Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ | The Gundam Retrospective
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Released in 1986 as a direct followup to Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam, Double Zeta wraps up the original story of the Universal Centuries Neo-Zeon conflict. Not released to the west until 2014, Double Zeta still has no official dub, and has never aired in its entirety in North America. Considered the black sheep of the early franchise by some, DZ shifted the tone away from the dour bleakness of Zeta and offered a more humorous, slapstick version of the series. Now 35 years later we can finally look back on the underrated Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ
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Gundam ZZ can be summed up as : "We always ask what Haman is doing, we never ask How Haman is doing."
What she's doing: Creeping on some 14 year old gigachad.
How She's doing: ...Not well: See question 1.
@@DIEGhostfish to be fair, her first love was a gigachad (with sunglasses) creeping on her when she was 15
@@alexanonimo6876 He didn't creep on her. Even in CDA.
@@DIEGhostfish I swear, this was a good joke that you just missed real hard.
@@alexanonimo6876 Sorry then
Bruh I was just mad ZZ did not actually refer to Zaku Zeta. It would've been cooler (and funnier) for neo-zeon to be destroyed by a Gundam with a Zaku head.
Mashymyre might be one of my favorite characters of anything Gundam. I've never seen someone go Super Simp 3 before, and I don't think there's much that will beat that in my mind.
Hahah super simp 3 I love it
The implifications that Haman wired his brain into mindlessly serving her is scary and tragic for his character though.
The african episodes are some of my favorites. The fact they see the Federation as the enemy because to them it's an extension of the French colonial system is fascinating to me. Like that one map that says the southeast US was one of the anti feddie hotspots.
Money on it being the original 11 confederate states doing it for ~~Totally not racist reasons~~
Spacenoids showing up and being called French as a slur was such a cultural confrontation and Blue Squad was genuinely tragic.
The Africa arc was really good.
@@Duchess_Van_Hoof I love the map that shows the hotspots that are a problem for the federation. You've got dixie, africa, various zeon landing hotspots, Afghanistan, naturally.
By the way, French colonialism never went away, all I have to say is „CFA franc“
@@chheinrich8486 They hold some purse strings over former colonies but are generally more the colonized than the colonizer these days
the fact of so many people thinking of how good is ZZ in the last years make me glad we need more Judau Ashta, and we need Crossbone Gundam anime
Give me some Gump action
But if that happens then bandai would need to make standard release kits for it oh noooo
ZZ put me onto Judaus VA kazuki Yao. Hearing his voice in any other anime is just a treat to me now because I always love his performances lol
We def need a crossbones gundam anime! And a redo of Gundam F91. An actual series instead of the movie
I agree we need more Judau, however I kinda wish they go in a different direction than Crossbone. Don't get me wrong, like the pirate themed designs, but they feel out of place in UC. Would like to see an original take of some sort
Char’s Deleted Affair is an amazing manga for getting to know Haman’s past. She is one of my favourite characters after having explored her backstory
It was a real struggle to get through ZZ. I went in DIRECTLY after Zeta, so the whiplash was real.
I think I only started to enjoy the series midway when you (spoilers) are made to believe Judaus sister died.
i dropped it once cause of how awful the first episode was but Haman made me pick it up again . also the fact that they never explained how Judeau's sister survived was bullshit
for me it started getting good around episode 45, right before the end. Only then you finally gets mature characters and real politics. Everything before is a shitshow - main characters are annoing shitbrats you want to see dead, zeon characters are idiots and characters from the previous are either turned into trash (bright noa stalked by some weird lady trying to get into his pants) or not even mentioned at all. I also came to it stright form the Zeta and I was f***ing pissed that I must struggle trough this shit just to have some closure to Zeta and have context before moving to CCA... which wasn't even true in the end, because ZZ story could be entirely cut out (except final four episodes where zeon colapses under itself) and nobody would notice.
God, it's been years now and it's still triggering me lol.
@@acidous Maybe ZZ needs a Movie that explores more of the final arc and just sums up the first part hahah
For real, i was having a blast with zeta killing every live interest in its way and then comes this drag. Chara is the only saving grace for me.
By the time I get to episode 24 I started watching it at x2 speed. I just had to read extra fast but watching it at that speed saved me about 3 hours of watch time.
I think one or two episodes in ZZ featuring Amuro and Char would have really strengthened Chars Counterattack. It just would have been nice to see what really led into their conflict in that movie as it opens up so many years later without a ton of explanation for Char’s motivation
Unhealthy break up
Same with Hathaway's flesh, seems a little bit off giving it went right after NT, and Hathaway somehow acquired the ZZ Gundam, or at least, something pretty closer to the ZZ and the Federation Gundam isn't well explained considering the end of NT there should be no more gundans untill the F-91.
I've heard that most Gundam series based on a source material cut out a bit too much.
Not to mention the rushed development of CCA. Could have worked better as an OVA
@@Demospammer9987 Or a series.
Can’t wait for you to do CCA and Unicorn. Hope you do the side stories and ovas like 0080, narrative, 0083, thunderbolt
I loved CCA so im excited to get that video done. I'm planning on doing everything(almost) in release order so 0080, 0083, Thunderbolt etc... will be done for sure!
I really would not recommend skipping ZZ to anyone who plans to go into later U.C. series. Apart from being a really good series in it's own right, once you get through the first couple of episodes, it also helps greatly to contextualize Unicorn, making character motivations make more sense and certain scenes hit so much harder.
Yep, I watched unicorn without ZZ, so somethings were a little off, when I watched ZZ I understood somethings and it hit like a truck.
Zz is shit lol
I suppose.
@@Rrgr5
To understand Marida one must watch ZZ, specifically the episodes involving Elpeo Ple, Ple 2, and the battle between Chara Soon and the Ple mass production clones. It’s the key to her entire character.
@@OrtadragoonX No, it's really not. Oh no, she was one of the mass produced Ple clones, who was then incidentally sold into prostitution!
