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I don't know why you expect so much from Viserys. He is weak. Daemon says it to his face. The Iron Throne cuts him. He "hunts" for the white hart and can't even kill the non-white hart cleanly with a luxury spear and his men holding the beast down. His weakness is why the common folk dare stage plays questioning the legitimacy of his favored heir. His weakness is why Vaemond thought he could speak ill of the Strong boys and get away with it. His weakness is why his own council plots about usurping the throne as they wait for his death. He banishes Daemon one minute and welcomes him the next. He can't tell the love of his life the truth of the situation during her labor of Baelon. The choice was save one (the baby) or lose both. She was dying regardless but give her the dignity of knowing and allow her to have the courage to approach it more calmly and perhaps help the baby in the process. He doesn't do anything about The Triarchy until it is too late and ultimately unnecessary. And then he doesn't order the region to be defended once they control it. He rides Balerion and when the greatest dragon dies, he doesn't try to ride/bond with another one. Yet he wonders how he will be remembered now that he has done nothing of note. He watches over his sons and grandchildren train and doesn't see the tension growing between the boys and how their trainer favors the older children. He doesn't see that just as he doesn't see through Otto. Worse, he doesn't see Otto's hand in getting him to be close to Alicent. Worse, after he has already fired Otto, he re-hires him once Lord Strong dies. Then he lets Otto and Alicent preside over his kingdom as he weakens in his final days instead of giving the crown to his heir. What is the point of clinging on to a throne he can barely sit on? Give it to Rhaenyra while you are alive and ensure a cleaner transition. Viserys is a pivotal character BUT he is not supposed to be a good one. Not when his weakness is central to his character. That he is able to muster up the strength to uphold the legitimacy of Lucerys and his claim on Driftmark is a great moment because he is usually so inept and impotent.
Fire and Blood is deeper than you think. Take the finale scene. The point is Baratheon can't read. It's the Maester who reads it and makes it sound condescending and commanding where Rhaenyra was probably respectful and generous. It shows us the Maester/Oldtown conspiracy to end the dragons.
It really isn't that Borros can't read. One of my issues with HotD is how they ignore some nuances and small scenes from the book that may look insignificant but do actually have significant impact on the story. Once Aemond arrives, he's feted and entertained because the Baratheons would always support male claimants to the throne over the female claimants. Borros' ancestor did the same when he supported Jahaerys over his older sister. In fact, Borros doesn't out right refuse Luke. If you don't mind reading it, here's a brief account of what happened: "Never a man of letters, he handed the queen’s letter to his maester, who cracked the seal and whispered the message into his lordship’s ear. A frown stole across Lord Borros’s face. He stroked his beard, scowled at Lucerys Velaryon, and said, “And if I do as your mother bids, which one of my daughters will you marry, boy?” He gestured at the four girls. "Pick one" At this time, Aemond had already chosen one of Borros' daughters, already making him kin to the royal house and Luke had nothing to offer. That is when Borros actually refuses to support Rhaenyra. Then, there's the exclusion of Maris, as well. I disliked the showrunners' refusal to include that scene and another key character moment for Aemond. In the end, they make him look stupid in their attempt to humanize him because it makes no sense for him to have asked for Luke's eye and chased him without any serious provocation(since they were there as envoys) especially if the show makes a point of letting us know that Aemond saw the loss of his eye as a fair exchange.
@@gracefasiku6885 mate, they had to fight to start the series before visery's death, but they were only given 10 episodes to do it in. They can't keep every single teeny tiny nuance of Martin's writing in it and still hit the hard limit put on them by the studio. Even the writers say they needed 13 episodes to do it perfect. But seeing as their hands were tied I don't see a problem with it. Also, of course it makes sense. He lost his fucking eye and he and everyone else knows war is imminent. Lucerys arrives alone on a tiny inexperienced dragon. There's all the motivation in the world there and you don't necessarily need further provocation to justify it. Just because it was there in the books doesn't mean it's needed. You mention that they tried to humanise him, but the very fact that he tried to spill blood unprovoked perfectly demonstrates his villainous qualities. It works fine.
@@IshtarNike I agree with you on the writers' inability to add every nuance. That's not what we really want as an audience and that's not what I was referring to. Let me give an example to contextualize my point. In GoT, the showrunners removed Jamie's confession about what happened to Tysha (Tyrion's first wife) when he breaks Tyrion out of prison. Although that information seemed small and inconsequential, it has a monumental effect on Tyrion's motivations and actions going forward. He goes to the East to meet Daenerys and because we were so excited to have two fan favourites meet, we kind of overlooked the logic behind his entire arc from then on. From then on in the books, we see that Tyrion has become a darker character. He'd spent his entire life being hated and he helped in abusing the one person who truly loved him for him. Jaime, who he trusted, turned out to have dealt him the worst kind of betrayal. So, when he's on his way to Daenerys, we can understand that he wants vengeance on his family, on King's Landing and everyone who wronged him. In the show, the confession is missing and eventually show Tyrion's character arc loses immense quality. The same thing happens with Aemond. If, as you said, war was imminent and Aemond didn't mind drawing the first blood, then what purpose was his regret, in the aftermath of Luke's death, supposed to serve? As Tyrion became a bumbling idiot who assumed Cersei, his power hungry sister, would give up the throne because she was pregnant or because they needed to unite the realm to deal with white walkers, Aemond became a big fool in chasing after Lucerys ON DRAGON BACK when he didn't have any intention to cause serious damage. Was the plan to scare him off or chase him back to Dragonstone, AT A TIME OF EXTREME HOSTILITIES BETWEEN BOTH CONTENDERS AND THEIR FACTIONS? Come on. I can understand the challenges and pressure the writers faced from the studios and I do give them their flowers for the work they did in the earlier episodes (apart from the blunders they made in Ep 5 and Ep 9). Still, great adaptations work, not because the writers really respect the story or adapt scene by scene, but because they can understand what made the original story work in the first place. Aemond is an impulsive person that is very easy to wound. Even the incident that led to the loss of his eye (which is another event that sets up his character-which the showrunners didn't include) happened because he was wounded by Viserys' cruel remarks towards his lack of a dragon and his masculinity. Maris (one of Borros' daughters) was essentially a plot device to trigger Aemond's deep seated hatred for his nephews and more importantly, his desire to prove himself as a man and a true Targaryen. Not everything translates well from book to screen. It's the reality and we know all it. However, anyone (writers, directors and showrunners) adapting any fictional work must identify the essence of each character's development and make sure their own work retains the essence of the original story-otherwise it becomes an expensive AO3 fanfiction. Thank you for the feedback 🙏🏾
OOO im not sure about the Grand Maester Conspiracy, but you might have caught something here. The maester could also have worded it harshly to help out the High Towers because they are the liege lords of Old Town.
Rhaenyra I think made two key mistakes. The first was allowing herself to become alienated from Allicent. The second was not pressing her advantages. She should have *made* Viserys agree to the marriage between Jacaerys and Halaena, he had every right as king. She should have made herself Hand after Lyonel Strong died instead of allowing Allicent to bring Otto back. She should not have allowed greens on the small council thereafter. She should have moved her far flung allies the Arryns and Starks earlier. Rhaenyra was a chronic opportunity-misser. I don't think this is neccessarily to the detriment of the show. It beat us over the head in the beginning with her being bad at politics, and whilst that mellowed out as she aged the core flaws we were shown are still there. I like to think of this show like an old Shakespeare style tragedy. You can see so many ways things could have been avoided, but you understand that with the characters in question there was never any other outcome.
yeah rhaenyra is an awful political player she did not take any of the opportunities presented to her. makes sense because she’s written to be a spoiled princess and thought everything would be handed to her just because she has a dragon and her dad is the king. makes being team black much more frustrating for sure hahaha
I love thus statement about it being like a shakespear story where all could have been avoided but the characters make internal sense for the plot to take this direction. Like, I saw a few channels try to pin things on plot holes, why characters didn't make better decisions, but it's really like saying "I think Romeo and Juliet could have just handled things better".
To be fair, at that point Rhynera didn't know Alicent was trying to usurp her. She thought Alicent hated her because she was "righteous" and Rhynera wasn't
I think you were harsher on the characters and the show than I would have been but I agree with a lot of the sentiments you explained. I also think it's not out of character for Daemon to choke Rhaenyra in that scene. That was a once in a life time, extreme circumstance. He thinks his brother was murdered, his wife's throne was stolen, his daughter was stillborn and Rhaenyra was considering peace with the people that caused all this. On top of that, he gets a final reminder that his brother never trusted him and some secret prophecy is the reason he should consider peace with the Hightowers. If he goes around being an abusive asshole to Rhaenyra in Season 2 then we can discuss how it's out of character but a violent outburst in the lowest moment of his life is very much in line with Daemon's character.
Yeah just because he's been behaving for a few episodes doesn't mean he didn't kill his first wife with a rock. I think people are forgetting what he's been like. He wasn't on a redemption arc or something. He just didn't have cause to be bad recently.
I don't know why people were surprised by this. Daemon is pretty much a sociopath, a fact that is established very early on. He's a great character, but not a good person. And given the circumstances, him choking Rhaenyra felt perfectly natural to me.
Yes, I refuse to look at anything in westeros lore as women are victims, I believe Martin shows bad stuff to reiterate how bad certain things are and in this case who hasn't made stupid choices when they felt low, assault is never ok but for daemon thing on prophesy was last slap in face. Respect and trust goes both ways, like evidently some stuff with daemon he was product of environment or to use the bad kid analogy, keep calling child bad till one day they accidentally do a bad thing then keep telling them bad till they think are. And daemon wasn't bad he was typical Targaryen guy who was blunt and to point, hated political nonsense and he wasn't deceptive, it was no secret yes he wanted throne at one time but he was loyal to house
Its not out of the character, because the guy literally is an evil character deep down, who seeks advantage for himself and his house. He literally killed his own wife because he didnt like where she came from. Its not out od character at all to choke or beat rhaenyra if she will behave for example a bit similar to Viserys (which is what Daemon considers weak)
@@petr5392 He killed his own wife because SHE ANTAGONIZED HIM. If you keep poking the dragon don't be surprised when he turns around and ''finishes you''. Blood & Cheese happens because they killed their child. Everything bad Daemon does is with reason, wether you agree with those reasons or not. Daemon is GRRMs fav Targaryen and to say he's an evil character is not just disrespectful to the guy who wrote him but also factually wrong. He is equal parts light and darkness, the greyest of grey characters. If he was truly evil he would've killed Viserys, Rhaenyra and taken the throne for himself.
I think Viserys keeps Rhaenyra the heir despite having a living son mainly because of the guilt of what happend to Aemma even tho he must have known it would be dertrimental for the realm once he died..
I think the whole point of Viserys insisting to his dying breath that Rhaenyra is his heir is them showing his regret for Aemma; had he valued the good of his family over the expectations of the realm. Accepting their only child as heir and fighting for her rights earlier would’ve saved his wife’s life; it’s too little too late but he won’t forget it again.
I also think 'deep down' he knows 'RHAENYS' should have been QUEEN. I say this because I believe that she would have known, like her grandfather, when to fight and when to STAND FAST for peace and his wife was right, he should have been more a 'Professor' homesteading his own land and libraries.
I also think Viserys favors Rhaenyra because she is the child of his true love Aemma. I know people think he was a great father to Rhaenyra but he also failed Rhaenyra as a father in a way too, he should've disinherited her once she had illegitimate children. It would've caused drama with House Velaryon because they wanted their blood on the iron throne but Coryls wanted to believe his son would grow out of his homosexuality instead of just accepting that his son wouldn't and most likely wouldn't produce heirs for their house.
That’s the thing though, I don’t think he would have had the same decision if he were just a normal man. I think his decision was mostly informed by his sense of duty, and I saw it when he lashed out to Rhaenyra, saying even he wasn’t above it. It sounded like he didn’t want to either lose his wife or to replace her, but he had to, because of his position, and his daughter thinking she could be excluded because she didn’t feel like it was what angered him.
@@Ms.Byrd68 That’s silly to say when you take into consideration what she did in the 9th episode. The woman talked about restraint and whatnot, a couple of days after she massacred hundreds of innocent bystanders for her escape.
@@alexman378 From what I know of game of thrones, no one is really perfect to be rulers. Anyone with squeaky clean morals are highly likely to face death early in the world of GOT. As of now, I think Rhaenys is the most level headed person around and makes reasonable choices. Also, idk how she was supposed to escape with her dragon in a sneaky way undetected without causing any damage. Seems understandable too that these royals don't really care about the common people, just their own family and power.
"Love is the death of duty", this phrase encapsulates perfectly the theme of this show. Viserys was obsessed with duty at the beginning of the series, by wanting so bad a male heir and in that process killing the love of his life, Aemma. After that he only chose love over duty, like choosing Rhaenyra as his heir, or choosing Alicent as his wife over Laena, which ultimately lead to an absolute chaos.
@Bla Bla Viserys was a horrible king, father and husband. If I ever hear anybody compare this guy to Ned then we are fighting. He was masterful in his performance in episode 8 though.
@Bla Bla he was very (And I mean very) physically incapacitated and in A LOT of pain. Also, Aegon had another parent, Alicent. Rhaenyra only had Viserys, thanks to Viserys. And he knew that. One of these two grew up having had their parent sacrificed, literally dead... Alicent kept telling Aegon he was gonna be king, his grandfather was hand of the king (He could have taught him a lot about the job). But Aegon definitely didn't want it, and he mistook his father's sickness and checking out as disatisfaction with him as a son. Alicent could have fixed a lot, she chose not to. It was almost as of it was Aemond's job to raise Aegon, which is impossible since ... Aemond is younger and had challenges of his own.
I don’t get how people didn’t see why Rhaenyra left for dragonstone 1.dragonstone is the seat of the heir to the throne 2. She’s running away from court scrutiny she alluded that everyone is scrutinizing her and everyone believes that her sons are bastards so she’s implying that her retreat will save her from that Also the episode 10 reasoning for her letter is not just reminding the Baratheons about their oath she sends a light letter because she discussed with Corolis they are Kin through Rhenes who is half Baratheon herself hence why there isn’t much concern Cole’s situation isn’t much explained to be frank. Good notes overall tho enjoyed the video
Criston Cole comes across as such a petty character. People like him do exist in the real world I just don't find him very interesting or his drive very strong
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy Exactly. Cole is also by far the best fighter of this era in the books. He beats Daemon twice. Breaks Harwin Strongs bones and destroys Joffrey in a tournament which left him injured and later dying of his injuries. Not killing him in a wedding rehearsal. Show Cole just seems like an unhinged simp for Alicent. Too petty and seems to lack self awareness.
I don't completely agree with some of the points about characterization. Like Rhaenys killing hundreds of people is apparently supposed to be a girlboss moment, but I like to see it as foreshadowing and reminding us that the royals, even the best among them, do not care about the commoners. Also, Rhaenyra sending Luke with to Storm's End made sense to me because she is clearly not politically savvy as seen in the earlier episodes where she chooses Criston Cole to join the Kingsguard and also when she insults her suitors. The thing about Alicent; while the episode 8 reconciliation came out of nowhere, I could imagine how 10 years of seeing Rhaenyra just popping out kids with a man she's attracted to, while she has to stay with a dying old man who doesn't love her could make her bitter. The bond between them could have been shown to have been stronger in the earlier episodes but I guess they didn't have enough time. But I have to admit that I have read the books, but the characters are so fleshed out and the Rhaenyra-Alicent relationship is so different that they might as well be different people. Looking forward to how the showrunners are going to tackle the actual Dance. Btw, great video and great channel! With the very quality of the content that you are putting out I was surprised that you only started only recently.
