oh so it’ll be in all subsequent titles then?
Sakurai: now hold on-
Honestly, bring back tripping.
no need for it, needless tech to make it harder to get into the scene
@Rensi The mind of a salty casual is astounding
Zac Clark nice joke
@@sersmiles1635 Now if you were talking about l cancelling I would agree, but wavedashing isn't needless. It changes up the gameplay significantly
Backdashing is from regular fighting games, it's just dashing backwards (while still facing your opponent, as opposed to dashing back like in melee). It's a known fact that Sakurai has always been a fighting game fan and it's neat that he immediately realized you could microspace using wavedash back
Sakurai, noticing people like Wavedashing: It's not a bug, it's a feature!
Sounds like something Bethesda would say
Pi napple that confirms it, we’re getting a fallout rep in smash because “it just works”(I want the courier though)
That's like Super Mario Bros' walljump mechanic, which is clearly a glitch
I literally spent 20 minutes writing a long comment about the whole debate about "glitches vs. features" in the software community, and you capture the same idea with a meme. I applaud you lol
@@mrvespuccia.k.ameganite1747 I'd like them to include the spouse from 4
Imagine that we lived in the timeline where Melee was carried by pros “mad dashing” everywhere.
Imagine that timeline, and you saying, “Imagine that we lived in the timeline where Melee was carried by pros “wave dashing” everywhere.”
tbf dashdancing is a real phrase
that timeline wouldn't exist because the term mad dashing was copyrighted
@@nicocchi - lol, yeah - that's why we call it wavedashing, because we all tried to call it mad dashing, but couldn't because of copyright, and the Tekken devs hadn't thought to copyright wavedashing :P
I like these videos with lore from the old days of Melee.
Apparently wavedashing was in Brawl during developement.
Dante No Gmos added is that why it works so nicely in pm?
More accurately, the directional airdodge was in Brawl in development, which allowed for wavedashing.
Technically, its in all of them but smash 64 (I think). All you need is a slippery floor and code allowing you to transfer movement to such floor. No need to program a specific "wavedash" code. Its what makes objects and characters slide about the way they do in the smash games when wind, slopes, or other forces (like knockback) interact with other game pieces like items and characters.
@@reversegoat3260 you need a directional air dodge
@@lefrancais8808 Not even that, you just need a force to push you around. Airdodging just happens to be the most readily available, consistent, and accessible option. Wavedashing is short hand for sliding on demand.
Again, wavedashing isn't something specifically coded in the game like jumping or attacking, its an interaction that emerges when certain parameters are met in the game engine. Its what makes it special and unique from other actions in the game.
Hearing sakurai speak english makes me realize the guy they got to dub him in english is actually spot on
2:30 I dunno why but I've always loved your deadpan deliveries
It's worth mentioning that the very concept of comboing in fighting games wasn't originally meant to be part of SF2's design. They just noticed that you could cancel one move into another and ran with it because it looked cool.
See I hate Streer Fighter for just that reason. It's entire meta and gameplay is built on bugs and glitches. And to think they noticed it during development, too. That's just poor design smh my head.
@@beolikespoo trying to correct a well established joke smh my head
Just to be clear, SF2 combos don't rely on cancelling moves into another, they rely on linking moves but generally the full animation plays out.
@@poopheadtwenty-seven540 it's not really poor design since it doesn't ruin the game. It's just a happy accident. Now Guile's death combos are poor design.
@@ASHtheSLUGCAT r/woooooosh
I really like how quiet your videos are. The low volume on the music combined with your voice makes them nice on the ears
Pre-vid: it's an exploit.
Post-vid: Wait what? Sakurai was wavedashing?
Epic.
Also, bye-bye Glitchfest, melee is now an Exploitation Celebration.
You have failed the WAVE CHECK
It's the exact same situation as combos in Street Fighter II
The developers didn't intend it to happen, but when they noticed it, they decided to keep it
The only thing separating a glitch and a feature is developer intent
Not even that. When you find a glitch, but don't have the resources to fix it without sacrificing something more important, you still kept it intentionally, but it's not necessarily a feature.
"The only thing separating a glitch and a feature is developer intent"
Wrong. A Glitch is a bug or programming error than can break a game.
Wavedashing was an unintented game mechanic (exploit) but Sakurai left that in the game intentionally, so wavedashing can't be qualified as an exploit now.
