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My first home had a door like this and I did all of this and it did help a bit but in the winter months I was heating my garage and noticed that I had extreme condensation between the panels and the aluminum door which developed into ice when I turned the heat off at night which then developed into a big water mess inside of my garage when the heat was off and the sun hit the door in the mornings and that to me got old very quick .
I think it is important to note that thermal imaging works by reading infrared light. Highly reflective surfaces will appear cooler than what their surface temperature actually is. This is why the taped sections appeared to be cooler than the other sections of bare frame. FLIR gives tips for measuring the surface temperature of reflective surfaces on their website. I think it calls for a non reflective thermally conductive tape like polyimide or Kapton tape. This will reveal the true surface temperature of the metal surfaces.
@@CorbinN6 electrical tape is a better choice for this application as it is much cheaper. I have always used Kapton due to the high temperatures I had to measure.
I did this to the interior of our storage container at our cabin. The reduction in heat was unbelievable!! There’s also a product called “Radiant Heat Barrier” (one product is called Reflectix). It’s a lightweight, clothe-type, thin product. It’s ability to reduce heat is amazing!
I do garage doors for a living. The right way is to change the Springs to match the new weight of the door and also add some struts so the door does not cave in over time. Even though that insulation added 10 or 15 pounds and still weighs the door down when the doors in the fully open position so therefore you got to add some struts to the second and third panel. Which will cause you to change the Springs because now the door will be too heavy for the springs that were up there and we're rated for a door without insulation. A strut is that 2-in piece of metal that goes along the top of every 16x7 door.
I cringe at every one of these diy videos knowing that the cost to do an insulation job correctly isn’t much less than an entire insulated door. But of course nowadays any way to get out of paying someone is a risk someone will take. Until the second section folds causing the operator to snap the top section which in turn snaps a cable or a spring and all of a sudden the door is getting replaced anyway. Diy garage door tricks should only be for gaining some borrowed time out of an aging door just waiting to be replaced
Great video!!! The making as well you have essentially 2 air pockets by adding the initial strips, which increases the thermal barrier even further. Great design and execution.
I have seen a few methods and this is the first one I thought could be the MOST effective. I also like that almost everything is compression fit so not a ton of adhesive or tape needed.
I noticed that there didn't seem to be any difference after removing the first layer. Seems that double layer approach was unncessary overkill. I appreciate the videos. I did like how you showed the view from the outside that demonstrated how much heat was going inside the garage as demonstrated by the cooler exposed panel.
Looked like a 3-4 degree difference to me and when you live in the West that can be the difference between comfort and feeling like you signed a contract with Satan ;-)
Yeah, you kept talking about an air gap. That actually only applies if it’s sealed and air is removed, like double paned windows. Heat transfer occurs no matter what. Insulation just slows down the rate of heat transfer. And if the garage is not air conditioned, it will equalize with the outside, just like your house would if you turned off the A/C. To cool the garage you need some kind of air conditioning. And if you did add an air conditioner the insulation would definitely help.
@@HectorDiabolucus, with adding the panels helping slow the equalizing process be a benefit because it allows an A/C to work less (more efficient)? Panels would also be beneficial without A/C because as the day goes and the sun moves, the door would get cooler, resulting in a cooler space?
Your point makes me wish he did 1/2 and 1/2 and tested both. I guess you could just do a couple of panels with the single vs double... and see that way, but great point.
@@HectorDiabolucus A well insulated garage will be much more comfortable without ac as long as you keep the door shut. Mine starts ~15 degrees cooler with just insulation.
Down here in So Cal, my garage temp was 105 today, and about two weeks ago it was 110 degrees! This is on my To-do list. Great initial video and follow up. All good info. Consider the area of the door, typically 7 ft x 19 ft wide, and figure the temp radiation into garage which heats up the internal air. These cells are the way to go. You are absolutely correct in creating the dead air space to combat thermal transfer. Thank you!
I would like to see you replace one of the cells with cardboard as that has pretty good R value. Would be easy to tape in place and try different configurations. Maybe even do other panels with XPS foam and EPS foam to show a comparison shot with the Flir camera. It could be a really good test rig for different insulation designs. Great content by the way.
Same thought I had, minus the cardboard. I’d like to see how effective the garage “kits” are at insulating. Maybe they could find someone who already has one installed and take the camera/flir gear to that location and do a comparison. The garage kits are a bit cheaper, and I wonder about ease of installation as opposed to all the cutting and numerous steps involved in installing this setup. Still great info, and worth the time to watch, just wish there was a head-to-head comparison.
One key to his approach is the reflective qualities of the foil backing. This is very similar to a roof where the heat is radiating into the space and will do so for hours after the sun goes down. Achieving a 30 degree reduction is a massive improvement. I’m of the mind that closed cell foam would be best in this situation if the weight is not too much, plus in a high humidity area, it acts as a vapor barrier.
The major downside to cardboard is flammability. The R-value of corrugated cardboard is noteworthy, but in the case of fire, foam is gonna melt/burn into a pile of Prop-65-violating goop; cardboard will contribute to the fire. Might work in a pinch, but for the sake of fire protection, if you can afford foam, go foam.
Thanks to you I’ll try doing a very similar method. Instead of 1/2 inch board I’ll use 1 inch and instead of dual layered cell I’ll do one layer with a larger air gap. I believe it will save me time and be comparable in efficiency.
For those saying the cell design wasn't doing much, please remember the inside ambient temperature of the garage was 88 degrees. The inside metal surface of the garage door was 125 degrees (@4:25) The first (outermost) layer of foam/lattice buffered the heat down to 94 degrees on the interior surface (@3:28) The second (innermost) layer of foam was 91 degrees on the interior surface (@3:23) If the ambient temp of the garage was 88 degrees there's no way the interior layer of foam could be colder than 88. The temperature gradient the interior layer of foam was buffering was between 94 degrees on the hot side and 88 degrees on the cold side. Not much of a gradient to show it was doing its job. If the rest of the garage was insulated and there was a properly sized air conditioner running, then you would surely see the interior layer of foam and cell design in action as there would be a larger temperature differential. Still it is true that the first layer of foam provided most of the insulation here.