Great video with some great points. I will argue though that HOTD suffers from its pace, instead of benefiting from it. Characters like laena and harwin dont appear to be as important, but I found that their characters were building blocks for others, so their heavy omission made the story suffer in general. For example, Luke's death at the end would have been more impactful, had we had a couple episodes of rhaenyra and harwin having thier happy little affair and being a secret family. Same for laena. In the books she has a sad but sweet death with both daemon and rhaenyra tending to her in her final moments, but instead we get a shocking dracarys. And so as quick as she came, she went
A lot of good points here. I'd just like to say that Viserys's decision to make Rhaenyra his heir (and his steadfast support of her after the fact) was done as an act of love for Aemma as well as an act of repudiation for what he did to her in pursuit of a male heir. It wasn't because he thought Rhaenyra was the best fit for Aegon's prophecy. It was his obsession with gaining a son that led to Aemma's death; there's a clear emotional logic to him then choosing the female heir who he should've always favored if he wanted to save Aemma from dying in pregnancy. He says all this pretty plainly in episode 3. This is what one of the writers (Sara Hess) had to say about it: "Viserys was deeply in love with his wife Aemma, and never stopped loving her, and doesn't ever stop loving her. And he realizes that his quest for a boy ended up killing her, and he feels horrible about it. And this is his way of making up to her. Like, 'I should have realized [that] you gave me Rhaenyra,' and he says in episode 1 [to Rhaenyra] 'You are the best of your mother.' And she is Aemma's daughter, she is Aemma's child, she's the only thing he has left of Aemma, so he's going to make her heir and he's never going to change his mind because he's never going to stop loving Aemma. Putting Rhaenyra as his heir is his penance for what happened." screenrant.com/house-dragon-rhaenyra-viserys-heir-explained-writer/ None of this addresses any specific guilt for him butchering her; rather, the guilt that the story makes most accessible seems directed toward ALL his attempts to have a son with Aemma despite her history of miscarriages and difficult pregnancies. However, given all this apparent love for Aemma (and it IS apparent, since it's what drives his support for Rhaenyra, which is always apparent and central to the story), I can't help but believe he also regretted what he did to Aemma in her final moments. Also, I really don't think that the story would have you (or any of its principal characters) believe that Viserys was a good king. It struck me as hollow lip service whenever he was publicly lauded as "Viserys the Peaceful" after his death. I can't remember him ever being called a "masterful keeper of the peace" in a context that would put any weight behind those words. And OF COURSE very few people were going to criticize his reign to his face. But we as an audience see constant strife stem from his inaction. And in moments spent in confidence, his skill as king is questioned by Daemon as well as Alicent (when she tells Rhaenys that she should've been queen). His inadequacy as king is represented symbolically by the iron throne cutting him (the same cuts that become infected and lead to his chronic illness), literally rejecting him as king. Being cut by the iron throne has historically signified unworthy kings time.com/6207159/iron-throne-cut-king-house-of-the-dragon/ That's clearly the narrative that S1 is trying to sell about his rule. Paddy Considine's words about him: "He’s the sort of man who’s king, but he shouldn’t really be a king. Because he’s not a natural leader. He’s just a good man, and that’s not the quality you need to rule that kingdom" He inherited his peace from Jaehaerys. But by the end of his reign, he left his house on the verge of civil war. It's not a credit to him that he was the one thing "holding his house together" during his final days when he's the one who let it become so divided in the first place. However, none of this means he wasn't dedicated to the peace he inherited (if not in his kingdom, then definitely within his own court; he spends half his screentime trying to mediate and diffuse various conflicts, after all). He just wasn't very good at keeping that peace. I'm not sure why you think the trappings of his ineffectual rule (such as being slow to take action) disqualify him from being truly "peaceful"-if that is what you're suggesting. He wanted peace in the sense that he didn't want war-not between the greens and the blacks, and not against the triarchy (initially).
A train of thought I've had slowly wending toward the station that finally arrived while watching this is about Daemon's somewhat erratic behaviour: what if he sees the "darkness" in himself, "the dragon" within, recognizes it as one side of a duality, but his own interest in Targaryen history has led him to believe that it's a familial feature- not a bug- and so he wants to see more of it from the brother and the neice that he loves, family to whom he feels a duty, and when they spurn that- when they act like Dreaming and prophecies aren't just *a* part of what made the dynasty great but the *better* part, he takes that personally. He wants them- as Olenna would advise Dany in GoT- to *be* dragons, at least when they *need* to be, not to disown that part of themselves, because when they disown it he feels like they're rejecting him for a whole version of themselves, of their family, that excludes Targaryens like him. Suppose all of his bad behaviour toward them arises in response- or to preempt- his loved ones making him feel like the embodoment of everything undesirable that might reside in themsleves. It might also explain him ditching Rhaenyra in the brothel just when she started responding really favourably-- he was indulging that "take me as I am/this is who we are" feeling, being the version of a Targaryen others frown upon, and when she seemed ready to follow him there he saw how it might harm her at that point and the loyalty prevailed over the need for validation. Really trying to articulate some screwy sort of codependent (?) psychology here-- I think he wants to be validated as a version of "a Targaryen" whose power and lack of constraints he regards as important to their family identity, if not "virtuous," but which others tend to reject, and the conflict arises when he wants that validation (via sharing in its expression) from the family in-group he loves, but their relationships with outsiders requires them to seem to disown those qualities, like a political self-debasement.
Rhaenyra wrote a long letter to Borros Baratheon. Like, a full page. There were probably some other offers besides a request to honor his vows. Borros Baratheon can't read. She should have known that, of course, considering all Baratheons are like strength 95/100, intellect 3/100... Should have briefed Luke better as well, like, to tell him what was in the letter at least, how far he can go in negotiations and add an instruction "You see Vhagar - you run away". Anyway, Borros Baratheon calls a maester to read him a letter. A maester is being sent from Oldtown, that happens to be a seat of house Hightower. This maester condenses a page of text into "Remember your vows, asshole!".
So true. All the characters are WAAAYYY more developed. We spend more time with all of them. Also, excessive exposition, which is what the creator seems to advocate for, is lazy and boring (“show, not tell,” anyone?).
really? felt like season 1 of GOT have alot of subtle character moments without having other characters explains what they are all about. “rhaenyra is such a rebel”. nobody says that about Arya in GoT. they show it. idk. GoT still better. hotd still very welldone tho
@@raemontargaryen3005 I feel like people remember seasons 1-4 of GOT with rosy-eyed glasses a bit. I do agree that Season 1 of GOT was better. But not a LOT better: people forget that episodes 2-4 and most of 5 tended to drag as they set up the world. Lucky thing Syrio Forel's first scene is so iconic with SO MUCH subtext. Season 4 was also better than S1 Hot D. Bam. 'Nuff said. But GOT seasons 2 and 3? Excellent stuff but again, people forget that Season 2 dragged here and there until Blackwater ("The Night Lands", for instance, is ok -- but by being just ok it's also much worse than any HoTD episode so far). And Season 3 is held up in a lot of ways by the tentpoles of Danerys freeing the unsullied and the Red Wedding. I'm saying Hot D season 1 is the 3rd best season ever spent in Westeros, basically.
Hey all thank you so so much for watching! Sincerely appreciated. Just dropping a comment because my point about Aemma’s death has proven to be rather contentious. Thanks to all who have left comments about it - discussion and interpretation is my fav part of any show! I should’ve mentioned the context that Aemma wasn’t likely to survive either way - my bad - but my take is that no amount of context justifies making any decision without her consent or agency. She screams ‘no, no, no’ as it happens. The episode also highlights that at that time, Viserys was fixated on having a boy - to the point where he was hosting a celebratory tourney before Aemma even began labor. It makes logical sense in this fantasy world but is still a standout wrongful decision - read Paddy’s take below! None of this is to say that you can’t have your own interpretation or reaction, of course, but I thought I’d expand my thoughts a little in case it helps clarify why I feel the way I do. Main point: maybe she would’ve made the same decision, maybe she would’ve been fine with Viserys deciding for her, but in my eyes the tragedy is that we’ll never know, since no one asked her. On Aemma’s forced birth: decider.com/2022/08/22/house-of-the-dragon-aemma-arryn-death/ Paddy Considine on how Aemma’s death also killed Viserys (really beautiful take on the character that I hadn’t appreciated before reading!): collider.com/house-of-the-dragon-paddy-considine-viserys-aemma-death-comments/
Oh you sweet summer child... How lovely it must be to be you. To have been born in a world where you feel that even in a fantasy show, based on a historical time period, everyone should be allowed consent in everything, and given a voice. For millenia, our species has existed in a world of hardship you cannot even conceive of, and this world of fairness and representation that you think exists is an illusion, ephemeral, and fleeting. Enjoy your summer, sweet child. Winter is coming for you. Winter comes for us all.
@@BertnQuinnsandwich This is a television show made for a modern audience, set in a fantasy world that never existed. Also, medical practitioners from the time period it's arguably based on would have crushed the fetus to save the mother. Opening bodies was seen as abhorrent (in fact, Qyburn in the books was expelled from the Citadel for performing surgery, so GRRM knows this and uses it when it suits the narrative) and the life of a living woman who could conceive again was given higher priority than a child that would likely die regardless. Please learn to understand why art exists and who it exists for. It is not meant to be a window into some immaculately logical alternate world or historical time. The purpose of art is to reflect, criticize, or suggest changes to the world we live in right now.
Honestly cowardly to add that "out" for Viserys. The same thing happens in the book to another character but used here it's a justification that undermines the vileness of his choice.
I was never a fan of GoT, I was a casual viewer at best, but damn, I’ll say it, HotD got me. Found myself anxiously wanting more, being far more intrigued by their characters, their drama, the dynamics, and though I know where the whole story goes, I want to see their story plays out, specifically. Loved that show, it’s been a little while since I actively engaged with a show to the point where I looked forward to watching it during my day.
This only makes sense to book readers but what Rhaenyra wrote to Borros Baratheon is not known. This going into Maester Conspiracy territory but it is hinted that the Maester may have twisted the words in some way to make it seem harsher than intended.
out of 10 wat odds do u give to the grand maester conspiracy having merit. I think id go for maybe a 6, because of Marwin's claims, but we've had several POV chapters of a couple of maesters with no hint of it. Plus, their actions dont add up. If the maesters are so anti-magic then why do they allow for maesters to forge vayrian steel links and study the higher mysteries. Would'nt it be against their motto? Or is it that THEY wanna control magic, and have a monopoly on it, thats why they dont like the red priests. But this would be against Marwin's claims. Plus his claim that Maester Aemon was exiled by the citadel to the knight's watch is not true, because v know that he left to help his brother Egg get the throne. I think theres a hint of truth to the theory like the grand northern conrpiracy might be a cluster of smaller conpiracies, but i dont think there is a maesterly plan to eliminate magic. Otherwise they would be lobbying their lords to attack the red priests and invade the east.
@@blaubeer8039 hmmm, it's weird tho cause then vd expect Marwin to be the ring leader since he's the archmaester of the higher mysteries. He dosent add up.
@@dhruv9744 well you gotta remember the maesters in GOT have been brought up in a virtually magicless world after all the dragons died. Most of them don’t believe and the few who do know that magic is about dead anyway since none of the sorcerers can actually do anything anymore. I’d say they keep the valyrian steel link as just a tradition but even then they’ll all discouraged from it and the process to get it is mocked. it’s almost like they’re keeping it to make a point, that magic isn’t real, it’s just a farce, here try to light this candle and see for yourself. It’s part of the propaganda. It wouldn’t make much sense for them to want war in essos, they’re based in westeros and nothing about the rhllorists affect them in any way, they’re mostly just religious and not magical anyway. We only know Melisandre is a sorceress but she’s obviously not even human and the other red priests were only able to do magic when dany brought back dragons. I don’t know if they were completely anti magic but they were definitely at least anti dragon. dragons are basically nuclear weapons you can’t blame them for wanting them eradicated. it just so happens that magic is also tied to dragons so they killed two birds with one stone
@@morighani yeah true, v also need to remember that they are anti magic but not anti Gods, because they do worship the seven gods. The reason I thought they would be against Rllohor is because of the waves of invasion that happen to Westeros. The first men, then the andals and then even the rhoynar ethinic flourishing. But ig it would be more under the interests of the faith of the seven to go against Rllohor. The Maesters might be divided into factions just like everyone other org in GRRM's universe, and v see some evidence of this, with how Marwin seems to be completely against the ruling archmaesters at the time. V will probably learn more with Sam's chapters in Winds, and see the world through Sarella(Alleras) and Jaquen H'gar(Pate). Us Euron is coming there too next book when he gets to old town.
That wedding murder idiocy.. I have no idea why they made it like that in show. In books Cole kills him on a tourney ground, melee weapons. In single combat. But overall, I love HotD
I really dont think Viserys was ever considered as a "good king" but rather I think he is supposed to be understood as a "lazy king" or a king who just wanted comfort at all costs. That's why he's so easily manipulated by the Greens and also why he is so attached to Rhaenyra which plays out a really heartwrecking image of Viserys being only a symbol of what being king means. He is cruel yet in constant suffering throughout the show which is really what all rulers of westeros come down to at the end. I also wanted to point out how this show masterfully paints dragons and implements them. Thrones really cannot compete to the level of nuance dragons in this show represent. Dragons in this show manage to symbolize their riders personas, cruelty, weapons of natures, gods, intentions of mankind, and much more.
In the books he was never considered a 'good king' but book viserys and show viserys aren't remotely the same character. In the book he becomes an immensely fat and somewhat jovial drunk because all he wants to do is avoid issues that are boiling up under the surface. Of course the fact they have declining health for very different reasons is a superficial change, but the core difference between them is in the show he is doing what he can to keep the kingdom out of conflicts both within and without, but he's caught between the 2 most powerful factions that he knows are both trying to undermine him, and he has essentially no power base of his own that he can rely on. It's much less him being lazy and afraid of dealing with the issues as it is these factions ripping up his attempts to resolve conflicts and railroading him into a situation he either has shed the blood of his daughters faction (blacks) or the faction that is pushing his son (greens). People seem to think it's a sign of weakness that he isn't willing to choose between sides that BOTH CONTAIN HIS CHILDREN. His hands are tied by the fact that he doesn't want to harm of any more of his family (still haunted by ordering the death of his wife) and can do nothing by the end but plead for peace as a man who loves them, as all the power he has as king haven't been enough.
You’re comparing 4 seasons worth of Tywin Lannister to Viserys’ one season. Alicent’s sort of unhinged behavior was due to her feelings of self imposed isolation and paranoia thanks to her father’s Otto parting warning to her. For 10 years she had nobody whom she felt that she could confide or have some form of companionship with. Just her father’s warning while being forced to have pointless children. After six years of her father being back and finding religion, helped her immensely. Viserys did keep the peace within the Seven Kingdoms and with the rest of the world. The Stepstones were a special issue since they weren’t part of Westeros and whom they were fighting seemed like pirates but could’ve been proxies for the Triarchy. So Viserys didn’t want to risk war by getting directly involved. He was a relatively successful king during his reign, except when it came to his personally life. It was his choice to marry Alicent, to keep Otto as his hand, alienate his brother and name Rhaerya his heir which undid all of his previous efforts plus some, which made him a bad king. The point of the first season was to underline that. I am with you on one issue, Viserys’ choice to sacrifice his wife for a son. In the books, this was done during the reign of King Jaehaerys by Lord Baratheon with one of his wive’s. They likely moved it to Viserys because of the real world modern context. I have to disagree with the writing in comparison to Game of Thrones. Aside from a few episodes throughout, GoT felt kinda bland. The books were by far better. The only thing that I really liked about the show was the fandom community. House of the Dragons has done far better so far. I get you with the time jumps and the not taking time to really get into the characters. But the point of this season is only to set the stage for the Dance, the what led to the Targaryen civil war. And it must be said that the accounts given in the book shouldn’t be taken gospel truth. Just the general events matter, specific accounts need collaboration.
14:58:-15:01 the Iron Bank has nothing to do with the Triarchy (which is founded in the Daughters: Myr, Tyrosh and Lys, which eventually does have a bank)
In the books Viserys' state before he dies was due to the event with Emma. He got fat, depressed, and sick from the guilt he felt for his choice to let her die for the son he didn't get. He wasn't a good king, he was neutral and indecisive so he never pissed anyone off. He just checked out after his wife dies. In the show they make the cause an unknown sickness...Which it would have made the character more filled out if they stuck to the book narrative. Same with Allicent and Rhaenrya
In the show is pretty clear that the main reason he's so stubborn with Rhaenyra being his heir is because of Aemma, that's why they showed us the traumatic death she had in ep 1, because it defined Viserys until his death. In episode 6 we see him kissing Aemma's ring after Rhaneyra leaves for Dragonstone, in ep. 7 he tells Daemon something about how the daughters tend to look like their mothers, in his last breath we see him calling for her, and there are probably more examples.
You should watch paddy's interview telling about the core of viserys emotional arc and also his social media post, highlighting the very criticism you pointing out here. he took upon himself to emphasized his journey during the season is HIS DEEPEST REGRET on his action toward aemma. yes it wasn't scripted but the showrunner let him made that decision. but he did express it once in eps 3 when talking about dragon dream to alicent. he refuse to seek cure of his illness because he thought he deserve it, for what he did to his first wife, although he didn't outright decline the treatment. and his steadfast support for rhaenyra and his decision to make her his heir also came from the same guilt. He faltered once in episode 3 about rhaenyra but after that he never look back. and during his last breath he seem have premonition that his choice to choose rhaenyra as his heir is the right one, maybe he finally got the "dream" he always seeking before, and his word "my love" he uttered before dead is for aemma. he plagued by his guilt.
It amazes me how people draw shallow parallels between characters, usually good to good and evil to evil. Viserys is NOT Ned Stark, if anybody is Ned Stark it is Vaemond
One think should be said regarding Viserys. You talked about the inhuman choice he man in EP. 1, but also he doesn't forgive himself. During all the show Viserys is never concerned about his health. This is because he thinks he deserves it.