Like, knowing that's what she was doing beforehand really does nothing to enrich or build upon her character, any more than if she had been just another random girl. Oh no, you won't know who the Glemy silhouette is! Good thing that can be summed up in a single sentence, and has really no bearing on Unicorn otherwise.
I'm getting really tired of people trying to make the argument that ZZ is essential viewing for Unicorn and/or CCA. If you just want to watch ZZ for its own sake, that's fine, but if you're one of the many people who was put off by it, you really shouldn't be made to feel like it's just 47 episodes of homework for later UC content. Zeta absolutely is, for the development of both Char and Mineva. CCA is, for obvious reasons. Ditto for MSG. Can you seriously tell me, in all honesty, that you think ZZ provides even a fraction of the context that any of those things do? "Making character motivations make more sense"? What the hell does anything in ZZ have to do with anyone's motivations? If you're talking about Marida, her motivations stem from her gratitude to Zimmerman for rescuing her from the brothel; if that really matters, then MSG provides more context for that than anything else does, considering it's an obvious nod to Lalah.
I really like Marida as a character, so it's not even like I'm discounting her. I love what she brings to Unicorn. I do not, however, think her participation as one of the nameless MP Qubeley pilots in ZZ is tremendously important to that, and it genuinely feels like that was just something they tacked on to be able to say "look guys, ZZ gets callbacks in this story too! Kind of!" Even if you watched it and had no idea who the hell Glemy was when his silhouette popped up for a second and a half, it really doesn't have an impact on the story Unicorn is trying to tell, so it doesn't matter much.
All you really need to know about the war in ZZ is that it came and went, and took Haman with it. Beyond that, it has very little to do with the second or third Neo Zeon wars. Again, watch ZZ if you really want to, for its own sake. Don't watch it because you feel like any of it is required viewing for the UC content that follows; it's really not.
Having only seen up to CCA, ZZ is absolutely my favorite Gundam so far and I think it's very telling that the biggest mark against it aside from the initial tone seems to be that it just doesn't offer up any critical *information* for the *plot* of later Gundams, as if the story that it tells on its own isn't enough to make it worth watching.
My piece on that initial tone is pretty much that I think it makes a lot of intuitive sense if you consider who the focus characters are and what the actual situation is, it's right after Zeta, the war situation is over, the Shangri-La arc probably takes place over a few days so I thought it was pretty natural because Axis' big retaliation isn't going to be immediate and the characters it focuses on are a rag-tag group of teens. Like yeah life on Shangri-La isn't easy, but they're still kids who like to fuck around, and I think that if you take things as they come, it clicks into place and serves its role of introducing like 6 new characters into the part right after Zeta ended. Even still, I can understand not caring for it, but I think it's best to try and approach something on its own merits.
Beyond that, I think the absolute most important part of ZZ is the fact that Judau, from start to finish, from beginning to end, lacks the nerve needed to just kill people. In the final few episodes, he helps Chara like 5 times and tries to save even someone like Haman. The show posits numerous times that maybe being desensitized isn't a good thing, that it's losing part of your humanity. When Haman says to Judau that he can stop worrying about death, he responds simply with "I don't want to lose that concern!" and I think it's that simple idea for a simple protagonist that makes it work. His motivation in the latter half, in his own words, is "I'm gonna teach those who love fighting so much a lesson!".
Maybe that's naivete and has no place in war, but war has no place in people's lives. That kind of care that might be considered childish, the total lack of the nerve needed to kill, that's plenty human and plenty real. It may be idealistic to think that things can just work out like that, but that belief, *that's* what's not an anime, it's really real! And it's the youth who will lead towards the future right? It's because concerns that may be considered childish are worth having!
At the same time, the Africa and Dublin arcs of ZZ will never let you forget that things simply won't work out sometimes, that the tragedy of war can't be overcome with pure belief. But that it's always worth caring and always worth trying, no matter how hard it is, to move forward. Towards the future. Once again, it's *that* belief that's not an anime, it's really real!
This belief is directly tied to CCA, because while the youth might lead towards the future, the old, the disillusioned and desensitized won't simply disappear. They'll do anything to escape the gravity of the past, into the future's orbit. That's why CCA doesn't even bring back Kamille in my eyes, because it's focused so much on the now-old, Amuro and Char. Char's ideological basis is pretty much cracked, it's just a thin veneer of "Newtypes are the next stage of evolution!" over pretty revenge and a need for self satisfaction. Whenever he encounter and fights Amuro, it's also accompanied by trying desperately to get him on his side and approve what he does. As if getting the approval of the one chosen by Lalah will just absolve him of everything and justify what he does. Amuro on the other hand still has beliefs, but he feels cold and distant, as if it's actively tough for him to do something other than look over battle plans and tinker with machines. But regardless he *does* believe! He looks forward, towards the light of the future, even if it's something he won't be able to bask in himself.
I think there's something to be said about how, despite the stunning animation, a lot of CCA feels oddly low energy compared to what came before. But I think it only improves the movie as it contrasts so much with the youthful energy that ZZ has throughout, and with the final 10 minutes of CCA itself. When things go to shit, human souls and something that connects them, overcomes Earth's gravity...! Something that's always possible, with a bit of hope, persistence and the desire to work together...
And I think that's where it comes full circle, hope, "naive" concerns, some persistence, and the desire to move forward are always worth having, regardless of it all. And that's something that is genuinely most felt in ZZ and CCA. Even if you don't get any critical *information* for the *plot* of CCA from ZZ, I really think they complement each other quite well.
Sorry for the essay!
Don't be. I found it quite engaging.
I started watching ZZ recently and your analysis feeld really spot on. These early episodes don't feel like meaningless light hearted filler, they feel like a sigh of relief and character building so we can see who these characters are before the horrors of war start to crushthem
Amazingly well written post.
I just finished ZZ yesterday, and I gotta say, it was a breath of fresh air! I think the most jarring part though, was seeing how goofy Mashymere, Chara, and Glemy were initially lol
I'm about to start it after finishing zeta.
