DRUM TRIGGERS ARE CHEATING - PROVE ME WRONG
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- Опубликовано: 29 апр 2024
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Incredible news! Your hard work keeps paying off!
Menudo pelotazo!!! Me alegro mucho 😜
Wow this is incredible, congrats!
Big ups, Stepario, and massively deserved. You rock, dude.
@elestepariosiberiano
It warms my COCO!!!! 😂😅 😂😂😂 You're fuking amazing!
Trigger warning...
Best comment 😂
YES lmaoooo
So, how does he really feel about triggers? L😂❤
@@ccrider8483 He said that triggers are fine...
🤣
Drummers supporting drummers is a beautiful thing. ❤
Hear hear 🍻
I feel your support
Triggerists are drummers?
How do you feel by drummers supporting AI?
@@magnushallin3640 I don't even support drummers supporting "drummers" that hide behind trigger samples.
Lol what? People like "if my drumset sounded different, I'd have high skill"
You hit the nail on the cav, daddy
Lmao nice to see ya here with us drummer man! 🤘❤️
Samus!
Lol nice to see you here Seamus. Your one of my favorite drummers! 😊
Le wild samus appears.
We have been blessed with a cherry on the bachiiiiiiiiiiii
Best thing triggers created were fart-drums oh yuuurrrr
Or imagine when the kick pedal was introduced... "That's cheating! You aren't even kicking the drum!!"
Or if your Buddy Rich who think anything other than traditional grip is blasphemous
The Electric guitar comparison is still my favorite. I mean.. "You can change your sound aside from how the real strings sound with that sht? no way that should be a crime."
It was originally called a Bass Drum Pedal. "Kick drum" is basically new slang from not very long ago. It's a Bass drum.
@@Oryyyt Electric guitars fire one fake note per chord?
@@GirlsInYogaPantsAreSimplyNaked Yeah but it's funnier in my scenario.
What most critics don't understand is that even in the studio, most producers/engineers use note replacement (aka samples) for kick drum sounds. As with triggers, it is much easier and quicker to take a proven sample of a good kick sound, replace the subpar original, and immediately make something better. It doesn't take away the performance of the drummer- it isn't "cheating"; it's just taking what you did, and making it sound like you wanted it to. Many years ago, I was with Hellhammer (Mayhem) during a rehearsal with him using triggered kicks. Every hit was clean and audible. A few days later, I was with Frost (Satyricon) at a rehearsal. No triggers. Similar speed... it was more of a rumble instead of individual strokes. I've used triggered kicks for over 20 years (actually 60/40 in the mix), and as Jorge says, with triggers, you hear everything- if you make a mistake, triggers will make DAMN sure it is heard, whereas with just mic'ed kicks, you can get away with cheating because strokes don't sound as defined; a minor screw-up can be missed. In the end, technique and execution create the notes- production delivers it to your ears.
You've got the point here: " it isn't "cheating"; it's just taking what you did, and making it sound like you wanted it to."
It is the same thing a sound engineer/ producer does with a song when mixing and mastering. Is it cheating when you polish a song so it can be enjoyed well balanced on radio/ Vinyl/ CD/ MP3...???
I want to be careful to not discredit tried and true techniques or start an inflamitory thread, but why wouldn't the drummer provide the engineer what they need in the studio rather than coming in with a subpar sound? Maybe this is all just a different world than the world in which I live...
I get way more enjoyment and fulfillment working to get different sounds out of my drums than I do from learning another sticking pattern or technique.
Well with that speach you will not mind having AI playing everything.
And the real drummer will starve because of your profit
it's absolutely not cheating but it literally does not sound like a real drum kit 90% of the time (unless you are exceptional at mixing - and trust me, you're not) and you lose most dynamic and tonal range out of the drum. drummers in the 80s and 90s didn't need that and they sounded much better. my guitarist is always banging on about how sample replacement sounds just as good and every time he plays me something with samples it's so incredibly obvious. it just doesn't sound like a band, it sounds like guitarists and a vocalist playing over a stagnant, robotic backing track
it's not that i don't like the industrial sound anyway. the problem is everyone seems to think triggered samples are a one size fits all approach and it's led us to a terrible place
I love this. The perfectly pitched wet-blanket on a surprisingly heated non-debate. To explain both sides and then implore people to be more nuanced and considerate in their criticisms. Perfect. Thank you.
Thanks for the mention 💪🏻
Keep it up master
RIP
It's deserved. You're a killer drummer. You have one of my favorite styles.
I'm glad he mentioned you. I had never heard you before but man, you kick some serious ass...and bass drums!! Keep the videos coming!!
I’m still waiting for my steak… is it done yet?
It cracks me up when a top-notch technique drummer says, "Use them because if you suck, you'll suck even more."