It might be the due to my watching weekly recaps and discussions of episodes, but I don't recall any character in the show calling Viserys a "good" king. His epithet was "the peaceful" meaning he went out of his way to avoid conflict, which viewers can see is a problem as early as episode 1. There were only two instances the whole season where he put his foot down and asserted needed authority: when he banished Daemon to Dragonstone at the end if episode 1 and when he reaffirmed Rhaenera as heir and her sons as legitimate in episode 8. Those are the only times we see him act in a forceful manner and like a "good" king. To the counterpoint, we get all kids of signs throughout the season that he shouldn't be king: him getting cut by the Iron Throne and then being too stubborn to amputate the infected limb allowing disease to rot him from the inside, just like his other inaction and lack of concentration is rotting the 7 kingdoms from the inside. We also see it with the hunt with Viserys not killing the stag with one blow like he should have and Rhaenera actually seeing the white one. So I don't hear other viewers nor even characters in the show calling him a good king, when clearly he wasn't, especially since we don't see him teaching Rhaenera how to rule, partially due to the time jumps, but their interactions together after naming her his heir don't show us her progression as a leader, just her trying to shirk her responsibilities.
I like your analysis. Very well thought out. Sub’d. Lucerys death highlighted one main point (IMO): that the dragon riders are not in control. And I think Aemonds look of horror afterwards was due more to the realization that he did not have control of his dragon (Luke’s dragon as well as seen when Arrax let loose with fire and hit Vhagar in the face) as opposed to killing his own kin (even though it was not planned)
Okay i'm about halfway through but i gotta comment. I think you're doing a great job of breaking down what could have been better about hotdog (im calling it hotdog now)
As a counterpoint to one thing, I think maybe they meant to communicate that daemon killing vaemond influenced aemond to go after luce again as an adult? But i do think that it reads as inconsistent. He's trying to be kingly and cosplay daemon but ultimately can't bc he is a petulant child. Or at least i think thats what they're going for??
The fact that you dont see love in between Rhaenyra and Alicent is just over me haha have we seen the same show? Cause it's evident that they loved each other, then they came to grow distant due to their live circumstances and then when Alicent is confronted with choosing between her friend and her son, she choses her son influenced by twhat's going on and those around her but wants Rhaenyra to accept the terms and let things be for her friend's own good. Also the show does a good job at "Cleaning" the bad of both sides from the book. Rhaenyra is suppose to become also quite crazy in her derailment to get to the throne and that is canon and would be seen in season 2 which will make a lot of us, see the blacks on a darker light. Events like "Blood and Cheese" will happened connected to the death of lucerys. Rhaenyra has to become a dislikable character by the end of the show. But I am sure the show will find a way not to do that.
was just reading that they cut a few scenes that I think would've built the Rhaenyra/Alicent narrative more clearly! There's definitely something interesting there, I just wish it came across more comprehensively.
@@jrrtalkin I think it's actually good that season 2 hasn't been written yet. It gives the writers time to read and watch all the feedback they're getting and hopefully make better choices in season 2 as well as address any plotholes that was pointed out. We need to also consider that once the story leaves the writers' room they have no control of it's visual representation. They can't demand the director do things a certain way or demand things are filmed in a certain way or that the actors enact the scene in a specific way instead or even that the editors to not cut out certain scenes. It's a team effort. It's unfortunate that if just one part of that team drops the ball the more public reps of that team get the heat.
Verysias is not portrayed to be a good king, but rather a weak king. Like many people in real life, they attempt to redefine their life, upon death. Vesryias is no different. I believe the op is applying a black or white framing in Vesryias, rather then accepting the character as it comes. We can personally have a judgment towards a character, and balance the characters actions and intensions as they may. Vesryias is a character layered in complexity, and it is left to the personal viewer to judge him.
Aemma gave the clue when she said to Rhaenyra, "Childbirth is our battlefield" Westeros is a brutal, dangerous environment for female as well as male aristos. Ryan Condal has considerably exaggerated the danger of bearing children in The Middle Ages to emphasize this point.
Coming back to this, I think there's some other flaws with some of the criticisms in this video: I concede the point about Daemon in the Stepstones. The caves thing is probably no big deal -- those are likely tunnels rather than caves and they just call them 'caves' -- I wouldn't be surprised if a place like that has been dug out and fortified over the past hundreds of years. But yeah, everyone coming out to get Daemon was kinda dumb. But sending Lucerys is NOT a dumb move. I don't think it needs to be said that it should be established that messengers "should never ever be harmed". That's like kinda expected in the real world already; you'd sort of need to establish the opposite. Also, sending someone as important as Lucerys is itself a mark of diplomacy: your support is so important I'm sending my son. Yes, it is true she sends her son empty-handed, but Rhaenerya doesn't know the Greens have sent Aemond with a marriage pact proposal to the Baratheons. For all they know they needed him to wed a Lannister. Probably they'd figure Lord Boros might propose a counter-offer. Seems to me that their mistake was not pre-supposing Lord Boros would be as peevish as he turned out to be. Plus, do you KNOW Rhaeneyra wrote something so simple in that note to Lord Boros? Did we get to see what was on it first? Remember that Lord Boros didn't read that himself: a Maester TRANSLATED it for him. Maester conspiracy? Think about it.
45:25 in response to when Daemon acts bad, I think he's prone to outbursts in moments of insecurity. This would explain why Viserys offering to send help drives him to assault the messenger. It would explain why he only decided to finish off his wife after she teased his impotency. He also kinda lashed out at Viserys asking if he needs anything. Just my interpretation. But either way great video, this review was made with care
This video is amazing, have to say I agree more with you than people in comments. It is an excellent show but 100% could be improved, especially scenes such as Aemma's death and how the audience forgave the kings so quickly for this. Your perspective is so fresh so thank you, I can see you're quite new to RUclips so please keep making videos.
Great video. I don't agree with some of your opinions but you explain your thoughts very clearly. You'll be an awesome addition to the ASOIAF 🐉🐲 community.
There's hard truths in this that I appreciate getting a chance to hear. A lot of illogical decisions, Rhaenyra's retreat to Dragonstone and so on, even feel better if you frame the show as dramatized history, a faithful adaptation of a history book with all the inevitability that implies. Others don't; it hurts a bit to see Alicent's character torn into like this, as I was really grabbing onto her as the show's closest thing to an actual GoT character, in contrast to everyone else who mostly embody one or two simple archetypes. And I think she easily COULD be as complex as Cersei or Catelyn if, as you say, the show were more willing to let her do terrible and selfish things for reasons we understand and feel, instead of trying to justify her actions as well-meaning but based in some misunderstanding. The sheer number of "this pivotal moment turned out to be an accident" twists kneecaps character agency as well in a way that doesn't feel satisfying. In the end I think the decision to try and Both Sides the Greens and the Blacks (something like 90% of audience polls support Rhaenyra anyway) did a lot of harm to character development, which aside from costuming, set design, blocking, music etc. is the one thing this first season really had to sell itself with.
I disagree a bit. I found Alicent's development rather good. Every episode we see just a bit more of that push into a cold, ruthless Queen. We didn't get this kind of character build up for Cersei at all. GOT started with her personality already at a certain point of development. We get a few crumbs here and there of what made her into who she was but none of this character study leading up to that point.
@@livelovelife32 All good points. I admit I have a pro-Cersei bias because I'm fascinated by the book character's relationship with her gender and I sometimes conflate that with Lena Headey's captivating performance. I really enjoy Olivia's performance as well and I think there's a lot to say about Alicent as a character whose self-image as a "rule follower" is the only thing standing in the way of her inevitable mental/emotional breakdown. But I also agree with the video that the effort to humanize her as a co-lead sometimes went too far this season.
@@ultratankie I think really a lot of it stems from a lack of time. They really needed more episodes. Everything seems a little rushed. I love Eve Best but most of her Character development can be done next season. They shoe horned her in there just because.
@@vanessalore9942 I think they needed at least 12 episodes. But Alicents change from episode 5 to 6 was too jarring. That's the problem with massive time jumps. Also the show was then inconsistent with their portrayal of the character because by the end of episode 8 and majority of episode 9 they clearly want to make her more of a sympathetic victim, but she ends up looking a bit silly and very hypocritical. So like the lady who made the vid said, not even an interesting character you love to hate, just an annoying, self righteous, hypocritical and indecisive sucka.
love your analysis, you make some very interesting points! my most major gripes with the writing really started from around the ending of episode 5, as well, and your video has helped articulate some of the decisions I disliked about it! although I will say that I strongly disagree that it's illogical of Alicent's character to reject the betrothal between Jace and Helaena, at least when working under the assumption that her driving motivation is protecting her children/family. I can see the scenario in which she accepts going south, personally.
When it comes to the Valyrian births and the impact that it's meant to have with them being so tough on the women, likely circles back to the fact that the Targaryens are full of incest. The only women seen giving birth are of Targaryen blood, Aemma was a cousin to Viserys hence her Targaryen features. There's also the added punch of the relationship between husband and wife, though this call back mainly centers around Aemma's death in episode one. We see both Viserys, who started this trend, and Daemon have to make this choice on who'd they save, mother or child. The main idea likely being, is the sacrifice of a wife worth the gain of receiving an heir? When faced with this issue Viserys opts to go through with it only to end up losing both, a decision that he regrets for the rest of his life. While with Daemon, knowing of his brother's decision, refuses it both with Laena and Rhaenyra. When it comes to the Valyrian women in the situation, namely Laena and Rhaenyra, it goes to challenge that idea of their use as women. Are they there to simply dispense heirs or are they more than a simple incubator? This mini arc is seen with both Laena and Rhaenyra, albeit in different ways. For Rhaenyra, she rejects the idea of that being all she's worth, to be seen as more than just a woman who is to fulfill this duty. However, after being named heir, being made more than a simple woman, she accepts being a mother as not her only station but rather just a part of who she is. She adores her children and because of her acceptance she goes onto basically be a baby making machine. In Laena's case this arc goes in reverse. Early on when she was still a child, she was shown to have accepted her station as woman, however when things in birthing room get too tough and after hearing her husband be questioned about essentially doing to her what happened to Aemma, she flat out rejects it. She sees herself as more than a simple incubator, she is after all a person and a dragon rider; something that is integral to her character. And so, instead of dying the birthing maiden's death she opts to dye one befitting of a dragon rider, in one last effort to show she's more than what the men in her world see her as, disregarding Daemon's calls to her. The importance of the birthing scenes mainly highlights the defects of Valyrian inbreeding and how the complications of that form of birth has an effect on the men and the women. It's honestly quite fascinating. And the reason why Alicent's births are never shown is simply because she's not inbred as the Targaryen men and women are. And I guess one could argue that Helaena's birth weren't shown either because her children aren't as inbred as the others, though I recognize that as a weak argument. I hope this made sense and thank you if you stuck around till end.
Daemon choking rhaenyra had me so confused, because I thought that he was dangerous, cruel, but also that he was the ally you needed and that he was all about HIS family. He also could have just ignored rhaenyra and killed her then husband instead of faking his death, but he didn't because she asked him too (at least i interpreted it that way). So ... noone is save from him exept for his family. E10 undermined this a little ...
A lot of interesting observations. In the end I couldn’t tell whether you were praising the show or not. And maybe that was the point. I do think that some of your criticisms had real merit, but I also felt that you were too harsh on the storytelling until your summary, where you appear to express real enjoyment of House of the Dragon and look forward to more of it. But I do admit to being someone who read Fire and Blood when it was initially released with enjoyment and am impressed with how they have brought it to the visual medium.
Most comprehensive and realistic look I've come across. As much as I want to celebrate a return to Westeros without digging too deep into why it seemed so easy for me to forget, this summary helped me contextualize feelings towards what I loved about this season, but more importantly, shed light on the aspects I undoubtedly had initial issues with, but likely chose to overlook in fear of discovering my blissful ignorance at a new high. Regardless, I love this show and you did a wonderful job showing a balanced overview of all it has to offer. Look forward to future videos.
This is a very good breakdown. Really went in depth with everything wrong with the format they used for this show, but also highlighting a lot of the positives. Also good compare and contrast with game of thrones.
I love much of you general comparison with GOT or the lack there of, when people GOT fans asked me if they should watch this show I said always that it reminded me to season 5 of GOT that you have a few character moments and some actions scenes but also that there are some moments that don't make sense like the Criston Cole scene it was unnecessary to break immersion for scene that is not really in the book.
I think that the actor who played Viserys said that the motivation that he constructed for him was that he felt so guilty over Aemma that he refused any treatment for his illness.
Great analysis! I don't agree with everything, especially most of the characters' parts, but you do make a lot of interesting points, thanks for the work. Also, I don't think is just that the writers don't want us to pick a side, but instead, this is the nature of the story they're telling. Remember in GOT the conversation Shireen had with Stannis about this piece of the story, she emphasizes the horrors both parties committed in order to win and that she wouldn't have chosen any side because of it.
Totally disagree on the characterization. I love that neither side is wrong or right. Both have a "reason" to want their side to win, some are good and some are bad. The characters feel like real people that make mistakes and the story feels a lot more tragic for it. Most of them were just born into their side so they have no real choice on the matter. And I'm only talking about the people in this conflict that have power. Every other person is considered less by them and they're just a pawn to achieve whatever they want. The only one that seems to care even a little bit is Rheanyra because everyone else was really happy to start a war that is going to kill millions.
Tbf, history is replete with incidents of wars lost because of stupid decisions, either borne of hubris or a simple inability to out think their opponent, so personally, this scene wasn't completely baseless. And the fight with the Crabfeeder only looks stupid to us (well, to some lol) because of the benefit of hindsight and the lens of modern thinking. Buuuuut if you parse the scene carefully, the Crabfeeder's did suspect a trap as you see him cautiously scouring the sky to see if beasts were flying about. Imagine if you were in his shoes for a sec and a dragon-less Daemon, someone who's the equivalent of a 5-star general btw, appears before you seemingly alone, kneeling and offering his sword in surrender, wouldn't you be tempted to capture him on sight? Also, Crabby didn't send out his entire army, just a squad. Only when Daemon made clear his plan did men rush out of caves. And the oxygen thing you mentioned, I'm sure they chose their caves well, with exits and ventilation in mind, among other things. A good commander would and by all accounts, ol' Crabby was one. He just made a fatal mistake, something as mentioned has precedence. You make it sound like from the onset they threw caution to the wind for plot convenience’s sake, which to me isn't the case at all, or rather, still a convenience but on a different aspect: Daemon turning into some comic book superhuman and going through the opposing forces like the proverbial knife through butter (taking a few arrow shots here and there to temper that fact. Really, show? lol). Still, good points all around. Check out Joe the Magician's take on the astounding visual storytelling tools the show employs to foreshadow things, specifically Larys Strong: ruclips.net/video/T4WdhncBNrA/видео.html
Good lord you can talk so well lol. Love this. I agree with most of what you said. And it really helps SOOOO MUCH to read fire and blood, then rewatch. You notice 50% more.
Just a correction. In episode 1 Viserys didn't kill Aemma. He made a choice between her dying or her AND the baby dying. He made the choice most mothers would want their husbands to make. Unfortunately, that choice still didn't save the child. Viserys has many faults. He should've included her in the decision for certain, and not doing so was an ***hole move but it's important to distinguish that Aemma was going to die regardless of his choice and her pain likely ended sooner as well.
Fair enough, I should've been more clear that things weren't looking good for her either way. It was her lack of consent or knowledge that I found wrongful though, even if she would've made the same decision herself.
@@jrrtalkin I agree with that 100% and Viserys wasn't a good King. He was also not a great person I think he was as gray as Daemon only in different ways.
@@jrrtalkin I dropped out of school in tenth grade to build homes with the other men in my family so I can't put my thoughts into words like you but yeah I agree with you it doesn't feel in my gut like something he would of done, whatever time period it is people are people we all love our family and want the best for them unless you just don't care about no one else's pain but your own which everything we saw from him accept that shows otherwise so no I don't see him making that choice without her, who wants that decision solely on their shoulders. I could see him saving her and losing the baby and her hating him for making that choice but he rather her be alive and hate him. So in my humble opinion his choice doesn't fit him anything but a long conversation with her and her urging him to make that choice and him still hating himself for it makes sense to me unless hes a straight up villain. You did a great job with this thank you for it.
I do think this was murder. I believe the whole point of the directors decision was to start the show with a controversial and violent scene. Remember this isn’t the medieval world in our universe, the show creators had a choice to define the culture here. In fact, HOD is much closer in language and style to our modern world, because of this the caesarean without consent felt particularly shocking following Roe vs Wade and the growing loss of womens reproductive rights globally. For this reason I found my toes curling at this scene. She screams no and it is clear she has no understanding around what is happening. By not explaining what was happening and by making the decision to cut his wife open without telling her, it becomes murder. She died of her wounds before she died in childbirth. The decision on how to die was hers to make not his and he only made it to secure a male heir.