The first 10 or so episodes probably caused half it’s potential biggest fans to drop it
Crazy thing is that Chara says pretty silly until the very last battle in the series.
Once she unzips her jacket she becomes a psychopath.
@@Herr_Gamer Which honestly feels really weird to me. Isnt like half the fun and horror of Gundam seeing initially light hearted normal kids get put through the horrors of war. The establishment of those kids in the first 10 or so episodes is crucial to learning about them and the dynamics between them.
I think it's cool that the villains start off as unprepared for war as the protagonists, with Mashymere not just being goofy, but a rather pacifistic Neo-Zeon idealist with eccentric tendencys. At the start of the series, hes geniunely trying to do what he believes is right and by the end he executes a colony drop. Glemy starts off as excited to finally see combat and quickly devolves into seeing how his leaders are assholes and trying to betray them. Chara is just batshit, but we need3d the chaos
I actually loved ZZ more than Zeta. I think it's mainly because I connected with with most of the new main cast from ZZ.
I'm still struggling to make it through ZZ. I can say for me that the VERY weak start to the show has definitely affected my interest in it.
That's a totally valid opinion. Even knowing I was going to finish it for this video there were some episodes early on that made me want to bail. All I can say is that if you decide to stick with it, it DOES get better, it just takes a while to get there.
Honestly, as a young high-schooler who was just learning to navigate the post-napster era of online piracy, the first half of this show was a hard sell to sit through. It wasn't until the early 2000's that I finally manged to really check out the rest of the story. I think it was a mix of my desire to be a completionist, love for the crazy-ass designs, and addiction to the amazing score that got me to realize how awesome the rest of the story is
For sure you should push trough. I honestly believe the late ZZ mecha action is better than Zeta, and Judeau is actually a pretty interesting lead.
Honestly you can skip the first couple chunks of the show.
It starts getting serious around episode 20 then episode 27 is when it gets it's second opening and kicks up the heat. ZZ is good but it's missing one thing that made Zeta felt so powerful at the end of both series.
ZZ is like the DBGT of UC Although I have my issues with it I didn't hate
wow
this is so troo
Perfect analogy
@@ShMarioX No, it’s not. DBGT isn’t plot relevant. ZZ is absolutely necessary.
@@yeetkunedo Another GT hater who believes GT is non-canon. Dont get me started. You're one of those who jumped on the bandwagon of all those who believe what they hear about GT after Super began. Super isnt a replacement of GT. Its considered its prequel. GT was quoted to be just as canon as Super. Toriyama did approve of GT. Just never actually worked on the project. Not once did Toriyama say that GT wasnt canon. Thats the issue with all you people who make claims about GT being a "fan-made" series and that its non-canon. You dont do your homework on it and make straight up assumptions or jump on a bandwagon because someone says this and that. Which is sad because alot of people do that for alot of things in this world. I rest my case, do what you want with what i say here. And as people this era does these days..... ~ drops the mic ~
@@LagunaShirogane
I’m just saying that you can skip from the end of Z to Super and miss nothing. However, you can’t say the same about ZZ Gundam, as there are plot relevant events in ZZ that carry over from Zeta and flow directly into the events of Char’s Counterattack. It’s a bad comparison for that reason alone.
You haven’t dropped any mics. You’ve just proven that you don’t know what grass feels like underfoot.
It’s more like the Rebels of Gundam, I mean Rebels is better, but it has some of the same issues.
I had a lot of issues with pretty much the entire first half of ZZ, it felt so slow compared to 79 and Zeta, and the lighthearted tone felt overdone. I'd be happy with something more lighthearted than Zeta but ZZ felt like too big a change. By the second half of ZZ I was completely invested though, the brief return of kamille was incredibly emotional, the villains were much stronger, and the characters felt so much better than they had been earlier on. One of the characters I did like in later stages of early ZZ was Elpeo Ple, and I was hit real hard by her inevitable fate along with the fate of Ple Two, the similarities to the stories of Four Murasume and Rosamia Badam with the idea of these people who absolutely could and even should be supporting the main cast instead of fighting them was something I found incredible, and by the time of their deaths I genuinely cried for them.
ZZ is genuinely good if people can push their way through the early stages, it has so many things to love and it's a shame that a poorly set up start is the factor keeping many from enjoying the amazing things it does later on.
Yup once you get past the slapstick beginning episodes ZZ gets really really good.
Honestly, ZZ was incredibly refreshing to the absolute, and perhaps unnecessary, brutality that is Zeta. And it treats its characters far better. While I will agree the first several episodes were tough, and the mini-arcs were arguably not needed, they're still somewhat fun to watch and see how all the characters on both sides react to each other. Plus, the comedy was honestly good. Overall, I think this show is unfairly maligned and left me feeling complete wheres Zeta took something from me. Fantastic review!
P.s., Judau is the best protagonist. Non whiney alpha male chad who managed to refuse the wiles and charms of best girl Haman.
Don't forget thanks to the moon moon arc we get the moon Gundam!
I think a large issue of ZZ is trudging through the first set of episodes where all that happens is Fa gets her shit wrecked, Judah tries to steal the Zeta but helps the Argama, then it all goes back to normal until the next day.
yeah, and then it repeats this pattern for the first 10-15 episodes. The hump before Judau joins the Argama crew is a big one to get over.
@@Retcon404 oh God I'm only on episode 7, it keeps going like this???? 😭
@@maxstewart8846 It goes until episode 12.
@@maxstewart8846 it varies for everyone. The rule of thumb is that the first 1/3 of the show can be skipped because it's just nonsense, but the intro speaks volumes. This is not an anime.
ZZ is my favorite gundam series. Glad to see it get some love.