A glitch in Melee would be for example the Freeze Glitch, the Yo-Yo glitch, Name Entry, and other things like that because there is no logical explanation of why those things happen, it's simply bad coding.
@@saricubra2867 Wavedashing was intended.
Sakurai intends for you to move when you airdodge.
Sakurai intends for you to slide when you have momentum on the ground.
Therefore, Sakurai intends for you to slide when you airdodge into the ground.
If he didn't intend for this to happen, then what did he want to happen instead? Us as users can't make a contradictory judgement especially considering the fact that it already follows logical sense.
Also Wavedashing isn't a mechanic. Airdodge is a mechanic. Jump is a mechanic. Wavedash is simply a name WE GAVE to a specific combination user actions. Just like how WE GAVE Marth fair into dair the name "Ken Combo". Sakurai doesn't care if fair combos into dair. Sakurai doesn't care if you slide on the ground from an airdodge.
@@gemiplus I'm stealing this whenever someone calls wavedashing unintentional.
Oh wow. I don’t really play smash, but I always thought Tekken and MvC took the name Wavedash from Melee haha
Melee is the younger one out of the bunch against Tekken and MvC, especially competitively so I'm not surprised we went through a "Mad Dash" of names before adopting what another community used.
Yeah it is much younger. I’ve just always associated Wavedashing with Melee. It’s much more iconic to Melee than any other fighting game in my opinion
@@Eifuh In tekken and mvc wavedashing isn't that used. For tekken it is really rare .
@@jijmotorp3079 most people don't even learn wavedashing in tekken, they do Korean backdashes more than wavedashes
No, I know. I’m an MvC player and I follow Tekken
The dude at 5:33 was a guy who responded to me saying most ppl who play ultimate don’t enjoy it because of how much they complain, how much they ask for buffs, nerfs, etc. He then went on to make many baseless statements about melee citing how we only use about 4 characters, how we’re such a toxic community, and so on.
It's funny how people will claim a community's toxic while they're being toxic.
Sounds like you're really upset that someone on the internet criticized a thing you like.
@@NAFEDUDE I wouldn't classify "only 4 viable characters lol" "such a glitchfest lmao" "you guys just cheat the game lol" as criticism. Those are just baseless statements.
guys, guys.. the porn is where its at!
Imagine going into some Tekken forum trying to explain how Korean Backdashing is a glitch. Thats the kinda shit I need to see.
To be fair, KBD and wavedashing aren't that different in that regard, both use intentional mechanics, in an unintentional way (Since Tekken's backdash is meant to be cancellable into anything), so both are exploits, one that Namco didn't like, and KBD was removed in Tekken 4, but that pissed off high level players, so it was brought back, but Namco still doesn't like KBD, or good movement much, which is why games kept messing with how good movement is (6.0 had way worse movement than 5/DR, 6BR made it a bit better, both versions of Tag 2 had significantly better movement than BR, then Tekken 7 nerfed it again with no improvements in FR).
Poor Sakurai can't get a break, can he
People were telling him to get some rest all the way back in 2002
@@SuperDrunkdragon ?
Is that actually Chillindude, lol?
yes
yes
yes
yes
yes
Telling them to wavedash back is powerful
JUST TURN THE SUBTITLES ON AT 2:38, DO NOT ASK
HOLY SHIT I'M WHEEZING
I saw it earler XD
I admit I used to be one of those people. Back in the day, I would crusade to trash melee and call it a glitch fest. I did it because I was mad. I was angry the first time I experienced getting thrashed by a wavedasher. It's just an advanced technique, but I refused to use it and wanted to be a purist. What an idiot I was. I should have just learned how to wavedash instead of crying online. Even in Brawl and beyond I got thrashed by amazing combos, and still got mad even without the presence of wavedash. This is when I realized how stupid I had been. I was just bad at the game, and I would still be bad at it for many years. Now I am finally good at the game, after playing for so many years Smash Ultimate has made me see the light. It's all just practice and hard work that pays off, there was no shortcut, no glitch that made people beat me for free. I wouldn't even call it an exploit. I am admitting this because I feel like I ruined the internet community's opinion of melee, and I was wrong. You shouldn't have to call this an exploit in your video just to please the naysayers I helped create over the years. It's an advanced tech, a user-created way to play the developers did not intend, but makes the game better as a whole. Just have fun guys, and learn/improve to make it even more fun. I wish I could erase this argument from the internet, so there you have it. I'm sorry.