I would love to see a comparison between this method and the plain foam board kit. Intuitively, the cell method should work. Double layer should transfer less heat than single layer over time, certainly. The reflective back makes a difference as you can see in the small bits of foil tape in the thermal imaging. I live in FLA and have foil back roof panels. It makes a difference. So this method should ultimately prove quite good. I just wonder how much so. Unlike where you live....we get clouds!!
Yup....we're in Orlando, and getting ready to do this very project. I'm thinking of just doing one layer of the foil backed foam, though. For now anyway. I guess I we can always go back and add a 2nd, if we feel it needs it.
@@carguy_tmh Would you believe I haven't gotten to it yet, brother. We're doing an big remodel on our home, and had moved everything into our garage, so there was literally no space to work. Now, that that's done, we're waiting on all new high-end, cabinetry and wall slats to arrive so what's left in the garage has a place to be stored. Visualize everything you own in your garage, along with 40% of the stuff in your house, in a big psuedo organized pile going from front to back. That's what I'm dealing with. So, after a 9mo wait (which is a story in itself) $15K worth of garage cabinets, wall slats and wooden work-bench will be installed Friday morning at 9am. Imagine living like that for 9mo, not being able to find anything, etc... Once that's done, I'll tackle the door insulation. That said, after I got my mini-split installed a few months ago, I was able to blow some foam up in the attic immediately above, and that made a HUGE difference that can't be calculated. The heat these attics retain in this Florida heat can't be described. Garage even without the door insulated stays at 72, with the humidity at 40%. So, that's my horrifically long way of saying I haven't gotten to it, yet...lol. But, soon! I'll let you know as soon as it get's up, what my experience is.
A few notes - Insulation coming into contact with the garage door is not a problem in of itself. Some condensation could theoretically appear, but it shouldn't ever be a problem with these type of materials. - The increased heat transfer you noticed on the camera is not due to lack of tape there, tape does next to nothing to prevent heat transfer - the cause is lack of insulation at that section - What tapes do is that they're sealing the air in the 'cells'. Non ventilated air has a good thermal resistance, if you can't seal it off like this you are better off using 'bricks' of styrofoam cut to measure - If you really want to feel the change at winter - insulate your roof. You loose roughly twice the amount of heat through the roof surface (that is - surface above the heated area) than through the garage door (even more here because roof has bigger area than the door does). Any amount would work wonders, but anything above 10 inches of for example styrofoam you start losing on your return on investment
Using a flir camera or laser temperature sensor is problematic when pointed at reflective surfaces, like these foiled panels. You're most likely getting the temperature reflecting off of them as if they were a mirror
Correct, the surface acts like a mirror for infrared energy as it does for light. You can actually see his infrared reflection in the Flir video of the door.
Correct. This is called emissivity. I am a certified thermographer. The simple way to defeat the issue is paint it flat black or attach some black electrical tape. You can use a $50,000 tool but get incorrect readings doing this.
After reading a number of the comments and replies, I thought I'd share my approach to the hot garage issue. I have an old 4-light 16X7 foot wooden door. The wood is roughly 2 " thick and the lights are single-pane thin glass. So, instead of attacking the door leaks, I concentrated on the ceiling, i.e. attic space above the garage. I added 14" of blown in insulation above the garage. Problem solved. For 20 years, now, I still haven't addressed the heat leakage thrugh the door. The garage is about 500 square ft area (it includes a 10x10 workbench area). I have an 8,000 btu AC in the shop area, but it blows towards the garage area. I have to run the AC 24 hours to bring the temp down to about 80 degrees, but it holds it as long as you keep it running. Not cool, but I now use half of the garage area for woodworking year-round. I don't think I'll ever get to insulating the doors. Yes, its hot within a foot of them, but that's it. Looking at his thermal shots at his ceiling made me think of sharing this. Just a different approach.
I forgot to mention. The temp in that attic space gets above 130 deg F and the ceiling area is 500 sq ft. vs 16X7 for the garage door. I don't know how much sq feet is 16X7. You do the math :>)
Proof in the pudding, that tape and silver backing at just reflecting inside IR. The tape holding your spacers would be the same temp as the garage door, yet in camera they show way cooler. Gotta account for emissivity correctly
Nice video, I followed the original video to this one. 3:24 Looks like the box design brings down about 3 degrees. Something to consider for doing it single layer or box design
Thanks for the follow up video! I watched your other video and thought it was interesting. I have been looking at those kits, and although this is pretty labor intensive, it looks like it is the best way to go. We don't get as hot as LV, but FL summers can be brutal.
This is a good follow-up to your video from last summer when you added the insulation. I commented on that video about how you did a great job explaining your technique but didn't give us any numbers to compare how well your design worked. It was great to see the temperature numbers on the panels and then on an uninsulated portion. However, you still didn't tell us exactly what your inside temperatures used to be compared to what they are now. Don't get me wrong, 80-90 degrees is better than 100, but without real numbers from before you insulated, we don't really know how much of a difference your technique made. Given the cost, which by the way, didn't include the professional spring adjustment, the temperature differences would show us a real cost/benefit ratio. I bought an infrared thermometer this past winter and started taking measurements of my garage door during different times of day and as the seasons wore on. I'm in So. TX. My garage door faces the afternoon sun. The hottest temperature I recorded was 145 degrees on a 100+ degree day around 4:00pm. We've had about 57 days of 100+ degree temps this summer, all before August. Every day, the inside temp of the garage would be 100 degrees, +/- 1-2 degrees. Even if I open the door, as well as the side door, I'm not going to get any benefit because the outside temp is already 100 degrees. Seeing a 20 degree difference between insulated and uninsulated on your door is promising. I'd love to know how that affected the inside air temperature, before and after. I'm not expecting miracles. I'm just not sure 5-10 degrees is enough to warrant the cost. 10-15 degrees, would be worth some serious consideration. 15-20 degrees would be a no-brainer.