I watched 0079, Z, ZZ, CCA, 0080, 0083 and 08th and I think I love ZZ the most. I am a big fan of Japanese slapstick in anime, so I found the first part very refreshing. I really like Mashymare's attitude in the beginning, I REALLY loved the combination of the Zeta series suits together with the ZZ suits and the three way battle between Haman and her group, Glemmy and his group and the Agamar team. Very great character design and play alround.
I'm glad to see people finally giving ZZ the shake it deserves and feel somewhat vindicated that others consider it "refreshing" as well. ZZ is funny when it needs to be (beginning airing immediately after Zeta) and serious when it needs to be. It's a better Gundam show that people give it credit for, and I'd watch it a dozen more times before rewatching SEED. It also has some of the coolest mobile suits in UC with the Doven Wolf (developed from the Mk. V Gundam and developed into the Silver Bullet and Silver Bullet Suppressor, later piloted by Banagher Links!), the Dwadge, and the criminally-underused upgraded Rick Dias: the Schuzrum Dias. 7.5 or 8/10 show.
Brutal to get through the first half but it levels out and has useful info for CCA and Unicorn and Stardust
I believe ZZ would benefit heavily from a remake. Give it two seasons and rewrite parts of it to make more sense. Reduce the amount of slapstick, fix plot holes, etc
A new animation style would definitly help as well. I feel that, in hindesight, ZZ would've been better had it been made like Stardust had been.
CR just started streaming ZZ today. Good luck getting through the first 5 eps lol. Fun fact: Roux Louka has a very brief cameo in Z/ZZ/CCA character designer Hiroyuki Kitazume's Starlight Angel short in Robot Carnival.
I love ZZ so much. I love the beginning and when shit hits the fan I still like it as much
Even when I was experiencing the tonal whiplash that is that first arc of ZZ, I always loved Mashymere. To me he was like Gundam's version of Don Quixote; A hilarious knight committed to chivalry in an age where it is dead.
An interesting thing to note in the early episodes is that the show is deadly serious when it focuses on the old Zeta characters rather than the new cast.
And one thing that I rather like is that ZZ asks the political questions and gives us context that Zeta lacked. From the imperialism in Africa, to the corruption in the Federation to spacenoids questioning if they're on the wrong side, to the lunarians being confronted about their war profiteering.
I do question Haman's colony drop, it seems needlessly spiteful and strategically backwards. She was recognized by the Federation, given Side 3 and had a large army and a military base. At that point, she had won, just pull back and root out the Glemys in her ranks.
silent voice is catchy lol
It is.
Gundam ZZ is probably one of my favorite Gundam series.
ZZ got so good half way through the show. I will admit, I struggled with the start of it as well, sticking with it mainly cause of the hope it would get better (which it did) and the ZZ was damn cool. Though when I look back at it, I think the commedic first half was actually quite important for character establishment and what would become great character growth and story telling for the second half
I would say ZZ is skippable if you don’t care about plot points or arcs being resolved. I also love that they used Marshmallow turning into a cyber newtype making him competent so that he can be used later in the series. Some hilariously good writing there.
One thing I find is that this show is one of the most anti-military things I’ve seen. The whole command structure of AEUG is what is holding them back and it takes a group of teens with no discipline to actually be effective in the war.
Had absolutely no problem going from Zeta to ZZ. I actually found the storytelling in ZZ to be better - more natural connective tissue vs Zeta's abruptness and shortcuts. Also, watched G Gundam first (which I absolutely love), so felt any accusations of ZZ being too silly are just ridiculous.
Zeta had weird dialogue and never gave its characters time to become and act like real people, while ZZ goes back to establishing characters fully more like in MSG 79
Zz gundam also had major early production issues. The core being sponsors thought the show too dark and not kid friendly enough.
So think of the first 12 episodes as, see everything is fine. This is lile scooby doo with robots. ......... are they gone. ....... BRING ON THE VIOLENCE!
Silent voice is the best way to start a ZZ video
Agreed, it was worth the content ID claim lol
facts
personally IMO first if i remember right the first 1/3, is a bit of a slog too get through. Mainly cause i understand why they are trying to get some of that campiness back that Zeta pretty much lacked cause well (SPOILERS)
Zeta kinda ended pretty bittersweet for are heroes and in ZZ we are seeing the aftermath of all that. But i think ones we get past the halfway mark the show starts too really get good especially when Judau finally got the Double ZZ the plot slowly start to get serious.
My personal favorite UC series, as Zeta was too serious for it's own good, and once ZZ got serious in the second half, it still had a bit of comedy to go with it.
Garrod Ran from X is my favorite Gundam pilot ever, but Judau is damn close.
ZZ is honestly my favorite UC show, it kept me consistently engaged and the characters had good motivations
I'll never understand the dislike for ZZ when alot of the first half are loved things done in future gundam series like Mr simp man is literally proto immortal Patrick from gundam 00 from a recurring gag character who has a hard on for his superior constantly get knocked around
The Openings for this anime are cool,I wish they dub this anime with ocean group,funimation or bang zoom in the 90s or early 2000s when Gundam was in its prime here in America.
HOW CAN YOU USE METROID PRIME 3 MUSIC WITHOUT CREDITING IT?!
I feel like Z was a better story, but the Gundam designs felt a bit more like a retread of the original show and the "grips" looks like a uh....well, it looks like it might be "ribbed for his pleasure". 👀
the ending conflict in ZZ has got to be the best display of straight Newtype power i've seen yet in Gundam in a mass conflict.
I blew through Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam in a matter of like 3 weeks. Double Zeta it took me about a month-and-a-half. The main issue being subbing, I tend to do other activities like cooking or what not when I'm watching these shows and that was impossible because there is no dub okay so basically I watched it right before bed each night and used it as a way to fall asleep. I really like the whole series. Especially picks up around episode 23. I was able to kill the second half of the series in about a week and a half. Just finished Char's Counterattack this morning. Onward to unicorn Gundam. Definitely think Zeta Gundam is a superior Series in general, but to me they sort of blend together as one whole series
This show was such a breath of fresh air and got me back into UC after Zeta had my interest teetering. Zeta handled the writing, characters and 'darkness' so poorly it came back around to being silly but ZZ allows it self to be silly on purpose and ends up with better, more realistic characters and situations.