Top 10 best anime character development
We need more people like this.
Will a this reply possibly bump this comment
Borp, is that you?
Think we just witnessed the boiling of a new copy pasta
Bro. You got a dude that has never touched melee, me, binging your videos. Bravo on your work man
It's annoying to see people try to discredit Melee for it's "imperfect" mechanics. Sure, "exploitfests" require a lot of practice to play well, but those who are passionate about playing Melee learn these exploits anyways.
In fact, future Smash titles even have alot of unintentional and intentional exploits
@Awakened Virtue I guess that is partially true, but Smash was never really advertised as a "competitive, high-skill-ceiling" fighting game, even if Smash Ult acts as a better introduction to fast-paced Smash
@@GenericSpartaRemixer ult is faster, but it is soooo easy to play (not at high level, just to learn). Even compared to smash 4, just being able to short hop consistently makes the game much more accessible. It's obvious they wanted to attract as many players as possible this time
Stratoz ult is definitely not faster than melee
@@assassinpanda9958 no, I wanted to say compared to smash 4 sorry
@@assassinpanda9958 They meant faster than Brawl/Smash 4.
Not a glitch. More like a....quirk of the physics engine tbh.
That's just another name for a glitch, backwards long jumps in sm64 are also quirks in the physic engine and those are obviously glitches
The fact that it's a glitch dosen't make competitive melee any less good or challenging but wavedashing is a glitch, and a cool one at that
@@ovenishot7173 Wavedashing is the result of the intentional airdodge sliding. Since the developers knew about it, and didn't want to constrain it from x frames after jumping which would be incredibly easy, it is intended.
In the computer world, "bug" is coined by a literal bug (moth) jammed in a physical relay. If you want to get even deeper into that original semantic, a bug is not just an unintended error but a physical or software(compiler) error that should not happen by the logic of the program. (i.e. bad/unconstrained programming is not a bug, it is bad programming.)
@LeCoolFace Don't try to make stuff up. Sakurai said it was removed to "appeal to players of all levels." Which is kind of a farce, if you're not competitive in the first place it doesn't effect casual play.
@LeCoolFace thats not even true their is a competitive player who doesn't use it. Stop talking about things you don't know about.
Wavedashing is such a neat mechanic, and the fact that people use it as a way to insult Melee instead of compliment it is insane.
The people that hate melee because of that are hypocrites. Why then Smash Ultimate has wavedashing or wavelanding then?
I've been playing smash bros since it came out in the N64, every game has some exploit or advanced technique, I think Melee's haters are jealous of how incredibly timeless the gameplay is.
Star masterc sorry to split hairs, but technically ult doesn’t have wavedashing only wavelanding since you can’t airdodge for a bit after jumping in ult
@@NoctuaOlivaeTechnically wavedashing still exist if wavelanding is possible. Yeah, obviously you can't do wavedashing multiple times due to the lag, but few characters are more capable of doing a better wavedash and a very competent one at least once.
@@NoctuaOlivae Wrong:
ruclips.net/video/PvIBl_qUZ6I/видео.html
Man this sakurai guy seems to know everything about smash he should make a smash fan game
I love your channel. I'm sure people comment this all the time, but even though I'm not a huge fan of watching or playing Melee, your videos, both the compilations and the analyses, are fucking awesome. Every one of your analysis-style videos is a must-watch for me, I love learning more about this game. Please keep doing what you do.
W A V E C H E A T I N G
Eloy Calderón L C H E A T I N G
@@chriiis7002 you mean F U N C A N C E L I N G
Scientists: We need a new discovery!
Luigi: Now this looks like a job for me
That Chillin guy must have never gotten good at this game if he found wavedashing useless ;)
He might have gotten 6-0'd by Leffen, so he seems like a shit player.
Probably does the taunt to bodied combo better than anyone
he seems like the type of guy to drop a diss track and get bodied
Austin Cannon Chillin: “my b”
@@SeriousStriker I'm willing to bet that 99% of people watching this video would get 6-0'd be Leffen, too.
I am absolutely loving these videos that are seemingly aimed at people who say ignorant things about Melee. Please keep it up!
When Jonathon Blow was developing Braid, he said that by messing around with the different systems and mechanics, he discovered new interesting ways they could work together. “In a way, the game designed itself”, he said while giving a presentation about the game. This is how I see the advanced techniques in melee, results of systems in the game working together in surprising ways.