@@oliverblewett5021 interesting pov and one I agree with. Consent is everything. Though some will argue that since when Leana learnt about the needed caesarean, she went and kill both herself and the baby and that would explain why the woman shouldn't be given the choice or even told. Don't agree with this pov at all but it's important in an argument to know all the sides in it. There ARE people who believe that once a woman becomes pregnant she has forfeited her right to consent if the child's life is in danger no matter what stage the baby may be at. That if she's dying then she has no right to say no in how the baby is retrieved.
Love your insight but you are soooo wrong about vicerys. He didnt choose the child over aemma. They were both going to die, but there was a chance to save the baby. She was going to die regardless.
@@jrrtalkin My gripe was, they couldn’t like OD her on milk of the poppy?! Then at least she would be knocked out beforehand and wouldn’t know. It would be more of a kindness for her to NOT know, imo. I see your point though, in that she should have had the choice to die giving birth, or die getting cut open. I personally thought Vicerys was a good man and a good king. Jmo
I don't think the show is trying to tell us that the characters are actually good rulers or fit for rule. They caused a war that decimated their family and burned the seven kingdoms. It is not different families fighting for primacy it is two branches of the same family wanting to take the throne for their own side at all cost
I love Rhaenrya, seems obvious that she’s the POV hero - I don’t see the show as balanced bw red and greens. Maybe it depends on the values of the viewer?
I actually agree some of your points. I liked Ep 10, but a lot of it made no sense to me. Rhaenys hesitating when the fate of her granddaughters lies in the balance. She never cared for the boys, so that bit of dialogue seemed out of place. All of her actions seems to be based on that predicate because they wanted to give her more to do. Corlys is gone for 6 years, and it’s crickets on social media. All of this is overshadowed because of the choking. The fact that he put the crown her head and kneeled. Ignored. The whole episode is overshadowed. Rhaenerya being cautious was fine because book Rhaenerya is a crazy person. Making Daemon war crazy does not. Not only is it the total reverse of what’s in the book, but also she begged him to marry her so he could help. As you said, they’ve been reasonably balanced on his characterisation. He must be a difficult character to write. Until this episode. You described those really well so I don’t need to repeat those here. They need to be careful. They ruin Daemon like they did Tyrion, they’re show is done
45:20 The choking is a conflict. His lowest moments are when his brother pities him, and he generally wants to be trusted by him. Then the day of his brother's death, his wife reveals Viserys never trusted him enough to pass the prophecy, a prophecy that defines the history of the bloodline he cares so much about, and not only that but Rhaenyra is acting more like his brother than him (when what originally attracted him to her was their similarity). I think the break is justified, one way or another one of his convictions was going to be violated there and putting them into conflict showed us his true nature - Daemon will always use violence as his preferred resort.
"My brother is a slave to his own prophecy, anything to make his feckless reign a bit of purpose. Dreams didn't make us kings. Dragons did." That was what he said while choking his wife, literally spitting on the song of ice and fire prophecy, his brother, his reign. How you came to the conclusion of Daemon just went mad because his wife reveals Viserys never trusted him enough to pass the prophecy, a prophecy that defines the history of the bloodline he cares so much about is literally beyond me.
@@indigard2747 well after he said that rhyerna finds out he never knew. The reason he went mad was because all his life, he just wanted viserys to trust him, but when he finds out about the prophecy, he realizes he never would’ve obtained that trust and acknowledgment from viserys. So he resorts to violence and insults but knows there’s no point and meaningless as viserys is gone and he knows that. In the last episode, the beach where daemon breaks down was originally for when he finds out the prophecy and realizing viserys never acknowledged or trusted him
Amazing analysis! Not saying I agree on each and every point - honestly, there are more where I don't - but nevertheless perfectly articulated and balanced! Probably won't be the first one with this comment or similar, but I believe that it was exactly the regret over Aemma's death that feeds Viserys' naming Rhaenyra heir and sticking to it throughout. It's as if he needed her struggles and death not to be in vain.
There are things that I agree and things I disagree with. Some of the plot "weird" things are actually nonsense stuff from the book itself. The idea of sending Lucerys for example is on the books stated the same way so there was little room on that. Same goes for Aemond challenging Lucerys. In the book it does happen as well (except one of the Baratheon women, when Aemond is stopped to do anything under Boros roof fuels Aemond to go after him otherwise he will be seen as a coward). Etc etc... Overall a great analysis but Its apparent that you didnt read the story so that some plots just scaped the action of the showrunners cause they needed to happen in the same way no matter how "dumb" logically they may seem. I think the main flaws here were not explaining through dialogue what happened to cole (maybe we get to that in further seasons) and Rhaenys dumb show up. Other than that I think it works fine.
I agree that George will write things that don’t make sense. But wasn’t Rhaenerya initially very reluctant to send the boys? I’m sorry I don’t remember, but someone convinced her based on need and no one else being able to do it. Regardless, they didn’t spend the time here to make that a little tighter. I’m not really criticising. I know they had to pick and choose in the limited time they have
She has read the book. She said so in the video and none of the points you raised were even related to any of the points discussed. Aemond intentionally killed Luc in the books. The video simply states that it was stupid to send Luc both in Book and show. The bad thing is that the show is turning some bad things the character did in the book as accidents just so the conflict is grey unlike the books where Cole, Allicent and Aemmon acts of villainy are by choice rather than accidents and misunderstandings. allicent's being presented as unwilling to steal the throne for her son presented as her misunderstanding her husbands last words etc
HOTD vs GOT, my bet is on HOTD. But if it's HOTD vs GOTD-8?, then my bet is on GOT-8. I wish they re-did season 8 of GOT first before tackling HOTD. You know GOT would've been my favourite series of all time, but because of season 8, that throne still belongs to Breaking Bad IMO.
I hate how Cristen Cole is being perceived as an incel. He was a dornishman competing with royals in tournaments. He's always been an underdog his whole life. He earned his way to the kingsgurad. One thing many people seem to forget is that he and rhenerya are in completely different levels of power. Not doing as the princess says can end up in his death. Him sleeping with Rhearya is the same as when Alicent sleeps with Viserys. They're both sexually assaulted. Unless of course people brush it off intentionally and ignorantly using the, "He had an erection hence it wasn't rape" bs logic. Then, after forcing him to break his oath, when he has nothing to his name but rhenerya, she tells him to his face that she only wants this knight who spent his whole life working hard to get to his position, to be her play thing. No wonder he was mad and killed jeoffry. Imagine being told that all your accomplishments amount to nothing but a whore, and then when the man is at deaths door (keep in mind that the fact that he slept with the princess can get him tortured and killed brutally) this Jeffrey guy comes and taunts him. No wonder he snapped. After the timjump, he becomes, in a way, a father figure to alicents kids since viserys is such a deadbeat. It makes sense why him and alicent got together. They're both victims of far more powerful people. Calling Cole an Intel practically ignores all the development his character got and only ties him with rhenerya as if he isn't a character with his own history and choices. This video actively ignores so much of the show that it's annoying. From Alicent, to Aemond, to Criston, among others, it's almost like she doesn't like the "less is more" approach and wanted things to be on the nose instead.
Considering the fact that Fire and Blood was written by masters, Visares was probably written as a great king because (as we saw hints of at the end)he was able to be controlled by them both through his wife and the masters that “tended” to his health. Viraris was in reality a weak king which is exactly what we saw.
I agree with a lot of these points, but I think Rhaenyra was always stablished as a bad diplomat, Alicent is right, she just knows she's the heir and does nothing to be in good graces with anyone at court bc the king already said she's the next queen. Unlike Alicent, who's been kind of trained to be diplomatic and knows how to keep people at her side, I don't think Rheanyra would ever show her feet to anyone even if it made her queen immediately lol. And I never saw Viserys as a good king, he's very neglectful and always seeks entertainement and keeping the people happy with feasts and tournaments, he never takes any crucial decision and is lazy at best at his job as king, I kinda hated him a little bit bc of how he never seemed to care about what was important for the realm, he only cared about what felt good to him. The last thing he did as king could be seen good from a father's perspective, but it's disastrous as a political move, his grandsons are bastards, there is no denying it, in protecting his daughter he's tearing court apart and providing all of the fuel for the civil war. I think the only reason they say he was a good king was bc nothing happened, literally nothing happened, no decision making, no changes, no nothing, only a woman as an heir and he never even enforced it as such. Like putting Rhaenyra in forced diplomacy lessons or something. He tried to be a good dad, but his soft hand did more wrong than good, his love for his family is his only redeeming quality in a very useless king tbh.
I agree that the exposition in S1 is very light and I think that's an unfortunate, inevitable consequence of HotD's precarious position after both the reception to GoT's ending and the recent WBD merger (HBO wouldn't even GREENLIGHT a second season until they saw the pilot's viewership numbers). This means the Dance of Dragons, the central point of the show, MUST begin after Episode 10 and all key players must be introduced and set up before that finale. It's like trying to do a World War 1 TV series without addressing the 50 years of tensions, colonialism, and technological developments, or nobody would understand why shooting an Archduke lead to millions of men digging trenches and throwing themselves in front of machine guns. So you essentially need to pack decades of history into 10 episodes and consequently there will be skipped characters that are dead before the Dance begins.
I'm not sure I agree. GoT didn't need to set up the entire socio-political and geographical layout of Westeros in order to get the story going. An ingenious intro gave the viewer a rough idea of where all the scenes were taking place and well constructed dialogue and scenes slowly gave us various perspectives on events that went before the narrative. It's like saying GoT NEEDED to start with the entire reign of Aerys the Mad and Robert's Rebellion to get the viewer situated.
The only thing I would disagree on is that Daemon in the feast was shown to be not at all above petty bullying when he toasted to the "Strongs" I dont see what happened as out of character. It doesnt matter how big your dragon is if you are still insecure enough to take being served a pig by pure conicidence at a feast as insult.
As the show progressed, I keep thinking about how the characters actions and choices don't always add up. I think the writers are squeezing in as much nuance to the characters as they can, but since the story is set in stone, the nuances they added in some scenes may look too forced and don't match their future choices. Fortunately, they have really good actors. Another thing is that a lot of the development in character that could have explained the changes happened within the time skip. I think you are one of the few who pointed out how many inconsistencies there are to the characterizations. People gush a lot about how good this show is (totally true) but we sometimes overlook certain writing issues because of how enjoyable and beyond expectations this show has been.
@@alvisaverciel9428 Yeahhhh, If the mummer's blackfyre dragon theory is ryt then he might possibly be a blackfyre himself. Regardless, theres a high possibility that he speaks high valyrian, or atleast one of the derivative dialects in the free cities.
Even though I disagree with most things you said, I do appreciate you pointing out the flaws in HotD. As someone who quite enjoyed the latter seasons of GoT, it was a bit bizarre seeing people almost blindly praise HotD despite it having the same problems that those same people used as excuses to tare into the latter seasons of Thrones. I personally didn't mind these problems in either Thrones or HotD (if I even consider them problems) but I still felt like someone needed to point out that hypocracy from the fanbase.
Most other GoT channels blowing smoke up peoples ass about HotD. at the end of the day u still have to make a captivating TV series so the audience can be invested, no if's buts or ands about it. Of course super fans and book readers are already invested. Unfortunately show runners left out the wider audience and settled for mediocrity. Let's not give the show-runners any excuses next time.
@@Ismael-xv6mj It seems like a lot of casual fans enjoyed it too. I'd say it was a solid 7.5/10 season. Even if we just rate it as a TV show without source material. Some brilliant moments with acting, directing, score, visuals, cinematography and CGI. Some lousy and contrived moments, some shock value moments that made no sense, but overall it was better than season 7 and 8 of game of thrones. Think it was on the same level as season 5 and 6. Prob nothing in HOTD was as bad as Dorne in season 5 though.
@@Ismael-xv6mj I had high expectations as I followed the production before the premiere, so I was a bit disappointed the way certain things were handled. I did not really like the way they handled Daemon and Criston Cole's characters. Also was not really feeling Paddy Considine as Viserys the first couple of episodes. Add in some of the bad wigs, bad CGI and poor establishing shots, I was concerned. Some of the CGI later on redeemed it though. Also I felt the music was not that great from Ramin. Only like 3 of them really stood out.
@@nostalgicbliss5547 despite all the praise HotD is receiving. I think it's painfully mediocre. Poor decisions all around. Lazy and very uninspiring. Acting and the CGI are ok. Not impressive at all. fandom needs to demand better!! I thought most GoT channels would make that clear. Especially after GoT ending. HotD being better than GoT ending really isn't saying much. I wouldn't recommend this show. It's either worth watching or it's not. And it's not
I disagree with your conclusion of what he did to his wife. The maester flat out tells him that either both die or the child "might" live. He's horrified beyond belief at what he's being told and he makes a horrifying choice. Yes, he should have told her what was happening, but from a human emotional perspective he just flat out couldn't. Not because of evil, but because of how horrific it was. He was horrified by the choice given to him. And when chosing between either both wife and child dying or saving the child, what would you have a father do? I'm sure his wife would have said the same thing, save the child. She had already born several stillborns and could not bare the thought of trying to have more children after this one (regardless of outcome) because she could not stand losing more children. Now yes, he SHOULD have talked to her, but you can also sympathise with him as to why he couldn't. He couldn't tell her what was happening because he himself did not want to face reality of what was happening. Was it still horrifying? Yes. Can i still sympathise with him as a person? Yes. Hell they say the same thing to Daemon regarding Laena 5 episodes later. It's clearly quite common. (the hint being imbreeding..., Aemma was also a Targaryen on her mothers side and first cousin to Viserys) . Naming Rhaenyra and keeping Rhaenyra as heir was also obviously because he felt such guilt over his first wifes death and that Rhaenyra is the only thing left of his first wife's legacy. Everyone assumed he'd name Aegon his heir once he was born and it would have been completly logical to do so. Hell even legitimize a potential bastard son would have been logical in patriarchal, feudal Westeros society. But he kept Rhaenyra as his heir, because he loved her and especially her mother.
I so agree! What you said about Viserys is to true. I feel like most people choose to forget 1 episode and birth scene. I was so horrified by this scene and his decision and her not knowing what is happening.
On the caves in the Seastones, if dragons were to fire directly into them their eyes and lives would be vulnerable to archers. On Viserys’s choice with Aemma, denying her agency was wrong and her death was (according to the experts in the room) was unavoidable.
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I don't know why you expect so much from Viserys. He is weak. Daemon says it to his face. The Iron Throne cuts him. He "hunts" for the white hart and can't even kill the non-white hart cleanly with a luxury spear and his men holding the beast down. His weakness is why the common folk dare stage plays questioning the legitimacy of his favored heir. His weakness is why Vaemond thought he could speak ill of the Strong boys and get away with it. His weakness is why his own council plots about usurping the throne as they wait for his death. He banishes Daemon one minute and welcomes him the next.
He can't tell the love of his life the truth of the situation during her labor of Baelon. The choice was save one (the baby) or lose both. She was dying regardless but give her the dignity of knowing and allow her to have the courage to approach it more calmly and perhaps help the baby in the process.
He doesn't do anything about The Triarchy until it is too late and ultimately unnecessary. And then he doesn't order the region to be defended once they control it. He rides Balerion and when the greatest dragon dies, he doesn't try to ride/bond with another one. Yet he wonders how he will be remembered now that he has done nothing of note.
He watches over his sons and grandchildren train and doesn't see the tension growing between the boys and how their trainer favors the older children. He doesn't see that just as he doesn't see through Otto. Worse, he doesn't see Otto's hand in getting him to be close to Alicent. Worse, after he has already fired Otto, he re-hires him once Lord Strong dies.
Then he lets Otto and Alicent preside over his kingdom as he weakens in his final days instead of giving the crown to his heir. What is the point of clinging on to a throne he can barely sit on? Give it to Rhaenyra while you are alive and ensure a cleaner transition.
Viserys is a pivotal character BUT he is not supposed to be a good one. Not when his weakness is central to his character. That he is able to muster up the strength to uphold the legitimacy of Lucerys and his claim on Driftmark is a great moment because he is usually so inept and impotent.
Fire and Blood is deeper than you think. Take the finale scene. The point is Baratheon can't read. It's the Maester who reads it and makes it sound condescending and commanding where Rhaenyra was probably respectful and generous. It shows us the Maester/Oldtown conspiracy to end the dragons.
It really isn't that Borros can't read. One of my issues with HotD is how they ignore some nuances and small scenes from the book that may look insignificant but do actually have significant impact on the story. Once Aemond arrives, he's feted and entertained because the Baratheons would always support male claimants to the throne over the female claimants. Borros' ancestor did the same when he supported Jahaerys over his older sister. In fact, Borros doesn't out right refuse Luke. If you don't mind reading it, here's a brief account of what happened:
"Never a man of letters, he handed the queen’s letter to his maester, who cracked the seal and whispered the message into his lordship’s ear. A frown stole across Lord Borros’s face. He stroked his beard, scowled at Lucerys Velaryon, and said, “And if I do as your mother bids, which one of my daughters will you marry, boy?” He gestured at the four girls. "Pick one"
At this time, Aemond had already chosen one of Borros' daughters, already making him kin to the royal house and Luke had nothing to offer. That is when Borros actually refuses to support Rhaenyra.
