Original Full Stock Hawken | S Hawken marked St. Louis Percussion Muzzleloader from the 1850s
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- Опубликовано: 1 май 2023
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Jacob (1786-1849) and Samuel Hawken (1792-1884) are among the most famous makers of American muzzle loaders and were active together in St. Louis starting in 1825. They have long been associated with the 19th century mountain men, and their early rifles are known to have been used by the mountain men active in the fur trade in the 1830s, including by General William Henry Ashley and the American Fur Company. Many of their rifles, including this one, date to after the heyday of the Rocky Mountain fur trade when Hawken rifles continued to be in demand, including by former fur trappers like Jim Bridger and Kit Carson who found new work as hunters, guides, and scouts.
The "S. HAWKEN ST. LOUIS" marking was used following Jacob's death in 1849. Samuel Hawken retired in 1855 and passed the shop onto his son William. William Hawken and Tristram Campbell had been partners since at least 1853 but split by early 1856. The Hawken shop was sold in 1860 to a group of gunsmiths, including J.P. Gemmer who eventually took over.
This is a very attractive and solid representative example of a rare S. Hawken signed full-stock rifle.
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"It is a good rifle, and kilt the bear that kilt me.
Anyways, I am dead. Yours, truly;"
-Hatchet Jack
It's nice to see a working person's rifle, it's a tool and it got used. Frills and flourishes didn't bring food home.
I have loved old muzzloders since I was 15 years old now I am 56 still love them they become part of you
I can’t wait to see what Keblier can do with the Hawken pattern. I’m a Half Stock junkie and would rather have a big bore (58+) but we shall see what they come up with :)
I am like you. I like the big barreled big bore rifles. Yes they were heavy, but they were needed for the big game of the west.
Now THAT is a cool piece of history! Thank you, Ethan, and Rock Island for sharing this!
I couldn’t afford a Hawken style replica back in the ‘70’s when THE movie came out, being a teenager. I got the cheapest muzzleloader made at the time, but now I have an old TC “Hawken.” We need another great movie to get people interested in traditional ML again.
Thank you Ethan, what a beautiful rifle. If only this Hawkins could talk.
So beautiful! Thank you so much! I am a huge Jeremiah Johnson fan and that movie encouraged me to take up black powder muzzleloading after decades of using cartridge guns.
THATS A REALLY NICE GUN,BEAUTIFUL, KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY BROTHER ✌️
If only a rifle could talk. I’d love to hear that Hawken Rifle recount it’s history.
First off in the movie Jeremiah Johnson, his Hawken rifles were not close to being a representation of a “Hawken”, and Thompson Centers were not much better, but! What the movie did and Thompson Center did for Muzzleloading was Spectacular!
I was a fan of blackpowder since childhood, I had a uncle whom was big in it and would drag me to Friendship, every year, if I wanted to go! And I did, my very first muzzleloader was purchased at Friendship, is was a Italian .45 cal percussion that needed work, screws and little stuff missing, the gunsmiths at the shoot with some pestering from me, fixed me up! From the very first shot from that rifle, I was hooked bad, from that day on the blackpowder soot was in my blood and soul. The Mountain Man was of big interest to me, it still fascinates me today! But I must say, that Danial Boone was the man, what he did and accomplished in life may never be bettered!
A true American Hero that is all but forgotten in History! The History of American blackpowder rifles is utterly fascinating, Sam and Jakes father made some of the better looking Pennsylvania longrifles in my opinion, not super fancy, but super sexy!
Americas had some of the best, rifle makers in history!
Wrong
I've been using a muzzleloader for over 50years they are a lot of work but the fun thay give can't be topped! Your presentation was great thanks
Full stock Hawken rifles are sweet looking. Prefer the look over the 1/2 stock
Jim Kibler says he is going to make a Hawken kit and I'm looking forward to that
Howdy Ethan, your not wrong about the influence of T.C. and Jeramiah Johnson. Growing up in the 70's and 80's you weren't cool if you didn't have a T.C. 50cal Hawken in your arsenal. Thanks for the look at the real deal, think I like the full stock version myself. Your doing a great job with the channel, it just keeps getting better and better.