2:38 wtf with the auto subtitles
LMAO
That's a glitch
Thats a glitch
That a glitch
Its explanations in video form like this that make me believe that Melee is the greatest Smash game ever designed. And I mainly play Ultimate, but I will forever love Melee.
A toast to Melee!
Ultimate is very good because it learned from Melee and Smash 64.
If Sakurai reduced the awful 100ms of input lag and weird buffer in Ultimate, then it's a close call with Project M or legacy XP since Melee's content pales incomparison to other games since Brawl.
Star masterc that’s exactly what some of the ultimate people don’t seem to get, we don’t play Melee for how much content it has, we play it because of how the game works, how the movement works, we play melee because we like the game, melee players wouldn’t switch to ultimate or pm just like that
@@lightbrand_ Project M or Legacy XP are the perfect unreleased smash games as official. They are so well balanced, everyone is broken, like in Smash 64. Not even Melee is so well balanced like in Smash 64 or those famous Brawl mods.
Melee is unbalanced trash. Take a shower.
@@armpitbeard2031 broken as fuck, too. Wavedashing being an unintentional exploit only left in to avoid breaking the game doesn't mean Melee itself isn't a glitchfest.
Save the sad exploits and glitch abuse for speedrunners, and play competitively the real way.
The fucking reveal that it was Sakurai was insane
Coming back to say that the thumbnail on this video still one of my favorites on anything ever
Reminds me a lot of the mockball from Super Metroid. I guess no one really knows if it’s intended but it’s so useful and its most famous use, to roll under gates to access super missiles or ice beam early works so smoothly that it feels like the devs either coded it and designed those gates with it in mind, or noticed it in development and left it in just for the sake of it being fun to do and since they already put a bunch of hidden mechanics in the game for sequence breaking like wall jumping and shine sparking, why not?
Like with the “jump + air dodge into the ground to conserve momentum” explanation for wave dashing, you can explain the science behind mockball as “jump + morph as you hit the ground to cancel bounce animation and conserve momentum”, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t intended, it just means you can explain how it works.
Anyways love your videos big papa
2:13 Top Ten Biggest Anime Plot Twists of All Time
Joking aside though Jesus Christ man your delivery when you say “It was Masahiro Fucking Sakurai” is genuinely one of the best line deliveries I’ve ever heard in my life.
The existence of ultimate's wave dash, minus the ability to do it repeatedly proves that melee's wave dash was meant to happen, but not to the extreme that the players have used it
Berdly learning about how Sakurai encouraged people to wave dash and getting upset.
Melee borrowed the term from Tekken
Over 20 years later, Kazuya is now in Ultimate
And he is now the only one with a practical wavedash in Smash
We've come full circle
2:38 enable subtitles here. Thank me later.
Holy Shit
Holy Shit
Holy Shit
Sakurai talking to the toxic side of Smash.
3:22 "the developers knew about it, so that means it can't be a glitch, right?"
I wish that was how development worked -_-
2:20 oh hey, that's me
Reminder that combos were never intended in the original Street Fighter either and now it's a staple in fighting games.
“It was masahiro fucking sakurai” 2:30
That is peak smash brothers people
0:35 How the fuck was a Gamecube and Melee just $100?! This has to be some sort of meme, I refuse to believe that good consoles were that cheap.
Well, prices notably drop at the end of the 90's, for example the saturn was 400$ fucking dollars, and the later console (Dreamcast) was just 200$. The n64 drop was really low un comparison, from 200$ to just the price You mentioned for the Gamecube (but i'm surprised that it's 100$ fucking dollars for the console AND the BEST selling Game of the GC, that's ridiculously cheap)
Thank you for making the video dude, hurry up with the others, your content is fantastic and, possibly the best meele youtube there is.
Disclaimer: I haven't messed with Melee's code personally, this is an educated guess.
Wavedashing isn't a glitch. The *absence* of wavedashing would me more akin to a glitch.
The grounded and aerial states of a character, like all character states, have code that dictates how the character should transition from one state to another. I'd assume that the transition from aerial to grounded recalculates the velocity vector to be purely horizontal.
This behavior could only be created intentionally, and as it is working as intended, there is no glitch.
Now let's imagine a world where the developers forgot to code the transition from aerial state to grounded state properly. The velocity vector would still be moving the character down, relatively, opening up the possibility for phasing though the collision. This would no doubt be a oversight, could be called a glitch.