He’s speaking facts. I’m a seasoned drummer who has toured with various rock and metal bands, but when I sat at a drum kit with direct drive pedals and triggers, I felt like a complete amateur again lol
@@BradsGonnaPlay To be fair those triggers were certainly tuned to the way that drummer plays. A big part of trigger use is setting the level of when the trigger kicks in. If the guy was a light hitter and you're a heaving hitter, you're going to get a ton of extra triggers you wouldn't want.
That´s so true... I had to spend lot of hours learning to play precisely with the triggers; It's a great tool for listening to your small mistakes.
It’s true. Playing on an electric kit as well, it will really expose sloppy technique and help you get tighter.
That's a fact. Triggers makes it far easier to hear and notice inconsistencies in tempo, whereas with just the natural kick it's way easier to get away with those inconsistencies unnoticed.
I've never understood how anyone could "cheat" at something that's not a game/sport/competition. It's like saying digital art is cheating - the intended result is enjoyment or conveying a thought/idea/message, not who can use paint and bristles best.
because musical performance is a major part of music culture, idk how is that even remotely hard to understand
@@benjamindover8221Cry harder
Say you went to a gig and enjoy it, but find out that the drummer was using triggers. Would demand your money back because he cheated in his musical performance?
@@DSprich no
@@DSprichI get what you mean art is to provoke a conversation. It's why even tho I hate modern art it's still art as its achieved its goal. Hope I got it right what you was getting at
Great video!! So glad someone at you level addressed this. And I love how you are trying to bring us drummers together!!
This reminds me of Herman Lee of DragonForce responding to people who said that using click tracks live is cheating: "It's not cheating. If you can't play to a click track, then you can't play in time. It's as simple as that."
Click tracks allow for backing tracks and visual effects to be in tome with the show. If you can play to a click then all the theatrics will be on cue while you are playing.
It's basically playing with a metronome. It's actually pretty important to use, no matter which instrument you're playing.
YEAH! Like if playing to a click was any easier!
@@MarcosThompson Yeah, it's not. If anything, it's one more thing you have to actively concentrate on.
TBH, I'd rather not deal with a guitarist who can't handle playing to a click.
When I first started using triggers, it actually highlighted how sloppy my kicks actually were (since I could hear each hit clearly) so it greatly increased my accuracy, then came the speed
I guess the accuracy and performance is even better with quantizing and adding audio events in the DAW?
If you can't play acoustic drums then you are not a drummer...
I was going to say, Craig Reynolds said that triggers can make you a better drummer sometimes because you hear everything
@@michaelwlodek1548 It's really bad if you can't hear what you are playing without amplification?
Triggers are mainly used in the industry for easy conversion of your "audio" to digital events in the computer that can be edited - quantized, moved and changed in a DAW.
It's like auto tune for rhytm.
Why play badly when you can let a machine fix it?
@magnushallin3640 people quantize their snare too without a trigger being involved. Hell whole kit can be quantized without triggers. So it's not really a shortcut there either.
I like the mix of acoustic drum and trigger like how Charlie is playing on that Pantera tribute tour. I think he uses like 60% his drums and 40% Vinny's triggered sound.
"When you do tuc, it does puc". best explanation I've ever heard. I used to think triggers were cheating, I got that mentality from my old drummer. But once triggers were explained to me properly, I get it. I played electric guitar and love played drums now too. The comparison to electric guitar and changing its sounds is a good comparison. However, with a lot of distortion on your electric guitar, you can hide some mistakes, as well as magnify them. But whatever instrument you play, I use the advice I got from Paul Gilbert, one of the best guitarists ever - imagine your playing is like driving. Your accuracy in playing is your steering, and the speed is the gas pedal. Don't press the gas if you can't steer properly.
Nice to see you touch on that as well
6:19 "you see a piano? electric piano" Actually... four Queen albums bragged in the liner notes "NO SYNTHESIZERS!"*. Boston, Iggy Pop, Kraftwerk, and Tesla did the same. In the 1970s, synths were getting popular, and music purists said it wasn't "real music", that it was "cheating". This battle between purists/traditionalists and innovators is as old as time. It's not just for drummers.
* ok, admittedly Queen did it to get back at a critic who mocked them for their synths - which they weren't using; not because they hated synths.
Same thing is happening nowadays with singers that use Autotune _as an effect_ on their vocals. Because they like the effect. And effects on vocal are from days old. Reverb, delay, removing unwanted frequencies, distortion all have been done throughout many years. Now, a new "hype" came around and you or me might not like the sound of the effect but using it doesn't automatically mean the one using it can't sing without it.
Kraftwerk didn't use synths?
@@TheJols Not for their first 2 albums. They did use organs and electric piano, but no synthesizers. They also had no issue with them and started using them by the 3rd album.