The TC Hawkens are absolutely tops for quality and longevity, just hugely inaccurate. Track of the Wolf used to sell an iron furniture bolt-on kit for them to get away from all that shiny brass.
A tapered octaganal barrel mate, i would love to feel the balance on this original and compare shooting it with a T.C Hawken . I'm pretty sure T.C dont taper there barrels do they ?
My Surname is Hawken and i dont even own one , 25 years ago i did buy a Dixie arms Hawken then soon sold it it .. cheap rubbish !
@@cammobunker Your not wrong, still quite a few of them floating around out there. I still pick one up here and there at estate auctions if their in good shape, just because. kind of a sentimental thing, as they were the start of my black powder addiction.
@@sheepsfoot2 no swamped barrel on T.C's.
@@sheepsfoot2 The balance isn't bad, as such, and pretty much all of the heavy half-stocked rifles are barrel heavy (in fact most BP rifles are...nature of the beast). The nice thing about TC Hawkens is that there are (or were, anyway) a lot of upgrades available-barrels, sights, ramrods, etc that made it better. The factory barrels are 1 in 48" which is a compromise twist to shoot RB and Conical well enough. You can get 1 in 66" for RB or anther one optimized for conicals. I've handled more than a few original BP guns (no Hawkens, of course) and they are different than pretty much any mass production gun. I've also handled a 1 to 1 copy of an S, Hawken Heavy Half stock built from the plans from Track. The rifle was a joy to shoulder but even with a swamped barrel, very muzzle heavy because (again, per the original) it had a inch and an eighth barrel on it in .54. There are ways you can make production guns more authentic-thinning the stocks down is a big part of that, they all have too much wood on them.
let's try to get Investarms to do a full stock Gemmer Hawken kit. It, like the original may well be cheaper.
Quick! To the muzzleloaderphone!
I To Ethan am in total awe of this rifle you have in front of you. I also have had the rare privilege of handling a real Hawken it is actually for A Hawken junkie like myself is really a quite an earth moving moment. I love what you do for muzzleloading.
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Ethan, I love the full stock hawkens. I have fired an original, and made a copy. My wife has it now. Great video. I live real near Christian Hawkens early house now. One day I might visit it.
REMEMBER! Boop the Floop! He is probably lonely now.
You really do a great job and I appreciate it.
Doc
Thank You Ethan. Seeing you at RIA is nice. Ian just doesn't know muzzle loaders like you.
That is BEAUTIFUL
SO gorgeous!!! NICE JOB with your description!!
Thank you for another great informational video! Excellent presentation and attention to detail!
You did a good job explaining this rifle. You spoke about how heavy it was to carry my short Hawking is heavy as heck to
Thanks for your work in making these videos. 😊
Your content is always great. Very informative and appreciated..
I know just how you feel. An owner of an original Hawken allowed me to handle it at a gun show in Denver many years ago. A beautifully
used and patinad piece of history. One of my treasured experiences. I'll be forever in his debt for allowing me that opportunity.
Fantastic presentation, boy would I love to see that in person!
Nicely done, Ethan! Thank you and Rock Island for sharing this piece of history with us! Great stuff...I love the Hawken half stock, and had no idea the half stock was more expensive than the full stock back in the day! I have a custom Hawken half stock; I love to shoot it, and I love to look at it:)! Next step - build my own!
Ethan, I'm so glad that you were able to showcase that particular rifle. Thanks so much!
TC
Thanks Turkey Creek! Glad you enjoyed it!
Very nice Hawken rifle great peace of history thank you for sharing this information and you did a great job keep up the great work
Cheers! That is the best gun. Ever. Especially given the "What is a Hawken Rifle?" video that popped up in my feed earlier this week.
I love that it’s a full stock… beautiful piece right there…
it's a true holy grail moment, again Ethan thanks
Wow, she's a beauty. Thanks Ethan.
Beautiful
I just picked up a near duplicate of that gun.
Full stock, 36" Green Mountain rifled barrel, L&R lock and all steel hardware.
Mine is a .58
Very cool to see an original. Iconic rifle
Incredible presentation. I must say I have a desire to add a toe plate to my TC Hawkin after seeing one on this early rifle.