Hopefully my conjecture here isn't too far off. Melee modders do your worst if you need to correct me.
I could well imagine that the game retains your momentum when you wavedash because the code doesn't tell it to do anything else rather than because the code tells it to do that. The former would make it a physics exploit, while the latter would make it not even that. It would just be an intended mechanic.
They could have coded it more akin to a platformer, where landing cancels part of your velocity vector. That probably felt too slow for Melee’s pace though, so they had a different transition function so you could “hit the ground running”. The exploit arises when you add the air dodge’s acceleration.
If wavedashing itself were intentional, it would just be a mechanic, not even an exploit. Testers noticed that the mechanics created unexpected behavior when functioning properly and just left it in. That’s what makes it an exploit. If, instead, the player normally hits the ground using a platformer-like transition function but adding the air dodge makes the function wonky, that would be a glitch.
@@52flyingbicycles Yes! Wavedashing is a consequence of Melee's almost more sim-like design (comparing the "platform fighter" genre to traditional platformers or fighters), where the systems designed interact with each other as "naturally" & reusably as possible.
my issue with it is how unfun it is to use. Rivals of aether fixed the usablility issues by making the jumpsquat of all characters 5 frames giving sufficient and consistent time for every character to use it while also making directly sideways airdodges wavedash as well so you don't have to do angles which the controller doesn't natively support so you don't have to muck up your controller to use its full potential consistently.
Respectable opinion! I also dislike their variability among different controllers and having to “notch” controllers for consistent maximum-length wavedashes.
It *kinda* feels like an ascended glitch, if they *discovered* it during development, saw it didn't seriously break the game (crash or long-term affect the experience), and then decided "That's rad. Keep it in."
Wooooow this was a majorly fun to watch I love your channel
Many hate Melee saying its popular only because of the amount of "glitches" (most of which arent glitches at all). Theyre nearly all just advanced tech, like a wavedash, L cancel, shine out of shield, etc. It gives the game depth and creativity. It's fun to watch it and play it that way.
Basically, get good.
noooo i must be able to pick up the game and do everything instantly i dont want to learn or practice or feel my execution and gameplay improve over time slowling implementing new tricks and techniques.
i don't play or watch smash often but when i do it's always melee. being more of a traditional fighting game guy i really do envy how sick melee is with its movement options and the way it just opens up so much new shit to play with. giving the player more options is never really a bad thing, even if it came from a 'glitch/exploit/bug'. thats what makes melee so insanely interesting, the roughest diamond in the rough but god damn you polish that bad boy up and you have something stupidly special.
dev saying they know how something in the finished product works/=dev saying something was intentional
shoutout to the guy on twitter that called fucking CHAIN GRABS a glitch
Combos in Street fighter were originally a glitch and it changed the entire genre for the better
"Melee is popular because of exploits like wavedashing!"
Uh... yeah. It is, and that's the way we like it. Is it not supposed to be?
I love wavedashing but I have to disagree with your this. I enjoy melee because the mechanics are fun, not the exploits.
So the mechanics are fun...but using (exploiting) the mechanics isn’t...?
@@plannedtuna8293 I never said any of that shit.
@@jocyanide they're talking to another guy
The word exploit isnt being used negatively here, even though the connotation is usually negative.
I think the main reason people are so hostile to Melee, calling it a "glitchfest" and whatnot, is because of how so many people are insistent on Melee being the "best Smash Bros." Some even take it too far and get toxic about it (thus leading to people being toxic back). And yeah, as a casual player I do think Melee is overrated just a bit. Its only really "fun" in competitive play.
0:40 ULTIMATE MELEE HE KNOWS
I really like this video, keep popping Asum.
Calling wavedashing a glitch is like calling rocket jumps or look-down glitches in their respective games. It's not a malfunction, just a quirk of the engine
TallestGreen42 I mean it were glitches just cause it is beneficial doesn’t change that
@@shuwan4games they're not glitches, though. these are mechanics functioning as intended, but being used in ways that aren't.
So a glitch. Thanks for clearing it up pal. Though rocket jumps did become part of the game in tf2
green of tree black of blue more an exploit
The first games are debatable, but rocket jumps are definitely intended mechanics in TF2, since if a class who isn't meant to rocketjump does, they fly way farther than those who are meant to.
2:30 Total Sakurai move. I've never laughed so hard. He's just such a genuinely likeable guy.