Then, there's the exclusion of Maris, as well. I disliked the showrunners' refusal to include that scene and another key character moment for Aemond. In the end, they make him look stupid in their attempt to humanize him because it makes no sense for him to have asked for Luke's eye and chased him without any serious provocation(since they were there as envoys) especially if the show makes a point of letting us know that Aemond saw the loss of his eye as a fair exchange.
@@gracefasiku6885 mate, they had to fight to start the series before visery's death, but they were only given 10 episodes to do it in. They can't keep every single teeny tiny nuance of Martin's writing in it and still hit the hard limit put on them by the studio. Even the writers say they needed 13 episodes to do it perfect. But seeing as their hands were tied I don't see a problem with it.
Also, of course it makes sense. He lost his fucking eye and he and everyone else knows war is imminent. Lucerys arrives alone on a tiny inexperienced dragon. There's all the motivation in the world there and you don't necessarily need further provocation to justify it. Just because it was there in the books doesn't mean it's needed. You mention that they tried to humanise him, but the very fact that he tried to spill blood unprovoked perfectly demonstrates his villainous qualities. It works fine.
@@IshtarNike I agree with you on the writers' inability to add every nuance. That's not what we really want as an audience and that's not what I was referring to. Let me give an example to contextualize my point. In GoT, the showrunners removed Jamie's confession about what happened to Tysha (Tyrion's first wife) when he breaks Tyrion out of prison. Although that information seemed small and inconsequential, it has a monumental effect on Tyrion's motivations and actions going forward. He goes to the East to meet Daenerys and because we were so excited to have two fan favourites meet, we kind of overlooked the logic behind his entire arc from then on. From then on in the books, we see that Tyrion has become a darker character. He'd spent his entire life being hated and he helped in abusing the one person who truly loved him for him. Jaime, who he trusted, turned out to have dealt him the worst kind of betrayal. So, when he's on his way to Daenerys, we can understand that he wants vengeance on his family, on King's Landing and everyone who wronged him. In the show, the confession is missing and eventually show Tyrion's character arc loses immense quality.
The same thing happens with Aemond. If, as you said, war was imminent and Aemond didn't mind drawing the first blood, then what purpose was his regret, in the aftermath of Luke's death, supposed to serve? As Tyrion became a bumbling idiot who assumed Cersei, his power hungry sister, would give up the throne because she was pregnant or because they needed to unite the realm to deal with white walkers, Aemond became a big fool in chasing after Lucerys ON DRAGON BACK when he didn't have any intention to cause serious damage. Was the plan to scare him off or chase him back to Dragonstone, AT A TIME OF EXTREME HOSTILITIES BETWEEN BOTH CONTENDERS AND THEIR FACTIONS? Come on.
I can understand the challenges and pressure the writers faced from the studios and I do give them their flowers for the work they did in the earlier episodes (apart from the blunders they made in Ep 5 and Ep 9). Still, great adaptations work, not because the writers really respect the story or adapt scene by scene, but because they can understand what made the original story work in the first place.
Aemond is an impulsive person that is very easy to wound. Even the incident that led to the loss of his eye (which is another event that sets up his character-which the showrunners didn't include) happened because he was wounded by Viserys' cruel remarks towards his lack of a dragon and his masculinity. Maris (one of Borros' daughters) was essentially a plot device to trigger Aemond's deep seated hatred for his nephews and more importantly, his desire to prove himself as a man and a true Targaryen.
Not everything translates well from book to screen. It's the reality and we know all it. However, anyone (writers, directors and showrunners) adapting any fictional work must identify the essence of each character's development and make sure their own work retains the essence of the original story-otherwise it becomes an expensive AO3 fanfiction.
Thank you for the feedback 🙏🏾
OOO im not sure about the Grand Maester Conspiracy, but you might have caught something here. The maester could also have worded it harshly to help out the High Towers because they are the liege lords of Old Town.
Rhaenyra I think made two key mistakes. The first was allowing herself to become alienated from Allicent. The second was not pressing her advantages. She should have *made* Viserys agree to the marriage between Jacaerys and Halaena, he had every right as king. She should have made herself Hand after Lyonel Strong died instead of allowing Allicent to bring Otto back. She should not have allowed greens on the small council thereafter. She should have moved her far flung allies the Arryns and Starks earlier. Rhaenyra was a chronic opportunity-misser. I don't think this is neccessarily to the detriment of the show. It beat us over the head in the beginning with her being bad at politics, and whilst that mellowed out as she aged the core flaws we were shown are still there. I like to think of this show like an old Shakespeare style tragedy. You can see so many ways things could have been avoided, but you understand that with the characters in question there was never any other outcome.
yeah rhaenyra is an awful political player she did not take any of the opportunities presented to her. makes sense because she’s written to be a spoiled princess and thought everything would be handed to her just because she has a dragon and her dad is the king. makes being team black much more frustrating for sure hahaha
Also should have gone for a guy who looked like her husband. And probably started to make allies way before Viserys death
I love thus statement about it being like a shakespear story where all could have been avoided but the characters make internal sense for the plot to take this direction.
Like, I saw a few channels try to pin things on plot holes, why characters didn't make better decisions, but it's really like saying "I think Romeo and Juliet could have just handled things better".
She couldn’t have done all that while she was in Dragonstone.
To be fair, at that point Rhynera didn't know Alicent was trying to usurp her. She thought Alicent hated her because she was "righteous" and Rhynera wasn't
I think you were harsher on the characters and the show than I would have been but I agree with a lot of the sentiments you explained. I also think it's not out of character for Daemon to choke Rhaenyra in that scene. That was a once in a life time, extreme circumstance. He thinks his brother was murdered, his wife's throne was stolen, his daughter was stillborn and Rhaenyra was considering peace with the people that caused all this. On top of that, he gets a final reminder that his brother never trusted him and some secret prophecy is the reason he should consider peace with the Hightowers. If he goes around being an abusive asshole to Rhaenyra in Season 2 then we can discuss how it's out of character but a violent outburst in the lowest moment of his life is very much in line with Daemon's character.
Yeah just because he's been behaving for a few episodes doesn't mean he didn't kill his first wife with a rock. I think people are forgetting what he's been like. He wasn't on a redemption arc or something. He just didn't have cause to be bad recently.
I don't know why people were surprised by this. Daemon is pretty much a sociopath, a fact that is established very early on. He's a great character, but not a good person. And given the circumstances, him choking Rhaenyra felt perfectly natural to me.
Yes, I refuse to look at anything in westeros lore as women are victims, I believe Martin shows bad stuff to reiterate how bad certain things are and in this case who hasn't made stupid choices when they felt low, assault is never ok but for daemon thing on prophesy was last slap in face. Respect and trust goes both ways, like evidently some stuff with daemon he was product of environment or to use the bad kid analogy, keep calling child bad till one day they accidentally do a bad thing then keep telling them bad till they think are. And daemon wasn't bad he was typical Targaryen guy who was blunt and to point, hated political nonsense and he wasn't deceptive, it was no secret yes he wanted throne at one time but he was loyal to house
Its not out of the character, because the guy literally is an evil character deep down, who seeks advantage for himself and his house. He literally killed his own wife because he didnt like where she came from. Its not out od character at all to choke or beat rhaenyra if she will behave for example a bit similar to Viserys (which is what Daemon considers weak)
@@petr5392 He killed his own wife because SHE ANTAGONIZED HIM. If you keep poking the dragon don't be surprised when he turns around and ''finishes you''. Blood & Cheese happens because they killed their child. Everything bad Daemon does is with reason, wether you agree with those reasons or not. Daemon is GRRMs fav Targaryen and to say he's an evil character is not just disrespectful to the guy who wrote him but also factually wrong. He is equal parts light and darkness, the greyest of grey characters. If he was truly evil he would've killed Viserys, Rhaenyra and taken the throne for himself.
I think Viserys keeps Rhaenyra the heir despite having a living son mainly because of the guilt of what happend to Aemma even tho he must have known it would be dertrimental for the realm once he died..
It's a drama and everyone is hooked, including me.
I think that it was the case of him not wanting to look weak by seeming to be indecisive. When Viserys makes a decision, he stands by it.
Or maybe because once you disclose the prophecy, it’s final?
@@shockwave1126 was rhaenyra the only one he told?
@@auri2773yeah he didn’t even tell daemon even tho that was his predetermined heir b4 rhaenyra
I think the whole point of Viserys insisting to his dying breath that Rhaenyra is his heir is them showing his regret for Aemma; had he valued the good of his family over the expectations of the realm. Accepting their only child as heir and fighting for her rights earlier would’ve saved his wife’s life; it’s too little too late but he won’t forget it again.
I also think 'deep down' he knows 'RHAENYS' should have been QUEEN. I say this because I believe that she would have known, like her grandfather, when to fight and when to STAND FAST for peace and his wife was right, he should have been more a 'Professor' homesteading his own land and libraries.
I also think Viserys favors Rhaenyra because she is the child of his true love Aemma. I know people think he was a great father to Rhaenyra but he also failed Rhaenyra as a father in a way too, he should've disinherited her once she had illegitimate children. It would've caused drama with House Velaryon because they wanted their blood on the iron throne but Coryls wanted to believe his son would grow out of his homosexuality instead of just accepting that his son wouldn't and most likely wouldn't produce heirs for their house.
That’s the thing though, I don’t think he would have had the same decision if he were just a normal man. I think his decision was mostly informed by his sense of duty, and I saw it when he lashed out to Rhaenyra, saying even he wasn’t above it. It sounded like he didn’t want to either lose his wife or to replace her, but he had to, because of his position, and his daughter thinking she could be excluded because she didn’t feel like it was what angered him.
@@Ms.Byrd68 That’s silly to say when you take into consideration what she did in the 9th episode. The woman talked about restraint and whatnot, a couple of days after she massacred hundreds of innocent bystanders for her escape.
@@alexman378 From what I know of game of thrones, no one is really perfect to be rulers. Anyone with squeaky clean morals are highly likely to face death early in the world of GOT. As of now, I think Rhaenys is the most level headed person around and makes reasonable choices. Also, idk how she was supposed to escape with her dragon in a sneaky way undetected without causing any damage. Seems understandable too that these royals don't really care about the common people, just their own family and power.
"Love is the death of duty", this phrase encapsulates perfectly the theme of this show. Viserys was obsessed with duty at the beginning of the series, by wanting so bad a male heir and in that process killing the love of his life, Aemma. After that he only chose love over duty, like choosing Rhaenyra as his heir, or choosing Alicent as his wife over Laena, which ultimately lead to an absolute chaos.
Agreed
@Bla Bla Viserys was a horrible king, father and husband. If I ever hear anybody compare this guy to Ned then we are fighting. He was masterful in his performance in episode 8 though.
👍👌
@Bla Bla he was very (And I mean very) physically incapacitated and in A LOT of pain.
Also, Aegon had another parent, Alicent. Rhaenyra only had Viserys, thanks to Viserys.
And he knew that.
One of these two grew up having had their parent sacrificed, literally dead...
Alicent kept telling Aegon he was gonna be king, his grandfather was hand of the king (He could have taught him a lot about the job). But Aegon definitely didn't want it, and he mistook his father's sickness and checking out as disatisfaction with him as a son.
Alicent could have fixed a lot, she chose not to. It was almost as of it was Aemond's job to raise Aegon, which is impossible since ...
Aemond is younger and had challenges of his own.
I don’t get how people didn’t see why Rhaenyra left for dragonstone 1.dragonstone is the seat of the heir to the throne 2. She’s running away from court scrutiny she alluded that everyone is scrutinizing her and everyone believes that her sons are bastards so she’s implying that her retreat will save her from that
Also the episode 10 reasoning for her letter is not just reminding the Baratheons about their oath she sends a light letter because she discussed with Corolis they are Kin through Rhenes who is half Baratheon herself hence why there isn’t much concern
Cole’s situation isn’t much explained to be frank. Good notes overall tho enjoyed the video
Yes I hope Cole is expanded on more in season 2.
Who the hell is Corolis and Rhenes?
Criston Cole comes across as such a petty character. People like him do exist in the real world I just don't find him very interesting or his drive very strong
@@american1207 the book version was far better even though we knew less about him
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy Exactly. Cole is also by far the best fighter of this era in the books. He beats Daemon twice. Breaks Harwin Strongs bones and destroys Joffrey in a tournament which left him injured and later dying of his injuries. Not killing him in a wedding rehearsal. Show Cole just seems like an unhinged simp for Alicent. Too petty and seems to lack self awareness.
I don't completely agree with some of the points about characterization. Like Rhaenys killing hundreds of people is apparently supposed to be a girlboss moment, but I like to see it as foreshadowing and reminding us that the royals, even the best among them, do not care about the commoners.
Also, Rhaenyra sending Luke with to Storm's End made sense to me because she is clearly not politically savvy as seen in the earlier episodes where she chooses Criston Cole to join the Kingsguard and also when she insults her suitors.
The thing about Alicent; while the episode 8 reconciliation came out of nowhere, I could imagine how 10 years of seeing Rhaenyra just popping out kids with a man she's attracted to, while she has to stay with a dying old man who doesn't love her could make her bitter. The bond between them could have been shown to have been stronger in the earlier episodes but I guess they didn't have enough time.
But I have to admit that I have read the books, but the characters are so fleshed out and the Rhaenyra-Alicent relationship is so different that they might as well be different people. Looking forward to how the showrunners are going to tackle the actual Dance.
Btw, great video and great channel! With the very quality of the content that you are putting out I was surprised that you only started only recently.
thank you!! I like your interpretation of Rhaenys in ep 9 better than the writers' explanation
Great video with some great points. I will argue though that HOTD suffers from its pace, instead of benefiting from it. Characters like laena and harwin dont appear to be as important, but I found that their characters were building blocks for others, so their heavy omission made the story suffer in general. For example, Luke's death at the end would have been more impactful, had we had a couple episodes of rhaenyra and harwin having thier happy little affair and being a secret family. Same for laena. In the books she has a sad but sweet death with both daemon and rhaenyra tending to her in her final moments, but instead we get a shocking dracarys. And so as quick as she came, she went
A lot of good points here. I'd just like to say that Viserys's decision to make Rhaenyra his heir (and his steadfast support of her after the fact) was done as an act of love for Aemma as well as an act of repudiation for what he did to her in pursuit of a male heir. It wasn't because he thought Rhaenyra was the best fit for Aegon's prophecy. It was his obsession with gaining a son that led to Aemma's death; there's a clear emotional logic to him then choosing the female heir who he should've always favored if he wanted to save Aemma from dying in pregnancy. He says all this pretty plainly in episode 3.
This is what one of the writers (Sara Hess) had to say about it:
"Viserys was deeply in love with his wife Aemma, and never stopped loving her, and doesn't ever stop loving her. And he realizes that his quest for a boy ended up killing her, and he feels horrible about it. And this is his way of making up to her. Like, 'I should have realized [that] you gave me Rhaenyra,' and he says in episode 1 [to Rhaenyra] 'You are the best of your mother.' And she is Aemma's daughter, she is Aemma's child, she's the only thing he has left of Aemma, so he's going to make her heir and he's never going to change his mind because he's never going to stop loving Aemma. Putting Rhaenyra as his heir is his penance for what happened." screenrant.com/house-dragon-rhaenyra-viserys-heir-explained-writer/
None of this addresses any specific guilt for him butchering her; rather, the guilt that the story makes most accessible seems directed toward ALL his attempts to have a son with Aemma despite her history of miscarriages and difficult pregnancies. However, given all this apparent love for Aemma (and it IS apparent, since it's what drives his support for Rhaenyra, which is always apparent and central to the story), I can't help but believe he also regretted what he did to Aemma in her final moments.
Also, I really don't think that the story would have you (or any of its principal characters) believe that Viserys was a good king. It struck me as hollow lip service whenever he was publicly lauded as "Viserys the Peaceful" after his death. I can't remember him ever being called a "masterful keeper of the peace" in a context that would put any weight behind those words. And OF COURSE very few people were going to criticize his reign to his face. But we as an audience see constant strife stem from his inaction. And in moments spent in confidence, his skill as king is questioned by Daemon as well as Alicent (when she tells Rhaenys that she should've been queen). His inadequacy as king is represented symbolically by the iron throne cutting him (the same cuts that become infected and lead to his chronic illness), literally rejecting him as king. Being cut by the iron throne has historically signified unworthy kings time.com/6207159/iron-throne-cut-king-house-of-the-dragon/ That's clearly the narrative that S1 is trying to sell about his rule.
Paddy Considine's words about him: "He’s the sort of man who’s king, but he shouldn’t really be a king. Because he’s not a natural leader. He’s just a good man, and that’s not the quality you need to rule that kingdom"
He inherited his peace from Jaehaerys. But by the end of his reign, he left his house on the verge of civil war. It's not a credit to him that he was the one thing "holding his house together" during his final days when he's the one who let it become so divided in the first place.