Just yesterday I saw a video where a guitarist complains about an electric guitar with acoustic pickups (piezo), maybe because he's not creative enough to extract a good sound from it. As you say: complaining and criticizing is a human issue, not a drummers issue.
Those people playing the non-touch sensitive instruments were really really jealous of those born in the age of piano. Percussion for people with really strong fingers.
This is like the moronic discution about bass players: "if he uses his fingers and not a pick is a better player"
That's one of the reasons I love MISA from BAND-MAID so much. She can go from picking to INSTANTLY tucking the pick under her index finger to do plucking/strumming/slapping then INSTANTLY go back to using the pick without missing a note and keeping perfect time. It is an amazing technique to witness and I had never seen a Bass Player do that before. "Best of both worlds" playing technique... ;)
@@SogoTXlol yeah i thought not many ppl notice her technique
Yep. Saying fingers are better takes out the entire Beatles library. Simple as that. EVH used a metal pick. Was that cheating?
@DTylereRod Beatles bass with pick, eh; Lemmy bass with pick, yes please.
As a drummer and bassist, I aporove this message lol
one benefit of triggers are that you don’t need the most expensive drums to sound great. i work in a venue with a capacity of 1000. 95% of the time the drums are just mic‘ed up and like 85% of the time the drums just sound bad because drummers try to replicate these „typical“ fat modern drum sounds where they end up failing and the drums sound shit. a few days ago there was a pop act playing and the drummer had a cheaper kit (under 1000€) but he just got some really nice drum samples and the drums sounded great.
so triggers arent only for metal drummers but in general a great buy for anyone who wants to sound great for a low price.
your first sentence resume ALL
I'd say it would be better if drummers weren't lazy fucks that didn't bother to tune their instruments properly.
Yeah but triggers sound like a typewriter not a bass drum
@@drumsofviolence Superior Drummer 3 , just search information bro:)
@@dariomulan1646 drums are not an electronic instrument
Well put!👍🏻👍🏻
Two big thumbs up on the explination! Clears up so much for everyone!
I can't wait to kick off with you on May 7th. just alone the Q-n-A with you will be so amazing to listen to in real time. You call it, you are objective in your perspective and you work in overdrive to unite us drummers. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that.
Bro has achieved drum Jesus status. From being a part of us; to legit saying that we should love one another. Stay strong!
The Messiah of the Beat!
Bro, jesus was quite deeper
@@filipkasprzyk9564 relax bro
@@filipkasprzyk9564womp womp
@filipkasprzyk9564 I bet you're a blast at parties
The fact that anyone thinks there is "cheating" in music is a testament to how stupid people can be. Music has never been a competition and never will be, its as simple as that. Music is an art, meant to be expressed in any way that the artist chooses. Its not a sport, and people need to stop treating it like one.
Apparently you have not looked around at the stupid world in which we find ourselves living in. Everything seems to be tiresome pissing match.
Auto-tune is cheating
We want talent and creativity but everything has become very accessible to people without talent allowing a lack of creativity to thrive
It's called having Artistic integrity and being an honest musician. Yes, there is cheating.
@@calebmunkirs9661I do agree but you also have the right to just ignore people who cheat or have no talent.
Wait till these people learn there are whole electronic drum kits.
Thank you so much 🙏 unbelievable that this discussion is still „triggering“ so many drummers that have fallen into the trap and misconception that performing music has to be a competition.
Same thing happened when digital art became a thing. Painters considered it cheating until they tried it for themselves and realizes how much time is saves even though you still have to be a good artist to use the tool properly.
yup, it happens with everything, any time a piece of tech is introduced, some asshole's are eventually going to hear about it and then start complaining, that's their lot in life. hahaha
Eloy made Slipknot, well played.
I'm waiting for El Estepario's victory lap because he did indeed call it weeeeeks ago. Maybe he's holding off for the official announcement?
I'm waiting for exactly the same thing bro. But yeap, now we have the band confirmation. C'mon Estepario! I need to see you saying: I SAID! Lmao
@@Nefville he is a friend of Eloy. you can't claim "i called it" when you got it from the horses mouth.
@@Nefville *months
@@robin3 If you think Eloy told him...I have an ancient civilization to sold you
I'm loving your course Estepario! Challenging, but amazing! I'm already a member. I wish existing members got all of this SWAG, not just those who are joining to take the course. Oh well, the course is worth much more.
Thank you for putting this up. I laughed through a lot of it. I currently have a Roland VAD kit so it looks like a real kit. There's people that don't believe that they're electric and when they find out I've gotten the hate and had to explain this very things to them
Well said my friend.
Never underestimate the stupidity of people that don't have a f***ing clue what their taking about.
*they're
Im sorry, the irony made me do it.