Agree!! I never understand why people trashtalk Melee saying it's a Glitchfest (Or better said in the video; Exploitfest haha) that's a dumb statement. No other game has the gamplay depth and amazing skill that melee has. If people don't like it, it's ok, but that doesn't change how great this game is.
If you think melee is the pinnacle of skill and depth, you need to play more games. But then again, that's the entire problem the FGC has with the Smash Community. They play legit only 1 game, and never cross over.
@@avatarofcloud I know there are more games as good as smash, i'm just saying no other games has that gameplay that melee has. Since no traditional fighthing games play like that and newer smash games have a different competitive scene. Maybe Rivals of Aether can do that? I haven't tried that game
me and my brother became adicted to this channel keep it up, and never stop, please
This is a dumb comparison, but during the development of Goat Simulator, there was a glitch where your character would spaz out and fly all over the place if you ragdolled and used the devil goat ability at the same time. They decided to keep this in the game because it was funny. I'm not saying that wavedashing was ever a glitch, but there is a chance that this technique was unintentional and the devs decided to keep it in because they liked it.
And that’s an insanely stupid comparison, dumbass.
You have no idea what the difference between a glitch and an exploit is. Even if wavedashing itself wasn’t intentional, every individual aspect of it was. Those aspects are just being exploited in an unintended way
@@emoimo4171 Dude, chill out. Nothing that I said about wavedashing was true, it was just a thought. Read more carefully next time.
And that’s completely irrelevant and changes nothing about what I said. Have some comprehension
@@emoimo4171 I have a feeling that you didn't even read what I had to say, but whatever. Enjoy your life of ignorance
And it’s pretty obvious you don’t know why your points are either wrong or irrelevant, so enjoy your life of stupidity
2:39 I’ve never heard Sakurai speak English before and, honestly, it’s pretty good
Sakurai: plays with 2 controllers
*this isn't how you're supposed to play the game!*
Also Sakurai: I mean this glitch is kinda part of the game on purpose-
This kind of thing happens in video game development time and time again. It's very common for devs to leave in an unintended consequence due to that consequence being really cool. The melee devs probably didn't implement wavedashing on purpose, but it's cool and gives you more movement options so they kept it.
As an example from my own life:
I had a Java class in high school, and one of our projects was to build Asteroids from mostly from scratch. I had a "bug" in my code for rotating the spaceship because I made a typo: when you hit an arrow key to turn the ship, it would fold one corner over the other corner instead of moving both corners. It ended up being a really cool barrel roll effect with no negative impact on gameplay, so I kept it.
While not meeting the dictionary definition of a "glitch," wavedashing is, yeah, still pretty much a glitch. The devs clearly did not anticipate that it would become such a central element of competitive gameplay, and I strongly suspect that if they had known what it would become they would have removed it.
This is evidenced by the fact that wavedashing has not resurfaced despite THREE more smash titles being released. In Ultimate, especially, we have the directional airdodge, and it appears the devs purposely programmed the Ultimate airdodge to not wavedash effectively, and instead wavelands are only useful in niche circumstances (which I believe is what was intended in Melee all along).
To be clear, this doesn't make wavedashing bad or wrong, but it's pedantic to argue over whether it's a "glitch." Was the way it's used today intended by the developers? Obviously not.
The most interesting information it reveals is that Nintendo is really frustrating with its fanbase, since it seems to purposefully refuse to provide fans of one of its biggest titles with better competitive mechanics. that they clearly would love to have.
wha???? just call it an exploit you know what it really is like bruh....
Person: regularly walks forward in smash
Everyone: *laughs in tech*
Even if wavedasing was unintentional this still is melees most important mechanic.
Fox's wavedashing along with his shine makes him a really good character and he is aloe really fast and overall has a bunch of good moves that makes him top tier.
Falco is just a more aggressive version of fox.
theres no real reason fox can't be more aggressive than falco, just look at Hax
Another thing that makes Fox and Falco so good is the fact that they can be played both offensively and defensively extremely well.
@@tonysoprano4883 All the top tiers characters can be played aggressively and defensively well imo. Like dash dancing grab bait marth vs double fair tipper fsmash spam marth. Camping turnip pulling peach vs fc shield pressure peach etc.