Not gonna lie, at first I hated ZZ cuz I went straight to it from Z and got massive whiplash (also instantly hated Judau and his crew cuz they got one of the surviving argama crew killed, in my eyes)
I softened up on it and tried to watch it again later... but then it turns out I just absolutely hate beecha's guts, and having him inherit one of my favorite suits from Z just annoyed the shit out of me.
Honestly yeah that's a fair view on Beecha, he got off really easy
I found this series very odd and it's defenders to be quite strange. I think the reason so many people skip it is because you can. And that's not good for something that's supposed to be essential viewing.
Boy, you said it.
But it is essential viewing.
Please show me where the events of ZZ are essential for viewing the rest of the franchise which isnt fully fleshed out yet. as i mentioned so many people skip this series for various reasons. (too long, tone, no dub, boredom, etc.) was it the various suits we saw in unicorn who dont get a name? is it the clone girl who has her backstory explained much more maturely in unicorn? is it the cameo in crossbone that serves no actual impact on his character? you might have an argument for the founding of londo bell. but londo bell was founded to right the wrongs of the titans. not just fight zeon remnants.
I agree, it’s just like how you can skip Return of the Jedi.
@@thomasffrench3639 nice bait.
I think it's possible to like ZZ now, because we know that it was something of an oddball one-off. We can appreciate it now for what it was.
I was talking to an older guy, who watched it as a kid while it was airing. Anime was going through major changes, and people were really unhappy that it felt like Gundam was going to just turn into one of those new teen shows that some "real robot" people really hated. "Anime Janai" seemed like it was making fun of the fans, and it seemed like the whole Gundam franchise was being disrespected somehow.
Well, in hindsight, none of that came to happen (or did it?) and I think we can all appreciate the show for what it is, instead of what people feared it would become.
What’s crazy is that Zeta and ZZ released back to back
The midway of ZZ when they start getting dark and grim was so abrupt and I found myself laughing hysterically. It'd be like Team Rocket suddenly being killed during Pokemon. Overall I liked it and was glad I watched it. Its Sentai like atmosphere was dumb fun.
Hahah, that's how I felt about Jerid. He was basically the Team Rocket of Zeta
i don't know if I like ZZ but it's a fascinating show. the Africa arc alone honestly makes it worth a watch, since it's essentially ten straight episodes demonstrating why Char's Dakar speech in Zeta was completely insane, something that Zeta never really grappled with. not to mention that the mini-arc in Ireland where Kamille and Fa return, capped off by the absolutely terrifying colony drop, is Gundam firing on all cylinders. it legitimately has some of my favourite stories and moments in the Universal Century, but they're mired in inconsequential episodes, annoying characters, and an overall story that is transparently being made up as the creators go due to CCA's production interfering with their plans for the second half. it's a slog and while I haven't seen the rest of the UC, my understanding is that nothing in ZZ is plot critical, but i think the combination of the show's handful of incredible moments and its extension of some of the themes and ideas Zeta never fully resolved make it worth a watch.
I can't wait if/till you cover victory Gundam based on your opinions
I've heard a bit about Victory Gundam and I've decided to go into that one without knowing any spoilers, so im interested to see what I'll think as well!
@@Retcon404 ,😀
Gundam has too much dialogue to not be translated. I cant stand trying to watch this. I want to look at what's happening not keep my eyes peeled and read as fast as I can.
zz gundam can easly be fix if it had a trilogy movie, they can just toned down the first part from
ep 1 - 11 when the ZZ gundbam shows up and continue on ep 18 onward where the dark stuff happens. the religious part moon colony can be switch up.
Just finished ZZ, i liked the characters in ZZ more than in Zeta, but I don’t know if I like the overall story for ZZ. It was worth the watch, so I’m glad I didn’t skip it.
Watching ZZ all I can hear is "Silent Voice" but for real tho although I thought it started draggy, it's more important than some viewers given credit for seeing that some of these events played into Char's motivation in Char's Counterattack and its a great contrast from the silly carefree first half and the more serious darker second half turned out to be good overall
Edit: If u guys want to know more about Lady Hamans backstory check out C.D.A(chars deleted affair)manga
I've seen nearly every Gundam now and ZZ is my favourite. I didn't find the start too sloggy as some of the delightedly non-woke dialogue made me chuckle. I didn't mind Moon Moon either as that colony and Shangri-La itself do a good bit of expanded world-building, most of the colonies depicted in the various series are interchangeable. And the when Judau's SPOILER gets SPOILERED and the series gets more serious it really jars you as you've gotten into the light-hearted vibe. The development of Noa's character is really well done too.
ZZ was fucking great. I might get a full SRW if there's a "Save ALL the Purus" mission with Judau and the captain from Unicorn
There is a gundam evolve short about Judau trying to recuse a puru clone so we at least got something there.
I just watched ZZ recently. It has its flaws but overall it was decent. But what I don't like the most from this series is the decisions/actions that were made by the the characters.
there were a lot of stupid/reckless/dangerous/irresponsible/irrational decisions that can lead to a total disaster.
they made decisions as if they know that they are fictional characters that has a plot armor and they will success no matter how reckless they are.. But still it is a decent series IMO
You would think that someone would install a lock on the Mobile Suits after the 53rd time they are stolen.
@@Retcon404 LOL Yep yep, I wish They would 🤣🤣
Glad that you enjoyed ZZ so much, it's one of my favorites. I think the Dublin Arc is the best arc of the original 3 UC shows! Also really excited to see what your thoughts on Victory Gundam are, since that one is incredibly divisive as well (I enjoy it a lot despite its many faults).
I would say ZZ is only the black sheep since it went so far away from how the first two are. Although I gotta say it does darken it's tone up some later on.
I still preffers ZZ over Z. I hated Camille with every piece of my black soul. ZZ starts weird but after the first half it gets awesome.