Would love to have seen the results had you just put one panel back in. I would absolutely love to do two panels. We live in central Florida. Our 102 is like your 115, only our's is accompanied with dinosaurs, and a lot of mold....lol. So, on top of insulation requirements we've also go de-humidifying requirements to go along with it... But, I digress. With all the work we're doing, I'm just opting for one panel. Maybe at some point, I'll go back and do a second. Would be nice to know what those results are. But, regardless, anything is better than nothing. Thanks again for taking the time. This was incredibly informative.
@@MrFredsDIY I may beat you to it. I need to get mine done quickly, before the Florida summer heat sets in. I won’t do a video, but I’ll definitely let you know how it turns out. 👍
@@beammeupscottsp7952 Very well! I'm a little ashamed I didn't so it sooner. Got it all in, in about 2hrs by myself. Bought the pink stuff (Corning I believe) and it's made a big difference in sound and insulation.
Awesome update and perfect timing! I just moved to Vegas a week ago and my garage feels like 150 degrees 🥵 I seen ur original vid a few days ago and boom, hit us with the update. It’s like you knew I was doing this project today.. can u take off one outer panel for a bit and test if the cell design make a bigger difference? I’m gonna start with one layer, if it’s significantly better I’ll add on.
the RMax Thermasheath with same properties is currently selling at approximately $38/sheet in the big box stores in Houston area...assuming they even stock the product.
It looks like the thermal imaging is simply reflecting off the foil sides. like it's a big fuzzy mirror and you're seeing the heat of the side wall and back of garage. You can see an example of this effect @2:40 and then the reflection of the side wall and back wall @2:54
Thanks for checking out the video! The thermal imaging can be a little tricky with reflective surfaces. There is also temperature data in the form of numbers in degrees Fahrenheit. At 2:20 the thermal camera shows the wall to the left of the garage door, it is the same color and temperature as the door. At the 2:23 frame there is a great shot of the door, left wall and floor and all three are the same color and temperature (about 95°). The floor and wall are not reflective and yet they present the same as the reflective door because all three are in fact the same temperature, “room temperature”. The crazy thing is that the outside temperature of the door is 124° just a few inches away. There is a good image of this at 4:19. Thanks again for watching!
I assume your door is sun facing in the afternoon? Another cool test might be to add a white sunshade on the outside of the door to get rid of the UV so that only ambient temps affect the door.
I'd like to see a comparison between just using the board on one panel, vs the making the box, using the same materials. I'm sure the air gap makes a difference, but cost, time, and weight might not make the difference worth it.
Thank you for the follow up, Informative and helpful for those looking at doing a similar project. Just wondering what price point you saw for recalibrating the door springs?
I spoke to my garage door people and they said if you are adding 25lbs you have to get a new stronger spring. I didn't get a price at the time, but a quick google search said about $100.
Great video. and timely, as I've been researching solutions for the same problem. That said, a side question. What was the impact of the foil wrapped foam on the remote control performance? Seems like it would have impacted that, as well as cell phone performance in the garage.
Great questions! The foil has not impacted the remotes or cell service. I actually have a nest router in the garage as well and it is not impacted either. Thanks for commenting!
The top two sections of door are in shade on outside so taking temperature on inside of top two rows and comparing to non insulated inside of bottom two rows is biased towards higher insulation effect.
Thanks! The pink foam will work too. I like the reflective property of the foil layer. The foil may be more resistant to oil, solvents and sparks from grinding and welding in the garage.
good question. I have a house in Orlando where temps don't hit 100 but it is hot/humid. This project is on my list as my garage gets lots of sun. I am debating if I am building it the same way or just do 1 2" insulation
@@mtebor If you watch the video when he removes the panel there is like 2 degree difference and that's it. I don't think it's worth it. It probably does help a lot more with sound isolation if that's a concern - I am debating wether to do 3/4" Polyisocyanurate or 2" - I wish I knew if Polystyrene was that much worse because its a lot cheaper.
question: If the outside of the garage door was painted a flat white, would it reduce the outside skin temperatue of the door? (since it would reflect some of the IR). Is there paint or paint color, that would also reflect some of the heat? And, how that would add to your situation.
These sheets of foam are normally attached to wall studs with nail type fasteners or under metal roofing so the seams do not have a factory method for sealing. Most of the foil tape that I used originally is still in place. I have replaced some sections due to peeling. I have found that different brands stick better than others.
Regarding the outside temperature of the door, won't the insulation cause it to be even hotter on the outside than if it weren't insulated? Essentially making that reference invalid unless he left that one section uncovered for a couple hours to normalize.
Mr. Fred, first off thanks for the instructional videos. These are awesome and I plan on doing the same exact thing with my garage door. However I have a question. I called around to see if a garage door expert could come by and adjust my torsion springs cause I would be doing this project (adding 22-25 lbs) and he said he could adjust it but recommends getting a heavier duty torsion spring replacement. What do you think? Is he trying to nickel and dime me or do you recommend that as well? Thanks in advance!
Thanks for checking out the videos! I considered the heavier springs as well and I might have upgraded but one of my springs was fairly new at the time of my project. Had both of my springs been older I might have done the spring upgrade and if my old spring fails in the future I will consider it again. My garage door guy was okay adjusting the springs I have but he noted the heavier springs would last longer and possibly extend the life of the opener motor. I don’t think your guy is trying to nickel and dime you and if your springs have some age on them consider the upgrade. Torsion springs can fail when they get older. Of course now that I said that I have probably jinxed my old spring lol. Good luck with your project.!
I wonder what difference it would make to use Reflectix as the door facing layer of the closed box. I just move to Baton Rouge and have a West facing double width garage.
I guess my question is why wont you put the 1st panel with the reflective side directed towards the door vs pointed towards the interior so it would reflect the heat?
Hello Mr Fred, I watched your first video a few weeks ago and started the process of insulating my garage door following your tutorial. In your first video, you had the foil side facing inward for both panels of the cell, but in this video, you’re showing the panel against the garage with the foil side facing out. Is there a difference in which way the foil is facing?
My understanding is that both sides are foil face but one side is more reflective than the other. Since there are two layers and an air gap I’m not sure how much of a difference it would be either way. Having the reflective side facing in would benefit the garage side when trying to heat or cool the garage. Thanks for watching!