@@t3hi84n2g 😂😂😂
Can confirm. I am a person who often has no clue what I'm talking about, and I am indeed as described
They said the same things about the electric guitar didn't they?
@@JackXombiNo - the electric guitar was developed in 1932 to make the guitar sound balance with a jazz orchestra. You know those loud horns...
same logic for guitarists who say distortion and effects mask poor playing, it's exactly opposite
Mmmm..its not the opposite bro 😂 its harder to play smth perfectly on an acoustic than on an electric guitar with distortion.
it's harder if you're too bad to know how easier it is
Makes a weak sound strong and a shitty weak sound shittier and stronger
@@credhc8421 Not actually...ppl can be sloppier on electric guitar and it won't be as noticeable as it would on an acoustic.
I think it’s more the amplification than the distortion that makes you have to play cleaner.
But also I think it depends how you set your distortion.
If you have it set very hot you have to play even cleaner to avoid it sounding like a mess, but if you dial it back a bit it can be easier than playing clean.
Also depends what your playing and what techniques are involved, as to whether clean or distorted is easier to make sound good.
The 30 day drum challenge u just started is awesome , learned so much already thanks 🤘🤘 I missed out on the opportunity to get the pad tho , signed up a couple days too late ⏰
I'm just a casual drummer so I have no professional opinion here, but I'm a guitarist but I look at this drum trigger thing the same way I view digital tuners and pedals for guitar. As you said, it won't make you be able to play something you have not developed the technique for, but it can open up completely new sounds, options, and even genres. I have no problem with any of that as music is music and these things open up the creativity of the musician. I also like not having to have a full pedal board and amp rig just for practicing in my living room or just playing with ideas.
This was interesting for me as a guitarist. Never knew exactly what triggers were until this. Blaming someone for using triggers kinda sounds like blaming a guitarist for using distortion. Yeah it makes it easier to play fast (with power) but that's the point - it opens up possibilities for new music.
It
Doesn’t
Make
It
Easier
To
Play
Fast
🤦🏼♂️
@@drumrocka On top of that distortion doesn't make it easier to play fast either.
@@joshshultz1250ya that was a weird statement
Very well stated, a simple way of looking at those who complain like that is just like I learned in sales, those who cannot do better to elevate themselves attack others to tear them down to their level. Their home life sucks so they project their miserable existence on others. The only thing you can do is pray for them and then 'dust your feet and move on'. Well put and very well explained on Triggers, now even I better understand their function and totally agree, they won't help you drum better, just sound better! Good stuff!! Thanks for the informative video!!!
I don’t have any problem with triggers and I appreciate you doing this video. I always wondered how you got the sounds you do out of your drums, especially while doing those single hand rolls. You should do a comparison video with and without triggers.
Look how long it’s taking to get towards open handed drumming let alone embracing technology. Like the old saying goes “Drummers, can’t live with them, can’t live without them”…….excellent video that carry’s over to tech in general.
Its about the music at the end of the day. Debates about, "Who had to work harder for it," is a waste of time. Great video!
If the music is fake, it's not even what you think you're listening to and your life is a Barbie movie.
Exactly. It's like when people flame polyphia and accuse Tim of not even being able to play the guitar because he approaches writing from a digitally inclusive perspective. But I've seen him play live and lemme tell you... dude has nothing to prove 😅
I can not wait to take your course in Drumeo! So freakin stoked on this! Thank you for everything you do!
Very informative very from the heart thanks man!
He tenido esa conversación por años y aun esa misma gente sigue en su posición, los triggers son una chulada. Y si lo combinamos con software como el addictive drums o algún otro vst pfff de lo mejor
Awesome video! Especially when you talked about the Drum Community supporting one another. We need MORE of that! Thank you...
Most drummers i know dont want ro sit down and share technique and licks with each other.
Mejor explicado de ahí no se puede... Excelente hermano!!! 💪💪💪
Preach the things that need to be said that people don't want to hear, But absolutely need to hear! Stay Classy EES
Thanks for making this video! I had heard the discussion of drum triggers but never fully understood how it worked. This was highly informative and entertaining to watch 🤟
Well said and explained - you're the only drummer I follow and the only reason I watch reactions to your videos from other drummers, and I love it, I even didn't know I like drummers until I watched a video from you - keep it on 💪🙏
Buena aclaracion Estepario!!
Good clarification!
Love the explanation 💯 on point! 🎯👌
Una explicación inteligente, bien expuesta, desarrollada y expresada. Se agradece en estos tiempos un mensaje positivo y conciliador como este. Pero en realidad el mensaje de tu vídeo no es el que expresa el título.
Using triggers has absolutely nothing to do with skill and only if you've used them you know. Hating on triggers Is like hating on e-drums.
He's not hating on them though, you got clickbaited.
@@IHateRUclips-sr1wj I didn't say he was hating on them, I dunno what you're talking about.