However, none of this means he wasn't dedicated to the peace he inherited (if not in his kingdom, then definitely within his own court; he spends half his screentime trying to mediate and diffuse various conflicts, after all). He just wasn't very good at keeping that peace. I'm not sure why you think the trappings of his ineffectual rule (such as being slow to take action) disqualify him from being truly "peaceful"-if that is what you're suggesting. He wanted peace in the sense that he didn't want war-not between the greens and the blacks, and not against the triarchy (initially).
A train of thought I've had slowly wending toward the station that finally arrived while watching this is about Daemon's somewhat erratic behaviour: what if he sees the "darkness" in himself, "the dragon" within, recognizes it as one side of a duality, but his own interest in Targaryen history has led him to believe that it's a familial feature- not a bug- and so he wants to see more of it from the brother and the neice that he loves, family to whom he feels a duty, and when they spurn that- when they act like Dreaming and prophecies aren't just *a* part of what made the dynasty great but the *better* part, he takes that personally. He wants them- as Olenna would advise Dany in GoT- to *be* dragons, at least when they *need* to be, not to disown that part of themselves, because when they disown it he feels like they're rejecting him for a whole version of themselves, of their family, that excludes Targaryens like him. Suppose all of his bad behaviour toward them arises in response- or to preempt- his loved ones making him feel like the embodoment of everything undesirable that might reside in themsleves.
It might also explain him ditching Rhaenyra in the brothel just when she started responding really favourably-- he was indulging that "take me as I am/this is who we are" feeling, being the version of a Targaryen others frown upon, and when she seemed ready to follow him there he saw how it might harm her at that point and the loyalty prevailed over the need for validation.
Really trying to articulate some screwy sort of codependent (?) psychology here-- I think he wants to be validated as a version of "a Targaryen" whose power and lack of constraints he regards as important to their family identity, if not "virtuous," but which others tend to reject, and the conflict arises when he wants that validation (via sharing in its expression) from the family in-group he loves, but their relationships with outsiders requires them to seem to disown those qualities, like a political self-debasement.
Definitely makes sense.
The main flaw of this show, which isn't its fault, is how it plays up the prophecy which we know is a huge anticlimax.
An insightful, intelligent, and comprehensive analysis of the season. I agree with you on so many points. I've subscribed.
Rhaenyra wrote a long letter to Borros Baratheon. Like, a full page. There were probably some other offers besides a request to honor his vows.
Borros Baratheon can't read. She should have known that, of course, considering all Baratheons are like strength 95/100, intellect 3/100... Should have briefed Luke better as well, like, to tell him what was in the letter at least, how far he can go in negotiations and add an instruction "You see Vhagar - you run away".
Anyway, Borros Baratheon calls a maester to read him a letter. A maester is being sent from Oldtown, that happens to be a seat of house Hightower. This maester condenses a page of text into "Remember your vows, asshole!".
Agree to disagree. House of the dragon has far better character moments than the first season of game OF thrones.
definitely has some awesome character moments!
So true. All the characters are WAAAYYY more developed. We spend more time with all of them. Also, excessive exposition, which is what the creator seems to advocate for, is lazy and boring (“show, not tell,” anyone?).
really? felt like season 1 of GOT have alot of subtle character moments without having other characters explains what they are all about. “rhaenyra is such a rebel”. nobody says that about Arya in GoT. they show it. idk. GoT still better. hotd still very welldone tho
@@raemontargaryen3005 I feel like people remember seasons 1-4 of GOT with rosy-eyed glasses a bit. I do agree that Season 1 of GOT was better. But not a LOT better: people forget that episodes 2-4 and most of 5 tended to drag as they set up the world. Lucky thing Syrio Forel's first scene is so iconic with SO MUCH subtext.
Season 4 was also better than S1 Hot D. Bam. 'Nuff said.
But GOT seasons 2 and 3? Excellent stuff but again, people forget that Season 2 dragged here and there until Blackwater ("The Night Lands", for instance, is ok -- but by being just ok it's also much worse than any HoTD episode so far). And Season 3 is held up in a lot of ways by the tentpoles of Danerys freeing the unsullied and the Red Wedding.
I'm saying Hot D season 1 is the 3rd best season ever spent in Westeros, basically.
For me GOT season 1 is much much better including in terms of character moments.
Hey all thank you so so much for watching! Sincerely appreciated.
Just dropping a comment because my point about Aemma’s death has proven to be rather contentious. Thanks to all who have left comments about it - discussion and interpretation is my fav part of any show!
I should’ve mentioned the context that Aemma wasn’t likely to survive either way - my bad - but my take is that no amount of context justifies making any decision without her consent or agency. She screams ‘no, no, no’ as it happens. The episode also highlights that at that time, Viserys was fixated on having a boy - to the point where he was hosting a celebratory tourney before Aemma even began labor. It makes logical sense in this fantasy world but is still a standout wrongful decision - read Paddy’s take below!
None of this is to say that you can’t have your own interpretation or reaction, of course, but I thought I’d expand my thoughts a little in case it helps clarify why I feel the way I do.
Main point: maybe she would’ve made the same decision, maybe she would’ve been fine with Viserys deciding for her, but in my eyes the tragedy is that we’ll never know, since no one asked her.
On Aemma’s forced birth: decider.com/2022/08/22/house-of-the-dragon-aemma-arryn-death/
Paddy Considine on how Aemma’s death also killed Viserys (really beautiful take on the character that I hadn’t appreciated before reading!): collider.com/house-of-the-dragon-paddy-considine-viserys-aemma-death-comments/
Aemma is a Targaryen, lol. She’s his cousin. Her father is an Arryn, but she’s a Targ on mom’s side.😂😂😂
@@alicetoyou448 edited! thank you!
Oh you sweet summer child...
How lovely it must be to be you. To have been born in a world where you feel that even in a fantasy show, based on a historical time period, everyone should be allowed consent in everything, and given a voice.
For millenia, our species has existed in a world of hardship you cannot even conceive of, and this world of fairness and representation that you think exists is an illusion, ephemeral, and fleeting.
Enjoy your summer, sweet child. Winter is coming for you. Winter comes for us all.
@@BertnQuinnsandwich This is a television show made for a modern audience, set in a fantasy world that never existed. Also, medical practitioners from the time period it's arguably based on would have crushed the fetus to save the mother. Opening bodies was seen as abhorrent (in fact, Qyburn in the books was expelled from the Citadel for performing surgery, so GRRM knows this and uses it when it suits the narrative) and the life of a living woman who could conceive again was given higher priority than a child that would likely die regardless.
Please learn to understand why art exists and who it exists for. It is not meant to be a window into some immaculately logical alternate world or historical time. The purpose of art is to reflect, criticize, or suggest changes to the world we live in right now.
Honestly cowardly to add that "out" for Viserys. The same thing happens in the book to another character but used here it's a justification that undermines the vileness of his choice.
I skeptically clicked on this and watched it all in one sitting - Very well done!
I was never a fan of GoT, I was a casual viewer at best, but damn, I’ll say it, HotD got me. Found myself anxiously wanting more, being far more intrigued by their characters, their drama, the dynamics, and though I know where the whole story goes, I want to see their story plays out, specifically. Loved that show, it’s been a little while since I actively engaged with a show to the point where I looked forward to watching it during my day.
This only makes sense to book readers but what Rhaenyra wrote to Borros Baratheon is not known. This going into Maester Conspiracy territory but it is hinted that the Maester may have twisted the words in some way to make it seem harsher than intended.
excellent flag
out of 10 wat odds do u give to the grand maester conspiracy having merit. I think id go for maybe a 6, because of Marwin's claims, but we've had several POV chapters of a couple of maesters with no hint of it. Plus, their actions dont add up. If the maesters are so anti-magic then why do they allow for maesters to forge vayrian steel links and study the higher mysteries. Would'nt it be against their motto? Or is it that THEY wanna control magic, and have a monopoly on it, thats why they dont like the red priests. But this would be against Marwin's claims. Plus his claim that Maester Aemon was exiled by the citadel to the knight's watch is not true, because v know that he left to help his brother Egg get the throne. I think theres a hint of truth to the theory like the grand northern conrpiracy might be a cluster of smaller conpiracies, but i dont think there is a maesterly plan to eliminate magic. Otherwise they would be lobbying their lords to attack the red priests and invade the east.
@@blaubeer8039 hmmm, it's weird tho cause then vd expect Marwin to be the ring leader since he's the archmaester of the higher mysteries. He dosent add up.
@@dhruv9744 well you gotta remember the maesters in GOT have been brought up in a virtually magicless world after all the dragons died. Most of them don’t believe and the few who do know that magic is about dead anyway since none of the sorcerers can actually do anything anymore. I’d say they keep the valyrian steel link as just a tradition but even then they’ll all discouraged from it and the process to get it is mocked. it’s almost like they’re keeping it to make a point, that magic isn’t real, it’s just a farce, here try to light this candle and see for yourself. It’s part of the propaganda.
It wouldn’t make much sense for them to want war in essos, they’re based in westeros and nothing about the rhllorists affect them in any way, they’re mostly just religious and not magical anyway. We only know Melisandre is a sorceress but she’s obviously not even human and the other red priests were only able to do magic when dany brought back dragons. I don’t know if they were completely anti magic but they were definitely at least anti dragon. dragons are basically nuclear weapons you can’t blame them for wanting them eradicated. it just so happens that magic is also tied to dragons so they killed two birds with one stone
@@morighani yeah true, v also need to remember that they are anti magic but not anti Gods, because they do worship the seven gods. The reason I thought they would be against Rllohor is because of the waves of invasion that happen to Westeros. The first men, then the andals and then even the rhoynar ethinic flourishing. But ig it would be more under the interests of the faith of the seven to go against Rllohor. The Maesters might be divided into factions just like everyone other org in GRRM's universe, and v see some evidence of this, with how Marwin seems to be completely against the ruling archmaesters at the time. V will probably learn more with Sam's chapters in Winds, and see the world through Sarella(Alleras) and Jaquen H'gar(Pate). Us Euron is coming there too next book when he gets to old town.
That wedding murder idiocy.. I have no idea why they made it like that in show. In books Cole kills him on a tourney ground, melee weapons. In single combat.
But overall, I love HotD
I really dont think Viserys was ever considered as a "good king" but rather I think he is supposed to be understood as a "lazy king" or a king who just wanted comfort at all costs. That's why he's so easily manipulated by the Greens and also why he is so attached to Rhaenyra which plays out a really heartwrecking image of Viserys being only a symbol of what being king means. He is cruel yet in constant suffering throughout the show which is really what all rulers of westeros come down to at the end. I also wanted to point out how this show masterfully paints dragons and implements them. Thrones really cannot compete to the level of nuance dragons in this show represent. Dragons in this show manage to symbolize their riders personas, cruelty, weapons of natures, gods, intentions of mankind, and much more.
In the books he was never considered a 'good king' but book viserys and show viserys aren't remotely the same character. In the book he becomes an immensely fat and somewhat jovial drunk because all he wants to do is avoid issues that are boiling up under the surface. Of course the fact they have declining health for very different reasons is a superficial change, but the core difference between them is in the show he is doing what he can to keep the kingdom out of conflicts both within and without, but he's caught between the 2 most powerful factions that he knows are both trying to undermine him, and he has essentially no power base of his own that he can rely on. It's much less him being lazy and afraid of dealing with the issues as it is these factions ripping up his attempts to resolve conflicts and railroading him into a situation he either has shed the blood of his daughters faction (blacks) or the faction that is pushing his son (greens). People seem to think it's a sign of weakness that he isn't willing to choose between sides that BOTH CONTAIN HIS CHILDREN. His hands are tied by the fact that he doesn't want to harm of any more of his family (still haunted by ordering the death of his wife) and can do nothing by the end but plead for peace as a man who loves them, as all the power he has as king haven't been enough.
The viserys part- THANK YOU
You’re comparing 4 seasons worth of Tywin Lannister to Viserys’ one season.
Alicent’s sort of unhinged behavior was due to her feelings of self imposed isolation and paranoia thanks to her father’s Otto parting warning to her. For 10 years she had nobody whom she felt that she could confide or have some form of companionship with. Just her father’s warning while being forced to have pointless children. After six years of her father being back and finding religion, helped her immensely.
Viserys did keep the peace within the Seven Kingdoms and with the rest of the world. The Stepstones were a special issue since they weren’t part of Westeros and whom they were fighting seemed like pirates but could’ve been proxies for the Triarchy. So Viserys didn’t want to risk war by getting directly involved.
He was a relatively successful king during his reign, except when it came to his personally life. It was his choice to marry Alicent, to keep Otto as his hand, alienate his brother and name Rhaerya his heir which undid all of his previous efforts plus some, which made him a bad king. The point of the first season was to underline that.
I am with you on one issue, Viserys’ choice to sacrifice his wife for a son. In the books, this was done during the reign of King Jaehaerys by Lord Baratheon with one of his wive’s. They likely moved it to Viserys because of the real world modern context.
I have to disagree with the writing in comparison to Game of Thrones. Aside from a few episodes throughout, GoT felt kinda bland. The books were by far better. The only thing that I really liked about the show was the fandom community.
House of the Dragons has done far better so far. I get you with the time jumps and the not taking time to really get into the characters. But the point of this season is only to set the stage for the Dance, the what led to the Targaryen civil war.
And it must be said that the accounts given in the book shouldn’t be taken gospel truth. Just the general events matter, specific accounts need collaboration.
14:58:-15:01 the Iron Bank has nothing to do with the Triarchy (which is founded in the Daughters: Myr, Tyrosh and Lys, which eventually does have a bank)
In the books Viserys' state before he dies was due to the event with Emma. He got fat, depressed, and sick from the guilt he felt for his choice to let her die for the son he didn't get. He wasn't a good king, he was neutral and indecisive so he never pissed anyone off. He just checked out after his wife dies. In the show they make the cause an unknown sickness...Which it would have made the character more filled out if they stuck to the book narrative. Same with Allicent and Rhaenrya
In the show is pretty clear that the main reason he's so stubborn with Rhaenyra being his heir is because of Aemma, that's why they showed us the traumatic death she had in ep 1, because it defined Viserys until his death. In episode 6 we see him kissing Aemma's ring after Rhaneyra leaves for Dragonstone, in ep. 7 he tells Daemon something about how the daughters tend to look like their mothers, in his last breath we see him calling for her, and there are probably more examples.
You should watch paddy's interview telling about the core of viserys emotional arc and also his social media post, highlighting the very criticism you pointing out here. he took upon himself to emphasized his journey during the season is HIS DEEPEST REGRET on his action toward aemma. yes it wasn't scripted but the showrunner let him made that decision. but he did express it once in eps 3 when talking about dragon dream to alicent.
he refuse to seek cure of his illness because he thought he deserve it, for what he did to his first wife, although he didn't outright decline the treatment. and his steadfast support for rhaenyra and his decision to make her his heir also came from the same guilt.
He faltered once in episode 3 about rhaenyra but after that he never look back. and during his last breath he seem have premonition that his choice to choose rhaenyra as his heir is the right one, maybe he finally got the "dream" he always seeking before, and his word "my love" he uttered before dead is for aemma. he plagued by his guilt.
It amazes me how people draw shallow parallels between characters, usually good to good and evil to evil. Viserys is NOT Ned Stark, if anybody is Ned Stark it is Vaemond
One think should be said regarding Viserys. You talked about the inhuman choice he man in EP. 1, but also he doesn't forgive himself. During all the show Viserys is never concerned about his health. This is because he thinks he deserves it.
17:10 Aemma is of house Arryn but is still half Targaryen/Valyrian
It might be the due to my watching weekly recaps and discussions of episodes, but I don't recall any character in the show calling Viserys a "good" king. His epithet was "the peaceful" meaning he went out of his way to avoid conflict, which viewers can see is a problem as early as episode 1. There were only two instances the whole season where he put his foot down and asserted needed authority: when he banished Daemon to Dragonstone at the end if episode 1 and when he reaffirmed Rhaenera as heir and her sons as legitimate in episode 8. Those are the only times we see him act in a forceful manner and like a "good" king. To the counterpoint, we get all kids of signs throughout the season that he shouldn't be king: him getting cut by the Iron Throne and then being too stubborn to amputate the infected limb allowing disease to rot him from the inside, just like his other inaction and lack of concentration is rotting the 7 kingdoms from the inside. We also see it with the hunt with Viserys not killing the stag with one blow like he should have and Rhaenera actually seeing the white one.
So I don't hear other viewers nor even characters in the show calling him a good king, when clearly he wasn't, especially since we don't see him teaching Rhaenera how to rule, partially due to the time jumps, but their interactions together after naming her his heir don't show us her progression as a leader, just her trying to shirk her responsibilities.