Most of these people are losers, you did a great job and just looking at the other video of the instalation it made sense that it would be effective and I didn't have to question it
So the panels provide insulation when you first install ands measure temps. But what about after a couple hours of being in the heat- does the heat just work its way through the panels eventually? Do the panels just delay the heat getting the garage?
Why don’t they just make garage doors that are properly insulated to start with? Plus, you need to block the heat transfer around all the gaps and joints, and that requires a better designed door. Garage doors today are designed to be as cheap as possible. Manufacturers don’t care about energy conservation until the government forces them to, unfortunately.
Friend bought one years ago and it made a HUGE difference... also pointed out that the builder skimped on the insulation on the house walls the garage was enclosing... had a guy shoot them full of insulation and cut his overall house a/c and heating nearly 35% year around... (he had 3 walls of house - the garage filled the opening of the U shaped house ...
If my door had windows I probably would’ve covered them as if they weren’t there. Of course I am not a fan of windows in garage doors unless they are frosted for privacy.
A few choices, 1. Buy a solid panel from your garage door company. 2. Apply a frost film over the glass and treat it like the rest of the panels. 3. If you really want to keep the windows see if your garage door company makes a panel with insulated glass panels.
When you briefly had the cell opened up and only the single wall of insulation was on the door, the temp didn't appear to go up. Wondering if the cell is overkill?
Thanks for watching the video! I suppose in a more mild climate a single layer would be fine. Here in Las Vegas we have some temperature extremes. 117° in the summer and below freezing in the winter. As I said in the video I am noticing the largest benefits when I try to heat or cool the garage. I’m thinking that’s when the second layer of the cell adds the most value.
@@MrFredsDIY I live is SW Florida and I'll be doing my garage door following what you did in the video. But we need to find something that keeps the heat our around the edges better. I've got to replace the seal and was hoping you had a trick up your sleeve or something. lol
@@charibolejack9452 I know what you mean! The thermal images from the door edges are pretty shocking. I have brand new door seal installed correctly and it doesn’t seem to matter here in Las Vegas! I’m still searching for a better solution. Thanks for watching!
Polyiso is the way to go! Check out the original video here ruclips.net/video/pvi8__d081I/видео.html. 🔵 Join the Facebook conversation facebook.com/groups/mrfredsdiycommunitypage/?ref=share_group_link
How much weight did you add to the door?
If you watch at 7:04 I break down the added weight. It’s about 25lbs.
My first home had a door like this and I did all of this and it did help a bit but in the winter months I was heating my garage and noticed that I had extreme condensation between the panels and the aluminum door which developed into ice when I turned the heat off at night which then developed into a big water mess inside of my garage when the heat was off and the sun hit the door in the mornings and that to me got old very quick .
I think it is important to note that thermal imaging works by reading infrared light. Highly reflective surfaces will appear cooler than what their surface temperature actually is. This is why the taped sections appeared to be cooler than the other sections of bare frame. FLIR gives tips for measuring the surface temperature of reflective surfaces on their website. I think it calls for a non reflective thermally conductive tape like polyimide or Kapton tape. This will reveal the true surface temperature of the metal surfaces.
You can just say electrical tape..
@@CorbinN6 electrical tape is a better choice for this application as it is much cheaper. I have always used Kapton due to the high temperatures I had to measure.
whenever I see vids like this, I'm thankful my garage door faces north...and that it's insulated.
I did this to the interior of our storage container at our cabin. The reduction in heat was unbelievable!! There’s also a product called “Radiant Heat Barrier” (one product is called Reflectix). It’s a lightweight, clothe-type, thin product. It’s ability to reduce heat is amazing!
Thanks for sharing your project!
You are needed at NASA . Your patience is admirable!
I'm in the process of doing mine in North Georgia. We're about to get an artic blast and now is the perfect time to do it.
I do garage doors for a living. The right way is to change the Springs to match the new weight of the door and also add some struts so the door does not cave in over time. Even though that insulation added 10 or 15 pounds and still weighs the door down when the doors in the fully open position so therefore you got to add some struts to the second and third panel. Which will cause you to change the Springs because now the door will be too heavy for the springs that were up there and we're rated for a door without insulation. A strut is that 2-in piece of metal that goes along the top of every 16x7 door.
I cringe at every one of these diy videos knowing that the cost to do an insulation job correctly isn’t much less than an entire insulated door. But of course nowadays any way to get out of paying someone is a risk someone will take. Until the second section folds causing the operator to snap the top section which in turn snaps a cable or a spring and all of a sudden the door is getting replaced anyway. Diy garage door tricks should only be for gaining some borrowed time out of an aging door just waiting to be replaced
@@stevelongo3672 How is insulating your door for a couple hundred $ even a comparison to a new door that is at least $3k??
I just got a quote for $9000 for a single double door. This is $200-$300. @@stevelongo3672
Great video!!! The making as well you have essentially 2 air pockets by adding the initial strips, which increases the thermal barrier even further. Great design and execution.
Thanks for checking out the video!
I have seen a few methods and this is the first one I thought could be the MOST effective. I also like that almost everything is compression fit so not a ton of adhesive or tape needed.
The video is really good! You shared some really useful information. I believe using just one layer of polyiso should be sufficient.
I noticed that there didn't seem to be any difference after removing the first layer. Seems that double layer approach was unncessary overkill. I appreciate the videos. I did like how you showed the view from the outside that demonstrated how much heat was going inside the garage as demonstrated by the cooler exposed panel.
Looked like a 3-4 degree difference to me and when you live in the West that can be the difference between comfort and feeling like you signed a contract with Satan ;-)
Yeah, you kept talking about an air gap. That actually only applies if it’s sealed and air is removed, like double paned windows. Heat transfer occurs no matter what. Insulation just slows down the rate of heat transfer. And if the garage is not air conditioned, it will equalize with the outside, just like your house would if you turned off the A/C. To cool the garage you need some kind of air conditioning. And if you did add an air conditioner the insulation would definitely help.