E-drums are just as fake as triggers and neither have any relation to how a real acoustic drum kit functions. You're right, you don't need any skill in order to fake a beat.
RUclips's nannybot blocked the 3 replies. I wish e-drums sounded better.
People hate on e kits too 😂
Thank you for explaining triggers for me! I've been playing since 94, I started playing (trying to play) convers of nu metal songs and started hearing about triggers. It has taken to THIS DAY for me to actually know what they are. Well done!!!!
They can also be used to trigger effects etc.. I know alot of guys that use them for triggering noise gates on the drum mics. Cuts down on over bleeding
Estepario eres una gran persona!!!! Da gusto ver tus videos!!! Deseo que sigas difundiendo la batería y bateristas. Eres un gran ser humano !!!!! Mi admiración y respetos!!!!!
Thank you very much. Very informative!
Amen! Triggers only cheat sound and do not cheat stroke. Now, if you are a drummer who is keen on nuances of natural hits and want playing dynamics, then do not use triggers.
I mean... you can blend the trigger sound at whatever level you like with the natural mic'd sound, or even take the triggers out of the mix for some songs.
Go electric if you want Dynamic triggering.
"and want playing dynamics". that IS music
Most recording studios already replace all the kicks in songs to make sure they have the same waveform... this is the same thing... but a live version.
In other words, cheating.
@@GirlsInYogaPantsAreSimplyNaked Depends how you set the trigger. If your trigger is to by pass mic setups or feedback issues and still has tamber or velocity detection then it's not; but if you set the output to be consistent no matter the kick strength then you could argue it's modified.
@@grapesofhypocrisy9842 How about just learning how to play, tune and mic properly, in reality, like a drummer?
@@GirlsInYogaPantsAreSimplyNaked Some ppl use E-Drums.
@@grapesofhypocrisy9842 Shame.
Hey man, I appreciate all of your videos. Your skill vids, vlogs, theory, practice and get better. Thank you for keeping it real and proving the worth of dedication.
Good to make that video, cuz a lot of people think that triggers are cheating putting a sound that drummer don't play, and its bad to stay in that misinformation cloud. I know thats a boring and tedious topic for drummers, but have to many people who just like knowing and study drums not having one, and there's a really thin and dangerous line for saying bullshit. Information is everything.
Vocalist: i need autotune✔️
Guitarist: i need to add effect✔️
Drummer: i need to use triggers
"Oh hell naw!!!!"
pianists: i need that Casio digital keyboard
I think that we can all agree that auto-tune is absolutely cheating. And is not fair to compare here
Autotune is cheating! If you sing badly out of tune, it corrects it. Makes a bad singer sound good. Triggers don't do that. If you play badly, it will sound bad, but amplified.
Autotune isn't cheating, it's just garbage.
@@jeffbaranowski6695 agree but there are people who think it's great, they all have their pros and cons, lets accept it equally
Once you get to certain bass drum speeds, you can’t even distinguish the strokes on a normal, untriggered bass drum. People hear it and think it’s just an easy way to sound fast regardless of technique. You can’t even hear the strokes individually 250 bpm and up on a normal kick, so triggers are there to create clarity. Like saying a guitarist using an amp is cheating
Sorry about the dumb question, but i am not a drummer: I didn´t get why the trigger could be cheating for playing faster. The only scenario I could figure is when the trigger is set to double the stroke, I mean, the drummer hit the instrument once and sounds like he would have hit twice. Am I correct?
@@thiagodamatta79 It's basically impossible to have the trigger play more than one sample and keep things in tempo with a live performance. A trigger won't magically adjust the space between notes to the speed you're playing.
@@thiagodamatta79 for the people that actually understand how triggers work (which is not the majority), they only say it's cheating because you don't need to hit the bass drum as hard in order to set off the sensor, and that breaks their caveman brain mentality of "more harder = more better"
The best kit I've ever played was something like a 12 piece kit with two electronic kits that were 8 pieces each mixed in and triggers on the beaters for the acoustic, so much fun
I LOVE Drumeo - looking forward to your course. Woohoo!! 🥰👑💜🥁
It's kind of ironic that the same people who play V Kits at home would have an issue with triggers. I mean the tech has come so far. These people didn't grow up with those Cheesy ass Simmon Pads. The other irony, of course, being just how many records have either replaced the or embellished the drums with samples. ( How many albums have the same Steven Slate Kick and Snare samples on them? ) A cool aspect of those trigger is that Charlie Benante can go out and play those Panters shows with Vinnie's drum sounds actually going out to the audience,
Well said! The issue is solely quantization and post editing of performances.