First time seeing your channel and your videos are excellent. You will be at 100K subs in no time, but I will be number 441
honored thank you!
woah, you deserve more subs, great vid!
I like your analysis. Very well thought out. Sub’d.
Lucerys death highlighted one main point (IMO): that the dragon riders are not in control. And I think Aemonds look of horror afterwards was due more to the realization that he did not have control of his dragon (Luke’s dragon as well as seen when Arrax let loose with fire and hit Vhagar in the face) as opposed to killing his own kin (even though it was not planned)
Hey thank you!! I agree - also probably rattled bc he realized he just broke the tension + catalyzed something huge
Okay i'm about halfway through but i gotta comment. I think you're doing a great job of breaking down what could have been better about hotdog (im calling it hotdog now)
As a counterpoint to one thing, I think maybe they meant to communicate that daemon killing vaemond influenced aemond to go after luce again as an adult? But i do think that it reads as inconsistent. He's trying to be kingly and cosplay daemon but ultimately can't bc he is a petulant child. Or at least i think thats what they're going for??
The fact that you dont see love in between Rhaenyra and Alicent is just over me haha have we seen the same show? Cause it's evident that they loved each other, then they came to grow distant due to their live circumstances and then when Alicent is confronted with choosing between her friend and her son, she choses her son influenced by twhat's going on and those around her but wants Rhaenyra to accept the terms and let things be for her friend's own good.
Also the show does a good job at "Cleaning" the bad of both sides from the book.
Rhaenyra is suppose to become also quite crazy in her derailment to get to the throne and that is canon and would be seen in season 2 which will make a lot of us, see the blacks on a darker light. Events like "Blood and Cheese" will happened connected to the death of lucerys. Rhaenyra has to become a dislikable character by the end of the show. But I am sure the show will find a way not to do that.
missed in the first part
@@juliobernal3606 Sorry?
was just reading that they cut a few scenes that I think would've built the Rhaenyra/Alicent narrative more clearly! There's definitely something interesting there, I just wish it came across more comprehensively.
@@Alejojojo6 she wanted peace for the realm not because of her friend
@@jrrtalkin I think it's actually good that season 2 hasn't been written yet. It gives the writers time to read and watch all the feedback they're getting and hopefully make better choices in season 2 as well as address any plotholes that was pointed out. We need to also consider that once the story leaves the writers' room they have no control of it's visual representation. They can't demand the director do things a certain way or demand things are filmed in a certain way or that the actors enact the scene in a specific way instead or even that the editors to not cut out certain scenes. It's a team effort. It's unfortunate that if just one part of that team drops the ball the more public reps of that team get the heat.
Verysias is not portrayed to be a good king, but rather a weak king. Like many people in real life, they attempt to redefine their life, upon death. Vesryias is no different. I believe the op is applying a black or white framing in Vesryias, rather then accepting the character as it comes. We can personally have a judgment towards a character, and balance the characters actions and intensions as they may. Vesryias is a character layered in complexity, and it is left to the personal viewer to judge him.
Alicent refusing the marriage offer is perfectly reasonable. All it did was out Helaena in danger and herself and family under rhaenyra thumb
"They never got to be who they are because of what they are."- So, I'm quoting you on that. Don't know where and when, but I will.
Best RUclipsr name I’ve ever seen. Subbed instantly lmao
Aemma gave the clue when she said to Rhaenyra,
"Childbirth is our battlefield"
Westeros is a brutal, dangerous environment for female as well as male aristos.
Ryan Condal has considerably exaggerated the danger of bearing children in The Middle Ages to emphasize this point.
Coming back to this, I think there's some other flaws with some of the criticisms in this video:
I concede the point about Daemon in the Stepstones. The caves thing is probably no big deal -- those are likely tunnels rather than caves and they just call them 'caves' -- I wouldn't be surprised if a place like that has been dug out and fortified over the past hundreds of years. But yeah, everyone coming out to get Daemon was kinda dumb.
But sending Lucerys is NOT a dumb move. I don't think it needs to be said that it should be established that messengers "should never ever be harmed". That's like kinda expected in the real world already; you'd sort of need to establish the opposite. Also, sending someone as important as Lucerys is itself a mark of diplomacy: your support is so important I'm sending my son. Yes, it is true she sends her son empty-handed, but Rhaenerya doesn't know the Greens have sent Aemond with a marriage pact proposal to the Baratheons. For all they know they needed him to wed a Lannister. Probably they'd figure Lord Boros might propose a counter-offer. Seems to me that their mistake was not pre-supposing Lord Boros would be as peevish as he turned out to be.
Plus, do you KNOW Rhaeneyra wrote something so simple in that note to Lord Boros? Did we get to see what was on it first? Remember that Lord Boros didn't read that himself: a Maester TRANSLATED it for him.
Maester conspiracy? Think about it.
ya, totally fair commentary. thank you!
@@jrrtalkin Absolutely no problem. Your video is wonderful: I just tend to concentrate on what I found wrong with things in general.
As someone who read the book way before the show was announced, I loved this show. I can't wait for season 2.
Have you written anything? This analysis was so good I'd love to check it out.
I like most missable details on first watch. It makes the show rewatchable.
45:25 in response to when Daemon acts bad, I think he's prone to outbursts in moments of insecurity. This would explain why Viserys offering to send help drives him to assault the messenger.
It would explain why he only decided to finish off his wife after she teased his impotency. He also kinda lashed out at Viserys asking if he needs anything. Just my interpretation. But either way great video, this review was made with care
finally, someone with sanity. I heard many people compare this to GOT (Season 1-4) and i was like "Are you serious? Do you even watch GOT?"
This video is amazing, have to say I agree more with you than people in comments. It is an excellent show but 100% could be improved, especially scenes such as Aemma's death and how the audience forgave the kings so quickly for this. Your perspective is so fresh so thank you, I can see you're quite new to RUclips so please keep making videos.
Great video. I don't agree with some of your opinions but you explain your thoughts very clearly. You'll be an awesome addition to the ASOIAF 🐉🐲 community.
There's hard truths in this that I appreciate getting a chance to hear. A lot of illogical decisions, Rhaenyra's retreat to Dragonstone and so on, even feel better if you frame the show as dramatized history, a faithful adaptation of a history book with all the inevitability that implies. Others don't; it hurts a bit to see Alicent's character torn into like this, as I was really grabbing onto her as the show's closest thing to an actual GoT character, in contrast to everyone else who mostly embody one or two simple archetypes. And I think she easily COULD be as complex as Cersei or Catelyn if, as you say, the show were more willing to let her do terrible and selfish things for reasons we understand and feel, instead of trying to justify her actions as well-meaning but based in some misunderstanding. The sheer number of "this pivotal moment turned out to be an accident" twists kneecaps character agency as well in a way that doesn't feel satisfying. In the end I think the decision to try and Both Sides the Greens and the Blacks (something like 90% of audience polls support Rhaenyra anyway) did a lot of harm to character development, which aside from costuming, set design, blocking, music etc. is the one thing this first season really had to sell itself with.
thank you! well said. Definitely potential for Alicent's character to grow into compelling complexity. I hope so!
I disagree a bit. I found Alicent's development rather good. Every episode we see just a bit more of that push into a cold, ruthless Queen. We didn't get this kind of character build up for Cersei at all. GOT started with her personality already at a certain point of development. We get a few crumbs here and there of what made her into who she was but none of this character study leading up to that point.
@@livelovelife32 All good points. I admit I have a pro-Cersei bias because I'm fascinated by the book character's relationship with her gender and I sometimes conflate that with Lena Headey's captivating performance. I really enjoy Olivia's performance as well and I think there's a lot to say about Alicent as a character whose self-image as a "rule follower" is the only thing standing in the way of her inevitable mental/emotional breakdown. But I also agree with the video that the effort to humanize her as a co-lead sometimes went too far this season.
@@ultratankie I think really a lot of it stems from a lack of time. They really needed more episodes. Everything seems a little rushed. I love Eve Best but most of her Character development can be done next season. They shoe horned her in there just because.
@@vanessalore9942 I think they needed at least 12 episodes. But Alicents change from episode 5 to 6 was too jarring. That's the problem with massive time jumps. Also the show was then inconsistent with their portrayal of the character because by the end of episode 8 and majority of episode 9 they clearly want to make her more of a sympathetic victim, but she ends up looking a bit silly and very hypocritical. So like the lady who made the vid said, not even an interesting character you love to hate, just an annoying, self righteous, hypocritical and indecisive sucka.
love your analysis, you make some very interesting points! my most major gripes with the writing really started from around the ending of episode 5, as well, and your video has helped articulate some of the decisions I disliked about it!
although I will say that I strongly disagree that it's illogical of Alicent's character to reject the betrothal between Jace and Helaena, at least when working under the assumption that her driving motivation is protecting her children/family. I can see the scenario in which she accepts going south, personally.
When it comes to the Valyrian births and the impact that it's meant to have with them being so tough on the women, likely circles back to the fact that the Targaryens are full of incest. The only women seen giving birth are of Targaryen blood, Aemma was a cousin to Viserys hence her Targaryen features. There's also the added punch of the relationship between husband and wife, though this call back mainly centers around Aemma's death in episode one. We see both Viserys, who started this trend, and Daemon have to make this choice on who'd they save, mother or child. The main idea likely being, is the sacrifice of a wife worth the gain of receiving an heir? When faced with this issue Viserys opts to go through with it only to end up losing both, a decision that he regrets for the rest of his life. While with Daemon, knowing of his brother's decision, refuses it both with Laena and Rhaenyra. When it comes to the Valyrian women in the situation, namely Laena and Rhaenyra, it goes to challenge that idea of their use as women. Are they there to simply dispense heirs or are they more than a simple incubator? This mini arc is seen with both Laena and Rhaenyra, albeit in different ways.
For Rhaenyra, she rejects the idea of that being all she's worth, to be seen as more than just a woman who is to fulfill this duty. However, after being named heir, being made more than a simple woman, she accepts being a mother as not her only station but rather just a part of who she is. She adores her children and because of her acceptance she goes onto basically be a baby making machine.
In Laena's case this arc goes in reverse. Early on when she was still a child, she was shown to have accepted her station as woman, however when things in birthing room get too tough and after hearing her husband be questioned about essentially doing to her what happened to Aemma, she flat out rejects it. She sees herself as more than a simple incubator, she is after all a person and a dragon rider; something that is integral to her character. And so, instead of dying the birthing maiden's death she opts to dye one befitting of a dragon rider, in one last effort to show she's more than what the men in her world see her as, disregarding Daemon's calls to her.
The importance of the birthing scenes mainly highlights the defects of Valyrian inbreeding and how the complications of that form of birth has an effect on the men and the women. It's honestly quite fascinating. And the reason why Alicent's births are never shown is simply because she's not inbred as the Targaryen men and women are. And I guess one could argue that Helaena's birth weren't shown either because her children aren't as inbred as the others, though I recognize that as a weak argument. I hope this made sense and thank you if you stuck around till end.
I really enjoyed this interpretation! love the inverse arcs of Laena and Rhaenyra idea.
Daemon choking rhaenyra had me so confused, because I thought that he was dangerous, cruel, but also that he was the ally you needed and that he was all about HIS family. He also could have just ignored rhaenyra and killed her then husband instead of faking his death, but he didn't because she asked him too (at least i interpreted it that way). So ... noone is save from him exept for his family. E10 undermined this a little ...
A lot of interesting observations. In the end I couldn’t tell whether you were praising the show or not. And maybe that was the point. I do think that some of your criticisms had real merit, but I also felt that you were too harsh on the storytelling until your summary, where you appear to express real enjoyment of House of the Dragon and look forward to more of it. But I do admit to being someone who read Fire and Blood when it was initially released with enjoyment and am impressed with how they have brought it to the visual medium.
Most comprehensive and realistic look I've come across. As much as I want to celebrate a return to Westeros without digging too deep into why it seemed so easy for me to forget, this summary helped me contextualize feelings towards what I loved about this season, but more importantly, shed light on the aspects I undoubtedly had initial issues with, but likely chose to overlook in fear of discovering my blissful ignorance at a new high. Regardless, I love this show and you did a wonderful job showing a balanced overview of all it has to offer. Look forward to future videos.
Yea very detailed breakdown of all the pros and cons
I agree with you on so many points.Great video
This is a very good breakdown. Really went in depth with everything wrong with the format they used for this show, but also highlighting a lot of the positives. Also good compare and contrast with game of thrones.
I love much of you general comparison with GOT or the lack there of, when people GOT fans asked me if they should watch this show I said always that it reminded me to season 5 of GOT that you have a few character moments and some actions scenes but also that there are some moments that don't make sense like the Criston Cole scene it was unnecessary to break immersion for scene that is not really in the book.
It's really nice to have a show that's just for adults. In that sense GOTs scratches the same itch Mad Men did for me.
Great commentary 🙌👍
I think that the actor who played Viserys said that the motivation that he constructed for him was that he felt so guilty over Aemma that he refused any treatment for his illness.
Great analysis! I don't agree with everything, especially most of the characters' parts, but you do make a lot of interesting points, thanks for the work. Also, I don't think is just that the writers don't want us to pick a side, but instead, this is the nature of the story they're telling. Remember in GOT the conversation Shireen had with Stannis about this piece of the story, she emphasizes the horrors both parties committed in order to win and that she wouldn't have chosen any side because of it.
its funny every single scene with larys they have to focus on his club foot for a few frames
Why did you delete your video on season 2? It was a great video.
See community tab! I’m working on it :(
@@jrrtalkinOh, I hope we will see it back up. It shows how much effort you put into it.
Totally disagree on the characterization. I love that neither side is wrong or right. Both have a "reason" to want their side to win, some are good and some are bad. The characters feel like real people that make mistakes and the story feels a lot more tragic for it. Most of them were just born into their side so they have no real choice on the matter. And I'm only talking about the people in this conflict that have power. Every other person is considered less by them and they're just a pawn to achieve whatever they want. The only one that seems to care even a little bit is Rheanyra because everyone else was really happy to start a war that is going to kill millions.
Tbf, history is replete with incidents of wars lost because of stupid decisions, either borne of hubris or a simple inability to out think their opponent, so personally, this scene wasn't completely baseless. And the fight with the Crabfeeder only looks stupid to us (well, to some lol) because of the benefit of hindsight and the lens of modern thinking. Buuuuut if you parse the scene carefully, the Crabfeeder's did suspect a trap as you see him cautiously scouring the sky to see if beasts were flying about. Imagine if you were in his shoes for a sec and a dragon-less Daemon, someone who's the equivalent of a 5-star general btw, appears before you seemingly alone, kneeling and offering his sword in surrender, wouldn't you be tempted to capture him on sight? Also, Crabby didn't send out his entire army, just a squad. Only when Daemon made clear his plan did men rush out of caves. And the oxygen thing you mentioned, I'm sure they chose their caves well, with exits and ventilation in mind, among other things. A good commander would and by all accounts, ol' Crabby was one. He just made a fatal mistake, something as mentioned has precedence. You make it sound like from the onset they threw caution to the wind for plot convenience’s sake, which to me isn't the case at all, or rather, still a convenience but on a different aspect: Daemon turning into some comic book superhuman and going through the opposing forces like the proverbial knife through butter (taking a few arrow shots here and there to temper that fact. Really, show? lol). Still, good points all around. Check out Joe the Magician's take on the astounding visual storytelling tools the show employs to foreshadow things, specifically Larys Strong: ruclips.net/video/T4WdhncBNrA/видео.html
yea appreciated, I hear that. thanks for the rec!
I just found your channel. Your explanations are extremely helpful !
Good lord you can talk so well lol. Love this. I agree with most of what you said. And it really helps SOOOO MUCH to read fire and blood, then rewatch. You notice 50% more.
Just a correction. In episode 1 Viserys didn't kill Aemma. He made a choice between her dying or her AND the baby dying. He made the choice most mothers would want their husbands to make. Unfortunately, that choice still didn't save the child. Viserys has many faults. He should've included her in the decision for certain, and not doing so was an ***hole move but it's important to distinguish that Aemma was going to die regardless of his choice and her pain likely ended sooner as well.
Fair enough, I should've been more clear that things weren't looking good for her either way. It was her lack of consent or knowledge that I found wrongful though, even if she would've made the same decision herself.
@@jrrtalkin I agree with that 100% and Viserys wasn't a good King. He was also not a great person I think he was as gray as Daemon only in different ways.
@@jrrtalkin I dropped out of school in tenth grade to build homes with the other men in my family so I can't put my thoughts into words like you but yeah I agree with you it doesn't feel in my gut like something he would of done, whatever time period it is people are people we all love our family and want the best for them unless you just don't care about no one else's pain but your own which everything we saw from him accept that shows otherwise so no I don't see him making that choice without her, who wants that decision solely on their shoulders. I could see him saving her and losing the baby and her hating him for making that choice but he rather her be alive and hate him. So in my humble opinion his choice doesn't fit him anything but a long conversation with her and her urging him to make that choice and him still hating himself for it makes sense to me unless hes a straight up villain. You did a great job with this thank you for it.