@@HectorDiabolucus, with adding the panels helping slow the equalizing process be a benefit because it allows an A/C to work less (more efficient)? Panels would also be beneficial without A/C because as the day goes and the sun moves, the door would get cooler, resulting in a cooler space?
Your point makes me wish he did 1/2 and 1/2 and tested both. I guess you could just do a couple of panels with the single vs double... and see that way, but great point.
@@HectorDiabolucus A well insulated garage will be much more comfortable without ac as long as you keep the door shut. Mine starts ~15 degrees cooler with just insulation.
Down here in So Cal, my garage temp was 105 today, and about two weeks ago it was 110 degrees! This is on my To-do list. Great initial video and follow up. All good info.
Consider the area of the door, typically 7 ft x 19 ft wide, and figure the temp radiation into garage which heats up the internal air. These cells are the way to go. You are absolutely correct in creating the dead air space to combat thermal transfer.
Thank you!
Thanks for watching both videos! My garage used to get so hot my Christmas candles would melt in their boxes lol!
Must be in AZ with those temps :) Gilbert here. Maybe ill try this on my garage. Its always an oven in there.
In Gilbert here as well, let me know how it went. Planning to get it done this weekend.
@@rahulrathan In Chandler here...did you complete this DIY project? If so, how is it holding up?
I would like to see you replace one of the cells with cardboard as that has pretty good R value. Would be easy to tape in place and try different configurations. Maybe even do other panels with XPS foam and EPS foam to show a comparison shot with the Flir camera. It could be a really good test rig for different insulation designs. Great content by the way.
Thanks for the interesting feedback!
Same thought I had, minus the cardboard. I’d like to see how effective the garage “kits” are at insulating. Maybe they could find someone who already has one installed and take the camera/flir gear to that location and do a comparison. The garage kits are a bit cheaper, and I wonder about ease of installation as opposed to all the cutting and numerous steps involved in installing this setup. Still great info, and worth the time to watch, just wish there was a head-to-head comparison.
One key to his approach is the reflective qualities of the foil backing.
This is very similar to a roof where the heat is radiating into the space and will do so for hours after the sun goes down.
Achieving a 30 degree reduction is a massive improvement. I’m of the mind that closed cell foam would be best in this situation if the weight is not too much, plus in a high humidity area, it acts as a vapor barrier.
The major downside to cardboard is flammability. The R-value of corrugated cardboard is noteworthy, but in the case of fire, foam is gonna melt/burn into a pile of Prop-65-violating goop; cardboard will contribute to the fire.
Might work in a pinch, but for the sake of fire protection, if you can afford foam, go foam.
@@deviationblue Have you seen foam burn? I think I’d rather have cardboard in a fire. The black smoke and fumes from burning foam is nasty.
Thanks to you I’ll try doing a very similar method. Instead of 1/2 inch board I’ll use 1 inch and instead of dual layered cell I’ll do one layer with a larger air gap. I believe it will save me time and be comparable in efficiency.
Good luck with your project!
@Blueman7800, how did the 1 inch single layer go for you?
How'd the 1" stuff work out? Any before/after data?
For those saying the cell design wasn't doing much, please remember the inside ambient temperature of the garage was 88 degrees.
The inside metal surface of the garage door was 125 degrees (@4:25)
The first (outermost) layer of foam/lattice buffered the heat down to 94 degrees on the interior surface (@3:28)
The second (innermost) layer of foam was 91 degrees on the interior surface (@3:23)
If the ambient temp of the garage was 88 degrees there's no way the interior layer of foam could be colder than 88. The temperature gradient the interior layer of foam was buffering was between 94 degrees on the hot side and 88 degrees on the cold side. Not much of a gradient to show it was doing its job. If the rest of the garage was insulated and there was a properly sized air conditioner running, then you would surely see the interior layer of foam and cell design in action as there would be a larger temperature differential.
Still it is true that the first layer of foam provided most of the insulation here.
I agree that’s why I’ll try 1 layer of thicker board with a larger air gap
I would love to see a comparison between this method and the plain foam board kit. Intuitively, the cell method should work. Double layer should transfer less heat than single layer over time, certainly. The reflective back makes a difference as you can see in the small bits of foil tape in the thermal imaging. I live in FLA and have foil back roof panels. It makes a difference. So this method should ultimately prove quite good. I just wonder how much so. Unlike where you live....we get clouds!!
Yup....we're in Orlando, and getting ready to do this very project. I'm thinking of just doing one layer of the foil backed foam, though. For now anyway. I guess I we can always go back and add a 2nd, if we feel it needs it.
@@phillamoore157 how did the 1 layer work out? Did you end up adding the second layer?
@@carguy_tmh Would you believe I haven't gotten to it yet, brother. We're doing an big remodel on our home, and had moved everything into our garage, so there was literally no space to work. Now, that that's done, we're waiting on all new high-end, cabinetry and wall slats to arrive so what's left in the garage has a place to be stored. Visualize everything you own in your garage, along with 40% of the stuff in your house, in a big psuedo organized pile going from front to back. That's what I'm dealing with. So, after a 9mo wait (which is a story in itself) $15K worth of garage cabinets, wall slats and wooden work-bench will be installed Friday morning at 9am. Imagine living like that for 9mo, not being able to find anything, etc... Once that's done, I'll tackle the door insulation. That said, after I got my mini-split installed a few months ago, I was able to blow some foam up in the attic immediately above, and that made a HUGE difference that can't be calculated. The heat these attics retain in this Florida heat can't be described. Garage even without the door insulated stays at 72, with the humidity at 40%. So, that's my horrifically long way of saying I haven't gotten to it, yet...lol. But, soon! I'll let you know as soon as it get's up, what my experience is.
@@phillamoore157 well I know how that goes. I'm curious about the results so let me know
A few notes
- Insulation coming into contact with the garage door is not a problem in of itself. Some condensation could theoretically appear, but it shouldn't ever be a problem with these type of materials.