No it's not. Music is not a meritocracy. Ultimately, studio work is a means to show off what's in your head in the best light possible. That means "any means necessary" to achieve the sound you are looking for. If quantization is off the table then I suggest that EQ should be too. It's not how you dialed in your amp after all, so it's cheating. Post editing? What like mixing? You can't just arbitrarily draw lines when it comes to the creation process. Now, if you were to perform those songs live there might be some standards to live up to but even that get's blurry. Ultimately, it's about the music and how it connects with the listener, not some athletic competition.
Music as a profession has been a meritocracy. The act of creating isn’t.
I completely agree, if your artistic direction is to have incredibly tight music, then there is nothing wrong with that. I should have been clear and referred to "live" performances where people (myself in the past included) fixing performances with excessive quantisation/editing, whilst not acknowledging the process.
Estepario I really hope you make a trigger MasterClass in Drumeo. If you do, I will join Dumeo immediately!
Dude, you are a breathe of fresh air. Love your channel and your attitude. I'm not even gonna mention your incredible dedication and to your art. It is who you are. I can't wait to hear your collaboration with Serj.
Thank fuck...this is a PSA sooooo many mouth-breathers need.
On one hand, triggers expose terrible timing, on the other hand they mask your crappy dynamic control
no they dont
Who cares?
Mission: Create sound A.
Tool: Trigger
Mission Accomplished.
You make it sound like you can't have good timing or dynamic control if you use triggers.
Not true . Yes u can set them to sound like a full hit with a soft stroke but when set correctly they do a great job of mimicing the same acoustic . Understanding how to calibrate triggers can be a learning curve .
@@BaldorfBreakdowns is that me making it sound like that? Or just you reading it like that?
I didn't say you can't, I said what triggers can do.
But people like to argue on the internet, so here is a participation medal. 🥇
you can use triggers for sidechaining your gates in a live set, way cleaner sound. Helps a lot in noise stages
Scott Burns who produced so much original death metal at Morrissound Studios in Florida pioneered drum replacement. I think it’s pretty safe to say we’d either not have death metal or it would sound very different had triggering not been invented.
As a sound engineer triggers are great for live, because sometimes the drummers kit might not translate well on a live venue stage, or there’s no time to tune the actual drums.
What you're saying is if a drummer doesn't have consistent kicks it's difficult to deal with so you would prefer a trigger which takes the inconsistence out of the equation. Technology replacing skill.
@@internettoughguy a trigger does not replace the playing of a musician to trigger simply change the sound that is produced when the drummer hits the drum, so It doesn’t change the ability of the drummer there is no corollary between the drummer’s ability to play, and the sound produced from the sound from a trigger. I guess you might be confused, but that’s a fact so.
@@internettoughguy the comment was referring to if the actual instrument of the drum itself is out of tune or the drum heads are old a trigger can help. Sorry if that was confusing. Still again nothing to do with the ability of the drummer in ANY way.
@@ZebraandDonkey Drum triggers are velocity sensitive...as I'm sure you know. This means you can "trigger" the exact same sampled sound and volume regardless of how hard or fast the drummer hits the base drum. This means that ALL their hits will sound consistent....even if they are not. So yes, triggers can definitely mask an inconsistent player...I should know because I am one.
To play devil's advocate here... Is it possible to set a trigger to play multiple notes from a single kick? Like to play four hits per single note actually played ? I have no knowledge of this I was just guessing that is how people say triggers are cheating
You didn't address the issue of using triggers on the bass drum to trigger a sample of 2or even 4 hits for every one hit of the beater. That literally allows you to drum twice or 4 times as fast as you really can.
I use a launch pad that I hit using the end of my guitar to play midi drum loops. In Ableton Live, it is possible to create and trigger any length of a partial pattern that will be triggered and grid locked upon any number of sloppy hits. What I prefer to do is I set my tempo and fine tuning tempo onto foot pedals and select FOLLOW on the guitars DI signal and play along with stretchable timings so that the drums match my improv guitar rhythms and thereby unquantizing the grid yet still retaining the grid for other samples that become time stretched and warped.
My daughter and I are so excited to be able to learn from you!!!!!! Ty for doing this!!!
Been triggering kick since the 80's. The man speaks the truth! Love what you do bro, keep on keeping on!
This immediately reminded me of the song Archangel by Kevin Sherwood. For that song he went out of his way to not use preprogramed/MIDI drums but instead reached out to death metal drummer Darren Cesca to write and play the drum part, and it's some of the fastest drumming I've heard. You can watch a video of the guy playing through the song and see the beaters are barely moving more than between like ten and fifteen centimetres. Without triggers or some amazing mixing for those bass drums, that song could not have sounded the way it did.
What's also nice, is that you can set up the triggers with the drum mics so that the mic only picks up sound when the trigger is activated. Really helps with keeping unwanted sounds out of mics.