Great video sure enjoyed it and the way you presented the rifle thank you 👌👍👏
Thank you, this gives me so much information to use.
Great video and wonderful information. It seems the lighting has improved, at least for me. Thanks
It's amazing over the last decade or so how there's been so many original Hawkens that have been uncovered that have shown how different in variety some of the Hawken rifles were, that they weren't simply the half stocked guns we all thought they were. I would have loved to have met the guy who was capable of carrying that particular Hawken around, given the size and length of that gun, I'm going to guess it's probably a 10 or 11 pound rifle, maybe even closer to 12 pounds. Either way, that's one heck of a firearm. The one problem about living here in the northeast is that we don't see Hawken rifles here, they weren't something that was popular. I'm willing to bet there were originals from time to time, but not as common as in the midwest of parts of the south.
Though you are in the Northeast, you are not too far from the origin of the Hawken family. You may know this already but they originated in Maryland, which to us Georgians is practically New York City. Several full stock Hawkens from the family exist that were made in Maryland.
It's natural that the Hawken rifle migrated west and not east. The east already had plenty of gunsmiths so there was no reason for the Hawken to travel back to the east coast.
You’ve done a Fine Job with this Lovely Hawkens! Kind Thanks and you Lucky dog you, sitting there with that piece of history! It is Very Much Appreciated! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania p.s. I do indeed have a 50cal. Conn Valley Arms Hawken. Great Guns!
It would be totally awesome to get to handle an "original" Hawken rifle.
At one time I owned a TC Hawken in 54 cal that had a 36 inch octogon barrel. With the long barrel the gun could burn all of a 160 grain charge of 3f black powder pushing a 400 grain slug (real cannon). Which made me realize just how powerful a large caliber weapon was against large animals like a grizzly back in the 1850's.
Thank you for including the measurement photos, very helpful!
Thank you!
The stock shows iron staining ovals around the barrel keys showing that the keys were made to go the other way. Someone turned the keys around to put the heads on the lock side in times past.
That's a beautiful piece. Being 1.1 to 1 taper, I bet that is a heavy beast.
Truly an amazing piece of firearm history ..!!
Man i love muzzleoaders.
Amazing! Thanks for the look back into an actual Hawken. Great content!
Very nice
I would to see a early hawken in flint from Elizabethtown MD. ( Hagerstown) that their father made.
Well done
I have through the years I have built fifteen of these rifles. With the help from The Hawken shop. Moody metal works and Getz barrels. They are second to none. All others of modern world make me laugh. 😇
Saludos Ethan. 😊Un rifle Hawken original precioso y en bastante buena condición. Es una pena que en Europa, en España, donde yo vivo, y en Italia, no se hayan hecho copias de los rifles Hawken con la madera hasta la boca del cañón. Y es que así eran los primeros Hawken originales. Saludos desde España.
Nice vedio thanks.
What a prize!!!
Another great vidio. I have heard about full stock Hawkins but never seen one. Thank you. By the way , my first muzzle loader was a Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter, .58 caliber. Should have bought a Hawkins. 😁
Darn, wish you posted a month ago...I just built a flint version of this and could be this guns twin.
Many thanks for this video! I think the most interesting part is the view on the muzzle! I have never seen lands as wide as these! In fact this internal barrel profile is just the opposite of a Forsyth barrel. Unfortunately you do not say anything about the twist which would have been interesting for me.
Wish you could find a flintlock Hawken
Yep, that's a later gun, but fairly representative of what some Mountain Men carried, just with a flint lock. I've seen photos of very similar rifles by Leman and J.J.Henry as well, although those might have had a brass trigger guard and furniture, and would likely have a more "longrifle" style trigger guard rather than a New English scroll type. But the heavy tapered barrel, the keyed removal system, the cheekpiece, all are features that could, and did, go up the Missouri in the 1830s or so. Of course many other types, from Pennsylvania and Lancaster to Kentucky and Southern Mountain style went as well. But the Hawken is the king of them all, at least now.
Thank you for presenting this rifle to us, well done.
I might have missed it, but the stock appears to be maple?