- The increased heat transfer you noticed on the camera is not due to lack of tape there, tape does next to nothing to prevent heat transfer - the cause is lack of insulation at that section
- What tapes do is that they're sealing the air in the 'cells'. Non ventilated air has a good thermal resistance, if you can't seal it off like this you are better off using 'bricks' of styrofoam cut to measure
- If you really want to feel the change at winter - insulate your roof. You loose roughly twice the amount of heat through the roof surface (that is - surface above the heated area) than through the garage door (even more here because roof has bigger area than the door does). Any amount would work wonders, but anything above 10 inches of for example styrofoam you start losing on your return on investment
Awesome job! Glad to see the temp difference
imagine actually building homes with walls, roofs, doors and windows properly insulated from the get go :D
Using a flir camera or laser temperature sensor is problematic when pointed at reflective surfaces, like these foiled panels. You're most likely getting the temperature reflecting off of them as if they were a mirror
I recently had to use one of these cameras for work and quickly discovered that myself.
Correct, the surface acts like a mirror for infrared energy as it does for light. You can actually see his infrared reflection in the Flir video of the door.
Correct.
This is called emissivity.
I am a certified thermographer.
The simple way to defeat the issue is paint it flat black or attach some black electrical tape.
You can use a $50,000 tool but get incorrect readings doing this.
Thanks for the update on cost and temp variance
Nice video. I’m tempted to try it. From the temp readings, you must be here in the desert Southwest too lol 😓
what a great follow up
Great set of videos with a great idea. Appreciate the time you took to do this.
After reading a number of the comments and replies, I thought I'd share my approach to the hot garage issue. I have an old 4-light 16X7 foot wooden door. The wood is roughly 2 " thick and the lights are single-pane thin glass. So, instead of attacking the door leaks, I concentrated on the ceiling, i.e. attic space above the garage. I added 14" of blown in insulation above the garage. Problem solved. For 20 years, now, I still haven't addressed the heat leakage thrugh the door. The garage is about 500 square ft area (it includes a 10x10 workbench area). I have an 8,000 btu AC in the shop area, but it blows towards the garage area. I have to run the AC 24 hours to bring the temp down to about 80 degrees, but it holds it as long as you keep it running. Not cool, but I now use half of the garage area for woodworking year-round.
I don't think I'll ever get to insulating the doors. Yes, its hot within a foot of them, but that's it. Looking at his thermal shots at his ceiling made me think of sharing this. Just a different approach.
I forgot to mention. The temp in that attic space gets above 130 deg F and the ceiling area is 500 sq ft. vs 16X7 for the garage door. I don't know how much sq feet is 16X7. You do the math :>)
I am planning on doing some insulation in the attic above the garage as well. Thanks for sharing!
Proof in the pudding, that tape and silver backing at just reflecting inside IR. The tape holding your spacers would be the same temp as the garage door, yet in camera they show way cooler. Gotta account for emissivity correctly
thanks for the demo and info, have a great day
Thank for the follow up video! You rock , Mr. Fred!!!
Nice video, I followed the original video to this one.
3:24 Looks like the box design brings down about 3 degrees. Something to consider for doing it single layer or box design
Glad you followed up. Your design seems like a perfect setup for me
Wow this is what I need
Thanks for the follow up video
Wow! What a difference! Thanks for the follow up video!
I am happy with the results. Thank you for checking out the video!
@@MrFredsDIY, you’re very welcome
Nice job following up after all that work. The first video was pretty obvious improvement to me. Put a Darn Ac in that garage. Good day bro
Love your video. That is amazing.
Thanks for the follow up video! I watched your other video and thought it was interesting. I have been looking at those kits, and although this is pretty labor intensive, it looks like it is the best way to go. We don't get as hot as LV, but FL summers can be brutal.
This is a good follow-up to your video from last summer when you added the insulation. I commented on that video about how you did a great job explaining your technique but didn't give us any numbers to compare how well your design worked. It was great to see the temperature numbers on the panels and then on an uninsulated portion. However, you still didn't tell us exactly what your inside temperatures used to be compared to what they are now. Don't get me wrong, 80-90 degrees is better than 100, but without real numbers from before you insulated, we don't really know how much of a difference your technique made. Given the cost, which by the way, didn't include the professional spring adjustment, the temperature differences would show us a real cost/benefit ratio.
I bought an infrared thermometer this past winter and started taking measurements of my garage door during different times of day and as the seasons wore on. I'm in So. TX. My garage door faces the afternoon sun. The hottest temperature I recorded was 145 degrees on a 100+ degree day around 4:00pm. We've had about 57 days of 100+ degree temps this summer, all before August. Every day, the inside temp of the garage would be 100 degrees, +/- 1-2 degrees. Even if I open the door, as well as the side door, I'm not going to get any benefit because the outside temp is already 100 degrees.
Seeing a 20 degree difference between insulated and uninsulated on your door is promising. I'd love to know how that affected the inside air temperature, before and after. I'm not expecting miracles. I'm just not sure 5-10 degrees is enough to warrant the cost. 10-15 degrees, would be worth some serious consideration. 15-20 degrees would be a no-brainer.
how did it turn out? I'm in TX too, DFW.
Would love to have seen the results had you just put one panel back in. I would absolutely love to do two panels. We live in central Florida. Our 102 is like your 115, only our's is accompanied with dinosaurs, and a lot of mold....lol. So, on top of insulation requirements we've also go de-humidifying requirements to go along with it... But, I digress. With all the work we're doing, I'm just opting for one panel. Maybe at some point, I'll go back and do a second. Would be nice to know what those results are. But, regardless, anything is better than nothing. Thanks again for taking the time. This was incredibly informative.
Fred Jr is thinking about doing his door this summer with only one panel. If we end up doing that project, I will make a video.! Thanks for watching!
@@MrFredsDIY I may beat you to it. I need to get mine done quickly, before the Florida summer heat sets in. I won’t do a video, but I’ll definitely let you know how it turns out. 👍
@@phillamoore157 so how did it turn out
@@beammeupscottsp7952 Very well! I'm a little ashamed I didn't so it sooner. Got it all in, in about 2hrs by myself. Bought the pink stuff (Corning I believe) and it's made a big difference in sound and insulation.