Mi hermano, eres grande! 🙌 Tus videos son estupendos.🔥 Mucho amor de Portugal. 🍻
I've always associated Drum Triggers to be kind of like Delay and Reverb with Guitar pedals. Just a tool to accentuate sounds.
Then you've never played drums before or just lie to yourself.
@@GirlsInYogaPantsAreSimplyNaked I do play drums, not at a high level, but decent enough at it. I don't own any triggers, but as described by El Estepario, metal drummers tend to use it for making their kicks a consistent volume when playing at high speeds. Sure, you could go the route that Samus666 went where you play a single drum and it will create a fast double or quadruple kick repetitive sound; But, that is difficult to control and requires even better timing to pull off for a full set or even song than just playing normally would.
You can go with outlier examples to say it isn't a tool to accentuate sounds.
Or, you can do the appropriate examples (which is what most drummers would do) of accentuating sounds or making your kit sound differently than it does.
I just wanted to say your English has gotten really good within the last year!
When did he start learning, out of curiosity? He seems quite fluent if it was only recently
Thanks for educating me. I play a bit of bass and had no idea what triggers were exactly for.
Amen brother!
love the hockey metaphone
Not to mention that most of the shit above 210 bpm sound like shit on PA. Too much air moving inside the kick to have a define and precise kick.
I like your covers, nice drumming bro
Sound guy here. If you're playing really fast metal, unless you have a really good kit with well tuned, good heads, good hardware, good dampening... I can almost always get you a better sound off a triggered kick. Even then the triggered kick can still edge it out. Some of the best ones they give me a trigger output but I still mic the kick and blend them.
@@user-zt4vf3ft6p "they give me a trigger output but I still mic the kick and blend"
There. Listen to this man, guize.
Unless you are Dave Lombardo or Dennis Ritchie, those guys play fast double bass up to 220 bpm with a lot of power, they play from full leg motion. But yeah, you're absolutely right about that there is too much air to move inside a kick drum.
@@user-zt4vf3ft6p i have not only 1 but 2 sound guy in my band and they are annoying (joking). Even with a good kit(starclassic maple) kick mic + trigger is the best solution tbh. 60/40 or 70/30 blend so isn't too clicky. Depends also on the samples you use on the ekit and good DI helps aswell.
comment section swallowed the clickbait 😅😂
💀🤣
How was the title clickbait?
He laid out the argument that triggers are cheating, then he proceeded to prove himself wrong.
@@randal_gibbons can't we just have fun? 💀 Why ya gotta be a Butt-Head 🤣
@@randal_gibbons title gives the impression that his conclusion is the opposite, which is the most controversial position and likely to generate more clicks. An honest title would be more like "Why triggers isn't cheating"
@@SallyChoiniere-uv7se this is me having fun. Damn! Can't we just have fun?
Love monitoring with them with Roland Tm2, but never out front as I prefer kick drum sound
Saw Eloy at Sick New World. Was hard to not see Jordy up there but dude absolutely gets down and is a great addition.
"Be a grown man. Don't be a Bitch". I love it!!!😂😂😂
"and trigger your dong!"
"I heard Dave Grohl can't actually play distorted guitar riffs naturally, he has to use an overdrive pedal. I want my money back!"
"I hate how these modern players use amps, back in our day we had to plug our guitars into the audiences ears, and we liked it."
@@NabPunknice one 😂
@@NabPunk😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 dude
Doing live sound, I was so stoked when a drummer had triggers. So easy to mix live.
Wow! At first I seen El Este's one handed videos and I thought. Ok great just chops and a show off. Turns out they were requested and after seeing twwo hand videos and how versitile he is. He is now my favorite drum instructor and influencer. He is a drum brother across the world.
This is a great video. He has great advice.
One big reason bands use triggers live is because it makes the live mixing so much easier. The lower frequencies are the hardest to control when it comes to the kick and especially when bands play different locations every time with different location shapes, acoustics, the audio engineer would have to reshape the sound every time they play. It also saves time on drum kick setups, especially bands who use 2 bass drums as you'd have to match the tuning or else it'll just sound very off.
As a person who codes, when I hear the phrase “Drum ‘trigger’” it brings up an understanding that a trigger is something which, upon being activated, causes a separate customizable action to be performed in response. SO that would be like hitting a snare, and then a trigger goes off which plays the sound of that same sampled snare hit after a delay of 0.5 seconds. IN this case it would be a bit like cheating because literally the timing of your hits could be creating a hit that literally never existed, and technically could be programmed to make a variety of sounds form a variety of percussion instruments if tweaked enough.
Don’t know how to play triplets, just code a trigger that samples your hit in a given tempo range and make a single hit automatically turn into a triplet through the speaker or recording software. 4:43 I don’t know why they are using the word “trigger” when filter, both accounts fits. Legit if it was a trigger, then by my initial understanding and reasoning it WOULD change what you play, you could play a slow rhythm and everyone would hear twice the notes out of it. Legit calling it something which doesn’t have such a loaded connotation, especially to people who don’t know what it is, would go a long way here.