I do think this was murder. I believe the whole point of the directors decision was to start the show with a controversial and violent scene. Remember this isn’t the medieval world in our universe, the show creators had a choice to define the culture here. In fact, HOD is much closer in language and style to our modern world, because of this the caesarean without consent felt particularly shocking following Roe vs Wade and the growing loss of womens reproductive rights globally. For this reason I found my toes curling at this scene. She screams no and it is clear she has no understanding around what is happening. By not explaining what was happening and by making the decision to cut his wife open without telling her, it becomes murder. She died of her wounds before she died in childbirth. The decision on how to die was hers to make not his and he only made it to secure a male heir.
@@oliverblewett5021 interesting pov and one I agree with. Consent is everything. Though some will argue that since when Leana learnt about the needed caesarean, she went and kill both herself and the baby and that would explain why the woman shouldn't be given the choice or even told. Don't agree with this pov at all but it's important in an argument to know all the sides in it. There ARE people who believe that once a woman becomes pregnant she has forfeited her right to consent if the child's life is in danger no matter what stage the baby may be at. That if she's dying then she has no right to say no in how the baby is retrieved.
Love your insight but you are soooo wrong about vicerys. He didnt choose the child over aemma. They were both going to die, but there was a chance to save the baby. She was going to die regardless.
totally heard! I think even if she were definitely going to die either way she deserves agency in the decision.
@@jrrtalkin My gripe was, they couldn’t like OD her on milk of the poppy?! Then at least she would be knocked out beforehand and wouldn’t know. It would be more of a kindness for her to NOT know, imo. I see your point though, in that she should have had the choice to die giving birth, or die getting cut open. I personally thought Vicerys was a good man and a good king. Jmo
I don't think the show is trying to tell us that the characters are actually good rulers or fit for rule. They caused a war that decimated their family and burned the seven kingdoms. It is not different families fighting for primacy it is two branches of the same family wanting to take the throne for their own side at all cost
Really great analysis, thanks 💜.
P.S. I’m great to have discovered this channel, I’m definitely subscribing
I love Rhaenrya, seems obvious that she’s the POV hero - I don’t see the show as balanced bw red and greens. Maybe it depends on the values of the viewer?
She ain’t no hero. Just wait.
@@lustrazor44 you book fans keep saying that, but the tv show looks like it’s going in a more grey and nuanced direction..
as a non book reader i will say i didnt think leana dying was weid, i just assumed she was a minor character, like many who died in season 1 of got
I actually agree some of your points. I liked Ep 10, but a lot of it made no sense to me. Rhaenys hesitating when the fate of her granddaughters lies in the balance. She never cared for the boys, so that bit of dialogue seemed out of place. All of her actions seems to be based on that predicate because they wanted to give her more to do. Corlys is gone for 6 years, and it’s crickets on social media.
All of this is overshadowed because of the choking. The fact that he put the crown her head and kneeled. Ignored. The whole episode is overshadowed.
Rhaenerya being cautious was fine because book Rhaenerya is a crazy person. Making Daemon war crazy does not. Not only is it the total reverse of what’s in the book, but also she begged him to marry her so he could help.
As you said, they’ve been reasonably balanced on his characterisation. He must be a difficult character to write. Until this episode. You described those really well so I don’t need to repeat those here. They need to be careful. They ruin Daemon like they did Tyrion, they’re show is done
For the last time.
Helaena wedding Jace wouldn't have stopped the war because it's Aegon's claim that's the danger to Rhaenyra, not Helaena's!
Honestly how the writing has been handled in the prequel makes me excited for the sequel (there’s a Jon snow show in the works)
45:20 The choking is a conflict. His lowest moments are when his brother pities him, and he generally wants to be trusted by him. Then the day of his brother's death, his wife reveals Viserys never trusted him enough to pass the prophecy, a prophecy that defines the history of the bloodline he cares so much about, and not only that but Rhaenyra is acting more like his brother than him (when what originally attracted him to her was their similarity). I think the break is justified, one way or another one of his convictions was going to be violated there and putting them into conflict showed us his true nature - Daemon will always use violence as his preferred resort.
"My brother is a slave to his own prophecy, anything to make his feckless reign a bit of purpose. Dreams didn't make us kings. Dragons did." That was what he said while choking his wife, literally spitting on the song of ice and fire prophecy, his brother, his reign. How you came to the conclusion of Daemon just went mad because his wife reveals Viserys never trusted him enough to pass the prophecy, a prophecy that defines the history of the bloodline he cares so much about is literally beyond me.
@@indigard2747 well after he said that rhyerna finds out he never knew. The reason he went mad was because all his life, he just wanted viserys to trust him, but when he finds out about the prophecy, he realizes he never would’ve obtained that trust and acknowledgment from viserys. So he resorts to violence and insults but knows there’s no point and meaningless as viserys is gone and he knows that. In the last episode, the beach where daemon breaks down was originally for when he finds out the prophecy and realizing viserys never acknowledged or trusted him
Amazing analysis! Not saying I agree on each and every point - honestly, there are more where I don't - but nevertheless perfectly articulated and balanced!
Probably won't be the first one with this comment or similar, but I believe that it was exactly the regret over Aemma's death that feeds Viserys' naming Rhaenyra heir and sticking to it throughout. It's as if he needed her struggles and death not to be in vain.
There are things that I agree and things I disagree with. Some of the plot "weird" things are actually nonsense stuff from the book itself. The idea of sending Lucerys for example is on the books stated the same way so there was little room on that. Same goes for Aemond challenging Lucerys. In the book it does happen as well (except one of the Baratheon women, when Aemond is stopped to do anything under Boros roof fuels Aemond to go after him otherwise he will be seen as a coward). Etc etc...
Overall a great analysis but Its apparent that you didnt read the story so that some plots just scaped the action of the showrunners cause they needed to happen in the same way no matter how "dumb" logically they may seem. I think the main flaws here were not explaining through dialogue what happened to cole (maybe we get to that in further seasons) and Rhaenys dumb show up. Other than that I think it works fine.
hey thanks for all your thoughts!
I agree that George will write things that don’t make sense. But wasn’t Rhaenerya initially very reluctant to send the boys? I’m sorry I don’t remember, but someone convinced her based on need and no one else being able to do it. Regardless, they didn’t spend the time here to make that a little tighter. I’m not really criticising. I know they had to pick and choose in the limited time they have
She has read the book. She said so in the video and none of the points you raised were even related to any of the points discussed. Aemond intentionally killed Luc in the books. The video simply states that it was stupid to send Luc both in Book and show. The bad thing is that the show is turning some bad things the character did in the book as accidents just so the conflict is grey unlike the books where Cole, Allicent and Aemmon acts of villainy are by choice rather than accidents and misunderstandings. allicent's being presented as unwilling to steal the throne for her son presented as her misunderstanding her husbands last words etc
HOTD vs GOT, my bet is on HOTD. But if it's HOTD vs GOTD-8?, then my bet is on GOT-8. I wish they re-did season 8 of GOT first before tackling HOTD. You know GOT would've been my favourite series of all time, but because of season 8, that throne still belongs to Breaking Bad IMO.
Your analysis reminds me of a quote from the show. "And what are you doing other than being Master of Complaints"
Enjoyed this quite a bit, nicely done 🤝
I hate how Cristen Cole is being perceived as an incel. He was a dornishman competing with royals in tournaments. He's always been an underdog his whole life. He earned his way to the kingsgurad. One thing many people seem to forget is that he and rhenerya are in completely different levels of power. Not doing as the princess says can end up in his death. Him sleeping with Rhearya is the same as when Alicent sleeps with Viserys. They're both sexually assaulted. Unless of course people brush it off intentionally and ignorantly using the, "He had an erection hence it wasn't rape" bs logic. Then, after forcing him to break his oath, when he has nothing to his name but rhenerya, she tells him to his face that she only wants this knight who spent his whole life working hard to get to his position, to be her play thing. No wonder he was mad and killed jeoffry. Imagine being told that all your accomplishments amount to nothing but a whore, and then when the man is at deaths door (keep in mind that the fact that he slept with the princess can get him tortured and killed brutally) this Jeffrey guy comes and taunts him. No wonder he snapped. After the timjump, he becomes, in a way, a father figure to alicents kids since viserys is such a deadbeat. It makes sense why him and alicent got together. They're both victims of far more powerful people. Calling Cole an Intel practically ignores all the development his character got and only ties him with rhenerya as if he isn't a character with his own history and choices. This video actively ignores so much of the show that it's annoying. From Alicent, to Aemond, to Criston, among others, it's almost like she doesn't like the "less is more" approach and wanted things to be on the nose instead.
Considering the fact that Fire and Blood was written by masters, Visares was probably written as a great king because (as we saw hints of at the end)he was able to be controlled by them both through his wife and the masters that “tended” to his health. Viraris was in reality a weak king which is exactly what we saw.
I agree with a lot of these points, but I think Rhaenyra was always stablished as a bad diplomat, Alicent is right, she just knows she's the heir and does nothing to be in good graces with anyone at court bc the king already said she's the next queen. Unlike Alicent, who's been kind of trained to be diplomatic and knows how to keep people at her side, I don't think Rheanyra would ever show her feet to anyone even if it made her queen immediately lol. And I never saw Viserys as a good king, he's very neglectful and always seeks entertainement and keeping the people happy with feasts and tournaments, he never takes any crucial decision and is lazy at best at his job as king, I kinda hated him a little bit bc of how he never seemed to care about what was important for the realm, he only cared about what felt good to him. The last thing he did as king could be seen good from a father's perspective, but it's disastrous as a political move, his grandsons are bastards, there is no denying it, in protecting his daughter he's tearing court apart and providing all of the fuel for the civil war. I think the only reason they say he was a good king was bc nothing happened, literally nothing happened, no decision making, no changes, no nothing, only a woman as an heir and he never even enforced it as such. Like putting Rhaenyra in forced diplomacy lessons or something. He tried to be a good dad, but his soft hand did more wrong than good, his love for his family is his only redeeming quality in a very useless king tbh.
I agree that the exposition in S1 is very light and I think that's an unfortunate, inevitable consequence of HotD's precarious position after both the reception to GoT's ending and the recent WBD merger (HBO wouldn't even GREENLIGHT a second season until they saw the pilot's viewership numbers). This means the Dance of Dragons, the central point of the show, MUST begin after Episode 10 and all key players must be introduced and set up before that finale. It's like trying to do a World War 1 TV series without addressing the 50 years of tensions, colonialism, and technological developments, or nobody would understand why shooting an Archduke lead to millions of men digging trenches and throwing themselves in front of machine guns. So you essentially need to pack decades of history into 10 episodes and consequently there will be skipped characters that are dead before the Dance begins.
I'm not sure I agree. GoT didn't need to set up the entire socio-political and geographical layout of Westeros in order to get the story going. An ingenious intro gave the viewer a rough idea of where all the scenes were taking place and well constructed dialogue and scenes slowly gave us various perspectives on events that went before the narrative.
It's like saying GoT NEEDED to start with the entire reign of Aerys the Mad and Robert's Rebellion to get the viewer situated.
The only thing I would disagree on is that Daemon in the feast was shown to be not at all above petty bullying when he toasted to the "Strongs" I dont see what happened as out of character. It doesnt matter how big your dragon is if you are still insecure enough to take being served a pig by pure conicidence at a feast as insult.
As the show progressed, I keep thinking about how the characters actions and choices don't always add up. I think the writers are squeezing in as much nuance to the characters as they can, but since the story is set in stone, the nuances they added in some scenes may look too forced and don't match their future choices. Fortunately, they have really good actors. Another thing is that a lot of the development in character that could have explained the changes happened within the time skip.
I think you are one of the few who pointed out how many inconsistencies there are to the characterizations. People gush a lot about how good this show is (totally true) but we sometimes overlook certain writing issues because of how enjoyable and beyond expectations this show has been.
The thing I really love about hotd, is how it's funny when it intends to be serious.
Random doubt: Does Mysaria know Valaryian? I remember she got to know what Daemon was saying to Rhanerya about him wanting a child at Dragonstone.
Yes she does she’s originally from Lys which was a Valyrian colony
@@daemontarg000 I see, so varys might also know valaryian. Thank you for clearing me doubt :)
@@alvisaverciel9428 in the books Varys is super sketchy, there are many theories that he's from a bastard Targaryen branch.
@@alvisaverciel9428 Yeahhhh, If the mummer's blackfyre dragon theory is ryt then he might possibly be a blackfyre himself. Regardless, theres a high possibility that he speaks high valyrian, or atleast one of the derivative dialects in the free cities.
I felt like vacerys showed regret for his decision in episode one many times , Great video though I appreciate your takes
Yes, he pretty much paid for it with an agonising death.
Even though I disagree with most things you said, I do appreciate you pointing out the flaws in HotD. As someone who quite enjoyed the latter seasons of GoT, it was a bit bizarre seeing people almost blindly praise HotD despite it having the same problems that those same people used as excuses to tare into the latter seasons of Thrones. I personally didn't mind these problems in either Thrones or HotD (if I even consider them problems) but I still felt like someone needed to point out that hypocracy from the fanbase.
Most other GoT channels blowing smoke up peoples ass about HotD. at the end of the day u still have to make a captivating TV series so the audience can be invested, no if's buts or ands about it. Of course super fans and book readers are already invested. Unfortunately show runners left out the wider audience and settled for mediocrity. Let's not give the show-runners any excuses next time.
@@Ismael-xv6mj It seems like a lot of casual fans enjoyed it too. I'd say it was a solid 7.5/10 season. Even if we just rate it as a TV show without source material. Some brilliant moments with acting, directing, score, visuals, cinematography and CGI. Some lousy and contrived moments, some shock value moments that made no sense, but overall it was better than season 7 and 8 of game of thrones. Think it was on the same level as season 5 and 6. Prob nothing in HOTD was as bad as Dorne in season 5 though.
@@nostalgicbliss5547 show-runners haven't learned then. Season 1 should've hit it out of the park.
@@Ismael-xv6mj I had high expectations as I followed the production before the premiere, so I was a bit disappointed the way certain things were handled. I did not really like the way they handled Daemon and Criston Cole's characters. Also was not really feeling Paddy Considine as Viserys the first couple of episodes. Add in some of the bad wigs, bad CGI and poor establishing shots, I was concerned. Some of the CGI later on redeemed it though. Also I felt the music was not that great from Ramin. Only like 3 of them really stood out.
@@nostalgicbliss5547 despite all the praise HotD is receiving. I think it's painfully mediocre. Poor decisions all around. Lazy and very uninspiring. Acting and the CGI are ok. Not impressive at all. fandom needs to demand better!! I thought most GoT channels would make that clear. Especially after GoT ending. HotD being better than GoT ending really isn't saying much. I wouldn't recommend this show. It's either worth watching or it's not. And it's not
Dang, “I can’t call it love, cause I can’t see it.” Cut deep
I disagree with your conclusion of what he did to his wife. The maester flat out tells him that either both die or the child "might" live. He's horrified beyond belief at what he's being told and he makes a horrifying choice. Yes, he should have told her what was happening, but from a human emotional perspective he just flat out couldn't. Not because of evil, but because of how horrific it was. He was horrified by the choice given to him.
And when chosing between either both wife and child dying or saving the child, what would you have a father do? I'm sure his wife would have said the same thing, save the child. She had already born several stillborns and could not bare the thought of trying to have more children after this one (regardless of outcome) because she could not stand losing more children.
Now yes, he SHOULD have talked to her, but you can also sympathise with him as to why he couldn't. He couldn't tell her what was happening because he himself did not want to face reality of what was happening. Was it still horrifying? Yes. Can i still sympathise with him as a person? Yes.
Hell they say the same thing to Daemon regarding Laena 5 episodes later. It's clearly quite common. (the hint being imbreeding..., Aemma was also a Targaryen on her mothers side and first cousin to Viserys) .
Naming Rhaenyra and keeping Rhaenyra as heir was also obviously because he felt such guilt over his first wifes death and that Rhaenyra is the only thing left of his first wife's legacy. Everyone assumed he'd name Aegon his heir once he was born and it would have been completly logical to do so. Hell even legitimize a potential bastard son would have been logical in patriarchal, feudal Westeros society. But he kept Rhaenyra as his heir, because he loved her and especially her mother.
I’ll never like a daemon fan’s video but the rest of the video was great
I so agree! What you said about Viserys is to true. I feel like most people choose to forget 1 episode and birth scene.
I was so horrified by this scene and his decision and her not knowing what is happening.
I'm rooting for your channel. Love to see underdogs make it. Count me as +1 sub, from Alberta.
On the caves in the Seastones, if dragons were to fire directly into them their eyes and lives would be vulnerable to archers. On Viserys’s choice with Aemma, denying her agency was wrong and her death was (according to the experts in the room) was unavoidable.