How much weight have you added to the door and will the extra weight strain the motor?
Insulation, even foam, does add weight to a door. I had my torsion springs adjusted by my garage door guy. Thanks for watching!
Is this house on Mars? I’m sweating just looking at the temperature haha. Good video man!
Awesome update and perfect timing! I just moved to Vegas a week ago and my garage feels like 150 degrees 🥵 I seen ur original vid a few days ago and boom, hit us with the update. It’s like you knew I was doing this project today..
can u take off one outer panel for a bit and test if the cell design make a bigger difference? I’m gonna start with one layer, if it’s significantly better I’ll add on.
That's not a bad idea, starting with one layer. Everything is so expensive these days! Thanks for the viewership!
the RMax Thermasheath with same properties is currently selling at approximately $38/sheet in the big box stores in Houston area...assuming they even stock the product.
It looks like the thermal imaging is simply reflecting off the foil sides. like it's a big fuzzy mirror and you're seeing the heat of the side wall and back of garage. You can see an example of this effect @2:40 and then the reflection of the side wall and back wall @2:54
Thanks for checking out the video! The thermal imaging can be a little tricky with reflective surfaces. There is also temperature data in the form of numbers in degrees Fahrenheit. At 2:20 the thermal camera shows the wall to the left of the garage door, it is the same color and temperature as the door. At the 2:23 frame there is a great shot of the door, left wall and floor and all three are the same color and temperature (about 95°). The floor and wall are not reflective and yet they present the same as the reflective door because all three are in fact the same temperature, “room temperature”. The crazy thing is that the outside temperature of the door is 124° just a few inches away. There is a good image of this at 4:19. Thanks again for watching!
@@MrFredsDIY oh good breakdown I see that now. IR is so tricky
Nice work thanks for sharing
The star of the show was the swinging tennis ball. Now I'm sleepy. Sooooo sleepy.
Thanks for the update
Another great video! Thanks!
Great video(s). Your data based observations are awesome! Question on the polyiso you used..did you use 1/2'" thick material?
Nicely done.
I assume your door is sun facing in the afternoon? Another cool test might be to add a white sunshade on the outside of the door to get rid of the UV so that only ambient temps affect the door.
I’m glad the door isn’t darker! A dark door facing the sun would be brutal! Thanks for watching!
Dude! Very good ideas! Thank you!
If your garage door faces the sun, then painting it gloss white will further reduce the temp. Any color absorbs heat.
Wow, it is a dramatic difference.
Do you know what the R value of your cells are. That seems like that would be an important point.
I'd like to see a comparison between just using the board on one panel, vs the making the box, using the same materials.
I'm sure the air gap makes a difference, but cost, time, and weight might not make the difference worth it.
I’m wondering if it would make more sense to just slap 2” thick polyiso on it and be done with it.
Thank you for the follow up, Informative and helpful for those looking at doing a similar project. Just wondering what price point you saw for recalibrating the door springs?
I spoke to my garage door people and they said if you are adding 25lbs you have to get a new stronger spring. I didn't get a price at the time, but a quick google search said about $100.
I suppose every garage door company has their own opinion on this topic. Thanks for watching!
Great video. and timely, as I've been researching solutions for the same problem. That said, a side question.
What was the impact of the foil wrapped foam on the remote control performance? Seems like it would have impacted that, as well as cell phone performance in the garage.
Great questions! The foil has not impacted the remotes or cell service. I actually have a nest router in the garage as well and it is not impacted either. Thanks for commenting!
Do FLIR Cameras work properly on reflective surfaces? Curious how it compares to your thermometer measurements.
The top two sections of door are in shade on outside so taking temperature on inside of top two rows and comparing to non insulated inside
of bottom two rows is biased towards higher insulation effect.
Excelent Design & Video!l
Well done, so helpful you did a follow-up video. Definitely worth the time. Looks like it dropped your garage temp about 10 degrees?
Thanks! 10-15 depending on the season. I’m glad I did it.
@@MrFredsDIY 10 to 15? Looked like at least 20. Your door without insulation was a 123, the insulated portions were 91.
I’m certainly glad I insulated this door! Thanks for watching!
Here in my garage…
Great video, thanks for the update video. What do you think about using the pink foam?
Thanks! The pink foam will work too. I like the reflective property of the foil layer. The foil may be more resistant to oil, solvents and sparks from grinding and welding in the garage.
How about a video renting a box store cell machine blower and open blow on top of the ceiling dry wall.
Great job thanks
Have you ever considered creating an opening at the bottom of the door for venting?
That’s an interesting idea! Thanks for watching the video!
Worth saying again to have a pro adjust your springs. Those things are extremely dangerous
It seems to me just 1 layer of the half inch was doing most of work and the whole cell wasn't necessary....am I wrong in this opinion?
good question. I have a house in Orlando where temps don't hit 100 but it is hot/humid. This project is on my list as my garage gets lots of sun. I am debating if I am building it the same way or just do 1 2" insulation
@@mtebor If you watch the video when he removes the panel there is like 2 degree difference and that's it. I don't think it's worth it. It probably does help a lot more with sound isolation if that's a concern - I am debating wether to do 3/4" Polyisocyanurate or 2" - I wish I knew if Polystyrene was that much worse because its a lot cheaper.
@@LDBaha take a look at the 4 minute mark. that is a big difference
question: If the outside of the garage door was painted a flat white, would it reduce the outside skin temperatue of the door? (since it would reflect some of the IR). Is there paint or paint color, that would also reflect some of the heat? And, how that would add to your situation.
So how often do you replace the seam tape.? And why aren't the seams made to seal from the factory?
These sheets of foam are normally attached to wall studs with nail type fasteners or under metal roofing so the seams do not have a factory method for sealing. Most of the foil tape that I used originally is still in place. I have replaced some sections due to peeling. I have found that different brands stick better than others.
Regarding the outside temperature of the door, won't the insulation cause it to be even hotter on the outside than if it weren't insulated? Essentially making that reference invalid unless he left that one section uncovered for a couple hours to normalize.