@@equinox3861 True. I think most people recognise Falco for his aggressive playstyle because of Mango, Westballz and bbb. But in my mind, Falco is defensive because I think of PPMD. If I remember correctly, Tafo said something like "I think people don't dare to utilise Falco's defensive options because they are afraid of comming off as lame and boring". A flashy Falco looks cooler than a defensive Falco, but I think Falco is as best in a defensive style.
Keep up the great work! These videos + melee history are very well made. You should be proud of your work!
When I was 15 and playing Melee shortly after it came out I remember reading about the technique and too thought it was a bug. Kind of amazing to finally know the truth after all these years! Love these recent videos about the both known and lesser known mechanics in Melee!
Just throwing this out there, but iirc Sakurai and his team mentioned they noticed wavedashing while developing Melee, but they never said they intentionally coded it that way. This seems to imply it was a 'glitch' of sorts, something unintentional. But they either liked it, or didn't see a reason to remove it and kept it in.
Could be wrong. Probably am. But it's just something to think about.
How bad do you need to be to think that chain grabbing of all things is a glitch
2:30 plot twist of the entire years !!!
rip my man kurv
4:54 top ten pictures taken right before a disaster
Yes! I've been saying this since i read the title. It's an exploit. Not a glitch. The game is working entirely how it was intended, but in an unintended way you could say.
Just want to say that I love you choise of music. The Sims 3 music about 3 minutes in was very unexpected, but I love it.
The thing is, wavedashing was NOT an intentional part of the game. Sakurai even said that the team left it in after it was reported as a bug because they didn't think it would make any kind of major impact on the game. It's a quirk of the engine, not a deliberate feature. All of that said, it can still be argued that it's working as expected. It's like saying that the BLJ in SM64 is intentional because it was left in the final build of the game - it's ignoring the fact that the bug was known about but dismissed as minor.
Plus unlike wavedashing, BLJ _was_ patched out, in the Japanese only "Shindou" rerelease of Super Mario 64, which is the basis of the 3D All-Stars version. But I assume this is because it's a simpler fix (literally just putting a cap on Mario's backwards momentum when there wasn't previously) when in Melee's case it's a side-effect of the game's momentum mechanics, and is, in the large scope, harmless.
they found it then *intentionally* left it in. sakurai even advised a player on how to use it. that seems pretty intentional to me
I don't play smash but this reminds me of a free to play game called Gunz. Someone discovered a movement glitch and it became 100% meta to the point where if you didn't know how to do it - you might as well never play the game.
Really like the music choice for this one, also quite funny how the name "Wavedashing" isn't even original, apparently?? Now that's funny.
Now though...is Wavedashing in Tekken 7 a glitch?
I think if it was a glitch, that you wouldn't move left or right. You'd just fall back down
Smash Bros borrowed the rage mechanic and wavedashing from Tekken. Man I could probably list 12 more solid reasons on why Tekken deserves representation in Smash.
You may first have to convince the fans of more traditional fighting games like Tekken and Street Fighter that Smash isn't merely a kid's party game that shouldn't be taken seriously on a competitive level. If you check around, that sort of attitude is still prevalent among them.
O'boy, i got some hot and gud news
You're the best man. The video was beyond amazing, and super entertaining.
wasn't removed in pal
I think people are motivated to complain about the "glitchiness" of wavedashing by a dislike of it. Not a dislike of the technique exactly but of it's existence outside of the games written instructions (this is my assumption). It seems that their unpleasant experience was being surprised by a technique that isn't covered in the manual, and that they haven't happened to hear about or discover by accident. I imagine that this experience is rather unpleasant, combined with the odd appearance of wavedashing. Now, I think techniques/exploits that result from intended mechanics are cool, but remember that the player is not reading source code, and probably doesn't have access to technical details. Why does this matter? Some hidden features that arise from intended mechanics can be predicted, and thus attempted. In other words, "I can do (a), and I can do (b), so... I could probably do (c)! " An example of this is redstone logic gates in Minecraft. Understanding how redstone torches work allows someone to develop their own logic gates. The possibility of these logic gates is "foreshadowed" by the observable behavior of redstone torches. However, is a backwards long jump foreshadowed by the mechanics of M64? Is Samus' clip through Pokemon stadium foreshadowed by her ball form and that stage?... Is wave dashing foreshadowed by air dodging, etc.?
This is what I think annoys people about wavedashing. Ofc, once devs saw it and left it in, it becomes feature. But afaik it's not in the player manual, and could seem like a sort of "random" result of the games mechanics, i.e. not foreshadowed.