Based ZZ PILLED
"Double Zeta" is my kind of fever dream. It feels like fan service to those who liked "Zeta Gundam".
Can you give me an example of "adults slapping the shit out of people for not being good enough at killing"? Are you referencing Bright slapping Amuro? Or Chamille getting beat up by the moneyman behind AEUG or slapped by Emma Sheen in Zeta? You DO know both Amuro and Chamille were acting like petulant selfish children that put people's lives at risk for thinking they didn't have to follow orders and could do whatever they wanted. Amuro took it even further after being disciplined and stole the Gundam, and put the entire V project in dire straights DEEP behind enemy lines and almost got the Gundam destroyed. They are the most integral part of their military operation, they put lives at risk and needed to grow up quick. Both were SUPER talented. NOT ONCE did either come back from a mission and get slapped because they "didn't kill good enough" I need receipts because I know your statement just isn't the truth.
man, i say everything half jokingly. Don't take the one off lines too seriously lol.
Well yeah, they are children.
ZZ is certainly a lesser show than most UC Gundams, but one would certainly miss out a lot by skipping it. In fact, the Unicorn production team actually say that they started the project as they saw the history gap that could be filled between ZZ and CCA (namely the Ple sisters and more importantly the plot of the missing Mineva).
ZZ was a mistake.
I'd still simp for Haman Karn
A man of culture
ZZ is my 2nd favorite after Gundam Wing
Look, even if you like ZZ, this video really does underplay the bad in ZZ and prop up the good far too much espically with comments like "The most Gundam to ever Gundam". ZZ towards the end did have the dumb comedy episodes, no one mentions this but they clearly needed to fill in time and then had more comedy episodes, so to say its "all the first half" which is like the first 20 episodes is very disingenuous. Second people underrate how much more damage then good they do to Haman Karns character.
Haman Karn in Zeta is the saviour of the show, she's to this day the best written female character, not just antagonist, character in Gundam and its not very close imo. Zeta when it goes back to space is kind of just turning it wheels and she enters that show and injects so much life back to it. She's the girl that gets the normally stoic and calm Pillar Char and has him loose his mind, its such a strong introduction. What happens to Haman in ZZ? 1 she looks like an idiot surrounding her self with the clowns that she does, 2 has this romance with Judua which makes 0 sense. Like tell me 1 way Judua is like Char outside of being nice and determined. Like that relationship is soely down because Tomino wanted the female antagonist to have a romance with the protag. The whole fight with Haman and Kamille is about "she's able to reject the new type connection" so they do this dumb "his aura is Char" crap and its TERRIBLE. And makes her look like a pervert. Also why did she keep the same Robot that she did in Zeta? Did she not want to upgrade? This is the bastion of great writing so many people point to and I'd argue they almost ruin her completely.
The Main cast outside of like maybe Judah are terrible, the worst. Are we going to sit here and stan for Glemmy? Or Beecha? No one should ever have trusted Beecha and he gets all the lee way for no reason, or how about the forced nothing romance Bright has, we can go down the list of things in this series that are terrible. Who else do we have? Like the one blonde girl I GUESS? Like everyone else is just unwatchably boring or terrible cast wise. The gundam team also just feels so tacky and not UC Gundam like at all. What from pre like G Gundam makes the Gundam team "Gundam like"
To sit here and say "Gundam ZZ is the most Gundam Gundam has ever Gundam" and ignore Zeta, CCA, War in the Pocket, Victory, hell G Gundam is more Gundam than ZZ. How "gundam" can a series be if you straight up have to forget the first entire half of the series, then second, somehow have to glue together the MESS of a plot. It has good but people just wash away everything else for maybe 5-10 pretty good episodes out of 45. It doesn't fit the series at all.
ZZ is entirely skippable, thats not even "I don't like it skip it" the Zeta movie rewrote the ending of Zeta and did not care about anyone questioning ZZ, don't take my word for it alone, if actions speak louder than words than Sunrise might agree with me that "Most gundam series to ever gundam" isn't that Gundam, important, or good
Wow
This would all probably mean something, if the New Translation films didn’t suck ass
Ok I’m lying there. The New Translations really aren’t that bad, but they really didn’t work as alternate takes for Zeta Gundam. But that doesn’t mean they’re bad. Heck allot of scenes in the New Translation films I thought were actually handled better than in the original, like Hanna’s introduction, and the new animation for the films is just beautiful.
The issue Is that the films lack any of the interactions that made the show so good, which made the ending of the final film feel unearned, and it’s why I feel ZZ ending for Kamil is allot better, because we actually did have that time and characterization to get to know him and his struggles, which makes his ending in ZZ all the more satisfying. And I understand why the New Translation films have a happy ending, since Tomino wasn’t in a good place during Zeta Gundam’s production, hence why his shows were so grim and dark. That’s kinda why ZZ Gundam stands out for me, and I’d honestly rather watch it over the other UC Gundam shows.
Also, just because the New Translation films have a new ending, that doesn’t automatically mean they’re now canon to the UC Timeline, since that would mean erasing Char’s Counterattack and Unicorn from the timeline. And besides, Unicorn includes several nods to ZZ, like the Puru clone in that show. So like it or not, ZZ Zeta is vital to the UC timeline and is required viewing no matter which way you slice it.
Anyways, getting back to what I said about the ending. Sure it’s a new ending, but that doesn’t mean it’s canon. There have been several compilation films to anime that have had new endings, but still aren’t considered canon since most sequels to the shows don’t follow up on those endings. Like Madoka Magica Rebellion for example. The film takes place after the events of the TV show, not the movies. So while it’s considered the 4th movie of the the film series, it’s actually a sequel to the TV series. And yeah, there was also the Code Geas compilation films, and Lelouch of the Resurrection which is set in the film continuity since Shirley is still alive in those movies, but at the end of the day, they’re not canon to the Code Geass tv series, just the movies. The New Translation films don’t automatically erase ZZ from existence, they just made a new ending. That’s it. So you can’t skip ZZ even if you tried.