Mr. Fred, first off thanks for the instructional videos. These are awesome and I plan on doing the same exact thing with my garage door. However I have a question. I called around to see if a garage door expert could come by and adjust my torsion springs cause I would be doing this project (adding 22-25 lbs) and he said he could adjust it but recommends getting a heavier duty torsion spring replacement. What do you think? Is he trying to nickel and dime me or do you recommend that as well? Thanks in advance!
Thanks for checking out the videos! I considered the heavier springs as well and I might have upgraded but one of my springs was fairly new at the time of my project. Had both of my springs been older I might have done the spring upgrade and if my old spring fails in the future I will consider it again. My garage door guy was okay adjusting the springs I have but he noted the heavier springs would last longer and possibly extend the life of the opener motor. I don’t think your guy is trying to nickel and dime you and if your springs have some age on them consider the upgrade. Torsion springs can fail when they get older. Of course now that I said that I have probably jinxed my old spring lol. Good luck with your project.!
You should have used that thermal scanner before you installed the insulation
If the heat is coming from the outside?
Then why didn't you face the reflective material outwards?
I wonder what difference it would make to use Reflectix as the door facing layer of the closed box. I just move to Baton Rouge and have a West facing double width garage.
Interesting idea. I would think you could have good results with that plan. Thanks for watching!
I can't find what thickness on both videos
The Polyiso thickness that I used was 1/2”. Thanks for watching!
I guess my question is why wont you put the 1st panel with the reflective side directed towards the door vs pointed towards the interior so it would reflect the heat?
Hello Mr Fred, I watched your first video a few weeks ago and started the process of insulating my garage door following your tutorial. In your first video, you had the foil side facing inward for both panels of the cell, but in this video, you’re showing the panel against the garage with the foil side facing out. Is there a difference in which way the foil is facing?
My understanding is that both sides are foil face but one side is more reflective than the other. Since there are two layers and an air gap I’m not sure how much of a difference it would be either way. Having the reflective side facing in would benefit the garage side when trying to heat or cool the garage. Thanks for watching!
This is on my to do list but unfortunately there is no 1/2 thick polyiso anywhere near me. 😢
So my supply issues right now! Thanks for watching!
Nice video, just wondering why you haven't insulated your garage attic space also?
That is on my list! Thanks for watching!
Did you you pine for a specific reason? Great video
Pine was the cheapest spacer I could find and I felt wood in general would not conduct heat. Thanks for checking out the video!
3:40 opening a window into nuclear reactor lol
How about a winter update! Thanks
Most of these people are losers, you did a great job and just looking at the other video of the instalation it made sense that it would be effective and I didn't have to question it
Did you do any comparisons to alternate designs, i.e. 1” solid polyiso, etc.
Your garage might be 15 degrees cooler than outside temps with the insulation. But without the insulation it’s gonna be like 130 degrees lol
It seems the there were no difference in temperature when you took off 1 panel
So the panels provide insulation when you first install ands measure temps. But what about after a couple hours of being in the heat- does the heat just work its way through the panels eventually? Do the panels just delay the heat getting the garage?
Why don’t they just make garage doors that are properly insulated to start with? Plus, you need to block the heat transfer around all the gaps and joints, and that requires a better designed door. Garage doors today are designed to be as cheap as possible. Manufacturers don’t care about energy conservation until the government forces them to, unfortunately.
They are available.
Friend bought one years ago and it made a HUGE difference... also pointed out that the builder skimped on the insulation on the house walls the garage was enclosing... had a guy shoot them full of insulation and cut his overall house a/c and heating nearly 35% year around... (he had 3 walls of house - the garage filled the opening of the U shaped house ...
What type of would spacers did you use? I would like to do my door in the next 2 weeks. Here in TN, it's starting to heat up. Thank you in advance.
How much for a garage door pro to adjust the spring?
My guy charged me $50 and he lubed and greased too.
What would the temp be if you had a wood garage door?.
Great question, wooden doors were popular for many years.
Great question, wooden garage doors were popular for a long time!
nice.. but damn.. i got 3 garage doors.. thats a lot of work
to insulate them lol
Thanks for watching the video! Depending on where you live, some folks have mentioned in the comments only doing one layer of the polyisocyanurate.
How to do panel with windows?
If my door had windows I probably would’ve covered them as if they weren’t there. Of course I am not a fan of windows in garage doors unless they are frosted for privacy.
A few choices, 1. Buy a solid panel from your garage door company. 2. Apply a frost film over the glass and treat it like the rest of the panels. 3. If you really want to keep the windows see if your garage door company makes a panel with insulated glass panels.
When you briefly had the cell opened up and only the single wall of insulation was on the door, the temp didn't appear to go up. Wondering if the cell is overkill?
Thanks for watching the video! I suppose in a more mild climate a single layer would be fine. Here in Las Vegas we have some temperature extremes. 117° in the summer and below freezing in the winter. As I said in the video I am noticing the largest benefits when I try to heat or cool the garage. I’m thinking that’s when the second layer of the cell adds the most value.
@@MrFredsDIY Ya maybe so. Would be interesting to know how much r-value it's delivering vs single layer. Might be diminishing returns for the cost.
@@MrFredsDIY Hey! BUT It's A Dry Heat!! But So Is Our Oven! :)
Nice way to shut the trolls up lol
What do you do about the outer edges where the heat leaks in?
I have rubberized garage door trim/seal but the heat transfers through it.
@@MrFredsDIY I live is SW Florida and I'll be doing my garage door following what you did in the video. But we need to find something that keeps the heat our around the edges better. I've got to replace the seal and was hoping you had a trick up your sleeve or something. lol
@@charibolejack9452 I know what you mean! The thermal images from the door edges are pretty shocking. I have brand new door seal installed correctly and it doesn’t seem to matter here in Las Vegas! I’m still searching for a better solution. Thanks for watching!
Are you going to insulate the garage ceiling ?
Can you open your garage door with no problems?
My garage door guy adjusted the door for me. It works fine. Thanks for watching!
Is it flamable?
Polyiso is less flammable than styrofoam, which is the alternative insulation for garage doors. Thanks for watching!