Thanks for a great video & history! a beautiful rifle in my opinion! tight fit between tang and barrel breech too! would the half stock be more expensive because of the underlug to hold ramrod pipes? Also, do i see a steel insert on the offside barrel key slot or are the slots just wood? very interesting for me as i have 3 "modern" versions of the 1/2 stock hawken.
It would be great if someone would produce a copy of this full stock Hawkin.
I would love to try my hand at building one.
12:52 Looks like someone put it in from the wrong side. As you can see at 13:02, there are indentations for the head of those keys to fit in.
I Want One
Hey Ethan, all the parts to duplicate this rifle are out there for purchase and you can make this rifle for a lot less money than buying a commercial reproduction (which are usually kind of ugly) . As anyone can see from your excellent video, the Hawken was a very plain gun, not requiring a lot of expensive parts or uber stock carving skills. I would only advise to research and purchase a quality barrel. Thank you again for a nice video about an iconic rifle from the old west.
What original sources indicate any Mt Man carried a Hawken Rifle prior to 1830? How many iconic Hawken flint/percussion full stock or half stock rifles were even made prior to 1830?
Hawkins are all very fine, but most of the plains rifles were essentially custom made. You'll see brass buttpates and trigger guards, and locks that were in use during in the classic flintlocks. Depended on the taste of the customer.
😮😮😮😮😮
😍😍😍😍😍
Wowzas!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sure that just as there were differences in Lemans and every other rifle built, some with brass, some with touches of german silver, many in iron, there were many versions of the Hawkin. Yet their sturdy construction set them apart. You can pretty much tell a real hawkin or a good quality copy of a hawkin when you look at it. In my opinion they were too heavy for a man on foot but if I'd been a plains man or mountain man I'd have coveted one.
What sort of wood is it?
do you or can you put me in touch with someone that can put together a Hawken shop kit? Thanks
Hey Ethan. Just thought I'd message to see if you knew that you can still get an authentic Hawken Shop kit rifle. There's a small local gun shop near me that owns the patent for the original Hawken rifles and is the new location of the Hawken Shop. They even have some of the original tools used by Samuel Hawken & family.
Thank you Eddy, yes, the Hawken Shop kits are on my list to get someday. I've gotta save up for one, but I know it'll be worth it.
@@ILoveMuzzleloading I've been saving for my own as well. It's always a pleasure to walk in & see everything in person. It's a small gun shop in the backyard of the owners home in the back 40 of the island. Great people with great personalities & skill sets. I loved all my old muzzleloaders, but I know none will compare. I look forward to seeing you with your own.
can you tell me if anyone makes a copy of this rifle please let me know I live in Australia and would love something that looks so original thankyou please
The closest you'll find is "The Hawken Shop" in Oregon, USA
Truthfully I am not really up to speed on these vintage American firearms !!! & if it were not for a more knowledgeable person to be pointing things out & describing as they go , another person like myself would think , OH !!! what a plane Jane of a gun !!!
why is a half-stock more labor than a full stock?
It is believed that in the time period the manufacture and attachment of the barrel under-rib and ramrod pipes to the rib took more infrastructure and time. This changed over time of course
Wish I still hade my Thompson Hawken from 1978 had to sell it thanks to a divorce.
I can say that I sincerely feel your pain.
I feel like the Hawken is the midwesterners gun. the flatlanders seem to love it. For me, not so much, too clubish, at least the remade kits. Very little style and heavy as shit. Nothing new in terms of tech either. A flint gun on the other hand does not need caps! Usually much more style and the same performance 100 yrs earlier. Just my 2 cents from the Northeast. Sorry, I had to interject some cons to be fair to the others.
The Brown Bess is older and more well know. why do american act like they invented guns ?
HOKKKEN RIFLE
I've had a 50 cal.cva Hawken flint for about 30 years. First lime seeing a full stock
Hope you like that CVA
For what was a not a t.c. it doesn't miss very happy with it. I have a m1819 pistol a 44 new army and a cap and ball 50 pistol
You're very lucky I'd give my eyeteeth be able to actually handle a real Hawkins built a whole bunch of them from components but I've never been able to actually put my hands on a real one did Samuel Hawkins build any of his full stock rifles with the rounded cheek rest