Edit from a few weeks later: I said it before and I’ll say it again, just because the New Translation films rewrote Zeta’s ending, that doesn’t mean they’re canon. Also “did not care about anyone questioning ZZ”?…… oh ok, guess while they’re at it they can erase Char’s Counterattack, Victory, and Unicorn from the timeline as well, despite, you know, Unicorn having several plot points from ZZ like the Puru clones. By this logic THOSE are no longer canon. And even if that was the case, why is Sunrise still including the ZZ characters in stuff like novels, audio dramas, video games, and manga? And that’s not even touching on the ZZ casts inclusion in stuff like SRW. If Sunrise really did not care for ZZ as you say, why aren’t they afraid to still talk about it as well as put the characters in so much spin off material YEARS after the show finished airing? Heck, most of them even coming AFTER the New Translation films.
IMO, ZZ is more in line for people who want to drive in UC Gundam much deeper. I think of it as "Standalone" Story that kinda have link to previous one but not strong link to further installments.
In term of "Is it Skippable?", I would say yesish. because it have fragments lore to many after it but at the same time those fragment is in The Half later of series. You can just play SD Gundam and get premise of series and that's it. It not like MSG > MSG Z necessaries. or CCA > Hathaway. You can pick what episodes that matter and skip other for sake of some lore continuity.
I think people become zealous about it too much and look at as "must watch" more than it should be. It's a interesting installment of UC Gundam. but It not a important pieces to watch if you don't want to.
What the hell with you ? No one here claim zz is the best lap lap except you, wth is this non sense wall of text ? From the time zz ms get introduce and when his sister die, everything begin to turn dark and darker, more serious through time. Also ZZ ms is one of the strongest ms in uc with unique weapon like hyber beam saber, mega cannon, a bunch of rocket and a double beam rifle strong like a beam magnum destroying enemy without hit. The fight in late zz is also get better and better. The sick of kamille, the judas emotion about his sister. All that are unique and the 1st anime that lead the story of main char in last series into next outside of amuro and char. It also write the story for kastriya pilot in uc, and more sad story about cyber newtype
No ZZ is “I don’t like it skip it” if I’ve ever saw one. The Neo Zeon War has much more impact on the UC than the Gryps conflict did. It resolves character arcs and plot points that were introduced in Zeta. You could argue that it makes more sense to skip from MSG to CCA than it does Zeta to CCA.
Ah ZZ. Just finished it today. While it was a very rocky start, I did enjoy it overall. I think the series gets much better once they leave Shangri-la. Even so, it's hard to ignore things that seem like straight up bad writing, a lot of it stemming from Bright seemingly being far more lenient than he should, though after what happened in the final episodes of Zeta, I wouldn't blame him. (Seriously, a ton of problems in ZZ could've been solved by locking people up more tightly, like Chara and Puru). Overall, worth watching and I've heard that Unicorn can be very confusing if you don't.
Spoilers for the rest of ZZ:
I think one of my favourite scenes in the final episode was Fa and Kamille playing on the beach. Kamille is one of my favourite characters in Gundam so far and it's nice to see him get a happy ending.
I don't know where to find it, but there's a joke theory on 4chan that Chara is Char in disguise lol.
The broken record that I am, chimes in here to say, absolutely amazing video, loved that you went back to doing some IRL video bits. Watching you grow is ALMOST as good as watching your videos!
I enjoyed it, but my biggest complaint is
SPOILERS
How Puru and Puru 2’s end was handled
Thank you for sharing different and deeper perspectives of Gundam ZZ. When I followed gundam ZZ, it was different from the serious atmosphere Zeta and original Gundam and quite "childish and fun" atmosphere in the early episodes in Gundam ZZ. It was somewhere difficult for me to follow. However, from your perspective, I decide to re-visit Gundam ZZ and have an open mind to explore the uniqueness of Gundam ZZ. Thank you.
Like you stated in this video the reason why Char and Amuro wasn't mention or seen in this series because at the time the creator was going to save them both for the Char's Counterattack movie to continue their final story. To me Gundam ZZ is like the Spaceballs of the Gundam UC timeline with the slapstick comedy. No thank you to this series I just have to skip it and go straight Char's Counterattack movie after Zeta Gundam. I definitely like my Gundam series especially the UC stories to be dark, gritty and a grounded military drama.... How come you had a spoiler warning at the beginning of this video and haven't spoil anything😂 lol.
ZZ is like a bunch of kids playing at a construction site. It's fun and laughs for a good chunk of the start, but then eventually one of the kids' little sister falls off a beam and lands on her head, then the rest of the day is just the kids desperately trying to find out what to do with the unconscious meatbag that was laughing a few seconds ago.
Also, we do know one thing about ZZ
*This is no anime!*
The first half of ZZ was pretty bad but in a so bad it's good kind of way, the amount of times I face palmed and shook my head can't be can't be counted lol, although when Haman finally comes into the series it actually picks itself up and becomes really good. Gundam ZZ is a good series you just need to dig through the rough beginning episodes to get to the great half.
I remember watching Double ZZ and being bored out of my mind, they would NOT leave the setting of the first area until like the 12th episode or something?? (its because of this reason that i stopped watching afterwards, i was to jaded by then lol)
In contrast beauty, zeta showed, and had events happening on: the moon, the colonies, the earth, space, deep space,...just so many different vistas all in the first few episodes.
Yeah I think its episode 10 when they finally get out of Side 1. I think ZZ takes the longest time to get to earth out of the original UC shows as well.
Did you ever go back and finish watching?
I have been loving your Gundam deep dives. Especially zeta and zz. I haven't watched either but I feel like you gave a good analysis without spoiling much. Minor critique: I noticed you repeat some lines in some of your videos like the antagonist getting vaporized.