You are technically correct. Triggers could be used that way and that would be considered cheating. However, it wouldn't be practical to do that because of several disadvantages:
-It's very hard to keep track of a tempo you're not playing while focusing on the one you are playing. It gets worse when you also have to keep an ear on the rest of the band.
-When you program a trigger to play a sequence you lose the variation single hits give you. It limits you to the sequence. You could solve this by adding more drums and triggers, but depending on how much you're cheating that could become very expensive.
-With single hits a small mistake is easily corrected; a sequence would take you out of sync immediately.
There's more but the main point is that it would create more problems than it would solve. So while what you describe would be possible, in reality it doesn't really happen.
@@andrevandervlies5700 So that’s a bit of my point. It sounds like they are essentially filters, not triggers. Calling them triggers carries with it a connotation that does not seems to fit their application.
@@pixelpastiche I see what you mean. I am not a coder, but I agree that they could be called filters. It's just that in common speech trigger mostly means "activation thingy" like on a gun or a trap etc. In that context trigger fits perfectly. Any connotations are unfortunate. It happens with some words.
Well said. Most people don't know about digital editing in detail and how it has destroyed music as a communication between humans.
They won't mind listening to an AI playing "like" John Bonham
Excellent explanation, what I been telling people for years, triggers won't make you better player, just can chose different sounds.
In line to start the course with you today !
Id like to know your take as well on edrums
Shitting on triggers would be like guitarists shitting on compressor pedals.
I think triggers aren't cheating because music isn't a competition, but it is an artform, and triggers are a tool to enhance one's drumming
And I like this analogy
There's digital drawing and then there's the classical drawing
Some people prefer digital while some prefer the classical way, and there are some advantages to digital drawing, if you make a mistake, you can easily rectify it, but digital drawing doesn't make your art skills better, if you are a bad artist your drawings will be bad, similarly triggers are like that it solves the problem of going fast and keeping dynamics, but if you play bad everything will sound bad as estepario said
i like using them in acoustic drum heads, i think they work better with acoustic heads. if you have a small snare drum its easy to make it sound massive and if used correctly can really enhance an acoustic sound
Very wise comments from you as always! Love your honesty Lot of players want to sound good without knowing their instruments and without practice and discipline. Gracias!
I agree with almost everything you say. However, i think a lot of the trigger hate comes from the place of exactly what you say triggers help with. If you hear a drummer on a full acoustic set that is barely touching the heads, he would never be able to play and be heard. If you take away all the physically demanding arm movement to create an audible hit, you arent having to work as hard, therefore not playing like a real drummer. If you are a boxer and barely hit your opponent 100 times faster, are you actually a good fighter in a real fight?
Looks like you didn't watch more than the start of the video as he actually used second half of the video explaining just that.
Guitarist: dude check out my new pedal that has this crunchy distortion.
That's awesome!!!!!
Drummer: dude check out my new trigger, I can change what the drums sounds like
CHEATER LOSER SKILLESS
Oh Mann.
In den 11 Minuten dieses Videos hab ich gestaunt, bin erschrocken, hab gelacht, wieder gestaunt, gelacht und so weiter.
Ohne, daß du auch nur eine einzige Note gespielt hast, hab ich jede Minute genossen.
Du bist offensichtlich nicht nur verdammt gut in drumming, offensichtlich hast du auch einen funktionierenden, gesunden Menschenverstand. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼✌️
I'm glad distortion pedals for guitar didn't get hated on like drum triggers do.
Distortion is part of the instrument in many cases, unlike triggers, a guitar setup and amp incapable of producing distortion is incomplete, however a drum kit with triggers is perfectly complete.
@@olliemills1234 But it makes you sound different than you would have. Tell Meshuggah that their instruments are complete without distortion.
Edit: Or maybe it's pickups that are the "trigger" of the guitar community. I'm glad pickups aren't hated on like triggers are.
totally different. not replacing anything. if you add reverb to a drum you still. have the drum, if you trigger a drum, you lose the sound and dynamic of the human to large degree/
@morbidmanmusic Ah, so it's ok to artificially color the sound... sometimes. Got it.
That reverb is simulating a drum that rings more than it's actually ringing, simulating being in a concert hall or large room when you're really just in your mom's basement. That's cheating!
To anyone still complaining about triggers in 2024:
- Set your click track above 220bpm.
- Play 16th notes on the kick drum with the sound that modern metal music REQUIRES you to have.
When you can do it, come back to the internet and reprise your complaining.
But its friggin lame 😭 if you cant play with power dont play it.