Glemy Toto did something that Papi Shirtco never managed to do, which was make me hate the character and not the person writing him. Glemy is so skeevy and uncomfortable to watch but hes not unrealistic at all. There are people like Glemy, some in positions of power, so he doesnt feel off. I want him to die, but its because of his actions and how gross of a person he is. Compared to Scirocco who is apparently so charismatic he can get women to commit mass murder for him by looking at them once, which makes sense for Sarah, I guess maybe? I only wanted Scirocco dead because like the rest of Zeta's antagonists (except Haman) he was draining and annoying to watch. Hes like as goofy as Marshmallow my beloved but taken completely serious and is the final villain of the show.
Yeah, I just finished it, and I do think it was pretty good. It took a bit for it to figure itself out, I really didn't like seeing Fa getting beat up by Mashymire, but aside from that and some stuff with Chara I liked it.
I really liked Mashymre because yes he’s goofy but I think he represents his own kind of very gundam tragedy in that he wishes to be a honorable warrior, a knight serving his lady, in a war with no place for the that kind of soldier
How many kids signed up for zeon with images of gallant char in their minds only to meet the grim reality of war
Years ago everyone I know actively hated ZZ and would tell people to stay away from it. Recently some of those same people praise it and say it's a must watch.
I haven't watched this series so I don't know for sure but I looked him up and it says on the Wiki that his name is Mashymre Cello, not Marshmallow.
“Its very anime”
… Its not anime, its real
anime.... Ja Nai!
Double Zeta was hi-fucking-larious💀💀💀💀
I had to force myself to sit through ZZ, and I've never really been comfortable with the idea that it's _just_ because of the slapstick. Having watched this video, I think I've finally put my finger on why: first and foremost, it's the glib apathy of the show that I find grating. All factions are different shades of bad, as always in Gundam, but this time the show's protagonists revel in the denial of any cause greater than themselves. Nothing's Judau's problem unless you make it personal to him, and that just doesn't sit right with me.
Unicorn is even worse with the both-sides-ism, but at least has Mineva to provide a sense of moral guidance.
Ehhh, while Zeon was originally always determined to be the more evil-ish, 0079 already showed the grey morality of all sides. Zeta heavily leaned into how both sides have develish corrupt elements, and later series just further explored the seed sown already in 0079. And that is for me a key halmark of Gundam. Sure there are people around there that are almost comically evil (Gihren, potentially Kycillia) they are also surrounded by people that have more relatable (although selfish) motivations like Degwin, Garma and even almost noble but deceived or real-politic motivations like Dozzle and Ramba Ral. Char shot civilians fleeing White Base without any regret, cause that is war, persued some vanity project that later on could be interpreted to be part of his attempts to get closer to the Zabi family OR just trying to life a satisfying life as a Zeon officer.
Unicorn went deeper (and while I am not a fan of time traffling mobile suits, it might just as much be an illusion) it kind of embraces that just like real life people, anime character could just be talking out of their arse. And that is my headcannon: Full Frontal is not a noble char clone, he's just a misguided laboratory experiment that believes this crap, and goes mental and doesn't even register the inconsistent bullcrap he is spouting. And while confusing for a viewer, that is not unrealistic.
@@Tuning3434 To my mind, the best (or least bad) part of ZZ is the Dublin arc, where we see more of the Federation's seedy underbelly. Showing the different factions in all their complexity, from their most noble to their most venal is what makes UC Gundam great.
Really, where it doesn't sit right with me is when the show crosses the line into equivocation, which is what Unicorn does until the very end. It's not that both sides are full of it, of course they are, it's that Banana is a very special boy given a very special Gundam, and all he does is sit on his high horse (pardon the pun) passing judgment. Mineva is the one whose moral conscience compels her to act. All Banana does is give speeches.
Still better than Judau and his friends. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Double Zeta is actually Tomino's bleakest work. The entire anime has the main characters acting out variations of "fuck you, got mine". No one in Judau's group ever acknowledges anything greater than themselves. They are pure, venal selfishness and I believe that's Tomino's idea of holding up a mirror to the audience.
ZZ has the same problem as dragonball GT. Tried too hard to go back to some of the earlier elements at first, then has to backpedal hard in the back half.
After seeing Kamille in that state "Look at how the massacred my boy"
Say what you want about the moon moon arch but it leads to the Moon Gundam and low key it might be my favorite other than the Nu Gundam
Loved ZZ when it first aired in 1986, love it even more in 2022. Thanks for the balanced overview of this underappreciated series.
ZZ holds up so so beyond well, for me 🤗
Shout out to you for using the Digital Devil Saga OST ❤️🔥
ZZ is never to be skipped. there is so much with the first neo zeon war that is needed to understand to watch things like Unicorn and Chars CounterAttack. Yes Zaku 3 is bangin I agree. I'm more a fan of the Dom like suits in that series.
Zz makes you understand chars counter attack and its really good, not better than z but i loved it
My god, in Brazil doesn't have so much videos about Gundam, but I'm lucky to find it because I have just finished Gundam, Z Gundam and Gundam ZZ, and my god, I must hear a opinion about ZZ because it was really strange in the beginning, the end is good but whatta hell they did think when they wrote this show????
Double Zeta Gundam is like my favourite model. I love that twin gun
Personally, I found that the series starts to pick up after the Argama leaves Shangri-La. Those first ten or so episodes, while a much-needed breather after Tomino’s infamous “kill ‘em all” tendencies resurfaced at the end of Zeta, didn’t do much to move story forward. I did, however, like the characters enough that I was willing to keep going and sure enough, once Leina gets captured, giving Judau a personal stake in the conflict, the plot finally gets moving and moving fast.
And this is all BEFORE you hit the OP change. That’s the point where ZZ gets REALLY good.
Judau Ashta:"The story of My life!"
"SUUUUPEEEEER!!!!!!"😆👍
Kio Asuno:"Intellectual copyright please!"🤦♂️
Gotta say I don't see the hate this was way more up my alley. Wish it would get a full dub